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caulfield12
11-06-2005, 02:50 PM
in his Daily Southtown article today, and sign with Anaheim.

Claims that the 5 year contract (versus 4) will be the breaking point of negotiations with the Sox.

Said the only question mark with the infield and catching is whether Harris will be traded or not, expects Blum to sign with a West Coast team, even though he has hinted that he wants to return.

NWSox
11-06-2005, 02:59 PM
I have a hard time believing the Sox are going to lose PK over that extra year. The Sox have been far more particular about contract length with pitchers. PK is only 29 and given that he plays 1B and will be an ideal DH later in his career should ease any concerns about a 5 year contract. I think the price tag will be the ultimate deciding factor - if the market forces the contract to $15MM or higher, the Sox will not be willing to compete.

WestSox
11-06-2005, 02:59 PM
Nice to know that he's an optimist :rolleyes:

TomBradley72
11-06-2005, 03:01 PM
No way have the WSox already led off with the longest they are willing to go in terms of lenght of term...current offer at 4 years. He's 29...and with the DH an option down the road...a 5th year is not a huge risk.

WestSox
11-06-2005, 03:04 PM
Unless they're willing to make a deal for Delgado, Griffey, or some other over-priced stud, they can't afford to lose Paulie's bat. Not with Frank in the twilight of his career and with Everett on his way out.

caulfield12
11-06-2005, 03:07 PM
I have a hard time believing the Sox are going to lose PK over that extra year. The Sox have been far more particular about contract length with pitchers. PK is only 29 and given that he plays 1B and will be an ideal DH later in his career should ease any concerns about a 5 year contract. I think the price tag will be the ultimate deciding factor - if the market forces the contract to $15MM or higher, the Sox will not be willing to compete.

Does anyone realize we would be paying him more money than Vladimir Guerrero, and so would the Angels? Does that seem a bit crazy to anyone...especially based on the fact that he does not play a so-called skill position and has been very inconsistent offensively throughout his career?

Deadguy
11-06-2005, 03:08 PM
Konerko is the benefactor of an extremely weak FA class, in addition to entering the market at the highest value he's ever going to reach. Isn't his agent now talking about 6 or 7 years? It seems like he can demand just about anything he wants at this point, and Anaheim will probably give it to him.

caulfield12
11-06-2005, 03:15 PM
Konerko is the benefactor of an extremely weak FA class, in addition to entering the market at the highest value he's ever going to reach. Isn't his agent now talking about 6 or 7 years? It seems like he can demand just about anything he wants at this point, and Anaheim will probably give it to him.

I do not know anymore. If this goes past the negotiating deadline, I think he will be gone. Originally, I really wanted him back, but his agent and his dad are saying lots of annoying things. We lost Thomas, Ordonez, Lee and Valentin for all intents and purposes....this will be the hugest test ever of the KW-OG philosophy

Hokiesox
11-06-2005, 03:53 PM
Does anyone realize we would be paying him more money than Vladimir Guerrero, and so would the Angels? Does that seem a bit crazy to anyone...especially based on the fact that he does not play a so-called skill position and has been very inconsistent offensively throughout his career?

Not when you consider Vlad hit ~.080 for the ALCS while paulie hit ~.350.

jabrch
11-06-2005, 03:59 PM
Joe Cowley is...

A) A major jerkoff

B) ignorant, constantly guessing wrong about what will happen next

C) Always willing to assume the worst when it comes to the White Sox

D) Unobjective

E) a major jerkoff

F) All of the above

HINT: It's F...Cowley knows absolutely nothing.

By the way, if PK gets 5/75, the Sox have no business signing him. That would be a terrible deal for this franchise to handcuff itself to.

soxruleEP
11-06-2005, 03:59 PM
Let's not get too upset over an agent's posturing in the media. The Angels are not going to pay Konerko as much or more than they pay Vlad.

