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View Full Version : Let the Delgado speculation begin


TheOldRoman
11-05-2005, 09:46 PM
This article (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2005/11/04/a3c_marlins_1104.html) talks about the Marlins and their struggle to build a new stadium. The Marlins were set back in their efforts by Hurricane Wilma. The hurricane also apparently hurt their efforts to get corporate sponsors and season ticket holders, according to the article.
The storm also could affect the team's payroll for next year. Without solid corporate sponsorship and season-ticket sales, owner Jeffrey Loria almost certainly will drop his payroll parameters from the club-record $65 million he spent in 2005.
I dont know how much their payroll goes up with raises to players under contract, but Carlos Delgado is due to make $13.5 million in 2006, up from $4 million in 05. If they are going to cut payroll, they almost certainly have to get rid of him.
"We have received some direction from Jeffrey and we're going to follow through with some ideas starting next week," said General Manager Larry Beinfest, referring to the GM meetings that begin Monday in Palm Springs, Calif."It's early in the process. We need to talk to some other clubs and do some homework ourselves."

Beinfest pretty much admitts there that trades need to be made, and salary will be dumped. Here are the terms of Delgado's contract:

Delgado receives just $4 million this year but makes $13.5 million in 2006, $14.5 million in 2007 and $16 million in 2008, according to terms obtained by the AP. The agreement includes a $16 million option for 2009 that would become guaranteed based on how Delgado does in MVP voting and whether he earns postseason MVP awards.

I think the Sox have to make a solid effort to re-sign Konerko. If they dont, the press will jump all over them for losing a "fan favorite" and a playoff hero. However, if we can't resign Konerko for a reasonable price, I think we have to get Delgado. He is a better hitter than Konerko, he has comprable power (30 homers in a pitchers park), and he hits more doubles. Most importantly, he bats lefty, and we have needed a lefthanded power hitter for a long time. If we can't retain Paulie, this is the deal to make.

Also, before anyone says "screw him, he didn't want to come here in 04". That is true, he vetoed a trade here in 04. However, he said that he would not accept a trade to any team that wouldn't sign him to an extention. He didn't want to move his family for two months, and then have to settle down somewhere else the year after. He never said he didn't want to play for the Sox specifically.

DickAllen72
11-05-2005, 10:23 PM
I'd love to see the Sox get Delgado to be the primary DH not the first baseman.

If we can sign Konerko for $12M a year plus trade for Delgado and cash, that would be sweet. We should be able to bump the payroll to near $100M anyway.

If we can't sign Paulie, I'd be happy with Ross Gload at 1B and Delgado at DH.

No way do I want Delgado's defense at first base. Paulie does a good job scooping throws from Uribe and Crede. Gload is an excellent defensive first baseman and I believe he can hit .290 in the majors with 15 HR, which we could live with if we had Delgado at DH.

But I doubt we'll get Delgado, so this is all a pipe dream.

munchman33
11-06-2005, 01:06 AM
I'd love to see the Sox get Delgado to be the primary DH not the first baseman.

If we can sign Konerko for $12M a year plus trade for Delgado and cash, that would be sweet. We should be able to bump the payroll to near $100M anyway.

If we can't sign Paulie, I'd be happy with Ross Gload at 1B and Delgado at DH.

No way do I want Delgado's defense at first base. Paulie does a good job scooping throws from Uribe and Crede. Gload is an excellent defensive first baseman and I believe he can hit .290 in the majors with 15 HR, which we could live with if we had Delgado at DH.

But I doubt we'll get Delgado, so this is all a pipe dream.

There isn't money for your scenerio. We'd have to trade one of our starting pitchers to even come close.

Domeshot17
11-06-2005, 01:30 AM
If we can sign Konerko for $12M a year plus trade for Delgado and cash, that would be sweet. We should be able to bump the payroll to near $100M anyway.

Im not sure about 100 mil, but surely the money is there in the low 90s(92-93).

