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View Full Version : The Sox should pick up...


kermittheefrog
12-15-2001, 07:02 AM
Steve Woodard

The Tribe released him yesterday, we should give this guy a chance. We might be able to just give him a minor league deal and an invite to spring training. At worst a cheap major league deal. A couple years ago he was the Brewers' best starter, he had some injury problems, he was traded to Cleveland and they never gave him a fair shot. They let him toil in the pen and even sent him to the minors.

I think he deserves another shot, he's just 27 next year. He doesn't throw hard, he's a bit gopher prone but he has stellar control. He's a low risk guy who could come in and be the new Sean Lowe if the Sox give him the respect the Tribe didn't. Then again the Sox didn't seem to have much respect for Lowe so what are the chances?

RedPinStripes
12-15-2001, 07:50 AM
I doubt it.

kermittheefrog
12-15-2001, 04:53 PM
Yeah I doubt it too because it would be smart to pickup a low-risk pitcher with a potentially high reward. Kenny the Klown doesn't do smart things.

Jerry_Manuel
12-15-2001, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Yeah I doubt it too because it would be smart to pickup a low-risk pitcher with a potentially high reward

Sounds like a Ron Schueler type move (Cal Eldred).

kermittheefrog
12-15-2001, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Sounds like a Ron Schueler type move (Cal Eldred).

Yeah Shue actually knew what he was doing.

czalgosz
12-15-2001, 05:10 PM
I don't think the Sox roster is quite filled out yet. After all, there are over 100 unsigned free-agents out there right now, mainly because every team not in New York is acting just like the White Sox right now. Not that the Sox will end up with any of those free agents, but you can bet they'll end up with some players moved to make room for those free agents, if that make sense. I'm not going to judge any moves made by the Sox until Spring Training starts.

Jerry_Manuel
12-15-2001, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I don't think the Sox roster is quite filled out yet. After all, there are over 100 unsigned free-agents out there right now, mainly because every team not in New York is acting just like the White Sox right now. Not that the Sox will end up with any of those free agents.

Yeah that's to bad a lot of good names out there to go after.

GASHWOUND
12-15-2001, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Yeah I doubt it too because it would be smart to pickup a low-risk pitcher with a potentially high reward. Kenny the Klown doesn't do smart things.

Yeah, actually Woodard wouldn't be such a horrible move. maybe he can regain his form when he was a Brewer. Who would be our 5th starter if the season would start today? he couldn't do worse than whoever that may be. But like you said, thats a smart move and KW avoids stuff like that.

kermittheefrog
12-15-2001, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
I don't think the Sox roster is quite filled out yet. After all, there are over 100 unsigned free-agents out there right now, mainly because every team not in New York is acting just like the White Sox right now. Not that the Sox will end up with any of those free agents, but you can bet they'll end up with some players moved to make room for those free agents, if that make sense. I'm not going to judge any moves made by the Sox until Spring Training starts.

With Kenny at the helm the idea that there are more moves to be made frightens me a hell of a lot more than it makes me feel better aboutt he team.

czalgosz
12-15-2001, 05:35 PM
The ironic thing about this is that the reason there's so many good names to go after is that no one is going after them. Barry Bonds is having trouble finding a suitor. BARRY BONDS!!! Apparently the new rule is -

"If the Yankees and Mets are set at the position you play, you are S.O.L."

Jerry_Manuel
12-15-2001, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
The ironic thing about this is that the reason there's so many good names to go after is that no one is going after them. Barry Bonds is having trouble finding a suitor. BARRY BONDS!!! Apparently the new rule is -

"If the Yankees and Mets are set at the position you play, you are S.O.L."

Collusion? Bonds is out of his mind, he wants 20 million per for 5 years. No team is going to give him that. Damon wants 6 years at 10 million per year. The fact of the matter is that most of these guys are asking for way more then their worth. But if they can get it good for them.

kermittheefrog
12-15-2001, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Collusion? Bonds is out of his mind, he want 20 million per for 5 years. No team is going to give him that. Damn wants 6 years at 10 million per year. The fact of the matter is that most of these guys are asking for way more then their worth. But if they can get it good for them.

