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View Full Version : Thome: I could play for Sox


Milw
11-21-2005, 09:53 AM
Jim Thome says he wants to be traded to an American League team in the Midwest -- specifically, either Cleveland or Chicago. So says the Philadelphia Inquirer, via ChicagoSports.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0511210261nov21,1,1477141.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

The Dude
11-21-2005, 09:59 AM
Jim Thome says he wants to be traded to an American League team in the Midwest -- specifically, either Cleveland or Chicago. So says the Philadelphia Inquirer, via ChicagoSports.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0511210261nov21,1,1477141.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

Very interesting...... Good to know he'd welcome a trade here if we need it.

mike squires
11-21-2005, 10:01 AM
Probably so he could be closer to his home in Peoria (that is if he still wants or does live in Peoria) I would rather take a pass at this guy.

The Dude
11-21-2005, 10:06 AM
Probably so he could be closer to his home in Peoria (that is if he still wants or does live in Peoria) I would rather take a pass at this guy.

Well i for one dont want to see him back with the toons. That would be just a disaster!

mrwag
11-21-2005, 10:30 AM
I'd rather see Thome in the DH spot than Carl. I think we'd be able to get higher than .250 BA outta this guy! We need another bat to suppliment Frank.

batmanZoSo
11-21-2005, 10:42 AM
Ugh, the last thing we need is to have him back in a gray shirt launching gargantuan homers into the right field seats. I'd take him just to keep him off the Indians. :D:

jdm2662
11-21-2005, 10:46 AM
I would take him for the simple reason that I do NOT want him back in the division. He is the number one Sox killer of my life time! It's bad enough facing Mike Sweeney. Even a gimpy back doesn't stop his Sox killing ways.

WestSox
11-21-2005, 10:47 AM
Well, it's nice to know that we have options, but Thome is past his prime, costs a ton of money, is hurt all of the time, and is a strikeout machine when healthy.

soxfanatlanta
11-21-2005, 10:49 AM
I'd take him just to keep him off the Indians. :D:

George, is that you? Sounds like something he would say!
:smile:

Seriously, what is JT's status? After all the injuries he has suffered, what makes anyone think that he will hold together another season? Yes, he could DH, but if Konerko leaves, then you have another hole to fill, with less $ to do it.

Perhaps as a "plan C" (resign PK A, trade for Delgado B)

Flight #24
11-21-2005, 10:55 AM
Very interesting...... Good to know he'd welcome a trade here if we need it.

Especially nice, IMO is that instead of seeing the usual "He won't accept a trade to the Sox", we're seeing guys put us on a list of places they'd like to go. Now - getting a pro like Giles to come here would be another step. I like the idea of looking at good vets who'd like to win late in their careers!

Winning breeds winning, and winning is fung!

Chicken Dinner
11-21-2005, 10:55 AM
Sure would make a great DH.

SoxFan76
11-21-2005, 10:58 AM
Thome would take the sting away a bit of Konerko can't be resigned...but I'd rather have Konerko.

And put me in the club who says we don't need a DH. I have faith in Frank this year. Of course you want a backup plan, but it's just not possible to have Frank, Konerko, and Thome on the same team.

antitwins13
11-21-2005, 10:59 AM
Sure would make a great DH.

If Thome is DH, then where does that leave "The Big Hurt"?

Tekijawa
11-21-2005, 11:07 AM
If Thome is DH, then where does that leave "The Big Hurt"?

On the DL for 130 games this year too... Seriously people, love Frank and hope they can bring him back, but those expecting him to come back and be a full time DH are just dreaming! And I'm sad to say that he days of 100 RBI are WAY behind him. If you put Frank and Thome together you may get a full season out of the DH. I'd take Thome if Philly was willing to pick up a lot of coin, and I'd bring Frank Back if he were willing to take a HUGE PAY CUT, but there are points in players careers, sad to say, where they aren't worth what they used to be. Any shot at returning to Frank's glory years are pipedreams at best (I hope one day my post will be stuck at the top of the club house when he's contending for the tripple crown).

As of RIGHT NOW, Frank shouldn't even be penciled in ANYONES line up not to mention our own.

Chicken Dinner
11-21-2005, 11:17 AM
If Thome is DH, then where does that leave "The Big Hurt"?

Unfortunately the "Big Hurt" is hurt.

The Deacon
11-21-2005, 11:27 AM
If Thome is DH, then where does that leave "The Big Hurt"?

It leaves him off the SOX. I love Frank but he weighs 270+ and has had a recurring ankle/foot problem for 2 years, that isn't a good thing, especially at his age. I dont like his chances of staying healthy. I hope he retires so I dont have to see him in another uniform.

Randar68
11-21-2005, 11:29 AM
I have faith in Frank this year.

:bong:


"Duuudue, like Joe Jackson is totally going to rise from the dead and hit .380 for the Sox this year..."

Randar68
11-21-2005, 11:32 AM
but Thome is past his prime, costs a ton of money, is hurt all of the time, and is a strikeout machine when healthy.

LOL! He also walks 100 times a year. WHo gives a rat's ass if he hits near .300 with 40 HR and 100 walks. The K's just mean he isn't grounding into DP's...

He had Tommy John surgery. How much do you think that's going to hamper a DH?

