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View Full Version : Marlins-Rangers blockbuster trade in the works


Jjav829
11-19-2005, 03:14 AM
***?? I stared my screen for a good minute after I saw this.

According to the Palm Beach Post, the Marlins are close to a trade that would send Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell to the Rangers for Hank Blalock and a pitching prospect.
The Marlins are asking for either John Danks or Thomas Diamond, the Rangers' top two pitching prospects. Unless they back down from that, the deal may yet fall apart. Unless the Marlins are paying a portion of what Lowell is owned, Blalock alone should be enough to get a deal done. Beckett may be worth Blalock, but at $18 million over the next two years, Lowell has negative trade value. Blalock will make $13.5 million over the next three years.

You're ****tin me...Run marlins, run! Run away while you still can! Blalock is overrated. He doesn't hit lefties. He doesn't hit away from Ameriquest Field. He doesn't hit after the All-Star break. Not a good combination.

nodiggity59
11-19-2005, 03:39 AM
***?? I stared my screen for a good minute after I saw this.

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You're ****tin me...Run marlins, run! Run away while you still can! Blalock is overrated. He doesn't hit lefties. He doesn't hit away from Ameriquest Field. He doesn't hit after the All-Star break. Not a good combination.

If the Marliins clear $15mil or more of Lowell's salary, that would make it more difficult to acquire Delgado. Though the longer things go on the more I think he's not really and option for us.

Banix12
11-19-2005, 04:15 AM
This makes no sense to me, I thought one of the reasons the marlins have been trying to unload Lowell is because they have Miguel Cabrera playing out of position in the OF and would like to move him back to 3rd. And beckett is their best pitcher, even though he has had his share of injury troubles.

If this trade gets made I would think it would have a 3rd team involved to bring some pitching back to the Marlins for Blalock.

nodiggity59
11-19-2005, 04:25 AM
This makes no sense to me, I thought one of the reasons the marlins have been trying to unload Lowell is because they have Miguel Cabrera playing out of position in the OF and would like to move him back to 3rd. And beckett is their best pitcher, even though he has had his share of injury troubles.

If this trade gets made I would think it would have a 3rd team involved to bring some pitching back to the Marlins for Blalock.

One thought that struck me was if they could then move Delgado. Have Cabrera-Blalock at 3B/1B. Trade Pierre as well b/c you have a bunch of outfield prospects (rotoworld suggested a "$1mil outfield" for them). Resign AGon. Use the Delgado and Pierre trades to upgrade your pitching.

C- Lo Duca
1B - Blalock
2B- Castillo (leadoff)
SS - Gonzalez
3B - Cabrera
Outfield - Hermida, whatever other prospects they have.

Use Delgado/Pierre to bring you pitching and sign a cheap (Encarnacion?) outfielder. They'd weaken themselves on the pitching front, of course. But this is workable I guess, if unadvisable.

Banix12
11-19-2005, 05:19 AM
One thought that struck me was if they could then move Delgado. Have Cabrera-Blalock at 3B/1B. Trade Pierre as well b/c you have a bunch of outfield prospects (rotoworld suggested a "$1mil outfield" for them). Resign AGon. Use the Delgado and Pierre trades to upgrade your pitching.

C- Lo Duca
1B - Blalock
2B- Castillo (leadoff)
SS - Gonzalez
3B - Cabrera
Outfield - Hermida, whatever other prospects they have.

Use Delgado/Pierre to bring you pitching and sign a cheap (Encarnacion?) outfielder. They'd weaken themselves on the pitching front, of course. But this is workable I guess, if unadvisable.

That seems like too many "what ifs?" to be a legit trading strategy, but who knows.

samram
11-19-2005, 08:03 AM
Well, I had opined a few weeks ago that the Rangers would try to trade Blalock for young pitching, but I didn't think he could net them a guy like Beckett. Maybe the Marlins are fed up with the monthly DL visits, I don't know. And, as others have mentioned, the salary relief the Marlins will get by trading Lowell will make acquiring Delgado far more difficult unless they are just going to have a fire sale.

Tragg
11-19-2005, 09:28 AM
I can't imagine why anyone would be complicit in taking Lowell off their hands unless a)the acquiring team pays only 3MM or so of his salary and/or b) they get much the best of it talent wise.

I see the sun times has us linked with pierre again - ugh....
http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-pierre19.html

samram
11-19-2005, 09:33 AM
I can't imagine why anyone would be complicit in taking Lowell off their hands unless a)the acquiring team pays only 3MM or so of his salary and/or b) they get much the best of it talent wise.

