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downstairs
11-02-2005, 05:36 PM
As per WSCR (and I'm posting it in "What's the Score" on purpose)...

Garcia is being shopped for a possible trade....

Take it for what its worth...

DumpJerry
11-02-2005, 05:37 PM
He's family. Give me a break.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 05:38 PM
As per WSCR (and I'm posting it in "What's the Score" on purpose)...

Garcia is being shopped for a possible trade....

Take it for what its worth...

Shopped for whom? Mark Texiera or Todd Helton?

Unregistered
11-02-2005, 05:39 PM
Yeah, that makes sense.

downstairs
11-02-2005, 05:40 PM
He's family. Give me a break.

I would hope that never comes into consideration. That would be... well... dumb.

He's a great pitcher, that's all that matters.

DaleJRFan
11-02-2005, 05:40 PM
Evidentally, Bruce Levine works for the Score now. Gimme a break. Sox won the title because of their pitching staff. With whom do they replace Garcia??

Randar68
11-02-2005, 05:43 PM
Evidentally, Bruce Levine works for the Score now. Gimme a break. Sox won the title because of their pitching staff. With whom do they replace Garcia??

AJ Burnett? Kevin Millwood? LOL! Who knows, this is probably baloney, but Garcia makes hefty coin and could also net you a pretty significant talent in return, especially if it's a contingency plan should Konerko hit the open market unsigned...

The problem is the Sox don't have another Brandon McCarthy ready to fill-in if El Duque goes down again next year.

DaleJRFan
11-02-2005, 05:46 PM
...Garcia makes hefty coin and could also net you a pretty significant talent in return.....

Jeremy Reed is coming back!!!! YEY!!! :redneck

house215
11-02-2005, 05:52 PM
Oh boy... I guess we can look forward to an offseason of crazy trade rumors...

MadetoOrta
11-02-2005, 05:53 PM
I think Freddie's in line for $9 million next year. I hope it doesn't happen. He's solid as a rock. I trust KW on this. We also need to not get too bent out of shape when someone from the 2005 World Champion White Sox [I love writing that] is traded, put on waivers or signs with another team. Gotta keep moving forward. Change is a constant. Hopefully, it's the right change.

fquaye149
11-02-2005, 05:56 PM
AJ Burnett? Kevin Millwood? LOL! Who knows, this is probably baloney, but Garcia makes hefty coin and could also net you a pretty significant talent in return, especially if it's a contingency plan should Konerko hit the open market unsigned...

The problem is the Sox don't have another Brandon McCarthy ready to fill-in if El Duque goes down again next year.

Where's Gio Gonzalez at?

Randar68
11-02-2005, 06:03 PM
Where's Gio Gonzalez at?

Too far away. You'd be looking at Corwin Malone, Kris Honel and possibly either Lance Broadway or Daniel Haigwood if you need a 5th starter from our minor leagues next year. I just don't think Tracey is a starter at the MLB level.

MRKARNO
11-02-2005, 06:03 PM
It would only make sense to trade Garcia if we had a better option out there for the other SP. I think someone like Weaver or Washburn might fit the bill, but El Duque is not a serious option. We have no other place to turn at this point if one of the starters goes down and it is inevitable that we'll need a 6th starter at some point.

santo=dorf
11-02-2005, 06:10 PM
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/garcia.jpg

buehrle4cy05
11-02-2005, 06:31 PM
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/garcia.jpg

Perfect. That look on Freddy's face was exactly mine when I saw this.

gf2020
11-02-2005, 06:45 PM
As per WSCR (and I'm posting it in "What's the Score" on purpose)...

Garcia is being shopped for a possible trade....

Take it for what its worth...
I heard this too. I don't think it was reported during any breaks. Either Boers or Bernstein brought it up and said they had read it a couple of places.

Now, besides eating and breathing, the thing I do most is read about the White Sox on the net to an insane degree. I haven't read this once in any article, even on those from websites that just make crap up and pose it as news. I think, in their typical idiotic and uneducated fashion, that they mistook the Garland rumors (which have been out there as something the Sox might do to save money) for Garcia rumors. It's likely not more than that.

