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richb2
11-02-2005, 11:22 AM
I am curious what the shape of our farm system is-please don't sugar coat things like in the past-like the white sox have done, we all remeber the players who were can't miss and never had success after triple a baseball. hJust curious tohear from people who know more than I do on this-I know we have one good player who won the triple crown but aftet that it is a mystery

Tekijawa
11-02-2005, 11:25 AM
SICK! Honestly!

From all I've heard we've got Stud Pitching and Stud OF's waiting in the Wing. It'll be interesting to see who gets the nod next year... I think we'll be safe for the next couple of years with McCarthy, Gio Gonzales, and Lance Broadway rounding out the top of our rotation with whomever we decide to keep from the 4 Studs we have now on the Big Ball club.

MadetoOrta
11-02-2005, 11:27 AM
Strong and deep. Here's [potentially] the Sox starting line-up in 2009:

C ????
1B Ryan Sweeney
2B Getz
SS Robert Valido
3B Josh Fields
LF Jerry Owens
CF Chris Young
RF Brian Anderson

P Brandon McCarthy, Sean Tracey, Daniel Haigwood, Gio Gonzalez

ALL HOME GROWN TALENT. I'm sure there are others I'm missing and some I'm over-valuing. We're in good shape.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 11:29 AM
I am curious what the shape of our farm system is-please don't sugar coat things like in the past-like the white sox have done, we all remeber the players who were can't miss and never had success after triple a baseball. hJust curious tohear from people who know more than I do on this-I know we have one good player who won the triple crown but aftet that it is a mystery

Every team/system has oodles and oodles of overhyped underproducing players. It comes with the territory. If you're too squeemish to get over it, don't bother trying to discuss the minors or player development, period. You won't be able to handle it.

That said, the Sox' system is probably around 10th best in the majors right now. Chris Young is probably the only potential perennial All-Star, but the Sox have a plethora of good young arms and lefties and are very deep in the OF. Couple young catchers have shown promise and Valido at SS could be our first every-day home-grown short-stop in more than 25 years, he could play Gold-glove quality defense today if we needed him.

1B and 3B are a bit weak in the organization.

MadetoOrta
11-02-2005, 11:32 AM
Randar,

Long term, how good is Brian Anderson? His defense seems first rate [better than Rowand] and he's got pop and some speed. Any comparisons?

Randar68
11-02-2005, 11:39 AM
Randar,

Long term, how good is Brian Anderson? His defense seems first rate [better than Rowand] and he's got pop and some speed. Any comparisons?

Well, IMO he'll move to RF in 2007 when Chris Young is ready, but he is a very good defender, as you say. He's a more natural CF'er than Rowand, has better instincts.

He has good pop, in a full-season he could hit 25-30 HR's, especially playing half his games at USCF. IMO He'll hit somewhere in the .290 range with a .340-.350 OBP. Basically, Aaron Rowand with about 10 HR's and 20-30 BB's more per season in his bat. His arm is top notch, too.

He'll be a good #5 hitter (Dye-like production?), IMO.

Tekijawa
11-02-2005, 11:39 AM
Randar,

Long term, how good is Brian Anderson? His defense seems first rate [better than Rowand] and he's got pop and some speed. Any comparisons?

I also enjoy his Homerun calls... I can't wait for the day of Rowand and Anderson in the booth calling the game!

Evman5
11-02-2005, 11:40 AM
Strong and deep. Here's [potentially] the Sox starting line-up in 2009:

C ????
1B Ryan Sweeney
2B Getz
SS Robert Valido
3B Josh Fields
LF Jerry Owens
CF Chris Young
RF Brian Anderson

P Brandon McCarthy, Sean Tracey, Daniel Haigwood, Gio Gonzalez

ALL HOME GROWN TALENT. I'm sure there are others I'm missing and some I'm over-valuing. We're in good shape.

I really don't think all those players will make it haha. But we do have some nice players.

Tekijawa
11-02-2005, 11:44 AM
I'm most excited about Gio, I don't know why, but I think that he'll be a Super Stud when he gets up here!

Randar68
11-02-2005, 11:56 AM
I'm most excited about Gio, I don't know why, but I think that he'll be a Super Stud when he gets up here!

Needs to stay healthy and prove his durability. Had 3 relatively minor injuries this season. Maximum effort pitcher.

kevingrt
11-02-2005, 11:59 AM
Well we still have Joe Borchard correct?

I honestly don't know much about our farm system. I know we have a stud in the outfield in Jerry Owens. Supposeably he is what the organization is really looking at for the future, more so then Brian Anderson. Josh Fields was a first round pick so he cannot be that bad, he is also a Cowboy. Ryan Sweeney also should turn out to be pretty good. And I have seen the pitcher Haigwood in person and he doesn't look that bad. But I have only once.

But does home grown talent matter that much? We had what four guys brought up with this team that won a world series? Mark Buehrle, Joe Crede, Frank Thomas, Brandon McCarthy, Aaron Rowand, and if you want Tadahito Iguchi.

So does it matter that much? I know you need a farm system with some hype because then you can trade highly touted prospects for currently quality players, but home grown talent does not mean as much as it might have meant 20 or so years ago.

Deuce
11-02-2005, 12:05 PM
The farm system looks great. Those that were ready for primetime saw some action this year, but there is a huge crop of young talent that look to make the majors in the next two years. Our problem is that we already have a good team at hand... and what a wonderful problem that is. :wink:

Randar68
11-02-2005, 12:07 PM
But does home grown talent matter that much? We had what four guys brought up with this team that won a world series? Mark Buehrle, Joe Crede, Frank Thomas, Brandon McCarthy, Aaron Rowand, and if you want Tadahito Iguchi.

Houston was predominantly a home-grown team. If you are going to contend on a reasonable payroll, it is absolutely vital to develop your own talent. Either through drafts or by identifying and acquiring young players throught professional baseball and developing them yourself. The recent Yankee dynasty was built based on home-grown talent (although it morphed into "sign your talent"). The Atlanta Braves have long been home-grown. It's a crucial phase of maintaining success without spending NY/Boston type of money.

And out of the prospects you mentioned, none has a higher ceiling than Chris Young. Jerry Owens is a possible replacement for Pods at the top of the order. Chris Young has 40-40 ability. Alfonso Soriano with plate discipline (although he'll still strike out 100 times a year)

richb2
11-02-2005, 12:10 PM
I am not sqeamish at all-just not an expert on the minor leagues and want an honest non-sugar coated answer. I am getting them thanks. We all know about the last two can't miss prospects reed and olivo-they might still be ok players. I agree with the one post some of these good players will never make the team they will be traded awya to acguire a prven name which is not bad. Radar who is the number one guy you think that is a can't miss? I would think some current memebers of the 005 team will stillbe here in 2 years lol I hope so. Borchard still a hot prospect that we can trade?

