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SOXit2EM
11-23-2005, 03:08 PM
Just reported on Espnnews by Buster Olney. Not sure if it's official though

junkyarddoug
11-23-2005, 03:10 PM
I just heard that also. It sounds like the only issue is how much salary the Phillies will eat on Thome's contract.

MushMouth
11-23-2005, 03:10 PM
Wow if true. I just hope Thome's elbow is completely healed. If so, it could be a great trade. If not, could be a stinker.

No mention of other players/considerations/salary-eating?

hawkjt
11-23-2005, 03:10 PM
Just heard Buster Olney say on ESPN radio that the sox and phils have completed the trade of Rowand for Thome. No other names. Straight up? I have to trust that Kenny has done the due diligence on Thomes health. Olney speculated that the Phils pick up significant part of Thomes salary. He also says that this is unrelated to Paulie. So if we re-sign Paul I guess Frank would be gone. Not sure I am on board for this trade but I do trust Kenny.

CHIsoxNation
11-23-2005, 03:11 PM
Just heard Buster Olney say on ESPN radio that the sox and phils have completed the trade of Rowand for Thome. No other names. Straight up? I have to trust that Kenny has done the due diligence on Thomes health. Olney speculated that the Phils pick up significant part of Thomes salary. He also says that this is unrelated to Paulie. So if we re-sign Paul I guess Frank would be gone. Not sure I am on board for this trade but I do trust Kenny.

Straight up? And if they take on a lot of the contract then this is a great deal.

soltrain21
11-23-2005, 03:12 PM
Just heard Buster Olney say on ESPN radio that the sox and phils have completed the trade of Rowand for Thome. No other names. Straight up? I have to trust that Kenny has done the due diligence on Thomes health. Olney speculated that the Phils pick up significant part of Thomes salary. He also says that this is unrelated to Paulie. So if we re-sign Paul I guess Frank would be gone. Not sure I am on board for this trade but I do trust Kenny.


Thome and Paulie in the same lineup? booyah.

patbooyah
11-23-2005, 03:14 PM
Thome and Paulie in the same lineup? booyah.

you rang?

Tekijawa
11-23-2005, 03:15 PM
Did you hear that? That was the sound of the last 10 remaining season tickets being sold.

soltrain21
11-23-2005, 03:15 PM
you rang?


Yes, how are you?! :D:

miker
11-23-2005, 03:16 PM
Is Thome really a grinder...other than the sounds coming from his often-injured body?

CaptainBallz
11-23-2005, 03:17 PM
True: This is fantastic
False: Then it's not fantastic.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 03:17 PM
I hate this deal. You get an aging slugger for a guy who has probably 7-8 good to great years left. Not to mention a guy who is a fan favorite and bleeds black and white (and blue/orange no less). Unless Juan Pierre is around the corner, I vote:

:chunks

or, as otherwise, known, the overly used chunks tag, appropriately used.

What the hell happened to "grinder ball?"

patbooyah
11-23-2005, 03:17 PM
Yes, how are you?! :D:

i'm great. yourself?

CHIsoxNation
11-23-2005, 03:17 PM
Is this for real done? I don't want to get my hopes up yet if this is still speculation.

Mr. White Sox
11-23-2005, 03:18 PM
Is Thome really a grinder...other than the sounds coming from his often-injured body?

holy crap, who cares if he is a "grinder"? As long as he's healthy, this is an awesome, awesome trade for the White Sox. You're giving up a guy in Rowand that's basically holding up the OF logjam for the Sox -- AND HE'S NOT AS GOOD DEFENSIVELY AS ANDERSON -- and getting a power hitting LH bat...THE BIGGEST NEED FOR THE SOX THIS OFFSEASON.

:supernana:

WCCMIKE
11-23-2005, 03:18 PM
Why is everyone so excited this isn't 1999 so we are not getting the same Thome the indians had.To be honest i would rather have Crazy Carl then Thome

Tekijawa
11-23-2005, 03:18 PM
...other than the sounds coming from his often-injured body?

We've already dispelled the Oft injured myth, narrowed that down to 1 year... The only people getting injurred this year will be people like me who have season tickets in the outfield trying to dodge Home Run Balls.

soltrain21
11-23-2005, 03:19 PM
What the hell happened to "grinder ball?"


Do you want our number 3 and 4 hitters to not hit for power? We need a couple of a bats that can hit one over the wall.

duke of dorwood
11-23-2005, 03:20 PM
Its up to Paulie now-it would be great to see them together-not a lot of first to third opportunities there. If true I am gonna hate to see A Wall go

WCCMIKE
11-23-2005, 03:20 PM
Will see how excited everyone is when Thome goes down the first week of april

Chrisaway
11-23-2005, 03:21 PM
does this mean Pods moves to CF? Does Anderson take left field now? I dunno guys Its nice to see Thome in a Sox uni but this raises qome questions.

Tekijawa
11-23-2005, 03:21 PM
I hate this deal. You get an aging slugger for a guy who has probably 7-8 good to great years left. Not to mention a guy who is a fan favorite and bleeds black and white (and blue/orange no less). Unless Juan Pierre is around the corner,

You also Added 40+ HR to your line up and 100+ RBI... All Brian Anderson will have to do next year is catch the ball and Bat 200 with 30 RBI and I'll be happy. I think even Borchard would be capable of that!

MushMouth
11-23-2005, 03:21 PM
Why is everyone so excited this isn't 1999 so we are not getting the same Thome the indians had.To be honest i would rather have Crazy Carl then Thome


Other than last year w/ the elbow problem, Thome has put up incredible power numbers.

49, 52, 47, 42 hrs leading into last year's injury.

spiffie
11-23-2005, 03:21 PM
Sources have told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney that the Phillies are on the verge of trading first baseman Jim Thome to the White Sox for center fielder Aaron Rowand. The deal is expected to include major cash considerations due to the size of Thome's contract.

I like the sound of "Major cash considerations".

SOXit2EM
11-23-2005, 03:23 PM
I hate this deal. You get an aging slugger for a guy who has probably 7-8 good to great years left. Not to mention a guy who is a fan favorite and bleeds black and white (and blue/orange no less). Unless Juan Pierre is around the corner, I vote:

:chunks

or, as otherwise, known, the overly used chunks tag, appropriately used.

What the hell happened to "grinder ball?"I have a feeling B. Anderson will be roaming center next year......... I like this deal....ALOT

johnny_mostil
11-23-2005, 03:24 PM
You also Added 40+ HR to your line up and 100+ RBI... All Brian Anderson will have to do next year is catch the ball and Bat 200 with 30 RBI and I'll be happy. I think even Borchard would be capable of that!

The real winner is Chris Young, who will take over CF in 2007 and push Anderson to right to replace Dye.

SouthSoxFan
11-23-2005, 03:24 PM
Anyone think the Phils may try to move Rowand to New York for pitching?

johnny_mostil
11-23-2005, 03:25 PM
I like the sound of "Major cash considerations".

Given that Thome pretty much said he would only waive his no-trade clause for the White Sox and the Indians, and given the Indians can't use him at DH, this was a hijacking.

WCCMIKE
11-23-2005, 03:26 PM
I like the sound of "Major cash considerations".Me to maybe that means kenny will bring another washed up player back like Alomar:D:

Madvora
11-23-2005, 03:26 PM
Thome replacing Everett is great.

Rowand to be replaced by Anderson (maybe.) We'll see about that. I'm not too disappointed though because Rowand didn't really follow up his offensive performance of 2004. If it just came down to Anderson out there, rather than someone else, that's fine. I would like to give the guy a shot.

As soon as Rowand makes a return appearance to Comiskey, he will be sure to recieve a standing O. I'm sure he will every trip back to Chicago.

The Wimperoo
11-23-2005, 03:26 PM
I love this deal as long as Anderson is taking over in CF and they don't waste their time on Pierre.

Whitesox4ever
11-23-2005, 03:27 PM
I think KW next move will be getting Juan Pierre. We will have an an awesome lineup

Pods LF
Pierre CF??
Thome DH
Konerko 1B??
Dye RF
AJ C
Iguchi 2B
Crede 3B
Uribe SS

johnny_mostil
11-23-2005, 03:27 PM
Anyone think the Phils may try to move Rowand to New York for pitching?

What pitching?

tadscout
11-23-2005, 03:27 PM
I have a feeling B. Anderson will be roaming center next year......... I like this deal....ALOT

I do too! :bandance: and remember, in :worship:Kenny we trust!

The deal is on ESPN's MLB page now too...

MadetoOrta
11-23-2005, 03:28 PM
Straight up? Wow. I like the thought of Thome up in a crucial spot AT THE JAKE. That'll drive the Tribe fans nuts. I forgot how *&$# solid Thome was until Randar laid out the numbers. A healthy Thome is far more productive than even Konerko.

Baby Fisk
11-23-2005, 03:28 PM
The best part of this deal: it does not include the names McCarthy or Contreras. :thumbsup:

nodiggity59
11-23-2005, 03:28 PM
What pitching?

They'd be interested in Pavano and Wright at super reduced prices. They'd take Chacon straight up. Of course the Yanks wouldn't offer Wang.

Baby Fisk
11-23-2005, 03:30 PM
Will see how excited everyone is when Thome goes down the first week of april
Haha. I was just wondering what happened to Hangar...

:darkclouds:

beckett21
11-23-2005, 03:31 PM
I hate to see Aaron go, he really grew on me the past two years. Thanks for the hard work and the memories! :cool:

That said, as much as I like Rowand as a player this is a deal that had to be made with the surplus of OF talent in the system. Assuming there are no other players involved this is a great deal for the Sox IMO. Puts them in a good position to continue to compete for World Series titles for the next few years. Re-sign Konerko, that will be one scary lineup.

Looks like KW is making good on his commitment to winning. :gulp:

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 03:31 PM
I love the way Aaron Rowand plays and I'm sorry to see him go. But, this is a great deal for us. A healthy Jim Thome (and we have no reason to believe he isn't healthy at this time) is the best hitter in our lineup. :thumbsup:

DSpivack
11-23-2005, 03:31 PM
straight up for aaron rowand plus they give "major cash considerations"? as long as he is healthy and plays like he did in 2004, this is a steal.

the biggest downside is that how will Frank come back?

Re-sign Paulie and look at our offense:

1. Podsednik
2. Anderson
3. Thome
4. Konerko
5. Dye
6. Iguchi
7. Pierzynski
8. Crede
9. Uribe

spiffie
11-23-2005, 03:31 PM
I think KW next move will be getting Juan Pierre. We will have an an awesome lineup

Pods LF
Pierre CF??
Thome DH
Konerko 1B??
Dye RF
AJ C
Iguchi 2B
Crede 3B
Uribe SS

Upon seeing that lineup I just pooped a hammer.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 03:31 PM
I cannot believe the positive reaction here. Let's review:

We suffer for several years (oh, like, 10) under the "let's get one more big bat" model. Does Albert Belle ring any belles?

We finally orient the team around affordable, "grinder" fielders combined with top-flight pitching, and WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

Suddenly, we need to trade for a guy who is 10 years older, a strikeout machine, on his last legs (literally), and eats up a ton of salary, all while losing a (less expensive) player who epitomizes the philosophy that WON US THE WORLD SERIES?



Who's next?

:shammy?

