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View Full Version : Albert Pujols wins NL MVP


Stroker Ace
11-15-2005, 02:48 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AjP2j_5bcqnXsFFUHqyURjsRvLYF?slug=ap-nlmvp&prov=ap&type=lgns

Great to hear he finally won it. Pujols is a great player on and off the field.

Chisox003
11-15-2005, 02:50 PM
'Bout time.

:gulp:

Tekijawa
11-15-2005, 02:52 PM
Anyone else get the feeling that this won't be his last one?

NonetheLoaiza
11-15-2005, 03:10 PM
Anyone else get the feeling that this won't be his last one?

Definitely not. He should actually probably have closer to 3 now, but that guy over in San Fran denied him.

Congrats Albert.

jackbrohamer
11-15-2005, 03:15 PM
Very close vote, as it should have been, both Pujols and Jones had great years.

downstairs
11-15-2005, 03:34 PM
Definitely not. He should actually probably have closer to 3 now, but that guy over in San Fran denied him.

Congrats Albert.

He was #2 the last 4 years, each year losing to Bonds.

They ought to present him with his 04, 03, 02 and 01 awards this afternoon as well.

Jjav829
11-15-2005, 03:37 PM
Anyone else get the feeling that this won't be his last one?

There are few things in baseball that are more of a guarantee at this point than Albert Pujols winning a few more MVPs.

Congrats to Albert. He certainly deserves it after watching that cheating SOB take his award the past few years.

:gulp:

Flight #24
11-15-2005, 03:44 PM
Definitely not. He should actually probably have closer to 3 now, but that guy over in San Fran denied him.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/2020/abc_2020_Conte_041202_t.jpg

D. TODD
11-15-2005, 03:44 PM
Wow, I thought Jones may get it. I clearly thought A-Rod & Puljols should have won, and for once they got it right in both leagues in my opinion.

Baby Fisk
11-15-2005, 04:09 PM
Bravo Pujols. A very well deserved award for a class act (for a change!).

LuvSox
11-15-2005, 04:32 PM
What about Derek Lee? Doesn't the whole world love the Cubbies anymore? :whiner:

MrX
11-15-2005, 04:58 PM
What about Derek Lee? Doesn't the whole world love the Cubbies anymore? :whiner:
Murph was :whiner: during his show today about how it should have been Lee

ChiSoxRowand
11-15-2005, 05:36 PM
I actually thought Jones should have won it. The guy absolutely carried the Braves this year. Not to mention he is maybe the best defensive outfielder in baseball.

Paulwny
11-15-2005, 07:47 PM
I actually thought Jones should have won it. The guy absolutely carried the Braves this year. Not to mention he is maybe the best defensive outfielder in baseball.

Agree, MVP-value to his team, not only his stats
Atlanta is an also ran team without Jones.

OEO Magglio
11-15-2005, 07:57 PM
Agree, MVP-value to his team, not only his stats
Atlanta is an also ran team without Jones.
I don't think Andruw was even the most valuable player on his own team. Pujols deserved this imo. Congrats Albert.

soxfanreggie
11-16-2005, 04:22 AM
Pujols, HOFer for sure. This man could have 5 MVP awards if not for Barry and his cream...A-Rod who many consider to be the best to play the game only has 2.

Pujols 1 MVP, 4 runner ups
A-Rod...2 MVP's, 2 runner ups.

I have a feeling we could see Pujols having 10+ top 5 MVP finishes, 2 more MVPS, and a few more runner ups.

fquaye149
11-16-2005, 08:09 AM
I don't think Andruw was even the most valuable player on his own team. Pujols deserved this imo. Congrats Albert.

HA! You're telling jokes. Tell the one about the 12 inch piano next. Jones hit 51 home runs this year with 128 RBI. THAT IS 30 MORE HR AND 50 MORE RBI THAN THE NEXT CLOSEST BRAVE. Yup, Francouer had a good year for a rookie but for you to say a guy who hit 51 HR and had 128 RBI with a 900+ OPS wasn't the most valuable player on his own team? HA HA HA. Who was better? Francoeur? Chipper Jones? Furcal? Keep dreaming.

Having said that, I think Pujols was just as valuable to the Cards if not more so. Honestly, their pitching was so lackluster, w/o Pujols, they don't make it to the NLCS, imo.

