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HotelWhiteSox
11-16-2005, 06:19 PM
I posted this in 'What's The Score' on purpose, because of the source, so take it with a grain of salt.

During Boers and Bernstein, Boers said his 'sources' are telling him that the White Sox "really, really, really, really, really, really, really want Jim Thome", (and I think he said really more times than that) and that they thought Konerko was as good as gone. Bernstein responded that what he's heard is they just don't want to wait too long (similar to Houston with Beltran last year) for Konerko's decision, but Boers said even without that, his inside people told him they think he's gone.


Again, it is Boers and Bernstein, if anything, I'd agree with that I wouldn't want to take too long and be handcuffed by Konerko. There is an obvious chance of him not coming back, and you'd like to get a suitable replacement. Thome is obviously the goods, but there's question on injuries and iffy stats before he got hurt. Also, what would we give up for him?

Well, I'm sure KW has been looking at all his options and is pursuing what he wants, but some hot stove speculation when its a little chilly outside :D:

Erik The Red
11-16-2005, 06:22 PM
:thud: .

soxfan123
11-16-2005, 06:22 PM
Well, if we can't sign Konerko, that's fine. But, however, if Konerko is an option, the no way. Konerko is a leader and has a much smaller downside than Thome. I'd like to get delgado, but I think I may be dreaming.

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2005, 06:31 PM
I posted this in 'What's The Score' on purpose, because of the source, so take it with a grain of salt.

During Boers and Bernstein, Boers said his 'sources' are telling him that the White Sox "really, really, really, really, really, really, really want Jim Thome", (and I think he said really more times than that) and that they thought Konerko was as good as gone. Bernstein responded that what he's heard is they just don't want to wait too long (similar to Houston with Beltran last year) for Konerko's decision, but Boers said even without that, his inside people told him they think he's gone.


Again, it is Boers and Bernstein, if anything, I'd agree with that I wouldn't want to take too long and be handcuffed by Konerko. There is an obvious chance of him not coming back, and you'd like to get a suitable replacement. Thome is obviously the goods, but there's question on injuries and iffy stats before he got hurt. Also, what would we give up for him?

Well, I'm sure KW has been looking at all his options and is pursuing what he wants, but some hot stove speculation when its a little chilly outside :D:What Bores neglected to say was that his "source" is his dog. Pay no attention to these clowns.

Optipessimism
11-16-2005, 06:31 PM
If Thome's healthy I take him over Paulie any day of the week, especially playing in the Cell. On the positive side, I think that a Thome move could be made without giving up too much so long as we took on that salary. That could allow KW to make a play at a guy like Overbay or Tracy too, although I think Lyle would be a bit cheaper. This would give us 2 LH bats, one DH and one at 1B, who could alternate. In the event that Frank returns and is healthy enough to play 100 games or so, Overbay could come off the bench and give Thome and Thomas nights off. This would also give us a nice lefty/righty balance throughout the order.

While Delgado would be the preferred choice, I don't think we get him unless we either take on Lowell's contract or overpay for for just Carlos, while still taking on his entire contract.

miker
11-16-2005, 06:38 PM
If Thome's healthy ...
That's a really big if, at this point.

santo=dorf
11-16-2005, 06:41 PM
What Bores neglected to say was that his "source" is his dog. Pay no attention to these clowns.
More likely the USA Today.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bbw/columnist/nightengale/2005-11-16-majors_x.htm

ChiWhiteSox1337
11-16-2005, 06:49 PM
Wow. It's hard to imagine the possibility of Thome becoming a White Sox. I think he has nearly 50 career HRs against the White Sox. If the Sox get him, hopefully he can do that to non-Sox pitching as well(judging on his career numbers, he can). :D:

Optipessimism
11-16-2005, 06:49 PM
That's a really big if, at this point.

True, but KW doesn't seem like the type of guy to shy away from a chance. I mean, you never really know anyway. Any player is subject to a major injury at any given time, so it's a risk no matter what. IMO, there will be teams taking a big risk on PK as well in hoping that he can replicate his numbers inside the Cell at other ballparks. Someone could end up giving him a huge deal and end up getting a .265 30 100 guy, which would still be good production but not worth the money.

patbooyah
11-16-2005, 06:55 PM
maybe someone can shed some light on why thome only hit .207 this season... was it mainly injury related?

i notice he had 45 walks in 193 at bats... was there no one to protect him?

DumpJerry
11-16-2005, 07:02 PM
The USA Today article mentioned that the Sox are concerned about Crede's back problems as the reason for their alleged pursuit of Mueller.

The article failed to mention another, more serious, problem that could result in a FA Crede winding up with someone else:
:borass:
Joe's my boy.

Professor
11-16-2005, 07:04 PM
maybe someone can shed some light on why thome only hit .207 this season... was it mainly injury related?

i notice he had 45 walks in 193 at bats... was there no one to protect him?

Only Bobby Abreu...

Taliesinrk
11-16-2005, 07:09 PM
maybe someone can shed some light on why thome only hit .207 this season... was it mainly injury related?

i notice he had 45 walks in 193 at bats... was there no one to protect him?

All I know is that that .207 certainly didn't help my fantasy team.. That said, an order looking like Thomas/Thome/Dye doesn't sound all that bad.. I'd be interested in what we'd be giving up..
What's Thome due to make in the next couple of years?

gr8mexico
11-16-2005, 07:39 PM
Just think if the Sox can have Philly take on most of his contract and then the Sox turn around and sign Paulie. The Lineup would look like this 1.Pods 2.Iguchi 3.Paulie 4.Thome 5.Dye 6.A.J 7.Rowand 8.Crede 9.Uribe. I think at this point the Phillies just want Thome to leave to make room for Howard.

Unregistered
11-16-2005, 07:56 PM
Delgado I get excited for. Thome? Not so much...

RowandKicksAss07
11-16-2005, 08:31 PM
I think it's nearly impossible for the Sox to acquire Thome and in trun keep Konerko. Their salaries just wouldn't allow for that to happen. Paulie is a great player and a great team guy, but I'm not so sure he's worth all the money he wants to get. I also agree with a previous poster who said that Paulie's numbers could drop being away from the Cell. Thome could onyl flourish playing here. He's used to the American League...he's a left handed power hitter that the Sox have wanted for so long. I don't think just acquring Thome would be the end of the Sox's moves this offseason. I dont know about anyone else, but I think I got a chubby when the USA Today article said that Kenny will be agressive this offseason...I love hearing those words!