CLR01
11-23-2005, 03:31 PM
Me to maybe that means kenny will bring another washed up player back like Alomar:D:


Are you trying to get a vacation for trolling?

Paulwny
11-23-2005, 03:32 PM
The best part of this deal: it does not include the names McCarthy or Contreras. :thumbsup:

Agree, I never expected this deal without giving up a pitcher. KW cleaned up on this one.

Madvora
11-23-2005, 03:32 PM
I like the thought of Thome up in a crucial spot AT THE JAKE. That'll drive the Tribe fans nuts.
Great point. We'll take every past AL Central nemesis

1. AJ Pierzynski
2. Jim Thome
3. Joe Randa

knocko94
11-23-2005, 03:32 PM
This means Big Frank's chances of returning are Shrinking

MadetoOrta
11-23-2005, 03:32 PM
The best part of this deal: it does not include the names McCarthy or Contreras. :thumbsup:

Amen!

DSpivack
11-23-2005, 03:33 PM
I cannot believe the positive reaction here. Let's review:

We suffer for several years (oh, like, 10) under the "let's get one more big bat" model. Does Albert Belle ring any belles?

We finally orient the team around affordable, "grinder" fielders combined with top-flight pitching, and WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

Suddenly, we need to trade for a guy who is 10 years older, on his last legs (literally), and eats up a ton of salary, all while losing a (less expensive) player who epitomizes the philosophy that WON US THE WORLD SERIES?



Who's next?

:shammy?


We're replacing Rowand with Anderson, who I figure is essentially the same player, if slightly better. Thome was injured ONCE, last year, and before he was injured was not hitting well. 2004 and 2003 he was still awesome.

soxfan26
11-23-2005, 03:33 PM
I hate to see Aaron go, he really grew on me the past two years. Thanks for the hard work and the memories! :cool:

My sentiments exactly. Good luck to you Aaron.

:welcome: Jim!!!

The Wimperoo
11-23-2005, 03:33 PM
I cannot believe the positive reaction here. Let's review:

We suffer for several years (oh, like, 10) under the "let's get one more big bat" model. Does Albert Belle ring any belles?

We finally orient the team around affordable, "grinder" fielders combined with top-flight pitching, and WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

Suddenly, we need to trade for a guy who is 10 years older, on his last legs (literally), and eats up a ton of salary, all while losing a (less expensive) player who epitomizes the philosophy that WON US THE WORLD SERIES?



Who's next?

:shammy?


Except for none of that is going away. Rowand's defense is replaced by Anderson who is younger and cheaper. Thome is replacing Everett. Huge upgrade there.

Taliesinrk
11-23-2005, 03:33 PM
Anyone think the Phils may try to move Rowand to New York for pitching?

Why not?? they (Mets) already have an awesome CF we traded away for a good power hitter...

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 03:34 PM
I cannot believe the positive reaction here. Let's review:

We suffer for several years (oh, like, 10) under the "let's get one more big bat" model. Does Albert Belle ring any belles?

We finally orient the team around affordable, "grinder" fielders combined with top-flight pitching, and WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

Suddenly, we need to trade for a guy who is 10 years older, on his last legs (literally), and eats up a ton of salary, all while losing a (less expensive) player who epitomizes the philosophy that WON US THE WORLD SERIES?



Who's next?

:shammy?

You gotta be kidding me. Thome replaces Everett. How is that a downgrade? We didn't give up any pitching according to Olney. Thome is just as much of a "grinder" as Rowand. So is Anderson for that matter. Thome isn't going to eat up a ton of salary. We'll probably pay him a little more than we payed Frank to sit on the bench for nearly all of last year. I don't see the downside to this trade...

tadscout
11-23-2005, 03:34 PM
straight up for aaron rowand plus they give "major cash considerations"? as long as he is healthy and plays like he did in 2004, this is a steal.

the biggest downside is that how will Frank come back?

Re-sign Paulie and look at our offense:

1. Podsednik
2. Anderson
3. Thome
4. Konerko
5. Dye
6. Iguchi
7. Pierzynski
8. Crede
9. Uribe

I think it would be-
3. Konerko (hits for average better/ more rounded hitter)
4. Thome (all out power hitter)

CLR01
11-23-2005, 03:34 PM
I cannot believe the positive reaction here. Let's review:

We suffer for several years (oh, like, 10) under the "let's get one more big bat" model. Does Albert Belle ring any belles?

We finally orient the team around affordable, "grinder" fielders combined with top-flight pitching, and WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

Suddenly, we need to trade for a guy who is 10 years older, on his last legs (literally), and eats up a ton of salary, all while losing a (less expensive) player who epitomizes the philosophy that WON US THE WORLD SERIES?



Who's next?

:shammy?


Can we atleast wait until we see what KW plans to do in center before claiming the Sox are screwing themselves? If it works out to where he is replacing CC's bat with Thomes it is not all that bad.

TornLabrum
11-23-2005, 03:35 PM
Why not?? they (Mets) already have an awesome CF we traded away for a good power hitter...

Didn't the Mets just trade him a week or so ago?

Tekijawa
11-23-2005, 03:35 PM
We finally orient the team around affordable, "grinder" fielders combined with top-flight pitching, and WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

We Still have Top flight pitching, nobody has left (we STILL have ALL 6 STARTERS) and by all accounts our defence is still the same with Anderson out there... I'magine what this team would have done with a potential .290 40HR 120RBI guy in the DH spot instead of Everett, we would have swept the playoffs instead of dropping that 1 game!:tongue:

SOXit2EM
11-23-2005, 03:36 PM
Thome is replacing Everett. Huge upgrade there. YES!!!

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 03:36 PM
Why not?? they (Mets) already have an awesome CF we traded away for a good power hitter...

Carlos Beltran is the Mets centerfielder. Also, I think he was referring to the Yankees, not the Mets.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 03:36 PM
Regardless of arguments over salary and effectiveness (which can be seen both ways...) the simple fact of the matter is that losing ARow sucks big time.

He was one of the hearts and souls of this team. He was a fan favorite. He epitomized the style of baseball (not to mention the other sports in town) that Chicagoans love. He was a big emotional part of the 2005 WORLD SERIES team.

I hate losing him. I hate it hate it hate it.

spiffie
11-23-2005, 03:37 PM
I cannot believe the positive reaction here. Let's review:

We suffer for several years (oh, like, 10) under the "let's get one more big bat" model. Does Albert Belle ring any belles?

We finally orient the team around affordable, "grinder" fielders combined with top-flight pitching, and WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

Suddenly, we need to trade for a guy who is 10 years older, a strikeout machine, on his last legs (literally), and eats up a ton of salary, all while losing a (less expensive) player who epitomizes the philosophy that WON US THE WORLD SERIES?



Who's next?

:shammy?

Difference is Thome has been extremely productive his entire career except for one injury. We have an even cheaper alternative who might be even better than Rowand waiting in the wings. We still have the top-flight pitching you mentioned. All we did was to take a very good team, and give it even more power without losing any of the core. The upgrade of a healthy Thome to this roster versus the possible drop from Anderson to Rowand is minimal, and that's assuming there's no further moves in the pipeline.

We won last year based on pitching, with offense being secondary. If we improve the offense, the pitching is as strong or stronger with McCarthy, how is this bad?

SouthSoxFan
11-23-2005, 03:38 PM
Why not?? they (Mets) already have an awesome CF we traded away for a good power hitter...
No, meant Yankees. They have a keen interest in Rowand, and about 7 starting pitchers.

On another note, if this trade does get done, it helps put a little pressure on Paulie and his agent to hurry up and get a deal done with the Sox.

Taliesinrk
11-23-2005, 03:38 PM
Didn't the Mets just trade him a week or so ago?

Uh Oh.. I must admit I haven't been able to follow the rest of the sports world as closely w/ school coming to an end and going home for the break. I heard rumors, but the last I heard he was still w/ the Mets.. where'd he go?

twsoxfan5
11-23-2005, 03:38 PM
[QUOTE=mweflen]I cannot believe the positive reaction here. Let's review:

We suffer for several years (oh, like, 10) under the "let's get one more big bat" model. Does Albert Belle ring any belles?

We finally orient the team around affordable, "grinder" fielders combined with top-flight pitching, and WIN THE WORLD SERIES.

Suddenly, we need to trade for a guy who is 10 years older, a strikeout machine, on his last legs (literally), and eats up a ton of salary, all while losing a (less expensive) player who epitomizes the philosophy that WON US THE WORLD SERIES

After the team wins World Series they need to make changes and in my opinion this is a good one. I liked Rowand a lot last year but he was nothing special at the plate. Also the one thing we could have used down the stretch was another power bat. We are replacing a good center fielder with one who could be great or could just be ok in Anderson. We also now have a solid DH and a back up first baseman in case we cant sign Paulie. To me this looks like a good deal, if it goes through.

D. TODD
11-23-2005, 03:39 PM
If this is a done deal, I hope Thome is healthy. If he is even close it is a great deal. He could be the missing peice for a world championship, oh wait we already did that.:D: Good move I like it. Good luck to A-Row, and good health for Big Jim.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 03:39 PM
Can we atleast wait until we see what KW plans to do in center before claiming the Sox are screwing themselves? If it works out to where he is replacing CC's bat with Thomes it is not all that bad.

As I've said, if Juan Pierre is somehow in the mix here, it makes it sting less. But it still stings.

Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.

SoxFan78
11-23-2005, 03:42 PM
I kind of relate this trade to the Olivio for Garcia/Davis trade. Olivio was a fan favorite, and I thought of him as our next great catcher. Very tough to see him leave but glad on who we got.

Now if the Sox trade Rowand for Thome I have mixed emotions. I hate to see Aaron go. One of the faces of the White Sox. Gave 110% in the field. Nobody can fault that.

But if the Sox can get a HEALTHY Thome out of the deal, that is a huge bat. And Anderson has shown he can play center field.

Still sucks though to lose Aaron.

nodiggity59
11-23-2005, 03:42 PM
As I've said, if Juan Pierre is somehow in the mix here, it makes it sting less. But it still stings.

Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.

I think an unseen factor in this deal is KW wants to protect himself against losing PK. I think evryone would agree that this deal is mandatory if we don't sign PK. But I agree. I hope someday the Sox offer Aaron a lifetime contract w/ a no trade clause. Probably won't happen:(:

Whitesox4ever
11-23-2005, 03:42 PM
Bruce Levine said its Rowand and 2 prospects going to Philly.. I wonder who are the prospects

Baby Fisk
11-23-2005, 03:42 PM
As I've said, if Juan Pierre is somehow in the mix here, it makes it sting less. But it still stings.

Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.
He's not monkeying around. He's just improved the team. You hate losing Rowand. So do many of us, but we also LIKE getting Thome.

cleanwsox
11-23-2005, 03:43 PM
As I've said, if Juan Pierre is somehow in the mix here, it makes it sting less. But it still stings.

Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.

Did you see how bad our #3 hitter was late in the regular season? It's worth the gamble with Thome seeing our outfield is still stacked. We basically are just opening the payroll a little bit for Thome, only losing a .270 hitter who is basically an older Brian Anderson.

Tekijawa
11-23-2005, 03:43 PM
Regardless of arguments over salary and effectiveness (which can be seen both ways...) the simple fact of the matter is that losing ARow sucks big time.

He was one of the hearts and souls of this team. He was a fan favorite. He epitomized the style of baseball (not to mention the other sports in town) that Chicagoans love. He was a big emotional part of the 2005 WORLD SERIES team.