Randar68
11-02-2005, 12:17 PM
who is the number one guy you think that is a can't miss? I would think some current memebers of the 005 team will stillbe here in 2 years lol I hope so. Borchard still a hot prospect that we can trade?

"can't miss?"

Brandon McCarthy!!! :cool:

The highest ceiling prospect is Chris Young. But he could be only decent or he could be Andruw Jones-esque with more SB's (and an average arm)

There are several guys who will hit and be good players, IMO, but there's questions about how much of an impact they will have. Ryan Sweeney is going to hit. Will he hit with any power? Time will tell. Robert Valido is an absolute defensive STUD... will he hit enough and walk enough to be a #2 type hitter in the majors? Will the SB's translate as he moves up (only trailed Pods in the organization but played fewer games, had 50+ steals)

There are questions about a lot of these guys. If there weren't, they would be top 10 or top 25 talent in all of baseball.

Lance Broadway will reach the majors quickly, but he may not be anything more than a #3 pitcher (in our rotation that's GOOD though)

Hagan
11-02-2005, 12:18 PM
Randar,

Long term, how good is Brian Anderson? His defense seems first rate [better than Rowand] and he's got pop and some speed. Any comparisons?

Anderson is a good outfielder but he isnt as good as rowand in the field. He doesnt have that much speed and he has some power behind his bat. If i had to compair anderson to a major leaguer it would be shea hillenbrand with a little better plate patience.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 12:20 PM
Anderson is a good outfielder but he isnt as good as rowand in the field. He doesnt have that much speed and he has some power behind his bat. If i had to compair anderson to a major leaguer it would be shea hillenbrand with a little better plate patience.

:rolleyes:

knocko94
11-02-2005, 12:27 PM
Watching Anderson in the field, be it at any of the OF positions, he always looked really good out there. I'm not sure I ever saw him get a bad jump, he just knows what he's doing out there. And he might be faster than Rowand, and he has an outstanding arm.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 12:33 PM
Watching Anderson in the field, be it at any of the OF positions, he always looked really good out there. I'm not sure I ever saw him get a bad jump, he just knows what he's doing out there. And he might be faster than Rowand, and he has an outstanding arm.

BINGO. He's much bigger than Aaron, but he has deceptive speed and better instinct, routes, etc.

Rowand is a guy who has made the most of his ability, but Anderson is better, even if he doesn't run into walls... :redneck

DSpivack
11-02-2005, 12:34 PM
I don't mean to hijack this thread but is Brian Anderson ready to play in 2006? Or would we need to sign someone else to replace Carl?

lumpyspun
11-02-2005, 12:42 PM
I don't mean to hijack this thread but is Brian Anderson ready to play in 2006? Or would we need to sign someone else to replace Carl?

I'm not a major league scout or anything...but I personally saw Anderson hit the two homeruns against Seattle. He was the only one hitting the ball with any kind of conviction that night against Felix Hernandez. Safeco is known for a terrible place to hit homeruns and he had no problem that night. I was sold.

JimH
11-02-2005, 12:44 PM
I haven't seen any of the 2005 draftees play but have been fortunate to see several others. Bear in mind I'm just a fan like everyone else here, so my opinions and a dollar will get you a lotto ticket, that's it.

Chris Young took the biggest strides this year and he's still relatively raw. His plate discipline improved in the 2nd half, along with his OF instincts, positioning, and of course his power showed itself. He knows what he's doing on the basepaths too. His only average tool appears to be his arm, but speed and instincts and positioning can compensate. I see him as a major league starting CF by 2008 at the very latest, possibly sooner.

Valido is excellent defensively and made strides with the bat. He's arguably the best base stealing prospect in the organization and he's another guy whose plate discipline improved. A very smart player, not afraid, and the only question to me is how much he'll hit.

Ryan Sweeney has a great batting stroke and lest we forget, he was only 20 years old this year and he came on strong at the end. Double A Southern League has some nasty pitchers, Sweeney did very well. As for his power, he is a big guy and should get stronger, although he missed several HR's by hitting line drives high off the wall. Personally I'm not worried at all about his power at this point. He has a great arm, a RF arm, and he's excellent defensively. I see him as the starting RF after Dye moves on.

Brian Anderson has great pop in his bat and can probably play all three OF positions well. KW says he's ready. I'd like to see his plate discipline improve because at this point I feel he's overmatched by a decent breaking ball. It wouldn't shock me if he's in AAA for at least part of 2006, but personnel decisions and injuries will surely factor in to that equation.

Jerry Owens had great stats and could be a 4th OF guy as soon as 2006, although Guillen didn't seem to think he was ready yet. He adds speed, contact hitting, and good defense. While it's very tough to have a rookie as your #4 OF, he may very well bring enough to the table to convince Guillen he's worth it. I like Owens a lot.

Personally I think all five of the above will play well in the major leagues.

As for pitching, Ray Liotta is very smart on the mound and knows how to get hitters out. Ditto for Daniel Haigwood. They are both lefty starters. For me it's too soon to tell on Gio Gonzalez, he's very young and needs to be more durable.

bobowhite
11-02-2005, 01:03 PM
I think that the Barons outfield (all 3) will move up to Charlotte this year. None of them will be in the majors (apart from a brief stint due to injury or a September try out) in 2006.

Anderson will be in the outfield at USCF in 2006 although he may be the designated 4th outfielder.

Sweeney has at least one more year in the minors, probably AAA this year.

McCarthy will start at USCF.

Moving pitching up from AA to AAA may really decide who is ready to move up a year or two later to USCF.

gobears1987
11-02-2005, 02:03 PM
Anderson is in as the 4th outfielder. He is ready. I've been impressed with everything I've seen of him. I think Sweeney may get a roster spot in place of Timo. Both will get good playi8ng time because of Ozzie's Sunday line-ups, which is not a bad ting.

I think our farm system's true strength is pitching. McCarthy will be great as a starter this year in the bigs. I also think that Bajenaru can be good in a year.

As goood as our farm system is, our team was still built around people we acquired who were bascially seen as misfits by most. We did the opposite of money ball and got great players. See Dye, Podsednik, Jenks, and AJ. I think our farm is good, but we should still have a balance of home grown and acquired players.

MadetoOrta
11-02-2005, 02:09 PM
Randar,

Speaking of Lance Broadway, my pals from Mt. Carmel are fuming over not drafting Cesar Carillo out of Miami University and Mt. Carmel High School. Compare Broadway and Carillo - no sugarcoating. Did we screw up not picking Cesar?

rdivaldi
11-02-2005, 02:35 PM
Did we screw up not picking Cesar?