The thing that makes free agent signings tough isn't the money, it's the years. The A's can't bring back Giambi because they can't risk paying a 37 year old first baseman 17 mil. It's hard to bring in Barry Bonds because he wants 20 million when he's 41! Willie Mays wasn't still a great player when he was 41, why should we expect Bonds to be?

On an off topic note I think the Sox shoudl bring in Rickey Henderson. He may be old he still gets on base, steals bases and at least he's cheap.

czalgosz
12-15-2001, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog



On an off topic note I think the Sox shoudl bring in Rickey Henderson. He may be old he still gets on base, steals bases and at least he's cheap.

I've never been a fan of Mr. "I'm the greatest", but chemistry issues aside, where would Henderson play? The Sox are pretty stocked in the outfield and at DH.

kermittheefrog
12-15-2001, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I've never been a fan of Mr. "I'm the greatest", but chemistry issues aside, where would Henderson play? The Sox are pretty stocked in the outfield and at DH.

I say play him in left and move C-Lee in a trade. Rickey may be I'm the greatest but have you ever heard of teammates complaining about him? As far as I can tell his teammates like him.

czalgosz
12-15-2001, 07:43 PM
That's pretty risky... trading Lee and bringing in Rickey Henderson would leave the Sox without a left fielder if Rickey didn't pan out - and we all know how much you hate Aaron Rowand.

kermittheefrog
12-15-2001, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
That's pretty risky... trading Lee and bringing in Rickey Henderson would leave the Sox without a left fielder if Rickey didn't pan out - and we all know how much you hate Aaron Rowand.

I don't think Lee is a leftfielder though. I think he's a 1B/DH. If we could use Lee to get a CF then Rickey could hold left for a year and Mighty Joe Borchard could play left after that.

Jerry_Manuel
12-15-2001, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I don't think Lee is a leftfielder though. I think he's a 1B/DH. If we could use Lee to get a CF then Rickey could hold left for a year and Mighty Joe Borchard could play left after that.

And who would play center if Joe played left? Please don't tell me Singleton.

CLR01
12-15-2001, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


And who would play center if Joe played left? Please don't tell me Singleton.

Why would we waste joe in left? Move maggs to left. joe to right.


"I've got dibs on CF."


:slowswing

Jerry_Manuel
12-15-2001, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by CLR01
Why would we waste joe in left? Move maggs to left. joe to right.


It was Kermit's idea.

duke of dorwood
12-15-2001, 09:49 PM
I'd only add an outfielder with big power. Remember, we dont know how Frank is gonna be. We cant be getting out homered in our own park. Maybe the Ricky Gutierrez signing is a signal that there is some collusion outside of New York. He didn't do as well, and the longer some of these guys are out there, the prices will drop.

CLR01
12-15-2001, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
I'd only add an outfielder with big power. Remember, we dont know how Frank is gonna be. We cant be getting out homered in our own park. Maybe the Ricky Gutierrez signing is a signal that there is some collusion outside of New York. He didn't do as well, and the longer some of these guys are out there, the prices will drop.


Who cares if we get out homered, as long as we dont get outscored.

kermittheefrog
12-15-2001, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by duke of dorwood
I'd only add an outfielder with big power. Remember, we dont know how Frank is gonna be. We cant be getting out homered in our own park. Maybe the Ricky Gutierrez signing is a signal that there is some collusion outside of New York. He didn't do as well, and the longer some of these guys are out there, the prices will drop.

I don't get it. Could you explain the colusion thing?

Dadawg_77
12-15-2001, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I've never been a fan of Mr. "I'm the greatest", but chemistry issues aside, where would Henderson play? The Sox are pretty stocked in the outfield and at DH.

I can see how you can not be a fan of his off the field the behavior, but when it comes to what happens between the lines hes great. I my opinion, if he retires instead of playing this year, he would best player that is HOF eligible in five years. He later season production has fallen off, that happens as you approach 40. But he was best leadoff man in baseball during his time.

As for the sox picking him him up, I don't know, like I said his prime is past him and not sure what he can bring to the table that the Sox don't have. Maybe the ability to take pitches and walk, I wonder if he could teach that to our current guys.

Dadawg_77
12-15-2001, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I don't get it. Could you explain the colusion thing?

