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View Full Version : Here's a *teal* wild *teal* idea.


RallyBowl
11-05-2005, 05:45 PM
How about this. In an effort to return to and win the World Series next year, I think we should

a.) Trade no one
b.) Add no one via free angency

Is this the craziest idea yet? Crazier than trading Freddy or trading for Adam Dunn? Crazier than adding Durazo or Lawton? You tell me. I think not. There is nothing wrong with dancin' with the ones who brung ya (see 2005 trade deadline). I want to see every single one of those guys here next year. Yes, I'm talking about you too, Damaso and Willie. Now I realize this may not be possible with the status of guys like Paulie and Frank, but I refuse to speculate on who replacements would or should be until it becomes necessary to actually replace someone. Also, I believe that with the exception of catcher, we have backups who are more than capable of stepping up at any positon already in place in our minor league system. And we don't need another catcher. I realize that you can't take steps forward if you're standing still. But bringing back everyone we can to keep this team intact would hardly be a bad thing, especially if you have in- house guys that are ready if someone gets injured, or is just plain suckin' it up on the field.
Thoughts?

Chisox003
11-05-2005, 05:47 PM
How about this. In an effort to return to and win the World Series next year, I think we should

a.) Trade no one
b.) Add no one via free angency

Is this the craziest idea yet? Crazier than trading Freddy or trading for Adam Dunn? Crazier than adding Durazo or Lawton? You tell me. I think not. There is nothing wrong with dancin' with the ones who brung ya (see 2005 trade deadline). I want to see every single one of those guys here next year. Yes, I'm talking about you too, Damaso and Willie. Now I realize this may not be possible with the status of guys like Paulie and Frank, but I refuse to speculate on who replacements would or should be until it becomes necessary to actually replace someone. Also, I believe that with the exception of catcher, we have backups who are more than capable of stepping up at any positon already in place in our minor league system. And we don't need another catcher. I realize that you can't take steps forward if you're standing still. But bringing back everyone we can to keep this team intact would hardly be a bad thing, especially if you have in- house guys that are ready if someone gets injured, or is just plain suckin' it up on the field.
Thoughts?
:nod:

:cheers:

MarySwiss
11-05-2005, 05:55 PM
I like the way you think, probably because it's just like the way I think! :yup:

MRKARNO
11-05-2005, 06:00 PM
Ask the 2003 Angels how that turned out for them. They're the best recent comparison because they had just about the same team under contract and they took their lumps.

Besides, if we have a lot more money to spend, why not make the team even better? If we could keep the pitching staff intact AND improve the offense, which definitely has room for improvement, why not do so?

kevin57
11-05-2005, 06:02 PM
Your proposal has merit (don't mess with it if it ain't broke), but I think most Sox fans are assuming that Konerko or Thomas or someone else maybe because of arbitration will not figure into the scheme of things next year. Once one domino falls, that starts a string of speculation.

Chisox003
11-05-2005, 06:03 PM
Ask the 2003 Angels how that turned out for them.
The 2003 Angels pitching doesn't even compare to the 2006 White Sox pitching (if kept intact).

Mark'sBrokenFoot
11-05-2005, 06:20 PM
How about this. In an effort to return to and win the World Series next year, I think we should

a.) Trade no one
b.) Add no one via free angency



Fine by me. Let Borchard keep the DH spot warm for Frank until such time as he is completely healthy, then let him rest Frank regularly to get his at bats and keep Frank from breaking another ankle. If LTP truly did "figure it out" last year I'd like to know about it before we let him walk. He could be our dh for years to come if he could just manage a .250 batting average to go along with all the power.

MRKARNO
11-05-2005, 06:25 PM
The 2003 Angels pitching doesn't even compare to the 2006 White Sox pitching (if kept intact).

After looking into it a bit more, I think there are some clear dissimilarities between the 2005-2006 White Sox and 2002-2003 Angels, but here's my view:

1. We have up to 15 million more to spend

2. Our pitchers may not all have good years again next year

3. The offense has plenty of room for improvement

4. We could do a lot to improve our chances for repeating by beefing up the offense with the extra money we have

5. We should make sure that key defensive players stay, except when they are replaceable, as in the case of Aaron Rowand. Crede and Uribe, on the other hand, must stay.

