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View Full Version : Guillen...new 2 hitter, Konerko captain?


caulfield12
11-10-2005, 09:06 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-051109ozziemanagerofyear,1,7428917.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Most interesting tidbits...

1. Konerko would be named captain if he came back to the team next year...I was waiting for this one...I suppose it would have seemed too manipulative to announce right after PK gave the WS ball to JR

2. Iguchi will be moved to the 6 or 7 spot....

3. Ozzie wants a younger, faster player to complement Pods at the 2 spot in the order...open the speculation game

4. Very non-committal about Thomasīfuture with the team.

This is interesting. It seems very likely that the Sox might have to get 2 or possibly three hitters to fill out the line-up. This might necessitate a Rowand trade, although we have those speed options in Anderson and Young in the minors...the problem is that neither is suited for the 2 hole.

Pods
Juan Pierre, Luis Castillo type slasher
FA-Trade
Konerko-FA-Trade
Dye
Iguchi
AJ...6th against RHP, with Iguchi 7th
Crede
Uribe

SouthsideFathead
11-10-2005, 09:13 AM
Luis Castillo

i think he would look great in the 2 hole for the sox...i envision a lot of 1st inning runs.

fquaye149
11-10-2005, 09:25 AM
I'm looking forward to seeing how Iguchi will perform in a more pure hitting role. All the talk about how Pods hampered his power stats will be put to test next year, it seems.

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 09:26 AM
i think he would look great in the 2 hole for the sox...i envision a lot of 1st inning runs.

Itīs really hard to come up with someone that wouldnīt destroy the budget, such as Furcal, or necessitate moving players around or trading someone, like Rowand. That might happen anyway.

Hereīs an initial list.

Pierre
Furcal
Crawford, Carl
Freel, Ryan...but Cincy loves this guy, no chance

Ichiro...donīt think we have the pieces to make a trade, but worth considering...would look something like McCarthy, Young-Anderson and probably a A pitcher like Gio, Liotta, Haigwood, etc.

Abreu, not for 2, but I really like this guy
Womack...not patient enough
C. Counsell
Vizquel...still think weīre fine without him, obviously, but a good fit for this spot

Nook Logan...Tigers will give CF job to Granderson probably
Joey Gathright...TB, worth a look, they have too many outfielders and Rocco is coming back

Randy Winn...long rumored to be a Sox target, a good fit but getting older
Damon...too expensive, paying more for name than performance...will decline

Damian Jackson...would be a great replacement for Blum-Harris
Billy Hall...Milwaukee
Luis Matos...Baltimore

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 09:30 AM
i think he would look great in the 2 hole for the sox...i envision a lot of 1st inning runs.

I am not sure...players in this mold usually tend to start breaking down between 30-32 because of all the wear and tear on their bodies...Rickey Henderson was the exception, of course.

I am thinking of players like Durham and Raines, and players who get moved down in the order donīt steal as much naturally, as Durham is now more looked at for doubles and homers...R. Alomar really lost it at the end, both his power and speed. Of course, Pierre and Castillo are younger. I think KW envisions someone like a Nook Logan that they could mentor and would have 3-5 ĻprimeĻseasons ahead of him.

Of course, the White Sox had the perfect candidate in Willie Harris, but he never mastered the art of bunting or stealing bases...and he strikes out too much for the 2nd spot in the order. But three years ago, this would have been the first name to come to mind.

Randar68
11-10-2005, 09:54 AM
3. Ozzie wants a younger, faster player to complement Pods at the 2 spot in the order...open the speculation game


People think I'm crazy for mentioning Rafael Furcal, but he's about perfect behind Pods. Not many other #2 hitters out there unless you're going to bat Giles 2 and Delgado 3...

I know Furcal isn't mentioned much as headed for the Sox, but Ozzie loves him from his days with Atlanta...

jabrch
11-10-2005, 09:58 AM
i think he would look great in the 2 hole for the sox...i envision a lot of 1st inning runs.

Can't play both Castillo and Iguchi, right?

jabrch
11-10-2005, 09:58 AM
People think I'm crazy for mentioning Rafael Furcal, but he's about perfect behind Pods. Not many other #2 hitters out there unless you're going to bat Giles 2 and Delgado 3...

I know Furcal isn't mentioned much as headed for the Sox, but Ozzie loves him from his days with Atlanta...

Aren't we set at SS and 3B already?

Whitesox4ever
11-10-2005, 10:05 AM
I would trade Rowand&Cotts to Tampa Bay for Carl Crawford and than sign BJ Ryan

rmusacch
11-10-2005, 10:07 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-051109ozziemanagerofyear,1,7428917.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Most interesting tidbits...

1. Konerko would be named captain if he came back to the team next year...I was waiting for this one...I suppose it would have seemed too manipulative to announce right after PK gave the WS ball to JR

2. Iguchi will be moved to the 6 or 7 spot....

3. Ozzie wants a younger, faster player to complement Pods at the 2 spot in the order...open the speculation game

4. Very non-committal about Thomasīfuture with the team.

This is interesting. It seems very likely that the Sox might have to get 2 or possibly three hitters to fill out the line-up. This might necessitate a Rowand trade, although we have those speed options in Anderson and Young in the minors...the problem is that neither is suited for the 2 hole.

Pods
Juan Pierre, Luis Castillo type slasher
FA-Trade
Konerko-FA-Trade
Dye
Iguchi
AJ...6th against RHP, with Iguchi 7th
Crede
Uribe

Where does Luis Castillo play if he comes in? he is a 2b also.

Whitesox4ever
11-10-2005, 10:12 AM
My opening day lineup
1 Pods LF
2 Crawford CF??
3 Dye RF
4 Konerko 1B??
5 Bernie Williams DH??
6 AJ C
7 Iguchi 2B
8 Crede 3B
9 Uribe SS
Buherle P

Unregistered
11-10-2005, 10:14 AM
My opening day lineup
1 Pods LF
2 Crawford CF??
3 Dye RF
4 Konerko 1B??
5 Bernie Williams DH??
6 AJ C
7 Iguchi 2B
8 Crede 3B
9 Uribe SS
Buherle P
Bernie Williams DH'ing? No thanks.

samram
11-10-2005, 10:16 AM
I would trade Rowand&Cotts to Tampa Bay for Carl Crawford and than sign BJ Ryan

You could send Rowand and Cotts there, but Carl Crawford would not be coming back. Think McCarthy and go from there if you want Crawford.

I do think, however, that if someone is added to bat second, it would be an outfielder. Uribe and Iguchi seem to be favorites of both Ozzie and KW and I don't think they're going anywhere. Pierre makes a lot of sense, although he was quite inconsistent in 2005 and was actually moved down to seventh in the order on several occasions.

Jjav829
11-10-2005, 10:25 AM
My opening day lineup
2 Crawford CF??

Not happening.

5 Bernie Williams DH??


:puking: :cower:

Randar68
11-10-2005, 10:25 AM
Aren't we set at SS and 3B already?

3B? Whatchoo talkin bout, Willis?

Uribe could easily be dealt if you acquire Furcal. That's an upgrade from a #9 hitter to a #2 hitter. Uribe is set to make 5 million a year in 2007, guys. It's not as big a cost difference as some think...

Whitesox4ever
11-10-2005, 10:27 AM
Aren't we set at SS and 3B already?

They can trade Crede than move Uribe over to 3B if we sign Furcal

Whitesox4ever
11-10-2005, 10:29 AM
Not happening.


:puking: :cower:

Bernie will be a better DH than Crazy Carl was this past season and he would come cheap

Tragg
11-10-2005, 10:34 AM
5 Bernie Williams DH??


Get him as a bench bat - we could use a major upgrade there.

Baby Fisk
11-10-2005, 10:36 AM
Bernie Williams DH'ing? No thanks.
Haven't we learned our lesson yet about picking up detritus from the Yankees? :cool:

Unregistered
11-10-2005, 10:42 AM
Bernie will be a better DH than Crazy Carl was this past season and he would come cheap
How do you figure?

