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maurice
11-02-2005, 03:08 PM
Standard Disclaimer: This is not a prediction of BA’s list, since I have a somewhat different outlook than most of the folks at BA. In particular, I’m biased against low-level prospects, especially low-level pitching prospects. I favor guys with a solid track record, but also look at tools.

I went with a Top 12 this year, due to the increasing depth of the Sox organization. I also omitted the typical comments section, since I've commented extensively on most of these guys in this forum during the season. Last year’s Top 2 (McCarthy and Anderson) should play full MLB seasons in 2006, so I left them off of this list. Of the remaining 8 guys from last year's Top 10 (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40064&highlight=top), 7 make repeat appearances, while 1 was passed up by rising prospects.

Rank - Name - Position
1 - Chris Young - CF
2 - Ryan Sweeney - OF
3 - Rob Valido - SS
4 - Gio Gonzalez - LHP
5 - Casey Rogowski - 1B
6 - Jeff Bajenaru - RHP
7 - Josh Fields - 3B
8 - Lance Broadway - RHP
9 - Daniel Haigwood - LHP
10 - Sean Tracey - RHP
11 - Ray Liotta - LHP
12 - Jerry Owens - OF

Honorable Mention: Munoz, Phillips, Haeger, Honel, Malone, Castro, Whisler, Lumsden, Rodriguez, Reynoso, Russell, Egbert, Harrell, Brooks, Torres, Richard, Stewart, Gonzalez, Lopez, Schnurstein, Nanita, Lucy, Getz, Collaro, Spidale, Amador, Cunningham, Hernandez, Allen, Castillo, Acosta, Sanchez, and Carter.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 04:39 PM
5 - Casey Rogowski - 1B
6 - Jeff Bajenaru - RHP
7 - Josh Fields - 3B
8 - Lance Broadway - RHP
9 - Daniel Haigwood - LHP
10 - Sean Tracey - RHP
11 - Ray Liotta - LHP
12 - Jerry Owens - OF


What was your reasoning for putting a guy who won the batting title in AA after skipping High-A behind Bajenau and Rogowski? That makes no sense to me. You know I like Rogo, but Owens pure leadoff potential and certainly performed like it.

You said you don't like low-level pitching prospects, but you also Liotta and Gonzalez ahead of Owens? Just curious, some of these picks make no sense to me. (although I usually rank by potential, regardless of level except for rookie leagues)

maurice
11-02-2005, 05:27 PM
I usually rank by potential, regardless of level except for rookie leagues

Like I said, my rankings mostly are based on track record and partly on tools. Owens has some issues in these areas (see below). The specific order rarely matches up with anybody else's list (beyond the very top guys). That's why I annually post the disclaimer.
:D:

Track record: Owens has < 1,000 pro ABs. He took a big leap forward in 2005. If he does it again next year, he'll continue to move up the board. In the meanwhile, I'm just going to move him up incrementally.

Tools: (1) I look at OBP more than AVE, unless the AVE is disturbingly low. Owens has a good but not great OBP. I don't see him hitting .330 in MLB, so he'll probably need to improve his walk rate. (2) Owens has shown essentially no power, not even doubles or triples. (3) Owens has lots of raw speed, but he doesn't utilize it efficiently. He won't be pro leadoff material unless he significantly increases his SB%. He should work with Raines (and maybe Podsednik) during Spring Training. (4) From what I've seen, Owens is good defensively, but he'll have a hard time sticking in the majors unless he transitions to CF. I suspect he can do it, but he might not get the chance any time soon. (5) His arm is adequate but not spectacular.

I'm obviously high on Rogo, but IIRC Daver likes him more than I do. I will concede that #5 on this list is much closer to #12 than it is to #1. Numbers 5-12 actually are pretty close, and Young is head-and-shoulders above any of them.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 06:07 PM
(4) From what I've seen, Owens is good defensively, but he'll have a hard time sticking in the majors unless he transitions to CF. I suspect he can do it, but he might not get the chance any time soon. (5) His arm is adequate but not spectacular.

I'm obviously high on Rogo, but IIRC Daver likes him more than I do. I will concede that #5 on this list is much closer to #12 than it is to #1. Numbers 5-12 actually are pretty close, and Young is head-and-shoulders above any of them.

Why will Owens have a hard time sticking in the majors in LF if the Sox have Anderson and Young both capable of playing that position?

I've always been a big fan of Casey's, but I just don't see how he can rate a better prospect than Broadway, Haigwood, Liotta or Owens when he is a 1B with limited power (who knows if he ever finds the stroke to consistently hit for power)

Like you said, it's what you factor and how you weight it... JMO, I suppose.

maurice
11-02-2005, 06:57 PM
Why will Owens have a hard time sticking in the majors in LF if the Sox have Anderson and Young both capable of playing [CF]?


That's fine if 2 of the Owens / Young / Anderson group stay with the Sox and if Owens continues to hit and if Owens improves his SB%, etc. IMO, those smaller "ifs" add up to a really big "if." (It's essentially a best case scenario for folks who want to see our minor-league guys play for the Sox.) However, the reality is that KW will trade most good prospects for veterans. IMO, a team that didn't have Young probably would play Owens in CF and stick a slower guy in LF. Like I said, Owens probably would do fine in CF, but we won't find out as long as he's on the same team as Young. If it turns out that Owens can handle CF, it increases his value (ability to play a more difficult position = more value).

Broadway, Haigwood, Liotta . . . . Like you said, it's what you factor and how you weight it.

That's it. Like I said, I weigh track record more than most, probably because I'm more cautious than most. Guys with short track records move up my board slowly but surely. Besides, it's not like I used VORP to rate Noah Hall ahead of Ryan Sweeney.
:cool:

rdivaldi
11-02-2005, 07:05 PM
I like the list Maurice, it has a nice mix of players from most levels. Personally when I rate guys I like to evaluate the players in person or on videotape, then go to the stats. You never know when you catch a guy on a bad day.

My top 10 going into 2006 is:

1 - Chris Young
2 - Ryan Sweeney
3 - Gio Gonzalez
4 - Rob Valido
5 - Daniel Haigwood
6 - Ray Liotta
7 - Kris Honel
8 - Josh Fields
9 - Ryan Rodriguez
10 - Casey Rogowski

I think Honel is on the upswing, while Rodriguez and Haigwood really impressed me at the end of the season. I'm skeptical about Owens because of his age, so I'm leaving him off.

maurice
11-02-2005, 07:27 PM
Rodriguez really turned it up after a slow start and earned an "honorable mention."

Honel still has me scratching my head. He hasn't been consistently good for a long time now.

Owens' age doesn't bother me as much as his short track record. Much like Rogo, there's a good explanation for Owens' age / level.

Domeshot17
11-02-2005, 08:22 PM
Spidale

I love seeing his name up there for the soul fact I played with him in highschool for a year. I hope he makes the club one day

Hagan
11-02-2005, 09:10 PM
I like the list Maurice, it has a nice mix of players from most levels. Personally when I rate guys I like to evaluate the players in person or on videotape, then go to the stats. You never know when you catch a guy on a bad day.

My top 10 going into 2006 is:

I think Honel is on the upswing, while Rodriguez and Haigwood really impressed me at the end of the season. I'm skeptical about Owens because of his age, so I'm leaving him off.