There is a growing sense of fiscal responsiblity in baseball despite what seems to be evidence of the opposite. teams are willing to pay Vlad or A-Rod that huge long-term money, but PK? Konerko will not be paid salary equal to the superstar skill players, no matter how much his agent says stupid things such as "Paul has waited his whole career to be a free agent." What player doesn't? But when they get there, it doesn't always mean they get all the money and years they want.

And if someone does pay him, I guess I'll have to live with it. However, I have serious doubts that people will line up to pay him that much money.

And KW will not lose PK over a year.

CLR01
11-06-2005, 04:04 PM
Not when you consider Vlad hit ~.080 for the ALCS while paulie hit ~.350.


PK didn't have to face the Sox pitching staff. :cool: The stats say he hit .286 anyway.

Deadguy
11-06-2005, 04:09 PM
There is a growing sense of fiscal responsiblity in baseball despite what seems to be evidence of the opposite. teams are willing to pay Vlad or A-Rod that huge long-term money, but PK? Konerko will not be paid salary equal to the superstar skill players, no matter how much his agent says stupid things such as "Paul has waited his whole career to be a free agent." What player doesn't? But when they get there, it doesn't always mean they get all the money and years they want.


The problem is, he is the crown jewel in a very bad FA class. Teams that are desperate to improve will overpay for his services. He and his agent know that they have the upperhand here, and will take full advantage of it. Konerko will get more money and more years than he deserves. It's just a question of if the Sox are willing to fall in line with the other teams that are going to give into his demands.

SOXSINCE'70
11-06-2005, 04:12 PM
Now Joe Cowley's a psychic??Can he predict world events as well??:o:

Just asking.:D: :D:

Deadguy
11-06-2005, 04:14 PM
Not when you consider Vlad hit ~.080 for the ALCS while paulie hit ~.350.

It was .050 and .286, but we're talking about small sample sizes here. Lots of great players struggle in the playoffs, mainly because if they are in the playoffs, they are going to be facing tough pitching.

Look at what David Ortiz did against the A's in the 2003 ALDS. Look at what Tejada and Chavez did that same series. Look at what the 2004 WS MVP did in the 1998 ALDS or the 1995 ALDS.

Players have hot and cold streaks, and that is just a fact of baseball. Sometimes they are hot at the right time, other times they struggle at the worst possible times. Or maybe they just get handcuffed by great pitching.

These things shouldn't really mean a whole lot when you're talking about millions and millions of dollars.

samram
11-06-2005, 04:15 PM
Joe Cowley is...

A) A major jerkoff

B) ignorant, constantly guessing wrong about what will happen next

C) Always willing to assume the worst when it comes to the White Sox

D) Unobjective

E) a major jerkoff

F) All of the above

HINT: It's F...Cowley knows absolutely nothing.

By the way, if PK gets 5/75, the Sox have no business signing him. That would be a terrible deal for this franchise to handcuff itself to.

Agreed. When I was in Chicago last weekend, I heard him on the radio. He made it sound as if the Sox playoff run was a torturous hell he had been put through. I'm not saying he has to openly root for the team, or root for them at all, but he made it sound as if the Sox had really inconvenienced him by playing so deep into the playoffs.

Oh, and if PK ends up with a more lucrative contract than Vlad, that team will have entered into a very bad deal.

veeter
11-06-2005, 04:16 PM
The Magglio thing wore me out, now this. You get attached to these guys. They say they want to come back. Then they turn out to be greedy pricks. Paulie better remember when he completely sucked in '03, the Sox stood by him. He gladly accepted every pay check when he was so bad, they had to bench him. I'm at the point already, that if he comes back I'll be surprised. Ironically, Big Frank, who has been nothing but bashed by the media, is the one super star that has always made it clear he wants to stay with the Sox for life. Frank is the man. If Paulie leaves, I hope we kick his ass from here to sunday.

MarySwiss
11-06-2005, 04:48 PM
I still think it will come down to intangibles. Unless the Angels make some kind of really insane offer--say, $16 million for 7 years--I believe the Sox will match them. This is a tough one to call, though. Some reasons:

1. Anaheim is closer to Scottsdale than Chicago is.
This would seem to favor Anaheim, but these days, how far away is anywhere? Anaheim is a one-hour flight, Chicago is four hours. Big deal.

