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Fenway
10-31-2005, 05:45 PM
BREAKING SPORTS NEWS: Theo Epstein has quit as general manager of the Red Sox, according to news reports by WBZ and WHDH-TV. --Developing

http://www.boston.com/

http://cbs4boston.com/topstories/local_story_304172638.html
Report: Theo Epstein Resigns

http://img.viacomlocalnetworks.com/images_sizedimage_161200444/med
Bob Lobel (http://cbs4boston.com/bios/local_bio_052115148)
Reporting

http://www1.whdh.com/images/news_articles/archive/051026_theo_epstein.jpg (http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/sports/BOS8190/)

(CBS4) BOSTON CBS4 Bob Lobel is reporting that Theo Epstein of the Boston Red Sox has resigned.

Stay with CBS4 and CBS4Boston.com as more information becomes available.



(© MMV, CBS Broadcasting, Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

NonetheLoaiza
10-31-2005, 05:48 PM
::yawn::

patbooyah
10-31-2005, 05:49 PM
i heard it was because he went crazy over the fact that PK wants to sign with the sox for 7mil, and refused to listen to boston's 13mil offers...

ilsox7
10-31-2005, 05:49 PM
Gotta love how wrong the media was a few hours ago. What a bunch of idiots trying to break a story and foregoing integrity. As for Theo, good for him. Now he can go somewhere and challenge himself by not having $125MM+ to spend. We'll see if he is the kid genius he has been made out to be. And I am sure some team (Dodgers?) will shell out $2.5MM per for him.

samram
10-31-2005, 05:49 PM
Well, this would contradict earlier reports, just a bit.

Phillies or Dodgers- those have to be the front-runners. That said, do the Dodgers want to try again with a sabermetrics guy? I would be wary given Theo's only experience being with a team having a payroll well in excess of $100 million.

Fenway
10-31-2005, 05:50 PM
::yawn::

The Red Sox lost foolish now given the fact that their assn't GM just took the Arizona job

Lucchino screwed this up BIGTIME!!!!!

Fenway
10-31-2005, 05:51 PM
Gotta love how wrong the media was a few hours ago. What a bunch of idiots trying to break a story and foregoing integrity. As for Theo, good for him. Now he can go somewhere and challenge himself by not having $125MM+ to spend. We'll see if he is the kid genius he has been made out to be. And I am sure some team (Dodgers?) will shell out $2.5MM per for him.

Especially the media outlet that owns 17% of the club.:angry:

The Herald had this right from day one

Baby Fisk
10-31-2005, 05:51 PM
The Black Jays just sacked their assistant GM. Maybe he's lookin' north...

Fenway
10-31-2005, 05:52 PM
The Black Jays just sacked their assistant GM. Maybe he's lookin' north...The Jays GM is from Boston maybe he will look south

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 05:59 PM
Ouch. There goes all that post-championship euphoria.

Really, Lucchino screwed the pooch on this one. Maybe the kid got lucky and maybe some of this was him riding the crest of a huge payroll. But he did deliver the first title in New England since WWI. That deserves the raise and added control he was asking for.

Lucchino had nothing to lose here. If Boy Genius got his control and couldn't deliver on expectations, fine. Fire him and nobody complains. But now...well, I imagine Boston fans are measuring Larry's head for platter space.

I better call my buddy in Cape Cod. When he gets pissed he works on his roof. I imagine he's building a retractable one by now.

Unregistered
10-31-2005, 06:03 PM
I see this backfiring for all involved. I don't think Epstein is going to find the $2.5 Million/year he's looking for elsewhere, and he won't have the payroll or a World Series victory with his new team to fall back on either.

As for the Red Sox, they don't have a GM for the busiest time of the year - and if the media is to be believed, he's shocked the Red Sox front office as much as anyone else.

peeonwrigley
10-31-2005, 06:11 PM
- Finally, some real baseball news! This past month has been so slow!

Unregistered
10-31-2005, 06:16 PM
There's already talk about the new "Epstein Curse." Fantastic. :rolleyes:

http://www.roberthegyes.com/epsteinfolder.jpg

Revolution29
10-31-2005, 06:23 PM
Phillies or Dodgers- those have to be the front-runners. That said, do the Dodgers want to try again with a sabermetrics guy? I would be wary given Theo's only experience being with a team having a payroll well in excess of $100 million.

I think that this is the key here, especially after what we saw KW and the Sox do this year with a payroll of far less. The fact is that if you have a $100 mil plus payroll you can keep throwing more money at your problem spots on the field and hope for the best. This works sometimes (2003 red sawks), sometimes not (this years angels and the choke job of there big money guys agianst us in the ALCS).