1 - Chris Young
2 - Ryan Sweeney
3 - Gio Gonzalez
4- Brian Anderson
5- Rob Valido
6- Josh Fields
7- Daniel Haigwood
8- Ray Liotta
9- Ryan Rodriguez
10 - jerry owens
How do you put kris honel so high? he did so bad this year. his future is looking worse and worse every day. Fields should be the number 5 or 6 guy on the list. He has a lot of potential and is doing well in the arizona league right now and for his first year in the minors he didnt do to bad. I also liked carlos torres.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 10:12 PM
I think Honel is on the upswing, while Rodriguez and Haigwood really impressed me at the end of the season. I'm skeptical about Owens because of his age, so I'm leaving him off.

I will again ask *** his age has to do with anything? Guy took several years off from professional baseball and won a batting title in AA in just his 2nd full-season professional season.

He had 522 at-bats this year and still hasn't surpassed 1,000 career minor league at-bats yet! Good lord. His age?

Randar68
11-02-2005, 10:14 PM
I love seeing his name up there for the soul fact I played with him in highschool for a year. I hope he makes the club one day

Spidale is an organizational player atthis point. Not sure why he was mentioned by Maurice unless it was for "service time"... LOL!

maurice
11-02-2005, 10:40 PM
Spidale is an organizational player at this point.

The Sox made that clear when they demoted him all the way back down to W-S. I still keep an eye on him, because he's a local guy.

rdivaldi
11-03-2005, 12:06 PM
I will again ask *** his age has to do with anything? Guy took several years off from professional baseball and won a batting title in AA in just his 2nd full-season professional season.

He had 522 at-bats this year and still hasn't surpassed 1,000 career minor league at-bats yet! Good lord. His age?

I think DOB is one "stat" that people consistently overlook. Whether or not a guy has 1,000 at bats he is still playing against players much younger than him. Physical and mental maturity play a big role in player performance, especially in the minors IMO. While Owens definitely put outstanding numbers up, I'm not sold on his abilities.

That said, I will readily admit that I've only seen limited amounts of Owens at the plate. I could be missing something...

rdivaldi
11-03-2005, 12:10 PM
How do you put kris honel so high? he did so bad this year. his future is looking worse and worse every day. Fields should be the number 5 or 6 guy on the list. He has a lot of potential and is doing well in the arizona league right now and for his first year in the minors he didnt do to bad.

I disagree. Honel started pitching much better at the end of last season. He has the "stuff" to be a good major league pitcher, it just all depends on his elbow. Right now I think his stock is up.

I'm not a big fan of Fields, his plate discipline is horrendous and his defense is pretty average. I probably rated him too high, but I'm intrigued by his power potential. Hopefully his decent showing in the AFL is a sign of good things to come.

maurice
11-03-2005, 02:13 PM
I think DOB is one "stat" that people consistently overlook. Whether or not a guy has 1,000 at bats he is still playing against players much younger than him.

IMO, you're overstating it a bit. Owens is only a couple of months older than Rogo. They're both a couple of years older than most SL prospects, but (like I said before) there's a good explanation for that.

If Owens stays in the organization and takes another step forward next year, he'll move up my board, even though he'll be 25 in the IL. A .300+ hitter with speed at that age / level probably is going to end up on somebody's MLB roster, making him (at the very least) a marginal prospect.

Randar68
11-03-2005, 02:41 PM
I think DOB is one "stat" that people consistently overlook. Whether or not a guy has 1,000 at bats he is still playing against players much younger than him. Physical and mental maturity play a big role in player performance, especially in the minors IMO. While Owens definitely put outstanding numbers up, I'm not sold on his abilities.

Mentally, sure. Physically? Have you seen Owens? What kind of physical maturity do you think he has over 22-23 year olds in AA? The guy gains nothing in terms of physical maturity. No power, no speed, nothing is gained by saying he is older so is more physically mature. That's just gross generalization in every sense. Ignoring player style/ability, ignoring his actual physical or mental maturity, etc.

IMO, that is like complaining about Pods' OPS. Just irrelevant.

If he's Leo Daigle, totally different case, then it's a very valid complaint, but this guy was out of baseball at any level for 3 years IIRC. Heck, you have a much better case to complain about Rogo's age for level and lack of power. The guy is a monster yet always has been at every level. Complain about Owens' SB%... have at it, good concern.

Age? It doesn't have anything to do with the price of tea in China, I'm afraid.

And BTW, nobody overlooks DOB. However, that does not preclude people from analyzing each situation for what it is, as they should.

Norberto7
11-03-2005, 02:50 PM
How do you guys, esp. Randar and Maurcie, know so much about the minors? I see you both live in Chicago, so it must take some extraordinary effort to keep as well informed as you are.

Sorry if this is common knowledge or you've answered this before, I'm just curious. :cool:

Randar68
11-03-2005, 03:04 PM
How do you guys, esp. Randar and Maurcie, know so much about the minors? I see you both live in Chicago, so it must take some extraordinary effort to keep as well informed as you are.

Sorry if this is common knowledge or you've answered this before, I'm just curious. :cool:

Contacts, vacations, family/business on the east coast that gets me to games. Video analysis plays a big part as well when available.

rdivaldi
11-03-2005, 03:12 PM
Mentally, sure. Physically? Have you seen Owens? What kind of physical maturity do you think he has over 22-23 year olds in AA? The guy gains nothing in terms of physical maturity. No power, no speed, nothing is gained by saying he is older so is more physically mature. That's just gross generalization in every sense. Ignoring player style/ability, ignoring his actual physical or mental maturity, etc.

I disagree with your hypothesis that a player doesn't gain any sort of physical advantage from the age of 22- 25. If you look at males in any sport they peak physically in their mid/late 20's. So a player at age 25 is much more likely to be more physically mature (better speed, strength, etc.) than when he was 22 years old.

Perhaps there is something to be said for Owens' lack of at bats, but I'm still skeptical of rating a 25 year old in AA in a top 10 list. I will admit though that my ranking of Rogo is sentimental. He's been in the organization for such a long time and been such a hard worker. Hey, we all have our biases...
:smile:

Randar68
11-03-2005, 03:36 PM
I disagree with your hypothesis that a player doesn't gain any sort of physical advantage from the age of 22- 25. If you look at males in any sport they peak physically in their mid/late 20's. So a player at age 25 is much more likely to be more physically mature (better speed, strength, etc.) than when he was 22 years old.

Perhaps there is something to be said for Owens' lack of at bats, but I'm still skeptical of rating a 25 year old in AA in a top 10 list. I will admit though that my ranking of Rogo is sentimental. He's been in the organization for such a long time and been such a hard worker. Hey, we all have our biases...
:smile:

That's fair enough, but Owens is not a power hitter. It's not like he's playing against 19 and 20 year olds. Also, speed isn't going to be an issue with regard to a player in that range. I've almost NEVER seen a player's speed improve between the ages of about 20 and 25. Usually they lose speed because of filling out in the upper body.

Once you reach AA, most of the guys who aren't pretty physically mature are the phenoms (and many of them are physically mature like D. Young or Prince Fielder)

maurice
11-03-2005, 03:42 PM
I see you both live in Chicago, so it must take some extraordinary effort to keep as well informed as you are.

Yeah, but it's a fun hobby if you love baseball. I really enjoy spending winter evenings at minor-league baseball games. The players are great, and it's an excellent value. Reading this forum, other similar sites, and about four box scores per day really isn't that time-consuming.