2. The Angels train in Tempe, which is about 20 minutes from Paulie's house.
And the Sox train in Tucson, which is less than two hours southeast down I-10.

3. Paulie is a hero in Chicago.
This would not be true, at least not initially, in Anaheim.

4. His words and actions at the rally seem to indicate that he'd like to try for the repeat.
I personally feel that his gesture of giving the game ball to Jerry was sincere, despite what the more cynical mediots have inferred. But it was obvious that Jerry was deeply moved. And Paulie let it be known that he was annoyed by all the media blather about bad umpire calls and open or shut roofs that indicated that the Sox somehow weren't worthy of the championship.

5. There are rumors (discussed in another thread) that he and Mike Sciosia are not exactly presidents of each other's fan club.
He's a competitor. Competitors do not like being told they're not good at something, even if it's true.

Still, no one can blame Paulie for trying to get top dollar for his services. So we'll see how it plays out.

One thing that is inarguable, however, is that some guy who writes for the Southtown is probably not the most authoritative source for accurate information about Paulie's--or anyone else's with the possible exception of his own--contract negotiations.

soxtalker
11-06-2005, 06:07 PM
Unless they're willing to make a deal for Delgado, Griffey, or some other over-priced stud, they can't afford to lose Paulie's bat. Not with Frank in the twilight of his career and with Everett on his way out.

I think that this is the general feeling among Sox fans (and media). But maybe we don't have to replace his power with someone from the outside. If we can't get a power hitter for a reasonable price, could we get someone to take Iguchi's #2 slot? Iguchi sacrificed a lot of power this year, so maybe he could move to the power slot.

RallyBowl
11-06-2005, 06:24 PM
in his Daily Southtown article today, and sign with Anaheim.

Claims that the 5 year contract (versus 4) will be the breaking point of negotiations with the Sox.

Said the only question mark with the infield and catching is whether Harris will be traded or not, expects Blum to sign with a West Coast team, even though he has hinted that he wants to return.


I predict Cowley will be leaving.

DickAllen72
11-06-2005, 06:32 PM
I think that this is the general feeling among Sox fans (and media). But maybe we don't have to replace his power with someone from the outside. If we can't get a power hitter for a reasonable price, could we get someone to take Iguchi's #2 slot? Iguchi sacrificed a lot of power this year, so maybe he could move to the power slot.
Enter Rafael Furcal, with Iguchi moving to DH in the middle of the lineup.

They'd be better off paying Furcal $8M than Paulie >$12M.

If they do sign Paulie for $12M or less, I'd still try to sign Furcal and move Iguchi to the middle of the order.

TomBradley72
11-06-2005, 06:33 PM
IMHO...a 29 year old...coming off two 40 HR/100 RBI seasons in a row(one of only two in 105 year history of the franshise)...rises to the occasion when it matters most (ALDS/ALCS/WS)..for a franshise that just won it's first title in 88 years....just found a way back to it's attendance levels of 11 years ago...he's worth the money...both for his on the field production and what he means to organization overall and to a newly expanding fan base. He's worth the money. We have may other pieces locked up for another year or two (Buehrle, Garcia, BMac, Contrera, Uribe, Iguchi,etc.)....at the end of all this Frank/Paulie combined will be paid about the same as they were(combined) this year.

DickAllen72
11-06-2005, 06:39 PM
IMHO...a 29 year old...coming off two 40 HR/100 RBI seasons in a row(one of only two in 105 year history of the franshise)...rises to the occasion when it matters most (ALDS/ALCS/WS)..for a franshise that just won it's first title in 88 years....just found a way back to it's attendance levels of 11 years ago...he's worth the money...both for his on the field production and what he means to organization overall and to a newly expanding fan base. He's worth the money. We have may other pieces locked up for another year or two (Buehrle, Garcia, BMac, Contrera, Uribe, Iguchi,etc.)....at the end of all this Frank/Paulie combined will be paid about the same as they were(combined) this year.

