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View Full Version : How will you feel if Frank does not sign?


It's Time
11-15-2005, 01:47 PM
I just can't see him wearing a Twins or Devil Rays uni:o: . It will be a sad way for Frank's career to end. JR needs to find a way to fit him in the budget and give Frank the respect he deserves.

IMO, Frank IS White Sox baseball and is the best player to ever wear a White Sox uni.

hawkjt
11-15-2005, 01:50 PM
I am with ya. Must sign frank.

SoxFan76
11-15-2005, 01:51 PM
He'll be back. He wants to come back and Reinsdorf is his biggest fan.

itsnotrequired
11-15-2005, 01:53 PM
If Frank is injured and doesn't want to accept an incentive-loaded contract, you can't fault Kenny for not wanting to sign him. I'd love to see Frank back next year but not at the expense of the team.

Chicken Dinner
11-15-2005, 01:53 PM
If Frank can play, I would guess that he will be in a White Sox uni. The question that no one can answer, is can he? You can say all you want about respecting the man, but if he can't be productive, he can't have a roster spot.

It's Time
11-15-2005, 01:56 PM
He is the most under appreciated athlete to ever play in Chicago. Frank deserves to be at home for his last at bat, while he gets a 3 minute standing ovation. He's earned it and deserves it.

He never cheated and in all honesty, was a bargain for the numbers he put up year after year.

Flight #24
11-15-2005, 01:57 PM
I'll be incredibly disappointed if Frank doesn't sign. However, if it's partially or completely because the Sox made a move for a Thome/Delgado/Helton (and resigned Konerko), or because he wasn't healed enough by 12/7 arb deadline for them to make him an offer, I'll understand. It'll suck and I'll be bemoaning the Sox luck in this, but I'd understand.


And I'll root like hell for him to do well wherever he is, probably een when he's playing the Sox, as long as he doesn't beat us!

It's Time
11-15-2005, 01:58 PM
If Frank can play, I would guess that he will be in a White Sox uni. The question that no one can answer, is can he? You can say all you want about respecting the man, but if he can't be productive, he can't have a roster spot.

He WAS productive when he was on the field. He actually carried the team for a few weeks with some clutch homers. I fully expect him to be healthy and if he is, bet on the usual production.

duke of dorwood
11-15-2005, 01:59 PM
I am confident he will sign, I want every game he plays in our uniform.

Palehose13
11-15-2005, 02:05 PM
At this point, I would imagine that Frank and KW/Ozzie are all concerned about Frank's health. I haven't heard much positive news about Franks rehab, but on the flip side, I haven't heard anything negative. I think if Frank is healthy and can contribute, the Sox will sign him. If he isn't, I would imagine that Frank would consider retirement instead of having his last few pro years be not very productive and with numerous teams.

antitwins13
11-15-2005, 02:05 PM
I'll cry. :whiner:

Chicken Dinner
11-15-2005, 02:10 PM
He WAS productive when he was on the field. He actually carried the team for a few weeks with some clutch homers. I fully expect him to be healthy and if he is, bet on the usual production.

Was and is are 2 different words. "Was" is past tense. "Is" is present. Show me a healthy Frank and I would be the first to sign him. He's already going to get 4 million from the buy-out but taking away more dollars from the 2006 club on a chance that he might heal this year, which he couldn't last year, is too riskey.

It's Time
11-15-2005, 02:13 PM
:tealpolice

Step away from the keyboard, sir.

$235,294 per game? $66,115 per plate appearance?
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/8126

Look, I love the big guy as much as anybody, and I think he should end his career in a Sox uniform. But tying up that much money on a guy with questionable health is spending poorly. There are other team needs that must be addressed.

Frank has been well-compensated over the course of his career. If he accepts an incentive contract based on games or plate appearances, at least the team is protected if his foot bones just don't hold up.

You obviously did not understand what I was saying. When Frank was in his prime, he was a bargain. While certain cheaters in town were getting paid more and getting more commercial opps, Frank was just tearing up the league.

I didn't say pay him 10 million now, I said I think JR needs to find room for him.

WestSox
11-15-2005, 02:19 PM
He is the most under appreciated athlete to ever play in Chicago. Frank deserves to be at home for his last at bat, while he gets a 3 minute standing ovation. He's earned it and deserves it.

He never cheated and in all honesty, was a bargain for the numbers he put up year after year.

Well said.

I'd be very disappointed if he went somewhere else next year. That said, I wouldn't hold it against him. He's earned the right to go wherever he wants. We all know which cap he'll be wearing when he gives his speech in Cooperstown.

I see him in a Sox uni for at least one more year. Even if KW doesn't want him around, JR has always been a huge Frank supporter. They'll find a way to get it done.

bobowhite
11-15-2005, 02:30 PM
As for Frank, I think he is totally aware that he can't expect a huge contract. Like every baseball player I have ever met Frank wants to squeeze out one more year (or possibly two.) I, a .244 career minor league hitter (never above AA) would glady strap on the gear (catcher) and get out there for my old team. The fact that I'm in my forties, making more money in business than I ever dreamed of making playing baseball, and would have to have eye surgery before I could hit anything traveling faster than 55 mph had nothing to do with it. ((Note to self: if Shingo is still pitching maybe . . .)) The fact that I've been told my more than one orthopod that if I played anything more advanced than a father-son game my knees would blow out and I'd be in a wheelchair for life is a little more incentive. If Frank has a whisper of a chance, he'll be playing. He needs 48 HR for 500. Frank doesn't need the money.

It's Time
11-15-2005, 02:30 PM
Any injury debates about Thome have to be doubled or tripled with respect to Frank. Put it this way - if KW decides not to make a deal for a hitter like Helton/Thome because he's got Frank, that's ridiculously irresponsible. Frank cannot be counted on to get through a full season, assuming he's even ready to play by opening day in the first place (something that's not certain).

When healthy, I'd take Frank over just about any hitter in baseball, bar maybe 5. But he's not healthy, and no one knows if he ever will be truly healthy ever again, which is why we're having this discussion.

I have not heard anything about Frank's injury lately. What is going in with it and where is Beckett when you need him?:D:

MsSoxVixen22
11-15-2005, 02:35 PM
This is how I see it-if he's not healthy, it wouldn't really be worth it to sign him. I wanna see him play with this team as much as ne one. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he isn't healthy enough to play he retires in a Sox uni. Bottom line-let's hope Frank is doing all he can to be healthy for '06. (workout, etc.) Just my 2 cents

Sox35th
11-15-2005, 02:53 PM
The Big Hurt

448 HR.
1465 RBI's
.307 Avg
Two-Time MVP 1993-94
Batting champ 1997

All 16 of his career years with the ChiSox!! It should stay that way when hits his 500th. HR :wink:

If Frank gets healthy and stays healthy.....I think we'll see that Frank of old!! Look what he did when he came back for the short time this season. (12hrs.....26 rbis in 34 games) The old man still can get it done!!