This year alone, I was fortunate enough to see games in Chicago, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Tucson, San Diego, Toledo, Indianapolis, Louisville, Birmingham, Charlotte, Winston-Salem, and Kannapolis. I'll probably do several of those again next year, and maybe throw Cincy, Pittsburgh, KC, Columbus, Buffalo, and Gary into the mix.

Norberto7
11-03-2005, 03:55 PM
Contacts, vacations, family/business on the east coast that gets me to games. Video analysis plays a big part as well when available.

Yeah, but it's a fun hobby if you love baseball. I really enjoy spending winter evenings at minor-league baseball games. The players are great, and it's an excellent value. Reading this forum, other similar sites, and about four box scores per day really isn't that time-consuming.

Yeah, I guess I can see how following along with these teams gives you a more wholisitic view of the Sox organization, which is pretty cool. And the value, too...last time I went to a minor league game we were adding up how many tickets, hot dogs, and beers we could get for the price of parking at USCF...and it was substantial!

A quick question: does the parent club have any more say in minor league affairs other than who plays for what team? Or another way of asking it, how much is the minors a reflection of the parent team, other than who plays for them?

caulfield12
11-04-2005, 12:40 PM
Obviously, the weak spots in the major league roster are at 3B (if we do not keep Crede long-term due to Boras), CF and possibly SS.

The White Sox have spent a lot of time NOT developing any quality players at that last position....think of Andy Gonzalez, Guillermo Reyes, Jason Dellaero....just to name a few. Of course, Caruso was with the Giants, and Wilson Valdez with the Marlins.

I am not sure that Valido is an everyday major league player...we shall see...they said the same things about Aaron Miles and David Eckstein, to name a couple, although Valido has more athletic ability.

Catching is a disaster and has been for a long time...I guess we contributed Humberto Quintero to Houston´s roster, but that is the extent of it. Mark Johnson never developed offensively, and Olivo, well.....Francisco Hernandez is probably the best, and he´s at least three and probably four years away.

I would like to see Anderson and Young really challenge Rowand next spring, although I have a feeling Anderson will be in RF with Dye at 1B.

Big time concerns about Rogowski and perhaps Sweeney hitting for enough power to play the corner outfield spots, 1B, or DH.

Glad not to see Felix Diaz or Jason Stumm, lol.

Randar68
11-04-2005, 12:51 PM
I am not sure that Valido is an everyday major league player...we shall see...they said the same things about Aaron Miles and David Eckstein, to name a couple, although Valido has more athletic ability.


Neither of those guys is in the same stratosphere with Valido defensively at SS and Valido just stole 50 bases. Miles has never been considered a SS prospect. He's a pylon at 2B, let alone SS.

Valido is a natural SS. We'll see if he hits in AA next year, but his AFL performance was encouraging being one of the least-advanced prospects there in terms of level of play during the regular season.

rdivaldi
11-04-2005, 02:30 PM
Neither of those guys is in the same stratosphere with Valido defensively at SS and Valido just stole 50 bases. Miles has never been considered a SS prospect. He's a pylon at 2B, let alone SS.

Valido is a natural SS. We'll see if he hits in AA next year, but his AFL performance was encouraging being one of the least-advanced prospects there in terms of level of play during the regular season.

Totally agree. Valido is the best SS prospect the White Sox have had since...... I can't remember it's been so long.

I wouldn't worry too much about catcher, AJ should be behind the plate for quite a few years to come. Hernandez should be ready to contribute by that time.

Randar68
11-04-2005, 03:02 PM
Totally agree. Valido is the best SS prospect the White Sox have had since...... I can't remember it's been so long.

I wouldn't worry too much about catcher, AJ should be behind the plate for quite a few years to come. Hernandez should be ready to contribute by that time.

Hey now, I still like Donny Lucy even though others do not! LOL! We'll see. Neither are truly top all-around catchers at this point, so there's a long way to go. Chris Stewart could be a reasonable back-up catcher in the next couple of years. Will be interesting to see how he does in AAA next year (assuming that's where he starts)

rdivaldi
11-04-2005, 03:22 PM
Hey now, I still like Donny Lucy even though others do not! LOL! We'll see. Neither are truly top all-around catchers at this point, so there's a long way to go. Chris Stewart could be a reasonable back-up catcher in the next couple of years. Will be interesting to see how he does in AAA next year (assuming that's where he starts)

Lucy's okay, but are we convinced that he has the skills to make it to the big leagues? Widger just signed for next season, so I guess we're okay until 2007 (having a starter and a backup). Gives these guys another year to show us something....

Randar68
11-04-2005, 03:31 PM
Lucy's okay, but are we convinced that he has the skills to make it to the big leagues? Widger just signed for next season, so I guess we're okay until 2007 (having a starter and a backup). Gives these guys another year to show us something....

Lucy is very skilled behind the plate. It's what he does in the batter's box that has been questioned. He is a better defensive catcher than any of those taken in the first few arounds around him last year.

We shall see. The timing of the injury could not have been worse. He really needed to get as many AB's as possible this year.

caulfield12
11-04-2005, 03:39 PM
I remember when it was considered a near tragedy when we did not sign AJ Hinch and Bobby Seay. Turned out okay.

Valido, I have a few concerns because of the steroids situation.

Pedro Lopez is a favorite of Ozzie´s but seems like he will be a career .220 hitter in the majors, like Andres Blanco on the Royals, similar players.

Stolen bases do not mean too much to me in the minors....look at Marcus Lawton, Podsednik or Rudy Yan for three examples.

Valido needs to have one more solid offensive season in AA...and Uribe does not look to be going anywhere anytime soon. Certainly not in the next two seasons.

Randar68
11-04-2005, 04:01 PM
Valido, I have a few concerns because of the steroids situation..

:rolleyes: You don't have any clue about what the real situation was and you're you just blanket-statementing the guy. Silly. Naive.

Pedro Lopez is a favorite of Ozzie´s but seems like he will be a career .220 hitter in the majors, like Andres Blanco on the Royals, similar players.

Stolen bases do not mean too much to me in the minors....look at Marcus Lawton, Podsednik or Rudy Yan for three examples.

Yan couldn't get the ball out of the infield on a consistent basis. He had the ability to steal bases at the MLB level. Podsednik? *** are you talking about? Valido is a very intelligent basestealer. Carlos Beltran-esque in that regard. Great reads of pitchers/catcher, when to run, instincts. You can't teach that.

Pedro Lopez went from High-A ball in 2004 and was in AAA and the majors this summer because of his glove. Nobody cared if he hit at those levels or not. He's been pushed way too quickly, but the parent club needed a defensive SS ready to fill in for a short stint if needed. Not as impressed by Lopez's bat as Valido's, but he is very young still and plays terrific defense at SS.


Valido needs to have one more solid offensive season in AA...and Uribe does not look to be going anywhere anytime soon. Certainly not in the next two seasons.

LOL! Valido needs to be productive and continue to develop as he moves up? Really? So glad we have you to point this out to us!

maurice
11-04-2005, 04:03 PM
Lucy's okay, but are we convinced that he has the skills to make it to the big leagues?

The Sox drafted him for his defensive skills and took a lot of heat at the time for passing on better offensive catchers. That being said, he and Hernandez are a long way away from the bigs, so we'll just have to wait and see.

caulfield12
11-04-2005, 04:58 PM
:rolleyes: You don't have any clue about what the real situation was and you're you just blanket-statementing the guy. Silly. Naive.



Yan couldn't get the ball out of the infield on a consistent basis. He had the ability to steal bases at the MLB level. Podsednik? *** are you talking about? Valido is a very intelligent basestealer. Carlos Beltran-esque in that regard. Great reads of pitchers/catcher, when to run, instincts. You can't teach that.

