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ViPeRx007
11-05-2005, 05:27 PM
I was just wondering if anyone has access to ESPN Insider and might be able to post a summary of this article:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2213880&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2***b %2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dneyer_rob%26id%3d 2213880

I'm just interested in what it says. The subtitle of it reads as follows:

"This year's Gold Glove choices prove once again that the voters are either lazy or willfully ignorant." (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2213880)

Daver
11-05-2005, 05:30 PM
I was just wondering if anyone has access to ESPN Insider and might be able to post the whole of this article:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2213880&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2***b %2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dneyer_rob%26id%3d 2213880

I'm interested in what it says. The subtitle of it reads as follows:

"This year's Gold Glove choices prove once again that the voters are either lazy or willfully ignorant." (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=neyer_rob&id=2213880)




No.

No one can post the entire article because that is what is called copyright infringement, and can get us sued.

ViPeRx007
11-05-2005, 05:33 PM
Well, nevermind then.

Possibly someone could give a summary of it then, or something.

cbrownson13
11-05-2005, 05:35 PM
It basically states that there were some poor choices for gold gloves. Uses stats in his defense. He said that Uribe, Buehrle, Crede, and Rowand, got snubbed. I'll post the blip about the Sox...

Neyer: I've received a few e-mail messages referencing Baseball Prospectus and Derek Jeter, so I did some digging. And if there's a sabermetric consensus regarding Jeter's defense, it most certainly is not that he's an outstanding fielder. BP's Clay Davenport recently described Jeter as "solidly above average," and the closest Davenport came to endorsing Jeter was when he wrote that he'd choose Jeter over Orlando Cabrera (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5900) (who didn't have a particularly good season).

A Gold Glover isn't supposed to be "solidly above average," and anyway, that's just one method (the difference in fielding runs between the starter and his replacement). There are others. I've collected FRAR, win shares (which measures each player's contribution to his team's wins), and ultimate zone ratings (credits fielders for outs made) for every major leaguer who played at least 1,000 innings at shortstop in 2005. Below are where some of the top Gold Glove candidates ranked in each category:



WS UZR FRAR Juan Uribe (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6698) 1 2 2 Jhonny Peralta (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7156) 2 5 1 Orlando Cabrera 3 3 3 Miguel Tejada (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5888) 5 1 6 Derek Jeter 4 9 4 Juan Uribe is the obvious winner here. Considering that the White Sox were the biggest story in the American League, and that the key to their success was run prevention, you'd think the Gold Glove voters would have considered the possibility that maybe, just maybe, the fielders had something to do with all those low ERAs.

Nope. No love for Juan Uribe, or Aaron Rowand (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6742), or Joe Crede (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6411), not even for Mark Buehrle (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6525). Maybe next year. Meanwhile, here are the National Leaguers:

ViPeRx007
11-05-2005, 05:36 PM
Thanks, that's all I was really looking for. I was curious if they mentioned any White Sox players.

NWSox
11-05-2005, 07:27 PM
The Gold Glove award is a joke. Just a popularity contest. Someone like Rowand may or may not have deserved to win, but to have people like Jeter and Maddux keep getting the award shows how no one is really paying attention.

nccwsfan
11-06-2005, 12:25 AM
The Gold Glove award is a joke. Just a popularity contest. Someone like Rowand may or may not have deserved to win, but to have people like Jeter and Maddux keep getting the award shows how no one is really paying attention.

The good news is that the White Sox players, thanks to their championship run, now at least have the eye of the national media. Crede and Rowand will get their Gold Gloves in short time, you watch...

ChiSoxRowand
11-06-2005, 01:05 AM
That is a good article. He said Uribe should have won a gold glove. He also rips Jeter.

Norberto7
11-06-2005, 01:27 AM
Juan Uribe's glove easily won five games for the White Sox this year they would have lost with an average shortstop.

DSpivack
11-06-2005, 03:36 AM
Who needs a gold glove when, in a few months time, you'll have a gold Ring?

kjhanson
11-06-2005, 04:16 AM
No.

No one can post the entire article because that is what is called copyright infringement, and can get us sued.

Actually Daver, being a patent lawyer myself, I can legally state that this is not an infringement whatsoever. The most basic right that any one person posesses is thought. Once thought is made public (i.e. ESPN Insider), it can be copied, disseminated, and displayed on any public forum as long as due credit is given.

johnny_mostil
11-06-2005, 01:47 PM
Actually Daver, being a patent lawyer myself, I can legally state that this is not an infringement whatsoever. The most basic right that any one person posesses is thought. Once thought is made public (i.e. ESPN Insider), it can be copied, disseminated, and displayed on any public forum as long as due credit is given.

Hey, Daver, is that an offer for pro bono representation? Does he get a special avatar? :smile:

Deuce
11-06-2005, 03:09 PM
Actually Daver, being a patent lawyer myself, I can legally state that this is not an infringement whatsoever. The most basic right that any one person posesses is thought. Once thought is made public (i.e. ESPN Insider), it can be copied, disseminated, and displayed on any public forum as long as due credit is given.
Yeah, but ESPN insider isn't free, and transferring the article so to overt the pay process could be viewed as an infringement. I'm not a patent lawyer though, so I'm just guessing here.

Daver
11-06-2005, 03:24 PM
Actually Daver, being a patent lawyer myself, I can legally state that this is not an infringement whatsoever. The most basic right that any one person posesses is thought. Once thought is made public (i.e. ESPN Insider), it can be copied, disseminated, and displayed on any public forum as long as due credit is given.

Perhaps you should explain this to the Tribune, who threatened to sue us because of articles from their paper being reprinted here.

WestSox
11-06-2005, 03:42 PM
Perhaps you should explain this to the Tribune, who threatened to sue us because of articles from their paper being reprinted here.

I'm absolutely shocked that the Tribune would threaten WSI with legal action. :rolleyes:

ChiSoxRowand
11-06-2005, 06:45 PM
Perhaps you should explain this to the Tribune, who threatened to sue us because of articles from their paper being reprinted here.

Don't you have to pay to use the Tribune's website?

kjhanson
11-06-2005, 06:51 PM
Perhaps you should explain this to the Tribune, who threatened to sue us because of articles from their paper being reprinted here.

I'd be happier to explain to them that they indeed are the ones breaking the law by blackmailing you. I would assume the Tribune has a nice vendetta against all things WSI, considering all the nice things we say about them. Nonetheless, I respect the fact that you have the best interests of WSI in mind and would not jeopardize the continued success of it.

Daver
11-06-2005, 07:25 PM
I'd be happier to explain to them that they indeed are the ones breaking the law by blackmailing you. I would assume the Tribune has a nice vendetta against all things WSI, considering all the nice things we say about them. Nonetheless, I respect the fact that you have the best interests of WSI in mind and would not jeopardize the continued success of it.

Aside from the copyright thing, the Trib actually likes us, or at least their reporters do, I have helped out a few of them on various projects, one of which resulted in Wilkes getting on TV.

We have spent a lot of time and effort making WSI what it is today, the less hassles we have top deal with the better.