Jjav829
11-16-2005, 09:27 PM
maybe someone can shed some light on why thome only hit .207 this season... was it mainly injury related?

i notice he had 45 walks in 193 at bats... was there no one to protect him?

It was all injury related. Thome had elbow problems all year long until he finally underwent surgery in August. He definitely would have had protection in that lineup if he could have remained healthy.

duke of dorwood
11-16-2005, 09:44 PM
What Bores neglected to say was that his "source" is his dog. Pay no attention to these clowns.

100% Correct

Flight #24
11-16-2005, 09:58 PM
I think it's nearly impossible for the Sox to acquire Thome and in trun keep Konerko. Their salaries just wouldn't allow for that to happen. Paulie is a great player and a great team guy, but I'm not so sure he's worth all the money he wants to get. I also agree with a previous poster who said that Paulie's numbers could drop being away from the Cell. Thome could onyl flourish playing here. He's used to the American League...he's a left handed power hitter that the Sox have wanted for so long. I don't think just acquring Thome would be the end of the Sox's moves this offseason. I dont know about anyone else, but I think I got a chubby when the USA Today article said that Kenny will be agressive this offseason...I love hearing those words!

"Word is" that the Sox want to acquire a LH power bat EVEN IF they resign Paulie, which is why they've been linked so far to Helton, Delgado, & Thome
"Word is" that Philly would be willing to eat a bunch of Thome's deal to move him and free up some money for other things (plus open up a spot for Howard @ 1B)
"Word is" that the Sox have already made Paulie a better offer than the initial LA offer

So based on the available information, it doesn't seem that unlikely that they're inquiring about Thome with the idea of possibly having him DH.

As far as his 2005 stats, he struggled through elbow problems & ended up having Tommy John surgery. Something that I can imagine would mess up your swing. I'd bet for a bounceback, and in fact, with extra time off, his usual issues with his back may be significantly improved.

Lip Man 1
11-16-2005, 10:05 PM
Flight:

Did you see in that column the report that the Angels have offered Konerko 5 years, 65 million?

Have the Sox even made an offer yet?

Lip

It's Time
11-16-2005, 10:09 PM
Flight:

Did you see in that column the report that the Angels have offered Konerko 5 years, 65 million?

Have the Sox even made an offer yet?

Lip

What?:?: :o:

Tragg
11-16-2005, 10:11 PM
"Word is" that the Sox want to acquire a LH power bat EVEN IF they resign Paulie, which is why they've been linked so far to Helton, Delgado, & Thome
"Word is" that Philly would be willing to eat a bunch of Thome's deal to move him and free up some money for other things (plus open up a spot for Howard @ 1B)
"Word is" that the Sox have already made Paulie a better offer than the initial LA offer

So based on the available information, it doesn't seem that unlikely that they're inquiring about Thome with the idea of possibly having him DH.

As far as his 2005 stats, he struggled through elbow problems & ended up having Tommy John surgery. Something that I can imagine would mess up your swing. I'd bet for a bounceback, and in fact, with extra time off, his usual issues with his back may be significantly improved.

What kind of talent do we give up? Will Rowand get it done? (they need a CF badly). He should, as Thome is a big risk.

It's Time
11-16-2005, 10:13 PM
What kind of talent do we give up? Will Rowand get it done? (they need a CF badly). He should, as Thome is a big risk.

No way just Rowand gets it done. You can bet your ass that they will want Chris Young as well.

Jjav829
11-16-2005, 10:20 PM
What kind of talent do we give up? Will Rowand get it done? (they need a CF badly). He should, as Thome is a big risk.

It depends on how much salary they eat. The more salary we ask them to eat, the more they will want in return. If we were to take Thome's entire contract off their hands, we wouldn't have to give up very much.

It's Time
11-16-2005, 10:22 PM
It depends on how much salary they eat. The more salary we ask them to eat, the more they will want in return. If we were to take Thome's entire contract off their hands, we wouldn't have to give up very much.

But we know that will not happen. Which means Young will be a wanted man in any deal to acquire a guy like Thome.

DickAllen72
11-16-2005, 10:22 PM
No way just Rowand gets it done. You can bet your ass that they will want Chris Young as well.

Then they better be picking up 2/3rds of Thome's contract!

Thome is a big injury risk. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him as a DH, but not as a replacement for Konerko at 1B.

Also, there is no way the Sox should carry Konerko, Thome and Frank on their roster. If Paulie signs and they trade for Thome, they should not even tender Frank a contract. If the Sox believe Frank can still play, they should avoid Thome and try to sign someone like Giles or trade for someone like Abreu.

BTW, Boers and Bernstein don't know anything.

nodiggity59
11-16-2005, 10:23 PM
It depends on how much salary they eat. The more salary we ask them to eat, the more they will want in return. If we were to take Thome's entire contract off their hands, we wouldn't have to give up very much.

If we took the whole deal, the Phillies would do this trade for Joe Borchard. I think a Rowand, Marte, mid prospect deal can get them to kick in close to half of the deal. Remember, it looks like they're losing Wagner and they already lost Urbina, so they'd certainly be interested in Damaso.

Flight #24
11-16-2005, 10:23 PM
Flight:

Did you see in that column the report that the Angels have offered Konerko 5 years, 65 million?

Have the Sox even made an offer yet?

Lip

It doesn't say that. It says "for a potential 5 year $65M offer". Not that one was offered. There are no reports of such a deal actually being offered. In fact, FWIW - Jayson Stark was on AM1000 this AM saying that the Sox first offer (whether officially presented or just communicated) to Paulie was already as much or more than he (Stark) thought Paulie'd get in the end.

It's Time
11-16-2005, 10:24 PM
BTW, Boers and Bernstein don't know anything.

You can say that about anyone who works for that 2nd rate, pathetic station.:)

Brian26
11-16-2005, 10:28 PM
I know Belle had a nice 2nd half in '98, and Colon was decent in 2003 (although sometimes underwhelming), but the lovefest over ex-Indians has to stop (Lofton, Sandy Alomar, Robbie Alomar, Colon, Vizquel almost, now Thome, Belle)....

nodiggity59
11-16-2005, 10:30 PM
I know Belle had a nice 2nd half in '98, and Colon was decent in 2003 (although sometimes underwhelming), but the lovefest over ex-Indians has to stop (Lofton, Sandy Alomar, Robbie Alomar, Colon, Vizquel almost, now Thome, Belle)....