Pedro Lopez went from High-A ball in 2004 and was in AAA and the majors this summer because of his glove. Nobody cared if he hit at those levels or not. He's been pushed way too quickly, but the parent club needed a defensive SS ready to fill in for a short stint if needed. Not as impressed by Lopez's bat as Valido's, but he is very young still and plays terrific defense at SS.




LOL! Valido needs to be productive and continue to develop as he moves up? Really? So glad we have you to point this out to us!


What in Scott Podsednik´s minor league background told you that he was going to steal 80 bases in a season? Nothing.

There have been hundreds of players that stole fifty or more in the minors that never stole one in the majors.

Carlos Beltran compared to Rob Valido, get real. Next you are going to say he glides along like Devon White on the basepaths. Beltran is not a great instinctive basestealer...he makes up for it with his speed and closing strides.

maurice
11-04-2005, 05:43 PM
What in Scott Podsednik´s minor league background told you that he was going to steal 80 bases in a season?

What season was that?

Podsednik had 190 SB over his minor-league career. Like a lot of guys, he started off fast but raw, and got better over time as his skill level improved.

Beltran is not a great instinctive basestealer...he makes up for it with his speed and closing strides.

Wow . . . just wow.

There are many players faster than Beltran. There are few (if any) who are better at stealing bases, precisely because of his skill at stealing bases. Valido is similar in this respect. He doesn't have top speed, but still manages to steal a high number of bases at an excellent rate.

caulfield12
11-04-2005, 06:01 PM
What season was that?

Podsednik had 190 SB over his minor-league career. Like a lot of guys, he started off fast but raw, and got better over time as his skill level improved.



Wow . . . just wow.

There are many players faster than Beltran. There are few (if any) who are better at stealing bases, precisely because of his skill at stealing bases. Valido is similar in this respect. He doesn't have top speed, but still manages to steal a high number of bases at an excellent rate.

Okay, Beltran is not as fast as say, Willie Harris or Rodney McCray, but he is certainly not slow by any means. He is definitely much faster than Aaron Rowand.

Valentin was the best Sox baserunner for five years and he had, at best, average speed. Ventura was also a good technical baserunner, albeit incredibly slow.

The question with Valido is how this translates at the major league level...with better arms and faster times for pitchers getting rid of the ball and various methods of holding and picking off runners....we will see.

Jeremy Reed is a player that put up similar stolen base numbers, but has not done nearly as well as in the minors with the Mariners in this regard.

maurice
11-04-2005, 06:13 PM
Okay, Beltran is not as fast as say, Willie Harris or Rodney McCray, but he is certainly not slow by any means. He is definitely much faster than Aaron Rowand.

*** does this have to do with Beltran's ridiculous SB% or Valido's projected SB%?!? Even Rowand is capable of swiping 20+ bags at a decent rate.

Valentin was the best Sox baserunner for five years and he had, at best, average speed. Ventura was also a good technical baserunner, albeit incredibly slow. The question with Valido is how this translates at the major league level.

Neither Ventura nor Valentin ever stole even half as many bases at any level as Valido stole this year.

Jeremy Reed is a player that put up similar stolen base numbers, but has not done nearly as well as in the minors with the Mariners in this regard.

A much better comparison than Robin Ventura. The jury is still out on the MLB SB abilty of both Reed and Valido. We'll see.

rdivaldi
11-04-2005, 10:47 PM
The Sox drafted him for his defensive skills and took a lot of heat at the time for passing on better offensive catchers. That being said, he and Hernandez are a long way away from the bigs, so we'll just have to wait and see.

Honestly maurice I wouldn't be too surprised if Hernandez breaks out big time next year. Yeah he didn't fare too well in Kanny, but from what I've heard he was absolutely tearing the ball up in Great Falls. I just have a feeling that he's going to be more prepared in 2006 and he'll be up in Winston-Salem by the end of the year.

Mr. White Sox
11-04-2005, 11:26 PM
Where will these guys start next year? Will they be promoted in the offseason?
----------------------
Ryan Sweeney, Jerry Owens, Chris Young, Rob Valido
----------------------

Also, do you think Owens has the ability to "fix" his SB% and be a more technical baserunner? If he could get good reads, does he have Podsednik-like ability?

How do Jerry Owens and Chris Young compare, speed-wise?

Last question:
of the four Sox OF prospects, which do you think will be traded? Which would you wish wouldn't be traded?
Personally, I'd like to see Brian Anderson or Jerry Owens used in trades only if need be, and Ryan Sweeney and Chris Young hopefully will stay.

Randar68
11-07-2005, 10:37 AM
Honestly maurice I wouldn't be too surprised if Hernandez breaks out big time next year. Yeah he didn't fare too well in Kanny, but from what I've heard he was absolutely tearing the ball up in Great Falls. I just have a feeling that he's going to be more prepared in 2006 and he'll be up in Winston-Salem by the end of the year.

It was an unfortunate season for 2 reasons.

1) Lucy missed so much time due to injury.
2) Hernandez was really turning it around the 3 weeks before Lucy came back from the DL.

I think it would have been great to see Hernandez stay at Kanny for the rest of the year, but there just wasn't enough playing time to be had.

He's still raw, and I would expect them to take it slow and work Francisco the whole season in Kanny next year, with Lucy in W-S. At this point, they'll both be better off if they just can spend an entire year healthy in a full-season league.

Randar68
11-07-2005, 10:48 AM
Where will these guys start next year? Will they be promoted in the offseason?
----------------------
Ryan Sweeney, Jerry Owens, Chris Young, Rob Valido
----------------------

I think it would be wise to start Sweeney back in AA if his wrists are 100% healthy. I want to see him turning on the inside pitches and displaying a little more consistent power. Charlotte can be a mind-**** for young hitters, especially if they aren't natural HR hitters when they reach that level. Sweeney is mature enough to be immune to this, IMO, but I would still like to see him in AA for a month or 2 minimum. With the glut of OF'ers, would be good to take their time with a guy like Sweeney if they still think he will end up in a corner OF spot.

Jerry Owens will be in AAA. Will be interesting to see how his hitting style translates to a park with far less open space in the OF to work with. Can he improve his SB%? Yeah, no doubt. It's something he needs to continue to work on. I imagine he'll be getting a lot of work in with Pods and Rock Raines in spring training. From the people in AA who saw him play a lot, they indicated he is a better base-stealer than his numbers show. We'll see.

Valido will start in AA. He's pushing Lopez probably beyond what Lopez's bat can handle, but he's the gem of our IF prospects. We'll see how he does hitting in the 1 or 2 spot in the order for Razor Shines.

Chris Young. He's an interesting case. The way he finished the year, and getting a taste of the action in the AFL, I think he will probably start in AAA after getting some time in big league camp in the spring. I wouldn't mind seeing him go back to AA for a month or 2 and show that he can continue to build on the second half performance of 2005, but I think he'll have a good showing in spring training meaning he goes to AAA.

Owens and Young are pretty even speed-wise. Owens may be a hair faster.

Last question:
of the four Sox OF prospects, which do you think will be traded? Which would you wish wouldn't be traded?
Personally, I'd like to see Brian Anderson or Jerry Owens used in trades only if need be, and Ryan Sweeney and Chris Young hopefully will stay.