Carl Everett, 2005: .251, 23 HR, 87 RBI - AGE 34 ($4 million)

Bernie Williams, 2005: .249, 12 HR, 64 RBI - AGE 37 ($12.3 million)

1951Campbell
11-10-2005, 10:43 AM
Bernie Williams DH'ing?

Oy vey.

salty99
11-10-2005, 10:46 AM
do not sign Bernie Williams. He needs to go retire. We should be focusing on developing our young players like Brian Anderson not over the hill has beens. And remeber that if Borchard does not stay on the team the entire 2006 season we lose him to free agency, not that anyone probably cares.

Randar68
11-10-2005, 10:51 AM
They can trade Crede than move Uribe over to 3B if we sign Furcal

No, you trade Uribe because he has very nice trade value and plays a premium position with top-notch defense. He also makes 8 million over the next 2 years.

Crede is top notch defensively, but he's much cheaper and a natural 3B with more upside... not to mention he's clutch.

TomBradley72
11-10-2005, 10:54 AM
3. Ozzie wants a younger, faster player to complement Pods at the 2 spot in the order...open the speculation game

4. Very non-committal about Thomasīfuture with the team.



This definitely puts the handwriting on the wall for Aaron Rowand or Frank Thomas...if you're looking for more speed you're looking at CF, SS or 2B....we're set with Iguchi and Uribe...Rowand doesn't bring alot of speed for a CF...and his contract expires after 2006.

Depending on the type of OF's available....you may want to move Pods to DH (rest his legs, limit exposure of his relatively weak arm in LF)...and then your new OF slots into either LF or CF...wherever you have a better fit.

Flight #24
11-10-2005, 11:00 AM
3. Ozzie wants a younger, faster player to complement Pods at the 2 spot in the order...open the speculation game

4. Very non-committal about Thomasīfuture with the team.



Reading deeper into the article to Ozzie's actual comments and not just the Cubune blurbs dripping with spin.....

3 - Ozzie also says they need to get some of their minor league talent in. Add that to the "Younger/faster" comment and you get.....Rowand or Dye are on the block, to be replaced with Anderson.

4 - Ozzie's actual comment: "The more important thing now is Frank's health, If Frank is healthy … right now we don't have a true designated hitter.". That becomes "non-commital about Frank's return"?

TomBradley72
11-10-2005, 11:01 AM
No, you trade Uribe because he has very nice trade value and plays a premium position with top-notch defense. He also makes 8 million over the next 2 years.

Crede is top notch defensively, but he's much cheaper and a natural 3B with more upside... not to mention he's clutch.

Furcal is a nice player...but not worth moving around IF's that gave you some of the best defense in the league at a reasonable price. Uribe is locked up through '08 at a very fair price for the production and defense he generates from the SS slot...

santo=dorf
11-10-2005, 11:17 AM
I really don't understand the appeal with Furcal, espsecially with the money he is expected to get.


With a career OBP of .348 (the .394 in his rookie year really helped him out here) he looks like another Scott Podsednik. Is that really worth $10+ million a year?:?:

Tekijawa
11-10-2005, 11:32 AM
They can trade Crede than move Uribe over to 3B if we sign Furcal

WHAT???? NO!

TomBradley72
11-10-2005, 11:33 AM
I really don't understand the appeal with Furcal, espsecially with the money he is expected to get.


With a career OBP of .348 (the .394 in his rookie year really helped him out here) he looks like another Scott Podsednik. Is that really worth $10+ million a year?:?:

We are basically set at 3B/SS/2B for the next two years...we need to save our big dollars on Konerko and Garland.

Ol' No. 2
11-10-2005, 11:35 AM
So to summarize:

1. He wants to give Konerko a completely ceremonial captaincy
2. He wants more speed so he can move Iguchi to an RBI position in the order.
3. He's uncertain about Frank Thomas' ankle.

Investigative journalism at its best.

mdep524
11-10-2005, 11:38 AM
Wow, my first impression after reading his quotes in the paper this morning were "Ozzie really threw us a curveball." I thought he would be set with batting Iguchi second. This does open a lot of doors for the Sox, who now appear to be in the market for a number 2, 3 AND 4 (Konerko) hitter.

Of all the options we've discussed, I like Juan Pierre the best. First if all, you all can forget the Carl Crawford thing- TAMPA IS NOT GOING TO TRADE HIM. And if they were, I am not ready to give up the boat load of talent they would want in return. Give it up, guys. Furcal would be nice, but expensive, and we're going to have to shell out big bucks for the 3 and 4 hitters already.

Pierre is attainable, relatively affordable, and a great, young, speedy top-of-the-order guy.

Podsednik LF
Pierre CF
Thome, etc./Thomas/Topic for another thread DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Iguchi 2B
Pierzynski C
Crede 3B
Uribe SS

Unfortunately, Rowand and Anderson are the odd men out in the scenario, I wonder if Florida would have interest in either.

soxfan26
11-10-2005, 11:50 AM
So to summarize:

1. He wants to give Konerko a completely ceremonial captaincy
...
Investigative journalism at its best.

The real question is how does Konerko's Dad feel about him being the team captian?

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 11:52 AM
Reading deeper into the article to Ozzie's actual comments and not just the Cubune blurbs dripping with spin.....

3 - Ozzie also says they need to get some of their minor league talent in. Add that to the "Younger/faster" comment and you get.....Rowand or Dye are on the block, to be replaced with Anderson.

4 - Ozzie's actual comment: "The more important thing now is Frank's health, If Frank is healthy … right now we don't have a true designated hitter.". That becomes "non-commital about Frank's return"?

Dye canīt go anywhere unless you already have Konerko signed...but it does not make a whole lot of sense, because he is our second best power hitter and a near bargain at $5-5.5 million, almost $10 million less than Maggs made his last year here for better production.

I think Rowand is much more replaceable than Dye in the line-up, and thereīs no question Dye stays with no Konerko...possibly hitting 3rd or 4th even.

I am not counting on the same production or health from Dye this season. I just think Anderson and Young are both possible replacements for Rowand, and there is a much better opportunity to upgrade offense there than replacing Dyeīs numbers internally.

Contreras, Garland, Crede, El Duque and Dye could all be dealt before the trade deadline if for some reason the Sox faltered in 2005. Those are some nice pieces to work with, in terms of future flexibility with the roster.

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 11:57 AM
Wow, my first impression after reading his quotes in the paper this morning were "Ozzie really threw us a curveball." I thought he would be set with batting Iguchi second. This does open a lot of doors for the Sox, who now appear to be in the market for a number 2, 3 AND 4 (Konerko) hitter.

Of all the options we've discussed, I like Juan Pierre the best. First if all, you all can forget the Carl Crawford thing- TAMPA IS NOT GOING TO TRADE HIM. And if they were, I am not ready to give up the boat load of talent they would want in return. Give it up, guys. Furcal would be nice, but expensive, and we're going to have to shell out big bucks for the 3 and 4 hitters already.

Pierre is attainable, relatively affordable, and a great, young, speedy top-of-the-order guy.

Podsednik LF
Pierre CF
Thome, etc./Thomas/Topic for another thread DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Iguchi 2B
Pierzynski C
Crede 3B
Uribe SS

Unfortunately, Rowand and Anderson are the odd men out in the scenario, I wonder if Florida would have interest in either.

Not only Anderson, but Chris Young. Anderson can play RF or LF too.

I could imagine, though not embrace, a four man rotation in the OF with the player not in the field that day DHing.

Letīs say you had Pierce, Pods, Dye and Giles. A very strong rotation. Maybe a top 2-3 outfield in all of the majors. Then you would be able rotate Anderson and Young in 2007 to replace Dye more affordably...both are nice options to have, one might have to be dealt though.

Of course, you can easily imagine Pods-Young-Dye-Anderson as a rotation, although Pierce and Giles would be much more formidable.