The most they should offer Paulie is $12M per year for four years guaranteed, plus give him an option fifth year at $12M with a $2M buyout.

That guarantees him $50M with a shot at $60M if he's still producing. If that's not good enough for him to stay where he has been treated well by the organization and as a hero by the fans, let him go.

MarySwiss
11-06-2005, 07:00 PM
The most they should offer Paulie is $12M per year for four years guaranteed, plus give him an option fifth year at $12M with a $2M buyout.
That guarantees him $50M with a shot at $60M if he's still producing. If that's not good enough for him to stay where he has been treated well by the organization and as a hero by the fans, let him go.
Yeah, that would work...if they were trying to get rid of him! They ALREADY offered him 4/48, which if I got my math right translates to $12M per year for 4 years.

Meanwhile, TomBradley72 wrote:
IMHO...a 29 year old...coming off two 40 HR/100 RBI seasons in a row(one of only two in 105 year history of the franshise)...rises to the occasion when it matters most (ALDS/ALCS/WS)..for a franshise that just won it's first title in 88 years....just found a way back to it's attendance levels of 11 years ago...he's worth the money...both for his on the field production and what he means to organization overall and to a newly expanding fan base. He's worth the money. We have may other pieces locked up for another year or two (Buehrle, Garcia, BMac, Contrera, Uribe, Iguchi,etc.)....at the end of all this Frank/Paulie combined will be paid about the same as they were(combined) this year.
Can we please stop the insanity? This team won the WORLD SERIES! And Paulie was a huge part of that. Although it's hard for us rank-and-file type folks to understand how someone could be underpaid at $12M per year, that is the reality. And Paulie--for all the reasons TomB wrote above, is IMO a must sign.

Brian26
11-06-2005, 07:36 PM
How many more perfectly concentric orbits does Hineybird Joe need to make before he disappears up his own you-know-what? He has to be at least halfway there by now.

antitwins13
11-06-2005, 07:37 PM
Nice to know that he's an optimist :rolleyes:

Not an optimist, but a realist.

Daver
11-06-2005, 07:38 PM
Can we please stop the insanity? This team won the WORLD SERIES! And Paulie was a huge part of that. Although it's hard for us rank-and-file type folks to understand how someone could be underpaid at $12M per year, that is the reality. And Paulie--for all the reasons TomB wrote above, is IMO a must sign.

Didn't this team just prove that no one is irreplaceable?

johnny_mostil
11-06-2005, 07:50 PM
Oh, and if PK ends up with a more lucrative contract than Vlad, that team will have entered into a very bad deal.

And Mr. Guerrero would not be a happy camper.

Realist
11-06-2005, 07:54 PM
Not an optimist, but a realist.

:?:

MarySwiss
11-06-2005, 07:55 PM
Didn't this team just prove that no one is irreplaceable?

Sorry, but no. This team proved that players from an underachieving Sox team were replaceable. This is a championship team, and some of the players may well be replaceable, but as of now, that remains to be seen.

soxfan26
11-06-2005, 08:19 PM
By the way, if PK gets 5/75, the Sox have no business signing him. That would be a terrible deal for this franchise to handcuff itself to.

Well said. I'd love for the Sox to bring PK back but for the prices some are hinting at.

And Paulie--for all the reasons TomB wrote above, is IMO a must sign.

I disagree with you. I'm not trying to take anything away from PK but there are limits. The goal (we hope) is to be competitive for several years. People suggesting that the money is "there" to sign PK because of the Sox success are wrong.

I think a realistic expectation is a team payroll in the neighborhood of $90-$95 million next season. If a deal for PK fits in there then we welcome him back. Daver is right - this Sox team proved that no single player is irreplaceable.

soxwon
11-06-2005, 10:34 PM
Joe Cowley is...