RichFitztightly
11-02-2005, 07:28 PM
The problem is the Sox don't have another Brandon McCarthy ready to fill-in if El Duque goes down again next year.

In this early part of the off-season, I'd rather have El Duque in the bullpen to fill-in if McCarthy, or somebody, goes down. I'd like to see El Duque filling the Glendon Rusch role on the Sox.

SOXintheBURGH
11-02-2005, 08:16 PM
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/garcia.jpg


This needs to be a tag.. brilliant.

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 08:39 PM
This needs to be a tag.. brilliant.And I have a feeling it's going to get a lot of use this off-season. It's only a week since the WS is over and the BS rumors are already in high gear. I can't ever recall things getting this silly this soon.

Brian26
11-02-2005, 08:46 PM
He's family. Give me a break.

That's my first reaction, too. There's absolutely no reason why this rumor would make any sense. I'm curious if Offman started it.

Soxfanspcu11
11-02-2005, 09:12 PM
And I have a feeling it's going to get a lot of use this off-season. It's only a week since the WS is over and the BS rumors are already in high gear. I can't ever recall things getting this silly this soon.

I hear ya! But honestly, are you really surprised? I mean the people who started this are likely the Brantley types who have been saying this same BS all season. I'm actually surprised it took so long (1 week) for these people to start trying to rain on our parade, seriously, no teal police needed.

batmanZoSo
11-02-2005, 09:26 PM
My head hurts...

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 09:28 PM
I hear ya! But honestly, are you really surprised? I mean the people who started this are likely the Brantley types who have been saying this same BS all season. I'm actually surprised it took so long (1 week) for these people to start trying to rain on our parade, seriously, no teal police needed.You'd be surprised to see how many of these get started on message boards like this one. Someone gets a bright idea to trade two bench players for someone else's star player that they want. Pretty soon it's reported as a "rumor". Either that or some assclown sportsblab host is having a slow day and makes something up just to get a conversation going.

Just ask for a source. It it's overheard at the baggage claim area of the airport, or if someone's cousin's neighbor cuts the grass at Kenny Williams' house, well...you know what to do.

jdm2662
11-02-2005, 09:29 PM
Freddy is not going anywhere. If he wasn't like family to Ozzie, then I might actually believe it's a possiblity. With McCarthy making the min/low end salary for a couple of seasons, you can afford to have all the guns.

DSpivack
11-03-2005, 02:14 AM
As per WSCR (and I'm posting it in "What's the Score" on purpose)...

as in What iS the sCoRe?

or

White Sox Crappy Rumors?

starboy0
11-03-2005, 07:37 AM
This must be a ridiculous rumor! Just read in "the Buzz" by Bob Nightengale (USA Today Sports Weekly Nov. 2-8) that "the Sox are expected to shop Freddie Garcia to make room for Brandon McCarthy." Also someone at work just told me they also heard this on Boors and Bernstein.

This has to be spurious, right? Not Freddie!

ilsox7
11-03-2005, 07:46 AM
Yay Search Function! (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=61719)

MadetoOrta
11-03-2005, 07:52 AM
This explains the BS. Some out of town writer who doesn't follow the Sox and has little or no clue that El Duque arm is shot, assumes the Sox are shopping Freddie. I'm sure this writer has no clue that Freddie is married to Ozzie's niece. Bottom line: look for every team in the world to try to coax some of that pitching from Ozzie. This goes with the territory of being World Champs.

veeter
11-03-2005, 07:54 AM
I would bet my house this is false.

Baby Fisk
11-03-2005, 08:07 AM
Squires needs to start cranking out the off-season dumb questions.