I see the sun times has us linked with pierre again - ugh....
http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-pierre19.html

I guess the posts in that thread last week showing Pierre to not be as bad as you belive he is didn't convince you.:D: I'm with you on the Lowell thing though- that's a bad contract to pick up, especially if you need pitching.

Tragg
11-19-2005, 09:40 AM
I guess the posts in that thread last week showing Pierre to not be as bad as you belive he is didn't convince you.:D: I'm with you on the Lowell thing though- that's a bad contract to pick up, especially if you need pitching.
Bad fielder, inconsistent hitter, clogs our pipeline....I guess I need more convincing. It's not that he's terrible, it's just that I don't see how he improves this club.

Seriously, though, have you ever seen more demand for more players from a team as mediocre as the Marlins? It's like every positional player on that team, are linked in trade rumors... and not for "players to be named later" or "organizational minor leaguers"..for legitimate major league players. And the best players on that team are starting pitchers. It's mind-boggling.

Flight #24
11-19-2005, 10:00 AM
Wow. What a horrid trade for the Marlins unless they have some kind of knowledge that Beckett's wearing down or something. Are the contract/arb issues that severe? Give away Delgado for nothing, don't trade a very very good pitcher.

At least this wasn't as bad as my first thought when I saw the headline - Where is WSI gonna get a new Official Physician if PHG & co trade Doc Beckett?

The Deacon
11-19-2005, 10:05 AM
Josh Beckett is the #2 All-Time leader in simulated innings pitched, he trails only Kerry Wood in the category.

A. Cavatica
11-19-2005, 10:15 AM
Somehow, some way, we should get into this deal and send El Duque to the Marlins.

A. Cavatica
11-19-2005, 10:16 AM
Josh Beckett is the #2 All-Time leader in simulated innings pitched, he trails only Kerry Wood in the category.

:rolling: :rolling:

Jjav829
11-19-2005, 11:05 AM
Somehow, some way, we should get into this deal and send El Duque to the Marlins.

I'd love to add Beckett, even though he isn't needed. I know he's never come close to 200 innings in a season, but when this guy is on he is a top 5 pitcher. That fastball-splitter combination is deadly. The only guy with a better splitter in baseball is Clemens. I think Beckett is ready to take that next step to establish himself as an elite pitcher who can give a team 200 innings a year. I'd like to see that happen with the Sox, though it sounds like it will happen with the Rangers.

Jjav829
11-19-2005, 11:09 AM
Bad fielder, inconsistent hitter, clogs our pipeline....I guess I need more convincing. It's not that he's terrible, it's just that I don't see how he improves this club.

Seriously, though, have you ever seen more demand for more players from a team as mediocre as the Marlins? It's like every positional player on that team, are linked in trade rumors... and not for "players to be named later" or "organizational minor leaguers"..for legitimate major league players. And the best players on that team are starting pitchers. It's mind-boggling.

They have a lot of talent. The reason their team was mediocre is because their bullpen was awful and they had a few players underachieve. Like I've said before, to be a champion you have to have everything go your way. The Marlins didn't have that happen last year, but that doesn't mean they don't have a lot of talent on that team. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the players they are shopping are drawing a lot of interest.

Jjav829
11-19-2005, 11:19 AM
If the Marliins clear $15mil or more of Lowell's salary, that would make it more difficult to acquire Delgado. Though the longer things go on the more I think he's not really and option for us.

I wouldn't be so sure. I think they would still trade Delgado. If this trade goes down as expected, the Marlins are going to need some starting pitching. They will have lost Burnett and Beckett from last year. That leaves them with Willis and two young pitchers that are basically rookies, Jason Vargas and Scott Olsen. They will need to either trade Delgado for starting pitching, or clear his salary and sign a pitcher in free agency. Then again, they could also turn around and trade Blalock for a starter I suppose.

ChiSox14305635
11-19-2005, 12:13 PM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2005/11/19/a1b_marlins_1119.html

Rangers would send Blalock, plus prospects to the Marlins for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell.

Either the Marlins can't afford him, or their farm system is stockpiled with prized arms (Danks coming from Texas would help too), but Beckett going to Texas gives them an instant ace (if only he could stay healthy).

Lip Man 1
11-19-2005, 01:27 PM
If you believe the owners, the Marlins financial situation is becomming pretty desperate. They thought they had things cleared up with the new state/ owner funded ballpark but that was torpedoed in part because the owners started to have second thoughts about the amount of their contributions.

They have no stadium deal, none of the horizon and haven't been able to energize their fan base for the long term.