A) A major jerkoff

B) ignorant, constantly guessing wrong about what will happen next

C) Always willing to assume the worst when it comes to the White Sox

D) Unobjective

E) a major jerkoff

F) All of the above

HINT: It's F...Cowley knows absolutely nothing.

By the way, if PK gets 5/75, the Sox have no business signing him. That would be a terrible deal for this franchise to handcuff itself to.


Just cause he threw a no hitter for us once, he thinks he's a God or something.

Lip Man 1
11-06-2005, 11:13 PM
Soxwon:

If you are being sacractic it needs to be in teal.

If not allow me to clue you in....the Joe Cowley who no hit the Angels is not the Joe Cowley who writes for the Daily Southtown.

:smile:

Lip

santo=dorf
11-06-2005, 11:16 PM
Just cause he threw a no hitter for us once, he thinks he's a God or something.

:roflmao:

34 Inch Stick
11-07-2005, 09:44 AM
I put Joe Cowley speculation one step below overhearing KW at the luggage carousel at O'Hare. It may end up being true, but Cowley has no inside knowledge of the situation.

soxfanatlanta
11-07-2005, 10:14 AM
Enter Rafael Furcal, with Iguchi moving to DH in the middle of the lineup.

They'd be better off paying Furcal $8M than Paulie >$12M.

If they do sign Paulie for $12M or less, I'd still try to sign Furcal and move Iguchi to the middle of the order.

Good point, but you are going to sacrafice defense for that move. I've seen Furcal play second, and he is not comfortable at all there. Iguchi's defense, IMO, is still better than Furcals at 2nd. Also, I am still not convinced that Iguchi's power numbers will get significantly better moving him down the batting order; he's great at the off-speed stuff, but he looked overmatched with the fastballs.

If they can get PK at $12 million, so be it. But I have a feeling that we are in for another Beltran-type sweepstakes, which will move him out of town. Delgado would be a nice replacement, no?

The one thing I am sure of, is that I do not want KW's job - ever!

caulfield12
11-07-2005, 10:18 AM
Good point, but you are going to sacrafice defense for that move. I've seen Furcal play second, and he is not comfortable at all there. Iguchi's defense, IMO, is still better than Furcals at 2nd. Also, I am still not convinced that Iguchi's power numbers will get significantly better moving him down the batting order; he's great at the off-speed stuff, but he looked overmatched with the fastballs.

If they can get PK at $12 million, so be it. But I have a feeling that we are in for another Beltran-type sweepstakes, which will move him out of town. Delgado would be a nice replacement, no?

The one thing I am sure of, is that I do not want KW's job - ever!

Furcal makes no sense, simply because we need to replace power and the guy is still going to end up getting closer to $10 million IMO.

There´s no way he is going to play in the field over Uribe and Iguchi, so why would he even want to come to Chicagoż A guy at this stage of his career is not going to want to be a DH, and he´s not going to want to convert to another position, assuming the White Sox felt he could be better defensively than Iguchi. We already have a much cheaper version of that player in Harris...we do not need Furcal, who has a very spotty reputation for a number of reasons.

slavko
11-07-2005, 11:30 AM
How many more perfectly concentric orbits does Hineybird Joe need to make before he disappears up his own you-know-what? He has to be at least halfway there by now.

Just to be a technical bastard, those orbits aren't concentric. If they were, how would you get from one to the other? They are a single spiral with a decreasing radius.

Like the old question:How many grooves are there on a 12 inch LP phono record? The answer, of course, is one.

Jenks4Pres
11-07-2005, 11:32 AM
Don't worry. If Paulie leaves, Kenny will go out and get a stud!!! Trust in Kenny, he's the man and he knows what's best for the Chi Sox!!

TomBradley72
11-07-2005, 11:39 AM
Those orbits aren't concentric. If they were, how would you get from one to the other? They are a single spiral with a decreasing radius.

Like the old question:How many grooves are there on a 12 inch LP phono record? The answer, of course, is one.

Wow....