That is definitely workable, as long as you keep Konerko. If PK goes, then everything is in play, with the possibility of Dye at 1B.

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 12:02 PM
People think I'm crazy for mentioning Rafael Furcal, but he's about perfect behind Pods. Not many other #2 hitters out there unless you're going to bat Giles 2 and Delgado 3...

I know Furcal isn't mentioned much as headed for the Sox, but Ozzie loves him from his days with Atlanta...

I like an outfield rotation of Pods-Pierre-Giles and Dye the best, with Konerko coming back at no more than $13.5-14.0 million per season.

If you can sign Furcal for less than $8.75 million, MAYBE. But I really like Uribe and think he will do nothing but improve. It seems like he should be 30, but he is still a very young player, like Garland.

If you have to pay him $10 million or more, then adios.

Supposedly, Matsuiīs NY contract will average around $12 million per season and might be concluded today or tomorrow. If we lost Konerko, I think the priority would have to go to the middle of the order OVER adding speed and pushing Iguchi back in the line-up to an RBI slot.

eastchicagosoxfan
11-10-2005, 12:06 PM
Wow, my first impression after reading his quotes in the paper this morning were "Ozzie really threw us a curveball." I thought he would be set with batting Iguchi second. This does open a lot of doors for the Sox, who now appear to be in the market for a number 2, 3 AND 4 (Konerko) hitter.

Of all the options we've discussed, I like Juan Pierre the best. First if all, you all can forget the Carl Crawford thing- TAMPA IS NOT GOING TO TRADE HIM. And if they were, I am not ready to give up the boat load of talent they would want in return. Give it up, guys. Furcal would be nice, but expensive, and we're going to have to shell out big bucks for the 3 and 4 hitters already.

Pierre is attainable, relatively affordable, and a great, young, speedy top-of-the-order guy.

Podsednik LF
Pierre CF
Thome, etc./Thomas/Topic for another thread DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
Iguchi 2B
Pierzynski C
Crede 3B
Uribe SS

Unfortunately, Rowand and Anderson are the odd men out in the scenario, I wonder if Florida would have interest in either.
I though the same thing. Gooch was great in the two hole. However, if Ozzie wants to make a change, my questions would be: What is needed from the two spot, who's been successful there, where does he play, and is he available? I have to believe that the Sox are still looking to get that first run across early, which means getting Pods on, getting him over, plating him, and not always with a hit. Whoever is looked at has to be a good bunter, and have really good bat control, to hit behind the runner. I find this confusing, because it signals that the Sox are looking at getting two runs off the bat, as oppossed to one. I like the idea, who doesn't, but there are very few guys out there that can do it. I don't know the answer, but does Anderson possess the qualities Ozzie is looking for as a two hitter?

nccwsfan
11-10-2005, 12:08 PM
We are basically set at 3B/SS/2B for the next two years...we need to save our big dollars on Konerko and Garland.

And to lock up others for future years (Buehrle, Garcia, AJ)....

depy48
11-10-2005, 12:10 PM
5 Bernie Williams DH??


I just threw up a little bit in my mouth....

voodoochile
11-10-2005, 12:11 PM
The real question is how does Konerko's Dad feel about him being the team captian?

He wants the letter on the jersey to be capitalized...

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 12:12 PM
I though the same thing. Gooch was great in the two hole. However, if Ozzie wants to make a change, my questions would be: What is needed from the two spot, who's been successful there, where does he play, and is he available? I have to believe that the Sox are still looking to get that first run across early, which means getting Pods on, getting him over, plating him, and not always with a hit. Whoever is looked at has to be a good bunter, and have really good bat control, to hit behind the runner. I find this confusing, because it signals that the Sox are looking at getting two runs off the bat, as oppossed to one. I like the idea, who doesn't, but there are very few guys out there that can do it. I don't know the answer, but does Anderson possess the qualities Ozzie is looking for as a two hitter?

Thatīs too much pressure for a rookie, and Brian strikes out way too much for this role...at least this point in his career.

After Iguchi, we really do not have anyone. If I had to pick a player off the current roster, it MIGHT be AJ because he makes contact usually, but I would never use him 2nd against a LHP...also, we simply do not have many great bunters on this team. Willie Harris never evolved into that type of player, unfortunately.

mdep524
11-10-2005, 12:12 PM
I don't know the answer, but does Anderson possess the qualities Ozzie is looking for as a two hitter? I don't think so. Anderson seems to project as more of a middle-of-the-order guy.

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 12:15 PM
And to lock up others for future years (Buehrle, Garcia, AJ)....

I am wondering why almost nobody mentions Contreras for after 2006? Do we think the last two months this season were a fluke? That El Duque leaving the team might jinx him? That we simply wonīt be able to afford to pay him $10 plus million? Or is it because of his presumed age...I donīt know, call me crazy, but I would at least think of keeping Contreras long-term before signing Garland long term. Contreras is the only starter that can simply shut down other teams, and do it repeatedly. At any rate, itīs an interesting decision. There is no doubt he became the ace of this staff.

The Dude
11-10-2005, 12:17 PM
1. Konerko would be named captain if he came back to the team next year...I was waiting for this one...I suppose it would have seemed too manipulative to announce right after PK gave the WS ball to JR


I've been echoing this from the start and it still seems like a no brainer. I hope if he resigns with us that he accepts and puts that big C on his jersey. I will then be purchasing an authentic PK jersey with the C and all!:cool:

The other points, I am also intrigued about the idea of putting Gooch in a position to show off his bat more than in the #2 hole. However, I kind of dont want to mess with success because we obviously won a WS with him batting second so why fix something that isnt broken? Why not figure out a way to add a true #3 hitter?

eastchicagosoxfan
11-10-2005, 12:20 PM
I don't think so. Anderson seems to project as more of a middle-of-the-order guy.
I didn't think Anderson could be the guy, but I wasn't sure. I think the infield, except for first is set. The first baseman isn't typically a number two guy. Nor is the DH, but that's certainly open for debate, as long as the position produces runs. I believe the Sox are looking for a center fielder, as left and right are set, and Anderson is certain to get every opportunity to win the fourth spot. The Sox have pitching, so every center fielder could be available. Who are they?

mdep524
11-10-2005, 12:26 PM
I've been echoing this from the start and it still seems like a no brainer. I hope if he resigns with us that he accepts and puts that big C on his jersey. I will then be purchasing an authentic PK jersey with the C and all!:cool:

The other points, I am also intrigued about the idea of putting Gooch in a position to show off his bat more than in the #2 hole. However, I kind of dont want to mess with success because we obviously won a WS with him batting second so why fix something that isnt broken? Why not figure out a way to add a true #3 hitter? Bah. Personally, I think this is so stupid. "Captain." What does that mean? It seems pretentious to me, like something the Yankees and Red Sox do. The captain of the Sox is Ozzie Guillen, the manager- from there it is a full team effort.

The Dude
11-10-2005, 12:31 PM
Bah. Personally, I think this is so stupid. "Captain." What does that mean? It seems pretentious to me, like something the Yankees and Red Sox do. The captain of the Sox is Ozzie Guillen, the manager- from there it is a full team effort.

For some reason when I think of PK as captain, I tend to think of Mike Sweeney. I think its a role that fits them both perfectly. Easy going guys who are quiet leaders of their teams. I personally dont care either way if he accepts or not. I honestly think he is a bit too humble to accept it and would respectfully pass if he resigns.

TomBradley72
11-10-2005, 12:43 PM
I donīt know, call me crazy, but I would at least think of keeping Contreras long-term before signing Garland long term. Contreras is the only starter that can simply shut down other teams, and do it repeatedly. At any rate, itīs an interesting decision. There is no doubt he became the ace of this staff.

Depending on how he does next year (I do not think this year was a fluke) I would be interested in resigning Jose for another 2 years or so. But Garland is 26 y.o., has been injury free, entering his prime....I don't think this year was a fluke at all for him...I think this was his "break through" year...because he is so much younger...I would make him a higher priority for a long term contract than Jose C.