What I'm trying to say is that, this guy may or may not be as good as one would think on first sight, and therefore certainly does not merit any team spending 2.5 mil on him when they could be using that for players.

FedEx227
10-31-2005, 06:33 PM
All signs to me point to the Red Sox getting DePodesta.

about Epstein I have no idea...maybe he wants a challenge Tampa D-Rays, their the most willing to spend money on stuff other than players.

Dan Mega
10-31-2005, 06:43 PM
He Gone

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 06:51 PM
All signs to me point to the Red Sox getting DePodesta.

A little lemon juice for the paper cut, eh?

Man, that would be wrong. That would be so very, very wrong.

Fenway
10-31-2005, 07:02 PM
There's already talk about the new "Epstein Curse." Fantastic. :rolleyes:





closer than you know

Here in a nutshell is what happened

Last week the Herald's beat writer blasted the Red Sox for a smear job on Theo

Smear campaign stinks (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109004)


The Globe then countered on Sunday

Theo walks away from Sox (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109723)
By Michael Silverman/ Breaking News
Theo Epstein stunned the Red Sox and the baseball world this afternoon by walking away from his job as general manager. [more (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109723)]

Epstein had come close to agreeing to a deal Saturday evening but had not officially conveyed acceptance of it. On Sunday, he began having serious misgivings about staying on. A leading contributing factor, according to sources close to the situation, was a column in Sunday’s Boston Globe in which too much inside information about the relationship between Epstein and his mentor, team president and CEO Larry Lucchino, was revealed -- in a manner slanted too much in Lucchino’s favor. Epstein, according to these sources, had several reasons to believe Lucchino was a primary source behind the column and came to the realization that if this information were leaked hours before Epstein was going to agree to a new long-term deal, it signaled excessive bad faith between him and Lucchino.


Here is the column by Dan Shaugnessy which has Larry written all over it.

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2005/05/17/1116358947_2206.jpg

Dan Shaughnessy

Dan Shaughnessy's e-mail address is dshaughnessy@globe.com (dshaughnessy@globe.com).


http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/File-Based_Image_Resource/spacer.gifhttp://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/File-Based_Image_Resource/spacer.gifhttp://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/File-Based_Image_Resource/spacer.gifBASEBALL (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball) > RED SOX (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox)
Let's iron out some of this dirty laundry (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/10/30/lets_iron_out_some_of_this_dirty_laundry)

The news conference should be at Fenway tomorrow afternoon. Halloween. No tricks. No boos. Look for the traditional handshake and jack-o-lantern smiles from Theo Epstein and Larry Lucchino. They'll say they look forward to many more years working together to bring championship baseball to Boston. (10/30/05)


You are lucky in Chicago as the media there doesn't get as involved like you see here.
But right now WEEI is radioactive and everybody wants Lucchino's head.

Sons of Sam Horn
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/style_images/sosh/f_norm_no.gif THEO IS GONE (http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=1607) http://sonsofsamhorn.net/style_images/sosh/pages_icon.gif (javascript:multi_page_jump('http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=1607', 170, 20 );) 1 (http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=1607&st=0)2 (http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=1607&st=20)3 (http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=1607&st=40)» 9 (http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=1607&st=160)


Red Sox Nation

Theo Status Thread (http://www.redsoxnation.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18531) http://www.redsoxnation.net/forums/style_images/1/pages_icon.gif (javascript:multi_page_jump('http://www.redsoxnation.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18531', 700, 20 );) 1 (http://www.redsoxnation.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18531&st=0)2 (http://www.redsoxnation.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18531&st=20)3 (http://www.redsoxnation.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18531&st=40)» 35 (http://www.redsoxnation.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18531&st=680) Breaking news.... Theo IS GONE! 10/31

Banix12
10-31-2005, 07:15 PM
Part of me would like to see the Red Sox grab up DePodesta, mostly because if DePodesta does the hack job he did in Dodgertown in Boston that would really quite a lot of the Moneyball fans who think he got hosed.

First order of business for the Red Sox if DePodesta is hired... Sign Valentin and continue to be Scott Boras' bitch.

jabrch
10-31-2005, 07:16 PM
The Red Sox lost foolish now given the fact that their assn't GM just took the Arizona job

Lucchino screwed this up BIGTIME!!!!!

::YAWN

WHO CARES? Isn't there a Red Sox board somewhere?

Fenway
10-31-2005, 07:18 PM
::YAWN

WHO CARES? Isn't there a Red Sox board somewhere?

already KW's name being put out there for the job. (among others )

Fenway
10-31-2005, 07:27 PM
Red Sox press release
BOSTON -- The Boston Red Sox and Theo Epstein today announced that the Senior Vice President/General Manager has declined the club's offer to extend his contract for future years and thus will step down from his post. Epstein will continue, however, to work with the organization for several days to assist in an orderly transition and to prepare further for the upcoming GM meetings and other off-season activities.


