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View Full Version : Anyone Else Think the WSox Will Make a Run for Juan Pierre?


TomBradley72
11-12-2005, 03:54 PM
Looking at all of the recent quotes from Ozzie regarding wanting to increase the overall team speed....and with Juan P. heading for arbitration...anyone else think the Wsox mightl go after Juan Pierre? Seems like it would be consistent with Ozzie's approach....they need some more pop in their line up...so maybe a package that includes Rowand/Marte + one other player?

vafan
11-12-2005, 03:57 PM
This guy doesn't interest me at all. We have a Juan Pierre on our team already at a vastly reduced price - his name is Willie Harris.

MrX
11-12-2005, 04:08 PM
There would be individuals who had more homeruns by themselves then our 3 outfielders combined if you added him.

bafiarocks03
11-12-2005, 04:31 PM
Yah..How about NO! We have Willie!! :D: And we better keep him!

veeter
11-12-2005, 04:36 PM
That's the first time I've heard Juan Pierre equating to more pop. And what's with some guys wanting to overpay all the time. Rowand/Marte plus another player? We might be getting screwed, Rowand straight up for that guy.

CLR01
11-12-2005, 04:39 PM
Yah..How about NO! We have Willie!! :D: And we better keep him!


in triple A......

seanpmurphy
11-12-2005, 04:41 PM
Juan Pierre = more pop?

9 HR, 3411 ABs

Courtesy of http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pierrju01.shtml

WestSox
11-12-2005, 04:59 PM
This guy doesn't interest me at all. We have a Juan Pierre on our team already at a vastly reduced price - his name is Willie Harris.

LOL! Willie Harris. :rolleyes:

Does Willie Harris have a career .305 BA and 267 career stolen bases?

Chisox003
11-12-2005, 05:02 PM
This guy doesn't interest me at all. We have a Juan Pierre on our team already at a vastly reduced price - his name is Willie Harris.
Yet you've started a thread praising Brian Giles like he's Roberto Clemente and ripping our entire current (World Champion) outfield?

:rolleyes:

Please, pass it my way......
:bong:

MadetoOrta
11-12-2005, 05:23 PM
LOL! Willie Harris. :rolleyes:

Does Willie Harris have a career .305 BA and 267 career stolen bases?

Beat me to it. Wille = Juan Pierre? Wow.

getonbckthr
11-12-2005, 06:00 PM
sounds like Pierre will be on the northside. Corey Patterson anyone?:cool:

SoxFan76
11-12-2005, 06:23 PM
Yah..How about NO! We have Willie!! :D: And we better keep him!

I always like your posts....but come on. You can't let your obssesion with Willie cover the fact that he's a mediocre ballplayer.

nccwsfan
11-12-2005, 06:31 PM
I do think the White Sox will try to get someone from Florida- they seem like a team that's looking to cut payroll. I don't think they'll get Delgado (opinion only), but Pierre is most definitely a possibility....I would love to have these numbers on the team (#9 hole?)

podserifik!
11-12-2005, 06:37 PM
Well I think he would be a great # 2 hitter.

ChiSoxIn06
11-12-2005, 06:39 PM
last i heard it was the cubs that were going after pierre but i may have heard that wrong...and i hate to break this to you but willie harris is no juan pierre.

Baby Fisk
11-12-2005, 06:43 PM
Juan D'Vaughan? Is that like Dwayne Wayne? :?:

Anyway, Pierre would be interesting. Two bonafide speedsters at 1-2 would send pitchers into conniptions. Double steals all year long. Crazy stuff!

Jurr
11-12-2005, 06:43 PM
The problem with getting a Juan Pierre is twofold. #1. You don't really have a place to play him in the outfield. We have our three outfield guys, and that Jermaine Dye to first base crap is just that- crap. Pods, Dye, and Rowand are great outfielders, and we are good there.

#2. With Pierre in the lineup, we're going to see a much faster ball club, but we'r e going to lose pop regardless of where he's put in that lineup. If we indeed lose PK, that's almost too much HR hitting to lose. I love his speed and his average, but we're not doing too much to help the O with a guy like that. Defensively, there's no way he brings an upgrade over what we've got.

Who would he replace? Pods? Dye? Rowand? Don't think so.

Malgar 12
11-12-2005, 07:15 PM
in triple A......