IMO yes....

JimH
11-02-2005, 03:43 PM
Carillo has more "live" stuff, including more velocity on his fastball. He is a tall wiry kid who has yet to fill out. Broadway, at least in the concensus of scouts, probably has more pitching smarts at this point, changes speeds better, and has better breaking stuff.

Based on how fast Carillo came out of the gate in pro ball, there's bound to be some 2nd guessing. Broadway was rising up the draft charts like a rocket and the White Sox had honed in on him for months. Wilder had been following him for a while.

I guess like all of these draft decisions, time will tell.

maurice
11-02-2005, 03:45 PM
Anderson is Rowand with more talent but less experience.

Anderson is better, even if he doesn't run into walls... :redneck

On a serious note, I actually saw Anderson knock himself silly in a game this year trying to make a catch against the wall. He turned an impossible play into a near catch and paid the price. Took him a couple of innings to shake the cobwebs out.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 03:52 PM
Randar,

Speaking of Lance Broadway, my pals from Mt. Carmel are fuming over not drafting Cesar Carillo out of Miami University and Mt. Carmel High School. Compare Broadway and Carillo - no sugarcoating. Did we screw up not picking Cesar?

Carillo has durability concerns. He's not too dissimilar from Gio. Meanwhile, Broadway has less mileage on his arm and has potential to go forward than Carillo does now, IMO. What you see with Carillo is what you get, IMO. Broadway is a SOLID pitcher. Did we screw up? Not in my opinion, but anything can happen in the prospect world. Give it 3-5 years and get back to me.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 03:59 PM
Anderson is in as the 4th outfielder. He is ready. I've been impressed with everything I've seen of him. I think Sweeney may get a roster spot in place of Timo. Both will get good playi8ng time because of Ozzie's Sunday line-ups, which is not a bad ting.

I think our farm system's true strength is pitching. McCarthy will be great as a starter this year in the bigs. I also think that Bajenaru can be good in a year.


So, you want a prospect to be the 4th OF'er and get inconsistent AB's and another one who was just 20 in AA this year to rot on the bench and get fewer than 100 at-bats over the course of the season?

That's just pure lunacy, frankly. Those guys need to be playing every day. You can't let them take struggles to the bench for 2-3 days and stew. You can't let them get out-of-sync because it will make the struggles worse. If they're in Chicago, they play everyday or damn near it.

If Baj isn't with the Sox in 2006 then he'll be gone. His slider is a bit flat, and he doens't blow you away with any of his other pitches. There are 100 guys like him floating around AAA and fringe roster guys.

As goood as our farm system is, our team was still built around people we acquired who were bascially seen as misfits by most. We did the opposite of money ball and got great players. See Dye, Podsednik, Jenks, and AJ. I think our farm is good, but we should still have a balance of home grown and acquired players.

Yeah, Buehrle and Garland didn't do anything for us, did they? Unles you're going to spend 120+ million, developing your own players is absolutely VITAL if you want to experience any kind of sustained success. Houston was almost exclusively a home-grown team in the bullpen and lineup. Atlanta. The Yankees of the 90's were built around home-grown stars like Jeter, Bernie Williams, and Posada.

getonbckthr
11-02-2005, 04:31 PM
This is just an idea. with all this depth we have in the minors would it be a bad thing to deal some of the old talent. I'm thinking along the lines of resigning paulie. Then maybe making a package of ROWAND, DUQUE, BAJANERU, AND Arnie MUNOZ FOR ADAM DUNN. It would help cincy in that they have so many OF's but nobody to play center, plus it gives them some pitching. plus it gives us a left handed bat. I also don't think to resign dunn it would impact our salary entirely too much. I would assume he would want salary a little more than frank, around paulie money. lineup:

podz-lf
gooch-2b
dunn-dh
paulie-1b
dye-rf
aj-c
crede-3b
anderson-cf
uribe-ss

ROTATION
beurhle,garland,garcia,contreras, and mccarthy.

soxfanreggie
11-02-2005, 04:59 PM
I think you'll see Anderson up on the big-league roster in Timo's place. I don't think he's worth a million to keep on the roster. Ozuna is a multiposition player and a good pinch runner. With Anderson in the OF, we have no real use for Timo. I know he had some clutch hits, but we could do so much more with the spot. As for BMAC, he'll be a great 5th starter for the Sox. Unless he has a horrible spring, expect to see him with the Big League team. However, we'll have to decide what to do with Slick Willy Harris, Gload, Borchard, Cassanova, Widger, Ben Davis, etc.

Daver
11-02-2005, 06:09 PM
Another guy hanging around in the lower levels is Micah Schnurstein, a lower round pick as a third basemen that has been used at second and SS as well, he probably projects to be a utility guy, but is good spray hitter with gap power that is a tough out at the plate.

OEO Magglio
11-02-2005, 06:20 PM
BINGO. He's much bigger than Aaron, but he has deceptive speed and better instinct, routes, etc.

Rowand is a guy who has made the most of his ability, but Anderson is better, even if he doesn't run into walls... :redneck
Brian can flat out fly, I knew he could run but when I saw him in person..man that guy can run. Brett, Owens is an interesting player, high ba, high obp guy that can run like crazy. I'm actually interested to see how Jerry does this year in Charlotte as I think Birmingham was the perfect park for his type of play. Owens is 24 I believe but he was still very raw and I think(not 100 percent on this) skipped high a ball and went straight to double a. I'm a fan of Owens while others think he'll only be a 4th outfielder, either way that was a steal to acquire Jerry for Alex Escobar. Chris Young is just going to absolutely destroy the ball in Charlotte this year, his numbers are just going to be sick(his numbers in bham were nuts as well). I'm still very high on Sweeney, I just love that guys swing. Obviously he hit for no power last year but I think he will in time. As far as pitching goes: like Randar said Gio is such a small built guy that he worries me. You got to love his arm but I'm just not going to get to excited about him until he gets to birmingham or charlotte and proves he can stay healthy for a while. Liotta and Haig are two other lefties that are interesting in the system, Daniel absolutely dominated in bham when he got promoted last year and Liotta has been dominating since he got into pro ball. One pitcher I'm not high on compared to some others is Sean Tracey. He's got a good arm I just don't think he's going to make it and especially not as a starter imo.

