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View Full Version : Sox prospects in the winter leagues update (Rogo and Owens)


Randar68
11-21-2005, 09:35 AM
This was a good weekend for both Rogo(Dominican) and Owens (Venezuelan)

Rogo went 4-5 on 11/18 and 3-4 with a BB and 2B on 11/19 to raise his average to .326

Jerry Owens went 2-4 on 11/18, 2-4 with a BB on 11/19, and 3-5 w/ 2 SB on 11/20, raising his overall average to .370.

California Sox
11-21-2005, 12:13 PM
Thanks, Randar. Where are you getting boxscores? The only thing I can find is the overall websites for the leagues in Spanish.

Also, do you think it's possible that Rogo makes the team in a type of platoon where, say, the Sox resign Konerko (or bring in one big bat such as Thome or Frank) then leave either 1b or dh open to rotate players through, thus getting at bats for Anderson and Rogo? Just a thought. A similar plan worked very well in '83 with Walker getting 300+ at bats.

bigredrudy
11-21-2005, 04:04 PM
Randar, Please compare the arms of Pods, Owens and Young. I would be very interested in your observations.

Randar68
11-21-2005, 04:10 PM
Randar, Please compare the arms of Pods, Owens and Young. I would be very interested in your observations.

Young > Owens >> Pods.

Young has really worked on his arm strength. Owens's arm isn't terrible, but Young's is probably superior at this point.

Fungo
11-21-2005, 04:48 PM
Randar, Please compare the arms of Pods, Owens and Young. I would be very interested in your observations.

There are posters on this board with better arms that Pods, so not much there to compare. Could you imagine an outfield that consisted of the much talked about Juan Pierre and Podsednik?

Randar68
11-21-2005, 04:56 PM
There are posters on this board with better arms that Pods, so not much there to compare. Could you imagine an outfield that consisted of the much talked about Juan Pierre and Podsednik?

That has scared me mightily, and it is the reason why I think if you're going to go that way because you're that desperate for a #2 hitter, just sign Furcal and trade Uribe and Rowand.

I'd much prefer Anderson/Furcal to Rowand/Uribe if the price difference isn't too astronomical. Don't see it happenning, but it really limits our options with respect to DH/1B/Frank as well.

Fungo
11-21-2005, 05:06 PM
That has scared me mightily, and it is the reason why I think if you're going to go that way because you're that desperate for a #2 hitter, just sign Furcal and trade Uribe and Rowand.

I'd much prefer Anderson/Furcal to Rowand/Uribe if the price difference isn't too astronomical. Don't see it happenning, but it really limits our options with respect to DH/1B/Frank as well.
I know we've both bashed Rowand to no end about his defense, but fact is that his defense in CF is better than either of those 2, plus arm strength really decreases (not that Rowand's was anything great either). The thing that most puzzles me is what happens to Anderson. I imagine he starts the year in AAA. No way are they gonna keep him as a 4th outfielder and only play a couple times a week on the big club. Furcal would be ideal, now just need to find the suitors.

Randar68
11-21-2005, 05:10 PM
I know we've both bashed Rowand to no end about his defense, but fact is that his defense in CF is better than either of those 2, plus arm strength really decreases (not that Rowand's was anything great either). The thing that most puzzles me is what happens to Anderson. I imagine he starts the year in AAA. No way are they gonna keep him as a 4th outfielder and only play a couple times a week on the big club. Furcal would be ideal, now just need to find the suitors.

Rowand is definitely better than Pods/Pierre in CF, although IMO Anderson is still better yet, which is really gravy in my thinking that they should just nab Furcal instead of worrying about downgrading the outfield defense and blocking the path for Anderson/Young/Owens/Sweeney.

That is, unless, they are going to be trading Anderson to be getting that big LH'd stick in the #3 hole.