I hate losing him. I hate it hate it hate it.


At the time I though my old Nintendo was better than anything else out there, because I was comfortable with it (I don't need 25 buttons)... but I have since gotten over it... a Couple times over now... Aaron Rowand = Nintendo

CLR01
11-23-2005, 03:43 PM
As I've said, if Juan Pierre is somehow in the mix here, it makes it sting less. But it still stings.

Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.


What's the harm in making the team better? Everyone else is trying to.

Kogs35
11-23-2005, 03:43 PM
As I've said, if Juan Pierre is somehow in the mix here, it makes it sting less. But it still stings.

Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.

how many times has the same team come back to win the title the next year? teams tinker all the time. besides baseball look at basketball. the pistons,lakers,spurs, and even bulls tinkerd with there teams.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 03:44 PM
I kind of relate this trade to the Olivio for Garcia/Davis trade. Olivio was a fan favorite, and I thought of him as our next great catcher. Very tough to see him leave but glad on who we got.

Now if the Sox trade Rowand for Thome I have mixed emotions. I hate to see Aaron go. One of the faces of the White Sox. Gave 110% in the field. Nobody can fault that.

But if the Sox can get a HEALTHY Thome out of the deal, that is a huge bat. And Anderson has shown he can play center field.

Still sucks though to lose Aaron.

Comparing Olivo and Rowand is like comparing a Pinto to a Ferrari. Or at least an Acura.

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 03:44 PM
Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.

Ugh, I'm gonna post my response to all those who think that winning the World Series means we shouldn't make any moves. Hell, I should just sticky this at the top of the Clubhouse because I'm sure it's going to be needed many more times.

Sorry, but that's a bad argument. You know why a lot of champions don't repeat? Because they think just like this. They think that because they won the World Series with this current team they don't need to make any moves. That isn't true. Not every White Sox player from this years team will perform the same in 2006. That's just sports. You can bet that at least one player who was a significant contributor to the 2005 White Sox will have an off year, get injured, or just start to decline overall. Also, other teams are getting better. You think the Indians are sitting back saying, "Well, we couldn't beat the Sox with this roster last year, but let's give it one more try?" Hell no. They are out there trying to improve their team so that they can win the World Series. Winning the World Series isn't an excuse for not trying to improve your team.

Dynasties become dynasties because they are always looking to get better. Look at the Patriots. In the 03-04 season they won the Super Bowl with Antowain Smith and Kevin Faulk doing a mediocre job of running the ball. Scott Pioli realized that despite the fact that the Patriots won the Super Bowl, their running game wasn't as good as it could be. So what did he do? He went and swung a trade to bring in Corey Dillon. Sure enough, the next year Dillon had the best year of his career, rushing for 1600+ yards and 12 TD while helping lead the Patriots to defend their championship. That's how you sustain success over many years unless your team is just so loaded with talent that you can't possibly improve. The Sox aren't in that position. There are areas we can improve on in order to increase our chances of repeating next year.

ShoelessJoeS
11-23-2005, 03:44 PM
Does anyone know who the 2 minor leaguers are that are supposedly headed to Philly with Aaron?

TornLabrum
11-23-2005, 03:45 PM
As I've said, if Juan Pierre is somehow in the mix here, it makes it sting less. But it still stings.

Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.

Past performance by World Series winners would indicate that standing pat is not the thing to do if you want to repeat. On the other hand, I haven't seen enough of either Pods or Anderson in centerfield to say that either would be an improvement over Rowand.

Since the ESPN web site is still saying a deal is "in the works," I'm going to wait until it is confirmed before saying anything else.

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 03:46 PM
Comparing Olivo and Rowand is like comparing a Pinto to a Ferrari.

Why? It's actually a great comparison. They were both fan favorites that put up mediocre numbers at the plate but people loved them because of one aspect of their defense.

Madvora
11-23-2005, 03:46 PM
If Anderson gets the starting job, I'll bet he has a very similar, if not better year than Aaron Rowand in 2006. Let's check out the stats in October 2006.
If that's the case, then this is a huge plus for us. This saves us money and adds a great hitter for getting rid of 1 of the 2 outfielders we had.

Taliesinrk
11-23-2005, 03:46 PM
This may be good for the team... it, however, does two things that really bother me.. and could ruin my day if I continue to dwell on them.


1. Although many have said we don't lose the grinder ball mentality because Thome's replacing CC, they are forgetting that w/ this deal also comes Anderson replacing Aaron. While Anderson may play similar ball, he wasn't defining grinder ball this past year, and playing all out the previous year. Aaron came to be one of the faces on this team and really epitomized what the Sox were all about. Can Anderson do the same? Perhaps; but it will certainly be in due time. :whiner:

2. This could very well mean Frank's end here. I don't think I can really sit here and stand to think about that very thought.. it just upsets me too much. If the Sox can get Paulie back, is Frank honestly going to sit and say, "sure, I'm a future HOF", I'll back up two guys for this season, seeing as I only have a couple good ones left in me?
- Perhaps someone could brighten my day a bit by explaining to me a way that Frank stays w/ the signings of PK and JT. And you can't make the argument about $$$$; because I'm not sure that is really what it's about for Frank. It'd be about PT. This also kind of rules out an incentive-based contract because he can't earn much $$ if he's not playing...

ChiSoxRowand
11-23-2005, 03:47 PM
I'll have to see what happens with guys like Pierre if this deal goes through. IMO Konerko is better than Thome, and if we land Thome I believe Konerko is out the door.

California Sox
11-23-2005, 03:48 PM
Regardless of arguments over salary and effectiveness (which can be seen both ways...) the simple fact of the matter is that losing ARow sucks big time.

He was one of the hearts and souls of this team. He was a fan favorite. He epitomized the style of baseball (not to mention the other sports in town) that Chicagoans love. He was a big emotional part of the 2005 WORLD SERIES team.

I hate losing him. I hate it hate it hate it.

I feel your pain. I, too, love what A.R. brings to the team. Seems like as soon as you become attached to a player in MLB, he gets traded. That said, if you've got a chance to get Jim Thome straight up for A.R. when you've got Anderson and Young in the wings, you gotta think about it. (If the deal also includes McCarthy, that's another matter.)

Now, what this does to the Sox pursuit of Konerko is another matter. It's possible they decide to let Rogo hit seventh or eighth and move Crede up to, say, fifth in the order. We'll see if they still have money to pay Paulie. I'd hate to lose both Paulie and Rowand in one season, but it was our pitching that won for us. As long as we keep that intact, we'll be tough.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 03:48 PM
Ugh, I'm gonna post my response to all those who think that winning the World Series means we shouldn't make any moves. Hell, I should just sticky this at the top of the Clubhouse because I'm sure it's going to be needed many more times.

I am not saying that no moves should be made. We could use a better 5th starter, and more speed in the lineup.

Getting Thome accomplishes neither, and we lose both speed and contact hitting, not to mention great defense, in the process.

A move which augments the team in a weak spot would be great. A move which goes against the philosophy that just won us a series, and blows more money, is just pointless tinkering.

Madvora
11-23-2005, 03:49 PM
- Perhaps someone could brighten my day a bit by explaining to me a way that Frank stays w/ the signings of PK and JT. And you can't make the argument about $$$$; because I'm not sure that is really what it's about for Frank. It'd be about PT. This also kind of rules out an incentive-based contract because he can't earn much $$ if he's not playing...
Good point. Right now it may appear that it's either Konerko or Thomas.
However, this makes me think that the chance of Frank returning is very. very low.

Iwritecode
11-23-2005, 03:49 PM
KW's plan to aquire the complete set of mid-90's Indians starters in nearly complete!

Who's left, Manny and Omar? :cool:


Seriously, I hate to see Rowand leave but I like this trade.

downstairs
11-23-2005, 03:49 PM
If this deal doesn't include any of our pitchers, this is a GREAT move.

Rowand is not a hall of famer, and our team didn't win becase or in spite of him. I am sure he's a great guy, but he's only a minor part of the reason we won.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 03:49 PM
Why? It's actually a great comparison. They were both fan favorites that put up mediocre numbers at the plate but people loved them because of one aspect of their defense.

Olivo and Rowand are two WAAAAAYYYY different levels of "mediocrity." We're talking a 283 hitter vs. a 229 one.


btw, here's a link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2234843

skottyj242
11-23-2005, 03:49 PM
I've always been a Jim Thome fan I just really hope that if this trade is done that Jim hits as good for us as he did against us.

samram
11-23-2005, 03:49 PM
As I've said, if Juan Pierre is somehow in the mix here, it makes it sting less. But it still stings.

Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.

It's not about a "big splash," but you have to get better. Aaron's a nice player, but all indications are that Anderson, Young, and Owens can all be better than he is. It's not like they're trading Aaron for J.T. Snow- they're getting a middle of the order hitter who gives the Sox their best left-handed power hitter since Ventura was here (unless I'm forgetting someone).

By the way, who would have thought a year ago that if the Phillies wanted Aaron Rowand for Jim Thome, the Phils would have to pony up a bunch of cash?

Tekijawa
11-23-2005, 03:50 PM
Everyone please take time to remember this clip from the ESPN Article:

"Rowand, 28, set career highs in 2004 by hitting .310 with 38 doubles, 24 homers and 69 RBI."

We can replace that... and what happened Aaron runs bad routes! This is a guy that half this board didn't want starting on this team this year... WE JUST GOT JIM THOME FOR HIM!

WhiteSox1983
11-23-2005, 03:50 PM
Im not down with this trade. Thome is old, and its possible he might not be the same after injury. However if paulie is gon play hardball with us, then we do need a backup plan for first base or the DH.

nodiggity59
11-23-2005, 03:50 PM
I am not saying that no moves should be made. We could use a better 5th starter, and more speed in the lineup.

Getting Thome accomplishes neither, and we lose both speed and contact hitting, not to mention great defense, in the process.

A move which augments the team in a weak spot would be great. A move which goes against the philosophy that just won us a series, and blows more money, is just pointless tinkering.

Grinder ball did not win us anything. Pitching and defense did. Our pitching has been bolstered in 06 and our defense will be the same if you believe the scouts on this board (which you're free not to of course).

Offensively, we won by hitting homeruns.

TheDarkGundam
11-23-2005, 03:51 PM
I haven't seen anything official about it on the Sox website, sounds like a good trade but i'm gonna miss old ARow. I believe this song is appropriate:

------
Another turning point, a fork stuck in the road
Time grabs you by the wrist, directs you where to go
So, make the best of this test and don't ask why
it's not a question but a lesson learned in time
It's something unpredictable but, in the end, is right
I hope you had the time of your life

So, take the photographs and still-frames in your mind
Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time
Tattoos of memories and dead skin on trial
For what it's worth, it was worth all the while
It's something unpredictable but, in the end, is right
I hope you had the time of your life
------

California Sox
11-23-2005, 03:52 PM
Does anyone know who the 2 minor leaguers are that are supposedly headed to Philly with Aaron?

What two minor leaguers? :o: I haven't heard anything about that. Olney's reporting a straight-up deal.

Fake Chet Lemon
11-23-2005, 03:52 PM
Why is everyone so excited this isn't 1999 so we are not getting the same Thome the indians had.To be honest i would rather have Crazy Carl then Thome


:dtroll: Remember the good old days, when the trolls made it a challenge to catch them?