OEO Magglio
11-02-2005, 06:21 PM
This is just an idea. with all this depth we have in the minors would it be a bad thing to deal some of the old talent. I'm thinking along the lines of resigning paulie. Then maybe making a package of ROWAND, DUQUE, BAJANERU, AND Arnie MUNOZ FOR ADAM DUNN. It would help cincy in that they have so many OF's but nobody to play center, plus it gives them some pitching. plus it gives us a left handed bat. I also don't think to resign dunn it would impact our salary entirely too much. I would assume he would want salary a little more than frank, around paulie money. lineup:

podz-lf
gooch-2b
dunn-dh
paulie-1b
dye-rf
aj-c
crede-3b
anderson-cf
uribe-ss

ROTATION
beurhle,garland,garcia,contreras, and mccarthy.
I'm not a huge fan of Adam Dunn to begin with but Cinci would just laugh at that trade.

OEO Magglio
11-02-2005, 06:22 PM
I think you'll see Anderson up on the big-league roster in Timo's place.
I really believe Anderson is either going to be starting in cf for the sox or some other major league team. I don't think he's going back to charlotte and I know he wont be a bench player.

DaleJRFan
11-02-2005, 06:25 PM
This is just an idea. with all this depth we have in the minors would it be a bad thing to deal some of the old talent. I'm thinking along the lines of resigning paulie. Then maybe making a package of ROWAND, DUQUE, BAJANERU, AND Arnie MUNOZ FOR ADAM DUNN. It would help cincy in that they have so many OF's but nobody to play center, plus it gives them some pitching. plus it gives us a left handed bat. I also don't think to resign dunn it would impact our salary entirely too much. I would assume he would want salary a little more than frank, around paulie money. lineup:

podz-lf
gooch-2b
dunn-dh
paulie-1b
dye-rf
aj-c
crede-3b
anderson-cf
uribe-ss

ROTATION
beurhle,garland,garcia,contreras, and mccarthy.

Dude, may I suggest:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000C7GHG.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Randar68
11-02-2005, 06:27 PM
I really believe Anderson is either going to be starting in cf for the sox or some other major league team. I don't think he's going back to charlotte and I know he wont be a bench player.

yep, you've got it. Rowand's got a better chance of being a 4th OF'er than Anderson does. Some people just can't get over player-crushes enough to come to grips with it.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 06:28 PM
One pitcher I'm not high on compared to some others is Sean Tracey. He's got a good arm I just don't think he's going to make it and especially not as a starter imo.

I agree with you on Tracey. He was better this year, but I still don't see enough in terms of his offspeed repertoire to be an effective starter. Haigwood, Liotta, Malone and Honel all have better "starter-stuff"...

Tracey has enough arm to be a reliever and IMO that is where he'll end up.

MeanFish
11-02-2005, 06:44 PM
Dude, may I suggest:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000C7GHG.01._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Actually, I'm pretty sure it'd get rejected even on there.

doublem23
11-02-2005, 06:47 PM
Actually, I'm pretty sure it'd get rejected even on there.

You can turn off "Fair Trades."

:cool:

rdivaldi
11-02-2005, 06:53 PM
Wow I can't believe how many people are on the Brian Anderson bandwagon. Personally I don't think this kid is destined to be an everyday outfielder. With that long, goofy swing and his "deer in the headlights" plate presence I see 4th outfielder/late inning defensive replacement written all over him. If he works harder and matures maybe my story changes, but I'm not confident in that ever occurring. Our future outfield hinges more on Young and Sweeney IMO.

Randar68
11-02-2005, 07:00 PM
Wow I can't believe how many people are on the Brian Anderson bandwagon. Personally I don't think this kid is destined to be an everyday outfielder. With that long, goofy swing and his "deer in the headlights" plate presence I see 4th outfielder/late inning defensive replacement written all over him. If he works harder and matures maybe my story changes, but I'm not confident in that ever occurring. Our future outfield hinges more on Young and Sweeney IMO.

Young is the guy everyone is waiting on, but you don't like Anderson because of the "look of his swing?"

That "long, goofy" swing has yet to hinder him in hitting .301 in his minor league career and having a .295 avg and .362 OBP in AAA 12 months after being in High A ball. The guy has flown through the minors and has hit everywhere he's been, making the adjustments required very quickly.

Talk to a few developmental guys or guys within the coaching staffs of some of the teams he's been on. I've yet to talk with one that hasn't been impressed with him.

"goofy" works for some guys. Lot's of "nice swings" don't do much of anything. Unconventional is one thing, but I just don't see the "long" part of it you do. Borch had a long swing for a long time, and most everyone I ever talked to said he'd have to shorten it considerably to be successful. He wasn't able to (although it was shorter this year) and we see what has become of him. Never heard that about Anderson like I did about Borch though.


"deer in the headlights" plate presence
Huh?

rdivaldi
11-02-2005, 07:08 PM
IMO that goofy swing is going to lead to 150+ strikeouts at the major league level. I just don't think his approach at the plate is going to work.

As for his plate presence, it just appears to me that he has no clue at the dish.

Daver
11-02-2005, 07:10 PM
IMO that goofy swing is going to lead to 150+ strikeouts at the major league level. I just don't think his approach at the plate is going to work.

As for his plate presence, it just appears to me that he has no clue at the dish.

How many games have you seen him play?

I've seen him look uncomfortable the first time he faces a pitcher, and then settle right in his next AB.

Paulwny
11-02-2005, 07:12 PM
Do the sox have any legit catching prospects?

Daver
11-02-2005, 07:14 PM
Do the sox have any legit catching prospects?

Donny Lucy.

maurice
11-02-2005, 07:47 PM
I've seen him look uncomfortable the first time he faces a pitcher, and then settle right in his next AB.

I agree. I've seen him take some ugly hacks early in a game and then come back and hit two ropes after adjusting to the pitcher. That's the key with Anderson -- lots of talent and the ability to adjust at the plate.

maurice
11-02-2005, 07:48 PM
Do the sox have any legit catching prospects?

Lucy and Hernandez are still a ways away. Stewart is a sleeper. He had a surprisingly good year repeating at B'ham.

doctorlecter
11-02-2005, 08:07 PM
Borch had a long swing for a long time, and most everyone I ever talked to said he'd have to shorten it considerably to be successful. He wasn't able to (although it was shorter this year) and we see what has become of him. Never heard that about Anderson like I did about Borch though.

I think that Borchard is your fourth outfielder next year. I'm pretty sure that he's out of options, switch hits, and hit 29 dingers in the minors last year. He's got a pretty good arm from what I've seen, and is decent on the basepaths. I think that he definitely gives you more than Timo does next year, and Anderson will be getting 500-600 AB's somewhere in the organization. Hell, if Borch keeps shortening his swing, I wouldn't mind seeing what this kid could do in 400 AB's, maybe a younger, cheaper Carl Everett that can play defense. I had thought that the organization had given up on him, but then he went 5/12 in September, and the big club had both he AND Anderson in the AFL staying sharp in case of injury in the playoffs.

rdivaldi
11-02-2005, 08:20 PM
How many games have you seen him play?