JermaineDye05
11-21-2005, 09:08 PM
how much longer til you think Rogowski is ready for the majors, can't wait to see him up here, he seems to be tearing the cover off the ball right now

caulfield12
11-22-2005, 08:23 AM
how much longer til you think Rogowski is ready for the majors, can't wait to see him up here, he seems to be tearing the cover off the ball right now

i think Rogowski was formerly a state wrestling champ, and he has the frame for big-time power. He really has taken a long time to develop into a solid prospect.

The problem is that his statistics look eerily similar to Ross Gload, with the exception that he is a much better hitter for average.

Unless he lights the grass on fire in Spring Training AND the White Sox donīt make any acquisitions AND Konerko isnīt re-signed, I just donīt see Rogowski making this team, unless it is over Gload as a bench player.

rdivaldi
11-22-2005, 10:25 AM
i think Rogowski was formerly a state wrestling champ, and he has the frame for big-time power. He really has taken a long time to develop into a solid prospect.

Actually that's not quite true. Rogo was on the radar screen 3 years ago as an up and comer, but then he got injured. It took 2 years for him to round back into form.

Randar68
11-22-2005, 10:56 AM
Actually that's not quite true. Rogo was on the radar screen 3 years ago as an up and comer, but then he got injured. It took 2 years for him to round back into form.

Rogo can absolutely KILL the ball. However, he routinely hits the ball with a lot of topspin as opposed to that slight backspin that really cause a ball to carry. He's never really adjusted his swing to maximize that power-producing factor. If he never does, I doubt he'd be more than a 15-20 HR hitter. He has the frame and power to hit 40 HR's, but his swing plane isn't conducive to doing such.

Rogo blew his shoulder out and then battled some other minor injuries the following year. It basically cost him 2 years. It's been really hard for him to ditch the wrestling/football mentality but I think he turned a corner on that a little bit in 2004. He get's real riled-up about every at-bat and sometimes that can be counterproductive (see Borchard, Joe).

But, Rogo is a great guy, plays balls-to-the-wall, plays with emotion, does what it takes, has a good eye...

Long-timers around here know he's been a favorite of mine since his rookie-league days. Hope he continues to develop. Yes, he is a little older, but like Jerry Owens, you have to take injuries or extenuating circumstances that have delayed their development into account before throwing age out there as an all-encompassing determinant of prospect-status.

MadetoOrta
11-22-2005, 06:18 PM
Wasn't Pods Rookie-of-the-Year at the tender age of 27?

JermaineDye05
11-22-2005, 06:57 PM
Wasn't Pods Rookie-of-the-Year at the tender age of 27?

close, he got 2nd to Dontrelle Willis

He gone
11-23-2005, 09:42 PM
There are posters on this board with better arms that Pods, so not much there to compare.
Hey Pods has a better arm then one time Sox CF Lance Johnson :redneck

Brian has a pretty desent arm, but I would imagine he would be playing leftfield now. I thought he was playing winter ball?

MadetoOrta
11-24-2005, 08:46 AM
Hey Pods has a better arm then one time Sox CF Lance Johnson :redneck

Brian has a pretty desent arm, but I would imagine he would be playing leftfield now. I thought he was playing winter ball?

:hawk

"I still miss the 1-Dog."

Randar68
11-24-2005, 01:56 PM
Brian has a pretty desent arm, but I would imagine he would be playing leftfield now. I thought he was playing winter ball?

Anderson IMO is a better defensive OF'er than Rowand and he will not be playing LF if he and Pods are both out there. Unless they acquire someone, Anderson is your Opening Day CF'er.

I've told people to be prepared for this for the past several months...

kwolf68
11-25-2005, 02:20 PM
Anderson IMO is a better defensive OF'er than Rowand and he will not be playing LF if he and Pods are both out there. Unless they acquire someone, Anderson is your Opening Day CF'er.

I've told people to be prepared for this for the past several months...


Have lurked here for a while and love your contribution to the forum. Let me ask you, do you think any chances is there to have Owens on the big team next year?