Ive always been a fan of Delgado's bat, but never his glove. I remember this year on an off night, I watched a MArlins Braves game on TBS. Delgado missed a really easy scoop and half attempted a jog to the ball, the runner slipped on the way to second, and had delgado actually ran, he would have got the runner in a run down. Instead, as delgado jogged to the ball, the Runner had time to fall down, grab a hot dog and beer, get change, and mosey into 2nd base. Braves announcers talked about (now granted this meant enduring chip carey) how Delgado needs to start making those plays, because Marlins fans seem upset with his half hussle.

That being said,I do not like delgado on our team. Going into negotiations last year, he would not sign to DH, and would not move to the OF. Delgado is a me first, doesnt hustle player. As little of a fan I am of moving a gold glove OF to first base in Dye, I an even less of a fan of him coming to play first here.

The only difference between him and manny is I think Manny somehow finds a way to be a good team mate.His teams win. Delgado does not seem to be a player that raises the level of his team mates.

TheOldRoman
11-06-2005, 02:03 AM
The only difference between him and manny is I think Manny somehow finds a way to be a good team mate.His teams win. Delgado does not seem to be a player that raises the level of his team mates.
I don't think that is fair to judge. Manny had his monster years in the middle of a $100+ million payroll team. Delgado only spent one years with a decent team. The Jays always sucked with him.

As for the defense, I haven't seen enough of him to tell.

MadetoOrta
11-06-2005, 11:14 AM
I don't think you'll see Paulie AND Delgado. If Anaheim, Boston and NYY get into a bidding war and pay Paulie more than Delgado, KW will look like a genius picking up Delgado. I love Paulie, but he's not the hitter Delgado is.

Vernam
11-06-2005, 11:37 AM
I don't think that is fair to judge. Manny had his monster years in the middle of a $100+ million payroll team. Delgado only spent one years with a decent team. The Jays always sucked with him.I guess we should start making up those "Let Carlos Be Carlos" signs? No thanks. The mere fact that he's comparable to Ramirez as a teammate means I want nothing to do with him.

Given Ozzie's famous edict that all Sox players need to be at attention in the dugout for the national anthem, I don't exactly see Delgado as a good fit here.

Vernam

TheOldRoman
11-06-2005, 12:29 PM
I guess we should start making up those "Let Carlos Be Carlos" signs? No thanks. The mere fact that he's comparable to Ramirez as a teammate means I want nothing to do with him.

Given Ozzie's famous edict that all Sox players need to be at attention in the dugout for the national anthem, I don't exactly see Delgado as a good fit here.

Vernam
:?:
He's not comprable to Ramirez in that manner. One person said it. I hadn't heard that about him from anywhere else, and most people say he is a great person. Peter Gammons talks as if he is the greatest person ever.

MadetoOrta
11-06-2005, 12:54 PM
If by chance we acquire Delgado, don't think for a second that the cubune won't run with the story about how Delgado disrespected America. It may even push the Ligue family and pot smoking to page 2. We also are losing sight of another factor - Ozzie is a hero in the eyes of Latin American ballplayers. They want to play for Ozzie and - I bet - would ascribe to the rules laid down by him. I think Manny would too. I just don't want to be saddled with the contract.

elrod
11-07-2005, 01:04 AM
:?:
He's not comprable to Ramirez in that manner. One person said it. I hadn't heard that about him from anywhere else, and most people say he is a great person. Peter Gammons talks as if he is the greatest person ever.

It goes back to a story that ran right after the Iraq War started when Delgado quietly refused to stand for the National Anthem. Nobody even noticed it, and he never wanted to make a big deal about it until some New York paper mentioned it. He's a Puerto Rican and has been an activist against the Vieques bombing site for years. He obviously opposed the Iraq War then (and I'm sure he does now too, but that doesn't exactly make him controversial anymore). I'm not sure if he still refuses to stand for the National Anthem.