The Wimperoo
11-23-2005, 03:52 PM
Comcast SportsNet Philly says

On Wednesday, the Phillies confirmed that they had traded Thome and considerable cash considerations in the neighborhood of $24 to $30 million to the World Series champion Chicago White Sox for center fielder Aaron Rowand.


That's a serious chunk of change.

D. TODD
11-23-2005, 03:53 PM
I'll have to see what happens with guys like Pierre if this deal goes through. IMO Konerko is better than Thome, and if we land Thome I believe Konerko is out the door. A healthy Thome is head and shoulders better then Konerko. That is not a slight against Paulie, but Thome was a monster before he missed last season. Look up the numbers & compare with Paulie's NO CONTEST! Sign PK also if you can , but if we lose him we won't be hamstrung in filling in for him now.

Tekijawa
11-23-2005, 03:53 PM
- Perhaps someone could brighten my day a bit by explaining to me a way that Frank stays w/ the signings of PK and JT.

My cousin heard this guy on his cell phone talking about Thomas practicing taking ground balls in the Parking lot of the Wynn Casino for the past 3 months and that he could proove to be an effective Utillity infielder. Or what about Konerko in Center.

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 03:53 PM
I am not saying that no moves should be made. We could use a better 5th starter, and more speed in the lineup.

Getting Thome accomplishes neither, and we lose both speed and contact hitting, not to mention great defense, in the process.

A move which augments the team in a weak spot would be great. A move which goes against the philosophy that just won us a series, and blows more money, is just pointless tinkering.

Sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Jim Thome replaces Carl Everett. Carl Everett brought neither speed nor contact hitting to the team. What we needed, and have needed for years, is a legitimate left-handed threat in the middle of the lineup. Jim Thome brings us that.

We don't even need a 5th starter unless one of our starters is traded. We have Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras and McCarthy with El Duque as insurance in case one of them goes down. How can you possibly say a 5th starter is more important than a power hitting, left-handed hitting middle of the order bat?

This was a weak spot for us! It does not go against the philosophy that won us a World Series in any way. Anderson is just as good in center in Rowand and his bat is potentially much better than Rowand's.

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 03:53 PM
the biggest downside is that how will Frank come back?


Frank is as good as gone once Konerko re-signs.

y2j2785
11-23-2005, 03:53 PM
I like the idea of Thome in a sox uni. He's been a sox killer for so many years, now he can beat up on the AL Central pitching again. I think KW will make a few more moves, but idk about anything major like this. I can see KW signing Konerko and Mueller and trading someone like Marte for Pierre. I will miss Rowand though. Thanks for the Memories aaron > :whiner:

ShoelessJoeS
11-23-2005, 03:53 PM
What two minor leaguers? :o: I haven't heard anything about that. Olney's reporting a straight-up deal.
I was listening to the radio and they said Aaron Rowand + 2 minor leaguers for Thome + cash (almost half of his contract)

RockyMtnSoxFan
11-23-2005, 03:54 PM
This is pure speculation, but did anybody else notice that Thome is one of those sluggers who experienced a sudden decline with the advent of drug testing?

I don't like this deal at all. The implications about Frank, the loss of a good CF, replacing a grinder with Thome (not a grinder). I hope it's not true.

WCCMIKE
11-23-2005, 03:55 PM
Are you trying to get a vacation for trolling?Nope i'm a huge Sox fan sorry i was trying to be funny:(:

Ol' No. 2
11-23-2005, 03:55 PM
I'm as big an Aaron Rowand fan as anyone, but you can't stand pat. DH was a huge hole for the Sox in 2005 and Thome >>>>> Everett. The Sox are stacked with OF talent, so it makes sense to move one of them. I'm pretty confident that Anderson can put up at least as good numbers as Rowand, and when you factor in Thome, this is a huge upgrade.

A couple of caveats:

1. I have to assume KW has thoroughly evaluated Thome's back.

2. Who are the prospects? If Chris Young is one of them, this deal doesn't look nearly as good.

DirtySouthsider
11-23-2005, 03:55 PM
I was listening to the radio and they said Aaron Rowand + 2 minor leaguers for Thome + cash (almost half of his contract)


It's now official ....per ESPN 1000!

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 03:55 PM
Olivo and Rowand are two WAAAAAYYYY different levels of "mediocrity." We're talking a 283 hitter vs. a 229 one.


btw, here's a link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2234843

Olivo was hitting .270/.316/.496/.812 when he was traded from the Sox.

Rowand hit .270/.329/.407/.736 last year.

Where's the difference?

Iwritecode
11-23-2005, 03:55 PM
I am not saying that no moves should be made. We could use a better 5th starter, and more speed in the lineup.

Getting Thome accomplishes neither, and we lose both speed and contact hitting, not to mention great defense, in the process.

A move which augments the team in a weak spot would be great. A move which goes against the philosophy that just won us a series, and blows more money, is just pointless tinkering.

First of all, I doubt KW is done. We have to wait and see what other moves he'll make before April 1st. For all we know we could get a guy like Pierre to replace Rowand. Then we'll basically be replacing Rowand with Pierre and Everett with Thome.

Second, I think KW wants to improve the offense at least a little. He knows that it's highly unlikely that they are to going win as many 1-run games as they did last year.

It's very difficult (although not impossible) to go through the entire season scoring "just enough" runs to win. The Sox had a little bit of luck with them.

PKalltheway
11-23-2005, 03:55 PM
Oh boy. I'm really holding my breath on this one. You're losing a young outfielder with good defense and decent speed on the basepaths for an aging slugger with maybe one or two decent (not good) decent years left in him. Don't we already have an aging slugger with 1-2 decent years left if that many (Frank Thomas)?

:hawk You can put it on the board....huh?

mweflen
11-23-2005, 03:55 PM
Sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Jim Thome replaces Carl Everett. Carl Everett brought neither speed nor contact hitting to the team. What we needed, and have needed for years, is a legitimate left-handed threat in the middle of the lineup. Jim Thome brings us that.

We don't even need a 5th starter unless one of our starters is traded. We have Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras and McCarthy with El Duque as insurance in case one of them goes down. How can you possibly say a 5th starter is more important than a power hitting, left-handed hitting middle of the order bat?

This was a weak spot for us! It does not go against the philosophy that won us a World Series in any way. Anderson is just as good in center in Rowand and his bat is potentially much better than Rowand's.

Well, I'm sorry my OPINION is WRONG, but I'm sticking to it.

TimChamp
11-23-2005, 03:56 PM
I'm OK with this deal. And here's one of the main reasons why. Doesn't Thome have awesome career numbers at the Cell? If somebody could post them on here, that would be great. I know he was a Sox killer, but I remember him hitting really well at the Cell.


--Champ out

mweflen
11-23-2005, 03:57 PM
First of all, I doubt KW is done. We have to wait and see what other moves he'll make before April 1st. For all we know we could get a guy like Pierre to replace Rowand. Then we'll basically be replacing Rowand with Pierre and Everett with Thome.


Please see my previous post which states that Pierre somehow arriving takes the sting off of this one. Nevertheless, I hate losing Rowand.

Taliesinrk
11-23-2005, 03:57 PM
I am not saying that no moves should be made. We could use a better 5th starter, and more speed in the lineup.

Getting Thome accomplishes neither, and we lose both speed and contact hitting, not to mention great defense, in the process.

A move which augments the team in a weak spot would be great. A move which goes against the philosophy that just won us a series, and blows more money, is just pointless tinkering.

Alright.. no. Although I don't like the trade this is just wrong. It'd be pretty tough to find a better 5th started w/ an upside of BMac. Secondly, perhaps Anderson isn't Rowand on the basepaths in speed, but he probably isn't getting gunned at the plate in the ALCS. Furthermore, I loved Aaron and how he played the game; this, however, does not mean that Anderson cannot play solid-great D either... you're not necessarily losing the "great defense". Thirdly, and by far the most ridiculous part of your post is that u imply that this move doesn't help the team's weak spot. The only true power hitter the Sox had for all of last year had a name. His name was Paul Konerko. This player became a FA, and now the White Sox have no proven power hitter. This, unfortunately, is our biggest weak spot. Therefore, the trade to aquire Thome not only addresses a weak spot on the White Sox: it addresses a giagantic gaping hole on the White Sox..

DirtySouthsider
11-23-2005, 03:57 PM
Well, I'm sorry my OPINION is WRONG, but I'm sticking to it.


It's official....Thome and cash for rowand......no minor leaguers....per espn.com

Dolly
11-23-2005, 03:57 PM
It's now official ....per ESPN 1000!Holy crap! Well, personal feelings aside, I like it. But it is bittersweet.... I love Aaron!!! :whiner:

Baby Fisk
11-23-2005, 03:57 PM
I am not saying that no moves should be made. We could use a better 5th starter, and more speed in the lineup.

Getting Thome accomplishes neither, and we lose both speed and contact hitting, not to mention great defense, in the process.

A move which augments the team in a weak spot would be great. A move which goes against the philosophy that just won us a series, and blows more money, is just pointless tinkering.
Why do we need a better fifth starter when we already have 6 starters to choose from? :?: As for more speed and augmenting weak spots, let's see what else Kenny has in store this off season. People went wild over the Lee-Podsednik trade, but came around when they saw the rest of Kenny's moves last off-season. THIS move gives us Thome instead of Crazy Carl, at the expense of a player who is obviously loved, based on some of the reactions in this thread. It sucks, yes it does, but you are making this sound like a disastrous deal when it clearly is not. Come on!

Iwritecode
11-23-2005, 03:58 PM
Sorry, but this is just flat out wrong. Jim Thome replaces Carl Everett. Carl Everett brought neither speed nor contact hitting to the team. What we needed, and have needed for years, is a legitimate left-handed threat in the middle of the lineup. Jim Thome brings us that.

We don't even need a 5th starter unless one of our starters is traded. We have Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras and McCarthy with El Duque as insurance in case one of them goes down. How can you possibly say a 5th starter is more important than a power hitting, left-handed hitting middle of the order bat?

This was a weak spot for us! It does not go against the philosophy that won us a World Series in any way. Anderson is just as good in center in Rowand and his bat is potentially much better than Rowand's.

I made the same basic post but completely forgot that he's left-handed. Duh.

:wink:

Tekijawa
11-23-2005, 03:58 PM
Comcast SportsNet Philly says



That's a serious chunk of change.

WOW $24-30 Million... that will pay for Konerko! and Get me Brian Giles Agent on the Phone... we need a centerfielder!

D. TODD
11-23-2005, 03:58 PM
This is pure speculation, but did anybody else notice that Thome is one of those sluggers who experienced a sudden decline with the advent of drug testing?

I don't like this deal at all. The implications about Frank, the loss of a good CF, replacing a grinder with Thome (not a grinder). I hope it's not true. So did Rowand. Both had a sudden decline, but Thome went on the D.L.. Let's not besmirch either players with speculation. Good luck to A-Row, and welcome aboard Big Jim!!!

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 03:59 PM
Well, I'm sorry my OPINION is WRONG, but I'm sticking to it.

You can have whatever opinion you want, but don't make things up to try to support your opinion.

cleanwsox
11-23-2005, 03:59 PM
I'm OK with this deal. And here's one of the main reasons why. Doesn't Thome have awesome career numbers at the Cell? If somebody could post them on here, that would be great. I know he was a Sox killer, but I remember him hitting really well at the Cell.



