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View Full Version : Jose Guillen, Nationals


caulfield12
11-10-2005, 03:08 PM
I think we should take a shot at this guy as a RF and DH.

His 2006 salary is only $4,000,000...so he would cost less than Everett but he has much more upside.

Like Milton Bradley, another troubled player who would be the perfect fit for the 2 spot IN THEORY, Guillen is a talent that just needs to find the right place to call home for 3-4 seasons.

He can do everything but run really well...he is an average baserunner. Outside of Vladimir Guerrero, he has one of the best outfield arms in the game.

He provides insurance for a Dye injury and also allows the Sox to play Dye at 1B if Konerko is not signed.

I just do not think Brian Anderson is ready quite yet to play everyday or DH. If things dont work out in 2006, sure, bring up Anderson, Young, etc. But JR owes it to the fans to put the best possible team on the field to defend the championship.

The main issue I see is that he is not left-handed, which we need to replace Everett with to balance the line-up a little, besides Pods and AJ.

I worked for the Augusta GreenJackets in the South Atlantic League (Pirates) and was around Jose for the entire season, when we won the 1995 championship. You could see he had all the physical ability in the world, even back then. I would have no qualms about bringing him to the White Sox.

I think with Ozzie, Jose, El Duque, Uribe, etc., around him, he would not have the problems he has had with a couple of former managers, notably Scioscia.

Pods
? CF
Dye
Konerko
Guillen
Iguchi
AJ
Crede
Uribe

doublem23
11-10-2005, 03:11 PM
Dye is a Gold-Glove caliber RFer, no need to move him to first.

Deuce
11-10-2005, 03:13 PM
Dude, What's the Score?

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 03:21 PM
Dye is a Gold-Glove caliber RFer, no need to move him to first.

Past tense...yes, when he was playing for Macon in 1994, he could really run well. But he just does not have the same range he used to, not even close, especially since the broken leg. I would put him one or two steps of a healthy Magglio, still, but no longer in the Gold Glove conversation or vicinity.

I think it would be a really good way to preserve his health and his legs for another long season.

It all depends on Konerko.

nodiggity59
11-10-2005, 03:30 PM
I'd like to see Guillen take Everret's palce, sure. He's got personality problems, but his talent makes the risk worth it. People seem to forget that this team is not made of money, even with a payroll spike. This is exactly the kind of guy KW has been takinig fliers on. He shouldn't stop now.

Randar68
11-10-2005, 03:30 PM
I think we should take a shot at this guy as a RF and DH.


He's one of the biggest clubhouse malcontent/cancers in the game...

Sounds like a perfect fit!

Do you think about this crap before you put fingers to keys?

nodiggity59
11-10-2005, 03:38 PM
He's one of the biggest clubhouse malcontent/cancers in the game...

Sounds like a perfect fit!

Do you think about this crap before you put fingers to keys?

*Carl Everret - hated in Boston's clubhouse, attacked an umpire, alienated in the city
*AJP - hated by members of the Giant pitching staff (he claims only 1 guy, we'll probably never know for sure), completely alienated in the city
*Uribe- not coachable

Relative to his talent, Guillen is very under rated. I'd like to see if Ozzie could work his magic on this guy. Bradley too for that matter. This may be reactionary on my part, but I don't like all the big names being tossed around this site with their matching contracts. I'd hate to see the Sox loaded with an albatross and, as much as people hate to admit it, most contracts for $10mil plus turn out to be failures. I'd prefer risks of this nature.

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 03:40 PM
He's one of the biggest clubhouse malcontent/cancers in the game...

Sounds like a perfect fit!

Do you think about this crap before you put fingers to keys?

Have you ever met the guy? All you are doing is going off rumors, innuendo and hearsay from the Internet, the most trusted and reliable source outside of CNN.

What are your baseball credentials exactly?

I was around Guillen for two years when he was in the minors, when he was 17-19 years old and at his worst. I knew Jermaine when he was with Macon, and Andruw Jones and Vlad Guerrero as well.

Do the names AJ Pierzynski and Carl Everett ring a bell? Did you think they were model citizens....did you know them personally? What about Roberto Alomar? Did you hold the spitting incident against him for the rest of his life and refuse to cheer for him when he was on the White Sox?

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 03:44 PM
*Carl Everret - hated in Boston's clubhouse, attacked an umpire, alienated in the city
*AJP - hated by members of the Giant pitching staff (he claims only 1 guy, we'll probably never know for sure), completely alienated in the city
*Uribe- not coachable

Relative to his talent, Guillen is very under rated. I'd like to see if Ozzie could work his magic on this guy. Bradley too for that matter. This may be reactionary on my part, but I don't like all the big names being tossed around this site with their matching contracts. I'd hate to see the Sox loaded with an albatross and, as much as people hate to admit it, most contracts for $10mil plus turn out to be failures. I'd prefer risks of this nature.