SouthSoxFan
11-21-2005, 11:32 AM
It leaves him off the SOX.
Correct, especially because Frank is not going to sign an incentive based contract where his role is backup DH and pinch-hitter

Randar68
11-21-2005, 11:33 AM
Correct, especially because Frank is not going to sign an incentive based contract where his role is backup DH and pinch-hitter

May be his only option considering his health will be an unknown going into the season, let alone Spring training

Flight #24
11-21-2005, 11:40 AM
May be his only option considering his health will be an unknown going into the season, let alone Spring training

I doubt it. A team like Minnesota will be glad to offer him a cheap/incentive deal and give him a far greater opportunity to play regularly than he'd see in Chicago behind Paulie & Thome/Delgado/etc.

Which is why I'm continuously trying the Vulcan/Jedi mind trick to get the word "Giles" into Kenny's brain!

D. TODD
11-21-2005, 11:51 AM
If Thome is DH, then where does that leave "The Big Hurt"? Unfortunately probably on the D.L. for most of the season.

KyWhiSoxFan
11-21-2005, 11:55 AM
It leaves him off the SOX. I love Frank but he weighs 270+ and has had a recurring ankle/foot problem for 2 years, that isn't a good thing, especially at his age. I dont like his chances of staying healthy. I hope he retires so I dont have to see him in another uniform.

Frank WILL be back next year on the Sox.

Will he be healthy? Don't know.
Will he play more than 100 games? Don't know.
Will he be given an opportunity? Absolutely.

Frank really has few good options other than the Sox, for two reasons: 1) It is the right thing for the organization to bring him back; He is one of their best players in history and they can pay him around $2- to $4-million to keep him around in case he is able to play at a high level. With his buyout of $3.5m, he's doing fine. For the Sox, it's not that big of a payroll risk. 2) He has the best chance to further his Hall of Fame credentials in a Sox uniform. Nothing is more pathetic than an aging player who switches teams in a last attempt to bolster his credentials. It backfires and works against them. He knows that if he can lead the team to the playoffs and maybe into the World Series, he is a lock for the Hall. At this point, that will be his overriding decision about where he will play.

Of course, it all hinges on him being healthy. But if he is healthy on the Sox, it would mean more for him than being healthy on another team.

munchman33
11-21-2005, 12:00 PM
Thome only comes to the Sox to replace Konerko. We'll have one of those guys, and whoever it is will be playing first base full time. It will have no bearing on the DH situation, which is Frank's if he's healthy enough to sign a contract by the arbitration deadline.

compy75
11-21-2005, 12:02 PM
Here's the reality right or wrong with Frank. Frank has stated on many many many occasions that he wants 500 home runs. Despite his new public sentiment, Frank is very statistically based and has stated on numerous occasions his desire and want to be enshrined in Cooperstown. Right or (mostly) wrong, Frank needs 500 home runs to get there. He knows, and all of you should know it.

For Frank to get that to that total, he needs the DH spot cleared for him. The question than becomes would Frank come back to Sox, jeopardize his career goal, his HOF credentials by becoming a part time player? I just don't see it folks. Many often times seem to overvalue a player's attachment to a team aka employer.

In terms of interest from other teams, there have been reports that Oakland, and of course Baltimore would have interest. I'd imagine Anaheim would as well. Heck, Juan Gonzalez was gift wrapped a starting spot on the tribe last year.

Flight #24
11-21-2005, 12:06 PM
Thome only comes to the Sox to replace Konerko. We'll have one of those guys, and whoever it is will be playing first base full time. It will have no bearing on the DH situation, which is Frank's if he's healthy enough to sign a contract by the arbitration deadline.

It's an interesting conundrum. There are reports both that the Sox see Thome/Delgado as a backup plan for not resigning Paulie, and that they want a power LH bat in addition to resigning Paulie. I don't see any power LH bats availalbe outside of the aforementioned Thome/Delgado (& Helton).

Which is it?

voodoochile
11-21-2005, 12:08 PM
On the DL for 130 games this year too... Seriously people, love Frank and hope they can bring him back, but those expecting him to come back and be a full time DH are just dreaming! And I'm sad to say that he days of 100 RBI are WAY behind him. If you put Frank and Thome together you may get a full season out of the DH. I'd take Thome if Philly was willing to pick up a lot of coin, and I'd bring Frank Back if he were willing to take a HUGE PAY CUT, but there are points in players careers, sad to say, where they aren't worth what they used to be. Any shot at returning to Frank's glory years are pipedreams at best (I hope one day my post will be stuck at the top of the club house when he's contending for the tripple crown).

As of RIGHT NOW, Frank shouldn't even be penciled in ANYONES line up not to mention our own.

That all depends on his ankle. If the reports of bone growth and not trying to rush back like he did last year are correct, Frank could easily have 2-3 more 140 game years in him, IF they can find the proper treatment for his ankle and keep him healthy.

No guarantees on that of course, but if the doctors clear him to play and don't expect major problems in the future then Hurt can still be as productive as anyone - witness his 12 HR in 20 games or whatever this past season.

Those aren't numbers any team would turn down if the player in question can stay healthy.

SoxFan76
11-21-2005, 12:20 PM
That all depends on his ankle. If the reports of bone growth and not trying to rush back like he did last year are correct, Frank could easily have 2-3 more 140 game years in him, IF they can find the proper treatment for his ankle and keep him healthy.

No guarantees on that of course, but if the doctors clear him to play and don't expect major problems in the future then Hurt can still be as productive as anyone - witness his 12 HR in 20 games or whatever this past season.

Those aren't numbers any team would turn down if the player in question can stay healthy.