He wants to come back......I think you can see the fire in his eyes

Madvora
11-15-2005, 03:00 PM
I really can't see it. I can't see him in another uniform. I truly believe that Paulie and Frank will be back in 2006 and we will see a season beyond belief.

MadetoOrta
11-15-2005, 03:23 PM
If some team is irresponsible enough to give Frank a big guaranteed contract, I wish the Big Hurt well. That's not JR's fault. Frank's coming back with an incentive laden contract. If he just can't do it anymore, I see him becoming team ambassador. As much as I respect Harold Baines, he doesn't cut it as a team ambassador.

Madvora
11-15-2005, 03:26 PM
If some team is irresponsible enough to give Frank a big guaranteed contract, I wish the Big Hurt well. That's not JR's fault. Frank's coming back with an incentive laden contract. If he just can't do it anymore, I see him becoming team ambassador. As much as I respect Harold Baines, he doesn't cut it as a team ambassador.
Oh God! Harold's last year here was embarrassing. I can't see that happening to Frank though. The way he came out last year changed my mind about what he still had in him.

Ol' No. 2
11-15-2005, 03:28 PM
There's no reason in the world for JR NOT to offer him an incentive contract with a low base ($2M or so). I doubt anyone else will make a better offer. They've got plenty of playoff revenues to pay for it, and if he can't play, that's not a lot of money to gamble on a guy with the upside of Frank Thomas. Hell, it's worth that much to avoid the PR hit if he goes elsewhere.

rbeze09
11-15-2005, 03:29 PM
Since Frank is my favorite White Sox of all time I will be incredibly disapointed if the Sox don't resign him. He has been the face of the franchise my entire life and he is a huge reason I am a SOx fan today. I would like enjoy nothing more than seeing the BIg Hurt launching HR #500 into the bleachers at the Cell with the Frank coming out of the 3rd base dugout 4 a curtain call b4 a selllout crowd on their feet....KW and Jerry if you're out there, PLEASE RESIGN BIG FRANK

Jjav829
11-15-2005, 03:35 PM
There's no reason in the world for JR NOT to offer him an incentive contract with a low base ($2M or so). I doubt anyone else will make a better offer. They've got plenty of playoff revenues to pay for it, and if he can't play, that's not a lot of money to gamble on a guy with the upside of Frank Thomas. Hell, it's worth that much to avoid the PR hit if he goes elsewhere.

There is a reason. He has a combined 345 at-bats over the past 2 years. If Frank isn't re-signed it won't be a money issue. It will be because the Sox feel they can't afford to count on Frank again. And I don't think there will be much of a PR hit. Let's face it, if there is ever a time that is perfect for the Sox to say goodbye to Frank it is this offseason. Kenny and JR just put together a World Series Champion. I don't think there will be a ton of complaining if they decide not to sign Frank and use that money to get someone like Delgado who is more reliable than Frank.

hose
11-15-2005, 04:55 PM
It all comes down to Frank's health and if his is ready to go in spring training.

I would love to see the Big Hurt finish his career w/ the Sox , but if it doesn't happen I can still give him a standing ovation at Cooperstown when he gets inducted to the HoF.

One thing I've decided is that in Kenny/Ozzie I trust.

Whatever they think is the best way to get another ring is what I'll support.

ilsox7
11-15-2005, 05:17 PM
There is a reason. He has a combined 345 at-bats over the past 2 years. If Frank isn't re-signed it won't be a money issue. It will be because the Sox feel they can't afford to count on Frank again. And I don't think there will be much of a PR hit. Let's face it, if there is ever a time that is perfect for the Sox to say goodbye to Frank it is this offseason. Kenny and JR just put together a World Series Champion. I don't think there will be a ton of complaining if they decide not to sign Frank and use that money to get someone like Delgado who is more reliable than Frank.

I totally agree. As much as it pains me to say, I'd rather see the Sox re-sign PK and trade for Delgado than re-sign PK and re-sign Frank.

Ol' No. 2
11-15-2005, 05:18 PM
There is a reason. He has a combined 345 at-bats over the past 2 years. If Frank isn't re-signed it won't be a money issue. It will be because the Sox feel they can't afford to count on Frank again. And I don't think there will be much of a PR hit. Let's face it, if there is ever a time that is perfect for the Sox to say goodbye to Frank it is this offseason. Kenny and JR just put together a World Series Champion. I don't think there will be a ton of complaining if they decide not to sign Frank and use that money to get someone like Delgado who is more reliable than Frank.You can't count on having Frank back in any case. They need to proceed assuming he won't be back. But in no way does that prevent them from signing him to an incentive contract. If he's able to play, great. If not, they're out a couple of million bucks. Considering the upside of having a healthy Frank Thomas, that's a pretty good gamble IMO.

I just don't see any downside to signing him to an incentive deal with a modest base.

lostletters
11-15-2005, 05:19 PM
I will be disappointed. But I will understand it as well. It is part of baseball business.

If anything, if Frank parts ways with the white sox he should get the same honor as Harold Baines. Getting his number retired the first day he is not a white sox player. He deserves it. He was a player of honor and dignity, in an era of steriod freaks.

kevin57
11-15-2005, 05:47 PM
I agree it would be surreal to see FT in any uniform but a WS one. I'm not nervous about it. I believe he will accept an incentive-laden contract. That would be good for both sides.

IF however, Frank gets and accepts some absurd offer from another team, I don't think it is in our interest to match whatever anyone else may be willing to spend.

I have the same philosophy regarding Konerko. Pay appreciatively and treat respectfully, but this ain't the Mega-Lotto.

riskier77
11-15-2005, 05:54 PM
I would be really sad and probably cry. Hopefully, an incentive filled contract will work out between him and Kenny.

I honestly believe, Frank will be the last White Sox player to start and end his career with this team. How awesome would it be to go to Cooperstown for his induction and keep hearing over and over how he spent his entire career in a Chicago White Sox uniform? I absolutely love him and will always remember what he did for this team. Those 7 years he had will probably never be duplicated by anyone in the game in our lifetime. I will always think of him fondly no matter what happens!