Are you willing to include Giles?:redneck

kevin57
11-16-2005, 11:38 PM
There was a passing reference on Bores & Bernstein tonight about "inside" info. from Sox Headquarters that there is GREAT interest in Thome. The thought is that Konerko is GONE...as some have feared...or if not gone, then we can't afford to go through an extended process of negotiation, only to lose PK in the end and have nothing to fall back on.

ATXBMX
11-16-2005, 11:40 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=62370

TomBradley72
11-16-2005, 11:52 PM
The whole tone of the article makes it sound like we're pursuing Thome primarily as a DH...not good for the Big Hurt's future with the WSox (combined with KW's recent comments about waiting to see about his health and Ozzie's comments about not making roster decisions based on your heart). Paulie wants to come back. KW wants him back. Ozzie wants him back. For once we actually have the money. PK will come back. Imagine a healthy, left handed hitting Thome helping to break up our line up...would be a huge upgrade from 2005....great hot stove day dreaming....I'll believe it when I see it.

I did like KW's comments about being aggressive and "out of the box".....no complacency setting in.

Tragg
11-17-2005, 12:07 AM
No way just Rowand gets it done. You can bet your ass that they will want Chris Young as well.
An old high priced player coming off a serious injury. Ridiculous. A major league starting center fielder, one of the best defenders at his position, for a risky player like Thome seems right to me.

Delgado is in a different paradigm from Thome- he is a top hitter. Nevertheless, YOung is off limits in any trade in my book; we have other prospects and plenty of teams protect their top prospects.

We've been sellers before and we didn't get anything close to top prospects of other teams. No sense in us giving up our top prospect.
And remember, we took the light side of the talent in the Lee trade when we lost salary. Time to return the favor.

Domeshot17
11-17-2005, 12:12 AM
If it was possible to know if Thome was going to give gus 260-30-100 That would be nice. What scares me is like everyone else is the injury. The good news is Thome would have to pass a physical to come here, so we would know more about the injury and how hurt he would be coming into the season.

Becase of all the ??????? with Thome, I have kind of developed the thought that as a compliment to Paulie, I will take it, We won with Everett, and thats about as low on the food chain as a winning team can get away with at DH (atleast a DH in the middle of the order). If Frank is back, we are looking at best 400 at bats from this year, my guess would be closer to 330-350 ( about 55-60%). I would not take Thome without a steady 1b or DH however. He is a paulie type, not a spectatular Defender, but he can pick it and anything in his general area he sucks up. But maybe a move to DH will help bring Thome back to form.

This does however, go against the wish of getting younger and faster.

gr8mexico
11-17-2005, 12:23 AM
I cant believe there are people in here that would rather have Griffey JR then Thome. Before the trade deadline people sead we need more power and wanted Kenny to bring in Griffey now Kenny might have a chance to bring in a stud LH power hitter that can hit more then 50 Homeruns and drive in 100 + RBI's and alot people dont seem happy with it. JR would be a higher risk then Thome

MadetoOrta
11-17-2005, 12:34 AM
An old high priced player coming off a serious injury. Ridiculous. A major league starting center fielder, one of the best defenders at his position, for a risky player like Thome seems right to me.

Delgado is in a different paradigm from Thome- he is a top hitter. Nevertheless, YOung is off limits in any trade in my book; we have other prospects and plenty of teams protect their top prospects.

We've been sellers before and we didn't get anything close to top prospects of other teams. No sense in us giving up our top prospect.
And remember, we took the light side of the talent in the Lee trade when we lost salary. Time to return the favor.

I totally agree about Chris Young. When we were struggling in late August, I could live with parting with him for Griffey Jr. if it meant a playoff appearance. [Little did we know then ...] Now that we've got our ring, $%@# 'em! Chris Young is a non-starter. Homegrown everyday position players are worth their weight in gold in today's baseball economics. I love Delgado's bat and what he could for our line-up but not enough to give up Chris Young.

Domeshot17
11-17-2005, 12:39 AM
I cant believe there are people in here that would rather have Griffey JR then Thome. Before the trade deadline people sead we need more power and wanted Kenny to bring in Griffey now Kenny might have a chance to bring in a stud LH power hitter that can hit more then 50 Homeruns and drive in 100 + RBI's and alot people dont seem happy with it. JR would be a higher risk then Thome

(1) Thome will NEVER hit 50 again. Age has kicked in, and hes coming off a serious injury.

(2) Griffey Proved he can still play. He waited to see if he would be traded to have his surgery, but all it was was a surgery cleaning up old injuries. Thome is coming off a .207 next to nothing Power wise year.

(3) At the time, it was Griffey or bust. He was the only true Lefty hitter out there to improve the team. Too many teams still in the race.

(4) The Inuries Thome had, the Shoulder surgery and the leg soarness are a huge part of the ?. He gets his power from his explosive swing, and that takes its toll on a body. Also, I know when he wasnt hitting homers when the year started, some reporters were wondering if he was a juicer.

(5) What can we expect from griffey? 275-35-115 with great D. What can we expect from Thome? <Randy Moss Immitation>

Bottomline: We don't know if Thome is healthy, and we also don't know if we can live with a ? making insane money. Griffey made 6.5 a year and some deferrals. Thome makes almost 2 1/2 times that.

likeawarlord
11-17-2005, 01:16 AM
Bottomline: We don't know if Thome is healthy, and we also don't know if we can live with a ? making insane money. Griffey made 6.5 a year and some deferrals. Thome makes almost 2 1/2 times that.

what we can expect from griffey is about 200 abs and video of him grabbing his hamstring as he rounds third base in spring training.

Tragg
11-17-2005, 01:22 AM
I totally agree about Chris Young. When we were struggling in late August, I could live with parting with him for Griffey Jr. if it meant a playoff appearance. [Little did we know then ...] Now that we've got our ring, $%@# 'em! Chris Young is a non-starter. Homegrown everyday position players are worth their weight in gold in today's baseball economics. I love Delgado's bat and what he could for our line-up but not enough to give up Chris Young.

The other thing to consider re Young is the timing. We don't really need, right now, one of our minor league outfielders. So I'd rather give up one of the more developed ones, because he'd likely be riding the pine anyway. Young should be ready for 07 or maybe 08, right when we'll need him.

TheOldRoman
11-17-2005, 01:36 AM
This quote tells me that KW is going to get either Delgado, Thome, or Helton:
The whole of the team is more important than any individual piece. We want Paul back, and I'm optimistic something will work out. But we have to make plans to protect ourselves. And if we can get Paul back, too, it'll make us that much stronger.
KW will not be handcuffed like the Astros were last year with Beltran. He will bring in a first base slugger, and move him to DH fulltime if Konerko resigns.