I guess you could see them completely gut the club in the off season. They did it once before, after they won in 2001. The owner said he was bringing everybody back, then jettisoned five or six guys.

Lip

gobears1987
11-19-2005, 01:34 PM
Josh Beckett is the #2 All-Time leader in simulated innings pitched, he trails only Kerry Wood in the category.Wrong, Mark Prior is in the #2 spot. Beckett is #3

Mr. White Sox
11-19-2005, 02:37 PM
Josh Beckett is the #2 All-Time leader in simulated innings pitched, he trails only Kerry Wood in the category.

*waits for Beckett-mod to rain down vengeance upon the perpetrator*

beckett21
11-19-2005, 03:04 PM
*waits for Beckett-mod to rain down vengeance upon the perpetrator*

LOL, I don't have any mod superpowers. I'm only a mere mortal who writes recaps from time to time. However, I do have friends in high places. :redneck

Unfortunately, Beckett is deserving of the question-marks. I agree with Jjav that when he's healthy and on top of his game, he can be elite. The problem is staying healthy. His injuries never seem to be very serious (i.e. blisters, muscle strains), but he misses time every season due to some goofy malady.

This trade would shock me. The Marlins would really be getting the short end of the stick, despite Lowell's contract. Put Lowell in Arlington, and I'd be willing to bet that we see a return to form for him--he could definitely match or surpass Blalock's production in the short term.

I'd love to see the Sox find room for Beckett if the Marlins are in such a giving mood, but it won't happen. :(:

ndu3t4
11-19-2005, 10:47 PM
This is a good trade for the Fish. Blalock is a huge upgrade from Lowell, offensively and defensively while Josh Beckett isn't a huge loss but could be a solid #3 for Texas.

beckett21
11-19-2005, 11:00 PM
This is a good trade for the Fish. Blalock is a huge upgrade from Lowell, offensively and defensively while Josh Beckett isn't a huge loss but could be a solid #3 for Texas.

A solid #3 ? :?:

I'm not trying to start a problem here...okay, maybe I am...but who, pray tell, on Texas would be considered their #'s 1 & 2 over Beckett? Assuming health, of course.

Did they get Johan Santana when I wasn't looking? :?:

samram
11-19-2005, 11:02 PM
This is a good trade for the Fish. Blalock is a huge upgrade from Lowell, offensively and defensively while Josh Beckett isn't a huge loss but could be a solid #3 for Texas.

#3? Have you seen who pitches for Texas? He'll be the opening day starter, and maybe even the game 2 and 3 starter on that team.

Mr. White Sox
11-19-2005, 11:18 PM
Not once they get Roger Clemens.

Tragg
11-19-2005, 11:22 PM
If anyone's in the mood for Gammons, here's an article that says that Fla needs to cut payroll to lock up Willis and Cabrera to long term deals.
Also dealing Delgado, although Sox not one of teams interested, per Gammons.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2229919

HotelWhiteSox
11-19-2005, 11:57 PM
LOL seriously, sorry, but I'll take Beckett over Kenny Rogers any day of the week. Though Beckett's story was basically shown in the interleague game against us a couple years ago, he was completely dominating, then he got hurt (that will be the question). I think it's beneficial to both teams, though I'd give the edge to Texas because Flordia didn't look like they were going to compete anyways (rumors of getting rid of Delgado, letting FA Starting pitchers walk, etc, though there's no questioning the talent of Cabrera and Willis, along with some solid pieces around them)

DaleJRFan
11-20-2005, 12:03 AM
A solid #3 ? :?:

I'm not trying to start a problem here...okay, maybe I am...but who, pray tell, on Texas would be considered their #'s 1 & 2 over Beckett? Assuming health, of course.

Did they get Johan Santana when I wasn't looking? :?:

I'm with you there, Doc. A healthy Josh Beckett is as good as anyone in baseball. This is a STUPID trade, no matter how badly they want Lowell gone. Beckeet is a marquee pitcher, why trade him for a 3B when they want to move Cabrera back to 3B?? I don't get it.

SoxSpeed22
11-20-2005, 12:49 AM
Remind again, how this is blockbuster?
The trade involves a frequently-blistering pitcher and a downer year third baseman for a third baseman who can't hit when he's not given the signs from center field.
:whatever:

fquaye149
11-20-2005, 12:54 AM
A solid #3 ? :?:

I'm not trying to start a problem here...okay, maybe I am...but who, pray tell, on Texas would be considered their #'s 1 & 2 over Beckett? Assuming health, of course.

Did they get Johan Santana when I wasn't looking? :?:

Kenny Rogers and Chris Young are all I can think of.