HotelWhiteSox
11-07-2005, 01:14 AM
Not going to happen (coming to the Sox). Please don't expand or give your own views or opinions on the following statement since I don't want this to turn political. One of Ozzie's strict dugout rules (other than come to work and play hard) is lining up for the Anthem every game. I heard about it in many postgame interviews when asked about his loose clubhouse. Delgado also has stated that issue is taken into affect when negotiating (and was with Florida). Not going to happen

TheOldRoman
11-07-2005, 02:29 AM
It goes back to a story that ran right after the Iraq War started when Delgado quietly refused to stand for the National Anthem. Nobody even noticed it, and he never wanted to make a big deal about it until some New York paper mentioned it. He's a Puerto Rican and has been an activist against the Vieques bombing site for years. He obviously opposed the Iraq War then (and I'm sure he does now too, but that doesn't exactly make him controversial anymore). I'm not sure if he still refuses to stand for the National Anthem.
Well, we need to tread lightly because a thread discussing this was sent to the ****house this morning. There was ignorance and stupidity from both sides.
It is not the National Anthem. It is "God Bless America". Delgago doesn't stand during that song because he feels it is being misused as a nationalist war anthem. I couldn't disagree with him more, but he has the right to take that stand. It isn't a question of free speech in general, just what is permissible by MLB. As you said, he did this for his own reasons, not to get attention. In an interview he said, "It isn't that I hate America. I love America. I will say God bless America, God bless Puerto Rico, God Bless the Dominican every day. I just dont think the song should be used for the purposes it is."

He said that he didn't want any problems, and if whatever team he went to asked him to stand for GBA, he would have no problem doing it. This would be a complete non-issue on the Sox.

TheOldRoman
11-07-2005, 02:34 AM
Not going to happen (coming to the Sox). Please don't expand or give your own views or opinions on the following statement since I don't want this to turn political. One of Ozzie's strict dugout rules (other than come to work and play hard) is lining up for the Anthem every game. I heard about it in many postgame interviews when asked about his loose clubhouse. Delgado also has stated that issue is taken into affect when negotiating (and was with Florida). Not going to happen
First of all, he doesn't stand for "God Bless America", not the anthem.
I don't know where you heard that report. As I said in the above post, I heard an interview in which he said his decision to stand or not would not be an issue with whatever team he picked. He said that he didn't want problems, and if the team required him to stand for it, he would have no problem doing so.
This would not be an issue on the Sox.

antitwins13
11-07-2005, 02:38 AM
There isn't money for your scenerio. We'd have to trade one of our starting pitchers to even come close.


I'm not so sure I wanna see starting pitchers leave. If we start giving up pitching/defense up for more power then we have obviously learned nothing from this year's squad.

34 Inch Stick
11-07-2005, 11:47 AM
Not going to happen (coming to the Sox). Please don't expand or give your own views or opinions on the following statement since I don't want this to turn political. One of Ozzie's strict dugout rules (other than come to work and play hard) is lining up for the Anthem every game. I heard about it in many postgame interviews when asked about his loose clubhouse. Delgado also has stated that issue is taken into affect when negotiating (and was with Florida). Not going to happen

I think you could make a clear distinction between someone not standing at attention out of apathy and one who did not stand at attention as a political statement.

Randar68
11-07-2005, 11:49 AM
There isn't money for your scenerio. We'd have to trade one of our starting pitchers to even come close.


Wrong, wrong, wrong.

D. TODD
11-07-2005, 02:05 PM
Del Gado and Ozzie would get along just fine. As a few have stated it is the playing of "God Bless America" during the seventh inning that Del Gado does not participate in due to his belief that this is in support of the U.S. going to war with Iraq . He has said nothing negative about the U.S. as a whole, and he stands for the national antham every game.

HotelWhiteSox
11-08-2005, 12:16 AM
Well, I heard it was the National Anthem that was the issue straight from him in an interview before last season on ESPNEWS. They asked him if it came to play in discussions and he said that it did, that his stance wouldn't change on it, and that he'd simply go in the dugout while it was being talked about, and he seemed to get a little testy about it and wouldn't answer anything else on the subject.