Corlose 15
11-17-2005, 03:09 AM
This quote tells me that KW is going to get either Delgado, Thome, or Helton:

KW will not be handcuffed like the Astros were last year with Beltran. He will bring in a first base slugger, and move him to DH fulltime if Konerko resigns.


If KW was able to get Konerko to resign and pick up one of those three. :drool::drool::drool: That lineup would be rather imposing, and balanced.

gr8mexico
11-17-2005, 08:23 AM
(5) What can we expect from griffey? 275-35-115 with great D. What can we expect from Thome? <Randy Moss Immitation>

Bottomline: We don't know if Thome is healthy, and we also don't know if we can live with a ? making insane money. Griffey made 6.5 a year and some deferrals. Thome makes almost 2 1/2 times that.[/QUOTE] Yes Griffey used to be a great CF but not anymore.Griffey hamstring is a huge risk especially if he has to play CF in late Sept. early Oct in the cold.If the Sox make a trade for Thome you know for a fact that KW will want the Phillies to take on most of Thome contract and he would DH all the time if the Sox resign Paulie.I think everyone can trust KW when making a trade because so far KW hasn't giving up a stud yet.

TomBradley72
11-17-2005, 09:00 AM
How serious was Thome's elbow injury? This article makes it sound like it mostly affected his throwing. Clearly his hitting stats were impacted...but in 2004 he hit: .274-42-105....is an elbow injury like his really a sign of "age setting in" and the begginning of him "breaking down" at 35? He had surgery in August...and they estimated 3 month recovery time. He seems like a left handed version of PK to me...a real gamer, solid in the clubhouse...it would be a calculated risk....but that's KW's style....

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050810&content_id=1165574&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi

Jjav829
11-17-2005, 09:07 AM
Phillies GM Pat Gillick in the Philadelphia Daily News (http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13109611.htm) last week:
Gillick said head trainer Jeff Cooper saw Thome recently.

"Coop says he's in tremendous condition, the best in 3 or 4 years," Gillick said.

Hey, that guy stole Don Cooper's nickname. :redneck

Also, in today's Minneapolis Star Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/stories/507/5731750.html) Twins GM Terry Ryan claims that he wouldn't consider trading for Thome until spring training when he can see how Thome has recovered from his elbow surgery.

That could be good news for us. If other teams are thinking the same way, perhaps the Phillies would be willing to pay more of Thome's salary to get rid of him early.

Flight #24
11-17-2005, 09:54 AM
(5) What can we expect from griffey? 275-35-115 with great D. What can we expect from Thome? <Randy Moss Immitation>

Bottomline: We don't know if Thome is healthy, and we also don't know if we can live with a ? making insane money. Griffey made 6.5 a year and some deferrals. Thome makes almost 2 1/2 times that.

I think the point of Thome is that you have similar upside and PHL would throw in cash just to get rid of him and open up a spot for Howard, so it wouldn't be insane money.

Tragg
11-17-2005, 10:16 AM
Bottomline: We don't know if Thome is healthy, and we also don't know if we can live with a ? making insane money. Griffey made 6.5 a year and some deferrals. Thome makes almost 2 1/2 times that.
A Griffey injury is an annual event - he's a risk too. He's also owed a ton of deferred money - someone worked it out in July, but it's not a pretty sight.

There's a thread on the Yankee board that their version, I suppose, of Boers and Bernstein says that the Yanks/Sox are working on a 3 way involving sending Rowand to the Yanks. I think they are a good partner because they can send a pitcher somewhere, which should be worth a good bit to us.

Ol' No. 2
11-17-2005, 11:40 AM
Phillies GM Pat Gillick in the Philadelphia Daily News (http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13109611.htm) last week:


Hey, that guy stole Don Cooper's nickname. :redneck

Also, in today's Minneapolis Star Tribune (http://www.startribune.com/stories/507/5731750.html) Twins GM Terry Ryan claims that he wouldn't consider trading for Thome until spring training when he can see how Thome has recovered from his elbow surgery.

That could be good news for us. If other teams are thinking the same way, perhaps the Phillies would be willing to pay more of Thome's salary to get rid of him early.
Thome also spent time on the DL earlier in the season with back problems. He's getting to the age where this could become a persistent thing. I'd want to know more about his back problem before making any kind of committment.

Randar68
11-17-2005, 11:47 AM
A Griffey injury is an annual event - he's a risk too. He's also owed a ton of deferred money - someone worked it out in July, but it's not a pretty sight.

There's a thread on the Yankee board that their version, I suppose, of Boers and Bernstein says that the Yanks/Sox are working on a 3 way involving sending Rowand to the Yanks. I think they are a good partner because they can send a pitcher somewhere, which should be worth a good bit to us.

THE SOX WOULD NOT BE LIABLE FOR ALL DEFERRED SALARY RELATED TO THE YEARS HE SPENT IN CINCI.

How many times you gotta say that? It matter not a single iota if discussing his cost to the Sox. Period. Sox would only be liable for his salary and deferrals related to any seasons he plays in Chicago, less any money Cinci would pick up.

I don't think anything would happen, but just get the facts straight and lay it all out there. These half-ass information posts full of partial and incomplete stories just adds to what is already confusing enough.

Randar68
11-17-2005, 11:48 AM
Thome also spent time on the DL earlier in the season with back problems. He's getting to the age where this could become a persistent thing. I'd want to know more about his back problem before making any kind of committment.

I would also be more worried with his back than his elbow. Just have to check it out in detail.

Flight #24
11-17-2005, 12:19 PM
THE SOX WOULD NOT BE LIABLE FOR ALL DEFERRED SALARY RELATED TO THE YEARS HE SPENT IN CINCI.

How many times you gotta say that? It matter not a single iota if discussing his cost to the Sox. Period. Sox would only be liable for his salary and deferrals related to any seasons he plays in Chicago, less any money Cinci would pick up.

I don't think anything would happen, but just get the facts straight and lay it all out there. These half-ass information posts full of partial and incomplete stories just adds to what is already confusing enough.

Just to be clear on what we're talking about salary-wise. All of these numbers are before and cash coming along in the deal, which would depend on how late it is in the offseason (how desperate both teams are) and what talent the Sox send back.