RKMeibalane
11-15-2005, 07:47 PM
There is a reason. He has a combined 345 at-bats over the past 2 years. If Frank isn't re-signed it won't be a money issue. It will be because the Sox feel they can't afford to count on Frank again. And I don't think there will be much of a PR hit. Let's face it, if there is ever a time that is perfect for the Sox to say goodbye to Frank it is this offseason. Kenny and JR just put together a World Series Champion. I don't think there will be a ton of complaining if they decide not to sign Frank and use that money to get someone like Delgado who is more reliable than Frank.

I completely agree. The Sox have proven that they don't need Frank anymore, and Frank himself has admitted as much ("I know this team has played well without me" -- said by Frank around Memorial Day). If the Sox do decide to cut ties with Thomas, now is the time. I think most people would be sad and dissapointed, but everyone would understand and agree with the move.

Frank has had an amazing career, and both Williams and Reinsdorf understand what he means to this team and city. However, it is worth reiterating that Williams' and Reinsdorf's first priority is to the Chicago White Sox, not to Frank Thomas. Frank is a HOF'er. Everybody knows that, and that fact won't change regardless of what happens this winter. However, what KW does with the Sox roster between now and April will have an effect on the 2006 season and beyond for the White Sox. It's important that everyone has their priorities in order.

soxfanatlanta
11-15-2005, 07:52 PM
Even if he never makes it back as a player, I'd love to see him stay with the organization. Imagine starting him teaching the minor-leaguers the science, and art of hitting. If Terry Pendalton can do it...

RKMeibalane
11-15-2005, 08:01 PM
Even if he never makes it back as a player, I'd love to see him stay with the organization. Imagine starting him teaching the minor-leaguers the science, and art of hitting. If Terry Pendalton can do it...

I really don't think that Frank would make a good hitting instructor. He uses the Walk Hriniak approach, which differs radically from anything any other player uses. Now that Robin Ventura has retired, I don't think there's another player besides Frank who hits off of his front foot in the Major Leagues.

Ventura Fan 23
11-15-2005, 08:37 PM
It'll be one of the worst days of my life if he signs with another team. I was thinking about it earlier today. He's one of the funnest players to watch, and if he's healthy, he'll be an offensive beast.

Lip Man 1
11-15-2005, 09:12 PM
As they said in The Godfather, it's 'nothing personal, just business.'

If the Sox had a Yankee type payroll they could certainly take the risk, but they don't. personally I think Frank returns with an incentive type deal.

Lip

getonbckthr
11-16-2005, 03:43 AM
In all honesty I love Frank Thomas as a ballplayer, however we just won a championship. We are at the top and the only way you stay at the top is replacing what is not needed. To carry Frank on the roster KW needs 100% proof that Frank will be ready to go come April 1st. If he is not then resigning him is a mistake and not only would KW be holding the franchise down, but Frank would as well. As productive as Everett was last year it was a wasted roster spot, but a spot we needed to waste because of the unknown we had with Frank. Personally if we could use the money from Frank and Carl's contract and acquire a Delgado to DH then, sorry Frank thanks for the memories, but its time to move on. Our concern needs to be with the 06 and beyond Chicago White Sox. Look at the Yankees and Bernie Williams, or the Mets and Mike Piazza. I understand there should be a sense of loyalty, but when it hurts the team either financially or physically (wasted roster spot) or both loyalty needs to be reconsidered.

soxfanreggie
11-16-2005, 04:31 AM
Looking at Frank's production in 2003 after being injured in '01 and having a decent '02...here's to hoping that he has a great '06 after injury ravaged '04 and '05 seasons!

I would seriously be very very sad if Frank wasn't in a Sox uniform. But I was a Sox fan before Big Frank, and that is where my loyalty lies. He is my all-time favorite player, and I would hope the Sox would re-sign him if he is healthy...but if he's not...it might not be worth the risk. However, I want him to always be a part of the organization, even if not as a player!

eastchicagosoxfan
11-16-2005, 06:03 AM
I want to see Frank return, but he has to be healthy. He's a huge bat when healthy, but he brings no speed, defense, or versatility to the team. The Sox have to be confident that he can play 130 games as a DH. My heart says yes, but my head says no.

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2005, 10:15 AM
I completely agree. The Sox have proven that they don't need Frank anymore, and Frank himself has admitted as much ("I know this team has played well without me" -- said by Frank around Memorial Day). If the Sox do decide to cut ties with Thomas, now is the time. I think most people would be sad and dissapointed, but everyone would understand and agree with the move.

Frank has had an amazing career, and both Williams and Reinsdorf understand what he means to this team and city. However, it is worth reiterating that Williams' and Reinsdorf's first priority is to the Chicago White Sox, not to Frank Thomas. Frank is a HOF'er. Everybody knows that, and that fact won't change regardless of what happens this winter. However, what KW does with the Sox roster between now and April will have an effect on the 2006 season and beyond for the White Sox. It's important that everyone has their priorities in order.What, exactly, do the Sox gain by NOT offering him an incentive contract with a modest base? I think it's a foregone conclusion that no other team is going to offer him a monster guaranteed contract, so I have no doubt he'd accept it. If he's healthy enough to play in 2006, great. If not, it's a pretty small price to pay considering the potential upside. You might want to wait right up until December 7 to get the maximum amount of information possible. But barring some very negative medical report, I just don't see any reason not to do it.

TomBradley72
11-16-2005, 10:22 AM
I'll feel bad...mostly for Frank. He really had his head up his ass there for a few years....he was the "big skirt" for a while there (wouldn't play the field, handing out doctors notes, etc.)...but he's seems to have finally matured and now "gets it"....but he's starting to fall apart physically. Would love to see him 100% for one full season...I think he would be incredible. But at his age, his weight, nearly two complete seasons of dealing with the same/similar injury....time might have passed him by.

Jjav829
11-16-2005, 12:25 PM
What, exactly, do the Sox gain by NOT offering him an incentive contract with a modest base? I think it's a foregone conclusion that no other team is going to offer him a monster guaranteed contract, so I have no doubt he'd accept it. If he's healthy enough to play in 2006, great. If not, it's a pretty small price to pay considering the potential upside. You might want to wait right up until December 7 to get the maximum amount of information possible. But barring some very negative medical report, I just don't see any reason not to do it.

The Sox gain a hitter they can actually rely on. That's what. If you offer Frank an incentive-laden contract for next year, and he can't make it through a full season yet again, then we're stuck in a situation where we have to make a trade. We won't have Everett as a fallback option again. What the Sox gain by not offering Frank an incentive-laden contract is the ability to pursue a better DH, someone like Delgado.

soxfanatlanta
11-16-2005, 12:47 PM
I really don't think that Frank would make a good hitting instructor. He uses the Walk Hriniak approach, which differs radically from anything any other player uses. Now that Robin Ventura has retired, I don't think there's another player besides Frank who hits off of his front foot in the Major Leagues.