I've seen him look uncomfortable the first time he faces a pitcher, and then settle right in his next AB.

Hmmmm, good question Daver. I'm not exactly sure, but I'd say a minimum of 40 times (this includes ST). Maybe I caught him on bad days, but I just didn't see any big adjustments for him at the plate when I saw him. Unlike Sweeney, I just don't sense a feeling of confidence or preparedness when Anderson is at the plate, and with those mechanics talent alone isn't going to cut it at the major league level.

I kinda felt the same thing when CLee was younger, and that worked out well for him. I guess you just can't like all of the top prospects, and Anderson just doesn't do it for me.

nodiggity59
11-02-2005, 08:23 PM
Hmmmm, good question Daver. I'm not exactly sure, but I'd say a minimum of 40 times (this includes ST). Maybe I caught him on bad days, but I just didn't see any big adjustments for him at the plate when I saw him. Unlike Sweeney, I just don't sense a feeling of confidence or preparedness when Anderson is at the plate, and with those mechanics talent alone isn't going to cut it at the major league level.

I kinda felt the same thing when CLee was younger, and that worked out well for him. I guess you just can't like all of the top prospects, and Anderson just doesn't do it for me.

I gotta agree with rdivaldi. But I still think ARow should go b/c he strcuk out 116 times with only a .407 SLG. I think Anderson can match these #s in his rookie season and play better D. But I don't see him going the whole season w/out 2 or 3 terrible slumps b/c the of the loopy swing. Seems like a bad thing to critique a guy on but I just feel he'll need a year to adjust and shorten, etc. We'll see.

Daver
11-02-2005, 08:25 PM
Hmmmm, good question Daver. I'm not exactly sure, but I'd say a minimum of 40 times (this includes ST). Maybe I caught him on bad days, but I just didn't see any big adjustments for him at the plate when I saw him. Unlike Sweeney, I just don't sense a feeling of confidence or preparedness when Anderson is at the plate, and with those mechanics talent alone isn't going to cut it at the major league level.

I kinda felt the same thing when CLee was younger, and that worked out well for him. I guess you just can't like all of the top prospects, and Anderson just doesn't do it for me.

I wouldn't count ST at bats, that was the first time he has ever seen MLB pitching, which is far different than minor league pitching.

I have tape of him from W/S, Birmingham, and Charlotte, and was impressed with the way he used the field to his advantage in all of those parks. I don't know that he is a 25HR a year player though, he has more gap power to me.

Hagan
11-02-2005, 08:32 PM
I think that the Barons outfield (all 3) will move up to Charlotte this year. None of them will be in the majors (apart from a brief stint due to injury or a September try out) in 2006.

Anderson will be in the outfield at USCF in 2006 although he may be the designated 4th outfielder.

Sweeney has at least one more year in the minors, probably AAA this year.

McCarthy will start at USCF.

Moving pitching up from AA to AAA may really decide who is ready to move up a year or two later to USCF.

Sweeney will be in the minors for more than one more year unless he has a break out year this year. He has much more power potential that he still has to tap into.1 home run and a 50% sealing percentage is not going to cut it in the majors. I dont know if I see anderson making the team either. Why let him just sit on the bench when he can play every day in AAA. you cannot do that to a top prospect. Having him not start at least every other game will hurt him.

California Sox
11-02-2005, 10:14 PM
Lucy and Hernandez are still a ways away. Stewart is a sleeper. He had a surprisingly good year repeating at B'ham.

Yeah, I think Stewart has a chance to play AAA this year. When you look at all the guys like Flaherty, Matheny, et al who have pretty long careers as defenders with a little pop who hit for low averages, you'd have to say Stewart has a shot of at least getting some backup big league time.

As far as the overall discussion, I've only seen Anderson in the spring and in his brief stint with the Sox and I agree that he doesn't have a picture perfect approach up there, but when he makes contact, he hits missiles. I see him like Jermaine Dye, a talented player who's going to strike out and look bad a lot but can also do a lot of positive things offensively and defensively. I think he'll have a decent, if unspectacular career, the sort of guy who starts on a team, not a bench guy.

And, yeah, Chris Young is probably better.

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 10:37 PM
Sweeney will be in the minors for more than one more year unless he has a break out year this year. He has much more power potential that he still has to tap into.1 home run and a 50% sealing percentage is not going to cut it in the majors. I dont know if I see anderson making the team either. Why let him just sit on the bench when he can play every day in AAA. you cannot do that to a top prospect. Having him not start at least every other game will hurt him.The way Ozzie uses his bench players, Anderson will probably play 3 days a week even if he is a 4th OF. Wouldn't you think he'd get a lot more out of seeing major league pitching 3 times a week than seeing another year of minor league pitching every day? If he adjusts quickly, he might well push someone out of a job. If not, he's got those extra days for coaching. Plus, if he struggles a bit there's less pressure if he's not playing every day and hurting the team.

chaerulez
11-03-2005, 07:59 AM
Strong and deep. Here's [potentially] the Sox starting line-up in 2009:

C ????
1B Ryan Sweeney
2B Getz
SS Robert Valido
3B Josh Fields
LF Jerry Owens
CF Chris Young
RF Brian Anderson

P Brandon McCarthy, Sean Tracey, Daniel Haigwood, Gio Gonzalez

ALL HOME GROWN TALENT. I'm sure there are others I'm missing and some I'm over-valuing. We're in good shape.

I hope you realize that lineup/rotation will never happen. Any team will always use free agency and trades to improve the team, and the Sox have the budget to do so. Also I'm going to bet players like Buerhele, Garland, Jenks, Uribe, and Crede (at least a couple of these guys) will still be around then.

MadetoOrta
11-03-2005, 09:25 AM
Anderson can duplicate Rowand's #s and play a better defensive centerfield next year. He's cheaper and Rowand's trade value couldn't be higher than it is right now. No matter how much $ authority KW gets this year, we'll need to move some salaries to make the Konerko deal happen. DOn't get me wrong, I like Aaron Rowand. I like Anderson more and Anderson has a higher ceiling. We'll see. WE'RE WORLD CHAMPS BABY!!!!!!!! YOU CAN PUT THAT ON THE &^%#@* BOARD........YES!

RoundingThird
11-03-2005, 11:23 AM
For whoever was talking about 4th outfielder, what about Roosevelt Brown? He was in Charlotte last season and put up some good numbers. \

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Roosevelt%20Brown&pos=LF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&did=494&pid=150032

.306 batting average. .375 OBP, .488 SLG

59 strikeouts and 42 walks in 389 at bats.