Thome: 2006-$12.5, 2007-$14, 2008-$14, 2009 team option-$13 (option vests based on PA)-->Total $40/3 or $53/4

Griffey: $12.5M each year 2006-2008, $6.5M of which is deferred at 4% to 2009-2024. There's also a 2009 team option or $4M buyout. Tought ov alue it exactly because of the deferrals, but I'd bet the Sox can get more than 4% on the deferred $$$ owed to Griff, so it'll come in somewhat less than $41.5/3

Delgado: 2006-$13.5, 2007-$14.4, 2008-$16, 2009 team option at $13 or $4M buyout. -->Total $48/3 or $57/4 before the tax equalization clause

Helton: $16.6M each year 2006-2010, then 2011-$19.1, 2012 team option at $23M:o: or $4M buyout. He can become FA after 2007 (unlikely). -->Total $106/6 or $125/7

Obviously Helton will almost certainly come with the most cash for the least talent given up in exchange. But it's worth noting that Griffey's probably the cheapest because of the deferrals, but that Thome might come in similarly since while he's got no deferrals, he'll get the most cash sent along with him. Delgado's the most expensive of the non-Helton guys, but also has no significant injury history.

gr8mexico
11-17-2005, 12:34 PM
I would also be more worried with his back than his elbow. Just have to check it out in detail. If the Phillies do trade Thome to the Sox I think Kenny and Ozzie would want Thome to DH full time giving him alot of rest.Knowing Kenny I think he would ask the Phillies to eat a good chunk of Thome's contract just like the Sox got the Yankees to pay some of Contreras contract.KW always finds away to make things work out. The Sox will raise the payroll but not alot and thats why I feel either Thome, Delgado or even Helton (PLZ) have a really good chance of playing in a Sox uniform next year.

pdimas
11-17-2005, 12:44 PM
A Griffey injury is an annual event - he's a risk too. He's also owed a ton of deferred money - someone worked it out in July, but it's not a pretty sight.

There's a thread on the Yankee board that their version, I suppose, of Boers and Bernstein says that the Yanks/Sox are working on a 3 way involving sending Rowand to the Yanks. I think they are a good partner because they can send a pitcher somewhere, which should be worth a good bit to us.

Do you have a link?

chitown13
11-17-2005, 01:16 PM
http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTMmZmdi ZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY4MTcyNDkmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZU VFeXk2

illinibk
11-17-2005, 02:17 PM
I still don't get the obession with Thome. He is old and broken down. Strikes out too much. Probably only a DH. Who is to say he won't be on the DL again this season for a significant period of time? He was a Sox killer in the past, and I think if the Kenny were to trade for him, he would continue to be a Sox killer, by either taking up a significant portion of the payroll, being on the DL too much, or just being well past his prime. If Kenny is going to pay that much, just give me Helton or Delgado.

Tragg
11-17-2005, 02:57 PM
THE SOX WOULD NOT BE LIABLE FOR ALL DEFERRED SALARY RELATED TO THE YEARS HE SPENT IN CINCI.


Randar,

The deferred salary grows each year he's under contract; we'd be liable for that growth, which, if I may be bold, is signficant.

Randar68
11-17-2005, 03:10 PM
Randar,

The deferred salary grows each year he's under contract; we'd be liable for that growth, which, if I may be bold, is signficant.
LOL! The interest they are paying on the deferred money is less than a small-scale 12-month CD rate.

The real-value of the deferred portion of each-year's salary is less than the present day value by the time they pay out. From the end of the contract, the Reds will owe the money for the first X number of years, where 'X' stands for the number of years he has spent in a Cinci uniform before being traded. The Sox would then be responsible for the deferred salary for Y years beyond that, 'Y' being the number of years the Sox had him under contract.

For instance, if you needed to pay Griffey 6.5 million dollars 6 years from now, you'd only have to invest approximately 4.58 million today at 6% (extremely conservative rate of return on a chunk of money that size even if invested very conservatively) to have that $6.5 million at the end of 2011.


You are being FAR too bold and without basis in fact for doing so.



Oh yeah, and here's his actual contract info:


9-Year worth 116.5M- he will make between 2000 and 2008 a salary of 12.5M each year- + in 2000, 5.5M of salary deferred till 2009- + deal includes 2009 Team Option or a 4M buyout- + 6.5M annually of 2001-2009 salaries deferred to subsequent years between 2009 and 2024 at 4% interest- + will only accept trades to Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles and St. Louis

Flight #24
11-17-2005, 03:28 PM
For instance, if you needed to pay Griffey 6.5 million dollars 6 years from now, you'd only have to invest approximately 4.58 million today at 6% (extremely conservative rate of return on a chunk of money that size even if invested very conservatively) to have that $6.5 million at the end of 2011.


Taking the difference between the 4% growth and the conservative 6% return the Sox could get, the amount the Sox would need to invest in 2006 to have the appropriate amount in 2012 would be $5.79, or roughly $1M less than the actual amount deferred.

Whitesox4ever
11-17-2005, 03:32 PM
Do you think KW will have any interest in trading for Jason Giambi. I think he would be a good fit for the DH role

Frater Perdurabo
11-17-2005, 03:40 PM
Do you think KW will have any interest in trading for Jason Giambi. I think he would be a good fit for the DH role

Only if they can sign another guy to be Giambi's DP (designated pisser) so Giambi can start roiding again without being caught.....

:)

Tragg
11-17-2005, 06:46 PM
9-Year worth 116.5M- he will make between 2000 and 2008 a salary of 12.5M each year- + in 2000, 5.5M of salary deferred till 2009- + deal includes 2009 Team Option or a 4M buyout- + 6.5M annually of 2001-2009 salaries deferred to subsequent years between 2009 and 2024 at 4% interest- + will only accept trades to Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles and St. Louis

I wasn't talking about the interest - that's a wash (and perhaps better for the team if rates keep going up). I guess I misread it; I thought it was 12.5 current salary plus an additional 6.5 annually deferred - that 6.5 deferral is what I meant was "significant", "not a pretty sight", etc.
Sorreee.

Fantosme
11-17-2005, 08:18 PM
It doesn't sound like the Phillies are just going to give Thome away; they reportedly asked Seattle for Felix Hernandez in exchange for him.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002628407_mari17.html
(middle of the page)

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 03:44 PM
I think it's nearly impossible for the Sox to acquire Thome and in trun keep Konerko. Their salaries just wouldn't allow for that to happen. Paulie is a great player and a great team guy, but I'm not so sure he's worth all the money he wants to get. I also agree with a previous poster who said that Paulie's numbers could drop being away from the Cell. Thome could onyl flourish playing here. He's used to the American League...he's a left handed power hitter that the Sox have wanted for so long. I don't think just acquring Thome would be the end of the Sox's moves this offseason.