Flight #24
11-03-2005, 09:07 AM
Freddy gets a whopping $1M raise from 05 to 06, just threw a pretty dominant WS clincher following a pretty good postseason followinga pretty good regular season. The team just won based on pitching. They'd be choosing to sub McCarthy in for Freddy instead of El Duque, who by the way wasn't able to go a full season last year and is now 1 year older, and they don't have a replacement starter anywhere near ready if they do this and Duque goes down again. And, oh yeah - he's married to the manager's niece, just bought a new place in town and had a baby.

Yeah, this rumor has legs....

Ol' No. 2
11-03-2005, 10:25 AM
Freddy gets a whopping $1M raise from 05 to 06, just threw a pretty dominant WS clincher following a pretty good postseason followinga pretty good regular season. The team just won based on pitching. They'd be choosing to sub McCarthy in for Freddy instead of El Duque, who by the way wasn't able to go a full season last year and is now 1 year older, and they don't have a replacement starter anywhere near ready if they do this and Duque goes down again. And, oh yeah - he's married to the manager's niece, just bought a new place in town and had a baby.

Yeah, this rumor has legs....And sadly, this won't be anywhere close to the dumbest rumor we hear this winter.:(:

Foulke You
11-03-2005, 10:54 AM
It would only make sense to trade Garcia if we had a better option out there for the other SP. I think someone like Weaver or Washburn might fit the bill, but El Duque is not a serious option. We have no other place to turn at this point if one of the starters goes down and it is inevitable that we'll need a 6th starter at some point.
Weaver or Washburn is a significant downgrade from Freddy in my opinion. To me, that's comparable to the Red Sox letting Pedro go and replacing him with Clement. We all saw how well that worked for Boston.

In any case, I agree that this rumor is far fetched at best. This rotation is the glue that holds the Sox together. There is a REASON they locked up Freddy for 3 years and it isn't so that he can pitch the last 2 years of the deal on another team.:?:

veeter
11-03-2005, 11:15 AM
It would only make sense to trade Garcia if we had a better option out there for the other SP. I think someone like Weaver or Washburn might fit the bill, but El Duque is not a serious option. We have no other place to turn at this point if one of the starters goes down and it is inevitable that we'll need a 6th starter at some point. It flat out would not EVER make sense to trade Garcia now. I can't believe this stuff. What the heck is going on around here?

Optipessimism
11-03-2005, 06:09 PM
I'm sure KW will look at any offers he is made regardless of what player it is, but I seriously doubt any of our starters are going anywhere. Next year with McCarthy in Duque's spot this rotation is going to be the most dominant rotation in baseball, if it isn't already now. There's no way they screw that up. IMO, if anyone goes it will be an OF or maybe someone from the bullpen (Marte).

SoxFanSince67
11-03-2005, 09:35 PM
Oh boy... I guess we can look forward to an offseason of crazy trade rumors...

...am I the only one who loves all these crazy trade rumors?

FarWestChicago
11-03-2005, 09:38 PM
...am I the only one who loves all these crazy trade rumors?Yes.

Chisox003
11-03-2005, 09:43 PM
And sadly, this won't be anywhere close to the dumbest rumor we hear this winter.:(:
It isn't .... even right now.

The Teixiera and Ichiro threads are beyond stupid

A week into the offseason and the Sox are getting Ichiro and Tex for packages revolving around Duque, Marte, Viz and Rowand, and now we're trading Freddy.

:puking:

Ol' No. 2
11-03-2005, 09:44 PM
It flat out would not EVER make sense to trade Garcia now. I can't believe this stuff. What the heck is going on around here?Apparently people have forgotten how much fun it was having a 5th starter du jour.:o:

MRKARNO
11-03-2005, 09:49 PM
It flat out would not EVER make sense to trade Garcia now. I can't believe this stuff. What the heck is going on around here?

The only way you do it is if you have a cheaper, reliable starter in his stead and in a trade that allows us to improve the offense in a significant way. Otherwise, it makes little sense, I agree.

Ol' No. 2
11-03-2005, 09:53 PM
It isn't .... even right now.

The Teixiera and Ichiro threads are beyond stupid

A week into the offseason and the Sox are getting Ichiro and Tex for packages revolving around Duque, Marte, Viz and Rowand, and now we're trading Freddy.