No kidding, if he stays healthy for a whole year which should be easier if he is DH'ing... there should be a bunch of balls in those right field seats this year.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:00 PM
I'm pretty confident that Anderson can put up at least as good numbers as Rowand

This seems to be what everyone is falling back on. It reminds me of an old saying about birds in bushes...

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 04:00 PM
It's now official ....per ESPN 1000!

Awesome! Sorry to see Aaron go, but it's a deal that we needed to make. Good luck in Philly, Aaron!

And welcome aboard Jim Thome! :bandance:

JRIG
11-23-2005, 04:00 PM
Pending the ID on the minor leaguers, this is an OUTSTANDING deal. Thome is a guy who gets on base, which is one of the big additions that was needed for the lineup. Every full season in the majors, his OBP has been above .385. Not to mention the power and the left-handed bat.

And while I liked Rowand, he's a great bargaining chip and just got us a big fish. Brian Anderson is ready and deserves a shot at center field from Day One next year.

Iwritecode
11-23-2005, 04:00 PM
Please see my previous post which states that Pierre somehow arriving takes the sting off of this one. Nevertheless, I hate losing Rowand.

I think it would suck to lose any of the starters from last year but this is a business and to get talent you have to give talent...

ShoelessJoeS
11-23-2005, 04:01 PM
I believe that Levine just said that the minor leaguers are Gio Gonzalez and if I heard correctly, Haigwood

Whitesox4ever
11-23-2005, 04:01 PM
Daniel Haigwood goes to the Phillies

thepaulbowski
11-23-2005, 04:01 PM
As I've said, if Juan Pierre is somehow in the mix here, it makes it sting less. But it still stings.

Why does KW have to monkey around with a team that WON THE WORLD SERIES? You'd think we were Boston or NY or something, having to make some big splash.

:rolleyes:

You are either getting better or declining, there is no such thing as "staying the same." Good move Kenny, a powerful left handed bat. :bandance:

Gammons Peter
11-23-2005, 04:01 PM
I love this deal. Anyone else become physically ill watching Rowand continuously swing and miss at that pitch low and away, again and again and again...

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 04:01 PM
I'm pretty confident that Anderson can put up at least as good numbers as Rowand, and when you factor in Thome, this is a huge upgrade.


I don't know about that. Apparently Aaron Rowand is now Hank Aaron, so we'll see...

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:01 PM
You can have whatever opinion you want, but don't make things up to try to support your opinion.

How is further opining on the team's needs "making things up?"

I'm sorry, but you are flat out wrong, here.

Nellie_Fox
11-23-2005, 04:01 PM
I'm not on board with this move. It seems to be contrary to the direction Kenny and Ozzie wanted to take the team. Another slow-footed slugger clogging the basepaths, and probably at the expense of bringing Frank back. I guess we'll see how it plays out. It's not like the Sox were totally lacking power.

Shoeless Joe
11-23-2005, 04:02 PM
I'm OK with this deal. And here's one of the main reasons why. Doesn't Thome have awesome career numbers at the Cell? If somebody could post them on here, that would be great. I know he was a Sox killer, but I remember him hitting really well at the Cell.


--Champ out

The problem with this logic is that he was facing White Sox pitching not Comiskey Park or U.S. Cellular Field. I'm not sure what to think of this deal. But come on guys, we finally have a pretty good left handed bat.

JohnBasedowYoda
11-23-2005, 04:02 PM
i'm not happy, not one bit

DeuceUnit
11-23-2005, 04:03 PM
Gio, and Haigwood are the minor leaguers.

santo=dorf
11-23-2005, 04:03 PM
So I take it Thome waived his NTC???

Bye Rowand! At least we won't have more Rowand fights on WSI. :cool:

Ol' No. 2
11-23-2005, 04:04 PM
This seems to be what everyone is falling back on. It reminds me of an old saying about birds in bushes...I understand what you're saying, and I've made the same point several times. Anderson is still unproven. But OTOH, this isn't a business for the timid. There's a risk involved, but with the added offensive punch from Thome, the Sox can live with Anderson hitting .230 if need be.

y2j2785
11-23-2005, 04:04 PM
IDK if anyone reported this but it was just announced on Comcast Sports Net.

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:04 PM
Well, I'm sorry my OPINION is WRONG, but I'm sticking to it.

That's fine, but keep in mind that KW had to act. Frank's health is even bigger question mark than Thome's, and there's no guarantee that Konerko remains in Chicago.

The way I see it, Williams was thinking about the following scenarios when he made this trade:

1. Thomas' health is too much of a concern; Konerko will re-sign; thus, Thome replaces Thomas/Everett at DH, and Konerko remains at 1B.

2. Thomas is healthy; Konerko signs with Los Angeles; thus, Thomas is the DH, and Thome plays 1B.

3. Thomas health is too risky; Konerko leaves; thus, Thome remains as the 1B, Due moves to DH, and another move is made to secure a RF.

4. Both Thomas and Konerko remain with team; Thome and Thomas platoon, with Thome receiving most of the playing time. If any of three players is injured, two remain in the lineup until the third returns.

Also keep in mind that Williams may not be finished. I have the impression that he wants to change a few other things about the Sox roster before Spring Traning opens. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Sox had an entirely new outfield next season.

Great job by Ken Williams! He's doing exactly what he needs to do to improve this ballclub for next season. Jim Thome is still capable of hitting 35-40 home runs, and with the 'Cells dimensions, he could have big season in '06.

The Deacon
11-23-2005, 04:04 PM
Rowand can be replaced. And Thome is a SERIOUS upgrade from Carl Everett. We needed some leftie power, big time.

WhiteSox1983
11-23-2005, 04:05 PM
This is pure speculation, but did anybody else notice that Thome is one of those sluggers who experienced a sudden decline with the advent of drug testing?

I don't like this deal at all. The implications about Frank, the loss of a good CF, replacing a grinder with Thome (not a grinder). I hope it's not true.

Co-Sign

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:05 PM
Another slow-footed slugger clogging the basepaths, and probably at the expense of bringing Frank back. It's not like the Sox were totally lacking power.

These are key statements in evaluating this trade.

Unless someone like Juane Pierre is in the wings to offset this loss of speed, this is a bad move in my OPINION, because we lose speed, we get an unknown quantity of offense (for a team that was not lacking HR power in the slightest), and we lose defense.

ChiWhiteSox1337
11-23-2005, 04:05 PM
I was at the Sox-Phillies home run derby back in 2004 when the Sox won 14-11 and I'm just getting chills down my spine thinking of Thome, who hit 2 monster shots, playing for the White Sox. Sad to see Rowand go, but I'm really excited to see Thome..

salty99
11-23-2005, 04:05 PM
tell me again how Thome fits into OzzieBall?

Hitmen77
11-23-2005, 04:06 PM
Why not?? they (Mets) already have an awesome CF we traded away for a good power hitter...

The Mets just traded(?) Mike Cameron to the Padres a few days ago.

julio-cruz
11-23-2005, 04:06 PM
very bittersweet... hate to see Rowand go, but we are back-logged with outfielders. But power-hitting left-hand hitters don't grow on trees.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:06 PM
btw,:tomatoaward

PKalltheway
11-23-2005, 04:06 PM
Why do we need a better fifth starter when we already have 6 starters to choose from? :?: As for more speed and augmenting weak spots, let's see what else Kenny has in store this off season. People went wild over the Lee-Podsednik trade, but came around when they saw the rest of Kenny's moves last off-season. THIS move gives us Thome instead of Crazy Carl, at the expense of a player who is obviously loved, based on some of the reactions in this thread. It sucks, yes it does, but you are making this sound like a disastrous deal when it clearly is not. Come on!

You are right about last year when we traded Lee for Podsednik. I went crazy over how dumb I thought that trade was. Well, I guess I was dumb for thinking such a thing!:D: We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out. Losing Rowand though...:whiner:

CLR01
11-23-2005, 04:07 PM
So I take it Thome waived his NTC???

Bye Rowand! At least we won't have more Rowand fights on WSI. :cool:


Are you kidding? The Rowand arguments will probably get worse now that he is gone.


Random game thread:

Rowand would have caught that ball and got that runner over. Anderson Sucks.

JRIG
11-23-2005, 04:07 PM
tell me again how Thome fits into OzzieBall?

He gets on base at a .400 clip and hits the hell out of the ball.

JermaineDye05
11-23-2005, 04:07 PM
well this is making me feel just like the scotty p deal upset to see him go but excited to see the new white sox DH

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:07 PM
I'm not on board with this move. It seems to be contrary to the direction Kenny and Ozzie wanted to take the team. Another slow-footed slugger clogging the basepaths, and probably at the expense of bringing Frank back. I guess we'll see how it plays out. It's not like the Sox were totally lacking power.

I think Frank's health is the reason this move was made. It's a good bet that Ozzie/KW/JR know more about Thomas' foot than we do, and they may have felt that getting Thome now would protect them if Frank can't play again.

I think it's a moot point, however. Now that Thome is here, Frank is as good as gone. I hope he likes hitting in giant Trash Bag next season.

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 04:07 PM
How is further opining on the team's needs "making things up?"

I'm sorry, but you are flat out wrong, here.

You wrote:

I am not saying that no moves should be made. We could use a better 5th starter, and more speed in the lineup.

Getting Thome accomplishes neither, and we lose both speed and contact hitting, not to mention great defense, in the process.

A move which augments the team in a weak spot would be great. A move which goes against the philosophy that just won us a series, and blows more money, is just pointless tinkering.

This move in no way goes against the philosophy that won us the World Series. That's flat out wrong. This team relieved heavily on the longball to win games last year. That's not even opinion. It's a flat out fact.

Furthermore, Thome replaces Everett and does augment the team in a weak spot. How can you possibly deny that this team has lacked a legitimate left-handed middle of the order bat the past few years? Even Kenny Williams has stated numerous times that he wishes we had a lefty in the middle of the order. Yet you're saying that isn't a weak spot?

DirtySouthsider
11-23-2005, 04:08 PM
tell me again how Thome fits into OzzieBall?


How did Carl Evertt fit into Ozzieball????

Taliesinrk
11-23-2005, 04:08 PM
These are key statements in evaluating this trade.

Unless someone like Juane Pierre is in the wings to offset this loss of speed, this is a bad move in my OPINION, because we lose speed, we get an unknown quantity of offense (for a team that was not lacking HR power in the slightest), and we lose defense.

Where do we lose soooooo much speed here? Anderson for Rowand? Or Thome for CC? Either way, it doesn't seem to me that this trade sends us from Michael Johnson to my grandma. I don't see it being that big of a deal, when you consider the offensive numbers..

downstairs
11-23-2005, 04:08 PM
tell me again how Thome fits into OzzieBall?

Same way Konerko, Thomas and Everett did.

Oh, and BTW... one, two or three of these guys will be gone next year...

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:08 PM
Are you kidding? The Rowand arguments will probably get worse now that he is gone.


Random game thread:

Rowand would have caught that ball and got that runner over. Anderson Sucks.

You're right. The first time Anderson screws up, the Rowand fans will be screaming for his head.

California Sox
11-23-2005, 04:08 PM
Gio, and Haigwood are the minor leaguers.