I guess if Kenny Rogers is on he can compare to Beckett...but not really

I think Beckett would become the ace of pretty much any rotation he goes to. Ours included.

Jjav829
11-20-2005, 03:10 AM
It sounds like Beckett definitely won't be the only big name leaving. Some sources are saying this could be a complete fire sale by the Marlins.

But sources said Florida's front office has been telling teams that, except for pitcher Dontrelle Willis and third baseman Miguel Cabrera, everyone is available because of orders to cut payroll from the club-record $65 million spent on last season's team.

Wow. Let's go on a shopping spree, Kenny! Beckett, Delgado, Pierre - bring 'em all over. :cool:

Link (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2005/11/20/z1b_marlins_1120.html)

HotelWhiteSox
11-20-2005, 03:21 AM
I'll take an order of Guillermo Mota!

DaleJRFan
11-20-2005, 04:11 AM
Wrong, Mark Prior is in the #2 spot. Beckett is #3

Neither Mark Prior nor Kerry Wood can claim to have thrown a 2-hit shutout in Yankee Statium to win the World Series. So what, so the guy had a few freak injuries? When he pitches, he dominates, and... he has a ring.

DaleJRFan
11-20-2005, 05:01 AM
I think Beckett would become the ace of pretty much any rotation he goes to. Ours included.

:?: :?:

Beckett's pretty damn good, but so are Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Mark Buehrle and Jose Conteras.

fquaye149
11-20-2005, 08:16 AM
:?: :?:

Beckett's pretty damn good, but so are Freddy Garcia, Jon Garland, Mark Buehrle and Jose Conteras.

I agree with everything you've said. Yet I still think Beckett might be a better total package than anyone on our staff (Although McCarthy might be coming on pretty strong)

samram
11-20-2005, 08:28 AM
It sounds like Beckett definitely won't be the only big name leaving. Some sources are saying this could be a complete fire sale by the Marlins.



Wow. Let's go on a shopping spree, Kenny! Beckett, Delgado, Pierre - bring 'em all over. :cool:

Link (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2005/11/20/z1b_marlins_1120.html)

Woohoo! A fire sale- and just in time for the holidays! I say the angle KW should take is to tell them that he could save them money in future seasons by taking Willis and Cabrera off their hands now.

samram
11-20-2005, 08:30 AM
I agree with everything you've said. Yet I still think Beckett might be a better total package than anyone on our staff (Although McCarthy might be coming on pretty strong)

Correct. Beckett can be better than anyone the Sox have- Contreras is the only one who has stuff that can even be compared to Beckett's.

Flight #24
11-20-2005, 10:10 AM
The plot sickens, at least per EastSPN:

The Red Sox have joined the Rangers in the chase for Josh Beckett, ESPN's Peter Gammons reports.
According to Gammons, the Marlins are asking for Hanley Ramirez and either Jon Lester or Anibal Sanchez. They'd also want the Red Sox to take Lowell's contract, which might be a dealbreaker. Beckett for Ramirez and Sanchez would probably be worth doing for Boston. Beckett's a health risk, but he's still a better bet for the future than A.J. Burnett and he won't command all that much money in arbitration over the next two years. Nov. 19 - 6:23 pm et

That's a pretty solid haul for Beckett, the equivalent Sox take being McCarthy/Gio + Anderson/Young.

jabrch
11-20-2005, 11:26 AM
"That's a pretty solid haul for Beckett, the equivalent Sox take being McCarthy/Gio + Anderson/Young."

That's true - but if the opportunity was there, and we were only paying a portion of Lowell, I'd think we'd strongly consider that deal, particularly if it were Gio and either of the two hitters. Lowell could DH/3B. Imagine our rotation getting not only slightly better, but Josh Beckettly better?

Buehrle
Beckett
Contreras
Garland
Garcia

with McCarthy and Duque in the swing spot? Heck even if it were McCarthy I'd have to strongly consider it. Becket is a career 3.46/1.23 guy and despite his injuries, had 29 starts last year and 26 the year before.

On the other hand, move him from Pro-Player in the NL to USCF in the AL and that's probably close to a run per game extra...

I guess I'd rather focus on offense right now as that is our biggest hole. I'm still optimistic that we will resign PK, but even then we need to decide who is DHing.

Tragg
11-20-2005, 11:48 AM
On the other hand, move him from Pro-Player in the NL to USCF in the AL and that's probably close to a run per game extra...

I guess I'd rather focus on offense right now as that is our biggest hole. I'm still optimistic that we will resign PK, but even then we need to decide who is DHing.
There you ago - finally, we agree!