:puking:That's nothing. Over in the Paul Konerko thread we have people saying they'd be willing to go as high as $10M a year.:o::o:

There's only one explanation. All the drinking during the World Series celebrations have killed off all the remaining brain cells.:drunken::dancers::smokin:

CubsfansareDRUNK
11-03-2005, 09:54 PM
how's Lance Broadway doing by the way

SaltyPretzel
11-03-2005, 10:27 PM
My $0.02

:threadsucks

A. Cavatica
11-03-2005, 10:40 PM
I don't believe that Garcia's being shopped. Why would KW put together the best rotation in MLB, win the World Series behind it, have a chance to bring it back with the top four intact and without increasing salary much, and then tinker with that?

On the other hand, KW is probably listening to offers on everyone, Garcia included. Here are some things to think about.

Maybe Freddy has an undisclosed injury or is having trouble with booze or is beating Ozzie's niece, and we just don't know it yet.

Maybe McCarthy is ready to be a #4 or even a #3 starter. He sure looked like it in September. Sox could still have El Duque at #5, and go after someone more durable. Another lefty would be useful.

Maybe Freddy is the key to getting a Helton at a reasonable price. Freddy is certainly better than any free agent starter. Put Freddy in a deal and you can get any 1B/DH you want, plus cash. Replacing Konerko & Freddy with, say, Helton and Washburn is conceivable.

IMO, the Sox are in a position of strength, and that's when the best deals get made.

Hawk Harrelson
11-03-2005, 11:18 PM
Weaver or Washburn is a significant downgrade from Freddy in my opinion.

Weaver is a huge downgrade, that guy sucks. Washburn is a little better, but I agree with you.

I don't see any reason why we would even dream of trading Freddy, unless we got some monster offensive player in return. No way you want to worry about finding another starter and overpaying for some guy. Did the score really say this? Did anyone else hear it?

Foulke You
11-04-2005, 12:11 AM
Apparently people have forgotten how much fun it was having a 5th starter du jour.:o:
:o:Felix Diaz!! :o: Arnie Munoz!!!:o: Josh Stewart!!:o: Jason Grilli!!:o: Dan Wright!!:o: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Whew...just calmed myself down by putting on my '05 World Series Champions hat. Ol No 2, I forbid you to bring back such dreadful memories. We are still in a celebratory post World Series period!:tongue:

RoundingThird
11-04-2005, 09:20 AM
I don't know how anyone listens to Boers and Bernstein. Terrible.

Bernstein's voice is grating and he gets excited at the mention of a new subject like a child does when he hears ice cream music. Boers and Bernstein constantly subject jump before the conclusion of the current one.

He needs to stop trying to do stand-up too. He is not funny. I don't want to hear an entire sports radio segment about a snake that another animal.

Hawk Harrelson
11-05-2005, 02:33 AM
I just bought a USA Today sporting weekly with the sox on the cover and it actually has a little blurb about this rumor. Supposedly we are shopping Garcia to open up a spot for McCarthy. Which makes no sense to me as we have a spot for BMAC if we move El Duque out of the rotation. I don't know who started this rumor but apparently it's not just someone on this board.

Flight #24
11-05-2005, 08:09 AM
I just bought a USA Today sporting weekly with the sox on the cover and it actually has a little blurb about this rumor. Supposedly we are shopping Garcia to open up a spot for McCarthy. Which makes no sense to me as we have a spot for BMAC if we move El Duque out of the rotation. I don't know who started this rumor but apparently it's not just someone on this board.

So it's believable because USA Today decided to run with a rumor from the Trib? And now you'll see someone like Moronotti say "National sources say the Sox are shopping Garcia", and that'll be confirmation?

Unless you see true independent confirmation, this is pretty much idle speculation by the reporter, or more likely, wishful thinking on the part of the Cubune because the Sox have a dominant rotation locked up for '06. KW ain't that stupid.