Yeah, he was rushed back this season, and he paid for it. If he doesn't start opening day '06, so be it. I think if he allows his ankle to fully heal he can be a productive player. He hit 12 home runs this season on one leg. He drove in 20-something runs on 1 leg.

Randar68
11-21-2005, 12:27 PM
Thome only comes to the Sox to replace Konerko. We'll have one of those guys, and whoever it is will be playing first base full time. It will have no bearing on the DH situation, which is Frank's if he's healthy enough to sign a contract by the arbitration deadline.

You're willing to risk the Sox' entire 2006 season on Frank's ankle which won't be even remotely evaluated until Spring Training?

Glad you're not the GM.

The Deacon
11-21-2005, 12:34 PM
You're willing to risk the Sox' entire 2006 season on Frank's ankle which won't be even remotely evaluated until Spring Training?

Glad you're not the GM.


I couldn't agree with this more. The reality (I hope) is that Kenny Williams has to make calculated decisions. He cannot let sentiment get in the way or constructing the best baseball team possible.
I dont think a decision will be made on Frank until at LEAST late January. By that time, most of our team will be in place already.

Chicken Dinner
11-21-2005, 12:36 PM
Yeah, he was rushed back this season, and he paid for it. If he doesn't start opening day '06, so be it. I think if he allows his ankle to fully heal he can be a productive player. He hit 12 home runs this season on one leg. He drove in 20-something runs on 1 leg.

Rushed back, give me a break. (no pun intended)

Mickster
11-21-2005, 12:38 PM
I dont think a decision will be made on Frank until at LEAST late January. By that time, most of our team will be in place already.

They will have to make a decision before January 8 or not be able to re-sign him until after May 1.

munchman33
11-21-2005, 12:41 PM
You're willing to risk the Sox' entire 2006 season on Frank's ankle which won't be even remotely evaluated until Spring Training?

Glad you're not the GM.

The entire season will not depend on the DH spot. And we have plenty of in-house options, like Brian Anderson and Joe Borchard (who has to make the team anyways) to take at-bats in case of a problem. As well as the possibility of a midseason acquisition if something goes wrong.

But seriously. It's not like we had a stellar DH last year anyways. And Frank has the kind of upside to actually make this team better next year.

Randar68
11-21-2005, 12:49 PM
The entire season will not depend on the DH spot. And we have plenty of in-house options, like Brian Anderson and Joe Borchard (who has to make the team anyways) to take at-bats in case of a problem. As well as the possibility of a midseason acquisition if something goes wrong.

But seriously. It's not like we had a stellar DH last year anyways. And Frank has the kind of upside to actually make this team better next year.

Those are worse options than Carl Everett, which was a mediocre option in the first place. You're talking about a #3 hitter, not a #7 hitter, here. You can't plug unknowns into that slot and outside of possibly Iguchi, nobody else on this team could even remotely handle that job on regular basis.

Yes, it absolutely is banking your season on Frank, and that is irresponsible to say the least. I know Kenny isn't thinking that way, so your point is moot anyhow.

voodoochile
11-21-2005, 12:50 PM
Rushed back, give me a break. (no pun intended)

I would like to hear why you disagree with that statement. Frank himself said his ankle never felt 100% right and that he went ahead and played on it because he thought it was good enough. He was obviously wrong.

Still, not to be confusing, I don't think the Sox should count on Frank either. Sign Konerko if possible and get a DH to bat behind/ahead of him and if Frank comes back, it's gravy...

Flight #24
11-21-2005, 01:17 PM
They will have to make a decision before January 8 or not be able to re-sign him until after May 1.

12/7 in the arb deadline. They need to be pretty sure he's healthy, or he needs to be willing to take a very low base by then. And they need to have some understanding on what the Sox are at lest going to try and do re: an alternate at DH. I would guess that if Frank agrees to a minimal contract by 12/7 to stay and then they go trade for a Thome/Delgado, the Big man won't be that happy.

Unregistered
11-21-2005, 01:26 PM
Seeing Frank coming to bat in another team's jersey is gonna be like finding out your parents are getting a divorce. I'm not ready for it to happen, but I gotta deal with the fact that it might. I'm holding out hope that both sides are big enough fans of each other to want to make it work. You know, for the kids. :smile:

munchman33
11-21-2005, 01:35 PM
Those are worse options than Carl Everett, which was a mediocre option in the first place. You're talking about a #3 hitter, not a #7 hitter, here. You can't plug unknowns into that slot and outside of possibly Iguchi, nobody else on this team could even remotely handle that job on regular basis.

Yes, it absolutely is banking your season on Frank, and that is irresponsible to say the least. I know Kenny isn't thinking that way, so your point is moot anyhow.

This team is built on pitching. It will live and die on pitching.

And honestly, what do you expect? Konerko and another bat from the Thome/Delgado/Helton mix? That isn't going to happen. Not without trading away parts of the pitching staff to make budget. And that's just plain ludacris, given that this staff carried us all year and in the playoffs.

Frank Thomas represents our best option for above average production at DH. But it isn't as dire a position as you make it out to be. Don't worry, they'll prove you wrong again next year.

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2005, 01:44 PM
12/7 in the arb deadline. They need to be pretty sure he's healthy, or he needs to be willing to take a very low base by then. And they need to have some understanding on what the Sox are at lest going to try and do re: an alternate at DH. I would guess that if Frank agrees to a minimal contract by 12/7 to stay and then they go trade for a Thome/Delgado, the Big man won't be that happy.I don't think Frank would get a better situation anywhere else. There are other teams interested, but I don't see any team signing him as their sole DH. It's just too risky. The best he's going to get is a chance to show what he can do and try to force his way into the everyday lineup by being productive.