It seems Ozzie wants another top of the order speed guy and the only place I can see us getting that from is a new CF. Anderson isn't really a 2, but Owens would be. I know that he was in AA last year and its a real risk to count on him, but Anderson is an unproven player as well.

And do you remember when Pods got injured last year? I remember reading somewhere where Ozzie mentioned Owens and said Kenny thinks he may be ready. It's interesting, but worrisome to have a AA player patrolling CF in a quest to repeat as World Champions.

Also, something has been interesting me for some time. Sox brass has really been "talking up" Anderson, almost to the point where its starting to sound like a little PR. Maybe they don't see that special ability and want to turn him around before too much later (see Joe Borchard), maybe as part of another big trade for a stud CF to immediately play full time and let Young and Owens season for another year or two.

I don't know. I just don't know if our CF situation is set. We have gotten no faster and I think Ozzie wants to move Gooch down the lineup and get a flier in the 2-hole, sorta like the Cardinals of the 1980s had with Coleman and McGee.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 03:30 PM
Have lurked here for a while and love your contribution to the forum. Let me ask you, do you think any chances is there to have Owens on the big team next year?

It seems Ozzie wants another top of the order speed guy and the only place I can see us getting that from is a new CF. Anderson isn't really a 2, but Owens would be. I know that he was in AA last year and its a real risk to count on him, but Anderson is an unproven player as well.

And do you remember when Pods got injured last year? I remember reading somewhere where Ozzie mentioned Owens and said Kenny thinks he may be ready. It's interesting, but worrisome to have a AA player patrolling CF in a quest to repeat as World Champions.

Also, something has been interesting me for some time. Sox brass has really been "talking up" Anderson, almost to the point where its starting to sound like a little PR. Maybe they don't see that special ability and want to turn him around before too much later (see Joe Borchard), maybe as part of another big trade for a stud CF to immediately play full time and let Young and Owens season for another year or two.

I don't know. I just don't know if our CF situation is set. We have gotten no faster and I think Ozzie wants to move Gooch down the lineup and get a flier in the 2-hole, sorta like the Cardinals of the 1980s had with Coleman and McGee.

To me, Tommy Herr was really one of the keys to those Cardinals teams in the 80īs...he was the first to ever have over 100 RBIīs with under 10 homers I think, cannot remember if it was 85 or 87.

If we had traded Rauch, Malone, Ginter, Borchard, Honel, etc., before they went downhill, weīd be the Atlanta Braves. But there is only one John Schuerholz, and only one Bobby Cox, and only one Leo Mazzone. It will be interesting to see if the Braves can repeat with added pressure from the Mets now and the Phillies.

kwolf68
11-26-2005, 04:44 PM
To me, Tommy Herr was really one of the keys to those Cardinals teams in the 80īs...he was the first to ever have over 100 RBIīs with under 10 homers I think, cannot remember if it was 85 or 87.

If we had traded Rauch, Malone, Ginter, Borchard, Honel, etc., before they went downhill, weīd be the Atlanta Braves. But there is only one John Schuerholz, and only one Bobby Cox, and only one Leo Mazzone. It will be interesting to see if the Braves can repeat with added pressure from the Mets now and the Phillies.

Does Herr get those RBIs without the rabbits on the base paths? The Cardinals would get a walk and have a guy at 3rd within 1 out.

Good points though, but don't you see the similarities between Schuerholz and KW? Everyone in the Sox nation always brings up the "prospects" dealt by KW that really never do anything as a deflection away from dealing a bucket load of talent for an aging and injured first baseman coming off a .207 year?

I'd have trade Malone in a NY minute before dealing either Haigwood or Gio (if he's part of it), but I think Philly probably considers him not much of a top prospect anymore. OR MAYBE, KW thinks he's got a star there and just needs to ride him out over this tough stretch and therefore we can afford to deal the other lefties.