Ol' No. 2
11-05-2005, 11:46 AM
Oh, for heaven's sake. How short are people's memories? Doesn't ANYONE remember all the fun we had with the 5th starter du jour? What was Kenny's FIRST priority over the last couple of years? Eliminating the revolving door at the 5th starter and assembling a rotation of FIVE solid starters that they could count on. Does anyone seriously think he's going to undermine that now and count on McCarthy and Hernandez as the 4th and 5th members of the rotation?

This is beyond stupid.

TomBradley72
11-05-2005, 11:55 AM
Maybe Freddy....is having trouble with booze or is beating Ozzie's niece, and we just don't know it yet.



What we do know is that this is a classless comment.....geez the guy just was a complete stud for us in the post season....

TaylorStSox
11-05-2005, 02:21 PM
I don't believe any of this crap either. One thing that we have to consider is that one of our starters might go down next year. They all threw a ton of innings. Of those starters, Garcia's the most likely IMO.

TomSkilling
11-05-2005, 02:51 PM
I agree that a Garcia trade would be stupid considering what he's given to the sox the last two years.....but wouldn't it make more sense for the Rangers or Rockies to go after a sinkerballer like Garland???

Maybe that's why those teams suck every year.....

I don't think that either of the big 4 will be going unless that's the only way to bring back Paulie.



It isn't .... even right now.

The Teixiera and Ichiro threads are beyond stupid

A week into the offseason and the Sox are getting Ichiro and Tex for packages revolving around Duque, Marte, Viz and Rowand, and now we're trading Freddy.

:puking:

A. Cavatica
11-05-2005, 03:02 PM
What we do know is that this is a classless comment.....geez the guy just was a complete stud for us in the post season....

Reading is a skill. I didn't accuse him of anything, I just said there could be reasons he might be on the market that we don't know about.

jabrch
11-05-2005, 03:52 PM
What a waste of bandwidth...

Jjav829
11-05-2005, 03:54 PM
Oh, for heaven's sake. How short are people's memories? Doesn't ANYONE remember all the fun we had with the 5th starter du jour? What was Kenny's FIRST priority over the last couple of years? Eliminating the revolving door at the 5th starter and assembling a rotation of FIVE solid starters that they could count on. Does anyone seriously think he's going to undermine that now and count on McCarthy and Hernandez as the 4th and 5th members of the rotation?

This is beyond stupid.

Yes, it would be stupid to just trade Garcia. But, as I said yesterday, what if Kenny's plan is to trade a starter for a big bat and then replace that starter in free agency? The free agent market has more good pitchers than good hitters. It would be a lot easier to replace a guy like Garcia than Konerko. After Konerko the free agent market has no first basemen that any team should rely on as their starter. So Kenny would have to replace Konerko by bringing in a 1B via trade. Hypothetically (and I don't believe this guy is available despite any crazy rumors), let's say Kenny could build a trade for Teixeira around Garcia and a couple prospects. Kenny could then go after a guy like Washburn, Byrd, Millwood or Morris to replace Garcia. Or replace Teixeira will someone more realistic like Helton, Huff or Overbay. I'm not saying that we would only get Overbay or Huff for Garcia. We would probably get more in return. But the specifics don't matter. I'm simply using these names to point out how Kenny could look to trade a starter for a first baseman and then replace that starter in free agency.

Tragg
11-05-2005, 04:23 PM
Yes, it would be stupid to just trade Garcia. But, as I said yesterday, what if Kenny's plan is to trade a starter for a big bat and then replace that starter in free agency?

I suppose that's possible, but the free agent market for pitchers is singularly poor. Milwood? Burnett? Ugh

Jjav829
11-05-2005, 04:26 PM
I suppose that's possible, but the free agent market for pitchers is singularly poor. Milwood? Burnett? Ugh

It's not great, but what would you rather have (if Konerko leaves):

Garcia and Snow/Gload/Durazo

or

Morris/Washburn/Millwood and Huff/Overbay/Helton?