Hear ye Hear ye!!! (athough he did score the winning run in the WS)

Baby Fisk
11-12-2005, 07:28 PM
Hear ye Hear ye!!! (athough he did score the winning run in the WS)
Willie Harris: A Legacy to Last a Lunchtime.

:weewillie
"You better be buyin' that lunch, cuz I ain't buyin, I own this damn town, aaiight?"

nccwsfan
11-12-2005, 08:29 PM
The problem with getting a Juan Pierre is twofold. #1. You don't really have a place to play him in the outfield. We have our three outfield guys, and that Jermaine Dye to first base crap is just that- crap. Pods, Dye, and Rowand are great outfielders, and we are good there.

#2. With Pierre in the lineup, we're going to see a much faster ball club, but we'r e going to lose pop regardless of where he's put in that lineup. If we indeed lose PK, that's almost too much HR hitting to lose. I love his speed and his average, but we're not doing too much to help the O with a guy like that. Defensively, there's no way he brings an upgrade over what we've got.

Who would he replace? Pods? Dye? Rowand? Don't think so.

I would guess that they'd trade one of the OF's for Pierre, and the consensus would probably be Rowand, with the outfielders rotating between DH (provided we don't get a bonafide DH).

Bat Pierre #2 or #9. If he's 2 you have the deadly Pods/Pierre connection. I still prefer Iguchi batting #2 and having Pierre bat at #9. That would be just as deadly in the middle innings...all speculation of course.

TomBradley72
11-12-2005, 09:08 PM
That's the first time I've heard Juan Pierre equating to more pop. And what's with some guys wanting to overpay all the time. Rowand/Marte plus another player? We might be getting screwed, Rowand straight up for that guy.

My bad....I meant the Marlins are looking for a little more pop....

CanBuehrleWait
11-12-2005, 09:36 PM
Guess throw me in the FOWH club. I like what I saw from him this year. His plate discipline seemed improved. Overall he appeared to shorten his swing and turn into a slap hitter that walks to boot. If he becomes that type of hitter, keeps the patience, and keeps playing pretty solid defense he might make some team happy. Even if its just as a Graff type super bench player I'd like it to be on our team (unless he can be packaged in a trade for one of santo=dorf's sig :cool:). How many people on this squad do we have that can score from first on a double, play a solid 2nd base, and play a reasonable outfield in a crunch. So yea, granted he's been rough in the past, but if your gonna beat him up I will at least give him some credit for showing improvement as well. And no this isn't Willie Harris, his mom, brother, uncle, dad, grandparent or kid :redneck

MHOUSE
11-12-2005, 09:47 PM
I do like the idea of getting someone else for the #2 hole and letting Iguchi bat lower in the order where he could drive in more runs. However, there's no place for him in the outfield. Dye and Pods aren't going anywhere and why trade Rowand right when he's coming into his own as a hitter and defensively as a center fielder? I love Rowand and we all ready have a speedy leadoff hitter with zero pop. Our outfield is awesome right now. Keep Konerko, upgrade the bench, maybe replace Marte and/or Vizcaino.

ilsox7
11-12-2005, 09:53 PM
I do like the idea of getting someone else for the #2 hole and letting Iguchi bat lower in the order where he could drive in more runs. However, there's no place for him in the outfield. Dye and Pods aren't going anywhere and why trade Rowand right when he's coming into his own as a hitter and defensively as a center fielder? I love Rowand and we all ready have a speedy leadoff hitter with zero pop. Our outfield is awesome right now. Keep Konerko, upgrade the bench, maybe replace Marte and/or Vizcaino.

I don't think you can say that Aaron is coming into his own offensively. He regressed last year from 2004 and a pretty major weakness of his was exposed at the plate. I don't think anyone here wants to take anything away from Aaron, but I would actually place the odds of him being a White Sox on Opening Day below 50%.

Tragg
11-12-2005, 10:50 PM
You want speed - sign Furcal.

Pierre is off of a lousy year.

This awe of the .500 marlins is kind of weird.

caulfield12
11-12-2005, 10:51 PM
I would guess that they'd trade one of the OF's for Pierre, and the consensus would probably be Rowand, with the outfielders rotating between DH (provided we don't get a bonafide DH).