Maybe some thing changed since then, and then I say my fault, but that's what I heard before last season, which is why I brought up why it would be an issue with Ozzie

EDIT: While looking it up, I found discussions relating to him having issues to God Bless America, but I could've sworn in the interview they said the anthem, but I guess I heard wrong or forgot about it since then, so I jus, apologi

KRS1
11-08-2005, 12:28 AM
Just a quick question. What is the fascination with a 33-year old 1st baseman who currently is making most likely more than we will have to pay a 30-year old Paulie. Here's food for thought, when Delgado's deal is over he will be damn near 36. Why would we pay him almost 15 mil., and not give Kong his 12 when he's 32 that same year? Sure we may want to make room for younger guys sooner and don't wanna pick up a five year deal for a guy who has been pretty inconsistent, but my moneys on Paul to have a better 3 years compared to Carlos.

santo=dorf
11-08-2005, 12:50 AM
my moneys on Paul to have a better 3 years compared to Carlos.
What is that based on? Take a look at who has had the better career so far. That's why I'll take Delgado over Paulie.

PS: is your user name after the rapper?

KRS1
11-08-2005, 12:57 AM
What is that based on? Take a look at who has had the better career so far. That's why I'll take Delgado over Paulie.

PS: is your user name after the rapper?

Well, I base it on the fact that one is getting in the last quarter of his career, and one is pretty much in the middle of it. Also, Delgado hasn't gone a full season healthy in what, 2 and a half seasons. Please don't give me a Jermaine Dye comeback for this statement.
Secondly, yes it is after the original BS of MC.

Randar68
11-08-2005, 11:40 AM
Well, I base it on the fact that one is getting in the last quarter of his career, and one is pretty much in the middle of it. Also, Delgado hasn't gone a full season healthy in what, 2 and a half seasons. Please don't give me a Jermaine Dye comeback for this statement.
Secondly, yes it is after the original BS of MC.
*** are you talking about?

Here are the number of games played by Carlos Delgado since 2000:
2000: 162
2001: 162
2002: 143
2003: 161
2004: 128
2005: 144

Only time he's missed was a few weeks in 2004. You'll be hard-pressed to find a player as durable as Carlos Delgado anywhere. Plus, considering him being in the AL should we trade for him and have him DH part of the time... all the better.

Paul Konerko wishes he was a fraction of the hitter Carlos Delgado is.

maurice
11-08-2005, 04:20 PM
Just a quick question. What is the fascination with a 33-year old 1st baseman who currently is making most likely more than we will have to pay a 30-year old Paulie.

First, Delgado > Konerko. Second, based on what we're hearing, Delgado's 2006 salary will be about the same as Konerko's 2006 salary.

Here's food for thought, when Delgado's deal is over he will be damn near 36.

And when Konerko's 5-year deal is over, he'll be damn near 35. Plus, Delgado is a better and more consistent hitter.

my moneys on Paul to have a better 3 years compared to Carlos.

Based on age alone? Given his huge advantages, Delgado has a long way to fall to come close to Konerko. What's the easiest way for me to illustrate this? How about:
- Delgado has 8 full seasons with an OPS over .900, including this year's .988
- Konerko has only 1 full season with an OPS over .900 -- this year's .909
- Delgado has 2 full seasons with an OPS over 1.000
- Konerko has none and probably never will
- Delgado has knocked in 90+ runs 10 times, including 115 this year
- Konerko has knocked in 90+ runs 5 times, including 100 this year
- Delgado has knocked in 100+ runs 7 times
- Konerko has knocked in 100+ runs 3 times
- Delgado has knocked in 130+ runs 3 times, including 145 as recently as 2003
- Konerko has never come close to 130 RBI
- Delgado has scored 100+ runs 5 times
- Konerko has never scored 100 runs
Also, there's no sign that he's getting worse. Delgado's 2005 is better than his 2004 and better than Konerko's best years. Move Delgado to Coors East, and he's likely to improve.

SouthSoxFan
11-08-2005, 04:36 PM
But you cannot just compare Delgado to Konerko straight up and say the former is a better choice. To get Delgado, we'll have to pay the cash, and give up players; Konerko just costs us $.