Wow. No wonder the Phillies were willing to fork over the dough. Those are our two top lefties. Haigwood will pitch in the majors next year I bet and Gio has a chance to be pretty special. That said, anything to keep them off McCarthy is an improvement.

I always felt that I liked Haigwood more than the Sox did. Gio's a large loss, but the Sox have to live within their budget.

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 04:08 PM
tell me again how Thome fits into OzzieBall?

The same way Carl Everett fit into Ozzieball.

Edit: Damn, I was late with this line.

Frankly Missing
11-23-2005, 04:08 PM
Thome is fools gold at this stage of his career and recent injuries.

If this costs us to lose Frank, shame on us.

mikef1331
11-23-2005, 04:09 PM
THIS SUCKS! This probably means that either Frank, Paulie or BOTH won't be here next season! :angry:

y2j2785
11-23-2005, 04:09 PM
Gio, and Haigwood are the minor leaguers.

GIO!? I like getting Thome, but why did we trade Gio, i mean i know he didnt prove anything yet, but he could be a great starter in the future. Oh well.

California Sox
11-23-2005, 04:10 PM
Also, prediction right here: No guarantee that Anderson beats out Young. Also, Owens can play center, may be part of rotation or platoon.

downstairs
11-23-2005, 04:10 PM
Thome is fools gold at this stage of his career and recent injuries.

If this costs us to lose Frank, shame on us.

The only thing that will cost us to lose Frank is money. He will certainly negotiate with the Sox first. If it breaks down, it would anyway.

Thomas is only worth so much. This trade will not change what the Sox would have offered him at their max.

Now, if Thomas doesn't want it... he leaves.

Ol' No. 2
11-23-2005, 04:10 PM
These are key statements in evaluating this trade.

Unless someone like Juane Pierre is in the wings to offset this loss of speed, this is a bad move in my OPINION, because we lose speed, we get an unknown quantity of offense (for a team that was not lacking HR power in the slightest), and we lose defense.It's not just about power. Teams need balance. They got pretty consistent production from the top of the order except when Pods was on the DL. But the middle of the order was a lot less consistent. Konerko always has a month where he hits .200. Dye just sucked for the first two months. Everett was a cipher most of the year. Adding another solid bat, and a left-handed one, significantly improves the middle of the lineup. You can't seriously argue that DH is not a problem area. You're not giving up any speed since Anderson is just as fast as Rowand. He's also as good defensively. He may struggle at the plate, but the extra offensive punch from adding Thome should more than offset this.

JRIG
11-23-2005, 04:10 PM
Thome is fools gold at this stage of his career and recent injuries.

If this costs us to lose Frank, shame on us.

You will not find a bigger Frank fan than me on these boards.

But how in the world can you make that statement about Thome, and then not apply it to Thomas in the very next sentence? :kukoo:

tebman
11-23-2005, 04:11 PM
The way I see it, Williams was thinking about the following scenarios when he made this trade:

1. Thomas' health is too much of a concern; Konerko will re-sign; thus, Thome replaces Thomas/Everett at DH, and Konerko remains at 1B.

2. Thomas is healthy; Konerko signs with Los Angeles; thus, Thomas is the DH, and Thome plays 1B.

3. Thomas health is too risky; Konerko leaves; thus, Thome remains as the 1B, Due moves to DH, and another move is made to secure a RF.

4. Both Thomas and Konerko remain with team; Thome and Thomas platoon, with Thome receiving most of the playing time. If any of three players is injured, two remain in the lineup until the third returns.

Also keep in mind that Williams may not be finished. I have the impression that he wants to change a few other things about the Sox roster before Spring Traning opens. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Sox had an entirely new outfield next season.

Great job by Ken Williams! He's doing exactly what he needs to do to improve this ballclub for next season. Jim Thome is still capable of hitting 35-40 home runs, and with the 'Cells dimensions, he could have big season in '06.
That's an excellent summary and another example of why KW should've gotten the Executive of the Year award last year.

I'll miss Rowand too -- I liked his style, his attitude and his approach to the game. But because I know he understands baseball, I'm confident he'll go on as the true pro that he is. He was traded because the Phillies wanted him and the deal worked well for both sides.

All the best, Aaron!

CLR01
11-23-2005, 04:11 PM
THIS SUCKS! This probably means that either Frank, Paulie or BOTH won't be here next season! :angry:


Do you have some ind of source telling you these things? Everything I have read says this deal would not affect the Konerko situation one bit.

ShoelessJoeS
11-23-2005, 04:11 PM
Wow. No wonder the Phillies were willing to fork over the dough. Those are our two top lefties. Haigwood will pitch in the majors next year I bet and Gio has a chance to be pretty special. That said, anything to keep them off McCarthy is an improvement.

I always felt that I liked Haigwood more than the Sox did. Gio's a large loss, but the Sox have to live within their budget.
These are some devestating minor league losses, Gio and Haigwood were easily our best lefties. I like the "win now" attitude that Kenny Williams has set since the Freddy trade in '04.

Baby Fisk
11-23-2005, 04:12 PM
Now that Thome is here, Frank is as good as gone. I hope he likes hitting in giant Trash Bag next season.:o: Dude. That was harsh.

http://worldoflongmire.com/dailycomment/count_dookula.jpg
"I would never have spoken such heresy."

miker
11-23-2005, 04:12 PM
Okay, IF Thome returns to anywhere close to his pre-injury numbers AND IF Anderson has an adequate first full season in the Majors OR if there is another CF deal in the works, this could work out.

And from most reports I've read, Thome doen't seem to be a prima donna, so he should fit in well with this team (even though many of you poo-poo team chemistry.) If someone has info to the contrary, please present it.

Bye Aaron, thanks for the memories. :gulp:

salty99
11-23-2005, 04:12 PM
If we get another veteran OF and Thome stays healthy I don't mind this deal as much. Otherwise I don't like it. Yeah but maybe we can trade for Carl again.

mterraza
11-23-2005, 04:13 PM
Could they have done this BEFORE the DVD release?

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:13 PM
THIS SUCKS! This probably means that either Frank, Paulie or BOTH won't be here next season! :angry:

Konerko will be back; Thomas won't.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:13 PM
You wrote:



This move in no way goes against the philosophy that won us the World Series. That's flat out wrong. This team relieved heavily on the longball to win games last year. That's not even opinion. It's a flat out fact.

Furthermore, Thome replaces Everett and does augment the team in a weak spot. How can you possibly deny that this team has lacked a legitimate left-handed middle of the order bat the past few years? Even Kenny Williams has stated numerous times that he wishes we had a lefty in the middle of the order. Yet you're saying that isn't a weak spot?

Jjav, we seem to have a difference of OPINION on what constitutes a good baseball team. You seem to like power more, I seem to like contact hitting, speed and defense more.

Why do you have to make things personal by saying that I am "making things up?"

oeo
11-23-2005, 04:14 PM
Do you have some ind of source telling you these things? Everything I have read says this deal would not affect the Konerko situation one bit.

Exactly...Thome can DH and IF we don't re-sign Paulie, then we have a first baseman. This is all just insurance in case Paulie isn't re-signed. Kenny can't just wait around and hope Paulie is going to re-sign...because if he doesn't we've got no one; now we do.

bigdommer
11-23-2005, 04:15 PM
I like the deal...gotta strike while the iron's hot. I love Aaron, but he can be replaced, while Konerko cannot (without a deal like this). This is a risky move for KW, but I think the reward far outweighs the risk for the following reasons:

1. KW dealt from a position of depth (outfield).
2. KW has a proven big league CF to fall back on (Pods).
3. The cash thrown in doesn't hurt the budget too much.
4. Thome is great insurance for situations KW can't control (Konerko, Hurt)
5. With the pitching and defense, the Sox are ready to win in 2006, so go for it.

Two things I do not like:
1. Throwing Gio in there (tough to find good lefties, and it is not a position of depth)
2. Health is a concern (then again, Rowand could "crash" into a wall on opening day)

I really like this deal, even if Gio becomes Dontrelle Willis (you heard it hear first).

downstairs
11-23-2005, 04:15 PM
Konerko will be back; Thomas won't.

I can't see any team overpaying for Thomas. Konerko, yes. Thomas, no way.

Everyone is going to offer Frank what he's worth- an inscentive laden contract... the numbers will be no different than what we offer.

santo=dorf
11-23-2005, 04:15 PM
Did I hear correctly? The Sox will be paying Thome $8 million per? That's a ****ing bargain! :o:

Frankly Missing
11-23-2005, 04:15 PM
You will not find a bigger Frank fan than me on these boards.

But how in the world can you make that statement about Thome, and then not apply it to Thomas in the very next sentence? :kukoo:

Because we won't be trading Rowand, 2 prospects, and overpaying Frank to be our DH. True?

nodiggity59
11-23-2005, 04:15 PM
Jjav, we seem to have a difference of OPINION on what constitutes a good baseball team. You seem to like power more, I seem to like speed and Defense more.

Why do you have to make things personal by saying that I am "making things up?"

But do you deny the Sox's home run power as being their primary offensive asset last season?

miker
11-23-2005, 04:15 PM
How did Carl Evertt fit into Ozzieball????

He was a misfit...and he did make some key contributions through the year, IIRC.

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:16 PM
:o: Dude. That was harsh.

http://worldoflongmire.com/dailycomment/count_dookula.jpg
"I would never have spoken such heresy."

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/daver/darth.jpg

"Why are you here, Dooku?"

In all seriousness, it's a shame that Thomas' won't be back now, but Williams did the right thing by bringing in Thome. It was clear that he needed to act quickly before someone else made a similar move. Kudos to KW for not standing around while the Red Sox and Mets started to retool.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:16 PM
I can't see any team overpaying for Thomas. Konerko, yes. Thomas, no way.

Everyone is going to offer Frank what he's worth- an inscentive laden contract... the numbers will be no different than what we offer.

just wondering - what scent is an inscentive-laden contract? Some sort of musk? :D:

downstairs
11-23-2005, 04:16 PM
Also remember this everyone...

The key is to buy low and sell high. After winning a World Series, as illogical and emotional as it sounds- all of our players are valued MUCH more than they're really worth. (Especially the Rowands, Credes, etc.)

batmanZoSo
11-23-2005, 04:17 PM
I hate this deal. You get an aging slugger for a guy who has probably 7-8 good to great years left. Not to mention a guy who is a fan favorite and bleeds black and white (and blue/orange no less). Unless Juan Pierre is around the corner, I vote:

:chunks

or, as otherwise, known, the overly used chunks tag, appropriately used.

What the hell happened to "grinder ball?"

I like it regardless, but boy would it be nice to get Pierre as well. Just look at this lineup:

Podsednik L
Pierre L
Dye R
Thome L
Konerko R
Pierzynski L
Iguchi R
Crede R
Uribe R

Great L/R balance unlike we've had for several years. I know I'm getting ahead of myself here with Pierre, but man we'd have to be favored to repeat with that squad.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:17 PM
But do you deny the Sox's home run power as being their primary offensive asset last season?

Yes, I do deny that it was the PRIMARY offensive asset.

We've hit roughly the same number of dingers for the past 4 seasons. Yet, for some reason, we won a ton more games this year. (Or am I "making those up", jjav?)

That seems to belie the argument that HR's won us ballgames.

JRIG
11-23-2005, 04:17 PM
I can't see any team overpaying for Thomas. Konerko, yes. Thomas, no way.