And why the "Ugh" for Millwood? Did his AL leading 2.86 ERA not impress you?

jdm2662
11-05-2005, 04:28 PM
I suppose that's possible, but the free agent market for pitchers is singularly poor. Milwood? Burnett? Ugh

Milwood lead the AL in ERA this season. He just got piss poor run support for most of the year. He will get a nice offer from teams.

santo=dorf
11-05-2005, 09:42 PM
I agree that a Garcia trade would be stupid considering what he's given to the sox the last two years.....but wouldn't it make more sense for the Rangers or Rockies to go after a sinkerballer like Garland???

Freddy had the highest GB/AO on the starting staff. (Where the **** do people get this idea that Garcia is a flyball pitcher?)

TheOldRoman
11-05-2005, 09:46 PM
Freddy had the highest GB/AO on the starting staff. (Where the **** do people get this idea that Garcia is a flyball pitcher?)
Probably because he does so much better on the road than at the Cell. They believe that he produces more fly balls which carry out more.
BTW, I don't understand why he does so much worse at home, considering he is a gb pitcher. Can anyone elighten me?

Ol' No. 2
11-05-2005, 11:29 PM
Yes, it would be stupid to just trade Garcia. But, as I said yesterday, what if Kenny's plan is to trade a starter for a big bat and then replace that starter in free agency? The free agent market has more good pitchers than good hitters. It would be a lot easier to replace a guy like Garcia than Konerko. After Konerko the free agent market has no first basemen that any team should rely on as their starter. So Kenny would have to replace Konerko by bringing in a 1B via trade. Hypothetically (and I don't believe this guy is available despite any crazy rumors), let's say Kenny could build a trade for Teixeira around Garcia and a couple prospects. Kenny could then go after a guy like Washburn, Byrd, Millwood or Morris to replace Garcia. Or replace Teixeira will someone more realistic like Helton, Huff or Overbay. I'm not saying that we would only get Overbay or Huff for Garcia. We would probably get more in return. But the specifics don't matter. I'm simply using these names to point out how Kenny could look to trade a starter for a first baseman and then replace that starter in free agency.If a team is looking for a starter, why then would they trade a good player for Garcia when they can just sign a FA starter and keep the other player? The only reason I can think of is if they were maxed out on payroll and couldn't take on any more.

I just don't buy it. Assembling the starting rotation was Kenny's major achievement over the last two years. I can't see him breaking it up and taking a chance on signing a FA starter to take his place. It's completely contrary to the entire direction they've taken over the last few years.

Tragg
11-06-2005, 09:11 AM
It's not great, but what would you rather have (if Konerko leaves):

Garcia and Snow/Gload/Durazo

or

Morris/Washburn/Millwood and Huff/Overbay/Helton?

And why the "Ugh" for Millwood? Did his AL leading 2.86 ERA not impress you?
He had a career year this year; he's had good years and bad; I've seen him pitch. I prefer Freddie Garcia.
I'd rather have KOnerko/Garcia than Milwood/Overbay/Helton/Huff. Those 3 hitters are deficient in the 4. Further, garcia is way overpaying for any of those 3 hitters. if we're getting overbay or huff, we should have plenty of money left to get another hitter.

I know you said IF we don't sign Konerko, but I find it hard to believe we couldn't sign Konerko, but would be willing to pay Helton his ridiculous salary. His salary is about what Konerko's will be, his colorado enhanced production is less, he's trending downward, he's 35, and we have to give up talent. I'd rate trading for Helton an extremely dubious move.

jabrch
11-06-2005, 09:16 AM
It's not great, but what would you rather have (if Konerko leaves):

Garcia and Snow/Gload/Durazo

or

Morris/Washburn/Millwood and Huff/Overbay/Helton?

And why the "Ugh" for Millwood? Did his AL leading 2.86 ERA not impress you?

I have very little interest in Huff and Overbay. I think we can find a 1B without having to settle for Snow/Durazo.