Randar68
11-08-2005, 05:16 PM
But you cannot just compare Delgado to Konerko straight up and say the former is a better choice. To get Delgado, we'll have to pay the cash, and give up players; Konerko just costs us $.

How much cash and how many players? That's always the question. Florida will have to eat part of that salary to deal him and it is a shorter-term deal than what we're talking about giving Pauly. Plus, as noted, Delgado is a far superior hitter.

Hell, I'd just as soon have Delgado DH as the #3 hitter and Pauly hit #4 as just about any other option out there.

We need a #3 hitter at least as bad as we need a #4 hitter, if not worse.

maurice
11-08-2005, 06:01 PM
But you cannot just compare Delgado to Konerko straight up and say the former is a better choice. To get Delgado, we'll have to pay the cash, and give up players; Konerko just costs us $.

Yes, but I think that KW is going to move players anyway. Besides, trading MLB players from the Sox frees up additonal payroll space to help add a DH and a lefty reliever. For example, if you offer Konerko arb. and he walks, and also trade a package including Rowand and Marte to the Fish, you could get Delgado, $$$, high draft picks, and maybe other players in return while potentially reducing your payroll commitments for 2006. That works for me.

Aside: At this point, Randar and I have had this exact same conversation with about 12 different posters in 12 different thrreads. We probably should just start replying with links to older threads.

Paulwny
11-08-2005, 06:51 PM
Aside: At this point, Randar and I have had this exact same conversation with about 12 different posters in 12 different thrreads. We probably should just start replying with links to older threads.

Too many people read the first page in a thread, skip the next few pages and then read the last page. Many have mentioned that they didn't read all the pages in a thread that was long. Not a bad idea with the links, but then I'd miss out picturing you and Randar banging your heads against a wall. :D:

Ol' No. 2
11-08-2005, 06:59 PM
Yes, but I think that KW is going to move players anyway. Besides, trading MLB players from the Sox frees up additonal payroll space to help add a DH and a lefty reliever. For example, if you offer Konerko arb. and he walks, and also trade a package including Rowand and Marte to the Fish, you could get Delgado, $$$, high draft picks, and maybe other players in return while potentially reducing your payroll commitments for 2006. That works for me.

Aside: At this point, Randar and I have had this exact same conversation with about 12 different posters in 12 different thrreads. We probably should just start replying with links to older threads.The big complication in all this is Frank Thomas. If he's re-signed and he's able to play, obviously there's no need for both Konerko and Delgado. They'd probably need a part-time DH, because at best, FT is not going to be able to play every day, but Delgado would be too expensive for that role. Kenny is going to have to roll the dice one way or the other.

Paulwny
11-08-2005, 07:50 PM
The big complication in all this is Frank Thomas. If he's re-signed and he's able to play, obviously there's no need for both Konerko and Delgado. They'd probably need a part-time DH, because at best, FT is not going to be able to play every day, but Delgado would be too expensive for that role. Kenny is going to have to roll the dice one way or the other.

I think PK is the complication, everything hinges on him, which holes are needed to fill, which players to sign, the amnt. of money and type of contract to offer Frank and trades for players. I won't be surprized to hear that this offer to PK is the only offer from the sox. KW doesn't have time to sit and wait while PK mulls over offers.

MadetoOrta
11-08-2005, 09:50 PM
Delgado is a natural born hitter. Julio ^#$@* Franco is still hitting the crap out of the ball at the "stated" age of 40. He's got to be 44+. Don't even compare PK to Delgado. Finally, Florida wants his contract off the books.

Randar68
11-09-2005, 12:58 AM
The big complication in all this is Frank Thomas. If he's re-signed and he's able to play, obviously there's no need for both Konerko and Delgado. They'd probably need a part-time DH, because at best, FT is not going to be able to play every day, but Delgado would be too expensive for that role. Kenny is going to have to roll the dice one way or the other.

