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View Full Version : A.J. Burnett: disaster waiting to happen.


veeter
11-05-2005, 04:32 PM
I've read Toronto and now Detroit are after this guy. He of the sore arm, never really produced, Burnetts, wants a FIVE year deal. He'll probably get it AND a ton of money. This further makes me so happy that my team's GM and owner are prudent. They research and make deals that make sense.

beckett21
11-05-2005, 04:57 PM
With all due respect, I don't see a point to this thread other than to rip on AJ Burnett behind the guise of giving *props* to our front office. You don't have to like Burnett, but there is no reason I can think of for people to hate the guy so much. Did he run over your dog or something?

The Sox didn't trade for him. The Sox are not going to try to acquire him. He has had Tommy John surgery. He is just like Carrie Woods. :rolleyes:

We get it already.

Why people take such offense to the good fortune of others, or joy in their misfortunes, is beyond me. :?:

TheOldRoman
11-05-2005, 05:02 PM
I think he will go to either the Orioles or the Tigers. Odds on favorites are the Tigers. They were just starting to climb out of the cellar, and a massive contract for such a headcase is just the thing to keep them there for years to come. Nobody wants to go to Detroit. The city sucks, the team sucks, and the ownership is incompetant. They have some good young players, but they will will do jack **** with them over the next 5 years. Detroit has to overpay questionable players inorder to get them to come there (see: Ordonez, Magglio). He only went to Detroit because nobody else was offering the hobbled Ordonez such a massive contract. Detroit wants Burnett, so they will come out with a ridiculous contract for him too.

veeter
11-05-2005, 05:06 PM
I don't hate the guy. And I don't take offense to his success. I just don't like the hype for players like him. I also don't like guys who haven't won consistently, demanding things like, 5 years and huge money. Your teal comparison to Kerry Wood couldn't be more accurate. Throw in the fact that he's not exactly the greatest clubhouse guy, and I still conclude that he's a disaster waiting to happen. (For the franchise that signs him.)

NWSox
11-05-2005, 05:10 PM
AL teams should be looking at guys like Millwood and Washburn. Given Burnett's injury history and the likely adjustment to the AL, I'm not sure I would spend big money on the guy.

TheOldRoman
11-05-2005, 05:13 PM
With all due respect, I don't see a point to this thread other than to rip on AJ Burnett behind the guise of giving *props* to our front office. You don't have to like Burnett, but there is no reason I can think of for people to hate the guy so much. Did he run over your dog or something?

The Sox didn't trade for him. The Sox are not going to try to acquire him. He has had Tommy John surgery. He is just like Carrie Woods. :rolleyes:

We get it already.

Why people take such offense to the good fortune of others, or joy in their misfortunes, is beyond me. :?:
I think Burnett has loads of talent, and he could probably put it all together somewhere, given the right coaching. However, he is a mediocre pitcher. Baseball's current market creates bidding frenzies over mediocre pitchers like Burnett. Everyone hopes they can turn him from Carrie Woods to Roger Clemens. It likely wont happen. He isn't going to be a productive pitcher unless he goes to the right team. He isn't looking for the right team, he is looking for the right money. Some overzealous owner on an "up and coming" team trying to turn it around will give him a big contract hoping he will be their ace. He wont.
I honestly believe that Coop could really turn Burnett's career around. I think he could make him an ace, given what he has done with others, most notably Contreras. Obviously, our rotation is full, but he wouldn't come here anyway, KW wouldn't give him an insane contract. Baseball GMs fawn over a 99 mph fastball the same way NBA GMs fawn over any guy who can jump high (shooting skills not required).

beckett21
11-05-2005, 05:22 PM
I don't hate the guy. And I don't take offense to his success. I just don't like the hype for players like him. I also don't like guys who haven't won consistently, demanding things like, 5 years and huge money.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it.

Your teal comparison to Kerry Wood couldn't be more accurate.

Burnett is nothing like Wood, other than the fact that they are both fireballers who had TJ surgery.

The bulk of Burnett's lost service time was due to ONE injury. Granted it was a big injury, but he is not a habitual visitor/repeat offender to the DL for a laundry-list of injuries like Wood. Burnett has not *broken down* since returning from his surgery about a year and a half ago. He may have had one visit to the 15-day DL last season, none this season. IIRC he only missed one start this year. Feel free to look it up and tell me if I'm wrong. I'm going from memory from the previous trade-deadline debates.