I don't know, but I am not 100% sold that the White Sox 2006 CF is on this current roster and I wonder if a deal to move on a CF may involve Anderson, hence, the PR talk. Anderson has tools no doubt and he's a good character so I hope he works out for us, but I'm wondering.

He gone
11-26-2005, 08:27 PM
I don't know, but I am not 100% sold that the White Sox 2006 CF is on this current roster and I wonder if a deal to move on a CF may involve Anderson, hence, the PR talk. Anderson has tools no doubt and he's a good character so I hope he works out for us, but I'm wondering.

I think Anderson will be just fine in the outfield whether it's CF or LF. He might not be rookie of the year in 06, but I'll bet he's higher in the voting than Iguchi was this year. I'd also wouldn't mind seeing Borchard as the 4th outfielder next season. I know what your thinking, but wouldn't you rather see him than Timo? He's a switch hitter with power and he did bat over .400 last year :cool:

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/4724/0706051026xr.jpg

Banix12
11-26-2005, 09:01 PM
I think Anderson will be just fine in the outfield whether it's CF or LF. He might not be rookie of the year in 06, but I'll bet he's higher in the voting than Iguchi was this year. I'd also wouldn't mind seeing Borchard as the 4th outfielder next season. I know what your thinking, but wouldn't you rather see him than Timo? He's a switch hitter with power and he did bat over .400 last year :cool:

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/4724/0706051026xr.jpg

Although it was encouraging, it was a small sample size for Borchard and he didn't look too sharp when he finally got a start or two during that Cleveland series. If Borchard can earn the 4th spot then fine but he gets handed nothing. Borchard may have the pedigree and the potential but thus far Timo has proven himself to be a superior major league hitter to Borchard. Timo is just too expensive though.

DaleJRFan
11-27-2005, 07:55 AM
Although it was encouraging, it was a small sample size for Borchard and he didn't look too sharp when he finally got a start or two during that Cleveland series. If Borchard can earn the 4th spot then fine but he gets handed nothing. Borchard may have the pedigree and the potential but thus far Timo has proven himself to be a superior major league hitter to Borchard. Timo is just too expensive though.

How is Timo more expensive than Borchard?? Borchard received a $5,600,000 bonus to sit in the minors for 5 years.

caulfield12
11-27-2005, 12:03 PM
Does Herr get those RBIs without the rabbits on the base paths? The Cardinals would get a walk and have a guy at 3rd within 1 out.

Good points though, but don't you see the similarities between Schuerholz and KW? Everyone in the Sox nation always brings up the "prospects" dealt by KW that really never do anything as a deflection away from dealing a bucket load of talent for an aging and injured first baseman coming off a .207 year?

I'd have trade Malone in a NY minute before dealing either Haigwood or Gio (if he's part of it), but I think Philly probably considers him not much of a top prospect anymore. OR MAYBE, KW thinks he's got a star there and just needs to ride him out over this tough stretch and therefore we can afford to deal the other lefties.

I don't know, but I am not 100% sold that the White Sox 2006 CF is on this current roster and I wonder if a deal to move on a CF may involve Anderson, hence, the PR talk. Anderson has tools no doubt and he's a good character so I hope he works out for us, but I'm wondering.

The Rangers passed on Malone when they had a chance to get him in the Everett trade, number 2. They took Rupe, Anthony Webster and Frank Francisco. This was after the injury problems started to take their toll.

Thereīs an article in the Tribune today about how KW has traded something like 16 of 25 Top 10 prospects and the only ones to have come close to being regulars are Frank Francisco (arm surgery, but a poor mansī version of Jenks...or the pitcher Lorenzo Barcelo was supposed to be, lol) and J. Reed.

Of course, you also have Kip Wells and Josh Fogg, but thatīs about the extent of it.