6. Paul Konerko is one of the worst, if not the single worst values on the market right now and we'd do better to trade for Delgado, Helton or Thome, the latter two if they threw in money

7. We should not act like a mid market team any more and we should have very few rookies playing on the club next year (Anderson excepted and maybe a few bullpen arms)

Chicken Dinner
11-05-2005, 07:01 PM
Fine by me. Let Borchard keep the DH spot warm for Frank until such time as he is completely healthy, then let him rest Frank regularly to get his at bats and keep Frank from breaking another ankle. If LTP truly did "figure it out" last year I'd like to know about it before we let him walk. He could be our dh for years to come if he could just manage a .250 batting average to go along with all the power.

Borchard can't hit. Is your memory that bad. He gone!

RallyBowl
11-05-2005, 07:19 PM
Fine by me. Let Borchard keep the DH spot warm for Frank until such time as he is completely healthy, then let him rest Frank regularly to get his at bats and keep Frank from breaking another ankle. If LTP truly did "figure it out" last year I'd like to know about it before we let him walk. He could be our dh for years to come if he could just manage a .250 batting average to go along with all the power.

I really didn't mean Joe Borchard, but ok.:D:

MadetoOrta
11-05-2005, 08:35 PM
It's not such a wild idea. I also hope we don't make the mistake of '59 - trading away our best young talent. Joe Crede, should he remain healthy, may emerge as a #3 hitter. Sounds crazy but after Game 2 of the ALCS, I had many WSI'rs echoing that sentiment. LEAVE OUR PITCHING ALONE!!!!!!

MarySwiss
11-05-2005, 08:43 PM
After looking into it a bit more, I think there are some clear dissimilarities between the 2005-2006 White Sox and 2002-2003 Angels, but here's my view:

1. We have up to 15 million more to spend

2. Our pitchers may not all have good years again next year

3. The offense has plenty of room for improvement

4. We could do a lot to improve our chances for repeating by beefing up the offense with the extra money we have

5. We should make sure that key defensive players stay, except when they are replaceable, as in the case of Aaron Rowand. Crede and Uribe, on the other hand, must stay.

6. Paul Konerko is one of the worst, if not the single worst values on the market right now and we'd do better to trade for Delgado, Helton or Thome, the latter two if they threw in money

7. We should not act like a mid market team any more and we should have very few rookies playing on the club next year (Anderson excepted and maybe a few bullpen arms)

Whoops, sorry to disagree on a number of points, but.

1. True, but let's not just piss it away.

2. Then again, they might. And with Mc Carthy joining the rotation, the staff may well be better.

3. True, but tinkering with it could also make it worse.

4. See above.

5. This is a matter of opinion.

6. See above.

7. This major-market team just won the World Series with a mid-market payroll.

Bottom Line: I wouldn't change anything unless and until we absolutely have to.

MRKARNO
11-05-2005, 11:36 PM
Whoops, sorry to disagree on a number of points, but.

1. True, but let's not just piss it away.

2. Then again, they might. And with Mc Carthy joining the rotation, the staff may well be better.

3. True, but tinkering with it could also make it worse.

4. See above.

5. This is a matter of opinion.

6. See above.

7. This major-market team just won the World Series with a mid-market payroll.

Bottom Line: I wouldn't change anything unless and until we absolutely have to.

I think it all comes down to the Konerko question. I say it's not a wise idea to pay much more than the 4/48 that they offered to him and it would be silly to add more years and more money when 4/48 is the upper limit of his worth, in my mind. 5/70 with a no trade clause, which he just may get, would be terrible for the team that pays that much money.

9 players hit 40+ HRs in 2005: Manny, Ortiz, Jones, Dunn, Lee, Pujols, Teixeira, A-Rod and Konerko. Of them, Konerko had the fewest extra base hits, by a fair margin, had the fewest RBIs, had the fewest total bases, had the lowest slugging percentage and the lowest OPS. I like Konerko a lot, but he's not an elite hitter. He's a very good hitter, but he's not among the very best in the game.

If you put a Delgado or Helton at US Cellular Field for 1/2 their games, you'd see far better numbers than Konerko has been able to put up IMO. Colorado might actually give us money for Helton, and Delgado is attainable and the best deal, despite the big numbers due in a few years and his older age.

If you work under that premise, Konerko has to go and you have to go out for a player of Delgado's calibur to anchor the three hole for the next 3 years or so. Players like that do not come for free; you have to give up some talent.