:bong:

DickAllen72
11-07-2005, 05:13 PM
Good point, but you are going to sacrafice defense for that move. I've seen Furcal play second, and he is not comfortable at all there. Iguchi's defense, IMO, is still better than Furcals at 2nd.


I'm surprised to hear that. I figured since he's such a great fielding shortstop, and most of his errors I believe were due to wild throws, a move to 2nd would actually improve his defense by cutting down on the distance of the throws. But I've never seen him play 2B so I'll take your word for it.

Of course another possibility is to play Furcal at SS and Uribe at 2B, since Uribe was outstanding at 2B in '04. However, that might mess with team chemistry because now the whole middle of the infield would be moving around to accomodate a highly paid newcomer.

If Furcal can be had at $8M, I'd take that chance. At least then if Pods goes down again, we'd have a leadoff hitter. If Crede goes down, Uribe moves to 3B and Iguchi back at 2B and the infield is in great shape. Plus as mentioned, Furcal in the #2 slot allows Iguchi to move down to the middle where Ozzie repeatedly said he would like to use him.

The Sox can now afford to pay Konerko $12M and still pay Furcal $8M. At the risk of causing hard feelings with Uribe and Iguchi, I'd still take the chance. They should be professional enough to realize that's how the business of baseball goes some time.

MarySwiss
11-07-2005, 05:43 PM
The Sox can now afford to pay Konerko $12M and still pay Furcal $8M. At the risk of causing hard feelings with Uribe and Iguchi, I'd still take the chance. They should be professional enough to realize that's how the business of baseball goes some time.

Once again, Konerko is not going to sign for $12M. And by all means, let's piss off Uribe and Iguchi. After all, who needs them? Especially if we can get--DRUMROLL--Rafael Furcal!

DickAllen72
11-07-2005, 07:05 PM
Once again, Konerko is not going to sign for $12M. And by all means, let's piss off Uribe and Iguchi. After all, who needs them? Especially if we can get--DRUMROLL--Rafael Furcal!

Do you understand anything? The way baseball is structured today, some players get a lot more than they're worth simply because of the situation. Other players get less than they're worth because they're locked up under a multi-year contract.

Konerko getting $12M would be overpaying him, but for the Sox in their current situation it would be worth overpaying him. Now that might piss off some of his teammates who may believe that Paulie is not that much more valuable than they are, but hey, that's baseball. Now if Paulie is offered say $13 or $14M from another team, that's less than a million bucks after taxes and he'll probably just stay here for the $12M, that is if he really does want to stay in Chicago. I doubt if any team will be foolish enough to offer him $15M or more but if they do, then it's goodbye Paulie.

BTW, if the Angels pay Konerko $15M, that might piss off Vlad. But if the Angels feel Paulie's worth it, again that's baseball.

The idea of bringing in Furcal is not to piss off Iguchi & Uribe! (I can't believe I have to explain this.) Ozzie has stated that he wants more speed next year. He also has stated he wants to bat Iguchi in the middle of the order next year. Furcal is a pretty good switch hitting top of the order type who is a major base stealing threat and happens to be a free agent. He also happens to play SS very well, so to fit him in, Uribe would have to move. Now I think Uribe is probably even better at SS than Furcal, but he also plays a great 2B. Iguchi, while being a decent second baseman is probably the weakest link defensively in the Sox infield.

The Sox need a DH, so Iguchi can move there while Furcal & Uribe would give the Sox a great defensive middle infield. Sure Uribe and Iguchi might not like being moved, and they may feel Furcal's salary is too high compared to their's but again, that's baseball. KW would have to judge just how much this would upset Uribe and Iguchi and take it into consideration. But Uribe & Iguchi being adults and professionals, I would think they understand how baseball works.

If Furcal gets an offer for more than $8M, I say forget him. But if we can get him for $8M, I'd take him.

Paulie should take $12M per year if he really wants to stay. That is more than a fair offer. No one has offered Paulie anything yet, and you're already saying he won't take $12M. Are you sure you're not his agent?

beck72
11-07-2005, 07:13 PM
I have a hard time believing LAA will invest that much cash and yrs into PK, with the young position players they have.