I trust KW. I do. I doubt he will take us down that road. I'm also still convinced PK will end up doing the smart thing and staying in a town where he can become a legend. Look at the 85 Bears. Look at some of the Bulls. These guys are set for life in this town. Look at the Ditkas, Tom Waddles, Tom Thayers, Mongos, Jiggets, Buffones, etc. Look at the Wenningtons, Purdues, Paxons, etc. Even look at the Sandbergs of the world.

This town loves its own. PK is well on his way to being an adopted native son of Chicago. That's a heck of an opportunity. I don't see PK going to Anaheim over a few million.

TomSkilling
11-06-2005, 06:00 PM
I am retarded. You're right about garcia not being a flyball pitcher.

For some reason I've always thought he was more of a flyball guy, maybe seeing 5 of his losses this year at home while he was on my fantasy bb roster got me upset with him.....

With that said, texas (or colorado) would be smart to go after him to upgrade their staff.

Freddy had the highest GB/AO on the starting staff. (Where the **** do people get this idea that Garcia is a flyball pitcher?)

knocko94
11-06-2005, 06:30 PM
There was a ton of people here concerned about Garcia being a flyball pitcher in Seattle. His G/F rate was falling over the last few years in Seattle.

G/F
1999 1.40
2000 1.15
2001 1.45
2002 1.13
2003 1.04

2004 SEA 1.02
2004 SOX 1.34
2004 Total 1.15



This year was his best yet for groundballs, with a ratio of 1.60.


Garcia definitely tried to let his defense make more plays for him, a little less strikeouts, a lot more groundballs.

whitesoxfan1986
11-17-2005, 08:49 PM
If the sox trade Freddy there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY they replace him with Jeff Weaver as he is a Boras client so I don't think that is a possibility.

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 01:52 PM
Yes, it would be stupid to just trade Garcia. But, as I said yesterday, what if Kenny's plan is to trade a starter for a big bat and then replace that starter in free agency?

I'd like to look at the scenerio in light of the KW's supposed attempt at signing Eyre as well. Most assume it would have been a move to replace Marte in the 'pen, but we all know KW makes moves like a master chess player, anticipating several rounds in advance. Perhaps he was looking not to replace Marte, but Cotts?

I'm sure many will jump down my throat about Cotts value to the pen, but I would suggest that KW and Ozzie would consider Cotts as a possible replacement for Garcia in the rotation. With the success the Sox have had in the past breaking in young pitchers in the 'pen before moving them to the rotation, I am sure this is something KW must be considering. He has stated repeatedly the need for 'creativity,' and I thinks it pretty obvious KW and Oz hold Cotts at pretty high regard.

The Sox need a big bat preferrably LH. I don't think we can get that by trading Hernandez and Marte as some suggest. I don't think KW or Ozzie are ready to hand the CF job over to Anderson, either - he hasn't proved to be anything more than another Brian Simmons, who if you recall, was another highly touted prospect with a 2 homerun game during a late season cup of coffee. If the sox want to win it again in '06, they need an established quality major league CFer. Anderson and the other OF prospects should have to fight their way into playing time, just like Lee, Ordonez and Cameron did, and Rowand did for that matter.

Trading Garcia would be the best option, in my opinion, because SP is the sox greatest area of strength, net us the big bat we need, could be replaced by an in-house quality established major leaguer in Cotts, who would be very cheap, and the move would free up cash to sign PK and a LH relief pitcher to replace Cotts in the pen. Or the sox could perhaps look to include a LH reliever in the Garcia deal.

The starting pitching would still be a major strength - a rotation of Buerhle, Contreras, Garland, Cotts and McCarthy would be nothing to sneeze at - plus we could keep Hernandez in the long relief role as insurance. I'd argue that rotation could even be superior to the '05 rotation, if you compare the combined productivity of Garcia and Hernandez and the possible production of Cotts and McCarthy - I could see them pitching a good 375-400 innings and winning 25-30 games.