Bat Pierre #2 or #9. If he's 2 you have the deadly Pods/Pierre connection. I still prefer Iguchi batting #2 and having Pierre bat at #9. That would be just as deadly in the middle innings...all speculation of course.

Thats fine, but we still have 2 huge issues from a power and average and RBI standpoint in the middle of the order.

I agree it would be better to keep Iguchi in the 2 hole and Pierre at 9th. Or, if he was really hot and Scot cold, they could flip-flop.

nodiggity59
11-12-2005, 11:00 PM
You want speed - sign Furcal.

Pierre is off of a lousy year.

This awe of the .500 marlins is kind of weird.

Agreed! But I feel the same about Furcal. 4+ years, $8mil+ plus for a leadoff hitter? That looks to be the least Furcal is going to get so, um, no. We're not the Red Sox and if we spend like them we'll have even more disastrous results.

oeo
11-12-2005, 11:11 PM
The problem with getting a Juan Pierre is twofold. #1. You don't really have a place to play him in the outfield. We have our three outfield guys, and that Jermaine Dye to first base crap is just that- crap. Pods, Dye, and Rowand are great outfielders, and we are good there.

#2. With Pierre in the lineup, we're going to see a much faster ball club, but we'r e going to lose pop regardless of where he's put in that lineup. If we indeed lose PK, that's almost too much HR hitting to lose. I love his speed and his average, but we're not doing too much to help the O with a guy like that. Defensively, there's no way he brings an upgrade over what we've got.

Who would he replace? Pods? Dye? Rowand? Don't think so.

I disagree on the power numbers IF we resign Paulie. If Pierre moves to the #2 spot, and Iguchi to the 6 or 7, Iguchi is going to put up better power numbers. We all know he can do it, he showed he could do it when he got the chance to do so. Iguchi can hit 10-15 more, and Pierre can hit about 5-10...that "replaces" Rowand's power numbers.

DickAllen72
11-12-2005, 11:19 PM
I disagree on the power numbers IF we resign Paulie. If Pierre moves to the #2 spot, and Iguchi to the 6 or 7, Iguchi is going to put up better power numbers. We all know he can do it, he showed he could do it when he got the chance to do so. Iguchi can hit 10-15 more, and Pierre can hit about 5-10...that "replaces" Rowand's power numbers.
Iguchi would hit more homers batting down in the order, but I doubt he would double his HR total from last season. Maybe 5-10 more.

Either way, we still have to replace Carl's power also.

DSpivack
11-13-2005, 02:14 AM
Guess throw me in the FOWH club. I like what I saw from him this year. His plate discipline seemed improved. Overall he appeared to shorten his swing and turn into a slap hitter that walks to boot. If he becomes that type of hitter, keeps the patience, and keeps playing pretty solid defense he might make some team happy. Even if its just as a Graff type super bench player I'd like it to be on our team (unless he can be packaged in a trade for one of santo=dorf's sig :cool:). How many people on this squad do we have that can score from first on a double, play a solid 2nd base, and play a reasonable outfield in a crunch. So yea, granted he's been rough in the past, but if your gonna beat him up I will at least give him some credit for showing improvement as well. And no this isn't Willie Harris, his mom, brother, uncle, dad, grandparent or kid :redneck

I more or less agree-- I think Willie Harris can be a solid 2B for a lot of teams in this league, and be a decent leadoff hitter if he can steal bases on a regular basis.

I just don't think the White Sox will ever be the team he starts with, not with Iguchi.

I see Willie putting up .270-.320-.350 every year, with the potential for 70 or 80 runs and 30 or so SBs.

munchman33
11-13-2005, 07:46 AM
For those of you saying Pierre provides no pop: I don't think you realize exactly how little pop Aaron Rowand provided last year.

For those of you saying Pierre is Willie Harris: Seek help.

nccwsfan
11-13-2005, 08:39 AM
Thats fine, but we still have 2 huge issues from a power and average and RBI standpoint in the middle of the order.

I agree it would be better to keep Iguchi in the 2 hole and Pierre at 9th. Or, if he was really hot and Scot cold, they could flip-flop.
No question, the first priority is to secure the middle of the order. Once we figure out the PK situation we'll know how much extra work needs to be done. Assuming they sign PK they'll find another bat for the middle. After that I would see them filling the other 'need' by getting a player like Pierre.