Everyone is going to offer Frank what he's worth- an inscentive laden contract... the numbers will be no different than what we offer.

This is my interpretation as well. Frank will have very similar offers for his services this off-season. If he wants to return to the White Sox, something will be done. In my opinion, this puts even more pressure on Konerko to determine what he really wants to do. Because if he doesn't act soon, I say bring back Frank and add another 1B/DH type, and let the three of them (Thome, Thomas, and ?) fight it out for at bats.

Black Sox
11-23-2005, 04:17 PM
Great deal by Kenny Williams. We find a left handed power bat and get him at 8 mil a year, that's not bad. This is exactly the kind of move I was expecting from the Sox this off-season and I'm happy to see it get done.

Good luck in Philly Aaron. Welcome aboard Thome!

CLR01
11-23-2005, 04:18 PM
Because we won't be trading Rowand, 2 prospects, and overpaying Frank to be our DH. True?


Good point. I am sure Gload would be awesome in the DH spot if Thomas can't go. There is also the small problem of Frank being a free agent.

throwsoftjax
11-23-2005, 04:18 PM
very bittersweet... hate to see Rowand go, but we are back-logged with outfielders. But power-hitting left-hand hitters don't grow on trees.

yes we may be back logged but um yeah Anderson over Rowand.... um I'll take Rowand in center... he's a much better fielded compared to what i saw from Anderson....

I'm excited to see Thome but loosing Rowand :whiner:

Tavarin
11-23-2005, 04:18 PM
Yes, I do deny that it was the PRIMARY offensive asset.

We've hit roughly the same number of dingers for the past 4 seasons. Yet, for some reason, we won a ton more games this year.

That seems to belie the argument that HR's won us ballgames.

That's because we had a lot better pitching and defense, so less runs won more games

Taliesinrk
11-23-2005, 04:18 PM
I can't see any team overpaying for Thomas. Konerko, yes. Thomas, no way.

Everyone is going to offer Frank what he's worth- an inscentive laden contract... the numbers will be no different than what we offer.


BUT WITH OTHER TEAMS FRANK WILL BE ABLE TO EARN THAT EXTRA MONEY BECAUSE HE'LL HAVE A CHANCE TO PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ON THE SOX... UNLESS THEY BENCH THOME AND KONERKO (WHO ARE EACH MAKING OVER $10 MIL/YEAR... TELL ME HOW THAT WORKS OUT..

SoxSpeed22
11-23-2005, 04:18 PM
Now, the question is: how many eggs are we putting in Anderson's basket?
Marte for Pierre seems very realistic now. The biggest question now is chemistry. Mainly, the stooges, and how they take it.
Here's to ARow in Philly.:gulp:
:worship::rowand

daveeym
11-23-2005, 04:18 PM
Ugh, I'm gonna post my response to all those who think that winning the World Series means we shouldn't make any moves. Hell, I should just sticky this at the top of the Clubhouse because I'm sure it's going to be needed many more times. Please post that. And threaten a ban for anyone that bitches in the future when their ONLY argument is, "Keep the team the same, we won with them."

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:18 PM
I can't see any team overpaying for Thomas. Konerko, yes. Thomas, no way.

Everyone is going to offer Frank what he's worth- an inscentive laden contract... the numbers will be no different than what we offer.

And Frank will take what he's offered, or his career is over. Thomas knows that his recent injury problems are a concern to most teams interested in him. He also knows that missing the bulk of last season has left teams with doubts about how productive he can be even if his foot is completely healthy. Frank played extremely well in limited time in 2005, but most GM's won't see things that way. That's just the way the business side of baseball works. Frank has been around for many years, and I think he understands that.

gobears1987
11-23-2005, 04:19 PM
Anyone think the Phils may try to move Rowand to New York for pitching?What pitching?

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 04:19 PM
Jjav, we seem to have a difference of OPINION on what constitutes a good baseball team. You seem to like power more, I seem to like speed and Defense more.

Why do you have to make things personal by saying that I am "making things up?"

I don't get it. Why is this so hard to understand? Jim Thome is replacing Carl Everett. Carl Everett brought nothing but big swings and power (when he made contact to this team). That is who Jim Thome is replacing. It's not like we replaced Pods with Manny. We replaced Carl Everett with Jim Thome. Rowand's speed and defense can be replaced by Anderson or even Chris Young if the Sox decide he is MLB ready.

I apologize if I made it too personal. That wasn't my intention, but my point was that you are saying something that isn't true. If you want to say that you don't like this trade because you like Aaron Rowand and hate that he's no longer a White Sox, that's fine. Just say that. I can understand that some people may hate this trade because of their liking of Aaron Rowand, even if the trade makes the team better. Hell, the Bulls could trade Kirk Hinrich for Tim Duncan and I'd hate it just because I'd hate to see Hinrich gone. If your reason for hating this trade is because Rowand is gone, just be honest and say that.

nodiggity59
11-23-2005, 04:19 PM
Yes, I do deny that it was the PRIMARY offensive asset.

We've hit roughly the same number of dingers for the past 4 seasons. Yet, for some reason, we won a ton more games this year.

That seems to belie the argument that HR's won us ballgames.

Ok. I think it was the pitching, not the offense that was the difference, but I see what you're saying. IMO though, except for the Pods-Tad combo, our team was basically the same offensively this year and it was our horses that made the diff.

JRIG
11-23-2005, 04:19 PM
Yes, I do deny that it was the PRIMARY offensive asset.

We've hit roughly the same number of dingers for the past 4 seasons. Yet, for some reason, we won a ton more games this year. (Or am I "making those up", jjav?)

That seems to belie the argument that HR's won us ballgames.

We scored (about) 200 runs fewer last year than in 2004. We won last year because we had the best pitching staff in baseball. Period.

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:20 PM
Please post that. And threaten a ban for anyone that bitches in the future when their ONLY argument is, "Keep the team the same, we won with them."

I agree. The days of players spending their entire careers with one team are over, and have been for many years. Even Michael Jordan wore another team's uniform. If that could happen, so could the trade of Rowand, and the departure of Thomas, which is becoming more and more likley with each passing moment. It's a shame that players have to move on, but that's the reality of professional sports.

Frankly Missing
11-23-2005, 04:21 PM
I think KW is telling Konerko thanx for the memories.

Norberto7
11-23-2005, 04:21 PM
I love Aaron Rowand's attitude, was impressed by his 2004 play, and underwhelmed by his 2005 play. From that perspective, I love the trade, but I don't know enough about the minor leaguers to say I love it overall.

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:21 PM
If your reason for hating this trade is because Rowand is gone, just be honest and say that.

I have said it. Like a zillion posts ago. My two-and-one-half pronged argument for disliking this trade is:

1. Rowand goes, and he was one of the hearts and souls of the team for the last few years.

2b. We get a base-clogging strikeout machine for an offense that had plenty of power last year.

2b. If Juan Pierre somehow comes into the mix, this deal looks better.

getonbckthr
11-23-2005, 04:21 PM
Its up to Paulie now-it would be great to see them together-not a lot of first to third opportunities there. If true I am gonna hate to see A Wall go
Imagine the home to home possiblities.

Deadguy
11-23-2005, 04:21 PM
I haven't been this excited about a pick up since Albert Belle was picked up in November of 1996. This is absolutely great. Welcome to Chicago Jim!!!!

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 04:22 PM
Now, the question is: how many eggs are we putting in Anderson's basket?
Marte for Pierre seems very realistic now. The biggest question now is chemistry. Mainly, the stooges, and how they take it.
Here's to ARow in Philly.:gulp:
:worship::rowand

Chemistry won't be an issue. It might be hard on Crede losing his best friend, but I'm sure he be fine. Thome is a great guy and great in the clubhouse. He will fit right in.

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:22 PM
BUT WITH OTHER TEAMS FRANK WILL BE ABLE TO EARN THAT EXTRA MONEY BECAUSE HE'LL HAVE A CHANCE TO PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ON THE SOX... UNLESS THEY BENCH THOME AND KONERKO (WHO ARE EACH MAKING OVER $10 MIL/YEAR... TELL ME HOW THAT WORKS OUT..

Why are you yelling?

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:22 PM
I haven't been this excited about a pick up since Albert Belle was picked up in November of 1996. This is absolutely great. Welcome to Chicago Jim!!!!

Zing! :redneck


btw: :tomatoaward:tomatoaward

downstairs
11-23-2005, 04:23 PM
And Frank will take what he's offered, or his career is over. Thomas knows that his recent injury problems are a concern to most teams interested in him. He also knows that missing the bulk of last season has left teams with doubts about how productive he can be even if his foot is completely healthy. Frank played extremely well in limited time in 2005, but most GM's won't see things that way. That's just the way the business side of baseball works. Frank has been around for many years, and I think he understands that.

Yep.

Frank WILL be on the roster next year. The only concern is if he'll actually play more than 25-50 games.

I love the guy, but that's reality.

We DO NOT want to get caught with no Konerko, no Carl and Frank sitting at home on his couch with a cast on his foot.

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 04:24 PM
2b. We get a base-clogging strikeout machine for an offense that had plenty of power last year.

What exactly was Carl Everett last year?

Taliesinrk
11-23-2005, 04:24 PM
Why are you yelling?

not yelling.. just really frustrated.. mainly cuz I really don't know if the Big Hurt'll be back.. also because this has been repeated over and over again.. as if Frank will just choose to sit on the bench for the rest of his career. If he gets similar contracts anywhere, he's still gonna wanna play. Something I'm not sure the Sox can guarentee him anymore..
I truly hope I'm wrong..

MadetoOrta
11-23-2005, 04:24 PM
Please post that. And threaten a ban for anyone that bitches in the future when their ONLY argument is, "Keep the team the same, we won with them."

I concur. Brandon McCarthy in the starting rotation next year over El Duque is a change. The White Sox were burned in '83 after fans and Hawk Harrelson convinced JR that Julio Cruz HAD to be re-signed at any cost. Bunk! And for goodness sake, if Thome is healthy this is an absolute steal. If our only option for playing centerfield was Carl Everett, I'd be skeptical. Heck, I'm convinced Anderson can put up comparable numbers to Rowand next year. Change can be good. This is GOOD CHANGE. The "keep this team together at all costs" sounds like the sheep on the northside of town.

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:25 PM
I have said it. Like a zillion posts ago. My two-and-one-half pronged argument for disliking this trade is:

1. Rowand goes, and he was one of the hearts and souls of the team for the last few years.

This is hardly a legitamite reason. Now that the trade is official, Frank is probably gone, too. I don't see anyone complaining about his not being around, in spite of the fact that he has contributed much more to the Sox during his career than Rowand.

I'm sorry. That reason just doesn't wash. Baseball is a business. Rowand knows that. Thomas knows that. Thome knows that. You're apparently the only one who doesn't.

SouthSoxFan
11-23-2005, 04:25 PM
What pitching?
The Yanks have 7 starting pitchers on the payroll

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:25 PM
What exactly was Carl Everett last year?

So now the argument is "if he's at least as good as Everett, it's a good deal?"

We still lose Rowand. What type or overall reduction in staff ERA might his defense have been responsible for last season?

PS, Everett is faster than Thome. :redneck

lettereighteen
11-23-2005, 04:25 PM
What's going to happen to Aaron's Amigos?

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:26 PM
This is hardly a legitamite reason. Now that the trade is official, Frank is probably gone, too. I don't see anyone complaining about his not being around, in spite of the fact that he has contributed much more to the Sox during his career than Rowand.