Good ol' Walt. True, his hitting style is different from most others, but there are things that Frank could teach w/o messing with mechanics that are equally important. His knowledge of the strike zone, situational hitting, balance, etc. would be a tremendous asset, IMO. I'm just being wishy-washy; he needs to be in this organization. When he is gone, we will not see anyone like him for a long time.
:whiner:

4th Gen. Sox Fan
11-16-2005, 01:08 PM
Seeing Thomas in anything but a Sox uniform wouldn't be right, like when Jordan played for the Wizards or when Emmitt Smith played for the Cardinals

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2005, 01:08 PM
The Sox gain a hitter they can actually rely on. That's what. If you offer Frank an incentive-laden contract for next year, and he can't make it through a full season yet again, then we're stuck in a situation where we have to make a trade. We won't have Everett as a fallback option again. What the Sox gain by not offering Frank an incentive-laden contract is the ability to pursue a better DH, someone like Delgado.Maybe I'm missing something. Explain how offering Frank a contract prevents them from pursuing Delgado.

voodoochile
11-16-2005, 01:12 PM
At this point, I would imagine that Frank and KW/Ozzie are all concerned about Frank's health. I haven't heard much positive news about Franks rehab, but on the flip side, I haven't heard anything negative. I think if Frank is healthy and can contribute, the Sox will sign him. If he isn't, I would imagine that Frank would consider retirement instead of having his last few pro years be not very productive and with numerous teams.

Actually, an article that someone posted here a while back said he was ahead of schedule and doctors were noticing new bone growth in the problem ankle around the new break, so he at least has the potential to return to the game at this stage in the game.

Get it done, JR/KW. Find a way to get Frank back though I do agree, not at any cost. Frank has to be willing to take a reduced base salary with incentives for PT and production.

voodoochile
11-16-2005, 01:20 PM
In all honesty I love Frank Thomas as a ballplayer, however we just won a championship. We are at the top and the only way you stay at the top is replacing what is not needed. To carry Frank on the roster KW needs 100% proof that Frank will be ready to go come April 1st. If he is not then resigning him is a mistake and not only would KW be holding the franchise down, but Frank would as well. As productive as Everett was last year it was a wasted roster spot, but a spot we needed to waste because of the unknown we had with Frank. Personally if we could use the money from Frank and Carl's contract and acquire a Delgado to DH then, sorry Frank thanks for the memories, but its time to move on. Our concern needs to be with the 06 and beyond Chicago White Sox. Look at the Yankees and Bernie Williams, or the Mets and Mike Piazza. I understand there should be a sense of loyalty, but when it hurts the team either financially or physically (wasted roster spot) or both loyalty needs to be reconsidered.

No, they don't need that proof. If Frank looks like he could play half a season, he could well be worth the money. The point would be to give him a chance to finish healing this time. Frank himself admited he rushed back this last time and his ankle never did feel 100%. They certainly can afford to carry Frank on the 40 man roster and on the DL to open the season if they feel he can eventually play again and can make a return sometime next season.

You don't walk away from that much talent, integrity and loyalty unless you have proof he will not play next year at all which would probably mean likely never...

voodoochile
11-16-2005, 01:22 PM
I'll feel bad...mostly for Frank. He really had his head up his ass there for a few years....he was the "big skirt" for a while there (wouldn't play the field, handing out doctors notes, etc.)...but he's seems to have finally matured and now "gets it"....but he's starting to fall apart physically. Would love to see him 100% for one full season...I think he would be incredible. But at his age, his weight, nearly two complete seasons of dealing with the same/similar injury....time might have passed him by.

I have banned people for using that nickname. Consider yourself warned. You can believe what is written in the Tribune if you want to, but don't repost that crap here ever again. :angry:

Flight #24
11-16-2005, 01:24 PM
Maybe I'm missing something. Explain how offering Frank a contract prevents them from pursuing Delgado.

Well, the issues are that you'd be setting up a situation where if Frank's healthy, he gets to play maybe 2-3x/week because playing him means sitting one of Delgado/Konerko. Highly unlikely IMO that that's a real attractive situation for him (or the other 2), even though he'd like to stay.

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2005, 01:49 PM
Well, the issues are that you'd be setting up a situation where if Frank's healthy, he gets to play maybe 2-3x/week because playing him means sitting one of Delgado/Konerko. Highly unlikely IMO that that's a real attractive situation for him (or the other 2), even though he'd like to stay.So they'd have TOO MANY good hitters? Yeah, that would really suck.

I don't think FT would play more than 4 days a week in any case. Konerko played 158 games last year, so a day off once a week wouldn't hurt him at all. Besides, a healthy Frank Thomas > Carlos Delgado, so that's a net positive, even though Delgado might not be happy about it.

Of course, the simple solution is to sign Brian Giles instead of trading for Delgado.

Flight #24
11-16-2005, 01:59 PM
So they'd have TOO MANY good hitters? Yeah, that would really suck.

I don't think FT would play more than 4 days a week in any case. Konerko played 158 games last year, so a day off once a week wouldn't hurt him at all. Besides, a healthy Frank Thomas > Carlos Delgado, so that's a net positive, even though Delgado might not be happy about it.

Of course, the simple solution is to sign Brian Giles instead of trading for Delgado.


Well, when you can't play one of your 3 best hitters on a regular basis, that's not generally a good thing. No way Delgado is anywhere near happy with anything except being a near-fulltime player. Same with a healthy Frank. Same with Konerko.

Could it possibly work? Sure. Is it likely to? Nope. Sucks that that's the case, but it's just the way it is.

Which is why I too love the Giles idea. It's a lot easier to keep everyone happy & productive when you can rotate Rowand,Dye,Giles,Frank,Pods through OF/DH than trying to squeeze 3 guys into 2 slots.

Rikirk
11-16-2005, 02:24 PM
I think im in the majority here...

But It would be very strange to see Frank in another teams uniform.

I really do hope he stays on the White Sox, ...I really do. But it seems money will dictate what happens next.

Seeing as the sox just won the series...doesnt this mean they have extra cash to spread around? So cant they keep both Frank and Konerko now? I dont know the ins and outs of team management...and i dont want to know it...it makes my head hurt...im just looking for a simple answer.

peace.

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2005, 02:50 PM
Well, when you can't play one of your 3 best hitters on a regular basis, that's not generally a good thing. No way Delgado is anywhere near happy with anything except being a near-fulltime player. Same with a healthy Frank. Same with Konerko.