DaleJRFan
11-10-2005, 01:57 PM
I have a great idea. Let's trade all of the players that contributed to the World Series title with their defense and timely hitting and replace them with guys we like instead.

Send Cotts, Uribe and Rowand to Phillie for Thome
Send McCarthy, Crede and a prospect to Baltimore for Melvin Mora
Send Podsednik and Vizcaino back to Milwaukee for Carlos Lee
Send Garcia and Ryan Sweeney to Arizona for Chad Tracy

Sign the following free agents
Rafael Furcal
AJ Burnett
BJ Ryan
Jeff Weaver

That leaves us an opening day lineup of:
Furcal - SS
Iguchi - 2B
Thome - DH
Lee - LF
Tracy - 1B
Dye - RF
Mora - 3B
AJ - C
Anderson - CF

Rotation: Buerhle, Garland, Burnett, Contreras, Weaver
Bullpen: Marte, Ryan, Hermanson, Politte, Jenks

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000C7GHG.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

UGH, please make it stop... please.

Lip Man 1
11-10-2005, 02:00 PM
I think the Sox need more speed badly in the lineup and second Ozzie's idea to get another burner for the #2 hole. (Think Julio Cruz followed by Rudy Law).

If you are going to play 'small-ball' or 'smart-ball' you need to have more then one or two guys who can steal a base. Everyone saw what happened when Podsednik got hurt.

Lip

antitwins13
11-10-2005, 02:03 PM
Didn't we just win a World Series with Gooch at the two hole? It sounds like a lot of unnecessary tinkering to me. :jerry

nodiggity59
11-10-2005, 02:13 PM
Didn't we just win a World Series with Gooch at the two hole? It sounds like a lot of unnecessary tinkering to me. :jerry

Agreed. I think the ideal would be a #3 hitter w/ speed, kinda like what Beltran was supposed to be or what Rowand was in 04. I don't want to go messing with the Pods/Gooch combo. Then again, I'm not convinced we need more speed....

Randar68
11-10-2005, 02:37 PM
I think the Sox need more speed badly in the lineup and second Ozzie's idea to get another burner for the #2 hole. (Think Julio Cruz followed by Rudy Law).

If you are going to play 'small-ball' or 'smart-ball' you need to have more then one or two guys who can steal a base. Everyone saw what happened when Podsednik got hurt.

Furcal is just about the only guy out there who fits this plan and MIGHT be available in FA or trade.

kitekrazy
11-10-2005, 02:38 PM
We are basically set at 3B/SS/2B for the next two years...we need to save our big dollars on Konerko and Garland.

I agree. Pay the talent you already have that got you there. How many potential base hits did not happen because of Crede and Uribe?

But I still see hints of Sox fans still believing in "station to station" baseball.

RockyMtnSoxFan
11-10-2005, 02:54 PM
I agree with Lip about the need for speed. I don't think Furcal is the answer. Pierre maybe, but he struggled this year. I think Anderson could be a good fit, though I don't know how good he is at bunting, hit and run, etc. Gooch was good in the two-spot, but he did strikeout a lot. I think that if you can't get an CF who makes a better fit than Iguchi at #2, don't mess with it. I don't understand the desire to get rid of Uribe, Crede, etc. when those guys were so important to the success of the pitching staff. It's not just about the hits they take away, it's also the confidence they give the pitchers.

Randar68
11-10-2005, 02:55 PM
I agree. Pay the talent you already have that got you there. How many potential base hits did not happen because of Crede and Uribe?

But I still see hints of Sox fans still believing in "station to station" baseball.

Uribe and Rowand combine to make over 10 million in 2007. Why not replace them With Furcal (#2 hitter) and Brian Anderson?

That's an equivalent defensive trade-off with better offensive output and potential to be a big upgrade down the road...

Randar68
11-10-2005, 02:57 PM
I agree with Lip about the need for speed. I don't think Furcal is the answer. Pierre maybe, but he struggled this year. I think Anderson could be a good fit, though I don't know how good he is at bunting, hit and run, etc. Gooch was good in the two-spot, but he did strikeout a lot. I think that if you can't get an CF who makes a better fit than Iguchi at #2, don't mess with it. I don't understand the desire to get rid of Uribe, Crede, etc. when those guys were so important to the success of the pitching staff. It's not just about the hits they take away, it's also the confidence they give the pitchers.

Furcal is "at-worst" an even trade for Uribe defensively and gives you that guy to hit behind Pods and steal 40-50 bases.

Anderson IS NOT a #2 hitter. Period. If that is the option you have by moving Iguchi to 5th or 6th, forget it and leave Iguchi at #2 with Anderson at #6...

MadetoOrta
11-10-2005, 03:01 PM
Randar,

Suppose the Sox sign Furcal, what would you do with Uribe? Do the marlins need a SS?

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 03:01 PM
Furcal is "at-worst" an even trade for Uribe defensively and gives you that guy to hit behind Pods and steal 40-50 bases.

Anderson IS NOT a #2 hitter. Period. If that is the option you have by moving Iguchi to 5th or 6th, forget it and leave Iguchi at #2 with Anderson at #6...

If Crede is not yet ready to hit 6th in this order, he never will be.

I prefer

Crede
AJ
Anderson
Uribe

That way, you still have some decent speed at the bottom of the order and you donīt slow the entire lineup down, as when we had Johnson and Clayton killing almost every opportunity to turn the lineup over. You could even flip-flop Anderson and Uribe if you wanted.

Randar68
11-10-2005, 03:03 PM
Randar,

Suppose the Sox sign Furcal, what would you do with Uribe? Do the marlins need a SS?

There is ALWAYS a good market for a SS with Uribe's defense and a .260-15-75 bat, especially if he makes less than 7 million a year.

If the Sox sign Furcal, the Cubs, among quite a few others, would be interested in Uribe given the other options out there.

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 03:04 PM
Randar,

Suppose the Sox sign Furcal, what would you do with Uribe? Do the marlins need a SS?

Alex Gonzalez, not sure if heīs a FA or not...they can also use Damion Easley in the Ozuna role, where heīs very valuable and gives some power off the bench

Randar68
11-10-2005, 03:05 PM
If Crede is not yet ready to hit 6th in this order, he never will be.

I prefer

Crede
AJ
Anderson
Uribe

That way, you still have some decent speed at the bottom of the order and you donīt slow the entire lineup down, as when we had Johnson and Clayton killing almost every opportunity to turn the lineup over. You could even flip-flop Anderson and Uribe if you wanted.

Who give a rat's ass? You're trading a #9 hitter for a legit top-of-the-order bat! You're concerned about what that does to our bottom of the order? You move Iguchi to #6, AJ to 7, Crede to 8, and Anderson to #9. Anderson has as much speed as Uribe and could likely replicate Uribe's offensive production...

Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

Randar68
11-10-2005, 03:06 PM
Alex Gonzalez, not sure if heīs a FA or not...they can also use Damion Easley in the Ozuna role, where heīs very valuable and gives some power off the bench

Gonzalez is a FA. Uribe could be used in a Delgado or other deal if you sign Furcal.

mdep524
11-10-2005, 03:11 PM
Furcal is just about the only guy out there who fits this plan and MIGHT be available in FA or trade. Something wrong with Juan Pierre?

Randar68
11-10-2005, 03:12 PM
Something wrong with Juan Pierre?

We have more OF prospects than we know what to do with. How does that help us long-term? Getting that production out of a SS is a far superior option. Pierre is also older and not a FA.

Not to mention Pierre is a defensive downgrade from either Rowand or Anderson.

nccwsfan
11-10-2005, 03:26 PM
I have a great idea. Let's trade all of the players that contributed to the World Series title with their defense and timely hitting and replace them with guys we like instead.

Send Cotts, Uribe and Rowand to Phillie for Thome
Send McCarthy, Crede and a prospect to Baltimore for Melvin Mora
Send Podsednik and Vizcaino back to Milwaukee for Carlos Lee
Send Garcia and Ryan Sweeney to Arizona for Chad Tracy

Sign the following free agents
Rafael Furcal
AJ Burnett
BJ Ryan
Jeff Weaver

That leaves us an opening day lineup of:
Furcal - SS
Iguchi - 2B
Thome - DH
Lee - LF
Tracy - 1B
Dye - RF
Mora - 3B
AJ - C
Anderson - CF

Rotation: Buerhle, Garland, Burnett, Contreras, Weaver
Bullpen: Marte, Ryan, Hermanson, Politte, Jenks


UGH, please make it stop... please.


Thank you! I thought I was the only one out there. Let's see- we have a lineup that won 99 games in the regular season, followed by an 11-1 run in the playoffs where every player contributed and the true 'team' effort came out. Aside from beefing up our #3 spot, let's try to re-sign PK and get that left handed bat.

Instead it's trade for a 35 year old guy who's starting to wear down from injuries, let's take Gooch out of the #2 hole because all he did last year was effectively hit in whatever situation was brought in front of him, let's trade Crede and Uribe despite the fact that they're absolute bargains on the team, and for that matter let's 'trade' for a Free Agent.

We need to fill holes, but we don't need to blow up the team. If Pauly doesn't resign that gives KW flexibility to make some moves, but otherwise this team should be more or less intact come April 2006......

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 03:55 PM
Who give a rat's ass? You're trading a #9 hitter for a legit top-of-the-order bat! You're concerned about what that does to our bottom of the order? You move Iguchi to #6, AJ to 7, Crede to 8, and Anderson to #9. Anderson has as much speed as Uribe and could likely replicate Uribe's offensive production...

Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

Because you do not have the sense to know that Brian Anderson will not hit number 6 in the White Sox order for at least two seasons.

mdep524
11-10-2005, 03:57 PM
We have more OF prospects than we know what to do with. How does that help us long-term? Getting that production out of a SS is a far superior option. Pierre is also older and not a FA.

Not to mention Pierre is a defensive downgrade from either Rowand or Anderson. I agree that Pierre is a defensive downgrade from Rowand/Anderson, and I'm not totally sold we need to move Iguchi out of the number 2 spot. But if Ozzie really wants to, there's not much quality after Furcal and Pierre.

I know you're a huge fan of Furcal, but do you really see the Sox sticking their necks in with the Cubs, Mets and Yankees to get this guy for big money? I don't see it happening. Still, he counts as one possibility.

Pierre is coming off a down season (though he did seem to get it together better in the second half) so that might make him a bargain (Keith Foulke) or a bust (Billy Koch) in '06. He's only 28 years old, so calling him "older" is irrelevant. He has the skills- speed, bunting, patience- that Ozzie is looking for and Ozzie is familiar with him. His contract is very reasonable, especially compared to the big bucks Furcal will command.

Looking long term, in a year or two when Jerry Owens is ready one of Podsednik or Pierre will be expendable and will make excellent trade bait, as Rowand and Anderson do now.

Guys like Figgins, Freel and Crawford would be great, but they're not available. So you have Furcal and Pierre and not much else. I'm not disagreeing that Furcal is an option, but I wouldn't count out Pierre so quickly.

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 04:15 PM
ILooking long term, in a year or two when Jerry Owens is ready one of Podsednik or Pierre will be expendable and will make excellent trade bait, as Rowand and Anderson do now.

Guys like Figgins, Freel and Crawford would be great, but they're not available. So you have Furcal and Pierre and not much else. I'm not disagreeing that Furcal is an option, but I wouldn't count out Pierre so quickly.

Owens is going to be 25 when the 2006 season begins.

I think you are making a huge leap to replace Pods with him, as he has only one really good minor league season under his belt. His stolen base percentage is so-so at best...if he keeps progressing, sure, but that is certainly not a given. His game needs further refinement...and to think he could come in right away in the leadoff spot, well, we shall see.

While he is more likely to have am impact than say, Borchard, there are no assurances.

We know Anderson is likely to play LF or RF, and we also have to find a place for Ryan Sweeney to play in the future, not to mention Chris Young.

Frater Perdurabo
11-10-2005, 04:23 PM
We know Anderson is likely to play LF or RF, and we also have to find a place for Ryan Sweeney to play in the future, not to mention Chris Young.

2006: Helton @ 1B, Pods in LF, Anderson in CF, Dye in RF, Frank @ DH

2007: Helton @ 1B, Pods in LF, Young in CF, Anderson in RF, Frank @ DH

2008: Sweeney @ 1B, Pods/Owens in LF, Young in CF, Anderson in RF, Helton @ DH, Frank's number retired and statue unveiled.

nodiggity59
11-10-2005, 04:47 PM
2006: Helton @ 1B, Pods in LF, Anderson in CF, Dye in RF, Frank @ DH

2007: Helton @ 1B, Pods in LF, Young in CF, Anderson in RF, Frank @ DH

2008: Sweeney @ 1B, Pods/Owens in LF, Young in CF, Anderson in RF, Helton @ DH, Frank's number retired and statue unveiled.

This is not a direct critique of your post, but does anyone besides me have any doubt about our prospects? I admit most sources credit Anderson/Young/Sweeny/Owens for being good, even excellent, prospects. Still, they're just PROSPECTS. Just as a rule I might assume two of those four won't even be starter quality guys. If they all end up being starter worthy I'll be as ecstatic as anyone, but I'll definitely be surprised. It seems a little naive to plug our farm system into the starting lineup for years to come.

Randar68
11-10-2005, 04:47 PM
We know Anderson is likely to play LF or RF, and we also have to find a place for Ryan Sweeney to play in the future, not to mention Chris Young.

Who in the hell is going to play CF when Anderson is in RF or LF if it isn't Chris Young?

Think! You have a brain, use it.

Randar68
11-10-2005, 04:49 PM
If they all end up being starter worthy I'll be as ecstatic as anyone, but I'll definitely be surprised. It seems a little naive to plug our farm system into the starting lineup for years to come.

You have 4 VERY good young prospects in the OF, 2 of which are natural CF'ers. I think it's fair to expect 2 of those 4 to be good regulars.

caulfield12
11-10-2005, 04:57 PM
Who in the hell is going to play CF when Anderson is in RF or LF if it isn't Chris Young?

Think! You have a brain, use it.

The point, if you were paying attention, is that it JUST might be a better option for us to have Young playing rather than Owens in the starting outfield. We do not know for sure Sweeney will end up at first base because of his power drop in 2005...

nodiggity59
11-10-2005, 05:04 PM
You have 4 VERY good young prospects in the OF, 2 of which are natural CF'ers. I think it's fair to expect 2 of those 4 to be good regulars.

I'd definitely agree with 2. I'm excited about how it looks and I'd be perfectly content w/ 2 of those guys panning out.

DickAllen72
11-10-2005, 05:08 PM
People think I'm crazy for mentioning Rafael Furcal, but he's about perfect behind Pods. Not many other #2 hitters out there unless you're going to bat Giles 2 and Delgado 3...

I know Furcal isn't mentioned much as headed for the Sox, but Ozzie loves him from his days with Atlanta...

Well, I don't think you're crazy.

DickAllen72
11-10-2005, 05:19 PM
Uribe and Rowand combine to make over 10 million in 2007. Why not replace them With Furcal (#2 hitter) and Brian Anderson?

That's an equivalent defensive trade-off with better offensive output and potential to be a big upgrade down the road...

I would not give up Uribe. I'd like to see the Sox sign Furcal for SS, move Uribe back to 2B and DH Iguchi. This adds speed, allows Iguchi to move down in the order, maintains great defense, and gives much needed depth in case of injury to Crede, Uribe or Podsednik.

Tragg
11-10-2005, 05:34 PM
Need a better hitter at DH than Iguchi

How the hell did Uribe get a $5 mill contract? I guess it's sort of a lineage with clayton and valentin getting $5 mill; he deserves it a lot more than those 2 did.

DickAllen72
11-10-2005, 05:41 PM
Need a better hitter at DH than Iguchi

I'd like a better hitter than Iguchi at DH as well.

But Ozzie seems intent at batting Iguchi down in the order. He also wants to add more speed. He does not want to sacrifice defense or pitching to do this.
The most likely way I can see that KW can accomplish these goals is by signing Furcal.

I'd rather see the Sox keep everyone and sign Matsui or Giles to DH, and leave Iguchi in the #2 spot. I don't know if that's what Ozzie & KW are thinking. Only time will tell.

Ol' No. 2
11-10-2005, 05:47 PM
I'd like a better hitter than Iguchi at DH as well.

But Ozzie seems intent at batting Iguchi down in the order. He also wants to add more speed. He does not want to sacrifice defense or pitching to do this.
The most likely way I can see that KW can accomplish these goals is by signing Furcal.

I'd rather see the Sox keep everyone and sign Matsui or Giles to DH, and leave Iguchi in the #2 spot. I don't know if that's what Ozzie & KW are thinking. Only time will tell.As much as I like Matsui and Giles, I don't think you can afford to spend $10M+ on a DH unless you've got a Yankees budget.

DickAllen72
11-10-2005, 06:08 PM
As much as I like Matsui and Giles, I don't think you can afford to spend $10M+ on a DH unless you've got a Yankees budget.

That may be true, although wasn't that about what they were paying Frank a few years ago?

Anyway, I don't think Matsui or Giles would be strictly a DH. I think either one would be used as a primary DH but play quite a bit in the outfield allowing the outfielders to stay fresh with either a day off or by rotating at DH.

I definitely agree with you that I would not expect them to pay a "DH only" type that kind of money.

One other way for the Sox to go is to fill the DH slot with Gload/Anderson. They both can play on a L/R platoon basis, playing DH but also Gload allowing PK to DH at times and Anderson allowing Dye to DH at times. As long as the Sox can lock up their starting pitchers and McCarthy lives up to his potential this should be good enough and it gives KW the money to spend on the pitching staff.

Again, just throwing out the many possibilities.

voodoochile
11-10-2005, 06:19 PM
That may be true, although wasn't that about what they were paying Frank a few years ago?

Yes, and if they can land a guy who can put up numbers like Frank did in his prime, it would be okay to do so again...:D:

Ol' No. 2
11-10-2005, 06:32 PM
Yes, and if they can land a guy who can put up numbers like Frank did in his prime, it would be okay to do so again...:D:Beat me to it.:redneck

If you look around the league, most teams don't have a full-time DH. There were only 4 players who had 400+ AB as a DH last year. Most teams rotate guys in and out. So maybe we should stop thinking about a full-time DH like we've become used to and start thinking in terms of an extra OF or 1B. With the uncertainty surrounding Frank Thomas, I don't think they can plan on another DH-only.

santo=dorf
11-10-2005, 09:42 PM
Yes, and if they can land a guy who can put up numbers like Frank did in his prime, it would be okay to do so again...:D:

How about Brian Giles?

Granted his HR totals aren't as high as Frank's, but take a look at his road numbers from 2005:
.333/.467/.545/1.008 with 70 BB's/24 K's :o:

Lip Man 1
11-10-2005, 09:46 PM
For what its worth Ken Rosenthal posted earlier today the Yankees have a serious yen to sign Furcal and shift him to center field next season.

Lip

A. Cavatica
11-10-2005, 10:07 PM
It's just Ozzie shooting off his mouth again without thinking.

Expect Iguchi at second base and battting second next year, Uribe at short and batting ninth.

Ol' No. 2
11-10-2005, 10:19 PM
For what its worth Ken Rosenthal posted earlier today the Yankees have a serious yen to sign Furcal and shift him to center field next season.

LipIs it possible that even Brian Cashman is that stupid?

TheOldRoman
11-10-2005, 11:15 PM
Is it possible that even Brian Cashman is that stupid?
I believe so.
That would make Jeter, their starter and "captain", the third best SS on the team. What a joke. Oh wait, Jeter won a couple gold gloves.

Lip Man 1
11-10-2005, 11:16 PM
Here's the link. Apparently Furcal thinks he can do it.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5070298

Lip

TheOldRoman
11-10-2005, 11:38 PM
Who in the hell is going to play CF when Anderson is in RF or LF if it isn't Chris Young?

Think! You have a brain, use it.
OK, Randar, I normally respect what you have to say, even if I don't alway agree with you. That being said, you dont have to be a ****ing prick. You are insulting people in this thread for no apparent reason. It isnt like he said "lets trade Willie and Young for Pujols, Gio for Todd Helton and $40mil, and Anderson for Johan Santana". You dont have to tread people like garbage because you think you are more knowledgeable than them.

As for Furcal, I have seen him play, and I have seen his numbers, but I am not sure he will be that much of an upgrade over Uribe. Furcal has a lot of hype behind him this offseason, and he will make at least $9mil a season with this contract. You are saying "Uribe will make $5mil in 07" as if we need to dump him because it is so much money, but Furcal will make almost double that. Yes, he plays great defense, but so does Uribe. He is a career .284 hitter with a less than whopping .348 OBP. He is a good leadoff hitter, but as I said before, there are no garauntees he will be a good 2 hitter. He has more speed than Uribe, but Uribe has more power. You are treating Furcal as Roberto Alomar circa 1993. I think you are vastly overrating him. For that $5 million Uribe will make in 07, I would gladly take Furcal. For twice that, I want no part of him. I think the extra $3-5 million a year could get more improvement out of another position than Furcal over Uribe.

MadetoOrta
11-10-2005, 11:51 PM
Gonzalez is a FA. Uribe could be used in a Delgado or other deal if you sign Furcal.

I'll take Furcal and Delgado over Uribe and Konerko. That's just my opinion.

Banix12
11-11-2005, 12:08 AM
I'm not going to get into a whole logistical thing about the middle infield, I think that has been covered enough, but if the sox are looking for a #2 hitter how about attempting to trade with Tampa for Julio Lugo?

Just throwing a name out there because I don't remember seeing it in the thread. People here are talking about spending the 10 million a year to get Furcal, if we are talking about another middle infielder and #2 hitter I'd probably feel better just trying to trade for Lugo.

Certainly Tampa is more likely to move an OF since they are now committed to Baldelli for six more years and have a glut of OF.

EDIT: Just an addition here, I'm pretty happy with the sox infield as is and don't really want Furcal or Lugo. Just throwing out names.

KRS1
11-11-2005, 12:26 AM
I'm not going to get into a whole logistical thing about the middle infield, I think that has been covered enough, but if the sox are looking for a #2 hitter how about attempting to trade with Tampa for Julio Lugo?

Just throwing a name out there because I don't remember seeing it in the thread. People here are talking about spending the 10 million a year to get Furcal, if we are talking about another middle infielder and #2 hitter I'd probably feel better just trying to trade for Lugo.

Certainly Tampa is more likely to move an OF since they are now committed to Baldelli for six more years and have a glut of OF.

EDIT: Just an addition here, I'm pretty happy with the sox infield as is and don't really want Furcal or Lugo. Just throwing out names.

Just throwing out names eh... Well mlb4u.com has us listed as interested in Alex Cintron, he's not speedy anymore but he would certainly make a great utility guy. The news down here in the desert is AZ will give a couple bats for some pen help.

Banix12
11-11-2005, 12:30 AM
Just throwing out names eh... Well mlb4u.com has us listed as interested in Alex Cintron, he's not speedy anymore but he would certainly make a great utility guy. The news down here in the desert is AZ will give a couple bats for some pen help.

Hey, anything to fix up the bench which was such a huge hole for most of last year.

getonbckthr
11-11-2005, 01:57 AM
First of a question before I get to my idea. When we got Contreras and the Yankees sent cash towards his contract was it 1 lump sum or is it yearly? The reason I ask is, if was in 1 lump some that would mean the Sox have that money right now to use. Contreras was all right in 04 and early 05 but the second half he caught a hot streak. Now another question I have who is the real Contreras, and is his value any higher than right now? What i'm thinking is since we have the money from New York towards Contreras already sign Washburn with that money then trade Contreras to Texas for Soriano as your DH. Soriano got paid 7.5 million last year. With the money saved from Thomas' and Everett's buyouts we could pay Soriano. Then deal Rowand, Harris and Marte to Florida for Juan Pierre (who is actually younger than pods). That would take care of the 2 hole, 3 hole and DH problem. If we don't resign Paulie we should be able to get away sending some prospects to Colorado for Helton (12 million last year). In reality the word "prospect" is a pretty word for future trade bait. Especially with the Sox Scouting ability we should regularly have a loaded system. Assuming we resign Paulie this could be your 2006 lineup:

1)Pods-LF....................................Buehrle
2)Pierre-CF..................................Garcia
3)Soriano-DH...............................Garland
4)Konerko-1B...............................Washburn
5)Dye-RF.....................................Mccarthy
6)Iguchi-2B
7)Pierzynski-C
8)Crede-3B
9)Uribe-SS

mcp5185
11-11-2005, 02:17 AM
What about Brian Giles in the 2 hole? I don't know if he has a lot of speed, but I do know he has a high obp. Could he perform in the 2 hole or is he more of a middle of the lineup guy?

OEO Magglio
11-11-2005, 03:42 AM
What about Brian Giles in the 2 hole? I don't know if he has a lot of speed, but I do know he has a high obp. Could he perform in the 2 hole or is he more of a middle of the lineup guy?
He's a middle of the order guy, Ozzie will only move gooch if he gets a furcal or a pierre or a real speedy guy up there. Tad was awesome there last year but I think he realizes Tad can be pretty darn productive down in the order, however if we can't find a good replacement for gooch in that 2 hole(not rowand) then he'll stay there.

OEO Magglio
11-11-2005, 03:47 AM
First of a question before I get to my idea. When we got Contreras and the Yankees sent cash towards his contract was it 1 lump sum or is it yearly? The reason I ask is, if was in 1 lump some that would mean the Sox have that money right now to use. Contreras was all right in 04 and early 05 but the second half he caught a hot streak. Now another question I have who is the real Contreras, and is his value any higher than right now? What i'm thinking is since we have the money from New York towards Contreras already sign Washburn with that money then trade Contreras to Texas for Soriano as your DH. Soriano got paid 7.5 million last year. With the money saved from Thomas' and Everett's buyouts we could pay Soriano. Then deal Rowand, Harris and Marte to Florida for Juan Pierre (who is actually younger than pods). That would take care of the 2 hole, 3 hole and DH problem. If we don't resign Paulie we should be able to get away sending some prospects to Colorado for Helton (12 million last year). In reality the word "prospect" is a pretty word for future trade bait. Especially with the Sox Scouting ability we should regularly have a loaded system. Assuming we resign Paulie this could be your 2006 lineup:

1)Pods-LF....................................Buehrle
2)Pierre-CF..................................Garcia
3)Soriano-DH...............................Garland
4)Konerko-1B...............................Washburn
5)Dye-RF.....................................Mccarthy
6)Iguchi-2B
7)Pierzynski-C
8)Crede-3B
9)Uribe-SS
Contreras learned what he was doing out there, it just wasn't a hot streak, he learned to pitch. Trading Jose is dumb imo, the guy has a good chance to be our ace for the whole season, I believe he'll put together a better full year then last--no doubt in my mind. Second, Washburn is an extreme fly ball pitcher, he'd get absolutely wacked around playing at the cell. Also, to answer your question, I'm almost positive that the yanks will be paying 2 mil of his contract this year.

IowaSox1971
11-11-2005, 05:00 AM
Do not move Iguchi out of the second spot in the lineup. He is awesome as a No. 2 hitter.

Do not mess with the pitching staff. More than likely, we will have a starting pitcher get injured next season. So, we need depth. It's not a bad thing to have El Duque or McCarthy in the bullpen when the season starts.

Do not trade for Juan Pierre. Having Podsednik and Pierre at the top of the order would not be all that great of a situation for us. Neither guy hits for much power, and having them occupy the top two spots would hurt us after the first inning. Podsednik had only 25 RBIs for the entire regular season. If you have two guys like that at the top of your order, then run production probably is going to suffer. It's important to have a No. 2 hitter with power. Remember Iguchi's three-run homer off Wells in the playoffs? When guys at or near the top of the order come up with men on base, they need to be able to drive them in, too.

getonbckthr
11-11-2005, 06:45 AM
Do not move Iguchi out of the second spot in the lineup. He is awesome as a No. 2 hitter.

Do not mess with the pitching staff. More than likely, we will have a starting pitcher get injured next season. So, we need depth. It's not a bad thing to have El Duque or McCarthy in the bullpen when the season starts.

Do not trade for Juan Pierre. Having Podsednik and Pierre at the top of the order would not be all that great of a situation for us. Neither guy hits for much power, and having them occupy the top two spots would hurt us after the first inning. Podsednik had only 25 RBIs for the entire regular season. If you have two guys like that at the top of your order, then run production probably is going to suffer. It's important to have a No. 2 hitter with power. Remember Iguchi's three-run homer off Wells in the playoffs? When guys at or near the top of the order come up with men on base, they need to be able to drive them in, too.

I could just picture: Pods walks to lead off the game. Steals 2nd. Pierre gets a bunt single moving Pods to 3rd. Pierre steals 2nd. A single or 2 sacs later its 2-0 good guys and we haven't even thrown a pitch yet.

caulfield12
11-11-2005, 12:45 PM
First of a question before I get to my idea. When we got Contreras and the Yankees sent cash towards his contract was it 1 lump sum or is it yearly? The reason I ask is, if was in 1 lump some that would mean the Sox have that money right now to use. Contreras was all right in 04 and early 05 but the second half he caught a hot streak. Now another question I have who is the real Contreras, and is his value any higher than right now? What i'm thinking is since we have the money from New York towards Contreras already sign Washburn with that money then trade Contreras to Texas for Soriano as your DH. Soriano got paid 7.5 million last year. With the money saved from Thomas' and Everett's buyouts we could pay Soriano. Then deal Rowand, Harris and Marte to Florida for Juan Pierre (who is actually younger than pods). That would take care of the 2 hole, 3 hole and DH problem. If we don't resign Paulie we should be able to get away sending some prospects to Colorado for Helton (12 million last year). In reality the word "prospect" is a pretty word for future trade bait. Especially with the Sox Scouting ability we should regularly have a loaded system. Assuming we resign Paulie this could be your 2006 lineup:

1)Pods-LF....................................Buehrle
2)Pierre-CF..................................Garcia
3)Soriano-DH...............................Garland
4)Konerko-1B...............................Washburn
5)Dye-RF.....................................Mccarthy
6)Iguchi-2B
7)Pierzynski-C
8)Crede-3B
9)Uribe-SS

The Yankees are paying his signing bonuses and $3 million towards next season, so we will have Contreras for $6 million, one of the best bargains on the team. What pitcher could you go out there and get for less than $10 million that could do the same thing Jose did for us in the 2nd half? It would be insane to trade him unless the Sox fall out of contention and want to get some prospects back in return in July, knowing they canīt afford to resign him or donīt wish to.

Washburn is too much of a flyball pitcher for Comiskey. He would be the 4th or 5th starter on the White Sox, if that.

Not sure why Florida would want Harris when they have Castillo. Marte cannot just be sent anywhere, just because we want to clear $2.25 million from the payroll and get him out of town. Not sure why the Marlins would want Rowand...

Heltonīs deal is for over $100 million and a deal breaker unless they pay at least 30-40% of it, which other teams will be able to afford before us.

We supposedly had great scouting in 1999-2001, the best rated farm system in the majors, but most of it did not pan out, only Buehrle, Garland, Crede and Rowand. Our scouting did a great job in the playoffs...but we have notoriously struggled against rookies, left-handed pitchers with funky deliveries and unknown 5th starter types that were called up for 1-3 starts. It was uncanny from 2001-04.

TaylorStSox
11-11-2005, 04:11 PM
I really don't see Iguchi as anything but a 2 hitter. He hit alot better when he had a purpose. When he hit without guys on base, he put alot of real ugly swings on the ball.

caulfield12
11-11-2005, 04:22 PM
I really don't see Iguchi as anything but a 2 hitter. He hit alot better when he had a purpose. When he hit without guys on base, he put alot of real ugly swings on the ball.

He does seem to concentrate much better when men are on base...it would seem to be a wash which would give him more opportunities with men on, 6th in the order or 2nd behind Pods.

I think the move down in the line-up is only an idea, and will only be put into place with the right acquisition for that 2nd slot in the line-up, as we simply do not have anyone else on the current roster who could do the job nearly as well.

I donīt think anyone could expect him to hit 25-30 homers down in the order either, I think 18-23 is a much safer bet.

IowaSox1971
11-11-2005, 04:23 PM
I could just picture: Pods walks to lead off the game. Steals 2nd. Pierre gets a bunt single moving Pods to 3rd. Pierre steals 2nd. A single or 2 sacs later its 2-0 good guys and we haven't even thrown a pitch yet.


I can just picture Crede and Uribe getting on base numerous times and rarely scoring runs. I think it's fine to have one guy with little extra-base power at the top of the order, but two guys like that at the top can end up hurting your offense in the long run. Keep in mind that your leadoff hitter usually only leads off just once per game. To me, the ideal No. 2 hitter is someone like Iguchi, who can hit behind the runner if needed, draw a big walk if needed and also hit a key double or home run when needed. Why mess with success?

nodiggity59
11-11-2005, 04:30 PM
I can just picture Crede and Uribe getting on base numerous times and rarely scoring runs. I think it's fine to have one guy with little extra-base power at the top of the order, but two guys like that at the top can end up hurting your offense in the long run. Keep in mind that your leadoff hitter usually only leads off just once per game. To me, the ideal No. 2 hitter is someone like Iguchi, who can hit behind the runner if needed, draw a big walk if needed and also hit a key double or home run when needed. Why mess with success?

SLOW

CLAP

If we ever get Furcal, that would mean Pods has a bus ticket out of Chi town, IMO. Think of how much easier it would be to find a #3 hitter solution w/ LF open. If nothing else, we could use Anderson there. Ozzie wants more speed but Pods in left and Gooch at DH would just be way too weak. Plus, Pods/Gooch at 1-2 has worked just fine and costs us less than $5mil.

caulfield12
11-11-2005, 04:37 PM
SLOW

CLAP

If we ever get Furcal, that would mean Pods has a bus ticket out of Chi town, IMO. Think of how much easier it would be to find a #3 hitter solution w/ LF open. If nothing else, we could use Anderson there. Ozzie wants more speed but Pods in left and Gooch at DH would just be way too weak. Plus, Pods/Gooch at 1-2 has worked just fine and costs us less than $5mil.

I think we will keep Pods as long as heīs still affordable, no longer than the 6th year of contractual rights probably....of course, stolen base guys still donīt make nearly the money of the big sluggers and RBI guys.

I would be shocked if we paid $10 million for Furcal, since he does not even have a position on this team. Yeah, we can trade Uribe...but the upgrade is very questionable for an extra $6 million, and you are trading away a younger player. The odds of Uribe improving offensively are much greater than Furcal stealing more bases at this point in his career. Ozzie likes Uribe, he had a dicey moment when he didnīt run out a ball that stayed inthe park...but unless Ozzie simply loves Furcal from his time in Atlanta, it would absolutely shock me that we would OUTBID other teams.

Whitesox4ever
11-11-2005, 04:53 PM
I would like to see the Sox make a trade with the Devil Rays for Julio Lugo. He would make a great #2 hitter..

caulfield12
11-11-2005, 04:59 PM
I would like to see the Sox make a trade with the Devil Rays for Julio Lugo. He would make a great #2 hitter..

Well, besides his wife beating issues that got him booted out of Houston (remember Wil Cordero, also), he seems like he has prospered under the tutelage of Piniella.

Heīs not a marquee name because TB is ignored by all of baseball...but we do not have any place to play him.

Every idea ends up with us replacing players like Uribe with more expensive players...instead of finding players to fill holes that already exist.

And then we are diluting our minor league talent pool at the same time, because TB wonīt just give him away for free.

Lugo is also going to be 30 years old this month (if correct and not actually 32), so he doesnīt necessarily fit the mold of a younger player that we are looking for that would be making $2 million or less in years 2-4 of his career.

Banix12
11-11-2005, 05:13 PM
Well, besides his wife beating issues that got him booted out of Houston (remember Wil Cordero, also), he seems like he has prospered under the tutelage of Piniella.

Heīs not a marquee name because TB is ignored by all of baseball...but we do not have any place to play him.

Every idea ends up with us replacing players like Uribe with more expensive players...instead of finding players to fill holes that already exist.

And then we are diluting our minor league talent pool at the same time, because TB wonīt just give him away for free.

Lugo is also going to be 30 years old this month (if correct and not actually 32), so he doesnīt necessarily fit the mold of a younger player that we are looking for that would be making $2 million or less in years 2-4 of his career.


As I recall he was cleared of those wife beating charges. And I don't think really the sox are all too worried about age and $2 million dollars here and there right now. They are just looking to put the best team on the field for next year and try to repeat.

That said, the only reason I wouldn't get Lugo is his defense, not that good. If we got him I would actually probably DH him and bat him in the 2 hole. Move Iguchi to #3.

SoxSpeed22
11-11-2005, 05:14 PM
The only free agent that would help speed is Furcal, but Matsui may add power. And we don't know who's on the trade market, but KW can pull one out of his hat.

caulfield12
11-11-2005, 05:20 PM
As I recall he was cleared of those wife beating charges. And I don't think really the sox are all too worried about age and $2 million dollars here and there right now. They are just looking to put the best team on the field for next year and try to repeat.

That said, the only reason I wouldn't get Lugo is his defense, not that good. If we got him I would actually probably DH him and bat him in the 2 hole. Move Iguchi to #3.

Therein lies the whole problem. Thereīs absolutely nothing wrong with Uribe, and he still has a bigger upside than most players we could acquire at twice or three times what we are paying him.

Start making errors like Valentin and all of a sudden Garland, Buehrle and even Garcia at this point in his career...none of these guys are famous for missing bats and striking out guys...become much more ordinary pitchers.

Lugo made $3.25 million this past season and would probably be almost at the exact same salary as Uribe for 2006...havenīt had a chance to look at his contract status, but itīs in the vicinity I am sure.

nccwsfan
11-11-2005, 08:36 PM
The only free agent that would help speed is Furcal, but Matsui may add power. And we don't know who's on the trade market, but KW can pull one out of his hat.

Only a guess, but I'll be curious to see what the Marlins do with some of their players this offseason. Sounds more and more like they want to cut down some of that payroll. Everyone's talking Delgado, but Pierre might not be a bad option either...

brucefan34
11-15-2005, 03:28 PM
Any interest in Nomar?? Sounds like the Chubs are dumping him. Too much of a question mark health-wise?

As far as Furcal...I would like to see that because the Chubs want him...we could shove that up their a$$es too!!

jvoboogie
11-17-2005, 12:26 PM
Bah. Personally, I think this is so stupid. "Captain." What does that mean? It seems pretentious to me, like something the Yankees and Red Sox do. The captain of the Sox is Ozzie Guillen, the manager- from there it is a full team effort.
Agreed. The cubs did this with Sosa and all it did was give him a bigger head. The beautiful thing about this team is just that, "a team". The rest is just window dressing.