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View Full Version : Nightengale - White Sox/Thome interest mutual?


Jjav829
11-18-2005, 10:40 AM
Interesting if true, which I wouldn't doubt.


The White Sox are ever-so-secretly making plans to repeat their October celebrations.

High-ranking club officials revealed that the White Sox have informed the Phillies that they want first baseman Jim Thome. And, yes, the Phillies replied, Thome is very much available. Trading Thome would clear room for Rookie of the Year Ryan Howard.

The Phillies have several suitors for Thome, but with $43.5 remaining in his contract, they will likely have to swallow nearly half of his salary. The Phillies also realize that their offseason options could be severely limited by Thome, who has a no-trade clause.

And guess where he'd love to play next year? On the South Side of Chicago.


Link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/nightengale/2005-11-16-majors_x.htm)

samram
11-18-2005, 10:56 AM
Obviously, it would be nice to have more information about his health, but if he is healthy, he would be a nice addition. Talking to some people from Philly, it sounds as if the Sox were take on about $30 million of the contract, they wouldn't have to give much up to get him since the Phillies really have to get him off the roster.

Madvora
11-18-2005, 11:05 AM
Bill Mueller also mentioned in the article. Looks like they could use him as the DH and back up Crede if needed. Not too bad of an idea.

KRS1
11-18-2005, 11:52 AM
What exactly is Jim owed in salary/year right now?

itsnotrequired
11-18-2005, 12:38 PM
What exactly is Jim owed in salary/year right now?

He was paid $11.5 this last season but is owed $12.5 next season. That shoots up to $14 for 2007 and 2008. $13 club option for 2009.

RallyBowl
11-18-2005, 01:03 PM
I like Thome, and think he is a good ballplayer. However, intrest in him certainly means they don't have intrest in resigning Paulie or Frank. Call me a moron, but I would rather see both of them back than sign Thome and only have only one of them here next year.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2005, 01:08 PM
I like Thome, and think he is a good ballplayer. However, intrest in him certainly means they don't have intrest in resigning Paulie or Frank. Call me a moron, but I would rather see both of them back than sign Thome and only have only one of them here next year.I don't know why you'd say that. They were short one big bat in the lineup this year. Even if they re-sign Pauly, they'd need another. Thomas, even if he's re-signed, is a question mark.

TomBradley72
11-18-2005, 01:28 PM
The whole theory behind acquiring Thome is that he has very little value to the Phillies (they have a great young 1B and with Thome's elbow/back problems...he's becoming primarily a DH)...so they should be willing to eat a big chunk of his salary as part of any deal. The trade market for Thome is AL teams looking for a DH. With those assumptions you can still resign Paulie and acquire Thome. But it probably does mean the end of Frank's tenure with the WSox.

julio-cruz
11-18-2005, 01:55 PM
I am sure we would have to give up a few good players if they were to eat part of the contract. Trades are very rarely a one-way street; like the recent Mike Cameron trade (Yikes). Most likely, Philly would be eyeing Rowand and Marte/or minor leauge pitcher like Liotta. I'd say go for it!
I remember seeing Thome smoke two homers in USCF two years ago off of Buehrle. If he's healthy, he's a perfect fit, regardless if we re-sign Paulie.

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2005, 02:07 PM
I am sure we would have to give up a few good players if they were to eat part of the contract. Trades are very rarely a one-way street; like the recent Mike Cameron trade (Yikes). Most likely, Philly would be eyeing Rowand and Marte/or minor leauge pitcher like Liotta. I'd say go for it!
I remember seeing Thome smoke two homers in USCF two years ago off of Buehrle. If he's healthy, he's a perfect fit, regardless if we re-sign Paulie.The Phils are in a very poor negotiating position. They have no place for Thome to play, so they need to unload as much of his salary as possible. Few, if any, NL teams would be interested, and IIRC, Thome has a no-trade clause. He wants to play in Chicago. Add it all up and Kenny is in the cat-bird's seat on this one.