The problem as I see it is the sox would essentially be in the same boat - they'd still need a legitimate #3 hitter at 1b or DH. Considering Thome's age and health, the fact Konerko is still under 30 and in his prime, the benefit of sending a message to the rest of the organization that if you produce and lead us to the WS that you'll be rewarded, I'd rather just overpay for Konerko.

Depending how much of the contract the Phils would be willing to eat, Thome could end up being a burden, without saving much money over Konerko. True, Thome could possibly out-produce Konerko - Konerko would certainly have to be considered the safe bet. You wouldn't have to trade anyone, necessarily, to sign PK, either. I'd assume they'd want Rowand in a deal for Thome - which could leave the sox with a very hard to fill hole in CF if Anderson is a bust, which would have to be considered a pretty good likelyhood.

getonbckthr
11-18-2005, 03:47 PM
It doesn't sound like the Phillies are just going to give Thome away; they reportedly asked Seattle for Felix Hernandez in exchange for him.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002628407_mari17.html
(middle of the page)
Asking for Hernandez is hardly giving him away.

Randar68
11-18-2005, 03:57 PM
I'd assume they'd want Rowand in a deal for Thome - which could leave the sox with a very hard to fill hole in CF if Anderson is a bust, which would have to be considered a pretty good likelyhood.

:?:

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 04:29 PM
:?:

I assume you don't think there's much chance of Anderson being a bust? He hasn't done anything to move beyond prospect status as far as I'm concerned, and there's been plenty of more highly touted prospects than Anderson who have busted. Rowand, meanwhile, is an established major leaguer; Anderson, and any other sox OF prospect, has a long ways to go before he can make that claim. I don't get your 'confusion'? You surely can't be that confident that Anderson has already established himself as a bona fide major league starter, can you?

Tragg
11-18-2005, 04:52 PM
which could leave the sox with a very hard to fill hole in CF if Anderson is a bust, which would have to be considered a pretty good likelyhood.

I look at it this way.
There is very little chance that Anderson is a bust defensively; and defense is really where Rowand's value lies.
Now we aren't giving Rowand away - presumably we are trading him for a quality hitter. So, even if Anderson is a bust offensively, we still have the hitter we got for Rowand, which leaves us still better off than we were had we not traded Rowand (if the hitter is a better hitter than Rowand, which I owuld hope he would be).

caulfield12
11-18-2005, 05:34 PM
Only Bobby Abreu...

Have you forgotten Pat Burrell, Utley, etc. The Phillies have a pretty decent offensive line-up.

caulfield12
11-18-2005, 05:36 PM
:?:

The White Sox believe Chris Young is their CF of the future, and it could be as early as mid-season or September.

Anderson has always been ticketed for LF or RF.

They also have Owens and Pods that could play CF. The White Sox are fine.

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 05:39 PM
I look at it this way.
There is very little chance that Anderson is a bust defensively; and defense is really where Rowand's value lies.
Now we aren't giving Rowand away - presumably we are trading him for a quality hitter. So, even if Anderson is a bust offensively, we still have the hitter we got for Rowand, which leaves us still better off than we were had we not traded Rowand (if the hitter is a better hitter than Rowand, which I owuld hope he would be).

I guess that would depend on whether the sox re-sign Konerko. My overall point was I'd rather re-sign PK over value and keep Rowand than let PK go and trade Rowand for Thome as a replacement. I'd rather have Rowand in CF and make Anderson or any of the other OF prospects fight for playing time than just hand Anderson the job, I don't think he's proved he can hit ML pitching, and I don't think any one of us would be too happy if we were stuck with Anderson struggling to hit .200 - and it would be a tough position to upgrade during the season.

I don't see the sox finding a better value at CF than Rowand through an additional trade, either. If the sox re-sign Konerko and trade for Thome, it might be worth the risk, otherwise it seems like you'd be giving up relatively equal value in letting PK go and acquiring Thome - but then losing Rowand in addition.

If the sox are unable to re-sign PK, then the Sox would be better off giving up a SP to acquire hitting and moving Cotts into the rotation. We know Cotts is a quality major league pitcher and would have Hernandez as insurance.

I disagree with the idea the sox should move OFers because it is an area of strength due to all the OF prospects. I don't feel that's the case - none of these prospects can be considered part of the strength of the major league team at this point and can't be counted on as starters. Sure, you can question whether Cotts and McCarthy can hold their weight at the back end of the rotation but they have shown much much more at the major league level than any of the OF prospects.

I also have the feeling the sox would regret losing Rowand in the future. I know there are certain posters on this board who are anti-Rowand, including one who stated Rowand is only considered above average because most other outfielders are below average, but let's face it, Rowand wouldn't be that easy to replace - at a critical position. We would be lucky if Anderson reaches Rowand's level - and yes, I'll acknowledge Anderson probably, and with-out-a-doubt Young, may have a higher ceiling than Rowand - but that doesn't mean they'll reach it.

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 05:50 PM
The White Sox believe Chris Young is their CF of the future, and it could be as early as mid-season or September.

Anderson has always been ticketed for LF or RF.

They also have Owens and Pods that could play CF. The White Sox are fine.

How many major league ABs do Young Anderson and Owens have again? If you're talking about rebuilding fine - I'd go with all 3 of them over the next year or so - but I thought the Sox were looking to go for it again next year.

And Podsednik would be a huge downgrade in CF and as far as I've heard, if Rowand were traded, Anderson would play center this year. No way will KW count on Young or Owen as a regular at any point this year if he's looking to contend.

Young. Owens. Anderson. Rowand. Only one those names do we know can bat his weight at the major league level.

MadetoOrta
11-18-2005, 06:05 PM
I assume you don't think there's much chance of Anderson being a bust? He hasn't done anything to move beyond prospect status as far as I'm concerned, and there's been plenty of more highly touted prospects than Anderson who have busted. Rowand, meanwhile, is an established major leaguer; Anderson, and any other sox OF prospect, has a long ways to go before he can make that claim. I don't get your 'confusion'? You surely can't be that confident that Anderson has already established himself as a bona fide major league starter, can you?

Brian Anderson was a stud outfielder at one of the premier Division 1 programs in the country, was a 1st round pick of the White Sox and has excelled at all levels of baseball. What in hell makes you think he'll be a bust? I'll consider it a disappointment if in 3 years, Anderson is putting up the average/good numbers Rowand put up last year. He's a supremely confident kid who gave us a huge lift [in case you forgot] when he took Felix Rodriguez deep twice in Seattle in the midst of a pennant race. I'll take Anderson thank you.