Thats exactly the point....spread the risk around by taking 2-3 players that would add up collectivel to $15 mil and the odds are very good one will work out very well and the other one will live up to expectations. Its not unlike picking stocks. You take Enron (Konerko) at $15 million and you might ride him down to the bottom of the AL Central...well, at least you might be in front of KC.

Bradley is available on the cheap, he is coming off a knee injury and McCourt does not want to go to arbitration with him.

It is all up to KW and OG. If they think the reward outweighs the risk, then they will make the move...with Furcal, Pierre, Castillo, Delgado, etc.

KW did a thorough vetting process before he signed AJ, asking Sox players and MLB administrators their opinions, and he talked to him extensively 2-3 times.

Randar68
11-10-2005, 03:53 PM
Have you ever met the guy? All you are doing is going off rumors, innuendo and hearsay from the Internet, the most trusted and reliable source outside of CNN.

Teams have had their fill of him from about the time he stepped off the bus for them at this level. Mike Scioscia's account of him is all I need to know, thanks.

I've never met Terrell Owens, what does that have to do with the fact that he's a self-centered buffoon?

Credential don't mean anything if you have ZERO cognitive skills, as you've shown.

Ol' No. 2
11-10-2005, 03:56 PM
Teams have had their fill of him from about the time he stepped off the bus for them at this level. Mike Scioscia's account of him is all I need to know, thanks.

I've never met Terrell Owens, what does that have to do with the fact that he's a self-centered buffoon?

Credential don't mean anything if you have ZERO cognitive skills, as you've shown.Come on, Randar. Don't be so negative. Jose Guillen...Milton Bradley...Sammy Sosa's available, too, you know.:wink:

Chisox003
11-10-2005, 03:56 PM
Thats exactly the point....spread the risk around by taking 2-3 players that would add up collectivel to $15 mil and the odds are very good one will work out very well and the other one will live up to expectations. Its not unlike picking stocks. You take Enron (Konerko) at $15 million and you might ride him down to the bottom of the AL Central...well, at least you might be in front of KC.

Bradley is available on the cheap, he is coming off a knee injury and McCourt does not want to go to arbitration with him.

It is all up to KW and OG. If they think the reward outweighs the risk, then they will make the move...with Furcal, Pierre, Castillo, Delgado, etc.

KW did a thorough vetting process before he signed AJ, asking Sox players and MLB administrators their opinions, and he talked to him extensively 2-3 times.
Milton Bradley.....:o:

The thing with Guillen would be it would either work out really well (See: Pierzynski) or it would just be a complete disaster (See: too many).

Jose seemed to really do well under Frank Robinson, and I think Ozzie would be able to keep him in check.

That said, the Nats would be asking a whole lot for him, and he's a big risk....not worth taking.

Nay to Jose

Edit: I forgot...Where the hell would he play anyway? (Not a Hawk reference, a serious question. The answer here should not and will not contain anything with the words "Dye" "moving" or "1st base" ... Ideas?)

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 04:03 PM
Teams have had their fill of him from about the time he stepped off the bus for them at this level. Mike Scioscia's account of him is all I need to know, thanks.

I've never met Terrell Owens, what does that have to do with the fact that he's a self-centered buffoon?

Credential don't mean anything if you have ZERO cognitive skills, as you've shown.

Where are you on the record saying that the additions of Pierzynski, Everett twice (I am sure you were crying about giving up Rupe, Webster and Francisco) and Uribe (you sound like one of those Aaron Miles true believers) would be net positives for the White Sox???

Randar68
11-10-2005, 04:16 PM
Where are you on the record saying that the additions of Pierzynski, Everett twice (I am sure you were crying about giving up Rupe, Webster and Francisco) and Uribe (you sound like one of those Aaron Miles true believers) would be net positives for the White Sox???

AJ, yes, because I spent years watching him kill and annoy us in Minny.
Carl, reservations the first time, liked it the second time
Uribe, loved that deal. You take that chance every time on young CHEAP players with that much physical ability and limited track record.

Guillen has enough track record for me to say nay without blinking. Scioscia is a player's coach with a great understanding of the game. If Guillen is going to be a selfish ass and a team malcontent in that clubhouse, I want no part.

SOXPHILE
11-10-2005, 04:34 PM
Guillen is a raging ass-wipe who basically got himself kicked off the Angels, and then proceded to bad mouth Mike Scioscia, one of the true class acts in the game, (and a World Series winning manager). He can stay with that bad Nationals team and rot.

fquaye149
11-10-2005, 05:13 PM
Teams have had their fill of him from about the time he stepped off the bus for them at this level. Mike Scioscia's account of him is all I need to know, thanks.

I've never met Terrell Owens, what does that have to do with the fact that he's a self-centered buffoon?