Flight #24
11-18-2005, 02:13 PM
FWIW, Rotoworld reports the Mets "stepping up" their pursuit of Delgado, which may make the Sox pursuing Thome more reasonable as an alternative DH. Same issues in terms of the impact on Thomas apply, unless Konerko leaves.

TheOldRoman
11-18-2005, 02:16 PM
The Phils are in a very poor negotiating position. They have no place for Thome to play, so they need to unload as much of his salary as possible. Few, if any, NL teams would be interested, and IIRC, Thome has a no-trade clause. He wants to play in Chicago. Add it all up and Kenny is in the cat-bird's seat on this one.
Unless other GMs get into the bidding. If, say, the Yankees, Orioles, Blue Jays, Twins, and Rangers all want Thome, KW is in a much harder position.

SouthSoxFan
11-18-2005, 02:18 PM
Rowand to Yanks, Chacon or Wang to Phils, Thome + 5mil/yr to Sox

Flight #24
11-18-2005, 02:21 PM
Unless other GMs get into the bidding. If, say, the Yankees, Orioles, Blue Jays, Twins, and Rangers all want Thome, KW is in a much harder position.

Twins will need even more salary relief. Rangers don't exactly need a hitter, but are desperate for pitching. Spankees have Giambi, who they already want to DH, plus have little to offer except $$$ (thought that might be enough).

I don't think the market for Thome is going to be anywhere near that significant.

Domeshot17
11-18-2005, 02:22 PM
Best Case Scenario for the Sox: Phillies lose Wagner, and Thome invokes his no trade and doesnt goto Baltimore, who wants him to be the heir apparent to Juice part Duex. He says send me to Chicago or Minnesota, Chicago can eat slightly more salary, and sends a package of Marte/Jerry Owens(4th best OF spec, kind of lost in the mix of Chris Young, Ryan Sweeney,Brian Anderson+ Rowand etc.).

Worst Case: HE says get me the helllllll outta Philly, goes anywhere in the AL, and if we get him it costs us Rowand-El Duque-B Spec.

I know I keep hearing Rowand is available, but Personally I HIGHLY doubt it. He is the white sox poster boy for the live or die trying, and all the no fear the wall grinder rules, and He did hit 24 home runs 2 years. I think Rowand is going to have a HUGE 2006, Pitchers made alot of adjustments to Rowand(kind of like what happened to Ben Grieve years ago) but Rowand had a solid year. He works so hard that I think next year is a 300-30 campaign for Rowand, I think either him or Crede will establish themselves in the 5 hole in 2006.

My truthful prediction, as much as this HURTS, Thome to the Sox, Delgado the Mets, Manny to the Angels, Rivera+Finley+Shields+Kotchman to the Red Sox, Paulie stays put, and the Big Hurt ends up in Anaheim, closer to his Las Vegas home and DH's 4-5 times a week.

TheOldRoman
11-18-2005, 02:27 PM
Twins will need even more salary relief. Rangers don't exactly need a hitter, but are desperate for pitching. Spankees have Giambi, who they already want to DH, plus have little to offer except $$$ (thought that might be enough).

I don't think the market for Thome is going to be anywhere near that significant.
Maybe not, I was just throwing out names. Besides that, the Rangers are REALLY, REALLY DUMB. I wouldn't put it past them to get another hitter when what they need is 10 new pitchers.
My point was, I dont think it will be as easy as we all think to get Thome. If Thome can be had easily, we should at least make an attempt to go after Helton, seeing as we would then have more leverage. If the Rockies want to move him, and they know we are the only ones who will go near him, they up the ante. Thome is awesome when healthy, but Helton is an unbelievable hitter. I would much rather have him.

Black Sox
11-18-2005, 02:30 PM
The Phils are in a very poor negotiating position. They have no place for Thome to play, so they need to unload as much of his salary as possible. Few, if any, NL teams would be interested, and IIRC, Thome has a no-trade clause. He wants to play in Chicago. Add it all up and Kenny is in the cat-bird's seat on this one.

Good point. The Phills have no leverage. The Sox will be taking on salary so that would be the main factor. Maybe Damaso and a mid-level type prospect would get it done. Age and injury factors in heavily with taking on a portion of his contract.