They need to spend more on pitching. Unless they trade some of their young talent [which they haven't done for the last few years] for pitchers, getting a 1st baseman when they have two very good ones in Erstad and Kotchman doesn't make a lot of sense for LA

DickAllen72
11-07-2005, 07:19 PM
I have a hard time believing LAA will invest that much cash and yrs into PK, with the young position players they have.

They need to spend more on pitching. Unless they trade some of their young talent [which they haven't done for the last few years] for pitchers, getting a 1st baseman when they have two very good ones in Erstad and Kotchman doesn't make a lot of sense for LA

I agree. Although I think the Angels will make a serious run at Konerko, I doubt they'll offer him 15M/yr. as some are suggesting.

If someone offers Paulie $15M/yr., "He Gone!" But if anyone offers him less than $15M, he'd be better off staying with the Sox for $12M, as long as the number of years is the same.

beck72
11-07-2005, 07:23 PM
I agree. Although I think the Angels will make a serious run at Konerko, I doubt they'll offer him 15M/yr. as some are suggesting.

If someone offers Paulie $15M/yr., "He Gone!" But if anyone offers him less than $15M, he'd be better off staying with the Sox for $12M, as long as the number of years is the same.

Few teams are willing or able to offer PK the type of deal he's looking for. The Sox will be in great shape with a 5 yr, $60 mill offer. I don't see any team out west offering that. Only a team like Balt. maybe

soxwon
11-07-2005, 07:50 PM
Soxwon:

If you are being sacractic it needs to be in teal.

If not allow me to clue you in....the Joe Cowley who no hit the Angels is not the Joe Cowley who writes for the Daily Southtown.

:smile:

Lip

yes i know this, i was just goofin off.

MarySwiss
11-07-2005, 09:16 PM
Do you understand anything? The way baseball is structured today, some players get a lot more than they're worth simply because of the situation. Other players get less than they're worth because they're locked up under a multi-year contract.

Konerko getting $12M would be overpaying him, but for the Sox in their current situation it would be worth overpaying him. Now that might piss off some of his teammates who may believe that Paulie is not that much more valuable than they are, but hey, that's baseball. Now if Paulie is offered say $13 or $14M from another team, that's less than a million bucks after taxes and he'll probably just stay here for the $12M, that is if he really does want to stay in Chicago. I doubt if any team will be foolish enough to offer him $15M or more but if they do, then it's goodbye Paulie.

BTW, if the Angels pay Konerko $15M, that might piss off Vlad. But if the Angels feel Paulie's worth it, again that's baseball.

The idea of bringing in Furcal is not to piss off Iguchi & Uribe! (I can't believe I have to explain this.) Ozzie has stated that he wants more speed next year. He also has stated he wants to bat Iguchi in the middle of the order next year. Furcal is a pretty good switch hitting top of the order type who is a major base stealing threat and happens to be a free agent. He also happens to play SS very well, so to fit him in, Uribe would have to move. Now I think Uribe is probably even better at SS than Furcal, but he also plays a great 2B. Iguchi, while being a decent second baseman is probably the weakest link defensively in the Sox infield.

The Sox need a DH, so Iguchi can move there while Furcal & Uribe would give the Sox a great defensive middle infield. Sure Uribe and Iguchi might not like being moved, and they may feel Furcal's salary is too high compared to their's but again, that's baseball. KW would have to judge just how much this would upset Uribe and Iguchi and take it into consideration. But Uribe & Iguchi being adults and professionals, I would think they understand how baseball works.

If Furcal gets an offer for more than $8M, I say forget him. But if we can get him for $8M, I'd take him.

Paulie should take $12M per year if he really wants to stay. That is more than a fair offer. No one has offered Paulie anything yet, and you're already saying he won't take $12M. Are you sure you're not his agent?