I'm sorry. That reason just doesn't wash. Baseball is a business. Rowand knows that. Thomas knows that. Thome knows that. You're apparently the only one who doesn't.

I want Frank to stay, too. I thought this thread was more suited to Thome for Rowand discussion.

Taliesinrk
11-23-2005, 04:26 PM
This is hardly a legitamite reason. Now that the trade is official, Frank is probably gone, too. I don't see anyone complaining about his not being around, in spite of the fact that he has contributed much more to the Sox during his career than Rowand.

I'm sorry. That reason just doesn't wash. Baseball is a business. Rowand knows that. Thomas knows that. Thome knows that. You're apparently the only one who doesn't.

Refer to my previous response to you..

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:26 PM
What's going to happen to Aaron's Amigos?

:hawk

"THEY GAWN!"

TheDarkGundam
11-23-2005, 04:26 PM
So who should play first base? The BEST choice is Paulie plays 1st and Thome is the DH. Ergo, there is no room for Frank. HE GONE!

Flight #24
11-23-2005, 04:26 PM
Yes, I do deny that it was the PRIMARY offensive asset.

We've hit roughly the same number of dingers for the past 4 seasons. Yet, for some reason, we won a ton more games this year. (Or am I "making those up", jjav?)

That seems to belie the argument that HR's won us ballgames.

The point is: Would you win more games by adding an improved offense to said pitching staff and D? Because I'll bet THome puts up gold glove stats at DH, and beats the crap out of Everett's #s.

So the only question is this:
Can Brian Anderson equal Aaron Rowand defensively? Reports are - yes. And D translates pretty well from AAA to the majors.

The reson that's the only question is because Aaron Rowand's offense last year wasn't a big part of the Sox success. His D and attitude - yes. But his offensive stats weren't all that high a threshold for Anderson to come close to.

Aaron - we'll miss you. The all-out attitude, the character, and the D. I wish we could've held onto you, but this trade dramatically improves the team. Jim Thome at $8M and you don't lose any pitchers or Chris Young?:bandance:

You go Kenny!

CLR01
11-23-2005, 04:27 PM
What exactly was Carl Everett last year?


Everett wasn't on the base enough to clog them. :dunno:

Iwritecode
11-23-2005, 04:27 PM
I think KW is telling Konerko thanx for the memories.

Because he went out and got a DH? :?:

The first base job is still Konerko's if he wants it...

fquaye149
11-23-2005, 04:27 PM
I don't know about that. Apparently Aaron Rowand is now Hank Aaron, so we'll see...

This is the same fan base that had people crying about the Freddy deal. Of course they're going to cry. People get attached to ballplayers and then forget that other teams don't value them as highly as we do. And yet, Kenny still got CASH and THOME for ROWAND. I am in shock. If, as reported, no minor leaguers are involved, that is a straight up steal and Kenny is on his way to another ex. of the year. But goodness...either way this is one hell of a deal.

Yes, Thome's an injury risk, but if he and Frank can even split time all year (what a platoon that would be) we would be looking at 50 HR potential. I know that might not happen and we might get crapped on by the injury bug, but holy moly what an upside! Kenny's reloading in a big way. Next step is sign Paulie and we'll be back with better pitching AND a much better lineup.

This is an amazing deal. NO PITCHING and we still get cash???

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 04:28 PM
So now the argument is "if he's at least as good as Everett, it's a good deal?"

That's not the argument at all. But you say that Thome is a base-clogging strikeout machine as if Carl Everett was Ichiro and Albert Pujols rolled into one. That isn't the case at all. Everett strikes out a lot, is slow and doesn't have nearly the power Thome has. Plus, Everett was brutal from the left side last year.

We still lose Rowand. What type or overall reduction in staff ERA might his defense have been responsible for last season?


Who knows. But why isn't it possible that Brian Anderson could have the same effect?

soltrain21
11-23-2005, 04:28 PM
So this is why Anderson and Rowand were all buddy-buddy during the playoffs. Brian knew something!

Baby Fisk
11-23-2005, 04:28 PM
the departure of Thomas, which is becoming more and more likley with each passing moment. STOP IT! :whiner:

Seriously tho, anyone who spends anytime here on a regular basis would know that "trade Rowand" rumours have been floating around for many weeks (months?). Why is this so shocking now? We got Jim Thome!

Ol' No. 2
11-23-2005, 04:28 PM
So now the argument is "if he's at least as good as Everett, it's a good deal?"

We still lose Rowand. What type or overall reduction in staff ERA might his defense have been responsible for last season?

PS, Everett is faster than Thome. :redneckNo. The argument is that he's much, much BETTER than Everett. And we can get that improvement by replacing Rowand with Anderson, which is a wash defensively and probably a gain offensively. What part of this is bad?:?:

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:28 PM
Because he went out and got a DH? :?:

The first base job is still Konerko's if he wants it...

Exactly. Frank is the one who's gone, not Konerko.

DaleJRFan
11-23-2005, 04:28 PM
What's going to happen to Aaron's Amigos?

Move to Phillie.

As a big Rowand fan, I think this deal sucks. :angry: I guess Brian Andeson is the starting CF on opening day??? Oh well. I'll move on with my life and pick a new favorite Sox player. Maybe Ross Gload.

duke of dorwood
11-23-2005, 04:28 PM
I love Aaron's game-but he was not clutch most of time at bat

lettereighteen
11-23-2005, 04:28 PM
:hawk

"THEY GAWN!"

:rolling::rolling::rolling:

Iwritecode
11-23-2005, 04:29 PM
The Yanks have 7 starting pitchers on the payroll

How many are really worth anything?

Flight #24
11-23-2005, 04:29 PM
This is hardly a legitamite reason. Now that the trade is official, Frank is probably gone, too. I don't see anyone complaining about his not being around, in spite of the fact that he has contributed much more to the Sox during his career than Rowand.

I'm sorry. That reason just doesn't wash. Baseball is a business. Rowand knows that. Thomas knows that. Thome knows that. You're apparently the only one who doesn't.

I'm complaining. I'm just about weeping at the prospect. But I understand that it's part of the game and unfortunately, it makes the Sox a better team with Thome/Anderson than with Everett/Rowand and a shot at an unreliable Frank. Unreliable only because of injury, true. But unreliable all the same.


Big guy, I hope you stay and share the ABs, but if not, I understand and will always be cheering for you. You are and in my mind will alwayd be the greatest. Here's to you Frank - :gulp:

mweflen
11-23-2005, 04:29 PM
The point is: Would you win more games by adding an improved offense to said pitching staff and D? Because I'll bet THome puts up gold glove stats at DH, and beats the crap out of Everett's #s.

So the only question is this:
Can Brian Anderson equal Aaron Rowand defensively? Reports are - yes. And D translates pretty well from AAA to the majors.

The reson that's the only question is because Aaron Rowand's offense last year wasn't a big part of the Sox success. His D and attitude - yes. But his offensive stats weren't all that high a threshold for Anderson to come close to.

Aaron - we'll miss you. The all-out attitude, the character, and the D. I wish we could've held onto you, but this trade dramatically improves the team. Jim Thome at $8M and you don't lose any pitchers or Chris Young?:bandance:

You go Kenny!

OK. this is a more easonable way of putting it. IF Thome performs anywhere near his career numbers, and IF we can find an aceptable defensive /offensive substitution for Rowand in CF, THEN this move dramatically improves the team.

Those are two pretty big IF's, though.

fquaye149
11-23-2005, 04:30 PM
So now the argument is "if he's at least as good as Everett, it's a good deal?"

We still lose Rowand. What type or overall reduction in staff ERA might his defense have been responsible for last season?

PS, Everett is faster than Thome. :redneck

That's not the argument at all. You need to follow the line of reasoning.

Jjav - why even argue with him? He obviously is upset at the loss of Rowand and it's clouding his reasoning. Give him time. Let's revisit this next year when Thome's either injured or hitting .320/25/60 at all-star break.

Kogs35
11-23-2005, 04:30 PM
What's going to happen to Aaron's Amigos?

they will become andersons amigos :redneck

miker
11-23-2005, 04:30 PM
What exactly was Carl Everett last year?

Adventures in Baserunning!

TheDarkGundam
11-23-2005, 04:30 PM
What's going to happen to Aaron's Amigos?

Perhaps they will be replaced by "Thome's Homies"?

The Wimperoo
11-23-2005, 04:31 PM
I love Aaron's game-but he was not clutch most of time at bat

:?: Did you not watch last season. He was about the most clutch player on the team outside of Crede in the last month.

ChiWavDave
11-23-2005, 04:31 PM
Jim Thome Baby! If healty, A big if... The Ultimate GRINDER!!!! And Anderson will be an upgrade offensively in CF! Defensively, we shall see. Do we know how much $$ the Phillies sent our way?

Great Move Kenny... None of this Keep the family together stuff, Change or DIE!!

The best news is the other team he was really interested in was Cleveland, so Screw you Cleveland!

:bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:31 PM
they will become andersons amigos :redneck

Or Brian's brigade. :D:

Flight #24
11-23-2005, 04:32 PM
OK. this is a more easonable way of putting it. IF Thome performs anywhere near his career numbers, and IF we can find an aceptable defensive /offensive substitution for Rowand in CF, THEN this move dramatically improves the team.

Those are two pretty big IF's, though.

Defense: Brian Anderson's shown it in the minors. Not a problem.
Offense: Thome put up sick numbers for 4-7 years prior to last year. last year was a single injury with a high recovery rate, think of it like a broken leg.

pissonthecubs
11-23-2005, 04:32 PM
This is complete BS! All we hear from KW and ozzie is we want defense and speed. Well nothing like getting rid of your best defensive position player with pretty good speed, and most of all, a clubhouse leader. And lets bring in a 35 y/o with a bad elbow and bad back. Oh and never mind that he's not as big as he once was, but pay no attention to that! I hate this trade. I'm not sure what KW is thinking on this one or what he has planed next. I guess this means the begining of the Brian Anderson era in the outfield. Lets get the strikeout meter going right now for him.

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:32 PM
Perhaps they will be replaced by "Thome's Homies"?

Good one! :cool:

downstairs
11-23-2005, 04:32 PM
How many are really worth anything?

Zero.

RKMeibalane
11-23-2005, 04:33 PM
This is complete BS! All we hear from KW and ozzie is we want defense and speed. Well nothing like getting rid of your best defensive position player with pretty good speed, and most of all, a clubhouse leader. And lets bring in a 35 y/o with a bad elbow and bad back. Oh and never mind that he's not as big as he once was, but pay no attention to that! I hate this trade. I'm not sure what KW is thinking on this one or what he has planed next. I guess this means the begining of the Brian Anderson era in the outfield. Lets get the strikeout meter going right now for him.

Be quiet.

throwsoftjax
11-23-2005, 04:33 PM
OK. this is a more easonable way of putting it. IF Thome performs anywhere near his career numbers, and IF we can find an aceptable defensive /offensive substitution for Rowand in CF, THEN this move dramatically improves the team.

Those are two pretty big IF's, though.

yeah exactly IF Thome puts up good numbers and IF Anderson or whoever does a good job takin Aaron's spot then we will not have been robbed but if as someone said we get crapped on by the injury bug and whoever is playing center doesnt do a good job.... we got screwed