While I agree that complicates things, I don't think you pass on Delgado to have "the possibility of Frank playing some games at some time for you in 2006"

That being said, it also highlights why signing a Brian Giles or Matsui would be perhaps a better option. Either of those guys can play several OF positions or DH if Frank is not healthy. It is a built-in fall-back plan.

You can't count on Frank for anything and I don't think you can make decisions on personnel elsewhere on the team based on his currently unknown status. His real status won't be known until he plays in a few games, and that is a LONG way off, no?

mdep524
11-09-2005, 01:55 AM
While I agree that complicates things, I don't think you pass on Delgado to have "the possibility of Frank playing some games at some time for you in 2006"

That being said, it also highlights why signing a Brian Giles or Matsui would be perhaps a better option. Either of those guys can play several OF positions or DH if Frank is not healthy. It is a built-in fall-back plan.

You can't count on Frank for anything and I don't think you can make decisions on personnel elsewhere on the team based on his currently unknown status. His real status won't be known until he plays in a few games, and that is a LONG way off, no? I agree, and more and more I am liking the possibility of bring in Matsui to replicate the June-July '05 Sox, with Matsui in place of Everett. Frank can't be counted on the play every day, though I would like to see what he can do if healthy. Pods, Rowand/Anderson, Dye, Thomas, Matsui and even possibly Konerko (if Frank or Dye could play 1B) could go in one giant rotation where everyone gets a day off every 5-6 days, or depending on slumps/streaks and match ups. If one guy goes down (most likely Thomas but it could be anyone), you don't really lose a beat at all.

This also saves you from trading any prospects and makes Rowand or Anderson expendable in a trade elsewhere if a need arises.

Flight #24
11-09-2005, 02:18 AM
While I agree that complicates things, I don't think you pass on Delgado to have "the possibility of Frank playing some games at some time for you in 2006"

That being said, it also highlights why signing a Brian Giles or Matsui would be perhaps a better option. Either of those guys can play several OF positions or DH if Frank is not healthy. It is a built-in fall-back plan.

You can't count on Frank for anything and I don't think you can make decisions on personnel elsewhere on the team based on his currently unknown status. His real status won't be known until he plays in a few games, and that is a LONG way off, no?

Which IMO raises the question of exactly how much talent you'd need to trade to get Jim Thome to fit into the budget. If you could do Rowand for Thome+cash to make him say $8M/yr, then you have a Thome/Konerko duo (Anderson in CF), and then when Frank's back, you go to a rotation of the 3 players between 1B & DH. Alternately, you do a similar Griffey deal and DH him (to maximize the chances he's healthy). That lets you run a mega-rotation of Frank-Griff-Konerko-OF giving each guy one day off once a week and shifting Griffey to the OF 3x/week.

Ol' No. 2
11-09-2005, 11:56 AM
While I agree that complicates things, I don't think you pass on Delgado to have "the possibility of Frank playing some games at some time for you in 2006"

That being said, it also highlights why signing a Brian Giles or Matsui would be perhaps a better option. Either of those guys can play several OF positions or DH if Frank is not healthy. It is a built-in fall-back plan.

You can't count on Frank for anything and I don't think you can make decisions on personnel elsewhere on the team based on his currently unknown status. His real status won't be known until he plays in a few games, and that is a LONG way off, no?I think that's where this inevitably leads. If they re-sign PK, then if you're looking for a guy to backup Frank, maybe it makes more sense to go after an OF/DH than a 1B/DH.

mjmcend
11-09-2005, 12:02 PM
Interesting.

The Marlins refused to comment yesterday after Carlos Delgado called a press conference to express his displeasure with trade rumors.
"I don't want to be traded. I want to be a Marlin, and I want be in Florida and have a chance to win," Delgado said. "That was my position a year ago, and that's still my position today." Delgado is owed $48 million over the next three years because his four-year, $52 million contract was so backloaded, but the Marlins still might be able to find a taker for him. He doesn't have even a limited no-trade clause with which to block a deal. Nov. 9 - 4:26 am et
Source: Miami Herald (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/13119331.htm)