I wouldn't trade Chris Young unless it brought me a talent like Beltran, Texiera, a true Ace #1 starter, etc. Anderson, Sweeney and Owens all are tradeable. Anderson and Sweeney probably have more value because they are prospects that teams either REALLY like or have big questions about. Not a LOT of middle ground. So, some teams out there might value them almost as highly as a guy like Chris Young in a trade.

caulfield12
11-07-2005, 11:02 AM
I wouldn't trade Chris Young unless it brought me a talent like Beltran, Texiera, a true Ace #1 starter, etc. Anderson, Sweeney and Owens all are tradeable. Anderson and Sweeney probably have more value because they are prospects that teams either REALLY like or have big questions about. Not a LOT of middle ground. So, some teams out there might value them almost as highly as a guy like Chris Young in a trade.

Do you really think that Chris Young is going to get us someone like that in return¿

How many busts have we had in the outfield in the last 10-20 years¿ Rowand is about the only regular we produced, along with Mike Cameron.

Jimmy Hurst, Kenny Williams and Daryl Boston never materialized. Borchard. Jeff Abbott. Julio Ramirez, although he was really a Marlin, essentially.

The White Sox simply have not produced any prospects at catcher (or failed with the likes of Kurt Brown and Skinner) and starting pitching has been a disaster as well, with the exceptions of Buehrle and Kip Wells, unless you want to claim Garland.

Randar68
11-07-2005, 11:08 AM
The White Sox simply have not produced any prospects at catcher (or failed with the likes of Kurt Brown and Skinner) and starting pitching has been a disaster as well, with the exceptions of Buehrle and Kip Wells, unless you want to claim Garland.

Teams don't give a rat's ass if you have produced a MLB-quality OF'er in the last 100 years. They do their own scouting and if they like your player, they like him... end of story.

Rowand, Jeremy Reed, Cameron, Maggs, Carlos Lee... yeah, terrible track record... :rolleyes:

Do I think we could get someone like that for Chris Young? That wasn't the question. That's the only kind of talent I'd trade him for at this point. I think he's an Alfonso Soriano type of talent with a better eye at the plate and very good defensive CF (with an average arm)...

Those players are far more rare than Owens, Sweeney or Anderson, even if they all reach their highest-ceiling projections.

I give you another chance and that is the quality of post I am reading? GMAB. Back to "ignore"...

caulfield12
11-07-2005, 01:31 PM
Teams don't give a rat's ass if you have produced a MLB-quality OF'er in the last 100 years. They do their own scouting and if they like your player, they like him... end of story.

Rowand, Jeremy Reed, Cameron, Maggs, Carlos Lee... yeah, terrible track record... :rolleyes:

Do I think we could get someone like that for Chris Young? That wasn't the question. That's the only kind of talent I'd trade him for at this point. I think he's an Alfonso Soriano type of talent with a better eye at the plate and very good defensive CF (with an average arm)...

Those players are far more rare than Owens, Sweeney or Anderson, even if they all reach their highest-ceiling projections.

I give you another chance and that is the quality of post I am reading? GMAB. Back to "ignore"...

Ordonez and Lee were not players that were drafted and developed. They were signed out of Venezuela and Panama. We have a horrible record in this regard, argue all you want or choose to ignore, it´s up to you.

The fact remains that Rowand is about all that we have produced for the last 6-7 years. The jury is still out on Reed. For you to mention him in that list is a bit premature. Obviously the White Sox thought his upside had already been reached in the minors, or they would not have been so quick to deal him.

What has Anthony Webster done? He is yet another example of a hyped Sox outfield prospect, he was once 4 or 5 on our Top 10 BA Prospect list.

Cameron became an all-star in Seattle for one season but never lived up to his billing as a 30-30 type player on a consistent basis. We were lucky to be able to get Konerko for him....although 2-3 years ago, many would have preferred to have Cameron back when the Sox were struggling to find an everyday CF.

Tragg
11-07-2005, 01:32 PM
Do you really think that Chris Young is going to get us someone like that in return¿



That's not the point. It's his value to US. Having a mere 1 prospect you really need to hold onto is pretty good - beats having 5 of them you refuse to do anything with.

Randar68
11-07-2005, 01:50 PM
Ordonez and Lee were not players that were drafted and developed. They were signed out of Venezuela and Panama. We have a horrible record in this regard, argue all you want or choose to ignore, it´s up to you.

The fact remains that Rowand is about all that we have produced for the last 6-7 years. The jury is still out on Reed. For you to mention him in that list is a bit premature. Obviously the White Sox thought his upside had already been reached in the minors, or they would not have been so quick to deal him.

What has Anthony Webster done? He is yet another example of a hyped Sox outfield prospect, he was once 4 or 5 on our Top 10 BA Prospect list.

Cameron became an all-star in Seattle for one season but never lived up to his billing as a 30-30 type player on a consistent basis. We were lucky to be able to get Konerko for him....although 2-3 years ago, many would have preferred to have Cameron back when the Sox were struggling to find an everyday CF.

*** does it matter if they were drafted or signed out of some Latin American country as a teenager? Hell, it takes more effort to develop those guys than college draftees.

Again, we developed 3 All-Star OF'ers (2 of them winning Silver Slugger Awards in the last several years) and a gold glover in the last 10 years or so. You want to call that a bad track record?

Lay off the hashish and try facts, reality, and a reasoned thought process before posting.

I placed you on my ignore list because frankly, your posts are uninformed, contain WRONG information, are knee-jerk, naive, simply ignorant, or a bad combination of all of the above.

The only reason I've responded to you today is because others are quoting your posts and they contain gross misrepresentations of the facts.

Man Soo Lee
11-07-2005, 05:36 PM
A recent Gammons' column (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2215223) (Insider required) included one team's ranking of the top prospects in baseball:



And the 10 best prospects:


1. Jeremy Hermedia, of, Florida
2. Delmon Young, of, Tampa Bay
3. Brandon Wood, ss, Angels
4. Chris Young, cf, Chicago White Sox
5. Francisco Liriano, lhp, Minnesota
6. Prince Fielder, Milwaukee
7. Andy Marte, 3b, Atlanta
8. Billy Butler, of, K.C.
9. Ian Stewart, 3b, Colorado
10. Jarrod Saltamacchi, c, Atlanta

jercha
11-08-2005, 11:41 AM
Do you really think that Chris Young is going to get us someone like that in return¿

How many busts have we had in the outfield in the last 10-20 years¿ Rowand is about the only regular we produced, along with Mike Cameron.

Jimmy Hurst, Kenny Williams and Daryl Boston never materialized. Borchard. Jeff Abbott. Julio Ramirez, although he was really a Marlin, essentially.

The White Sox simply have not produced any prospects at catcher (or failed with the likes of Kurt Brown and Skinner) and starting pitching has been a disaster as well, with the exceptions of Buehrle and Kip Wells, unless you want to claim Garland.

Jimmy Hurst was a First Baseman, how about Lance Johnson, Chris Singleton, Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez for Outfielders (although Lance Johnson was AAA prospect when we got him from Cardinals). You also forgot Mike Sirotka, Jack McDowell, Melido Perez (KC), Wilson Alverez (Texas), James Baldwin, and Jason Bere who were pitchers developed in White Sox Farm and had good Major League years. Few of the players on my list were drafted by other teams, but were polished to final product by White Sox system.

jercha
11-08-2005, 11:50 AM
Jimmy Hurst was a First Baseman, how about Lance Johnson, Chris Singleton, Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez for Outfielders (although Lance Johnson was AAA prospect when we got him from Cardinals). You also forgot Mike Sirotka, Jack McDowell, Melido Perez (KC), Wilson Alverez (Texas), James Baldwin, and Jason Bere who were pitchers developed in White Sox Farm and had good Major League years. Few of the players on my list were drafted by other teams, but were polished to final product by White Sox system.