Phil Rogers mentioned a trade for Pierre would involve one of our minor league outfielders and hinge on the fact that the Marlins will demand Cotts as well and we certainly cannot afford to give him up....because he provides depth to the starting rotation that we do not have ready at the minor league level AND heīs one of the five best LH set-up men in baseball coming into this season AND heīs cheap....a great combination.

Randar68
11-28-2005, 01:07 PM
How is Timo more expensive than Borchard?? Borchard received a $5,600,000 bonus to sit in the minors for 5 years.

LOL! Yeah, that's what his salary is... :rolleyes:

Timo MADE 1 million last year. Borchard will MAKE 350k or so. That 5+ million is gone. Get over it. sheeesh.

Randar68
11-28-2005, 01:10 PM
Although it was encouraging, it was a small sample size for Borchard and he didn't look too sharp when he finally got a start or two during that Cleveland series. If Borchard can earn the 4th spot then fine but he gets handed nothing. Borchard may have the pedigree and the potential but thus far Timo has proven himself to be a superior major league hitter to Borchard. Timo is just too expensive though.

The things that concerns me about Borch on the bench:

1) Hard to get 5 AB's a week and keep your swing short if that's a problem for you.
2) Joe has a tendency to "stew" a bit when he struggles.

Much better defensively than Timo though.

Randar68
11-28-2005, 01:12 PM
Anderson has tools no doubt and he's a good character so I hope he works out for us, but I'm wondering.

3 things:

1) KW drafted Brian and has been his #1 fan since he was at UofA.
2) Anderson has moved very quickly, despite struggling and missing times with injury in 2004 and covering 2 levels
3) I wouldn't doubt that Philly asked for Anderson over Rowand. Pure speculation, but his ceiling is higher and cost is lower and he's MLB-ready.

DaleJRFan
11-28-2005, 02:31 PM
Timo MADE 1 million last year. Borchard will MAKE 350k or so. That 5+ million is gone. Get over it. sheeesh.

Stop picking on me!

kwolf68
12-09-2005, 01:12 PM
I hear you Randar, but I was not blown away by BA in his short stint last year. I thought Borchard had better plate presence than Anderson, said as that may be. The 2 homers he dinged off the kid in Seattle had me excited, but then he went slumber. I like his defense and I agree with you that he may actually be an upgrade over A-Ro there, but the doubts on him remain.

Still, he's a top prospect and has produced at all levels. I'd say the time is now to run him out there. The good thing is if he falters, we have two more killer prospects (Owens, Young) to potentially fall back on. Owens star seems to really be shining right now, though he's a couple years older than CY.

rdivaldi
12-09-2005, 02:37 PM
Still, he's a top prospect and has produced at all levels.

Isn't that kind of a stretch? Anderson produced at Rookie and A Ball, but has been mediocre since. I still fail to understand what makes this guy a "top prospect".

Randar68
12-09-2005, 02:41 PM
Isn't that kind of a stretch? Anderson produced at Rookie and A Ball, but has been mediocre since. I still fail to understand what makes this guy a "top prospect".

Traversing 3 full levels in 2 seasons? How about top-grade defense in CF?

Or maybe it's the fact that he adjusts quickly and is very coachable?

I know you're not wowed by him, but he has done well at every level except for his injury-plagued second-half of his stint in Birmingham.

Is he Delmon Young "Top prospect?" no. Tools-wise he's not Chris Young either. All he does is produce, have a great attitude and approach, and he just happens to be pretty damn physically gifter for someone his size.

For the record, he was anything but mediocre in Birmingham. He was on fire there hitting around .330 with plenty of pop before reinjuring the wrist and pulling a groin.

Randar68
12-09-2005, 02:54 PM
Here are Anderson's career professional stats, since rdivaldi is using that as part of his argument about mediocrity.

Less than 1000 minor league AB's and almost half of those in AAA. Played the equivalent of one minor league season below the AAA level.

Has he had struggles? Not when healthy for the most part. Has he repeated a level? He's skipped one level and spent just half a season at 2 others.