To answer another post, there isn't an admiration for the .500 Marlins, but the truth is that they're going to dump players, so it's the obvious choice of teams to speculate on. Juan Pierre is a better ballplayer than Willie Harris, period. That's an upgrade and if you can do it at a reasonable cost make the move.

Slightly off topic, I don't see any reasonable way that this team would go after Furcal. After they're done with the #3 and #4 hitters they won't be able to pay Furcal the dough he wants...

caulfield12
11-13-2005, 09:51 AM
Slightly off topic, I don't see any reasonable way that this team would go after Furcal. After they're done with the #3 and #4 hitters they won't be able to pay Furcal the dough he wants...

There is a Tribune article speculating about Furcal, the Mets and the Cubs, and two unnamed teams...I am sure the Braves would like to bring him back too, depending on his asking price. I do not see him moving to the OF at this stage of his career for the Yankees...he is only 27, or 29, but he is still a young guy. At shortstop, he has a great arm and ranks among the top 5-6. His offensive abilities would be more average for CF, and we do not even know how would he could play there.

If there is already speculation the Cubs do not want to pay $45 million million over a five year time period, I cannot see the White Sox doing it either.

MadetoOrta
11-13-2005, 09:59 AM
Furcal's agent stated the price is $50 million over 5 years for a guy who hit .338 over the last 70 games to raise his average to [I think] .284. No thanks. This is why baseball economics are so messed up. Imagine what Uribe is worth id Furcal gets $10 million a year. Keep spending the money on pitching and work around the rest of the roster.

caulfield12
11-13-2005, 10:15 AM
Furcal's agent stated the price is $50 million over 5 years for a guy who hit .338 over the last 70 games to raise his average to [I think] .284. No thanks. This is why baseball economics are so messed up. Imagine what Uribe is worth id Furcal gets $10 million a year. Keep spending the money on pitching and work around the rest of the roster.

$4 million versus $9-10 million is a significance difference, as Uribe is younger and has a bigger offensive upside than Furcal, FOR the MONEY he is making.

His agent backed off the $10 million asking price and five years a little bit, but it is ironic the Mets are paying Matsui $8 million, have to dump him and are going to spend another $9-10 million on a shortstop. They will eat at least half of that deal...it is a position the White Sox have fortunately never been in.

I take that back, lol....Navarro, Konerko is 2003 and now El Duque. But, by and large, they have done a great job avoiding this type of deal, and Konerko turned out okay, right?

jabrch
11-13-2005, 10:22 AM
I always like your posts....but come on. You can't let your obssesion with Willie cover the fact that he's a mediocre ballplayer.


Uh Oh... :-)

jabrch
11-13-2005, 10:24 AM
Pierre has a terrible arm. I don't want to see him in CF for us. That's not an upgrade over Aaron.

Furcal is a stud. But it would require moving someone, either Crede or Uribe. If we could sign Furcal, move Uribe to 3B, and use Crede to trade to someone for a stud hitter to DH or play 1B (Delgado - but the Marlins are tied to Lowell?), I'd be for that.

caulfield12
11-13-2005, 10:35 AM
Pierre has a terrible arm. I don't want to see him in CF for us. That's not an upgrade over Aaron.

Furcal is a stud. But it would require moving someone, either Crede or Uribe. If we could sign Furcal, move Uribe to 3B, and use Crede to trade to someone for a stud hitter to DH or play 1B (Delgado - but the Marlins are tied to Lowell?), I'd be for that.

Why would we move Uribe from a position that he is one of the three best in the American League? Didnt we learn anything from the Valentin-Clayton experiment or watching Willie Harris in CF?

He did pretty well over there in 2004, but his game is a much better fit at SS, both offensively and defensively.

We would gain with Delgado over Everett certainly, but what would we lose with Uribe and Crede? We still control Credes rights for two more years at very affordable salaries...he could keep maturing like Garland and be our 3B for the next 5-7 years. It is only because of Boras...or because everyone thinks last August-September-October was a fluke for Joe? Just curious.