Credential don't mean anything if you have ZERO cognitive skills, as you've shown.

Randar - this is pretty ridiculous. Jose Guillen doesn't get a long with Scioscia and all of a sudden he's a unanimous cancer? My friend is a Reds die hard and I never heard anything bad about Hose from him. Likewise, I haven't heard much bad about him with Washington.

Some ballplayers don't get along with certain coaches. I wouldn't take one person's word for it (especially a person who showed himself to be quite the whiner in the ALCS)

Optipessimism
11-10-2005, 05:54 PM
NO WAY! I used to think Guillen was just another player who got a bad rap, but after watching him play in person I agree with anyone who says he's a cancer. I went to a Brewers-Nats game last year and IIRC Capuano picked him off first. Jose was just standing off base with a big lead not even paying attention at all. Capuano throws over and picks him off. Jose proceeds to lay there for a bit, stand up, and walk directly across the infield in front of the pitcher slower than anyone I've ever seen. No jog, no trot, just a slow, slow, slow walk to delay the pitch, and to me that is a slap in the face of the game. If it were me running the Nats, he'd have been gone right there. If the Sox picked him up, I am 100% certain he'd pull some crap like that and KW and Ozzie would be flipping over tables. Guillen wouldn't last a month on the Sox.

GoSox2K3
11-10-2005, 09:35 PM
Do you think about this crap before you put fingers to keys?

wow - how about a little more respect for other people's opinions, even if you do disagree with them.:rolleyes:

nodiggity59
11-10-2005, 10:38 PM
NO WAY! I used to think Guillen was just another player who got a bad rap, but after watching him play in person I agree with anyone who says he's a cancer. I went to a Brewers-Nats game last year and IIRC Capuano picked him off first. Jose was just standing off base with a big lead not even paying attention at all. Capuano throws over and picks him off. Jose proceeds to lay there for a bit, stand up, and walk directly across the infield in front of the pitcher slower than anyone I've ever seen. No jog, no trot, just a slow, slow, slow walk to delay the pitch, and to me that is a slap in the face of the game. If it were me running the Nats, he'd have been gone right there. If the Sox picked him up, I am 100% certain he'd pull some crap like that and KW and Ozzie would be flipping over tables. Guillen wouldn't last a month on the Sox.

Carl Everret attacked an umpire. If that can be tolerated/molded into a team player, anything can. Not saying it will, but it can.

Tell me what's riskier: Guillen's commitment to team play or Thome's back not limiting him to 70 games, for instance?

santo=dorf
11-10-2005, 10:44 PM
Unless the Sox have a clone of Alex Escobar, there's no chance of getting him. Bowden was obsessed with him as the Reds' GM so he got him as soon as soon as he became the Nationals' GM.

caulfield12
11-11-2005, 12:05 PM
Unless the Sox have a clone of Alex Escobar, there's no chance of getting him. Bowden was obsessed with him as the Reds' GM so he got him as soon as soon as he became the Nationals' GM.

Ah....Alex Escobar, another of the infamous five tool players. Or Julio Ramirez, for that matter. We were quite fortunate enough to get Jerry Owens for Escobar. I think we only had him for a couple of weeks, I am pretty sure he never even put on a uniform.

Itīs like Michael Jordan and Roberto Clemente...every Latin RF has been compared to the guy, and Vladimir Guerrero is the only one to ever come close.

Sosa has the speed, defense and throwing arm....and then he roided his way into oblivion.

Randar68
11-11-2005, 12:55 PM
Carl Everret attacked an umpire. If that can be tolerated/molded into a team player, anything can. Not saying it will, but it can.

Tell me what's riskier: Guillen's commitment to team play or Thome's back not limiting him to 70 games, for instance?

What does attacking an umpire have to do with how a guy behaves towards teammates or coaches? Pretty liberal use of the word "attacking"... might want to go back and re-watch the actual altercation.

veeter
11-11-2005, 02:11 PM
Instead of looking who we could replace Carl with, why don't we just re-sign him?

santo=dorf
11-11-2005, 02:21 PM
Instead of looking who we could replace Carl with, why don't we just re-sign him?

I rather trade for him. :cool:

veeter
11-11-2005, 02:55 PM
I rather trade for him. :cool: You know, that actually COULD happen again.

DickAllen72
11-11-2005, 03:47 PM
Instead of looking who we could replace Carl with, why don't we just re-sign him?

I'd be happy with that. Carl was a great part of that positive clubhouse chemistry. He also was a big part of the 99 win season--without his clutch hitting in the first half and the last week of the season, we don't win the division. He even hit .300 in the playoffs.

While I'd like to see the Sox get someone to improve the DH position--Giles, Helton, Matsui, etc.--if that doesn't happen Carl would be most welcome back. He's a proven big league hitter who doesn't crap his pants under pressure.