I have never really understood your distaste for BA, rdivaldi, not sure I ever will.

kwolf68
12-09-2005, 03:49 PM
While I may have my doubts about Brian Anderson, he has NOT BEEN mediocre at any level he has played.

He now has a chance to do it on the highest level. I think he's a great fit for this team and I just hope he consistently produces.

rdivaldi
12-09-2005, 10:08 PM
Here are Anderson's career professional stats, since rdivaldi is using that as part of his argument about mediocrity.

Less than 1000 minor league AB's and almost half of those in AAA. Played the equivalent of one minor league season below the AAA level.

Has he had struggles? Not when healthy for the most part. Has he repeated a level? He's skipped one level and spent just half a season at 2 others.

I have never really understood your distaste for BA, rdivaldi, not sure I ever will.

I just don't see it in him randar. You can't like every top prospect, and BA just doesn't do it for me. I see 4th outfielder or mediocre CF in his future. I felt the same way about Jeremy Reed after watching him for a couple of seasons. I could easily be wrong about both of them, but hey, you gotta predict flops with the future all stars.

I still have the wood and nails from the Jon Rauch Wing of the Hall of Fame I anticipated would need to be built after watching him dominate in 2000. I also was ready to trade away Cotts for a bag of balls for the last two years.
:redface:

mdep524
12-10-2005, 03:55 AM
Maybe this should get its own thread, but since I'm here I'll just post it as a reply. What are your all thoughts on Josh Fields (the infielder, not the pitcher) as a prospect? Is he the real deal or do you guys think he has a good chance of fizzling out Borchard-style?

For some reason I am not sold on the guy. Granted, I know a heck of a lot less than you guys. But what I see/hear/read seems doesn't knock me out. Will his defense ever be good enough to be a 3B (is it realistic to see him as Crede's replacement in a year or two?), or is it pretty much assumed he'll just end up a 1B? And if he ends up at 1B, does he have the bat to stick? It seems like he has a lot of power potential, but also a low average and a lot of K's.

TheVulture
12-10-2005, 03:53 PM
To me, Tommy Herr was really one of the keys to those Cardinals teams in the 80īs...he was the first to ever have over 100 RBIīs with under 10 homers I think, cannot remember if it was 85 or 87.


He may have been the 1st in a number of years, but he certainly wasn't the first ever. Honus Wagner did it 6 times and Ty Cobb did it 5 times, including one year he knocked in 127 with 8 HRs. There were probably dozens of guys who did it in that era. Lou Boudreau did it as late as 1940, don't know if anyone else did it after that time.

Troy Boy
12-23-2005, 09:00 AM
Thanks, Randar. Where are you getting boxscores? The only thing I can find is the overall websites for the leagues in Spanish.

Also, do you think it's possible that Rogo makes the team in a type of platoon where, say, the Sox resign Konerko (or bring in one big bat such as Thome or Frank) then leave either 1b or dh open to rotate players through, thus getting at bats for Anderson and Rogo? Just a thought. A similar plan worked very well in '83 with Walker getting 300+ at bats.

Did you ever find out the source of Winter League stats? I am especially interested in Charlie Haeger's.

Thanks

Man Soo Lee
12-23-2005, 01:24 PM
Haeger went 4-3 with a 4.74 ERA in 8 starts. 43.2 innings, 50 H, 23 BB, 17 K.

Hagan
12-23-2005, 08:38 PM
A big reason why Brian Anderson is such a big prospect is because he plays center field which is a tougher position to come by. If he was a right or left fielder his stock wouldnt be as high. He has put up fairly good numbers every year but nothing to get overly excited about. He isnt fast enough to be a speed player and his power numbers are nothing spectacular. He hits for average well and has some plate patiencem but plays great defense and has a good arm. For a center fielder, I think he will do well in his major league career. He is only going to be 24 next year and will improve year to year.