To reiterate what I've said before, if the Sox re-sign PK and acquire Delgado and Frank hits so well that they can't keep him out of the lineup and someone else spends more time on the bench, that would be a GOOD thing.

KyWhiSoxFan
11-21-2005, 01:49 PM
I couldn't agree with this more. The reality (I hope) is that Kenny Williams has to make calculated decisions. He cannot let sentiment get in the way or constructing the best baseball team possible.
I dont think a decision will be made on Frank until at LEAST late January. By that time, most of our team will be in place already.

They will bring Frank back, whether it is before January or not does not matter. What they need to do is get a fourth outfielder who can DH, so they can give the outfielders some days off and also DH them on occasion. That would allow them to work in Brian Anderson without all the pressure of being a starter (I'm going to assume we'll trade Rowand or there will be an outfield spot open somehow). That's why Brian Giles makes a lot of sense to the Sox.

KW will get another DH possibility, just like they had this year with Crazy Carl and Frank sharing the DH role.

Randar68
11-21-2005, 01:51 PM
This team is built on pitching. It will live and die on pitching.

And honestly, what do you expect? Konerko and another bat from the Thome/Delgado/Helton mix? That isn't going to happen. Not without trading away parts of the pitching staff to make budget. And that's just plain ludacris, given that this staff carried us all year and in the playoffs.

Frank Thomas represents our best option for above average production at DH. But it isn't as dire a position as you make it out to be. Don't worry, they'll prove you wrong again next year.

It is not beyond the realm of reason and the math that shows it as such has been done ad infinitum in various threads. If the payroll is expected around 85 million (some expect it higher), it is well within reason that they resign Pauly and add a 10 million a year guy in addition, without dumping anyone of note.

Flight #24
11-21-2005, 01:55 PM
I don't think Frank would get a better situation anywhere else. There are other teams interested, but I don't see any team signing him as their sole DH. It's just too risky. The best he's going to get is a chance to show what he can do and try to force his way into the everyday lineup by being productive.

To reiterate what I've said before, if the Sox re-sign PK and acquire Delgado and Frank hits so well that they can't keep him out of the lineup and someone else spends more time on the bench, that would be a GOOD thing.

No one's going to promise him more time, but other teams will have significantly less blocking him from that. The Twins for example. Is Frank going to see a better shot at stealing ABs from Delgado or Jason Kubel/FatBoy Lecroy? That's just an example.

And I still think that while theoretically you could go out and sign Delgado, Thomas, AND Thome and have them battle it out for DH and it's good for the team, it just doesn't work that way in real life. Neither Thome/Delgado is going to be happy losing ABs to Frank. You end up benching a $10M+ hitter who's still performing at a high level or benching your franchise superstar who took a significant paycut to stay and try to get to 500HR.

And that ignores the practical aspects of it such as: If Thome/Delgado are hitting, how does Frank get any ABs to show whether or not "he's back"? 2x/week aren't going to do much in terms of getting him on stroke.

Taliesinrk
11-21-2005, 03:44 PM
That all depends on his ankle. If the reports of bone growth and not trying to rush back like he did last year are correct, Frank could easily have 2-3 more 140 game years in him, IF they can find the proper treatment for his ankle and keep him healthy.

No guarantees on that of course, but if the doctors clear him to play and don't expect major problems in the future then Hurt can still be as productive as anyone - witness his 12 HR in 20 games or whatever this past season.

Those aren't numbers any team would turn down if the player in question can stay healthy.

Thank you.. at least someone realizes that he's not quite paralyzed yet. Seriously people, look at the numbers he put up this year. The HR's/AB or better yet HR/Hit were ridiculous. That just doesn't happen as a fluke or to a guy who apparently is 65 years old and on his death bed. As Frank and the Sox said in June, he was rushed back.. not playing 100% and stressing the other parts of his ankle because his bone wasn't fully healed. He's not 43 and done, he's 37 w/ potential (notice some were saying he was done in 2000, as well).

Rushed back, give me a break. (no pun intended)

*****.. you're out of your mind. Unless you're Dr. Weil and can give us some more thorough insight, stating that everything said last year was wrong..

Jjav829
11-21-2005, 03:55 PM
Thank you.. at least someone realizes that he's not quite paralyzed yet. Seriously people, look at the numbers he put up this year. The HR's/AB or better yet HR/Hit were ridiculous. That just doesn't happen as a fluke or to a guy who apparently is 65 years old and on his death bed. As Frank and the Sox said in June, he was rushed back.. not playing 100% and stressing the other parts of his ankle because his bone wasn't fully healed. He's not 43 and done, he's 37 w/ potential (notice some were saying he was done in 2000, as well).


No one is arguing that Frank can't still produce if he is healthy. That italicized part is what is critical. Can he remain healthy? No one knows. In the past 2 seasons combined Frank has had as many at-bats as some players have in half of one season. That's not good, particularly for a 37-year-old who weighs as much as Frank does. If he comes back he will be our #3 hitter. That means we're relying on him to be a major contributor to the team. If he goes down again, we're in trouble. Sorry, Brian Anderson might be a good player in time, but if we're relying on Anderson as our #3 hitter then we are in some trouble.