Colusion in baseball refers to when the owners of the team cospired together towards what fa would be paid on the open market durring 70's and early 80's. This is a illagal act under US antitrust laws and the Players Union sued and won a muti hundred million settelment from MBL. (This is sited as the main driving force behind baseballs last expantion, the fees the Rays and D Backs paid to enter MBL went to pay off the settlement)

I am not a lawyer but I believe colusion is when compettiors conspire to fix a price whether it the price charged or price paid. For an example if Ford, Benz, and GM got together and set the price they would buy steel at.

Daver
12-15-2001, 11:30 PM
You are exactly correct,though collusion could also mean the owners getting together and not signinganyfree agents.

kermittheefrog
12-16-2001, 12:44 AM
I guess I misphrased my question. I meant how does the Guitierrez signing hint at a colusion?

Dadawg_77
12-16-2001, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
I guess I misphrased my question. I meant how does the Guitierrez signing hint at a colusion?

That doesn't really hint at it, but what does is the Yankees are the only team siging FAs. So the question is are the other owners just not giving away millions of dollars because they don't want to, or did they as a group meet and say that no one would sign any FA this off season. Leaving George out of it since he would never go along and blow their cover.

Daver
12-16-2001, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77


That doesn't really hint at it, but what does is the Yankees are the only team siging FAs. So the question is are the other owners just not giving away millions of dollars because they don't want to, or did they as a group meet and say that no one would sign any FA this off season. Leaving George out of it since he would never go along and blow their cover.

The Yankees are not the only team that have signed a FA,but that does not shoot a hole in your theory,no high money FA's have been signed.Perhaps you are on to something?

Daver
12-16-2001, 02:07 AM
But I don't know anything about baseball,just ask Bmr.

Dadawg_77
12-16-2001, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by daver


The Yankees are not the only team that have signed a FA,but that does not shoot a hole in your theory,no high money FA's have been signed.Perhaps you are on to something?

True, sorry I just got home from the bar (Why am I here :Gulp:) but I was thinking along the lines of why has no offer anything to Bonds, Damon, Boone from what I hear. Baseball owners didn't become smart overnight.

kermittheefrog
12-16-2001, 05:17 AM
Well here's what I've heard:

Boone: Wants to go back to Seattle but wants to play hardball and milk them for everything they've got.

Damon: Was waiting to see what Giambi did.

Bonds: Asked for something like 5 year 100 mil deal and everyone laughed at him.... In unison.

czalgosz
12-16-2001, 11:21 AM
And also, there's the issue of the $500 Mill the owners supposedly lost last season. I personally think that's bull, but it looks kinda bad if they're all saying they lost money and then they go out and increase payroll. If you notice, the only team increasing payroll this off-season is the Yankees.

Tragg
12-16-2001, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I say play him in left and move C-Lee in a trade. Rickey may be I'm the greatest but have you ever heard of teammates complaining about him? As far as I can tell his teammates like him.

Even better, if the rumors are true - we'll have jay peyton on the Sox. Another CF with zero power, who can't get on base or walk to save his life. Kenny Williams loves players who can't get on base, for some reason.

kermittheefrog
12-16-2001, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by Tragg


Even better, if the rumors are true - we'll have jay peyton on the Sox. Another CF with zero power, who can't get on base or walk to save his life. Kenny Williams loves players who can't get on base, for some reason.

That's because that's the kind of player he was.

rmusacch
12-16-2001, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


That's because that's the kind of player he was.

If that is really the case, Jerry Reinsdorf needs to fire his ass and get a competent GM in there. We should have gone after John Hart when he was up for grabs.

Daver
12-16-2001, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


If that is really the case, Jerry Reinsdorf needs to fire his ass and get a competent GM in there. We should have gone after John Hart when he was up for grabs.

I think the John Hart deal to Texas was a done deal before he left Cleveland.

kermittheefrog
12-16-2001, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


If that is really the case, Jerry Reinsdorf needs to fire his ass and get a competent GM in there. We should have gone after John Hart when he was up for grabs.

You really want Hart? The guy who traded away Giles, Sexson, Burnitz, etc. and got no titles out of it? Then fled the scene when his nucleus got too old to be a real contender. I would never want that guy running our club, Texas is lucky they got Grady Fuson from the A's to keep Hart from screwing himself too bad.