Flight #24
11-18-2005, 06:07 PM
I guess that would depend on whether the sox re-sign Konerko. My overall point was I'd rather re-sign PK over value and keep Rowand than let PK go and trade Rowand for Thome as a replacement.
You won't find many who disagree withyou on that, including probably Randar. The point he an many are making is that a lineup including Konerko, Thome, & Anderson is far superior to Konerko, Rowand, and ????(Everett?).
How many major league ABs do Young Anderson and Owens have again? If you're talking about rebuilding fine - I'd go with all 3 of them over the next year or so - but I thought the Sox were looking to go for it again next year.
...
Young. Owens. Anderson. Rowand. Only one those names do we know can bat his weight at the major league level.
Again, the point being that adding a Thome-type hitter (something not available via FA except possibly in Giles) is a far bigger impact in repeating than keeping Rowand and adding say Everett/Gload.

Plus, unless you're the Yankees, you need to plug in talented prospects at times. The issue really only comes in if you're trying to add a lot of them at once. With a mostly veteran club, it shouldn't be an issue to sprinkle in some highly talented guys, especialyl ones who you know will perform on D and who are replacing guys that weren't much more than average hitters in '05.

MadetoOrta
11-18-2005, 06:11 PM
How many major league ABs do Young Anderson and Owens have again? If you're talking about rebuilding fine - I'd go with all 3 of them over the next year or so - but I thought the Sox were looking to go for it again next year.

And Podsednik would be a huge downgrade in CF and as far as I've heard, if Rowand were traded, Anderson would play center this year. No way will KW count on Young or Owen as a regular at any point this year if he's looking to contend.

Young. Owens. Anderson. Rowand. Only one those names do we know can bat his weight at the major league level.

So, according to your reasoning, in 1989, because Frank Thomas couldn't hit his weight at the major league level yet we shouldn't have brought him up in 1990? I love the "if he's looking to contend" this year garbage. Sounds like "we can't contend if Uribe's our shortstop" or "we can't contend with Dye batting 3d" or maybe the "we can't contend with Crede playing 3d" matra heard throughout 2005. 2005? That's the year WE WON THE %$# WORLD SERIES. Don't start telling KW about "if we want to contend." :rolleyes:

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 06:31 PM
What in hell makes you think he'll be a bust?

I'm not saying I think he will be a bust, I'm saying there is a good chance of it, just like there is a good chance of any prospect that hasn't done jack in MLB to be a bust, unless you're the level of prospect on the lines of Pujols Rodriguez or Thomas, which he obviously is not. Take a look at any year list of 1st round picks and most of them are busts.

To me, Anderson as a prospect is about equal to what Rowand, who was also a 1st round pick, was 5 or 6 years ago - the difference being that Rowand has actually established he can play at this level, which took him a few years- while Anderson hasn't done anything to show he can be a successful major leaguer at this point.

I'm not saying Anderson shouldn't get a chance - I'm just saying the sox shouldn't hand him the job if they expect to compete this year.

TomBradley72
11-18-2005, 06:44 PM
What in hell makes you think he'll be a bust? I'll consider it a disappointment if in 3 years, Anderson is putting up the average/good numbers Rowand put up last year. He's a supremely confident kid who gave us a huge lift [in case you forgot] when he took Felix Rodriguez deep twice in Seattle in the midst of a pennant race. I'll take Anderson thank you.

The list of "top prospects" who never panned out is a long one. Jeremy Reed is supposed to be the 2nd coming...but he only hit .254 in a full season with the M's. BA will likely be a solid major leaguer....but I wouldn't want to count on him being at that level in 2006 when we're gunning for a World Series.

He batted .176 in 13 games with 12 SO's in 34 AB's (a pace of 176 over 500 AB's) with zero BB's....hard to believe he's ready to be a starting OF on a championship team.

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 06:47 PM
So, according to your reasoning, in 1989, because Frank Thomas couldn't hit his weight at the major league level yet we shouldn't have brought him up in 1990? I love the "if he's looking to contend" this year garbage. Sounds like "we can't contend if Uribe's our shortstop" or "we can't contend with Dye batting 3d" or maybe the "we can't contend with Crede playing 3d" matra heard throughout 2005. 2005? That's the year WE WON THE %$# WORLD SERIES. Don't start telling KW about "if we want to contend." :rolleyes:

1. Thomas wasn't called up until late 1990. They gave him a starting job the next year after he showed he could hit ML pitching.
2. The sox weren't counting on Thomas to contend - they barely expected to contend in 1990 if they did at all. When they did call him up it was already obvious he was a better hitter than anyone they had on the team.
3. Anderson is nowhere near the prospect that Thomas was. There was quite a bit of questioning as to why Thomas didn't start the year with the team at the beginning of 1990 when the '89 sox team was absolutely horrid and their 1st base options included the wretched Carlos Martinez and Dan Pasqua. So you're comparing the best sox prospect ever, at a position the sox were terribly weak, on one of the worst sox teams of the last 50 years to a good sox prospect on one of sox best teams of all time.
4. Your comparisons don't match up - Uribe, Dye and Crede are all established major league players.
5. I'm not saying Young shouldn't be called up at any point in '06, or that Anderson shouldn't make the team as the 4th OF, if the sox want to contend. I'm saying if the Sox are counting on Young coming on this year, and Anderson as the starting CFer, they are putting themselves in a bad spot.
6. I wasn't addressing KW, like most sox fans I am crazy, but I'm not that crazy- I was anticipating or conjecturing what KW might have up his sleeve, and assumed it was a given he plans on contending.

maurice
11-18-2005, 07:11 PM
There is very little chance that Anderson is a bust defensively; and defense is really where Rowand's value lies. Now we aren't giving Rowand away - presumably we are trading him for a quality hitter.

Correct. Plus, in the unlikely event that Anderson never produces a .700 OPS at the MLB level, you still have Young sitting at AAA. Young also is a very good defensive CF. That's not "counting on Young" in 2006. It's counting on Young or Anderson (2 top prospects who hit well in the high minors) to produce a .700+ OPS. That's a pretty safe bet.

BTW, to clarify the record, Thomas played 60 games in 1990 and batted .330. He never backed up anybody, and they should have brought him up sooner.

maurice
11-18-2005, 07:22 PM
The list of "top prospects" who never panned out is a long one. Jeremy Reed is supposed to be the 2nd coming.

KW obviously did not think that Reed was "the 2nd coming." He traded him because he thought he would be a worse major leaguer than the other guys in the system, particularly Anderson.