Could it possibly work? Sure. Is it likely to? Nope. Sucks that that's the case, but it's just the way it is.

Which is why I too love the Giles idea. It's a lot easier to keep everyone happy & productive when you can rotate Rowand,Dye,Giles,Frank,Pods through OF/DH than trying to squeeze 3 guys into 2 slots.There are always so many uncertainties that it's difficult to project these things. How many days can FT play? What if somebody gets hurt? Sometimes you can out-think yourself. In the end, IMO if you have an opportunity to improve your team at a low cost you take it. Signing Frank Thomas improves the team. Having too many good hitters is a lot easier problem to deal with than having too few.

Jjav829
11-16-2005, 04:09 PM
Maybe I'm missing something. Explain how offering Frank a contract prevents them from pursuing Delgado.

I guess I should be more specific. I'm going under the assumption that Konerko is re-signed (or another 1B acquired) and that Delgado, or whoever else, would be the everyday DH, not the everyday first baseman.

schmitty9800
11-16-2005, 04:12 PM
He's my favorite player of all time, but if we get Paulie back I don't think he should be signed for anything more than 2 million. If they can't do a deal at around that price, then he needs to move on.

Or as some have said, incentives could really work.

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2005, 04:40 PM
I guess I should be more specific. I'm going under the assumption that Konerko is re-signed (or another 1B acquired) and that Delgado, or whoever else, would be the everyday DH, not the everyday first baseman.And even if they do both of those things, Thomas isn't going to play more than 3-4 days a week. I don't see a big problem having all three on the roster.

Jjav829
11-16-2005, 04:55 PM
And even if they do both of those things, Thomas isn't going to play more than 3-4 days a week. I don't see a big problem having all three on the roster.

There is no room for him to play. First, you really think Frank would want to be here in Konerko and Delgado are here? Second, if you sign Konerko to a long term deal and trade for Delgado, taking on his big deal, you are doing so to play these guys 150+ games, hopefully even more. So where exactly is Frank going to play?

Ol' No. 2
11-16-2005, 05:10 PM
There is no room for him to play. First, you really think Frank would want to be here in Konerko and Delgado are here? Second, if you sign Konerko to a long term deal and trade for Delgado, taking on his big deal, you are doing so to play these guys 150+ games, hopefully even more. So where exactly is Frank going to play?If Frank is healthy, he's still not going to play every day. And it's not the end of the world if Delgado and Konerko get a day off from time to time. IMO, if you get a chance to improve your team for not much money, you take it and worry about finding playing time later. You don't sign inferior players because they won't be upset if they're not playing.

Taliesinrk
11-16-2005, 07:44 PM
If Frank is healthy, he's still not going to play every day. And it's not the end of the world if Delgado and Konerko get a day off from time to time. IMO, if you get a chance to improve your team for not much money, you take it and worry about finding playing time later. You don't sign inferior players because they won't be upset if they're not playing.

The problem I see with this method of thought is that Konerko and Delgado wouldn't just be getting a day off from time to time.. they'd be playing about the same amount of time that Thomas would be...
Let's say the Sox play 6 games/ week and Frank plays in 4 of those. There are 2 positions to be filled over 6 games, which means that there are 12 slots to be filled for 6 games by three people. Frank just filled 4 of them, leaving 8 remaining between both Delgado and Konerko. That's 4 games a piece.. I don't care how much of a "team player" Konerko is (or for that matter Delgado, if you think he's that much of a team player), someone's not going to be happy. I agree with the opinion that you should get talent and then worry about problems.. however, I just think it's difficult for Kenny/ Jerry to justify paying that much $$ for PK/CD when it could be spent towards helping out many other aspects of the team...

Jjav829
11-16-2005, 08:15 PM
If Frank is healthy, he's still not going to play every day. And it's not the end of the world if Delgado and Konerko get a day off from time to time. IMO, if you get a chance to improve your team for not much money, you take it and worry about finding playing time later. You don't sign inferior players because they won't be upset if they're not playing.

You still missed the point. You don't go sign Konerko to a 5-year, $60 million deal (or whatever it takes) to give him two days a week off. If Konerko is back, he's going to be playing 150 or more games. Just the same, you don't go trade for Delgado, give up good players and take on a big salary to give Delgado 2 or more days off each week. If these two guys are on the roster, they are playing a combined 300 games, barring injury. That leaves a maximum of 24 games open.

You build a team that is going to function as a team. Ask Peter Angelos or Daniel Snyder how that collection of talent philosophy works. You have to build a team.

Jjav829
11-16-2005, 08:17 PM
The problem I see with this method of thought is that Konerko and Delgado wouldn't just be getting a day off from time to time.. they'd be playing about the same amount of time that Thomas would be...
Let's say the Sox play 6 games/ week and Frank plays in 4 of those. There are 2 positions to be filled over 6 games, which means that there are 12 slots to be filled for 6 games by three people. Frank just filled 4 of them, leaving 8 remaining between both Delgado and Konerko. That's 4 games a piece.. I don't care how much of a "team player" Konerko is (or for that matter Delgado, if you think he's that much of a team player), someone's not going to be happy. I agree with the opinion that you should get talent and then worry about problems.. however, I just think it's difficult for Kenny/ Jerry to justify paying that much $$ for PK/CD when it could be spent towards helping out many other aspects of the team...

Exactly, except it wouldn't be Konerko and Delgado that Ozzie would be finding playing time for. Konerko and Delgado would be the ones receiving guaranteed playing time, not Frank.

Bobbo35
11-17-2005, 09:39 AM
He is the most under appreciated athlete to ever play in Chicago. Frank deserves to be at home for his last at bat, while he gets a 3 minute standing ovation. He's earned it and deserves it.

He never cheated and in all honesty, was a bargain for the numbers he put up year after year.



Damn Straight!!

Ol' No. 2
11-17-2005, 11:11 AM
You still missed the point. You don't go sign Konerko to a 5-year, $60 million deal (or whatever it takes) to give him two days a week off. If Konerko is back, he's going to be playing 150 or more games. Just the same, you don't go trade for Delgado, give up good players and take on a big salary to give Delgado 2 or more days off each week. If these two guys are on the roster, they are playing a combined 300 games, barring injury. That leaves a maximum of 24 games open.