That's why a lot of people would rather see a more reliable DH brought in, be it Delgado or Thome (granted Thome isn't exactly a sure thing either).

munchman33
11-21-2005, 04:00 PM
No one is arguing that Frank can't still produce if he is healthy. That italicized part is what is critical. Can he remain healthy? No one knows. In the past 2 seasons combined Frank has had as many at-bats as some players have in half of one season. That's not good, particularly for a 37-year-old who weighs as much as Frank does. If he comes back he will be our #3 hitter. That means we're relying on him to be a major contributor to the team. If he goes down again, we're in trouble. Sorry, Brian Anderson might be a good player in time, but if we're relying on Anderson as our #3 hitter then we are in some trouble.

That's why a lot of people would rather see a more reliable DH brought in, be it Delgado or Thome (granted Thome isn't exactly a sure thing either).

Jermaine Dye was adequate in the 3-hole. We won a world series with him in the 3-hole. You can't argue with that.

Chicken Dinner
11-21-2005, 04:09 PM
Thank you.. at least someone realizes that he's not quite paralyzed yet. Seriously people, look at the numbers he put up this year. The HR's/AB or better yet HR/Hit were ridiculous. That just doesn't happen as a fluke or to a guy who apparently is 65 years old and on his death bed. As Frank and the Sox said in June, he was rushed back.. not playing 100% and stressing the other parts of his ankle because his bone wasn't fully healed. He's not 43 and done, he's 37 w/ potential (notice some were saying he was done in 2000, as well).



*****.. you're out of your mind. Unless you're Dr. Weil and can give us some more thorough insight, stating that everything said last year was wrong..

Frank had his surgery on October 6th, 2004. He came off the DL on May 30th, 2005. That's almost 8 months. He was back on the DL in July after a 105 AB's. What makes you think that he is healing any better now then before. *****!

Fake Chet Lemon
11-21-2005, 04:11 PM
We can't count on Frank, it's like counting on Kerry Wood. It pains me to say that, I want nothing more than Frank back as a full time DH. But it's a huge gamble to count on him, make other plans and if he is healthy then Kenny has options.

Ol' No. 2
11-21-2005, 04:13 PM
Frank had his surgery on October 6th, 2004. He came off the DL on May 30th, 2005. That's almost 8 months. He was back on the DL in July after a 105 AB's. What makes you think that he is healing any better now then before. *****!Where did you say you get your medical degree from? I must have missed that.

Deuce
11-21-2005, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Chicken Dinner
Frank had his surgery on October 6th, 2004. He came off the DL on May 30th, 2005. That's almost 8 months. He was back on the DL in July after a 105 AB's. What makes you think that he is healing any better now then before. *****!
Where did you say you get your medical degree from?Perdue University! :redneck

Randar68
11-21-2005, 04:23 PM
[/i]
Perdue University! :redneck

*****! That one was classic. Well done. POTW!

HotelWhiteSox
11-21-2005, 04:25 PM
Too much Big Hurt negativity in this thread! I doubt many of you know any more than me, Frank knows if he is healthy or not, and I'm sure the Sox would do their best to be sure if he is or not before signing him. He came back with a hurt leg this year, not even being able to run the bases, an he was instant offense, I know he devoted to the HR, but even I, a huge fan, was amazed at the rate he was jackin them

kaufsox
11-21-2005, 04:40 PM
Well, it's nice to know that we have options, but Thome is past his prime, costs a ton of money, is hurt all of the time, and is a strikeout machine when healthy.

While I agree that he is a strikeout machine, I don't think he is past his prime and he was only injured for a long duration last year. He did miss 19 games in 2004, but still managed 42 HR, 105 RBI and a decent .274 average. I do recall our WS MVP was an injury risk. I'd be willing to roll the dice, or at least hear what Philly wants for him. My guess is the price is a little high.

roustabout
11-21-2005, 04:45 PM
lol..i'm not sure i want my #4 fantasy hitter in that big park..lol

NorthSideSox72
11-21-2005, 04:47 PM
I think that KW needs to have multiple Docs do serious evaluations of Big Frank's ankle BEFORE 12/7. If there is a good chance Frank is back, then we can concentrate on PK at 1B, or getting Thome to replace him. If there is not a good chance, though I'd hate to see this, I think you need to go get Thome for DH, re-sign PK if you can, and make a low-base, high-incentive deal to Frank. If he wants it and plays his way on, either because of performance or injuries above him or PK leaving, then great. If not, well, he's gotta go.

But that eval is key. If Frank's one Doc is being cagey about it in the slightest, or if they won't let him see a second Doc, or if there is anything here that smells like last year's Maggs scenario, then you have to push away from the table and move on without the Big Hurt.

PKalltheway
11-21-2005, 04:50 PM
If Frank Thomas were to retire right now, he would go to the Hall of Fame. Of course it would not be on the first ballot, but he would still make it in nevertheless. He has better numbers than Ralph Kiner and he's in. If you were to compile a list of the best hitters of the 1990's, not just power hitters but hitters, Frank Thomas was one of the best, if not the best (mostly because he wasn't on steroids). Also, just when everybody thought that Frank Thomas was through after the 1999 season when he hit just fifteen homers and drove in 77, Thomas exploded in 2000 with a .328 average, and a career best 43 homers and 143 RBI's en route to helping the White Sox win their first division title in seven years. He would go on to produce one more forty home run season (42 in 2003). I am not in any way inferring that Thomas will have one more good season. His best days are behind him. I am just stating the fact that Thomas' numbers have been further boosted by a home run surge late in his career. If Jeff Bagwell gets into the Hall, Frank should too and they both will.