I would consider that deal extraordinarily ill-advised: not a need, injury prone, inflated park stats, weaker league, lose our best OF prospect in ages

I think Texas is getting a steal.
Boston is paying a high price, but for them it is a need.
I'd take the Bosox deal if I were Florida (Blalock has dubious and 2nd half numbers).

TheOldRoman
11-20-2005, 11:50 AM
The plot sickens, at least per EastSPN:



That's a pretty solid haul for Beckett, the equivalent Sox take being McCarthy/Gio + Anderson/Young.
Hmm. I am thinking that if the Marlins put up the "everthing must go!" sign, KW should clean them out. If we get Beckett, Delgado, Pierre, and eat Lowell's entire contract this year, we might be able to get something done. Taking on Lowell would mean we have to send a lot less talent there, but we would still have to send a lot. Lowell's deal is up after 06, and JR could pay for him using the playoff revenue.

beckett21
11-20-2005, 12:10 PM
Kenny Rogers and Chris Young are all I can think of.


Those are the only two who even belong anywhere near the discussion. It's still not even close.

samram
11-20-2005, 12:17 PM
Those are the only two who even belong anywhere near the discussion. It's still not even close.

Kenny Rogers is a free agent, too, so he may not even be there come the start of the season. Saying that, Texas almost has to make this trade.

ScottyTheSoxFan
11-20-2005, 12:57 PM
I'm with you there, Doc. A healthy Josh Beckett is as good as anyone in baseball. This is a STUPID trade, no matter how badly they want Lowell gone. Beckeet is a marquee pitcher, why trade him for a 3B when they want to move Cabrera back to 3B?? I don't get it.

if they deal delgado, i have a feeling blalock might be playing 1B for the fish. just a thought if cabrera is going back to 3B.

samram
11-20-2005, 01:15 PM
if they deal delgado, i have a feeling blalock might be playing 1B for the fish. just a thought if cabrera is going back to 3B.

Blalock is a Gold Glove caliber 3B, so he wouldn't be moved to first.

Craig Grebeck
11-20-2005, 02:26 PM
If/when this goes down, the Marlins will move Blalock immediately.

Read this on http://www.mlbtraderumors.com
I'm hearing that if this deal goes down with the Rangers, Blalock will then be moved to a 3rd team. Early rumors are the White Sox to play 1B, and the Red Sox to play 3B. Just some whispers. We'll see though.
Obviously taken with a grain of salt, but Kenny will explore all options. Blalock is an interesting guy. He was absolutely brutal for all of last season, esp. away from Ameriquest. If we got in a deal with Florida, they would do everything to fleece us. The way they see it they traded one of the best young pitchers in baseball for Blalock, and now they will want something in return for his "value."

The Wimperoo
11-20-2005, 02:32 PM
This would be a pretty terrible trade for the Marlins other than dumping Lowell's salary. Blalock can't hit away from Texas or against LHP. He's below average defensively. He has no range. You could say the Buddy Lee of 3B.

Tragg
11-20-2005, 04:46 PM
If/when this goes down, the Marlins will move Blalock immediately.

Read this on http://www.mlbtraderumors.com


Lord, I open that link and do you know what the headline was?

Mark Beuhrle to the Cardinals.

Nothing like the hot stove.

SoxSpeed22
11-20-2005, 05:02 PM
Lord, I open that link and do you know what the headline was?

Mark Beuhrle to the Cardinals.

Nothing like the hot stove.
Read the ending
This is very sound logic (although it comes from a couple of die-hard Cards fans).
Fun times.

samram
11-20-2005, 05:02 PM
Lord, I open that link and do you know what the headline was?

Mark Beuhrle to the Cardinals.

Nothing like the hot stove.


Apparently the delusion normally reserved for the North Side of Chicago has trickled down I-55 to St. Louis.

Tragg
11-20-2005, 05:07 PM
The sound logic was a)MB was a Cards fan (I would guess that 95% of major leaguers were fans of some team growing up) b)if they offered Jason Marquis and REyes (a prospect I presume) we'd get interested.
Jason Marquis - now we're talking!

And please keep Blaylock out of the southside, thank you.

SoxSpeed22
11-20-2005, 05:17 PM
The sound logic was a)MB was a Cards fan (I would guess that 95% of major leaguers were fans of some team growing up) b)if they offered Jason Marquis and REyes (a prospect I presume) we'd get interested.
Jason Marquis - now we're talking!

And please keep Blaylock out of the southside, thank you.
Maybe if they offered Pujols.
Also, Blalock is not going to do well in Miami. Or anywhere where's he's traded, for that matter.