You build a team that is going to function as a team. Ask Peter Angelos or Daniel Snyder how that collection of talent philosophy works. You have to build a team.I didn't miss the point. In fact, that's exactly why I would rather get a DH/OF instead of a DH/1B. It makes it easier to get all your best bats in the lineup. But even if they do get Delgado, I just don't necessarily agree that it means you shouldn't sign Frank Thomas. The key question is, What else would you do with the roster spot that you would use for Frank Thomas? Bring back Timo Perez? Unless you have someone better, it makes more sense to sign Frank Thomas and figure out later who plays when. Even if they do have Thomas, Delgado and Konerko, they still have enough roster space for a backup catcher, a utility IF and a 4th OF. What else do you need?

Flight #24
11-17-2005, 12:22 PM
I didn't miss the point. In fact, that's exactly why I would rather get a DH/OF instead of a DH/1B. It makes it easier to get all your best bats in the lineup. But even if they do get Delgado, I just don't necessarily agree that it means you shouldn't sign Frank Thomas. The key question is, What else would you do with the roster spot that you would use for Frank Thomas? Bring back Timo Perez? Unless you have someone better, it makes more sense to sign Frank Thomas and figure out later who plays when. Even if they do have Thomas, Delgado and Konerko, they still have enough roster space for a backup catcher, a utility IF and a 4th OF. What else do you need?

The question then becomes: Are you better off with Timo as an extra bench OF or no one. Because Delgado & Thomas are going to be similar in performance, so swapping them in for one another doesn't gain you a ton. It's just a question of how much you value the extra backup OF v. having an upgrade to Delgado/Konerko once a week each.

I'm guessing most GMs would take Delgado/Konerko every day and the extra backup OF. PR value is worth something, but from a straight baseball standpoint, it's not a great use of a roster spot.

TomBradley72
11-17-2005, 12:55 PM
I have banned people for using that nickname. Consider yourself warned. You can believe what is written in the Tribune if you want to, but don't repost that crap here ever again. :angry:

That opinion is based on watching him play 100's of games over the late 90's when he was a complete head case...and offered very little leadership...an opinion that was shared by many of his teammates at the time (from my personal conversations with them) it has nothing to do with the Tribune. Regarding your censorhip of comments criticizing Frank Thomas on these boards....message received.

pythons007
11-17-2005, 01:00 PM
I think the Sox should sign Thomas to a one year contract. He has been here his whole career and holds so many franchise records. I think he deserves to end his career here as a White Sox player. I want to see Thomas next year as the Come back player of the year again. **** Giambi and his roid***!

Ol' No. 2
11-17-2005, 01:16 PM
The question then becomes: Are you better off with Timo as an extra bench OF or no one. Because Delgado & Thomas are going to be similar in performance, so swapping them in for one another doesn't gain you a ton. It's just a question of how much you value the extra backup OF v. having an upgrade to Delgado/Konerko once a week each.

I'm guessing most GMs would take Delgado/Konerko every day and the extra backup OF. PR value is worth something, but from a straight baseball standpoint, it's not a great use of a roster spot.They already have 4 OF and Ozuna for utility IF. So adding Frank Thomas basically replaces Timo Perez or Willie Harris on the roster. Are you saying most GMs would choose Timo Perez or Willie Harris over Frank Thomas?

MisterB
11-17-2005, 01:36 PM
Regarding your censorhip of comments criticizing Frank Thomas on these boards....message received.

It isn't the criticism, it's the particular Flub-fan-created and Tribune-disseminated epithet you chose to use.

gowhitesox
11-17-2005, 02:02 PM
The Big hurt has been the franchise for a long time now. I am so happy that he will get finally get a World Series ring, I have faith in Kenny Williams and Jerry that they will work out something even for a year. He would be a excellent back up DH or pinch hitter.

I hope he gets his ring wearing number 35 as a player.

Keep the Big Hurt!!

DaleJRFan
11-17-2005, 02:08 PM
he was the "big skirt" for a while there

I'd really like to see someone call him that to his face.

:hurt

"Bring it."

DaleJRFan
11-17-2005, 02:10 PM
They already have 4 OF and Ozuna for utility IF. So adding Frank Thomas basically replaces Timo Perez or Willie Harris on the roster. Are you saying most GMs would choose Timo Perez or Willie Harris over Frank Thomas?

Two lefthanded automatic outs over a first ballot hall-of-famer? The mere notion scares me. Too bad Ozuna can't switch hit. Can that be taught???

Jjav829
11-17-2005, 02:30 PM
I didn't miss the point. In fact, that's exactly why I would rather get a DH/OF instead of a DH/1B. It makes it easier to get all your best bats in the lineup. But even if they do get Delgado, I just don't necessarily agree that it means you shouldn't sign Frank Thomas. The key question is, What else would you do with the roster spot that you would use for Frank Thomas? Bring back Timo Perez? Unless you have someone better, it makes more sense to sign Frank Thomas and figure out later who plays when. Even if they do have Thomas, Delgado and Konerko, they still have enough roster space for a backup catcher, a utility IF and a 4th OF. What else do you need?

What about a backup centerfielder? In the Rowand thread you expressed concern about trading Rowand away because Anderson is unproven. So if Rowand is traded for someone like Thome or Delgado, then Anderson becomes the starting centerfielder.

Either way, this discussion is quickly becoming pointless. Frank is not going to come back here if Konerko and Delgado/Thome/Helton are on the roster and he has no starting job. The Sox might offer him a contract just to make it look like they want him back, but we all know that Frank is going to want a starting job or at the very least a chance to compete for a starting job. If Konerko and Delgado/Thome/Helton are on the roster, Frank won't have a chance to start.

Ol' No. 2
11-17-2005, 02:51 PM
What about a backup centerfielder? In the Rowand thread you expressed concern about trading Rowand away because Anderson is unproven. So if Rowand is traded for someone like Thome or Delgado, then Anderson becomes the starting centerfielder.

Either way, this discussion is quickly becoming pointless. Frank is not going to come back here if Konerko and Delgado/Thome/Helton are on the roster and he has no starting job. The Sox might offer him a contract just to make it look like they want him back, but we all know that Frank is going to want a starting job or at the very least a chance to compete for a starting job. If Konerko and Delgado/Thome/Helton are on the roster, Frank won't have a chance to start.If you trade Rowand to get Delgado, then you'd obviously need to get a 4th OF. But regardless of who it is, there's still room on the roster for 4 OF even if you have Konerko, Delgado and Thomas.

I don't agree that Frank would expect to play every day in order to sign. I don't think any team can afford to make that committment given the uncertainty about his ankle. Any team would have to have another good DH with whom Thomas will have to share time. If he doesn't want to sign under those conditions, then thanks for the memories, Frank. But I think that's as good an offer as he's going to get.