The Marlins have to get rid of Lowell to play Crede...are we going to take him and half of his salary, at his age?

socko82
11-13-2005, 10:57 AM
I think this is possible (not likely, but possible) but it would depend on a couple of things. First being, the Sox believing none of their young outfielders are ready. Anderson looked ready defensively but offensively he had one great game, other than that he looked overmatched at the plate. As for Sweeney, Young etc. they may be great some day but they are unknowns. Pierre is a free agent after '06 so he could serve as a one year bridge until the kids are ready. That said, I believe the only way Pierre ends up here would be as an add on to a bigger Delgado deal. Much the same way the Marlins tried to tack on Lowell to all the Burnett deals last summer I could see them doing the same thing with Delgado/Pierre. Of course this also on hinges on Konerko leaving and Rowand being included in a package for Delgado.

vafan
11-13-2005, 11:48 AM
Furcal? Why??? Juan Uribe may be a streaky hitter, but when he's on, he is a tremendous offensive player, with a lot more pop than all but the best ML shortstops. Plus, he's signed for 2 more years (do we have an option?) at a modest salary. And do all of you forget the 3 plays he made in the WS clinching game? Or the throw he made to save one of those down-the-stretch games against Cleveland that, had it gone Cleveland's way, could have upended the whole season?

Pierre? Why???? The Sox won the World Series by being a power club that could win with speed. We already have a speed guy - Pods - in a power position - LF. Let's not sacrifice more HRs and weaken our outfield defense just to add a few more stolen bases. I think Aaron Rowand's 2004 numbers were up near his ceiling. But I think his 2005 numbers were his floor. Juan Pierre is a downgrade who is more expensive. Is it insanity to even consider him.

Tragg
11-13-2005, 11:51 AM
Substituting PIerre for Rowand would hurt the Sox a)offensively and b)defensively.

Why would we even consider doing this? The idea is to improve the ball club.

Jjav829
11-13-2005, 12:12 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Kenny did go after Pierre. But adding Pierre would make it even more important that Kenny add two big bats for the #3 and #4 spot. We would have absolutely no pop in the #1 and #2 spots, so those #3 and #4 hitters would have to be big time power threats.

Really, nothing would surprise me at this point. This is shaping up to be an extremely wild offseason. One GM described the GM meetings as a fantasy league where the GMs are thinking up anything they can possibly think up. If you like hot stove talk and a lot of trades, get ready for the Winter Meetings in a few weeks. They could be very fun. :smile:

beckett21
11-13-2005, 12:22 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Kenny did go after Pierre. But adding Pierre would make it even more important that Kenny add two big bats for the #3 and #4 spot. We would have absolutely no pop in the #1 and #2 spots, so those #3 and #4 hitters would have to be big time power threats.

Really, nothing would surprise me at this point. This is shaping up to be an extremely wild offseason. One GM described the GM meetings as a fantasy league where the GMs are thinking up anything they can possibly think up. If you like hot stove talk and a lot of trades, get ready for the Winter Meetings in a few weeks. They could be very fun. :smile:

This was already mentioned I think, but I would imagine that Pierre would be part of a package deal for Delgado. Just a guess.

I don't know how the outfield would end up being reshaped, but I'd welcome Pierre into the lineup. He is a KW/Ozzie type of player, hard-nosed and all business. 100% effort every play.

Still a lot of questions to be answered. In that scenario I'd guess Rowand would be out of the mix, with Anderson and Dye sharing RF/DH duties. I'm not a scout, so I don't know if Anderson would be a good fit in right. I'm sure someone can set me straight here.

I'm not necessarily saying to get rid of Rowand or Paulie either, just looking for a plausible scenario.

bafiarocks03
11-13-2005, 02:05 PM
I always like your posts....but come on. You can't let your obssesion with Willie cover the fact that he's a mediocre ballplayer.


thanks...but...HE IS NOT A MEDIOCRE PLAYER! Maybe if Tadahito was gone...yes..gone..Willie could start and then show all of you what he can do! And i do not have an obsession..:wink:

CLR01
11-13-2005, 02:57 PM
thanks...but...HE IS NOT A MEDIOCRE PLAYER! Maybe if Tadahito was gone...yes..gone..Willie could start and then show all of you what he can do! And i do not have an obsession..:wink:


WOW! Its bad enough some people think he could be a solid starter on any team but wanting him to replace Iguchi is just insane. Willie has had a chance to play and he has proven he can't hit or steal a base. Players who can score from first on a double and nothing else are easy to find. Willie is one of them.