This would allow the Sox to keep their world class defense intact, keep PK, get a legitimate #3 hitter and still have potentially the best rotation in the AL, certainly it would still be among the best regardless. The only concern would be the weakening of the pen, but if KW can get a good lefty, the sox will still be strong with Jenks and company.

getonbckthr
11-18-2005, 03:00 PM
I'm sure many will jump down my throat about Cotts value to the pen, but I would suggest that KW and Ozzie would consider Cotts as a possible replacement for Garcia in the rotation.
No!! Moving Cotts would be a horrible mistake. This guy in my eyes is equal to BJ RYan and Scott Eyre and has potential to be as good as Wagner. Let him pitch, let him dominate.

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 03:22 PM
No!! Moving Cotts would be a horrible mistake. This guy in my eyes is equal to BJ RYan and Scott Eyre and has potential to be as good as Wagner. Let him pitch, let him dominate.

If he were moved to the rotation, he'd be doing a lot more pitching than the 60-70 innings he'd probably get in the bullpen. I'm certainly not suggesting a trade of Cotts, if that's what you meant.

getonbckthr
11-18-2005, 03:33 PM
If he were moved to the rotation, he'd be doing a lot more pitching than the 60-70 innings he'd probably get in the bullpen. I'm certainly not suggesting a trade of Cotts, if that's what you meant.
I know you didn't imply trading Cotts. I think with what he proved last year, and the lack of dominating LHRP it would be a waste.

DaleJRFan
11-18-2005, 03:52 PM
I just don't understand rumor threads like this. Trade Garcia and/or Cotts in a package for a slugger?? Isn't that what KW ans Ozzie DIDN'T want to do? We've seen the Sox slug out 6 homers in a game before, only to lose because the pitching stunk. Station to station baseball with AAAA pitching has been featured on the southside before and it got the Sox second place finishes for 4 years. I just don't get it. The year following a roster blowup, a move to defense, smart baserunning, speed and DOMINANT pitching, tear it al ldown and give it up for ONE guy with a HUGE contract? It doesn't make sense.

There aren't any free agent pitchers on the market that even compare to Freddy, same goes for Cotts. Why trade away two of the guys that were so important to winning 99 games and 11 post season games? And for what? Delgado? Thome? It just doesn't make sense to me. Besides, if the Sox want to "unload" salary in trading Garcia and if the player coming back is Delgado or Thome, that's more salary than before the trade.

If the Sox can resign PK, I would love to see someone like Overbay or Huff and not a slugging star whom could potentially lockup the payrole for years to come. I'd rather see the Sox go after someone understated with a reasonable contract, like Huff of Overbay. Someone who can be attainable for a top prospect and one or two "B" prospects. Maybe someone like Shea Hillenbrand or Chad Tracy.

I don't want to see KW sell the farm and ravage the 25-man roster for the sake of attaining "the big bat". I'd settle for a second-tier slugger. There's more of them to go after, they cost less in trade/contract and allow for more flexibility at the break for other aquisitions. Plus, you can keep the best pitching staff in the majors entirely intact for a World Series reprise.

TheVulture
11-18-2005, 06:02 PM
I just don't understand rumor threads like this. Trade Garcia and/or Cotts in a package for a slugger??

I think I'm the only one who brought up Cotts in this thread, and I was talking about moving him into the rotation if the Sox traded Garcia - just supposing what KW might be thinking if he is indeed trying to trade Garcia, and why it might be a good idea.

Trading Cotts would be ridiculous, no doubt.

KRS1
11-18-2005, 08:27 PM
I think I'm the only one who brought up Cotts in this thread, and I was talking about moving him into the rotation if the Sox traded Garcia - just supposing what KW might be thinking if he is indeed trying to trade Garcia, and why it might be a good idea.

Trading Cotts would be ridiculous, no doubt.

Umm... Did u happen to watch any of the 04 season, that assured me Neil will never be an effective starter. The sever lack of control during innings just killed him, and I wouldn't expect him to be any better in the future b/c he still lives on the edge of the zone. Bad idea.