Correction, Jimmy Hurst was a Outfielder, I got him mixed up with Eddie Pearson who was another can't miss bust.

bobowhite
11-08-2005, 03:45 PM
The best stolen base guys tend to display a certain amount of speed, especially at the lower levels of minor league ball. Once you get to AAA the catchers tend to be a mix of older, veteran guys (as in emergency call-ups to the major league team) and younger studs, who are still older than many of their AAA teammates. This combination tends to keep even the best SB guys down at AAA. At AA and below, stealing attempts are still most often called by the manager. (N.B. I said "most") Stolen base guys normally have a lot of adjusting to do when a) they are calling their own attempts (at least most of their straight steal attempts) b) facing major league pitchers with major league moves and c) facing major league catchers with major league throwing arms.

I recall a minor league in Japan that had SB leaders in the low teens. It just wasn't something that was being worked on at that level. On the other hand, I played on one minor league team where each member of the outfield had 40 steals in a 122 game season. As the starting catcher of that team I would have had 20 steals of third that season if half of them weren't called wild pitches or passed balls. When on second and reading the opposition's signs, it isn't hard to figure out when a dirtbusting curveball is coming.

caulfield12
11-08-2005, 07:30 PM
Jimmy Hurst was a First Baseman, how about Lance Johnson, Chris Singleton, Carlos Lee, Magglio Ordonez for Outfielders (although Lance Johnson was AAA prospect when we got him from Cardinals). You also forgot Mike Sirotka, Jack McDowell, Melido Perez (KC), Wilson Alverez (Texas), James Baldwin, and Jason Bere who were pitchers developed in White Sox Farm and had good Major League years. Few of the players on my list were drafted by other teams, but were polished to final product by White Sox system.

Chris Singleton came from the Yankees if I am not mistaken.

Johnson was stuck behind Coleman, McGee, etc. Their outfield was loaded back in the mid to late 80´s.

maurice
11-28-2005, 05:36 PM
It conveniently converts my Top 12 into a far more aesthetically pleasing Top 10. :cool:

Rank - Name - Position
1 - Chris Young - CF
2 - Ryan Sweeney - OF
3 - Rob Valido - SS
4 - Casey Rogowski - 1B
5 - Jeff Bajenaru - RHP
6 - Josh Fields - 3B
7 - Lance Broadway - RHP
8 - Sean Tracey - RHP
9 - Ray Liotta - LHP
10 - Jerry Owens - OF

Hagan
11-28-2005, 11:48 PM
1. Chris Young
2. Brian Anderson
3. Ryan Sweeney
4. Ray Liotta
5. Lance Broadway
6. Robert Valido
7. Josh Fields
8. Jerry Owens
9. Ryan Rodriguez
10. Casey Rogowski

Here is what I think it is as of now

caulfield12
11-29-2005, 08:21 AM
1. Chris Young
2. Brian Anderson
3. Ryan Sweeney
4. Ray Liotta
5. Lance Broadway
6. Robert Valido
7. Josh Fields
8. Jerry Owens
9. Ryan Rodriguez
10. Casey Rogowski

Here is what I think it is as of now

Liotta should be behind Broadway.

Valido should be higher.

R. Rodriguez would not be on many lists.

rdivaldi
11-29-2005, 10:49 AM
I guess I'll amend mine as well....

1 - Chris Young
2 - Ryan Sweeney
3 - Rob Valido
4 - Ray Liotta
5 - Kris Honel
6 - Josh Fields
7 - Ryan Rodriguez
8 - Casey Rogowski
9 - Lance Broadway
10 - Jerry Owens

HM: Corwin Malone, Ricardo Nanita, Micah Schnurstein, Chris Getz, Jack Egbert, Adam Russell

Hagan
11-29-2005, 05:05 PM
Liotta should be behind Broadway.

Valido should be higher.

R. Rodriguez would not be on many lists.

I do not agree. Liotta had about the same ground/fly ball ratio as broadway and his ops was much lower than broadways. I know that broadway had a better K/BB ratio but this year it looked like Liotta had a better year and he is still very young.

I know Rodriguez would not be on many lists but i put him on because I like him. He probably shouldnt be on a list but i gave him a favortisim boost.

Valido should be where he is. Yes he has good baserunning skills but he has very little power and has poor plate patience. He has to have one or the other to be higher on the list. Right now with what he has he doesnt have enough plate patience to be a top two in the order. His defensive numbers were very good but he has a lot to work on offensively still.

caulfield12
11-29-2005, 07:37 PM
I guess I'll amend mine as well....

1 - Chris Young
2 - Ryan Sweeney
3 - Rob Valido
4 - Ray Liotta
5 - Kris Honel
6 - Josh Fields
7 - Ryan Rodriguez
8 - Casey Rogowski
9 - Lance Broadway
10 - Jerry Owens

HM: Corwin Malone, Ricardo Nanita, Micah Schnurstein, Chris Getz, Jack Egbert, Adam Russell

What have you seen from Honel to make you put him so high on your list when most don´t have in the Top 10?

caulfield12
11-29-2005, 07:38 PM
I do not agree. Liotta had about the same ground/fly ball ratio as broadway and his ops was much lower than broadways. I know that broadway had a better K/BB ratio but this year it looked like Liotta had a better year and he is still very young.

I know Rodriguez would not be on many lists but i put him on because I like him. He probably shouldnt be on a list but i gave him a favortisim boost.

Valido should be where he is. Yes he has good baserunning skills but he has very little power and has poor plate patience. He has to have one or the other to be higher on the list. Right now with what he has he doesnt have enough plate patience to be a top two in the order. His defensive numbers were very good but he has a lot to work on offensively still.

Broadway and Haeger are much more polished pitchers in terms of major league readiness. Not necessarily more upside (Broadway is probably a 3 at best and 5 at worst) like Gio, but also more likely to make a lasting impact IMO.

A. Cavatica
11-29-2005, 08:07 PM
HM: Corwin Malone, Ricardo Nanita, Micah Schnurstein, Chris Getz, Jack Egbert, Adam Russell

Of your honorable mentions I would give Getz the best chance of moving fast. Would you agree? He seems pretty polished as a hitter.

Hagan
11-29-2005, 11:12 PM
Broadway and Haeger are much more polished pitchers in terms of major league readiness. Not necessarily more upside (Broadway is probably a 3 at best and 5 at worst) like Gio, but also more likely to make a lasting impact IMO.

the problem with haeger right now is that he has a poor strike out to Walk ratio which is .8.

rdivaldi
11-30-2005, 10:52 AM
What have you seen from Honel to make you put him so high on your list when most don´t have in the Top 10?

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt due to his elbow problems. The kid was outstanding when healthy and actually started pitching pretty well at the end of last season. The optimist in me thinks he's going to surge in '06 and regain his form.

rdivaldi
11-30-2005, 10:57 AM
Of your honorable mentions I would give Getz the best chance of moving fast. Would you agree? He seems pretty polished as a hitter.

There's definitely a good chance that he'll move through the system quickly, he does have good mechanics and understands the game well. But I'm not sure of his upside, seems to be a future utility player.