RoundingThird
11-03-2005, 11:36 AM
I know you are talking about the hot, young prospects, but what about the previous generation of SOx prostects.

Arnie Munoz and Felix Diaz were thought high enough to pitch for the big club in 2004. Although someone did mention Corwin Malone.

Is Kris Honel progressing as a first rounder should? Didn't he get hurt a while back?

Speaking of the previous gen Sox prospects, what happened to Casey Rogowski? He put up good numbers at AA .289 batting average, 33 doubles.

And tho I've never seen him play, it sounds like he's speedy for a first baseman. He hit 6 triples and stole 20 bases last season. He was fifth in home runs and 4th in RBI.

Could he or Gload take over for Paulie next year?

Since I haven't seen him play, I don't know if he has as good of a glove as Paulie.

Oh, and Josh Stewart too. Has he ever recoverd from the ball hit back at him? I could see him being a long man/spot starter, but we won't need that in 2006 because El Duque will hopefully fill that role. I think El Duque will be the best logn man since 2000 when Sean Lowe was nails in that role.

JimH
11-03-2005, 11:44 AM
I know you are talking about the hot, young prospects, but what about the previous generation of SOx prostects.

Arnie Munoz and Felix Diaz were thought high enough to pitch for the big club in 2004. Although someone did mention Corwin Malone.

Is Kris Honel progressing as a first rounder should? Didn't he get hurt a while back?

Speaking of the previous gen Sox prospects, what happened to Casey Rogowski? He put up good numbers at AA .289 batting average, 33 doubles.

And tho I've never seen him play, it sounds like he's speedy for a first baseman. He hit 6 triples and stole 20 bases last season. He was fifth in home runs and 4th in RBI.

Could he or Gload take over for Paulie next year?

Since I haven't seen him play, I don't know if he has as good of a glove as Paulie.

Casey is a very good defensive 1B and has good strike zone judgement, although for whatever reason that regressed a bit this year ... he struck out well over 100 times. The big question is whether he'll ever hit for much power at a power position, his stroke is line drive oriented.

They've played him a bit in LF too, to increase his versatility. It's possible he could challenge for a bench spot, depending on how things shake out with other reserve players. Too soon to tell on that. Personally I do not view him as a potential replacement should the White Sox fail to sign Konerko. Just my opinion but I don't think Casey has anywhere near the potential for that level of production.

JimH
11-03-2005, 11:48 AM
I think that Borchard is your fourth outfielder next year. I'm pretty sure that he's out of options, switch hits, and hit 29 dingers in the minors last year. He's got a pretty good arm from what I've seen, and is decent on the basepaths. I think that he definitely gives you more than Timo does next year, and Anderson will be getting 500-600 AB's somewhere in the organization. Hell, if Borch keeps shortening his swing, I wouldn't mind seeing what this kid could do in 400 AB's, maybe a younger, cheaper Carl Everett that can play defense. I had thought that the organization had given up on him, but then he went 5/12 in September, and the big club had both he AND Anderson in the AFL staying sharp in case of injury in the playoffs.

This is a good post, I'm sure it's something Sox management is considering. My hunch is Joe will be traded before spring training, but he could fill a role as a 4th guy and occasional DH. I know many here would have reservations about that, as do I, but the time has officially arrived for the Sox to either fish or cut bait with Borchard.

Randar68
11-03-2005, 11:56 AM
This is a good post, I'm sure it's something Sox management is considering. My hunch is Joe will be traded before spring training, but he could fill a role as a 4th guy and occasional DH. I know many here would have reservations about that, as do I, but the time has officially arrived for the Sox to either fish or cut bait with Borchard.

I thought about this for a while a couple months ago, but came to the following conclusion. A player who has struggled to shorten his swing and has had issues with consistency just doesn't seem to be fit to be a bench player at this point. Guys like him struggle in that role, with their swings getting longer, not seeing enough live pitching to ever find a rythem...

I don't know what to think about Joe right now. His swing was much shorter in spring training and he had a very strong second half of the year as well after strugglin gin the first half. That said, he's a FA unless he makes the 25-man roster, right?

Don't know that he'll make the roster as a bench type of player because I just don't see him being fit for that role.

Randar68
11-03-2005, 11:59 AM
Casey is a very good defensive 1B and has good strike zone judgement, although for whatever reason that regressed a bit this year ... he struck out well over 100 times. The big question is whether he'll ever hit for much power at a power position, his stroke is line drive oriented.

They've played him a bit in LF too, to increase his versatility. It's possible he could challenge for a bench spot, depending on how things shake out with other reserve players. Too soon to tell on that. Personally I do not view him as a potential replacement should the White Sox fail to sign Konerko. Just my opinion but I don't think Casey has anywhere near the potential for that level of production.

Casey hits the ball with a lot of topspin. He doesn't drive the ball with carry (backspin). In his swing he really bends a lot at the knees and finishes a bit like Giambi IIRC, but through the hitting zone he isn't as level as you'd like and most of his hard-hit balls have the initial elevation to be HR's, but that top-spin just drops the bottom out of the ball.

He didn't really improve on this in 2005. He had a GREAT first-half in which he was hitting in the .320 range, but hit a lull in late July and August that really dropped him to where he ended up. Takes a lot of walks but strikes out his fare share. Will get himself out on breaking pitches out of the zone a little too much as well.

Ol' No. 2
11-03-2005, 12:17 PM
I thought about this for a while a couple months ago, but came to the following conclusion. A player who has struggled to shorten his swing and has had issues with consistency just doesn't seem to be fit to be a bench player at this point. Guys like him struggle in that role, with their swings getting longer, not seeing enough live pitching to ever find a rythem...

I don't know what to think about Joe right now. His swing was much shorter in spring training and he had a very strong second half of the year as well after strugglin gin the first half. That said, he's a FA unless he makes the 25-man roster, right?

Don't know that he'll make the roster as a bench type of player because I just don't see him being fit for that role.My guess is that if some team expresses an interest in Borchard this winter, he'll get traded. Some team that's rebuilding might well be willing to give him a shot. Contending teams can't use up a roster spot on a project, and IMO Joe's still a project. I see very little likelihood he'll make the team, and it would take an absolutely stellar ST for him to do that. He's out of options, so he'd have to be waived if he doesn't make the team out of ST and they don't find a trading partner. That's not the same as being a FA, but from the Sox' perspective, the difference is nil.

fox2
11-03-2005, 12:37 PM
Nobody has mentioned Pedro Lopez. I was fairly impressed when he played a few games for the Sox in May. How did he do this year in Birmingham?

maurice
11-03-2005, 02:33 PM
Rowand's trade value couldn't be higher than it is right now.