I think if Kenny can pull this off and resign Paul then we are looking awfulling good this off season. His only remaining business would be taking care of Garland, AJ, and Crede and then patching up the bullpen and seeking out some utility players. I think trading El Duque to free up some extra cash would also be a possibility.

getonbckthr
11-18-2005, 03:29 PM
How about El Duque, Rowand, and Marte for Thome and cash (2 mill/yr). I think it would make sense for both teams involved. For the Sox it would give a top of the line left handed power bat at DH. For Philly it gives them a solid CF, a good starter, and a potentially real good left handed relief pitcher. Financially salary wise it would be a wash. If Orlando doesn't work out for Philly this year it would be the last year of his contract so they wouldn't be responsible any longer past this season. As far as Rowand goes it would open up space for Brian Anderson, and if the Sox don't feel he is ready they could sign a guy like Burnitz for a season or maybe even Bernie Williams to split duties with Anderson as a way to ease him in and give you some OF depth (sorry Timo).

itsnotrequired
11-18-2005, 03:32 PM
How about El Duque, Rowand, and Marte for Thome and cash (2 mill/yr)

$2 mill/yr? No way the Sox touch this for less than $4 mill/yr.

Flight #24
11-18-2005, 03:37 PM
$2 mill/yr? No way the Sox touch this for less than $4 mill/yr.

I think his asusmption was that Duque's $5M in '05 + the $6M ($2M x 3yrs) is approx $4M/yr.

getonbckthr
11-18-2005, 03:38 PM
$2 mill/yr? No way the Sox touch this for less than $4 mill/yr.
Here is the salary information as I found it for 2006:
Rowand=3.25, Herandez=4.5, Marte=2.25 total of WSox=10 million.
Thome=12.5. Difference of WSox contracts and Thome's=2.5 million. Thats where i get the 2 million a year figure.

itsnotrequired
11-18-2005, 03:41 PM
Here is the salary information as I found it for 2006:
Rowand=3.25, Herandez=4.5, Marte=2.25 total of WSox=10 million.
Thome=12.5. Difference of WSox contracts and Thome's=2.5 million. Thats where i get the 2 million a year figure.

Correct but the Sox have the advantage since the Phillies need to get rid of him. No way the Sox would do a straight-up trade, salary wise. If the Sox wanted to trade those players for Thome (which I highly doubt), they would want the PHILLIES to include $2 mil/yr.

getonbckthr
11-18-2005, 03:43 PM
Correct but the Sox have the advantage since the Phillies need to get rid of him. No way the Sox would do a straight-up trade, salary wise. If the Sox wanted to trade those players for Thome (which I highly doubt), they would want the PHILLIES to include $2 mil/yr.

Ya I said that in my original post that Philly would have to include the 2 million.

Flight #24
11-18-2005, 03:48 PM
Here is the salary information as I found it for 2006:
Rowand=3.25, Herandez=4.5, Marte=2.25 total of WSox=10 million.
Thome=12.5. Difference of WSox contracts and Thome's=2.5 million. Thats where i get the 2 million a year figure.

Minor thing, but IIRC, Hernandez reached threshholds that kicked his '06 base to $5M.

getonbckthr
11-18-2005, 04:04 PM
Minor thing, but IIRC, Hernandez reached threshholds that kicked his '06 base to $5M.
According to mlb4u.com (not sure how realible new to the site after finding it posted here) this is the contract:

Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez: signed 2-year worth 8M thru 2006 on 12/22/04- he will make 3.5M in 2005 and at least 4.5M in 2006- + he can earn 1.5M in bonuses in 2005 based on innings pitched: $187,500 for 100IP then $187,500 more per every remaining increment of 10 innings- + a 1/3 of the total amount of whatever amount of the 1.5M in incentives he earns in 2005 is added to his 2006 salary- + he can earn 2M in bonuses in 2006, making the total value of the deal with all incentives earned, 12M

itsnotrequired
11-18-2005, 04:09 PM
Ya I said that in my original post that Philly would have to include the 2 million.