Personally I'm watching Rodriguez very, very closely. Back in '02 he, Haigwood, and B-Mac were all thought of very highly in Rookie Ball. The other 2 have made their move, I think it's about time that he busts out. He has the talent, now he needs to put it all together.

Randar68
11-30-2005, 11:35 AM
There's definitely a good chance that he'll move through the system quickly, he does have good mechanics and understands the game well. But I'm not sure of his upside, seems to be a future utility player.

Personally I'm watching Rodriguez very, very closely. Back in '02 he, Haigwood, and B-Mac were all thought of very highly in Rookie Ball. The other 2 have made their move, I think it's about time that he busts out. He has the talent, now he needs to put it all together.

Yep, Rodriguez was always a higher-ceiling prospect than Haigwood, IMO. Will be curious to see what kind of progress he, Adam Russell, Lumsden and Whisler make. Liotta moving up will be a good test as well. What's going to happen to his K:BB:IP numbers as he faces better hitters?

Russell is a really intriguing prospect and I've always liked Whisler, he just needs to understand how good he can be if he just attacks hitters and stay healthy. Saw Lumsden in 2004, and the guy is for real. Looking for him to really break out in 2006.

Getz is intriguing, but I agree, I see him more as a utility infielder. He's not as good a fielder as Pedro Lopez, and aside from walks, he and Lopez have similar production at the plate, IMO. Slap-hitter, no power, yet Lopez is a far better defensive player...

maurice
11-30-2005, 05:15 PM
Rodriguez started off slowly last year but really picked it up down the stretch. He has a chance to make a huge leap forward in 2006.

Getz looked good against low-level competition, but so do a lot of college players. IMO, the jury's out until he shows what he can do in the high-minors. Definitely a slap hitter and not good enough defensively to play SS.

California Sox
11-30-2005, 05:20 PM
Is Getz going to start out at Birmingham? He seems advanced enough for that. A 1-2 of Getz and Valido would certainly be exciting.

I don't think Getz has a ton of upside, but he could be a Pods/Eckstein type who hits leadoff. From a second baseman, that wouldn't be half bad.

maurice
11-30-2005, 05:38 PM
Is Getz going to start out at Birmingham?

There's a very good chance, IMHO.

Randar68
11-30-2005, 06:12 PM
Is Getz going to start out at Birmingham? He seems advanced enough for that. A 1-2 of Getz and Valido would certainly be exciting.

To this point, the Sox have tried to put him in a position to play SS as much as possible, as I believe they see him as a possible utility IF'er. The more he plays SS and the better grasp of his abilities there the Sox have, the better the position they are in to project him internally.

That said, I'm not as high on Getz as others. He played college ball at Wake Forest and Michigan and played against relatively weak competition for an experienced college player in his pro debut. Will he start in AA? I dunno, seems he could probably start in High-A or AA depending on who the Barons have at 2B and if Pedro Lopez will be moved to Charlotte to start the season.

rdivaldi
11-30-2005, 10:09 PM
Will be curious to see what kind of progress he, Adam Russell, Lumsden and Whisler make.

I'll be honest, I didn't see Whisler pick at all this year (probably better than I didn't). I never quite got a good idea of what he was capable of, as he seemed to be as good of a hitter as he was a pitcher. What do we think he is destined for? Starter? Reliever?

Randar68
11-30-2005, 10:49 PM
I'll be honest, I didn't see Whisler pick at all this year (probably better than I didn't). I never quite got a good idea of what he was capable of, as he seemed to be as good of a hitter as he was a pitcher. What do we think he is destined for? Starter? Reliever?

Well, this season will be a big one for him. You have to take a chance on low-mileage arms that throw easy cheese 93-94 mph from the left side, is big and projectable.

That being said, when I have seen him, he looks dominating for a few innings, then suddenly can't find the zone. I would love to pick the brains of a couple Sox instructors/scouts on him...

He throws 5 pitches, has lots of movement, but just doesn't seem to repeat any of them reliably. Again, he is still a guy who has top of the rotation potential if he figures it out. Jason isn't as high on him as I am, but he's got a loopy-long swing, and IMO, won't be going back to the plate. He's a pitcher. You give a guy with his tools as much time as you can afford to figure it out.

rdivaldi
11-30-2005, 11:18 PM
He throws 5 pitches, has lots of movement, but just doesn't seem to repeat any of them reliably.

Then maybe we should go "Schilling" on him. For some of the older guys, do you remember the story of when Curt Schilling came from Baltimore to the Phillies? Basically Curt who was a struggling youngster at the time went up to the pitching coach who asked him, "So what do you throw?" Schilling replied that he had 6 pitches that he threw. With a smirk the pitching coach said, "Let's cut that down to 3". The rest is history.

Randar68
12-01-2005, 12:36 AM
Then maybe we should go "Schilling" on him. For some of the older guys, do you remember the story of when Curt Schilling came from Baltimore to the Phillies? Basically Curt who was a struggling youngster at the time went up to the pitching coach who asked him, "So what do you throw?" Schilling replied that he had 6 pitches that he threw. With a smirk the pitching coach said, "Let's cut that down to 3". The rest is history.

Definitely. As much as anything, a pitcher with his limited experience really needs to focus on as few pitches as possible in addition to consistent mechanics... Something Jason and I have talked about before with Wes.

rdivaldi
12-01-2005, 02:19 AM
Definitely. As much as anything, a pitcher with his limited experience really needs to focus on as few pitches as possible in addition to consistent mechanics... Something Jason and I have talked about before with Wes.

Can you identify which ones he should keep? Obviously his fastball, but what else can the young man keep in his repetoire?

DSpivack
12-01-2005, 04:14 AM
don't mean to hijack the thread, but it seems Owens, Young, and Brian Anderson have all been talked about a lot.

What about Ryan Sweeney? What does he project to? He's not really a big power guy, but isn't a leadoff type, either, right? And he is pretty much just a corner OF?

rdivaldi
12-01-2005, 09:45 AM
don't mean to hijack the thread, but it seems Owens, Young, and Brian Anderson have all been talked about a lot.

What about Ryan Sweeney? What does he project to? He's not really a big power guy, but isn't a leadoff type, either, right? And he is pretty much just a corner OF?

Give Ryan a chance to mature a bit and I think the power will show up. Yeah, he's a corner outfielder as he doesn't really have the speed to be a center fielder. He has a cannon of an arm, so it's pretty obvious to me that he's destined for RF. He's often compared to Jon Olerud in terms of his hitting, which ain't too shabby. Personally I think of all the prospects he's the closest to a "can't miss". His swing is a thing of beauty, and he makes solid contact more often than not even as he was playing against guys 2, 3, 4 years older than him in AA.

Randar68
12-01-2005, 10:25 AM
Give Ryan a chance to mature a bit and I think the power will show up. Yeah, he's a corner outfielder as he doesn't really have the speed to be a center fielder. He has a cannon of an arm, so it's pretty obvious to me that he's destined for RF. He's often compared to Jon Olerud in terms of his hitting, which ain't too shabby. Personally I think of all the prospects he's the closest to a "can't miss". His swing is a thing of beauty, and he makes solid contact more often than not even as he was playing against guys 2, 3, 4 years older than him in AA.

Yep, he's well put-together, but still could fill out a bit. In addition, that wrist really kept him from turning on inside pitches the second half.

In USCF, a lot of those AA doubles turn into HR's. 15 HR's? 20 HR's? Does he become a little more pull-conscious and hit more?