:?:
I'm sure it was much higher at this time last year.
Rowand is coming off of a down year.

maurice
11-03-2005, 02:37 PM
Roosevelt Brown
Arnie Munoz
Felix Diaz
Corwin Malone
Kris Honel
Casey Rogowski
Josh Stewart

Brown has been a AAAA player for years.
Munoz and Diaz could become MLB bullpen guys, but probably not with the Sox.
Malone had injury problems and probably will try to make it to the bigs as a reliever.
Honel hasn't been consistently good in 2 years.
Rogowski probably is still a year away, though Daver might disagree.
Stewart left the Sox organization to go to Japan this year.

Ol' No. 2
11-03-2005, 02:37 PM
:?:
I'm sure it was much higher at this time last year.
Rowand is coming off of a down year.While his numbers are down, his recognition is up. Winning a World Series will do that to you.:smile: His performance in Yankee stadium didn't hurt, either.

maurice
11-03-2005, 02:40 PM
Pedro Lopez.

He got jerked around a lot this year (playing at 3 different levels) and struggled with the bat. His glove is MLB-quality, but his hitting still has a ways to go. Fortunately, he's only 21 years old.

maurice
11-03-2005, 02:49 PM
While his numbers are down, his recognition is up.

His recognition among fans and media is up. That doesn't affect his trade value much. I'm sure that MLB GMs noticed him in 2004, when he went .310/.361/.544, 94 R, 17 SB. That put him among the league-leaders.

Randar68
11-03-2005, 02:53 PM
He got jerked around a lot this year (playing at 3 different levels) and struggled with the bat. His glove is MLB-quality, but his hitting still has a ways to go. Fortunately, he's only 21 years old.

He's been rushed because Valido is pushing the heck out of him. Plus, the Sox had no viable SS backup outside of Pablo Ozuna (yikes!) so when Uribe was hurt, they needed someone to play reliable defensive SS. They saw this need to try to rush Lopez to fill that backup role. It resulted in him being pushed faster than he should have to AAA and then to the majors. AA is where he should have been all year.

I'm not a big fan of Pedro's bat. He's a VERY slick fielder. If he could make himself into a .250 hitter at the MLB level, he'd be a very valuable utility middle infielder.

Ol' No. 2
11-03-2005, 03:03 PM
His recognition among fans and media is up. That doesn't affect his trade value much. I'm sure that MLB GMs noticed him in 2004, when he went .310/.361/.544, 94 R, 17 SB. That put him among the league-leaders.I knew you were going to say that.:cool: And it's true as far as it goes. But I don't think MLB GM's are completely immune to seeing a player perform well on a big stage. Plus, they might have been thinking he was a one-year wonder last year. While his numbers were down in 2005, they weren't horrible, and I think GM's might be more confident in projecting what he can do. At worst I'd think he would be valued about the same as last year, and at best he might be viewed as more of a known quantity, and perhaps a bit higher valued as a result.

pudge
11-03-2005, 03:21 PM
I'm not a major league scout or anything...but I personally saw Anderson hit the two homeruns against Seattle. He was the only one hitting the ball with any kind of conviction that night against Felix Hernandez. Safeco is known for a terrible place to hit homeruns and he had no problem that night. I was sold.

I was there too, but you don't get sold on one night of two homeruns. Were you sold when Borchard hit that 500-foot shot?

Having said that, I hope BA works out, cause then we can say we saw his first ML homeruns!

richb2
11-03-2005, 06:27 PM
what ever happened to that pitcher from illinois in the first round they picked about 3 or 4 years ago he was a can;t miss-a lot of teams wanted to draft him

Daver
11-03-2005, 06:31 PM
what ever happened to that pitcher from illinois in the first round they picked about 3 or 4 years ago he was a can;t miss-a lot of teams wanted to draft him

Kris Honel has been injured two years in a row, it has slowed his progress a bit.

DSpivack
11-06-2005, 04:41 AM
Package of Rowand and Borchard to a team that needs outfielders? I don't know what we could get for them but it seems possible.

Mr. White Sox
11-06-2005, 05:11 AM
Here's a (not so far out there) prediction:
Rowand or Brian Anderson are traded in the offseason. Either one is starting-OF caliber, and I don't know if KW would want to keep Anderson in AAA when he's already pretty much MLB ready. Anderson probably has more trade value, but I like him defensively more than Rowand. I'm not sold on him offensively, but from what Randar has said he definitely has solid ability in that area.

DickAllen72
11-06-2005, 03:04 PM
Anyone know how well Borchard did in the AFL this year?

Also, is he scheduled to play winter ball this season? I remember last winter he did so poorly in Mexico he was cut. Still, he showed up in ST and did pretty well. Then, after a terrible start in AAA, he seemed to turn it around again and looked pretty good in the very limited appearances with the Sox in September.

I'm still rooting for Joe. I'd hate to see the Sox waive him and he becomes a star somewhere else. I think they should at least keep him on the big league roster in Timo's spot rather than just lose him for nothing.

caulfield12
11-06-2005, 03:22 PM
what ever happened to that pitcher from illinois in the first round they picked about 3 or 4 years ago he was a can;t miss-a lot of teams wanted to draft him

Kris Honel....finally started rounding into form in the second half of the season in AA. Neal Cotts is from ISU.

If KW traded Borchard, Rauch and Corwin Malone when they had their highest value, we would have been in very good shape to win it all in 2003.

Of course, Rauch (barring injury) would have been a 1 or 2 starter, Borchard the White Sox equivalent of Dunn and Malone a solid 3 starter.

The biggest problems we had were the pitching injuries in 2000-01, the failure of Borchard to develop into a 4 hitter with 30-40 homers per season as projected and the trade of Fogg and Kip Wells for Ritchie, which led to seemingly a three year succession of failed number five starters, highlighted by the failure and injuries to Danny Wright.

Rowand, Crede, Buehrle and Thomas were the only players on this team to come up through the system.

KW did a very good job of trading some players at their ¨peak¨ value in terms of Reed, Morse and Olivo for Garcia and Matt Guerrier for Marte.

Now if you want to compete for a decade, you have to develop your own players....or you will keep cycling through every 2-3 seasons as the players get too expensive to retain.

caulfield12
11-06-2005, 03:25 PM
Here's a (not so far out there) prediction:
Rowand or Brian Anderson are traded in the offseason. Either one is starting-OF caliber, and I don't know if KW would want to keep Anderson in AAA when he's already pretty much MLB ready. Anderson probably has more trade value, but I like him defensively more than Rowand. I'm not sold on him offensively, but from what Randar has said he definitely has solid ability in that area.