:hurt

Jenks4Pres
11-21-2005, 04:52 PM
Thome for Widger!!!!!!?????????:dtroll:

Jjav829
11-21-2005, 05:08 PM
Thome for Widger!!!!!!?????????:dtroll:

No way. We don't want to get ripped off. If they eat all of Thome's contract they can have Timo....




Maybe. :?:

nodiggity59
11-21-2005, 05:42 PM
I'm all about Thome. More than any other big player, Thome has to change cities and his team knows it. If we take all of the deal I'd only offer Borchard for Thome. If the Phils take 1/3 to 1/2 of the deal, I'd be willing to lose:

1. Rowand or Anderson
or
2. Marte, El Duque, Vizcaino, or Hermie
and
3. 1 high prospect or 2 mids

I doubt the Phils would want both 1 and 2, but those are the pieces I would use. I think there's a deal there for a solid major leaguer and a prospect (s) besides Young.

hose
11-21-2005, 05:48 PM
[/i]
Perdue University! :redneck

That's gold Deuce ,gold. :rolling:

buehrle4cy05
11-21-2005, 05:56 PM
I think Thome comes in as a third option. 1 is Konerko, 2 is Delgado, 3 is Thome, and ONLY IF Philly picks up a good portion of that contract.

ChiSoxIn06
11-21-2005, 06:34 PM
why is everyone bashing thome? yes he is older and yes he has had his injuries but he would be playing DH and maybe a little 1B. Its not like he would be putting he body at risk for 9 innings 6 days a week...the sox could use thomas (if he is healthy) at DH and Thome at first a few days a week and have thome DH on thomas' days off...and when thome isnt playing first u can have gload play 1B (he was konerkos back up last year wasnt he?) if both thomas and thome are healthy can u imagine the lineup the sox could put out?

pissonthecubs
11-21-2005, 08:38 PM
Very interesting...... Good to know he'd welcome a trade here if we need it.

We need a guy here on the Sox like Thome? A guy ready to break down, oh wait, he did last year, and with some errr, suspicions of juicing. Yeah, I don't think so.

ShoelessJoeS
11-21-2005, 08:43 PM
Of course Thome is willing to come to Chicago. I mean after all, we are the World Champions. If Philly eats a BIG portion of his big contract, I think he'd be a great presence in the middle of the Sox lineup...that is until Frank returns.

Lip Man 1
11-21-2005, 09:35 PM
Piss:

I'm curious where Thome was 'suspected' of doing anything illegal. Did you read something someplace?

Lip

voodoochile
11-22-2005, 12:22 AM
Frank had his surgery on October 6th, 2004. He came off the DL on May 30th, 2005. That's almost 8 months. He was back on the DL in July after a 105 AB's. What makes you think that he is healing any better now then before. *****!

Well, first off he didn't need surgery this time. Next, he has had an extra 3 months of rehab under his belt this year. Finally, the break was much more minor this time and it is healing on it's own according to the doctors. In fact, Frank is supposedly ahead of schedule for this point in time. The point is he can take almost a year to heal this time and still come back at the same time as last year and he should heal faster becaue he didn't need surgery in the first place.

So, unless you can add more than your speculation and rampant generalization why should we believe you more than the people who are actually working on/with him?

voodoochile
11-22-2005, 12:26 AM
Piss:

I'm curious where Thome was 'suspected' of doing anything illegal. Did you read something someplace?

Lip

I think it's more the smoke and fire thing. He "happened" to have a bad injury year and a big drop off in numbers right after they started catching the cheaters and getting more serious about steroid testing.

The thought has crossed my mind too, though I haven't seen him linked to it so far in anything other than idle speculation.

Flight #24
11-22-2005, 12:31 AM
I think it's more the smoke and fire thing. He "happened" to have a bad injury year and a big drop off in numbers right after they started catching the cheaters and getting more serious about steroid testing.

The thought has crossed my mind too, though I haven't seen him linked to it so far in anything other than idle speculation.

The difference being that he had surgery in-season for a non-roid related issue. Unless TJ surgery is somehow linked to PEDs. So there's a rational reason for his decline that doesn't involve Barry Bonds rubbing unknown crap on him.

Deadguy
11-22-2005, 01:23 AM
Enough with the Thomas vs. Thome nonsense. Thome wouldn't come here to DH. Thome is only an option if Konerko signs elsewhere. If we tie up a lot of money in Konerko, we will not be able to afford Thome.

He is owed 43 million over 3 years. That's over 14 million a year. Maggie is the only player to make 14 million dollars in a White Sox uniform, and that was part of a back loaded contract.

Even if the Phillies were to eat half of the contract, that's still 3 year, 21.5 million we are commiting to him. We aren't going to pay that much for a DH if Konerko is back in the fold. We aren't going to pay that much for a DH if Konerko isn't back in the fold. Thome is only an option as a 1B.

Deadguy
11-22-2005, 01:41 AM
Probably so he could be closer to his home in Peoria (that is if he still wants or does live in Peoria) I would rather take a pass at this guy.

Thome doesn't live in Peoria anymore. He occasionally comes back and does cameos in very cheesy commercials for local businesses, or for autograph sessions. The Peoria factor has no bearing on his willingness to play with the Sox, IMO.

He went to Limestone, and entered ICC as a 165 lb SS, and hasn't looked back since signing with the Toons.