Throw in the fact that he's not exactly the greatest clubhouse guy, and I still conclude that he's a disaster waiting to happen. (For the franchise that signs him.)

I still don't get this *clubhouse cancer* stuff.

AJ Pierzynski was considered a *clubhouse cancer* too. Fair assessment or not?

The guy is loved by Marlins fans and teammates alike in every report I have ever seen. He blew his stack and spoke his mind at the end of this season, but that does not make him a cancer in my mind. To me, it was the frustration of a player with a strong desire to win boiling over. McKeon lost that team in Florida. Burnett just said what the rest of the team was thinking, but couldn't say because they weren't about to fly the coop as a FA.

I'd be curious to see some *documented evidence* that Burnett is a cancer, other than heresy. It wasn't fair to Pierzynski, it isn't fair to Burnett.

buehrle4cy05
11-05-2005, 05:26 PM
Burnett is going to earn about $5 or $7 million more than he deserves this offseason. His arm is suspect and he pitched horribly in the second half. He'll probably get $10 million a year from the Yankees and end up in the same boat as Carl Pavano.

I would like him more, but he sold out the Marlins in September. After that, I haven't been a big fan of his.

veeter
11-05-2005, 05:38 PM
Well, I never called him a cancer. Cancer is probably the worst thing you can call a ball player. I just said he's questionable, which I can't substantiate for sure; just what I've heard. My comparison to Wood is because he's been injured, hasn't won consistently, yet continues to be hyped as a great pitcher; when he's not. In his defense, however, I think he may have eclipsed his career high in innings pitched this year. He also has dynamite stuff. The basis of my thread really, was to blast poorly run teams, rather than Burnett himself. There's a littany of free agents, over the last umpteen years, that have been 'given' huge contracts, that have failed miserably. I sense Burnett to join that list. Obviously you like the Marlins and their players, which is cool. After 2003, I have a soft spot myself. So if I've offended you, I apologize.

beckett21
11-05-2005, 05:40 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: AJ Burnett is not injury prone.

I think that people get him confused with my namesake Josh Beckett, who's name unfortunately appears on the DL monthly for blisters and such.

AJ Burnett and Josh Beckett are two different players who happened to play for the same team. They are not the same person.

Burnett missed a full season to recover from TJ surgery. Since he returned in June 2004, he has not been on the DL that I could find. He missed one start this season. One.

He had an injury. He has recovered from said injury. He is not injury prone. Whether or not he is an injury risk is a different discussion, but he has been wrongly labeled as a Carrie Woods clone and I will sing it from the mountaintops until my lungs bleed.

Yeah I'm a Burnett fan too, sue me. :redneck

beckett21
11-05-2005, 05:47 PM
Obviously you like the Marlins and their players, which is cool. After 2003, I have a soft spot myself. So if I've offended you, I apologize.

LOL...no offense taken. No apology necessary. You really didn't say anything to offend me. Hopefully I didn't offend you in my responses. :smile:

I'm not offended in the least. I just think that there are some misconceptions about Burnett out there, myths if you will. Some well founded, others not so much. I'm not an authority, just a fan.

I don't expect everyone to like him. What fun would that be? Who would I argue with then? It's the Kerry Wood comparisions that particularly get under my skin. :redneck

For the record, I was a big proponent of the Sox trading for Burnett. Let me also state for the record that in hindsight, I am very happy that the Sox kept Contreras and McCarthy. That trade would have been a mistake.

TheOldRoman
11-05-2005, 05:47 PM
Burnett is going to earn about $5 or $7 million more than he deserves this offseason. His arm is suspect and he pitched horribly in the second half. He'll probably get $10 million a year from the Yankees and end up in the same boat as Carl Pavano.

I would like him more, but he sold out the Marlins in September. After that, I haven't been a big fan of his.
Are you kidding? $10 million a year? Last year, the Kris Bensons and Russ Ortiz of the world were getting 7-10 million a year. Burnett extremely overhyped, and will demand much more. Someone will pay him $13-15 mil a year. Book it.

beckett21
11-05-2005, 05:55 PM
Are you kidding? $10 million a year? Last year, the Kris Bensons and Russ Ortiz of the world were getting 7-10 million a year. Burnett extremely overhyped, and will demand much more. Someone will pay him $13-15 mil a year. Book it.

Unfortunately you are correct. That's the market.

I can't say what Burnett will do in the future. His career could go either way at this juncture. The sky's the limit, but he could just as easily bust. I don't think he will, but that's just one man's opinion.

I'm not going to try to justify him getting that kind of money, because I don't have a leg to stand on. His numbers are what they are. The potential is there though. Right or wrong, that's how the system works. That was Veeter's point, and it is well taken. I just didn't like his example. :tongue:

samram
11-05-2005, 05:56 PM
LOL...no offense taken. No apology necessary. You really didn't say anything to offend me. Hopefully I didn't offend you in my responses. :smile:

I'm not offended in the least. I just think that there are some misconceptions about Burnett out there, myths if you will. Some well founded, others not so much. I'm not an authority, just a fan.

I don't expect everyone to like him. What fun would that be? Who would I argue with then? It's the Kerry Wood comparisions that particularly get under my skin. :redneck

For the record, I was a big proponent of the Sox trading for Burnett. Let me also state for the record that in hindsight, I am very happy that the Sox kept Contreras and McCarthy. That trade would have been a mistake.

Yeah, I don't think the potential for injuries would concern me as a GM as much as his inconsistency. Even in the second half of this season, he went through some significant peaks and valleys. I think he had a six game winning streak in late July through early September and then didn't win a game the rest of the year. I would have to think long and hard before giving a guy like that $12 million a year.

fquaye149
11-05-2005, 09:28 PM
With all due respect, I don't see a point to this thread other than to rip on AJ Burnett behind the guise of giving *props* to our front office. You don't have to like Burnett, but there is no reason I can think of for people to hate the guy so much. Did he run over your dog or something?

The Sox didn't trade for him. The Sox are not going to try to acquire him. He has had Tommy John surgery. He is just like Carrie Woods. :rolleyes:

We get it already.

Why people take such offense to the good fortune of others, or joy in their misfortunes, is beyond me. :?:

He really pulled some bull**** on McKeon at the end of the year. In fact his whole end of the year fiasco is why I hate him, and feel justified doing so.

StockdaleForVeep
11-06-2005, 02:59 AM
I see him like a kerry wood\prior, so much amazing potential but cant remain healthy to conquer it

TheOldRoman
11-06-2005, 03:40 AM
I see him like a kerry wood\prior, so much amazing potential but cant remain healthy to conquer it
As Beckett said, health is not his problem. He is healthy. He had Tommy John surgery, but since he came back he has been healthy. However, IMO he is very much like Carrie Woods in that he needs to learn how to pitch. They are both "throwers", not pitchers. They try to throw the ball 150 mph on each pitch, instead of learning the delicate art of pitching. Burnett has much better stuff than Wood, but he has the same mental problem. I think Burnett could turn it around with the right pitching coach (Coop), but he will go where the money is, not where he can succeed.

Domeshot17
11-06-2005, 05:21 AM
Agreed on the unfair comparison to Kerry Wood. Wood KEEPS having surgery,AJ Burnett probably did it better than anyone. Had Surgery, and took all the time needed to heal before returning, let it heal 100% so it doesnt happen again.

When did the Kitten get the money to be the yankees? 13 a year to Magglio, Another truck to Pudge, a ton to Percival, now probably 11 mil a year to AJ. Didn't this happen to the Rangers not to long ago, the GM Spends more than the team makes, and eventually the team has to sell and rebuild.

That being said, I like Burnett to the Blue Jays. He had no hit stuff( just not no hit control, lol 9 walks in a no hitter) under the pitching coach of the Jays. But his Agent made it clear there will be a high bidding war for the unproven one. What I find funny about him is 2 things. I think theres about an unwritten stat basically saying nl to al translates in ABOUT .75 added to the ERA. So all this war for a guy projected to an era around 5. I remember a game during the year espen made a huge deal AJ struck out 14 in 6 innings and left after 112 pitches or so, but they made it seem like the 5 runs he gave up in 6 innings was nothing. This kid needs to learn( like Garland did) He has defense behind him, make pitches to get batters out, even if that means not trying to strike them all out.

When does the ceiling on a pitcher fall? Burnett has been ready to break out for years, when is it safe to assume what you see is what you get.

I rule out the club house cancer thing though, Remember when all the marlins woar the high socks to honor Burnett and tell ownership to keep this guy here, His blow up was because the team died down the stretch, and he stayed and didnt ask for a trade because they said they would step up and make the playoffs, it had to be very frusterating.

beckett21
11-06-2005, 01:01 PM
He really pulled some bull**** on McKeon at the end of the year. In fact his whole end of the year fiasco is why I hate him, and feel justified doing so.

The interpretation of that event is in the eye of the beholder.

While it may not have been the best way to express himself, to me it was the frustration of an intense competitor coming out. Of course, your interpretation is valid as well. I wouldn't tell you that your opinion is wrong.

The guys who spent all season in that clubhouse could tell you if he was justified or not. But I can see where people would be turned off by his mouth. I just see that episode differently, perhaps because of my own bias as a FOAJB. :D:

It's Time
11-06-2005, 01:31 PM
Levineline has already stated that the cubs and Burnett will begin "serious" talks next week.

Are the cubs trying to field the all injured team?

Prior
Wood
Burnett


On paper it looks nice but when you can't make the starts, it doesn't mean ****!

beckett21
11-06-2005, 01:43 PM
Prior
Wood
Burnett


On paper it looks nice but when you can't make the starts, it doesn't mean ****!

Burnett missed one start last season, two if you count being sent home for his mouth the last week of the year. Those are the only starts he has missed since returning from his injury in June 2004. Feel free to look it up if you like.

For my own sanity, I give up. People will only see what they want to see, facts be damned.

It's Time
11-06-2005, 01:47 PM
Burnett missed one start last season, two if you count being sent home for his mouth the last week of the year. Those are the only starts he has missed since returning from his injury in June 2004. Feel free to look it up if you like.

For my own sanity, I give up. People will only see what they want to see, facts be damned.


beckett:

I am saying given the past injury history of those 3 pitchers, the cubs are seriously rolling the dice if they think all of them will stay healthy. They all have a history of getting injured, you can't deny that.

beckett21
11-06-2005, 01:52 PM
beckett:

I am saying given the past injury history of those 3 pitchers, the cubs are seriously rolling the dice if they think all of them will stay healthy. They all have a history of getting injured, you can't deny that.

Burnett is an injury risk. Indisputable. However outside of that one injury, he hasn't had any others. Prior and Wood are on the DL every month for something different. Burnett made all his starts last year but one until he was sent home for insubordination.

Just one of my pet peeves when he is lumped in with Prior and Wood as a chronic member of the DL. It's just not the same thing.

I apologize if I misconstrued your point. I don't know why I'm so touchy on the subject, I just am. Nothing personal to you or anyone else in this thread. Must just be the Cub factor involved that gets under my skin. :redneck

It's Time
11-06-2005, 02:04 PM
Burnett is an injury risk. Indisputable. However outside of that one injury, he hasn't had any others. Prior and Wood are on the DL every month for something different. Burnett made all his starts last year but one until he was sent home for insubordination.

Just one of my pet peeves when he is lumped in with Prior and Wood as a chronic member of the DL. It's just not the same thing.

I apologize if I misconstrued your point. I don't know why I'm so touchy on the subject, I just am. Nothing personal to you or anyone else in this thread. Must just be the Cub factor involved that gets under my skin. :redneck

No problem, man. Also, there is no doubt that Burnett has some of the most nasty stuff in baseball. He's a force and would be a welcome addition to any rotation.

fquaye149
11-06-2005, 02:12 PM
The interpretation of that event is in the eye of the beholder.

While it may not have been the best way to express himself, to me it was the frustration of an intense competitor coming out. Of course, your interpretation is valid as well. I wouldn't tell you that your opinion is wrong.

The guys who spent all season in that clubhouse could tell you if he was justified or not. But I can see where people would be turned off by his mouth. I just see that episode differently, perhaps because of my own bias as a FOAJB. :D:

That's fine - you're well within your rights to like him. Heck - Ozzie likes him, so you're in good company.

I just think taking potshots at your manager isn't a good way of conducting yourself, especially when your manager is someone I respect as much as Trader Jack. To be fair, it was a big cluster-you-know-what down there in Miami, and losing begets bad soundbites, but I just got a bad impresison of the kid from what went on at the end of the year.

beckett21
11-06-2005, 02:19 PM
No problem, man. Also, there is no doubt that Burnett has some of the most nasty stuff in baseball. He's a force and would be a welcome addition to any rotation.

He's still an enigma with a lot to prove. I acknowledge that.

The talent is there, he just has to harness it. I'm betting that he does, but it's not a lock. He will be overpaid for his upside, and he will be criticized for it until he proves he is worthy of the money. It's the nature of the beast I suppose.

beckett21
11-06-2005, 02:30 PM
That's fine - you're well within your rights to like him. Heck - Ozzie likes him, so you're in good company.

I just think taking potshots at your manager isn't a good way of conducting yourself, especially when your manager is someone I respect as much as Trader Jack. To be fair, it was a big cluster-you-know-what down there in Miami, and losing begets bad soundbites, but I just got a bad impresison of the kid from what went on at the end of the year.

It is hard to defend an outburst like that. I can't blame you for your opinion. He could have handled the situation a little better, definitely.

On the whole I have always thought him to be universally liked by his teammates. I could be wrong though.

samram
11-06-2005, 02:35 PM
It is hard to defend an outburst like that. I can't blame you for your opinion. He could have handled the situation a little better, definitely.

On the whole I have always thought him to be universally liked by his teammates. I could be wrong though.

I don't think his teammates had a problem with him. Remember that the veterans on that team sat Miguel Cabrera down and told him he had to improve his work habits, etc., and I don't see any reason they wouldn't have done the same with Burnett if there was a similar problem. On the other hand, they may have felt as if he was leaving anyway, so why bother trying to straighten him out.

beckett21
11-06-2005, 03:31 PM
I don't think his teammates had a problem with him. Remember that the veterans on that team sat Miguel Cabrera down and told him he had to improve his work habits, etc., and I don't see any reason they wouldn't have done the same with Burnett if there was a similar problem. On the other hand, they may have felt as if he was leaving anyway, so why bother trying to straighten him out.

Again this is only my opinion, but I think that Burnett was expressing the feelings of the majority of his teammates. Difference was that they were not in a position to speak out like he was. I'd be willing to bet that if forced to choose a side, the vast majority would have taken his side over McKeon's. If you read his comments, he was taking a stand for his teammates.

Burnett strikes me as a warrior, to a fault perhaps. He pitched through his previous injury and refused to acknowledge it until it was blatantly obvious there was something wrong with him. He is to me the kind of guy who would take the ball with his arm hanging by a thread, and not make any excuses for a poor performance. I've always got a soft spot for a guy like that. :cool:

MiamiSpartan
11-08-2005, 08:40 PM
I hope Detroit gets him. They seem to love paying over-the-top money for people on the downside of their careers....I just laugh my ass off when they do it! He was a cancer on the Marlins this year, and never really produced during his tenure...

chaerulez
11-08-2005, 08:52 PM
It would be great if Detroit does sign him and he doesn't even make 2/3 of his starts.

MadetoOrta
11-08-2005, 10:16 PM
I hope he keeps his nasty/sick stuff in the National League.

SoxSpeed22
11-08-2005, 10:39 PM
IMO, an AL East will sign him. Perhaps the Black Jays, BloSox or Yankmees. I don't think he'll be a disaster, but he won't be all that he was cracked up to be at the trade deadline.

Tragg
11-09-2005, 12:20 AM
I'll take our chances facing a below .500 pitcher who has pitched for an above average national league club. All hype and "stuff."

TheOldRoman
11-09-2005, 01:34 AM
It would be great if Detroit does sign him and he doesn't even make 2/3 of his starts.
*shakes head*

Did you read any of Beckett21's post in this thread. For the umpteenth time, Burnett is not injured all the time. He had ONE big injury (tommy john surgery), and since he returned he hasn't missed time. Josh Beckett is on the DL once a month, but Burnett makes his starts.
You can critique him because he is a headcase. He has a ****load of talent but doesn't know how to pitch. You can critique him because he often throws 100 pitches through 5 innings and walks a bunch of guys, but dont say he is always injured. It isn't true.