I don't know, but I think he's such a refined hitter, he could be one of those guys you hit 5th or 6th like Carlos Lee earlier in his career where he hits near around .300 with 15-20 HR's but drives in 80-90 runs.

The hardest part to project about Sweeney is his power, and he doesn't really project to corner-OF power, or 1st base power. He's not a CF'er either. If Chris Young becomes that 30/30 CF'er or better, then you don't worry and you play Sweeney in LF or RF depending on who else you have. Otherwise, it's hard to build an OF around him, IMO.

Randar68
12-01-2005, 10:39 AM
Can you identify which ones he should keep? Obviously his fastball, but what else can the young man keep in his repetoire?

His slider is a must-keep, can bust it on the knees of right-handers. Other than that, I haven't seen enough of him, particularly this year, to get a feel for which 3rd pitch is his best at the moment. His splitter was a work in progress, and we know how much success the Sox have had with teching the change-up.

From his arm angle I would guess his curve is probably the least-effective, and he could probably create some nice movement on a change-up, particularly down and in to lefties.

fastball, slider (to use against righties) and a change are probably his best bet at this time, but he has spent a lot of time on that splitter in the past...

I REALLY need to get out and see a few of these guys early in 2006. Whisler and Lummy are 2 high on my priority list.

caulfield12
12-01-2005, 11:59 AM
Can you identify which ones he should keep? Obviously his fastball, but what else can the young man keep in his repetoire?

What´s the report on Lemon, that huge pitcher we drafted from BYU a couple of years ago that was supposed to throw 96-99?

Is Jason Stumm no longer with the organization?

There was also a 1B that was pretty raw that I liked....I think his name was Brandon Allen or something like that, from the Gio draft. How is he doing? Hopefully not the next Eddie Pearson.

Randar68
12-01-2005, 12:20 PM
What´s the report on Lemon, that huge pitcher we drafted from BYU a couple of years ago that was supposed to throw 96-99?

Is Jason Stumm no longer with the organization?

There was also a 1B that was pretty raw that I liked....I think his name was Brandon Allen or something like that, from the Gio draft. How is he doing? Hopefully not the next Eddie Pearson.

Lemon made some progress this year but he is the definition of a project. Yes he throws that hard but control is the biggest thing with him, that and a use-able offspeed pitch.

Stumm was with the org last I heard.

Brandon Allen. Played at Bristol last year, Great Falls this year. Very athletic, lot's of raw power, good enough arm to play RF, plays 1B. VERY VERY RAW. Will be in Kanny next year. Made progress in Great Falls.

maurice
12-01-2005, 06:18 PM
With a little more age and strength (and a move from the Hoover Met to Knights Stadium and the Cell), Sweeney should be able to turn 2B into HR. Like all prospects, we'll just have to wait and see how that facet of the game turns out for him (and for Rogo).

Randar68
12-01-2005, 06:25 PM
With a little more age and strength (and a move from the Hoover Met to Knights Stadium and the Cell), Sweeney should be able to turn 2B into HR. Like all prospects, we'll just have to wait and see how that facet of the game turns out for him (and for Rogo).

I just don't see it without some tweaks on Rogo. Sweeney's lack of power is more a matter of approach, the wrist injury, and pitch-selection.

As I've state before, I don't think Rogo's swing-plane is conducive to generating the power his build and ball-contact would indicate.

rdivaldi
12-01-2005, 07:45 PM
As I've state before, I don't think Rogo's swing-plane is conducive to generating the power his build and ball-contact would indicate.

Yeah, he does create quite a bit of topspin with that swing. I think we'd all like to see Casey succeed, his attitude and personality would make him a fan favorite in Chicago.

I hope he gets to spend extended time with Thome during ST. Who better to help him out?

California Sox
12-01-2005, 09:06 PM
I hope he gets to spend extended time with Thome during ST. Who better to help him out?

I thought about that right when Thome signed. Remember, early in his minor league career, Thome was mostly a high-average hitter. Later on, he learned to jerk balls and the rest, as they say, is history.

ChiSoxRowand
01-24-2006, 03:13 PM
I have waited to do mine until now because of trades, plus BA comes out with their list tomorrow. I am only doing the top 10

1. Brandon McCarthy
2. Bobby Jenks
3. Brian Anderson
4. Lance Broadway
5. Jerry Owens
6. Ray Liotta
7. Josh Fields
8. Robert Valido
9. Sean Tracey
10. Ryan Sweeney

White Sox Randy
01-24-2006, 03:37 PM
Our system has sure thinned out considering that the top 3 on that list are assured of being on the major league roster so they won't be prospects - and after that no one on that list looks like a sure thing.

California Sox
01-24-2006, 05:45 PM
Bad news: McCarthy's not eligible.

Yeah, org is thinner than it has been. Have high hopes for Brandon Allen. He's raw but has promise.

ChiSoxRowand
01-24-2006, 08:22 PM
Bad news: McCarthy's not eligible.

Yeah, org is thinner than it has been. Have high hopes for Brandon Allen. He's raw but has promise.

I forgot he had more than 50 Innings for some reason, I also forgot about Rogowski. Here is my revised list

1. Jenks
2. Anderson
3. Broadway
4. Owens
5. Liotta
6. Fields
7. Valido
8. tracey
9. Sweeney
10. Rogowski

California Sox
01-24-2006, 10:12 PM
Here's my top ten:

1. Jenks, rhp
2. Anderson, cf
3. Sweeney, rf
4. Valido, ss
5. Fields, 3b
6. Broadway, rhp
7. Liotta, lhp
8. Owens, lf
9. Rogo, 1b
10. Hernandez, c

Ten to watch (not necessarily ten next best prospects but guys whose stock could jump dramatically.)
1. Lumsden, lhp
2. R. Rodriguez, lhp
3. Getz, 2b
4. Allen, 1b (barely)
5. Carter, 3b-1b
6. Cunningham, of
7. Richard, lhp
8. D.Rodriguez, rhp
9. Russell, rhp
10. Brooks, rhp

Anxious to see who BA goes with.

caulfield12
01-25-2006, 08:06 AM
Here's my top ten:

1. Jenks, rhp
2. Anderson, cf
3. Sweeney, rf
4. Valido, ss
5. Fields, 3b
6. Broadway, rhp
7. Liotta, lhp
8. Owens, lf
9. Rogo, 1b
10. Hernandez, c

Ten to watch (not necessarily ten next best prospects but guys whose stock could jump dramatically.)
1. Lumsden, lhp
2. R. Rodriguez, lhp
3. Getz, 2b
4. Allen, 1b (barely)
5. Carter, 3b-1b
6. Cunningham, of
7. Richard, lhp
8. D.Rodriguez, rhp
9. Russell, rhp
10. Brooks, rhp

Anxious to see who BA goes with.

I think Haeger is one of those fringe prospects like Josh Fogg that could have a pretty decent major league career. Lumsden definitely has a ton of potential...if healthy, he could easily be in the Top 4-6 position next season.

We have had a lot of problems developing catchers, and Hernandez regressed offensively last season. Some here like Lucy, the jury is still out on him. I see Getz more like an Aaron Miles or David Eckstein type...he will struggle to be a starter at the MLB level.

Antoine Gray was another kid I really liked. He played at Southern with Richie Weeks, but hasn´t hit for quite as much power as I would have expected.

Of course, you also have Stumm, Honel and Malone, former Top 10 prospects still with the organization.

Jeff Bajenaru is also a name that would come to mind for 11-15.