I'd love to see him in a White Sox uniform, but he is a huge risk at this point, even if the Phillies were to pick up a large chunk of his contract. The number of years left is a bigger concern than the overall money he is guaranteed. I mean, B-More took on Sosa, he fell flat on his face, but he is done and gone now. If Thome falls flat on his face, we're stuck with him for at least 2 years, before we might have to outright release him.

getonbckthr
11-22-2005, 02:12 AM
George, is that you? Sounds like something he would say!
:smile:

Seriously, what is JT's status? After all the injuries he has suffered, what makes anyone think that he will hold together another season? Yes, he could DH, but if Konerko leaves, then you have another hole to fill, with less $ to do it.

Perhaps as a "plan C" (resign PK A, trade for Delgado B)

Thome's contract should be covered from not having Thomas or Everett's contracts.

IlliniSox4Life
11-22-2005, 02:54 AM
I think everyone who is saying Frank won't be back at full strength needs to calm down and realize that he is going to be the most rested guy on the team. It's a positive!

Jjav829
11-22-2005, 02:56 AM
Enough with the Thomas vs. Thome nonsense. Thome wouldn't come here to DH. Thome is only an option if Konerko signs elsewhere. If we tie up a lot of money in Konerko, we will not be able to afford Thome.

He is owed 43 million over 3 years. That's over 14 million a year. Maggie is the only player to make 14 million dollars in a White Sox uniform, and that was part of a back loaded contract.

Even if the Phillies were to eat half of the contract, that's still 3 year, 21.5 million we are commiting to him. We aren't going to pay that much for a DH if Konerko is back in the fold. We aren't going to pay that much for a DH if Konerko isn't back in the fold. Thome is only an option as a 1B.

So, are you close friends with Jim Thome or something? How exactly do you know he wouldn't come here to DH? What better situation is there for him than to come back to the state where he was born, and the defending World Champions, to DH and play 1B once a week or so?

And it seems to me that we have been paying that much for a DH the past few years. So how is $7 million a year - which really isn't that much for a player who can produce like Thome - for a DH unreasonable? Payroll is going to rise with all the added revenue from the playoffs and the large increase in season ticket sales.

TheOldRoman
11-22-2005, 05:10 AM
We can't count on Frank, it's like counting on Kerry Wood. It pains me to say that, I want nothing more than Frank back as a full time DH. But it's a huge gamble to count on him, make other plans and if he is healthy then Kenny has options.
You should be banned for besmerching the Big Hurt like that!
This is NOTHING like relying on the Wood. How many MVPs did Wood win? Is he a lock for the HOF? Is he the greatest of his generation? Even at 50% health last year, Thomas still put up monster power numbers. He was on one foot, swinging for the fences every at bat, and he still was on pace for 50 homers over 162 games. If Frank is healthy (yes, it's a big IF), he will dominate again.
Wood is a mediocre pitcher who made a career of hype based on one 20 strikeout performance. He is contantly on the DL, off the DL, skipping starts, pitching simulated games, etc. Besides never being half the player Frank is now, Wood, IMO, is a bigger injury risk currently than Frank. If Frank's foot can support him for an entire season, he should be fine. He hasn't suffered too many injuries. Wood, however, goes down ever year.

The only similarities is that they both play in Chicago and they have both been injured at some point. When Frank is healthy, he is one of the best in the game. When Wood is healthy, he still sucks.

caulfield12
11-22-2005, 07:49 AM
LeCroy is no longer with the Twins.

oeo
11-22-2005, 08:16 AM
Enough with the Thomas vs. Thome nonsense. Thome wouldn't come here to DH. Thome is only an option if Konerko signs elsewhere. If we tie up a lot of money in Konerko, we will not be able to afford Thome.

He is owed 43 million over 3 years. That's over 14 million a year. Maggie is the only player to make 14 million dollars in a White Sox uniform, and that was part of a back loaded contract.

Even if the Phillies were to eat half of the contract, that's still 3 year, 21.5 million we are commiting to him. We aren't going to pay that much for a DH if Konerko is back in the fold. We aren't going to pay that much for a DH if Konerko isn't back in the fold. Thome is only an option as a 1B.

He says he wants to go to an AL team, preferably the Sox or Indians. Why does he want to go to an AL team? If he only wanted a first baseman job, wouldn't the NL suffice?

I think Thome will play whatever position he is told to play if he wants to come here and win.

Deadguy
11-22-2005, 01:03 PM
So, are you close friends with Jim Thome or something? How exactly do you know he wouldn't come here to DH?

Huh? And where did I say he wouldn't agree to do that? The White Sox aren't going to pay that much for a DH if Konerko is brought back.

What better situation is there for him than to come back to the state where he was born

ROFL

NorthSideSox72
11-22-2005, 02:12 PM
The White Sox aren't going to pay that much for a DH if Konerko is brought back.


I have to disagree. I think this team would very much be interested in upgrading the DH slot from Everett (who was, I think, about 3.5M last year) to a guy like Thome, who has shown he can hit significantly better than Everett, for more power, and against righties. If the Phils take at least half his contract (which seems likely thus far), then we only pay about $6M to $8M a year for Thome, if my math is right.

Why would you not do that, if the trade was right?

Randar68
11-22-2005, 02:14 PM
I have to disagree. I think this team would very much be interested in upgrading the DH slot from Everett (who was, I think, about 3.5M last year) to a guy like Thome, who has shown he can hit significantly better than Everett, for more power, and against righties. If the Phils take at least half his contract (which seems likely thus far), then we only pay about $6M to $8M a year for Thome, if my math is right.

Why would you not do that, if the trade was right?