[Anderson] batted .176 in 13 games with 12 SO's in 34 AB's (a pace of 176 over 500 AB's) with zero BB's....hard to believe he's ready to be a starting OF on a championship team.

It's "hard to believe" based on your review of 34 sporadic ABs? That's ****ing ridiculous. He'll probably strike out a lot, but if you really think that he'll have zero BB given 500 MLB ABs in 2006, you've lost your mind.

Frater Perdurabo
11-18-2005, 07:36 PM
KW obviously did not think that Reed was "the 2nd coming." He traded him because he thought he would be a worse major leaguer than the other guys in the system, particularly Anderson.

It's "hard to believe" based on your review of 34 sporadic ABs? That's ****ing ridiculous. He'll probably strike out a lot, but if you really think that he'll have zero BB given 500 MLB ABs in 2006, you've lost your mind.

Agreed. And as long as some want to focus the debate on Rowand v. Anderson in CF, Rowand doesn't take many walks himself, either (32 BBs and 116 Ks in 2005). He also had 17 GIDPs, dethroning Konerko as the Sox GIDP king. Further, as Randar has pointed out, because Rowand isn't exactly the greatest at taking good routes and getting great jumps, he has a tendency to turn what should be routine catches into high-light reel catches because he has to hustle to get to balls that CFs with better instincts would catch without incident.

Not to bag on Rowand, but some of his biggest supporters need to lay off the "Krash Kool Aid."
:rolleyes:

DaveIsHere
11-18-2005, 07:51 PM
Further, as Randar has pointed out, because Rowand isn't exactly the greatest at taking good routes and getting great jumps, he has a tendency to turn what should be routine catches into high-light reel catches because he has to hustle to get to balls that CFs with better instincts would catch without incident.

Not to bag on Rowand, but some of his biggest supporters need to lay off the "Krash Kool Aid."
:rolleyes:


Uh Oh the whole "Bad Route" arguement again. Who cares how he gets there as long as he catches the ball, and Aaron is very good at getting to the ball regardless of his "Bad Routes"

BTW- I love the Crash Kool-Aid:D:

TomBradley72
11-18-2005, 07:54 PM
KW obviously did not think that Reed was "the 2nd coming." He traded him because he thought he would be a worse major leaguer than the other guys in the system, particularly Anderson.



It's "hard to believe" based on your review of 34 sporadic ABs? That's ****ing ridiculous. He'll probably strike out a lot, but if you really think that he'll have zero BB given 500 MLB ABs in 2006, you've lost your mind.

My point was his performance in his call up doesn't indicate he's ready to be a starting OF on a World Series contender. 34 AB's is a small sample but no more irrelevent than highlighting one good game he had against Seattle. 115 SO's in 118 games at the AAA level also indicates he needs some more time before he's ready. Reed wasn't traded because he was a lesser prospect....he was traded because that what Seattle required in exchange for Garcia.

I like Anderson as a prospect...just not as a starter in 2006.

maurice
11-18-2005, 07:57 PM
Not to bag on Rowand, but some of his biggest supporters need to lay off the "Krash Kool Aid."
:rolleyes:

LOL! Anybody who's familiar with my history at WSI would think that I'm Rowand's biggest supporter. He's probably my favorite player and a heck of a nice guy. OTOH, I recognize that Anderson is at least as good as Rowand defensively and likely to replicate Rowand's mediocre offense from this season for less money. Plus, there's an excellent chance that Young will be a better player than either of them. KW's not likely to hold either of them back. IMO, somebody's getting traded in the next 9 months, and it's probably going to be Rowand.

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 08:07 PM
34 AB's is a small sample but no more irrelevent than highlighting one good game he had against Seattle. 115 SO's in 118 games at the AAA level also indicates he needs some more time before he's ready.

But you said he'd have zero walks in 500 ABs!

maurice
11-18-2005, 08:12 PM
34 AB's is a small sample but no more irrelevent than highlighting one good game he had against Seattle.

Right, they're both completely irrelevant. That's why I didn't highlight the game against Seattle.

115 SO's in 118 games at the AAA level also indicates he needs some more time before he's ready.

What about the .295 AVE, .360 OBP, .469 SLG, 44 BB, and outstanding defense? He also led the team in runs scored and triples, and was second in doubles and RBI, playing almost exclusively with and against older players . . . many with extensive MLB experience.

Like I said, Anderson is going to strike out a lot his first year. (So does Rowand.) Other than that, he'll probably be fine. Besides, it doesn't really matter what you or I think. It matters what KW and Ozzie think. They both clearly like Anderson a lot, and I doubt that they'll hold him back for long. They moved him through the system very quickly and aren't likely to stop now.

Reed wasn't traded because he was a lesser prospect....he was traded because that what Seattle required in exchange for Garcia.

KW said otherwise, and I believe him. KW said that he had no problem trading Reed, because he liked Anderson, Sweeney, etc. better. The Reed hype was mostly a product of the BP camp (since Reed was a very high OBP guy in the minors). Actually, Olivo was the sticking point. KW eventually agreed to let him go, because the coaches didn't like the way Olivo handled pitchers.

Tragg
11-18-2005, 08:27 PM
KW has been pretty darn good at determining which prospects with gaudy stats are counterfeit and then foisting those prospects on other teams.
I don't know if he considered Reed counterfeit, but he clearly was not OUR top outfield prospect; and I think we knew the infielder was bogus.

Flight #24
11-18-2005, 11:00 PM
I'm not saying Anderson shouldn't get a chance - I'm just saying the sox shouldn't hand him the job if they expect to compete this year.

(Again), the question is - is the team more likely to compete with Anderson & Thome/Delgado or Rowand & Everett/Gload?

Answer's obvious to me because the one thing that you can say from watching Anderson is that he's a very good defensive OF (like Rowand, some would say better than Rowand). So the question is if he can hit like Rowand.

Gaining Thome and losing a .285 / 20HRguy / 20SB is not even close in terms of a tradeoff. And that's coming from a Rowand fan.

Professor
11-20-2005, 09:02 AM
The latest news on this rumor is Thome's willingness to come to the Sox via rotoworld.com:


Jim Thome indicated in an interview with the Philadelphia Inquirer that he would be willing to accept a trade to the Indians and probably the White Sox.
While there might be some other American League teams he'd also be willing to join, he'd prefer to stay in the Midwest. Thome is supposed to be in great shape as he recovers from elbow surgery, but it's still possible that he won't be dealt until spring training. Nov. 20 - 3:44 am et
Source: Philadelphia Inquirer (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/13211982.htm)