Also, we could use a solid DH in 2006. We got by without a solid one in 2005, with the exception of the 1.5 months of Thomas. To get a more competent DH than Everett should not be so difficult, even if it means a Gload/Thomas platoon.

Sometimes you need to change to stay at the same level and I feel the 2006 White Sox needs some tweaks to come close to attaining the level of success of the 2005 White Sox. An improved DH/1B combo would be a great way to put this team on the right path.

HotelWhiteSox
11-06-2005, 12:39 AM
I disagree with adding noone via FA. Besides Frank, this team was real fortunate injury wise, you need insurance policies

Ol' No. 2
11-06-2005, 12:42 AM
Rest assured, the Indians will not be standing pat. If you want to stay ahead of them, you'd better not be either.

SOXintheBURGH
11-06-2005, 12:44 AM
:bong:


Yeah man.. Rock...

:smokin:

MRKARNO
11-06-2005, 12:49 AM
Rest assured, the Indians will not be standing pat. If you want to stay ahead of them, you'd better not be either.
:yup: Agreed.

MarySwiss
11-06-2005, 12:54 AM
I think it all comes down to the Konerko question. I say it's not a wise idea to pay much more than the 4/48 that they offered to him and it would be silly to add more years and more money when 4/48 is the upper limit of his worth, in my mind. 5/70 with a no trade clause, which he just may get, would be terrible for the team that pays that much money.

9 players hit 40+ HRs in 2005: Manny, Ortiz, Jones, Dunn, Lee, Pujols, Teixeira, A-Rod and Konerko. Of them, Konerko had the fewest extra base hits, by a fair margin, had the fewest RBIs, had the fewest total bases, had the lowest slugging percentage and the lowest OPS. I like Konerko a lot, but he's not an elite hitter. He's a very good hitter, but he's not among the very best in the game.

If you put a Delgado or Helton at US Cellular Field for 1/2 their games, you'd see far better numbers than Konerko has been able to put up IMO. Colorado might actually give us money for Helton, and Delgado is attainable and the best deal, despite the big numbers due in a few years and his older age.

If you work under that premise, Konerko has to go and you have to go out for a player of Delgado's calibur to anchor the three hole for the next 3 years or so. Players like that do not come for free; you have to give up some talent.

Also, we could use a solid DH in 2006. We got by without a solid one in 2005, with the exception of the 1.5 months of Thomas. To get a more competent DH than Everett should not be so difficult, even if it means a Gload/Thomas platoon.

Sometimes you need to change to stay at the same level and I feel the 2006 White Sox needs some tweaks to come close to attaining the level of success of the 2005 White Sox. An improved DH/1B combo would be a great way to put this team on the right path.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Never been a fan of Helton or Delgado. Also, I've played team sports (volleyball, softball, basketball) my whole life, and I'm a big believer in the powers of teamwork, momentum, and intangibles. And I think it's way too early to "tweak" the Sox. After all, almost nobody picked them to finish anywhere higher than 3rd in the AL Central, and some said 4th. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I think Thomas at DH and Konerko at 1st is the way to go. Anyway, time will tell.

nccwsfan
11-06-2005, 01:07 AM
It's a good thought, but lost in all this is that KW and the CWS brass need to think about 2007 and beyond as well. Keeping the entire team together and spending the extra money is all well and good, but what about the Free Agents after 2006? 2007?

What's more important for the long term, signing Konerko to a long term deal or locking up the pitching rotation beyond 2007? Contreras and Garland are unrestricted FA's after 2006, and Buehrle/Garcia after 2007. I'd rather try and lock up at least two of these guys beyond that time, hopefully three.

It's the nature of the game to move players in and out. I have full faith that KW will do what's right for the good of the team long term...

Ol' No. 2
11-06-2005, 01:12 AM
It's a good thought, but lost in all this is that KW and the CWS brass need to think about 2007 and beyond as well. Keeping the entire team together and spending the extra money is all well and good, but what about the Free Agents after 2006? 2007?

What's more important for the long term, signing Konerko to a long term deal or locking up the pitching rotation beyond 2007? Contreras and Garland are unrestricted FA's after 2006, and Buehrle/Garcia after 2007. I'd rather try and lock up at least two of these guys beyond that time, hopefully three.

It's the nature of the game to move players in and out. I have full faith that KW will do what's right for the good of the team long term...You also have Dye and Hernandez (assuming he's still on the roster) coming off the payroll after 2006. That's $10M/yr.

DenverSock
11-06-2005, 01:44 AM
I have said this before but I'll say it again. Dump Marte and Vizcaino. McCarthy can be a starter. El Duque can go to Middle Relief. Get two new pitchers. Hope we can re-sign Pk otherwise there's no hope you can keep the team intact. We need a slightly better offense to make it a surer thing that we'll contend again. It's tough to do it two years in a row, witness the Commie sox.:wink:

TornLabrum
11-06-2005, 03:45 AM
Rest assured, the Indians will not be standing pat. If you want to stay ahead of them, you'd better not be either.

He who stands pat usually gets caught flat-footed.

pudge
11-06-2005, 03:49 AM
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Never been a fan of Helton or Delgado. Also, I've played team sports (volleyball, softball, basketball) my whole life, and I'm a big believer in the powers of teamwork, momentum, and intangibles. And I think it's way too early to "tweak" the Sox. After all, almost nobody picked them to finish anywhere higher than 3rd in the AL Central, and some said 4th. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I think Thomas at DH and Konerko at 1st is the way to go. Anyway, time will tell.

None of that really matters a damn if the pitching doesn't do what it did. You can swap Konerko and Thomas for Delgado and Helton and we probably still win the World Series in '05.

DSpivack
11-06-2005, 04:10 AM
None of that really matters a damn if the pitching doesn't do what it did. You can swap Konerko and Thomas for Delgado and Helton and we probably still win the World Series in '05.

You could, but would we win the series with Thomas and Konerko? Yes, we won it sans Big Hurt, but we also don't have Everett next year. Someone suggested a Frank/Gload platoon. Now, I think we win the series swapping Everett for Gload, our pitchers were that good.

But do you *really* want to rely on an AAAA lefty with no power and an aging, future HOF veteran whose health is very questionable? I certainly don't. I haven't mentioned using 4 OFs with DH; adding Brian Anderson to that mix. That could work, but BA is very much an unknown right now.

Besides Thomas, we really didn't have any major injuries this year. I don't think we'll be that lucky next year. I'll be ecstatic if we are, but I'm not expecting it.

That said, we should have the best starting rotation in baseball and one of the best pens, so in my mind we're still favorites.

CHEESESOXER
11-06-2005, 08:14 PM
How about this. In an effort to return to and win the World Series next year, I think we should

a.) Trade no one
b.) Add no one via free angency

Is this the craziest idea yet? Crazier than trading Freddy or trading for Adam Dunn? Crazier than adding Durazo or Lawton? You tell me. I think not. There is nothing wrong with dancin' with the ones who brung ya (see 2005 trade deadline). I want to see every single one of those guys here next year. Yes, I'm talking about you too, Damaso and Willie. Now I realize this may not be possible with the status of guys like Paulie and Frank, but I refuse to speculate on who replacements would or should be until it becomes necessary to actually replace someone. Also, I believe that with the exception of catcher, we have backups who are more than capable of stepping up at any positon already in place in our minor league system. And we don't need another catcher. I realize that you can't take steps forward if you're standing still. But bringing back everyone we can to keep this team intact would hardly be a bad thing, especially if you have in- house guys that are ready if someone gets injured, or is just plain suckin' it up on the field.
Thoughts?

You are a candidate for Dunning.

Why?

Because I think like that and I'm a candidate.:D:

MarySwiss
11-06-2005, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by MarySwiss
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. Never been a fan of Helton or Delgado. Also, I've played team sports (volleyball, softball, basketball) my whole life, and I'm a big believer in the powers of teamwork, momentum, and intangibles. And I think it's way too early to "tweak" the Sox. After all, almost nobody picked them to finish anywhere higher than 3rd in the AL Central, and some said 4th. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I think Thomas at DH and Konerko at 1st is the way to go. Anyway, time will tell.


None of that really matters a damn if the pitching doesn't do what it did. You can swap Konerko and Thomas for Delgado and Helton and we probably still win the World Series in '05.

Yeah, and if my aunt had b****, she'd be my uncle! I HATE all this "if" crap. What happened IN REAL LIFE is the Sox fielded an exciting, multitalented team. Will they do it again? Who knows. But I'd love to see them try!

And I think your "Konerko and Thomas for Delgado and Helton and we probably still win the World Series in '05" theory is fallacious. Our pitching was great--exceptional throughout the playoffs--but it's a long season and Konerko's and Thomas's contributions during that long season cannot be downplayed.