OEO Magglio
11-16-2005, 08:24 AM
HA! You're telling jokes. Tell the one about the 12 inch piano next. Jones hit 51 home runs this year with 128 RBI. THAT IS 30 MORE HR AND 50 MORE RBI THAN THE NEXT CLOSEST BRAVE. Yup, Francouer had a good year for a rookie but for you to say a guy who hit 51 HR and had 128 RBI with a 900+ OPS wasn't the most valuable player on his own team? HA HA HA. Who was better? Francoeur? Chipper Jones? Furcal? Keep dreaming.

Having said that, I think Pujols was just as valuable to the Cards if not more so. Honestly, their pitching was so lackluster, w/o Pujols, they don't make it to the NLCS, imo.
Furcal and Giles were much more valuable to the Braves imo then Andruw is.

fquaye149
11-16-2005, 09:31 AM
Furcal and Giles were much more valuable to the Braves imo then Andruw is.

In the immortal words of John Turturro : "That's laughable man!"

Hey look: I'm making completely indefensible statements that don't hold up to any sort of scrutiny!

"Eckstein was more valuable to the Cardinals than Pujols"

"Iguchi was more valuable to the White Sox than Paulie"

"Biggio was more valuable to the Astros than Berkman"

"Damon was more valuable to the Red Sox than Ortiz"

hey ! this is kind of fun! Now boring, stinky, reality:

OPS/HR/RBI/R/SB/

Jones: 922/51/128/95/5/

Furcal: 777/12/58/100/46

Giles: 826/15/63/104/16

So hm... does furcal's 41 more stolen bases make up for the 65 more runs Jones produced, including the 70 more runs he batted in? Or does Giles' 11 more stolen bases make up for the 65 more runs Jones batted in?

What other statistic category do they surpass Jones significantly in?

OBP:
Jones=347 Furcal=348 Giles=365

Giles 18 points and Furcal's ONE point hardly make up for the run productions


Oh but wait...their defense is so much better than Jones'...that's the intangible factor!!!....oops, Jones plays GG caliber CENTERFIELD whereas Giles plays second base...


Sorry, whatever you're selling, I'm not buying and I don't know who in their right mind would.

mccoydp
11-16-2005, 10:19 AM
Congrats to Pujols...I wanted him to win it. The guy's a monster at the plate...just awesome.
Hopefully this won't be the last!

PatK
11-16-2005, 11:05 AM
Funny, I don't see if appearing on the home page of the Tribune's website.

tstrike2000
11-16-2005, 11:29 AM
Definitely not. He should actually probably have closer to 3 now, but that guy over in San Fran denied him.

Yeah, he probably should've won it at least last year as well. It's amazing what flaxseed oil does for some other guys.

Chips
11-16-2005, 02:24 PM
In the immortal words of John Turturro : "That's laughable man!"

Hey look: I'm making completely indefensible statements that don't hold up to any sort of scrutiny!

"Eckstein was more valuable to the Cardinals than Pujols"

"Iguchi was more valuable to the White Sox than Paulie"

"Biggio was more valuable to the Astros than Berkman"

"Damon was more valuable to the Red Sox than Ortiz"

hey ! this is kind of fun! Now boring, stinky, reality:

OPS/HR/RBI/R/SB/

Jones: 922/51/128/95/5/

Furcal: 777/12/58/100/46

Giles: 826/15/63/104/16

So hm... does furcal's 41 more stolen bases make up for the 65 more runs Jones produced, including the 70 more runs he batted in? Or does Giles' 11 more stolen bases make up for the 65 more runs Jones batted in?

What other statistic category do they surpass Jones significantly in?

OBP:
Jones=347 Furcal=348 Giles=365

Giles 18 points and Furcal's ONE point hardly make up for the run productions


Oh but wait...their defense is so much better than Jones'...that's the intangible factor!!!....oops, Jones plays GG caliber CENTERFIELD whereas Giles plays second base...


Sorry, whatever you're selling, I'm not buying and I don't know who in their right mind would.

I'm not buying it either. Without Jones the Braves probably don't win their division again.

Pujols and Jones both played good enough to win the award. It's good to see Albert win one.