Remember, this only becomes an issue if Frank is healthy playing him improves your team. That's a GOOD thing. If that happens, then Delgado sits more than he'd like and I don't care how much he's making. You play the players that give you the best chance to win.

Flight #24
11-17-2005, 02:56 PM
They already have 4 OF and Ozuna for utility IF. So adding Frank Thomas basically replaces Timo Perez or Willie Harris on the roster. Are you saying most GMs would choose Timo Perez or Willie Harris over Frank Thomas?

It's not that simple. Obviously straight up, Frank would be chosen over most players. But if you ask the question as would a GM want an extra roster spot for 162 games, or take that away but give him Frank Thomas for 30 games.....a much different decision.

And if you trade for a high-priced Delgado and resign a high-priced Konerko, you're not getting more than 30-50 games for even a healthy Frank.

Ol' No. 2
11-17-2005, 03:13 PM
It's not that simple. Obviously straight up, Frank would be chosen over most players. But if you ask the question as would a GM want an extra roster spot for 162 games, or take that away but give him Frank Thomas for 30 games.....a much different decision.

And if you trade for a high-priced Delgado and resign a high-priced Konerko, you're not getting more than 30-50 games for even a healthy Frank.There are enough roster spots to keep 4 OF and a utility IF and Thomas, Konerko and Delgado, so you're not short-changing anywhere else to have Thomas on the roster. Ultimately he replaces the 25th man on the roster. How many games would a 25th man play? If he plays more and you have to make a decision to sit someone else, it's because he's productive. That's a GOOD thing. I just can't see where the downside is, as long as he's willing to sign knowing exactly where he stands.

Deadguy
11-17-2005, 08:23 PM
I guess I should be more specific. I'm going under the assumption that Konerko is re-signed (or another 1B acquired) and that Delgado, or whoever else, would be the everyday DH, not the everyday first baseman.

That's a rather large assumption to make. The Sox aren't going to spend 23+ million per year on a 1b/DH combo. If Konerko is resigned, we're not going to see a big name at DH. It'll more than likely be someone like Nevin, Martinez, or someone within the organization, if it's not Frank.

Canadian_SoxFan
11-17-2005, 10:01 PM
That's a rather large assumption to make. The Sox aren't going to spend 23+ million per year on a 1b/DH combo. If Konerko is resigned, we're not going to see a big name at DH. It'll more than likely be someone like Nevin, Martinez, or someone within the organization, if it's not Frank. I agree,but I think that someone like Borchard or Anderson will be the DH if Frank cannot perform. If the Sox resign Konerko, there is NO chance they go after Delgado. If Frank is healthy he will be the full time DH.

The Deacon
11-18-2005, 02:14 PM
There are enough roster spots to keep 4 OF and a utility IF and Thomas, Konerko and Delgado, so you're not short-changing anywhere else to have Thomas on the roster. Ultimately he replaces the 25th man on the roster. How many games would a 25th man play? If he plays more and you have to make a decision to sit someone else, it's because he's productive. That's a GOOD thing. I just can't see where the downside is, as long as he's willing to sign knowing exactly where he stands.


If they had Delgado, Thomas and Konerko (it's not going to happen anyway) it would be complete disaster. No team carries 2 DHs, the 25th roster spot is used for somone who can play the field or pitch.

Flight #24
11-18-2005, 02:19 PM
If they had Delgado, Thomas and Konerko (it's not going to happen anyway) it would be complete disaster. No team carries 2 DHs, the 25th roster spot is used for somone who can play the field or pitch.

FWIW:
There were indications Thursday the Mets were ratcheting up their pursuit of Carlos Delgado, the South-Florida Sun-Sentinel reports.
The Marlins could look to acquire Yusmeiro Petit and/or Xavier Nady in exchange for Delgado. Florida's payroll may drop from $66 million all the way to $50 million, which would make a Delgado trade a must. Nov. 18 - 4:35 am et

Back on point, Thomas wants a few things: 1)500HR, 2)another ring - with him contributing more to it, 3)retire with the Sox, 4)$$$$$.

He has no shot at being a significant contributor or getting to 500HR in 30-50games. He also won't make much, so depending on exxactly how badly he wants to remain with the Sox, he might as well take less and go somewhere where he can achieve some of the other goals.

I'm all for depth, but usable depth. Keeping Thomas with Delgado/Konerko (or Thome/Helton & Konerko) is like telling him "Frank, we'll give you a contract, but you play in the minors unless someone gets hurt".

Ol' No. 2
11-18-2005, 03:24 PM
If they had Delgado, Thomas and Konerko (it's not going to happen anyway) it would be complete disaster. No team carries 2 DHs, the 25th roster spot is used for somone who can play the field or pitch.Paradoxically, the 25th man is the most highly competitive spot on the entire roster. It is normally decided only in the last few days of spring training, being bestowed on the replacement-level player who distinguishes himself from his competition by, over the previous month, most successfully showcasing his few talents and masking his many deficiencies. This annual event provides fodder for a yearly ritual among fans: to wit, interminable arguments over who should receive his high honor, as posters extol the virtues of their favorites while insisting all others suck. But make no mistake - it's a tallest midget contest, nothing more. If Frank Thomas takes a roster spot, bumping next year's tallest midget back to AAA, rest assured the fans will neither miss him nor long remember his name.

nlentz88
11-18-2005, 03:47 PM
If the Sox don't re-sign Frank I won't be surprised, but I will be very disappointed. I won't blame the Sox if they think Frank can't help the team in 2006, but I will hope that Frank does succeed wherever he lands (and he WILL get picked up by another team). Frank has meant so much to the organization over the years, and is my all-time favorite Sox player. Seeing him in another team's uniform will be a blow to me, but I'll still root for him. If he ends up playing for a team that visits the Cell next year, I'll do everything in my power to get tickets to see him play. And when he comes up to bat I'll be cheering like mad for him. I love Big Frank and would dearly want to see him back in a Sox uni next season. But if that can't come to pass, then my support for him will follow him wherever he goes.

TomBradley72
11-18-2005, 03:54 PM
But make no mistake - it's a tallest midget contest, nothing more. If Frank Thomas takes a roster spot, bumping next year's tallest midget back to AAA, rest assured the fans will neither miss him nor long remember his name.

Unless you're a serious contender....in which case the "tallest midget" hit the HR to win Game 3 of the World Series (Blum), stole a base and scored the winning run in game 2 of the ALCS (Ozuna) or gained a pinch hit single and scored the winning run of Game 4 of the World Series (Harris).