Bah, I read it wrong.:redface:

Is it 5:00 yet?:gulp:

caulfield12
11-18-2005, 05:41 PM
Rowand to Yanks, Chacon or Wang to Phils, Thome + 5mil/yr to Sox

I am sure the Yankees would not trade Wang for Rowand, essentially.

Chacon, maybe....but they have to wait and see if Pavano is healthy first. Chacon was a horse for them in the second half.

Jaret Wright is his usual question mark and Aaron Small might have been a one year wonder. No way the Yankees deal Wang though. He is one of the few affordable, young pitchers they possess.

Optipessimism
11-18-2005, 06:46 PM
The Padres and Rangers are talking about a trade that would send catcher Gerald Laird, center fielder Laynce Nix and first baseman Adrian Gonzalez to San Diego for starting pitcher Adam Eaton and second baseman Mark Loretta.

The Pads are looking to pull a KW and really shake that team up. I like the above move for them a lot if it goes. Nix and Cameron will really help in that OF, Gonzalez gives them a 1B, and Laird an option to back up Olivo who they think is going to finally get it turned around. I guess this means no Ramon Hernandez, but with Cameron/Nix/Castilla they more than make up for that offense IMO.

getonbckthr
11-18-2005, 06:56 PM
The Pads are looking to pull a KW and really shake that team up. I like the above move for them a lot if it goes. Nix and Cameron will really help in that OF, Gonzalez gives them a 1B, and Laird an option to back up Olivo who they think is going to finally get it turned around. I guess this means no Ramon Hernandez, but with Cameron/Nix/Castilla they more than make up for that offense IMO.
I think the Padres should go after players that hit for average and speed. Power hitters will not succeed in the anti-Coors Field. They should attempt to sign Moyer and Washburn to sure up their staff.

Optipessimism
11-18-2005, 07:00 PM
I think the Padres should go after players that hit for average and speed. Power hitters will not succeed in the anti-Coors Field. They should attempt to sign Moyer and Washburn to sure up their staff.

When I said Cameron and Nix would help in their outfield I meant they would help by catching the ball. Defense is important too. BTW, every single team would be better off with speedy players who hit for average. We should get them too, but umm, where are they?

balke
11-18-2005, 10:25 PM
Didn't Thome say he hates the White Sox? I thought he was a HUGE CUBS FAN! He's from the Chicagoland area right? I was always told he's a Sox hating Cubs fan. And he's also DESTROYED us in all the games I've seen him play in. I'm just wondering why he'd want to play with the Sox. He would be a good fit though if the Sox won't have Frank around.

Tragg
11-18-2005, 10:44 PM
Didn't Thome say he hates the White Sox? .
He made some disparaging comments when Belle signed with us. That was, obviously, a good while ago.

TheOldRoman
11-18-2005, 11:09 PM
Didn't Thome say he hates the White Sox? I thought he was a HUGE CUBS FAN! He's from the Chicagoland area right? I was always told he's a Sox hating Cubs fan. And he's also DESTROYED us in all the games I've seen him play in. I'm just wondering why he'd want to play with the Sox. He would be a good fit though if the Sox won't have Frank around.
He is from Peoria, so Im sure he didn't have much exposure to the Sox, Comiskey Park, or Sox fans while growing up. I know that he is a lifelong Cubs fan, but he would love to come to the Sox. It was a while ago so I dont remember, but I heard that either he said pubically he would like to come to the Sox or he has a limited trade clause and the Sox are one of the teams he can be traded to.

oeo
11-18-2005, 11:21 PM
Didn't Thome say he hates the White Sox? I thought he was a HUGE CUBS FAN! He's from the Chicagoland area right? I was always told he's a Sox hating Cubs fan. And he's also DESTROYED us in all the games I've seen him play in. I'm just wondering why he'd want to play with the Sox. He would be a good fit though if the Sox won't have Frank around.

Things change when you win a World Championship. :cool:

Flight #24
11-18-2005, 11:29 PM
Things change when you win a World Championship. :cool:

And when the player is coming off of multiple injury seasons and beginning to greater appreciate the availability of the DH rule....