OEO Magglio
11-16-2005, 05:30 PM
In the immortal words of John Turturro : "That's laughable man!"

Hey look: I'm making completely indefensible statements that don't hold up to any sort of scrutiny!

"Eckstein was more valuable to the Cardinals than Pujols"

"Iguchi was more valuable to the White Sox than Paulie"

"Biggio was more valuable to the Astros than Berkman"

"Damon was more valuable to the Red Sox than Ortiz"

hey ! this is kind of fun! Now boring, stinky, reality:

OPS/HR/RBI/R/SB/

Jones: 922/51/128/95/5/

Furcal: 777/12/58/100/46

Giles: 826/15/63/104/16

So hm... does furcal's 41 more stolen bases make up for the 65 more runs Jones produced, including the 70 more runs he batted in? Or does Giles' 11 more stolen bases make up for the 65 more runs Jones batted in?

What other statistic category do they surpass Jones significantly in?

OBP:
Jones=347 Furcal=348 Giles=365

Giles 18 points and Furcal's ONE point hardly make up for the run productions


Oh but wait...their defense is so much better than Jones'...that's the intangible factor!!!....oops, Jones plays GG caliber CENTERFIELD whereas Giles plays second base...


Sorry, whatever you're selling, I'm not buying and I don't know who in their right mind would.
Ah yes...cause stats always tell the whole story. Lets see, every leadoff man the Cards have ever inserted in front of Pujols has had a great season so no Eck isnt close to being more valuable then Pujols. You CAN make the argument that Damon is just as valuable to the Bosox as Ortiz was and Biggio just wasn't very good. IMO, a good leadoff hitter can and is more valuable to a big bat in the middle of the order, that's why unless you have a good leadoff hitter chances are you aren't going very far in the playoffs. I don't care what you or anyone else believes, imo Giles and Furcal were more valuable to the Braves then Andruw was.

fquaye149
11-16-2005, 07:49 PM
Ah yes...cause stats always tell the whole story. Lets see, every leadoff man the Cards have ever inserted in front of Pujols has had a great season so no Eck isnt close to being more valuable then Pujols. You CAN make the argument that Damon is just as valuable to the Bosox as Ortiz was and Biggio just wasn't very good. IMO, a good leadoff hitter can and is more valuable to a big bat in the middle of the order, that's why unless you have a good leadoff hitter chances are you aren't going very far in the playoffs. I don't care what you or anyone else believes, imo Giles and Furcal were more valuable to the Braves then Andruw was.

I guess this just goes to show opinions can be wrong.

Sorry - I don't live and die by the stats, but the fact is Jones carried that team on his bat.

But any time you see someone in a thread claim Damon has a value anywhere near Ortiz's you know what that opinion is worth.


Leadoff hitters are all well and good, but Furcal scored only five more runs than Jones.

I really don't get what you're trying to prove, but keep going. You're amusing me.

OEO Magglio
11-16-2005, 08:57 PM
I guess this just goes to show opinions can be wrong.

Sorry - I don't live and die by the stats, but the fact is Jones carried that team on his bat.

But any time you see someone in a thread claim Damon has a value anywhere near Ortiz's you know what that opinion is worth.


Leadoff hitters are all well and good, but Furcal scored only five more runs than Jones.

I really don't get what you're trying to prove, but keep going. You're amusing me.
Well it's good to know that you know everything. Looks like your the god of all things baseball. Ask Red Sox fans, they'll tell you how valuable Damon really was. You underestimate the value of a leadoff hitter obviously. I guess your in the camp that Pods is overrated cause he doesn't hit homers. Anyways, you made the Iguchi/Pauly statement, well I'll say I can easily make the argument that Scott was more valuable then Pauly was to this team. Hell, Paul was non existant for the first two months of the season and we were still winning cause of Scott and Tad at the top of the order along with the great pitching staff. Scott gets injured and goes out in August and this team just goes down the tubes even with the great pitching. Sorry buddy, but I don't think your opinion is worth much anymore either after attacking me because you dont realize the worth of a good leadoff hitter.

fquaye149
11-16-2005, 11:38 PM
Well it's good to know that you know everything. Looks like your the god of all things baseball. Ask Red Sox fans, they'll tell you how valuable Damon really was. You underestimate the value of a leadoff hitter obviously. I guess your in the camp that Pods is overrated cause he doesn't hit homers. Anyways, you made the Iguchi/Pauly statement, well I'll say I can easily make the argument that Scott was more valuable then Pauly was to this team. Hell, Paul was non existant for the first two months of the season and we were still winning cause of Scott and Tad at the top of the order along with the great pitching staff. Scott gets injured and goes out in August and this team just goes down the tubes even with the great pitching. Sorry buddy, but I don't think your opinion is worth much anymore either after attacking me because you dont realize the worth of a good leadoff hitter.

I don't know everything. I don't claim to. but I've watched baseball and I have plenty of evidence and common sense to support my claim.

Even someone who isn't the God of all things baseball can tell you that an average leadoff hitter (Furcal) is not more valuable to his team than a man with a 977 OPS and 50+ home runs.

You can make the argument that Scott was more valuable to this team than Paul, but you'll find few supporters.

Likewise with Damon's overrated self.

I know exactly the value of a leadoff hitter. I like Scott, I like Furcal. I like Damon for his hitting (not his baserunning). However, a man who can put up a 977 ops and 50 homeruns like Jones or a 900 OPS and 40 home runs like Paulie is worth more than a leadoff hitter who gets on base at a comparable rate.

Sorry. That's the case. The Braves go a lot further with Jones and without Furcal than without Jones with Furcal.

I would wager most peopl on this board would agree with that, no matter how much the Tribune tried to tell you we won the world series by "small ball"

OEO Magglio
11-16-2005, 11:49 PM
However, a man who can put up a 977 ops and 50 homeruns like Jones or a 900 OPS and 40 home runs like Paulie is worth more than a leadoff hitter who gets on base at a comparable rate.


Tell that to the Cubs.

fquaye149
11-17-2005, 12:07 AM
Tell that to the Cubs.

Wow. Oh my ****ing God wow. You're saying the Cubs would have been better off with, say Podsednik, than Derrek Lee.

Let me make sure. That's honestly what you're saying?

OEO Magglio
11-17-2005, 12:11 AM
Wow. Oh my ****ing God wow. You're saying the Cubs would have been better off with, say Podsednik, than Derrek Lee.

Let me make sure. That's honestly what you're saying?
The cubs would have sucked either way..there something we can agree on.:D: My point is, the Braves and Cubs were pretty darn similar teams this year in terms of pitching and similar lineups outside of their leadoff hitter. The Braves had a good one and the Cubs..Corey Patterson. The Braves make the playoffs and the Cubs finish in 4th place

fquaye149
11-17-2005, 02:14 AM
The cubs would have sucked either way..there something we can agree on.:D: My point is, the Braves and Cubs were pretty darn similar teams this year in terms of pitching and similar lineups outside of their leadoff hitter. The Braves had a good one and the Cubs..Corey Patterson. The Braves make the playoffs and the Cubs finish in 4th place

This is absurd. Look - the Braves had a well-rounded team in all aspects - pitching, relief pitching, fielding, and hitting. The Cubs had nothing but Derrek Lee (and Aramis Ramirez).

Rafael Furcal was not the difference.

OEO Magglio
11-17-2005, 03:54 AM
This is absurd. Look - the Braves had a well-rounded team in all aspects - pitching, relief pitching, fielding, and hitting. The Cubs had nothing but Derrek Lee (and Aramis Ramirez).

Rafael Furcal was not the difference.
The Braves allowed about 30 runs less then the Cubs not that big of a difference. The Cubs also had a higher team batting average so I wouldn't say that they could completely out hit the Cubs. The cubs didnt have a leadoff hitter and was the major reason they struggled to score runs even though they were 8th in the majors in team batting average. The Braves had a better team obp but the cubs had a better slugging and trailed the braves by 4 points ops wise. As crazy as it sounds statistically the Braves and Cubs weren't that far off. The Cubs haven't had a real leadoff hitter since 2003 and havent been in the playoffs since then. In 03, the Cubs were 47 and 47 at the allstar break, they trade for Kenny Lofton and got 41 and 27 the rest of the year plus advancing on to the nlcs. A good leadoff hitter can make a team the complete difference in a team. I've said my piece and I've made my point..I'm done here, go on flaming if you wish.