Jjav829
11-18-2005, 04:21 PM
That's a rather large assumption to make. The Sox aren't going to spend 23+ million per year on a 1b/DH combo. If Konerko is resigned, we're not going to see a big name at DH. It'll more than likely be someone like Nevin, Martinez, or someone within the organization, if it's not Frank.

I don't think it's much of an assumption. If KW trades for someone like Delgado or Thome he will likely get the other team to eat part of the contract. This team has most players locked in for next year and with payroll increases the Sox should be able to afford to pay $20 million for Konerko and a combination of Thome or Delgado. Besides, we're talking about our 3-4 hitters here, not a #9 hitter. If the Sox are going to shell out big money anywhere in the lineup it should be to the middle-of-the-order hitters.

Deadguy
11-18-2005, 09:10 PM
I don't think it's much of an assumption.

Then you obviously have no clue about Delgado, because if you did, you'd know he refused to DH in Toronto, and he won't do it here.

The Deacon
11-19-2005, 12:59 AM
Paradoxically, the 25th man is the most highly competitive spot on the entire roster. It is normally decided only in the last few days of spring training, being bestowed on the replacement-level player who distinguishes himself from his competition by, over the previous month, most successfully showcasing his few talents and masking his many deficiencies. This annual event provides fodder for a yearly ritual among fans: to wit, interminable arguments over who should receive his high honor, as posters extol the virtues of their favorites while insisting all others suck. But make no mistake - it's a tallest midget contest, nothing more. If Frank Thomas takes a roster spot, bumping next year's tallest midget back to AAA, rest assured the fans will neither miss him nor long remember his name.

Thats very cute. Very, very poetic. However, in the real world of baseball, teams don't carry 2 DH's. Sorry.

The Deacon
11-19-2005, 01:15 AM
Paradoxically, the 25th man is the most highly competitive spot on the entire roster. It is normally decided only in the last few days of spring training, being bestowed on the replacement-level player who distinguishes himself from his competition by, over the previous month, most successfully showcasing his few talents and masking his many deficiencies. This annual event provides fodder for a yearly ritual among fans: to wit, interminable arguments over who should receive his high honor, as posters extol the virtues of their favorites while insisting all others suck. But make no mistake - it's a tallest midget contest, nothing more. If Frank Thomas takes a roster spot, bumping next year's tallest midget back to AAA, rest assured the fans will neither miss him nor long remember his name.

One more. The last team that carried a strict DH on their roster out of SENTIMENT?? Yes, that would be the Houston Astros. Even shares a birthday with Thomas. Mr. Jeff Bagwell. Bagwell never saw the field because he couldnt play it anymore. Jeff Bagwell meet Mr. Bobby Jenks. Astros lose in 4. At least Astro fans can sleep soundly knowing Bagwell got his chance in the World Series. Except that bsaeball isnt about senitment, it's about positioning yourself to win. Having a guy who weighs 270+ and has had TWO years worth of the SAME ankle injury AND can't play the field does the White Sox no good. :dtroll:

Jjav829
11-19-2005, 11:00 AM
Then you obviously have no clue about Delgado, because if you did, you'd know he refused to DH in Toronto, and he won't do it here.

I don't care what he refused to do. If Delgado is told to be the DH, and he wants to collect the millions of dollars he is owed, he will be the DH. Besides, the newest rumors say that Thome, not Delgado, is KW's main target as a DH and insurance in case Konerko leaves.

RedPinStripes
11-19-2005, 11:06 AM
I'd like to see one superstar start and finish his career with the Sox. If it don't happen , I'll be pissed to see him wearing a Detroit jersey or whatever. Thome would be a nice replacement. I think he's got a few years left in him.

Screw Delgado. I'm not even going to start on him.

chisox
11-20-2005, 06:07 PM
as was stated before, baseball isn't about senitment, it's about positioning yourself to win. i would love to see frank back–and the sox should explore every reasonable option to keep him– but resiging frank shouldn't come at the expense of the team.

didn't merle haggard come out with a song protesting the war in 2003?

PKalltheway
11-20-2005, 11:13 PM
Of course I would like to see the Big Hurt back in 2006, but on a part-time basis. I don't think he can stay healthy enough to even DH throughout a whole season. Kenny Williams should get another player to help take the load off of Thomas even at DH. If Thomas doesn't sign, then he should retire in a Sox uniform. He already has his ring, holds nearly every offensive record on the team, and he would definately get his number retired immediately afterwards.

Deuce
11-21-2005, 12:02 AM
back to the topic/question at hand...i would feel bad if frank did not sign. he has been my favorite ballplayer for the last decade, i would hate to see him leave chicago. with that said, i share the sentiment that many of you have expressed about getting a younger, healthier DH/1B.:pudge

Remember Pudge.

bobowhite
11-21-2005, 09:47 AM
Topic at hand:

If Frank were to sign with another organization, presumably because the Sox did not make a reasonable offer and Frank wanted to get to 500 homers.

I would feel bad for the White Sox. I would be disappointed that a player who is one of my favorites was not retained. On the other hand, I'd be happy for Frank that he was completing a career goal that should guarentee him first ballot election to the Hall of Fame. I would cheer for Frank when I saw him wearing any other team's uniform and hope the Sox beat his teammates brains in. (Exceptions being made for a) that minor league team on the North side of Chicago, B) Yankee$, C) Indians, D) Tokyo Giants. All of them I boo, regardless.)

Flight #24
11-21-2005, 10:12 AM
As a gigantic Frank Fan (among others, I know), it's a tough call. You can't depend on the guy to stay healthy at this point, and unfortunately, outside of Giles, there aren't any options to add a proven big stick that doesn't play 1B/DH. Therefore the only ways to significantly improve the O are to a)keep Frank healthy - which is a crapshoot or b)turn him into a 40-game player or let him go entirely - neither of which is appealing to anyone.

Winning is the key tho, so if you err, you have to err on the side of not believing Frank will be back and acting appropriately. That means acquiring the best hitter you can get at the best value.

The one other possibility would be Sheff. I know many here don't like him, but he's a legit big stick, can move to the OF to displace a lesser hitter and create room for Frank, and I don't believe that in the past 5-7 years he's had clubhouse issues, more the "did he know what he was getting rubbed with" and payroll issues. If he'll toe the line and play for the Sox, he's probably the best hitter out there, and he's on a 1-yr deal, so even with an extension, it's not like your'e taking on a 4-6 year contract. 2-3 max. Which fits the timeline just fine.

PKalltheway
11-21-2005, 05:28 PM
If you were to take some of the load of being DH off Thomas, you need to get somebody who is younger and can produce a little more, if possible.

:hurt