I think we should consider that when we start pulling BMac/Jose out of the deal we would be expected to eat more of that salary...

NorthSideSox72
11-22-2005, 02:19 PM
I think we should consider that when we start pulling BMac/Jose out of the deal we would be expected to eat more of that salary...

Probably, on a relative basis. But as noted previously, given that Philly really does need to move Thome, and given Thome's NTC and very limited desired teams, I think Philly will end up eating half his contract (or close) in any case.

Flight #24
11-22-2005, 02:20 PM
I think we should consider that when we start pulling BMac/Jose out of the deal we would be expected to eat more of that salary...

But only for 3 years, and if needed, you can probably spin Thome to another team in 1-2yrs. That's a nice timeframe for this team considering the likely revenue bump they should experience over the next 1-2 years at least. Take advantage of that while you can. BoSox owner John henry posted a great comment on SOSH that applies here: regarding the rumored trade for Larry Bigbie that was killed, he said his preference was always to do the deal where they took on cash rather than giving up prospects.

Jjav829
11-22-2005, 03:07 PM
Huh? And where did I say he wouldn't agree to do that? The White Sox aren't going to pay that much for a DH if Konerko is brought back.

:?:You don't even remember what you said?

Enough with the Thomas vs. Thome nonsense. Thome wouldn't come here to DH.

ROFL

What's so funny? The guy has admitted he would rather come back to the Midwest where he was born and currently lives.

Once again....:?:

Taliesinrk
11-22-2005, 05:25 PM
Frank had his surgery on October 6th, 2004. He came off the DL on May 30th, 2005. That's almost 8 months. He was back on the DL in July after a 105 AB's. What makes you think that he is healing any better now then before. *****!

Well I would like to GYAFB... but I can't on this one.. It is a bit difficult for me to respond to this as I'm just checking it, because it seems as though everyone else has made very good arguments that I agree with.

I do encourage you, however, to read my post again. I said ***** in response to a poster who acted as if Frank wasn't rushed back from a potentially career-ending injury. I posted this because, albeit, I guessed that, this guy has not a clue as to what couse of treatment, stress, or surgery that Frank had/needed/will need. I merely posted this because I would bet there's a pretty damn high probability that this guy has no ****ing idea what he's talking about. If he is the physician who treated Frank (or has contact w/ Frank or anyone who is truly familiar with Frank's injury) then I stand corrected and I look like the jackass. However, most likely in this case, the ignorant poster essentially said that Frank and his body couldn't handle playing baseball any longer like he has in the past. I merely was asking whether or not he had any ****ing idea as to what he was talking about.
I just don't think that most on here can objectively sit here and say that Frank's done and will never put up good numbers again. He may not (I'm sincerely hoping I'm wrong here), but the fact remains that people don't know.. I just would ask some to not sit and make ridiculous posts implying Frank's done for good or he'll never contribute like he has in the past w/o knowing the facts. Speculate all you want.. but some look pretty damn ignorant/ stupid in doing so.

P.S. I somewhat apologize.. I have to admit that the whole reason I love the Sox and baseball stem from Frank being the face of both for me. I grew up with him, and don't know any different.. It'll be a very, very sad day when he's gone. I'm just hoping that when he is gone, it's because he wants to sit at home more.. not because he's putting on another uniform.

gehrtsox7
11-22-2005, 11:44 PM
How did Thome play this last year? I dont trust anyone who magically sucked since the league cracked down on steroids.

Flight #24
11-22-2005, 11:49 PM
How did Thome play this last year? I dont trust anyone who magically sucked since the league cracked down on steroids.

Horrible, but he had a torn elbow tendon. It wasn't a magical, unexplainable decline.

shes
11-23-2005, 12:29 AM
Rowand + Contreras for Thome at half-salary seems too good to pass up.

Contreras looks to be in his mid-30s. I doubt he'll ever pitch as well as he did in the second half this year and his trade value will never be higher. Losing Rowand isn't a huge loss since we have a superfluity of stud OFs in our system. With Philly paying about half Thome's salary we'd actually be gaining a little cash.

And yet, I think I would still rather keep this rotation intact. If Rowand is to be traded, I'd rather see him go for another OF.

NWSox
11-23-2005, 12:41 AM
How did Thome play this last year? I dont trust anyone who magically sucked since the league cracked down on steroids.

I don't have anything to go on, but I have my suspicions as well. Everyone who produced big HR totals in the late 90s is suspect (big = 50+).

NorthSideSox72
11-23-2005, 10:02 AM
Rowand + Contreras for Thome at half-salary seems too good to pass up.

Contreras looks to be in his mid-30s. I doubt he'll ever pitch as well as he did in the second half this year and his trade value will never be higher. Losing Rowand isn't a huge loss since we have a superfluity of stud OFs in our system. With Philly paying about half Thome's salary we'd actually be gaining a little cash.

And yet, I think I would still rather keep this rotation intact. If Rowand is to be traded, I'd rather see him go for another OF.

We don't need to trade Contreras to get Thome. Philly, as has been pointed out, is over the barrel. They have to move Thome, given their new stud at 1B. Thome has an NTC, and has pretty much said it has to be an AL team in the Midwest. Removing teams that have solid 1B, that pretty much leaves MIN and the Sox. That's it. Two options. And Thome has big salary overhead, and is coming off an injury.

If the Sox were to trade Rowand and either Marte or a pitching prospect who is NOT BMac, and take half of Thome's salary... that would be VERY kind to Philly. They have no room to manuever.