It makes much more sense to deal Rowand because of his contract and propensity for running into the wall, which eventually will lead to a serious injury.

On one hand, he was the AL Gold Glove winner and gained national prominence due to his play against NY this season. OTOH, his offense seriously regressed to the point where many now consider him the weakness link in the starting lineup.

Anderson definitely has more upside, but did not prove much with the exception of his two homers off Felix Hernandez. Like Borchard, he will need to keep his strikeout ratio at under 1 per 4 at-bats IMO at the MLB level.

Steelrod
11-06-2005, 03:27 PM
It's fun to guess but a waste of time if you are serious. Remember Borchard was the next Mantle and Buerle wasn't a prospect!

caulfield12
11-06-2005, 03:28 PM
Anyone know how well Borchard did in the AFL this year?

Also, is he scheduled to play winter ball this season? I remember last winter he did so poorly in Mexico he was cut. Still, he showed up in ST and did pretty well. Then, after a terrible start in AAA, he seemed to turn it around again and looked pretty good in the very limited appearances with the Sox in September.

I'm still rooting for Joe. I'd hate to see the Sox waive him and he becomes a star somewhere else. I think they should at least keep him on the big league roster in Timo's spot rather than just lose him for nothing.

He wasn´t on the AFL roster to my knowledge. I think our three hitters were Josh Fields, Valido (left for personal reasons), Chris Young, Reynoso, Tracey and Corwin Malone, who might be an option as a LH reliever for Marte, along with Haigwood and Arnie Munoz. As far as I know, Joe was on the bench all postseason with Anderson, Casanova and McCarthy.

caulfield12
11-07-2005, 10:08 AM
It's fun to guess but a waste of time if you are serious. Remember Borchard was the next Mantle and Buerle wasn't a prospect!

I think it might have been 1999 or 98 that he was ranked as the number 10 prospect in the Sox system...the year that he went through 2-3 different levels.

Of course, it was his average (according to the radar guns) fastball that denied him his rightful place. Unfortunately, there is no reliable way to measure heart and moxie. I do know Matt Guerrier had very similar stuff from the RH side and was touted as a much better prospect...when the Pirates got him from us for Marte, they were claiming he was going to be the next Greg Maddux. I think McClendon said something to that effect.

I also remember that Jon Adkins and Felix Diaz supposedly had mid-90´s fastballs, but that must have been a joke on the Sox, lol.

Jenks and Frank Francisco are the only kids I have seen in the Sox system at any point that reached the high 90´s legitimately.

Mr. White Sox
11-07-2005, 01:32 PM
It makes much more sense to deal Rowand because of his contract and propensity for running into the wall, which eventually will lead to a serious injury.

On one hand, he was the AL Gold Glove winner and gained national prominence due to his play against NY this season. OTOH, his offense seriously regressed to the point where many now consider him the weakness link in the starting lineup.

Anderson definitely has more upside, but did not prove much with the exception of his two homers off Felix Hernandez. Like Borchard, he will need to keep his strikeout ratio at under 1 per 4 at-bats IMO at the MLB level.

Agreed. Just one point of contention ... Rowand didn't win the Gold Glove. :wink: Good analysis though.

Steelrod
11-07-2005, 01:37 PM
I think it might have been 1999 or 98 that he was ranked as the number 10 prospect in the Sox system...the year that he went through 2-3 different levels.

Of course, it was his average (according to the radar guns) fastball that denied him his rightful place. Unfortunately, there is no reliable way to measure heart and moxie. I do know Matt Guerrier had very similar stuff from the RH side and was touted as a much better prospect...when the Pirates got him from us for Marte, they were claiming he was going to be the next Greg Maddux. I think McClendon said something to that effect.

I also remember that Jon Adkins and Felix Diaz supposedly had mid-90´s fastballs, but that must have been a joke on the Sox, lol.

Jenks and Frank Francisco are the only kids I have seen in the Sox system at any point that reached the high 90´s legitimately.

If I remember correctly, Mark pitched in the futures game 'cause they were protecting Ginter's arm.
You never know.

Randar68
11-07-2005, 01:43 PM
If I remember correctly, Mark pitched in the futures game 'cause they were protecting Ginter's arm.
You never know.

Mark didn't make many prospect lists because he flew through the minors before anyone could take notice long enough. He was a low-round draft-and-follow and went from A to the majors in one year. When was he supposed to make the top 10 list?

Midwest league in 1999 to pitching in 28 games in the majors in 2000.

Hell, he had a 4.28 ERA with 105 H and just 91 K's in 99 IP in low-A in 1999 and still made #10 on the list. I think that's pretty damn remarkable he even made the list, myself.

You either have to have top-notch "stuff" or be around in the mid to upper levels doing it successfully in order to get noticed to the degree required to make a top 10 list.

Revisionist history is pretty easy when you don't have any of the facts or correct information in the first place (not referring to you, Steelrod)

caulfield12
11-08-2005, 07:52 PM
Mark didn't make many prospect lists because he flew through the minors before anyone could take notice long enough. He was a low-round draft-and-follow and went from A to the majors in one year. When was he supposed to make the top 10 list?

Midwest league in 1999 to pitching in 28 games in the majors in 2000.

Hell, he had a 4.28 ERA with 105 H and just 91 K's in 99 IP in low-A in 1999 and still made #10 on the list. I think that's pretty damn remarkable he even made the list, myself.

You either have to have top-notch "stuff" or be around in the mid to upper levels doing it successfully in order to get noticed to the degree required to make a top 10 list.

Revisionist history is pretty easy when you don't have any of the facts or correct information in the first place (not referring to you, Steelrod)

The fact of the matter is that there have been tons of Sox pitching prospects considered to be better bets, hence the draft position and career history of Buehrle (getting cut from high school team, junior college, etc.)

Beirne
Barcelo
Ginter
Aaron Myette
Guerrier
Fogg
Danny Wright
Brian West
Corwin Malone
Jason Stumm
Kip Wells
Ginter
Rauch
Garland

That´s 14 off the top of my head that were more highly touted in the same ¨wave of pitching¨ that Buehrle came up in the midst of.

The fact of the matter is that pitchers like Fogg and Buehrle were never given much of a chance because of their average fastballs, despite putting up quite dominant minor league statistics. They have to prove themselves year after year because of the number of hits they allow...six years later, probably 80% of baseball fans around the country still would not consider Buehrle an ace, which is unfortunate but comes with the territory of not striking out batters like Clemens, Wood, Pedro, Oswalt, Prior, etc.