Prdon me all to hell, but do YOU understand anything? Such as basic economics? Worth is determined by what the market will bear. If a team offers a player $14M, another team matches it, the first team offers $15M, and no one matches it, then $15M is what he's worth. If a team offers him $2M, and no one matches it, then that or less is what he's worth. It's been reported that the Sox offered Paulie 4/48 for openers. That's $12M per. And that's openers.

As for Furcal, he comes with baggage. Moving Iguchi and Uribe around just to make him nice and comfy doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Are you sure you're not his agent?

Tragg
11-07-2005, 09:31 PM
Prdon me all to hell, but do YOU understand anything? Such as basic economics? Worth is determined by what the market will bear. If a team offers a player $14M, another team matches it, the first team offers $15M, and no one matches it, then $15M is what he's worth.

PRICE is determined by the market; worth is subjective and based on a club's individual view of the player.

I'm with you on Furcal.

MarySwiss
11-07-2005, 09:38 PM
PRICE is determined by the market; worth is subjective and based on a club's individual view of the player.

I'm with you on Furcal.

Nit well picked, Tragg. (Sorry, I was an English major!) But I think my point remains valid. If a team wants to pay a player $15M, that sets the player's price. Another team can match it or not, but if they do, they are not overpaying, based on market value.

Tragg
11-07-2005, 09:52 PM
Nit well picked, Tragg. (Sorry, I was an English major!) But I think my point remains valid. If a team wants to pay a player $15M, that sets the player's price. Another team can match it or not, but if they do, they are not overpaying, based on market value.

The market price, er value?, of Enron stock was $100 at one time.......:wink:

DickAllen72
11-07-2005, 09:52 PM
PRICE is determined by the market; worth is subjective and based on a club's individual view of the player.

Thank you.

I'm with you on Furcal.

The reason I suggested Furcal as a possibility is because Ozzie has said he wants more speed next year and wants to bat Iguchi in the middle of the lineup next year. Furcal is the only free agent I'm aware of that would enable Ozzie to make those moves.

Another option would be to start Willie Harris at 2B, bat him second and let Iguchi DH.

Other than that, I don't see anyone on the Sox roster that would make a good number 2 hitter behind Pods while giving Ozzie the speed and defense he desires.

Another thing Furcal offers is a proven leadoff hitter in the event Pods goes down again. He also gives depth in the IF if either Uribe or Crede go down.

But I also realize the potential downside to bringing in Furcal--I'm the one that brought it up in my original post.

It is only one suggestion--one of many options that may or may not be persued.

DickAllen72
11-07-2005, 10:02 PM
The market price, er value?, of Enron stock was $100 at one time.......:wink:

LOL! Another example: If someone is selling an '89 Dodge Caravan and three bidders are offering in the neighborhood of $600, then one guy offers $5000 for the van because it looks just like the one his father had when he was a kid or some other silly reason, the selling PRICE of the van is $5000. That doesn't mean it's worth five grand, and yes that guy would have overpayed for the vehicle.

DickAllen72
11-07-2005, 10:12 PM
As for Furcal, he comes with baggage. Moving Iguchi and Uribe around just to make him nice and comfy doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Are you sure you're not his agent?

If I were his agent, I'd be saying there's no way he's going to sign for $8M.

And if you read my posts you would know that making him "nice and comfy" are not the reasons Uribe and Iguchi would be moved.

Reasonable people can disagree, but at least disagree with what is actually posted.

Tragg
11-07-2005, 10:14 PM
LOL! Another example: If someone is selling an '89 Dodge Caravan and three bidders are offering in the neighborhood of $600, then one guy offers $5000 for the van because it looks just like the one his father had when he was a kid or some other silly reason, the selling PRICE of the van is $5000. That doesn't mean it's worth five grand, and yes that guy would have overpayed for the vehicle.

Well, I nitpicked Mary, so I'll nitpick you. In that case, he would have overpaid, only because he probably could have gotten it for $700. But to him, the value was $5,000 and to him it's worth $5,000.

I see your point on Furcal. I just think we need a hitter with more pop than Furcal, SS who can hit are usually overpriced IMO, and I liked our infield D last year.