PDA

View Full Version : Possible Free Agent Acquisition


Hawk Harrelson
11-01-2005, 09:23 PM
Assuming we lose Konerko why not move Dye to 1B and sign Jacque Jones. This guy is a great fielder and is probably good for 25-30 homers in the cell. I think he would fit well on this team. This also gives you the option of trading Rowand and playing Jones at CF and Anderson at RF.

What kind of money do you think this guy will be getting? He's an all around good player, but his average has been mediocre the last two years.

soxfan26
11-01-2005, 09:58 PM
Assuming we lose Konerko why not move Dye to 1B and sign Jacque Jones.

We can move Dye to first but then Gload should start in RF. :rolleyes:

SoxFan76
11-01-2005, 10:00 PM
Why not? Because you don't move a gold glove outfielder out of the outfield. And not anyone can play 1st. Believe it or not, it is a hard position to play if you want to play it well. And this team is based on defense and pitching. This isn't MVP Baseball 2005. You can't just move people from position to position.

tweek57
11-01-2005, 10:32 PM
Jaque Jones put up a .757 OPS last year and has a career .782 OPS, he's struck out 100 times 5 out of his 6 full pro seasons. He's never knocked in more than 85 runs in any given season and has only 77+ RBI twice in his career. Jones hit .249 this past season and .254 in '04.

Why exactly do you want him again?

santo=dorf
11-01-2005, 10:33 PM
Jones' OBP is terrible, strikes out a ton, and made $5,000,000 this season. How exactly would he fit in with us? :?:

JUribe1989
11-01-2005, 10:41 PM
Putting Jacque Jones on this team would kill me on the inside. I absolutely hate the guy. I'd like to keep the dream of this 2005 team alive. Why are we making movies already? What we have is fine whether we sign Konerko or not.

Ol' No. 2
11-01-2005, 11:14 PM
Why not? Because you don't move a gold glove outfielder out of the outfield. And not anyone can play 1st. Believe it or not, it is a hard position to play if you want to play it well. And this team is based on defense and pitching. This isn't MVP Baseball 2005. You can't just move people from position to position.Hallelujah!! Where did this "move Dye to 1B" stuff get started? Why in hell would you do that?:?: Aren't first basemen a hell of a lot easier to find than gold glove right fielders? And who says he's got the right skills to play 1B? There's a lot more to it than just standing on 1B and waiting for someone to throw the ball to you.

gobears1987
11-01-2005, 11:17 PM
Why not? Because you don't move a gold glove outfielder out of the outfield. And not anyone can play 1st. Believe it or not, it is a hard position to play if you want to play it well. And this team is based on defense and pitching. This isn't MVP Baseball 2005. You can't just move people from position to position.Yeah even video games don't allow you to move people like that. I put Everett at 3rd for Crede, bad idea.

gobears1987
11-01-2005, 11:17 PM
Hallelujah!! Where did this "move Dye to 1B" stuff get started? Why in hell would you do that?:?: Aren't first basemen a hell of a lot easier to find than gold glove right fielders? And who says he's got the right skills to play 1B? There's a lot more to it than just standing on 1B and waiting for someone to throw the ball to you.Hunter Wendlestedt started it when he forced Dye to play in the infield

jabrch
11-01-2005, 11:18 PM
Has anyone looked at Jones vs lefties? He is terrible. .201/.247/.370 this year, and .227/.277/.339 on his career. If we get Jones, we better not pay much at all, and have a platoon solution or a pinch hitter for any time he has to face a lefty. No thanks - I'd take Carl back before I'd touch Jaque Jones.

veeter
11-01-2005, 11:52 PM
What is it about the off-season that drops some people's i.q.s?

Chisox003
11-02-2005, 12:02 AM
Well that got shot down quickly .... rightfully so

If Dye has to move to 1B, and I mean absolutely, positively, last resort HAS to move there, Brian Anderson will be playing RF.

But PK will be resigned, Dye will be in RF, Anderson will be the 4th OF, and everything will be right with the world come April 3

SoxSpeed22
11-02-2005, 12:05 AM
Can we please drop the idea of Dye playing 1st?

Banix12
11-02-2005, 12:10 AM
Has anyone looked at Jones vs lefties? He is terrible. .201/.247/.370 this year, and .227/.277/.339 on his career. If we get Jones, we better not pay much at all, and have a platoon solution or a pinch hitter for any time he has to face a lefty. No thanks - I'd take Carl back before I'd touch Jaque Jones.

If you actually compare Carl's 2005 stats to Jones' 2005 stats they are nearly identical

Carl's Avg - .251
Jones Avg - .249
Carl's OBP - .311
Jones OBP - .319
Carls HR - 23
Jones HR - 23

So basically he's just Carl Everett without the knee problems. I think we all have a skewed image of this guy just because he destroys the white sox.

jabrch
11-02-2005, 12:28 AM
Carl is also a switch hitter. Granted his splits are about even - but he's still a switch hitter. I have 0 interest in seeing Jones here. We have better options in the organization that would cost less $.

SOXintheBURGH
11-02-2005, 12:29 AM
The day #14 signs a dotted line is the day I will ponder a THING. Give it a rest, we won a GD World Series for the first time in 88 years. :rolleyes:

antitwins13
11-02-2005, 12:31 AM
I'd like to keep the dream of this 2005 team alive. Why are we making movies already? What we have is fine whether we sign Konerko or not.

That's not reality unfortunately. The only thing that never changes is change itself. We will never have another team like the 2005 team and retooling is always going to be needed to keep the team competitive. I have nothing against keeping players on this team if they will continue to help us, but I've seen some people come out and say we need to keep guys like Blum and Everett, but that will just lead to our downfall.

Banix12
11-02-2005, 12:34 AM
Can we please drop the idea of Dye playing 1st?

I'm not going to totally get on board with the idea but I don't think it's really a horrible one.

In the horrible, unthinkable scenario of a post-konerko white sox, which I'm still betting against, there aren't many available 1b out there who would equal the bat of Dye's at 1b and the realities of baseball right now is it is a bit easier to come by a decent hitting RF than it is a good power hitting 1b.

Certainly it wouldn't be the ideal and if it did happen I would give him as many reps as possible in spring training before I go throwing him out there in an actual season game.

I would consider it a last resort but with it being a weak free agent market especially at 1b, not many really good in-house solutions, and not many decent 1b available on the trade market I wouldn't completely rule it out.

antitwins13
11-02-2005, 12:44 AM
I'm not going to totally get on board with the idea but I don't think it's really a horrible one.

In the horrible, unthinkable scenario of a post-konerko white sox, which I'm still betting against, there aren't many available 1b out there who would equal the bat of Dye's at 1b and the realities of baseball right now is it is a bit easier to come by a decent hitting RF than it is a good power hitting 1b.

Certainly it wouldn't be the ideal and if it did happen I would give him as many reps as possible in spring training before I go throwing him out there in an actual season game.

I would consider it a last resort but with it being a weak free agent market especially at 1b, not many really good in-house solutions, and not many decent 1b available on the trade market I wouldn't completely rule it out.


I've toyed with the notion of moving Dye to first, but it's very difficult to move a gold glove out of position. Nevertheless, I don't see another option if Paulie leaves. I suggested Mike Piazza, but nobody else seemed on board with the idea.

Chisox003
11-02-2005, 12:56 AM
The day #14 signs a dotted line is the day I will ponder a THING. Give it a rest, we won a GD World Series for the first time in 88 years. :rolleyes:
No kidding...

This is my first FULL offseason at WSI, and I'm beginning to wonder how bad it must of been when we DIDN'T win it all ... I joined December 20, 2004 amidst the madness of the Pods for Lee trade, and the possible signings of Gooch and AJ...

For those of you that have been here forever, is every offseason this insane, this early (or in years past, beginning in October instead of November :o: )...?

Banix12
11-02-2005, 12:57 AM
I suggested Mike Piazza, but nobody else seemed on board with the idea.

I hate the idea too. Piazza is a butcher at 1b.

ma-gaga
11-02-2005, 01:02 AM
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE sign Jacque Jones. He kills your team.

Gawd. Here are the things you need to know:
1. He plays good defense
2. He'll hit 20-25 homers (at the Cell, he might hit 30+).
3. He struggles against lefties. Really really badly.
4. He's a great team player.
5. He made $5MM this year, and is probably looking to cash in (4 years/$28MM?).
6. He's going to be 30 years old. Which is pretty young.

He is probably the best young FA outfielder. Brian Giles is the most talented, but he's already 35 years old, and going to be twice as expensive. J.Jones will be a nice signing for a team looking to upgrade their outfield. I just don't know if I LIKE his cost for his weaknesses.

:cool:

Banix12
11-02-2005, 01:28 AM
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE sign Jacque Jones. He kills your team.

Gawd. Here are the things you need to know:
1. He plays good defense
2. He'll hit 20-25 homers (at the Cell, he might hit 30+).
3. He struggles against lefties. Really really badly.
4. He's a great team player.
5. He made $5MM this year, and is probably looking to cash in (4 years/$28MM?).
6. He's going to be 30 years old. Which is pretty young.

He is probably the best young FA outfielder. Brian Giles is the most talented, but he's already 35 years old, and going to be twice as expensive. J.Jones will be a nice signing for a team looking to upgrade their outfield. I just don't know if I LIKE his cost for his weaknesses.

:cool:

Even though he's older I would still prefer Giles.

Even if he signed for the $5 mil he played for this season I don't know if I would really want him that bad, especially with potentially better players in the sox minor league system.

My hope for Jacque Jones is he has a nice long productive career... on a National League team.

Certainly a good player, I just don't see him as worth the money for the sox to invest in.

Hawk Harrelson
11-02-2005, 02:56 AM
So basically he's just Carl Everett without the knee problems. I think we all have a skewed image of this guy just because he destroys the white sox.

Hardly Carl Everett. He plays great defense, has some speed and also plays the Twins style of ball, which means moving over the runners and bunting. All things that Carl does not do. 2005 was not a great year for him, but look at who was batting around him, that whole offense for the Twins was a joke. You can't compare Jones to Carl just because their AVG and OBP is similar, come on there is a whole lot more to it than that.

Hawk Harrelson
11-02-2005, 02:59 AM
I've toyed with the notion of moving Dye to first, but it's very difficult to move a gold glove out of position. Nevertheless, I don't see another option if Paulie leaves. I suggested Mike Piazza, but nobody else seemed on board with the idea.

I think Piazza is done, he'll probably end up with the Devil Rays or something. If we can get him for cheap it might not be a bad idea as insurance at DH and also backup 1B/C, but he is not a replacement for Konerko.

Frater Perdurabo
11-02-2005, 09:16 AM
Hallelujah!! Where did this "move Dye to 1B" stuff get started? Why in hell would you do that?:?: Aren't first basemen a hell of a lot easier to find than gold glove right fielders? And who says he's got the right skills to play 1B? There's a lot more to it than just standing on 1B and waiting for someone to throw the ball to you.

IIRC, it started when Jermaine Dye told the Sox he would be willing to learn to play first base if needed (being the team player and great clubhouse guy that he is). Also, IIRC, he said he's like to learn to play first in order to extend his career. So, take up your beef with the World Series MVP if you must.
:redneck

MisterB
11-02-2005, 10:36 AM
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE sign Jacque Jones. He kills your team.

Gawd. Here are the things you need to know:
1. He plays good defense
2. He'll hit 20-25 homers (at the Cell, he might hit 30+).
3. He struggles against lefties. Really really badly.
4. He's a great team player.
5. He made $5MM this year, and is probably looking to cash in (4 years/$28MM?).
6. He's going to be 30 years old. Which is pretty young.

He is probably the best young FA outfielder. Brian Giles is the most talented, but he's already 35 years old, and going to be twice as expensive. J.Jones will be a nice signing for a team looking to upgrade their outfield. I just don't know if I LIKE his cost for his weaknesses.

:cool:

Over the last 2 seasons, Jones' production is roughly equal to Joe Crede - and there's no way I'd spend anything near $28/4 years for that especially since he's useless against lefties. If he's the best young FA outfielder, then the Sox should pretty much write off any FA spending (Konerko excepted) for anything but bench players...

mdep524
11-02-2005, 11:23 AM
In '05 Piazza's line was .251 19 HR 62 RBI .326 OBP. as a catcher in Shea Stadium. Those numbers would DEFINTELY improve if he moved to a better ballpark and didn't have to play behind the plate. He's old (37 I think) but I don't think he's washed up. IMO, he'll be a serviceable DH for some AL team in '06. I just don't think it will be the Sox.

And when will people acknowledge JD could play a fine 1B? I don't know what you people think PK can do that JD can't. If PK left or was traded, and Brian Anderson was ready to play the OF, JD would be a solid option at 1B. It's not going to happen because Paulie is coming back IMO, but I just have to shake my head at these incredulous responses of how Jermaine Dye could never handle the position that Cecil Fielder, Frank Thomas and Jim Thome once played. :rolleyes:

Lip Man 1
11-02-2005, 12:05 PM
No.2:

My recollection is that the Dye to first base movement started with the White Sox themselves. I remember reading in the papers a comment about this stating that the Sox were discussing it as a 'fall back' plan in the event they lose Konerko.

Lip

Fuller_Schettman
11-02-2005, 02:49 PM
If we were to sign a Twins outfielder, I'd rather it be Torii Hunter. There were rumours about he and the Twins wanting to part ways.

Jacque Jones? Feh! I'd rather have Jacque Bauer!

Hawk Harrelson
11-02-2005, 03:10 PM
No.2:

My recollection is that the Dye to first base movement started with the White Sox themselves. I remember reading in the papers a comment about this stating that the Sox were discussing it as a 'fall back' plan in the event they lose Konerko.

Lip

I thought I heard the same thing, but I am not sure where. It could be media BS, but I am pretty sure you are right that the White Sox themselves have been talking about this.

I have total faith in Dye's ability to play 1B and learn it quick enough. I believe he has played it before at some level. The only problem with the move is the fact that you are taking an above average glove/arm out of your OF, but when you can replace him with a guy like Jones or Anderson I don't see that as a problem.

Hawk Harrelson
11-02-2005, 03:17 PM
In '05 Piazza's line was .251 19 HR 62 RBI .326 OBP. as a catcher in Shea Stadium. Those numbers would DEFINTELY improve if he moved to a better ballpark and didn't have to play behind the plate. He's old (37 I think) but I don't think he's washed up. IMO, he'll be a serviceable DH for some AL team in '06. I just don't think it will be the Sox.


You might be right about Piazza, if we can get him for cheap I don't see any problem. He can be a third catcher, backup 1B, and possible full time DH depending on Frank. He's a veteran hitter who will be good for 20 HR in a limited amount of AB's.

Banix12
11-02-2005, 04:34 PM
Hardly Carl Everett. He plays great defense, has some speed and also plays the Twins style of ball, which means moving over the runners and bunting. All things that Carl does not do. 2005 was not a great year for him, but look at who was batting around him, that whole offense for the Twins was a joke. You can't compare Jones to Carl just because their AVG and OBP is similar, come on there is a whole lot more to it than that.

I can compare the AVG and OBP, and I will. Before the knee injuries Carl Everett was exactly the same type of player. Jones is just Carl Everett with better knees.

I also swear I've seen carl bunt and move runners over.

Hawk Harrelson
11-03-2005, 01:08 AM
Jones is just Carl Everett with better knees.


And this means Jones is bad?? Everett with knees is a pretty damn good player so I really don't understand your argument here.

Also I have seen Carl lay down some bunts, but for the most part he is not the kind of fundamental player that Jones is. You can compare stats all you want, but I think that Jones sacrifices his numbers moving the guys over, much in the same way Iguchi did this year. So it's not fair to compare Jones to Everett with AVG and OBP.

Banix12
11-03-2005, 02:50 AM
And this means Jones is bad?? Everett with knees is a pretty damn good player so I really don't understand your argument here.

Also I have seen Carl lay down some bunts, but for the most part he is not the kind of fundamental player that Jones is. You can compare stats all you want, but I think that Jones sacrifices his numbers moving the guys over, much in the same way Iguchi did this year. So it's not fair to compare Jones to Everett with AVG and OBP.

When did I say Jones was bad? You are putting words in my mouth. Just because I don't want him doesn't mean I think he is bad. I think he is a good defender with good power but with a real tendency to overswing and he can't hit lefties. When I compared him to Carl Everett I never said it was good or bad, I just laid it out.

Anyway, according to Jones' stat sheet he had 4 sac flies and 2 sac hits in 2005, hardly enough to make a dent in his AVG. and .OBP so I'm standing by my comparison of his hitting to Carl Everett's. Even if you doubled that amount it wouldn't make much more of a difference. Anyway Carl is actually a better hitter than Jones because he can hit lefties. Yes Jones has some speed and can play better OF but I was only comparing the bats.

Jones made $5 mil a year this year and should be seeking at minimum a small raise and multi year contract. Should the white sox seriously invest a minimum $6 mil a year over say three years when it looks like they could very well have better players in the farm system who should be ready to go soon?

santo=dorf
11-03-2005, 08:19 AM
You can compare stats all you want, but I think that Jones sacrifices his numbers moving the guys over, much in the same way Iguchi did this year. So it's not fair to compare Jones to Everett with AVG and OBP.
Why don't you look this **** up?

Iguchi had 11 sacrafices this year and Jones has 13 in his career. Please tell me again how striking out 100+ times a year and not laying down bunts is "Twins' style" of baseball. :rolleyes:

Hawk Harrelson
11-03-2005, 04:36 PM
Why don't you look this **** up?

Iguchi had 11 sacrafices this year and Jones has 13 in his career. Please tell me again how striking out 100+ times a year and not laying down bunts is "Twins' style" of baseball. :rolleyes:

Keep in mind moving the runners over doesn not mean a sacrifice. Yes Jones tends to be a free swinger, much like half of our team. Maybe comparing him to Iguchi was a bad idea, but compare him offensively to Rowand and you will see why he would be a definite upgrade.

You can give me all the stats you want, but if I learned anything from this year it's that stats don't matter. Jones is a good player, I'm not saying we should throw anything over 5 mil at him, I am just saying he is a possible signing.

Randar68
11-03-2005, 05:13 PM
You can give me all the stats you want, but if I learned anything from this year it's that stats don't matter. Jones is a good player, I'm not saying we should throw anything over 5 mil at him, I am just saying he is a possible signing.

The problem is you are just making things up. Pure and simple.

Banix12
11-03-2005, 05:19 PM
Keep in mind moving the runners over doesn not mean a sacrifice. Yes Jones tends to be a free swinger, much like half of our team. Maybe comparing him to Iguchi was a bad idea, but compare him offensively to Rowand and you will see why he would be a definite upgrade.

You can give me all the stats you want, but if I learned anything from this year it's that stats don't matter. Jones is a good player, I'm not saying we should throw anything over 5 mil at him, I am just saying he is a possible signing.

I don't see him as a massive upgrade to Rowand. Rowand seems to hit for a little higher average and has a little bit less power, Rowand gets on base at a slightly better clip, both strike out at about the same rate. Their speed is just about even as is the arm strength. If Rowand can rediscover the power stroke he had in 2004 the differences between Jones and Rowand would virtually dissappear. Jones at this moment is only slightly better than Rowand, not light years ahead of him. He's definitely not enough of an upgrade to spend an extra $4 million over Rowand's salary. Of course you don't believe in stats so why the hell do I even bother trying to make an argument.

ma-gaga
11-03-2005, 06:26 PM
The really sad thing is J.Jones was the second best offensive player on the Twins last year. He's got value, but he's going to be overpaid. I guess it depends on your finances:

The Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, or Cubs could put him in CF, and for $7MM a year it would be a very good signing.
A medium market team (~$70MM to $90MM payroll) would really S T R E T C H to fit him in, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.
A small payroll team would be idiotic to spend 15%+ of their payroll on this guy. Even worse, have him play a corner outfield position.
He's a damn good defender, good enough to play CF on a regular basis. A SMART organization will see that and use him there. But teams like the Royals might sign this guy and DH him. Hell, the Twins might resign the guy to a big deal. ...

:gulp:

Banix12
11-03-2005, 07:16 PM
The really sad thing is J.Jones was the second best offensive player on the Twins last year. He's got value, but he's going to be overpaid. I guess it depends on your finances:

The Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, or Cubs could put him in CF, and for $7MM a year it would be a very good signing.
A medium market team (~$70MM to $90MM payroll) would really S T R E T C H to fit him in, but it wouldn't be the end of the world.
A small payroll team would be idiotic to spend 15%+ of their payroll on this guy. Even worse, have him play a corner outfield position.
He's a damn good defender, good enough to play CF on a regular basis. A SMART organization will see that and use him there. But teams like the Royals might sign this guy and DH him. Hell, the Twins might resign the guy to a big deal. ...

:gulp:

I think he actually would be a good pickup for the cubs as a stopgap solution for a year or two in CF before Pie is really ready. Gotta think though Dusty would be stupid and bat him leadoff. He'd be good yankees material too since Defense should be the top priority and he'd be a good 7 or 8 hitter in their lineup.

I think the Twins do have a shot at picking him up again, especially if like last season his value on the open market isn't too great and he decides to come back again for a 1 year deal.

It's Time
11-03-2005, 08:34 PM
And this means Jones is bad?? Everett with knees is a pretty damn good player so I really don't understand your argument here.

Also I have seen Carl lay down some bunts, but for the most part he is not the kind of fundamental player that Jones is. You can compare stats all you want, but I think that Jones sacrifices his numbers moving the guys over, much in the same way Iguchi did this year. So it's not fair to compare Jones to Everett with AVG and OBP.

Jones is awful. He may have killed the White Sox over the years but this guy is worth no where near 5M bones. Sorry, he's an average player at best.

Hawk Harrelson
11-03-2005, 11:03 PM
I don't see him as a massive upgrade to Rowand. Rowand seems to hit for a little higher average and has a little bit less power, Rowand gets on base at a slightly better clip, both strike out at about the same rate. Their speed is just about even as is the arm strength. If Rowand can rediscover the power stroke he had in 2004 the differences between Jones and Rowand would virtually dissappear. Jones at this moment is only slightly better than Rowand, not light years ahead of him. He's definitely not enough of an upgrade to spend an extra $4 million over Rowand's salary. Of course you don't believe in stats so why the hell do I even bother trying to make an argument.

You're right he is not a massive upgrade. Personally, I don't think Rowand will rediscover his power stroke and Jones is at least as good a fielder and a better baserunner. I know the he doesn't bunt much, but I still think Jones is more fundamentally sound than Rowand. Jones is better than Rowand, as to whether he's worth the money is the question.

As for your last comment, I'll just ignore it.

Hawk Harrelson
11-03-2005, 11:06 PM
The problem is you are just making things up. Pure and simple.

OK, thanks for the input brother.

Hawk Harrelson
11-03-2005, 11:07 PM
Jones is awful. He may have killed the White Sox over the years but this guy is worth no where near 5M bones. Sorry, he's an average player at best.

I don't understand how you can say he is awful. Definetly above average. He may not be worth the 5 MIL everyone seems to think he is getting, but I think you are underestimating him.

santo=dorf
11-03-2005, 11:17 PM
I don't understand how you can say he is awful. Definetly above average. He may not be worth the 5 MIL everyone seems to think he is getting, but I think you are underestimating him.

So if he's not worth $5 million, what's the point in signing him to a 4 year/ $28 million deal like the Twins fans suggested in this thread? :?:

You just said he's not worth $5 million, so why should the Sox target him?

Hawk Harrelson
11-03-2005, 11:21 PM
So if he's not worth $5 million, what's the point in signing him to a 4 year/ $28 million deal like the Twins fans suggested in this thread? :?:

You just said he's not worth $5 million, so why should the Sox target him?

I am noy saying 5 MIL is a huge mistake but, honestly I had no idea he would be getting so much. Something in the 3 MIL range seems like a good pickup to me though.

Banix12
11-03-2005, 11:29 PM
I am noy saying 5 MIL is a huge mistake but, honestly I had no idea he would be getting so much. Something in the 3 MIL range seems like a good pickup to me though.

Well then just drop this whole matter please. He grudgingly made $5 million this past year, he was hoping to make more than that on the open market when he was a free agent last season. It appears going into this offseason the minimum he will be seeking is $5 million dollars. In a perfect world it looks like he is looking for somewhere in the $6-7 million range over 2 to 3 years.