SoxFan76
11-13-2005, 03:13 PM
WOW! Its bad enough some people think he could be a solid starter on any team but wanting him to replace Iguchi is just insane. Willie has had a chance to play and he has proven he can't hit or steal a base. Players who can score from first on a double and nothing else are easy to find. Willie is one of them.

I gotta say that the man's got a glove. He doesn't have much of an arm, but he can play defense. He's also got a pretty good eye. I believe he had a .340 OBP last year, which is respectable considering his ~.260 average.

But leave him on the bench please. haha, no more starting roles for Wee Willie.

beckett21
11-13-2005, 03:50 PM
...HE IS NOT A MEDIOCRE PLAYER!

I agree with that statement regarding Willie Harris.

My intrepretation of it may be a wee bit different than bafiarocks's though...:redneck

SOXintheBURGH
11-13-2005, 04:58 PM
Juan D'Vaughan? Is that like Dwayne Wayne? :?:

Anyway, Pierre would be interesting. Two bonafide speedsters at 1-2 would send pitchers into conniptions. Double steals all year long. Crazy stuff!

Don't forget former Wisconsin basketball phenom Dwayne Dwayne.

Juan Pierre sounds good and all.. but.. pass.

CluelessJoe1919
11-13-2005, 06:12 PM
By all means, the Sox should get Pierre if they can.
Rowand and Marte for him would be a good deal.
Rowand alone might work. Pierre or Podsednik could hit back-to-back in the Nos. 1 and 9 slots.
They'll run teams to death.
Who in their right mind would think that Pierre is the equivalent of Willie Harris?

Canadian_SoxFan
11-13-2005, 09:25 PM
WOW! Its bad enough some people think he could be a solid starter on any team but wanting him to replace Iguchi is just insane. Willie has had a chance to play and he has proven he can't hit or steal a base. Players who can score from first on a double and nothing else are easy to find. Willie is one of them. Willie will be a starter on another team next year. He plays great defense, and i'm sure one team will be interested in trading for him this offseason.

bafiarocks03
11-13-2005, 10:11 PM
Willie will be a starter on another team next year. He plays great defense, and i'm sure one team will be interested in trading for him this offseason.

he will not! he's gonna stay on our team! I don't care if he does stay on the bench! As long as he still is on the team! you guys really don't knwo what will happen to me if he leaves! it will be bad!

3 Sox On
11-14-2005, 12:08 AM
Look at the numbers Aaron is a Gamer. Just look at the years and the home runs or even better look at he errors and and the Assists.

jabrch
11-14-2005, 02:17 AM
he will not! he's gonna stay on our team! I don't care if he does stay on the bench! As long as he still is on the team! you guys really don't knwo what will happen to me if he leaves! it will be bad!

There will be another Willie someday. I have gotten over Alyssa Milano leaving my TV - you will some day get over Willie leaving the Sox.

pissonthecubs
11-14-2005, 07:02 PM
Reports on The Score this afternoon on my way home from work were saying that Juan Pierre is all but traded to the Flubs for a few minor leaguers and some cash.

santo=dorf
11-14-2005, 07:08 PM
ESPN 1000 was reporting it as well.

If the Cubs don't give up Pie (why would the Marlins want Patterson's worthless ass?) Aaron Rowand would be a could replacement in CF for them, as lon as they hand over Delgado.:cool:

gr8mexico
11-14-2005, 08:20 PM
ESPN Radio 1000 is reporting that the Cubs are close to acquiring Juan Pierre from the Marlins for a pair of minor leaguers.
No Corey Patterson? We hope the Cubs wouldn't give up Felix Pie for one year of Pierre. Parting with pitching prospects, say Rich Hill along with Sean Marshall or Renyel Pinto, would be preferable. Nov. 14 - 7:27 pm et That's a good start for them

It's Time
11-14-2005, 08:38 PM
ESPN 1000 was reporting it as well.

If the Cubs don't give up Pie (why would the Marlins want Patterson's worthless ass?) Aaron Rowand would be a could replacement in CF for them, as lon as they hand over Delgado.:cool:

The only reason the Marlins are trading with the Cubs is because that Hendry and Beinfest sp? have a good relationship. The report on ESPN 1000 is saying a "couple of minor league prospects.":?: