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View Full Version : Phillies possibly looking to trade Howard


Vestigio
11-08-2005, 07:07 PM
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1675&dept_id=18170&newsid=15506102&PAG=461&rfi=9

It didn't take a decoder ring to figure out that Gillick's initial thought was that Howard would be the odd-man out, since he is by far the more attractive player to other teams on the trading block.

Eventhough the Phillies will want an arm and a leg for Howard, what would you give up to get Howard?

Ol' No. 2
11-08-2005, 07:10 PM
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1675&dept_id=18170&newsid=15506102&PAG=461&rfi=9



Eventhough the Phillies will want an arm and a leg for Howard, what would you give up to get Howard?It didn't say that the Phillies were thinking any such thing, and I doubt very much they are. It said the author thought the Phillies would trade Howard. He's nuts.

RKMeibalane
11-08-2005, 08:41 PM
Ryan Howard is slated to be the anchor of the Phillies offense for the next ten years. He's not going anywhere, especially not after winning the ROY Award.

antitwins13
11-08-2005, 09:58 PM
If Konerko left I'd give up: The Viz Kid, Joey McBorchard, Dustin Hermanson, and cash considerations.

munchman33
11-08-2005, 10:00 PM
If Konerko left I'd give up: The Viz Kid, Joey McBorchard, Dustin Hermanson, and cash considerations.

You'd have to throw in one of our big four to even start being considered. Seriously.

antitwins13
11-08-2005, 10:06 PM
You'd have to throw in one of our big four to even start being considered. Seriously.


Well, I probably wouldn't want to give up the pitching, but if I had to choose one of the four I'd choose Contreras. He has a bloated salary and has despite a hot second half last year showed some inconsistencies in the first half.

Banix12
11-08-2005, 10:14 PM
I think if you have been as dissapointing as the Phillies have been over the last 4 years you listen to any reasonable offer.

Surely he is their best trading chip, don't know what I would give up for him. i would give up any of the top OF prospects, Young, Anderson. Though I am sure they would want one of the starting pitchers.

nodiggity59
11-08-2005, 10:42 PM
I think if you have been as dissapointing as the Phillies have been over the last 4 years you listen to any reasonable offer.

Surely he is their best trading chip, don't know what I would give up for him. i would give up any of the top OF prospects, Young, Anderson. Though I am sure they would want one of the starting pitchers.

They'll ask for Young, Bmac, plus something else and nobody will give it to them. Then they'll trade Thome to somebody.

Jjav829
11-08-2005, 11:33 PM
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1675&dept_id=18170&newsid=15506102&PAG=461&rfi=9



Eventhough the Phillies will want an arm and a leg for Howard, what would you give up to get Howard?

Two arms and two legs. :wink:

I really like Howard. He's going to be a legitimate 40 HR threat every year. If the Phillies are even considering trading him, Kenny should focus every bit of his energy on acquiring Howard.

Mr. White Sox
11-09-2005, 12:34 AM
I said that getting Howard could be a possibility at around the trade deadline 2005 because the Phillies may not be able to unload Thome. I was blasted :smile:. Even with this article now, I still doubt this would ever happen, and we'd have to do a deal of something like Freddy Garcia, Chris Young and cash.

TheOldRoman
11-09-2005, 01:29 AM
Well, I probably wouldn't want to give up the pitching, but if I had to choose one of the four I'd choose Contreras. He has a bloated salary and has despite a hot second half last year showed some inconsistencies in the first half.
You do realize that the Sox are paying $6mil a year for Contreras in 06, right? You remember that the Yankees picked up a portion of his salary? I mean, it would be really dumb to say he has a "bloated" salary when he is making $2 mil less than Buehrle and $3 million less than Garcia. If the Sox sign Garland to an extention this offseason, Contreras will be the least expensive of the Four Horsemen.

I wouldn't move Contreras unless I am getting Pujols in return. Contreras became one of the best pitchers in baseball. It wasn't a fluke, despite his "inconsistencies in the first half". Everyone knew that Contreras has all the talent in the world, he just needed to learn how to use it at the big league level. He finally listened to Coop, stopped shaking off signs, and used his fastball more. He isn't going to "forget" how to pitch.

getonbckthr
11-09-2005, 03:32 AM
what about something along the lines of:

sox get: howard, chavez, cormier,
phi get: rowand, bmac,marte, hermy, rogowski.

you guys probably think im on crack but i think it would make sense for everyone. By getting howard you no longer would need rogowski. Philly is losing Wagner so Marte, who for some reason is valuable around the league, would fill his spot, we get cormier in place of damaso. Mc is gonna be a stud but to get you give up. Rowand can be the CF that philly has been looking for. Chavez be a solid left handed bench player and occasional starter to give dye or anderson a blow. Hermy could replace Urbina due to his pending murder investigation. It give us a nice batting order, provided we resign paulie, with good alteration of rightie-leftie to prevent matchups for the opposition. As far as Bmac's spot in the rotation we could try to go with El Duque again or sign someone like Joe Mays.

lineup:
pods-cf
iguchi-2b
konerko-dh
howard-1b
dye-rf
aj-c
crede-3b
uribe-ss
anderson-lf

Banix12
11-09-2005, 04:04 AM
what about something along the lines of:

sox get: howard, chavez, cormier,
phi get: rowand, bmac,marte, hermy, rogowski.

you guys probably think im on crack but i think it would make sense for everyone. By getting howard you no longer would need rogowski. Philly is losing Wagner so Marte, who for some reason is valuable around the league, would fill his spot, we get cormier in place of damaso. Mc is gonna be a stud but to get you give up. Rowand can be the CF that philly has been looking for. Chavez be a solid left handed bench player and occasional starter to give dye or anderson a blow. Hermy could replace Urbina due to his pending murder investigation. It give us a nice batting order, provided we resign paulie, with good alteration of rightie-leftie to prevent matchups for the opposition. As far as Bmac's spot in the rotation we could try to go with El Duque again or sign someone like Joe Mays.

lineup:
pods-cf
iguchi-2b
konerko-dh
howard-1b
dye-rf
aj-c
crede-3b
uribe-ss
anderson-lf

Yeah I think you are past crack. Cormier is coming off a pretty poor season and he is getting up there in years. I'd frankly probably rather have Marte. Looking at Chavez's stats he looks barely better than Timo, do we really need a 4th OF that bad?

So it's essentially 5 players, 4 of which they can use right now (one of which is a potential #1 starter, another was one of the best relievers in baseball last year), for one solid young player, 1 ancient lefty near retirement coming off a season where his ERA was 5.89 and a bench player who hit .216 last year.

I know the sox would be getting Howard but the sox are also getting seriously getting screwed in this deal.

I also see you have Konerko and Howard on the same roster. If Konerko is coming back I would much rather have the pitching depth that the sox would have with BMac and Hermanson than the bat that Ryan Howard would provide. I know he is a stud hitter but pitching, and pitching depth in particular, is the most important thing a team can have.

getonbckthr
11-09-2005, 04:31 AM
I also see you have Konerko and Howard on the same roster. If Konerko is coming back I would much rather have the pitching depth that the sox would have with BMac and Hermanson than the bat that Ryan Howard would provide. I know he is a stud hitter but pitching, and pitching depth in particular, is the most important thing a team can have.

I'M WORRIED ABOUT HERMY'S BACK. HE WAS GREAT FOR US THIS YEAR, BUT WE NEED ASSURANCE. THE REASON I WANT HOWARD BADLY AND WOULD MAKE A NEAR 1 SIDED DEAL IS BECAUSE WE NEED ANOTHER BAT. HOWARD WILL COME AT A CHEAP PRICE(DOLLARS WISE) AT LEAST FOR NOW. WHEN IT COMES TIME TO PAY HIM THE BIG MONEY YOU FIGURE GUYS LIKE CONTRERAS, EL DUQUE AND DYE WILL BE OLDER AND WE WOULD HAVE THEIR SALARY TO USE. TO REPLACE DYE AT THAT TIME (2-3 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD) IT MIGHT BE TIME FOR ANDERSON TO BE LEADER, AND TIME FOR OWENS, YOUNG OR SWEENEY TO SHOW THEIR PROMISE. SPEAKING OF ANDERSON HIS APPARENT READINESS TO MAKE THAT STEP TO THE NEXT LEVEL MAKES AARON VERY EXPENDABLE.

Banix12
11-09-2005, 05:04 AM
I'M WORRIED ABOUT HERMY'S BACK. HE WAS GREAT FOR US THIS YEAR, BUT WE NEED ASSURANCE. THE REASON I WANT HOWARD BADLY AND WOULD MAKE A NEAR 1 SIDED DEAL IS BECAUSE WE NEED ANOTHER BAT. HOWARD WILL COME AT A CHEAP PRICE(DOLLARS WISE) AT LEAST FOR NOW. WHEN IT COMES TIME TO PAY HIM THE BIG MONEY YOU FIGURE GUYS LIKE CONTRERAS, EL DUQUE AND DYE WILL BE OLDER AND WE WOULD HAVE THEIR SALARY TO USE. TO REPLACE DYE AT THAT TIME (2-3 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD) IT MIGHT BE TIME FOR ANDERSON TO BE LEADER, AND TIME FOR OWENS, YOUNG OR SWEENEY TO SHOW THEIR PROMISE. SPEAKING OF ANDERSON HIS APPARENT READINESS TO MAKE THAT STEP TO THE NEXT LEVEL MAKES AARON VERY EXPENDABLE.

Gee thanks for leaving the caps lock on, it makes it soooo much easier to read. It's also not rude at all.

That still doesn't explain why you would bring on Cormier and Chavez. A washed up reliever and a never was 4th OF.

Being worried about Hermie's back is one thing, trading him is another. This trade doesn't provide assurance, it just gives up on him. His contract is insured, that's assurance. Let him come back and earn his keep, if he fails put him on the DL and it's Bajenaru time.

You also assume Konerko would gladly become an everyday DH, if there were a chance of that happening Konerko would not resign.

The sox need a bat, but if Konerko returns the team basically just needs someone who can do better than Carl Everett. That's not really a difficult guy to find. If Konerko doesn't come back, then lets go ballistic with the Howard trades.

I just think it is a foolish trade to send that much talent for one useful player.

You worry too much about three years down the road. And turn off the damn caps lock.

getonbckthr
11-09-2005, 05:38 AM
Gee thanks for leaving the caps lock on, it makes it soooo much easier to read. It's also not rude at all.

That still doesn't explain why you would bring on Cormier and Chavez. A washed up reliever and a never was 4th OF.


You worry too much about three years down the road. And turn off the damn caps lock.


CORMIER BASICALLY TO REPLACE MARTE, I THINK THE DAMAGE/BENEFITS ARE EQUAL. CHAVEZ IS A LITTLE BETTER THAN TIMO WHO IS YOUNGER AND PROBALLY CHEAPER. I DO WORRY BOUT 3 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD AS MUCH AS NEXT YEAR. I DONT WANNA HAVE A GOOD TEAM JUST THIS YEAR AND NEXT YEAR I WANT TO CONCRETE OURSELVES IN THIS SPOT FOR A WHILE. WITH CLEVELAND UP AND COMING I DONT SEE A PROBLEM IN AN UPGRADE. AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CAPS, LIKE I SAID IN ANOTHER THREAD MY KEYBOARD IS MESSED UP AND WILL GO INTO CAPS FOR SOME REASON, I BASICALLY HAVE TO RESTART MY COMPUTER TO GET BACK TO NORMAL. SO AGAIN I APOLOGIZE.

Banix12
11-09-2005, 01:05 PM
CORMIER BASICALLY TO REPLACE MARTE, I THINK THE DAMAGE/BENEFITS ARE EQUAL. CHAVEZ IS A LITTLE BETTER THAN TIMO WHO IS YOUNGER AND PROBALLY CHEAPER. I DO WORRY BOUT 3 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD AS MUCH AS NEXT YEAR. I DONT WANNA HAVE A GOOD TEAM JUST THIS YEAR AND NEXT YEAR I WANT TO CONCRETE OURSELVES IN THIS SPOT FOR A WHILE. WITH CLEVELAND UP AND COMING I DONT SEE A PROBLEM IN AN UPGRADE. AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CAPS, LIKE I SAID IN ANOTHER THREAD MY KEYBOARD IS MESSED UP AND WILL GO INTO CAPS FOR SOME REASON, I BASICALLY HAVE TO RESTART MY COMPUTER TO GET BACK TO NORMAL. SO AGAIN I APOLOGIZE.

Ok, hope you solve your computer problems.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the benefits of Cormier and Chavez. I think there are better players than both of them available on the free agent market for about the same cost. There are probably better players in the farm system, at least in the case of Chavez.

My biggest issue with the trade is giving up that much major league talent for a player that really has only a 1 year major league track record. Ever hear of the sophomore slump? Remember Bob "The Hammer" Hamelin? Not that Howard is going to be like that, he's better than Hamelin but you're still talking about a young player.

The Milwaukee Brewers didn't even get the quality of players that you are proposing when they traded Ritchie Sexson. They got 3 major league placeholders (Spivey, Overbay, and Counsell) and three promising minor leaugers (Capuano and two other guys whose names escape me, though they did make it to the majors), and that was for a guy who was basically a guaranteed 40 HR player with a track record. And McCarthy is worth more than any of the players traded in the Sexson deal.

McCarthy for Howard straight up is actually a pretty fair deal, both have the same basic history and the same promise and it's doubtful the Phillies are going to ever get a better pitcher offered to them in a trade. However I would be inclined to throw in Rowand or an OF prospect like Owens or Sweeney if they really force the issue.