RichH55
12-17-2001, 09:24 AM
Hart wasnt on my list:) Neither was Cam Bonifay either...because im not a masochist..wait White Sox/Blackhawks fan....because im not stupid..there much better. But what about JJ who went from Oakland to Toronto(and did it the right way)? If the Grady situation doesnt warrant a significant fine/loss of players to Oakland that MLB losses even more credibility IMO

kermittheefrog
12-17-2001, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Hart wasnt on my list:) Neither was Cam Bonifay either...because im not a masochist..wait White Sox/Blackhawks fan....because im not stupid..there much better. But what about JJ who went from Oakland to Toronto(and did it the right way)? If the Grady situation doesnt warrant a significant fine/loss of players to Oakland that MLB losses even more credibility IMO

You kidding? You think Commissioner Bud is gonna actually do anything about that? Only if the Brewers were the team losing a great baseball mind and for them to do that they'd have to have a great baseball mind.

RichH55
12-17-2001, 01:24 PM
Well I can always hope.....and I see no reason for Bud the tool not too do anything about it...that being said he probably wont do a thing. But does he really owe Hicks anything? Isnt Hicks putting the 20 million dollar figure into a reality? Isn't Oakland one of the teams that MLB should be telling teams to immulate? Maybe the A's don't have a legal staff like Al Davis or Peter Angelos, but isn't this a small way for Bud to show he and the game have some intregratity left? Damn soapbox speeches, but the fact remains Bud and MLB lose alot IMO if they fail to act here...Personally what I would love to see is the A's get a pick of anyone not on the Rangers 40 man roster, regardless of how many years playing expierence they have or whatnot, get the A's a nice little player and have Hicks kick in some money as well

RichH55
12-17-2001, 01:27 PM
:tool
I don't think you have your facts straight here Mr. Beane. Facts are important and not to be fudged! How else do you think the White Sox can make more in TV Revenue than the Chicago Cubs? Maybe the Rangers needed him more! Signed Contract? Committment to the people of Oakland or anywhere else for that matter? <Horrible Throad-clearing for 5 minutes> No comment

kermittheefrog
12-17-2001, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Well I can always hope.....and I see no reason for Bud the tool not too do anything about it...that being said he probably wont do a thing. But does he really owe Hicks anything? Isnt Hicks putting the 20 million dollar figure into a reality? Isn't Oakland one of the teams that MLB should be telling teams to immulate? Maybe the A's don't have a legal staff like Al Davis or Peter Angelos, but isn't this a small way for Bud to show he and the game have some intregratity left? Damn soapbox speeches, but the fact remains Bud and MLB lose alot IMO if they fail to act here...Personally what I would love to see is the A's get a pick of anyone not on the Rangers 40 man roster, regardless of how many years playing expierence they have or whatnot, get the A's a nice little player and have Hicks kick in some money as well

I would think Oakland is one of Bud's biggest enemies. Bud's message isn't "look, small market teams can be smart and compete" it's "small market teams can't compete, ever, no matter what." Oakland is proving Bud wrong, I bet he despises Beane.

RichH55
12-17-2001, 01:38 PM
True enough, maybe I just expect too much, eh? Following the NHL might make me expect too much. When St. Louis was guilty of tampering they got hit hard and lost alot. In the NFL when SF cheated the cap they really got taken to the woodshed. MLB and the tool?

:tool
Um, 49th round draft pick and a hot dog vender of Mr. Beane's choice. What's that Mr. Hicks? Oh ok, a hot dog vender of Mr. Hick's choice



This penalty is going to be alot like Alabama's probation for college football: A dog and pony show

ma-gaga
12-17-2001, 02:01 PM
ok, i missed something. What penalty?

RichH55
12-17-2001, 02:20 PM
Well the way I understand it is Beane has a great staff, and Grady was I think assistant GM and the Rangers wanted to interview him since of course he was under contract, and Beane said ok, with exceptions. Basically he could only be hired away if he was getting a promotion to say GM, not simply more money. Well Hicks hires him as an assitant GM, the same post he held in Oakland, essentially illegally hiring him.....Kind of like signing a bench player from the White Sox(who is under contract) to be your bench player. Of course, what the rangers and Hicks did is ridiculous and you deserved to get punished for this type of tampering/fraud....that of course will take character from Bud, so we will have to see