A statement from Theo Epstein
10/31/2005 7:00 PM ET
First, I want to thank John Henry, Tom Werner, and Larry Lucchino for the opportunity to serve as General Manager for the last three seasons. Their support and friendship mean a lot to me, and I wish them all well. I also owe a debt of gratitude to the players, Terry Francona, the coaching staff, the front office, the baseball operations staff, and the fans for making my Red Sox experience so meaningful.

Growing up in the shadow of Fenway Park, I never dreamed of having the chance to work for my hometown team during such an historic period.

My decision not to return as General Manager of the Red Sox is an extremely difficult one. I will always cherish the relationships I developed here and am proud to have worked side-by-side with so many great people, in and out of uniform, as together we brought a World Championship to Boston.

In my time as General Manager, I gave my entire heart and soul to the organization. During the process leading up to today's decision, I came to the conclusion that I can no longer do so. In the end, my choice is the right one not only for me but for the Red Sox.

My affection for the Red Sox did not begin four years ago when I started working here, and it does not end today. I will remain on the job for several days as we finalize preparation for next week's general managers meetings. Thereafter, I will make myself available to the organization to ensure a smooth and stable transition.



My passion for and dedication to the game of baseball remain strong. Although I have no immediate plans, I will embrace this change in my life and look forward with excitement to the future.

MadetoOrta
10-31-2005, 07:28 PM
already KW's name being put out there for the job. (among others )

Dream on. Why the %$@ am I even responding to anything about the red cubs?:angry:

buehrle4cy05
10-31-2005, 07:40 PM
Is Dan Evans availible?

1951Campbell
10-31-2005, 07:44 PM
Lucchino screwed this up BIGTIME!!!!!

Don't worry. Epstein was in the twilight of his career anyway.

chisoxmike
10-31-2005, 07:46 PM
already KW's name being put out there for the job. (among others )

HA! Not happening.

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 07:47 PM
Is Dan Evans availible?

Oh that's goooood!

Looks like the Red Sox folks seriously want them a heapin' helpin' of DePodesta. Talk about giving the pyromaniac the Zippo.

Bad day for Boston.

SOXintheBURGH
10-31-2005, 08:12 PM
There's already talk about the new "Epstein Curse." Fantastic. :rolleyes:

http://www.roberthegyes.com/epsteinfolder.jpg



Beauty.:redneck

CHISOXFAN13
10-31-2005, 08:22 PM
already KW's name being put out there for the job. (among others )

By who, you or is it some blowhard on Boston sports blab radio? That's ridiculous.

Tragg
10-31-2005, 08:26 PM
Gordon Ash would be a steal for the RedSox.

Banix12
10-31-2005, 08:35 PM
Oh that's goooood!

Looks like the Red Sox folks seriously want them a heapin' helpin' of DePodesta. Talk about giving the pyromaniac the Zippo.

Bad day for Boston.

Nothing like clamoring for the guy that inherited a team from another GM, wins with the other guy's roster, and then proceeds to turn the whole team upside down over the course of one offseason turning it into a 4th place finisher in the worst division in baseball.

Please, please hire this man Boston! Tampa needs to finish ahead of somebody!

32nd&Wallace
10-31-2005, 09:01 PM
:schueler :schueler
I love that Dirty Water - Boston you're my home!

cwsfannick
10-31-2005, 09:02 PM
What about John Hart? Here's a guy who is all about offense and know very little and care very little about pitching. This would be an ideal team as it is setup right now for Hart. Also he would be reunited with Manny.

Mr. White Sox
10-31-2005, 09:21 PM
already KW's name being put out there for the job. (among others )

Just because a name is "put out there" by the Red Sox doesn't make the flies that are GMs get attracted to the lovely honey pot that is Boston. KW has ties to the White Sox, and there's no way he leaves unless he retires or gets fired. Book it. I GUARANTEE IT. I will eat the biggest heaping pile of crow ever if he gets hired by Boston, because it will.not.happen. I'm not even a big fan of KW's, but he's better than anyone out on the market, and this statement still stands.

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 09:37 PM
Nothing like clamoring for the guy that inherited a team from another GM, wins with the other guy's roster, and then proceeds to turn the whole team upside down over the course of one offseason turning it into a 4th place finisher in the worst division in baseball.

Thank you!

This is what I've been trying to explain to my stathead friends who are saying DePodesta didn't get a fair shake. Their principle argument is that he was fired just one year after taking them to the playoffs. No one ever acknowledges that it wasn't his roster or his team to begin with. It's like getting called into pinch run for a guy on third base and claiming you hit a triple.

DePodesta was given one of the easiest starting points of any GM in history. This putz got a fifty yard head start and still couldn't swing it. They handed him the keys to a Bentley and he traded it in for a Yugo because the Yugo had a better VORP. Unreal.

DePodesta pulled a Huizenga in LA, and he'd do the same thing in Boston. Of course, the FOBB apologists would blame it on Lucchino (as they are blaming DePodesta's exit on McCourt). But that kid is just bad news.

Boston, if you really want Paul DePodesta, I have a house I'd like to sell you.

FarWestChicago
10-31-2005, 09:43 PM
DePodesta pulled a Huizenga in LA, and he'd do the same thing in Boston. Of course, the FOBB apologists would blame it on Lucchino (as they are blaming DePodesta's exit on McCourt). But that kid is just bad news.I almost wonder if the Beane Sprouts have egos as massive as Billy. It's like they are more concerned with being hailed as "geniuses" for making radical moves than they are with winning.

:KW

I'll let you Sprouts look and my WS ring some day.

Flight #24
10-31-2005, 09:53 PM
I almost wonder if the Beane Sprouts have egos as massive as Billy. It's like they are more concerned with being hailed as "geniuses" for making radical moves than they are with winning.



Hard to tell since they never really win anything.....better to look the genius part and not win than just plain not win.

Or you could just not care what happens if you don't win and go all-out for the big prize.

:KW
"You rang?"

nodiggity59
10-31-2005, 10:13 PM
I'm interested to see what Epstein can do w/ a smaller payroll. Let's face it, he's been extremely over rated. His World Series would have been nowhere without Pedro and Lowe who miraculously transformed into their former Cy Young talent personas only in the playoffs, Ortiz who was better beyond anyone's (including Theo's) wildest dreams (he should've gone to Vegas with that luck, an MVP for peanuts?). His two shrewd moves (signing Foulke and trading for Schilling) were no brainers for a guy w/ $120mil.

He needs to do much better to impress me. Kenny forged a 99 win, 11-1 postseason on $75 mil and entirely on his own moves. Epstein did it post 2001 Yankees (aka Playstation GM) style, it just happened to work for him and not for the Yanks.

Flight #24
10-31-2005, 10:23 PM
Most important question in all of this: How does this impact the construction of any potential offers to Paul Konerko? In the span of less than a week, the Red Sox lost their top 2 FO guys (asst GM went to AZ).

IMO this is pretty good news for the Sox. Even if the Red Sox move quickly to find their new GM, the guy's going to have to figure out his plan for the team, figure out what he wants to/can do financially, and what his options are. Id' be surprised if all of that happens in the next 10 days. So it might take waiting a bit if Konerko wants to see what the BoSox offer up. Or he might not care because he wasn't really interested in them anyway.

A. Cavatica
10-31-2005, 10:48 PM
I bet the Red Sox cave within 24 hours - this is a PR disaster for them

MRKARNO
10-31-2005, 10:49 PM
IMO this is pretty good news for the Sox. Even if the Red Sox move quickly to find their new GM, the guy's going to have to figure out his plan for the team, figure out what he wants to/can do financially, and what his options are. Id' be surprised if all of that happens in the next 10 days. So it might take waiting a bit if Konerko wants to see what the BoSox offer up. Or he might not care because he wasn't really interested in them anyway.

I think from the perspective of signing FAs, it's a good thing because new GMs don't have their plans in place and may not be able to move quick enough. On the other hand, it will be harder to make trades and I think this team has a few trades to make to put itself in position to repeat, Konerko or no Konerko. Now that we have the starting rotation in place with Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras and McCarthy, we need to do some tinkering to the starting lineup to ensure the best chance of a repeat.

DumpJerry
10-31-2005, 11:14 PM
Anyone who thinks that there is a possibility of Kenny going to another team is completely out of touch with reality. Once you learn of the history of KW and JR, you realize that KW will be with the Sox until he is tired of the job.

Norberto7
10-31-2005, 11:19 PM
already KW's name being put out there for the job. (among others )

You know, there is another higher-up in the White Sox organization that has Boston ties and general managing experience whose name should be mentioned.....












:hawk

"That is B.S.!"

gobears1987
10-31-2005, 11:35 PM
You know, there is another higher-up in the White Sox organization that has Boston ties and general managing experience whose name should be mentioned.....












:hawk

"That is B.S.!"Boston can't be dumb to make that mistake. We saw 1986 with Hawk.

gf2020
10-31-2005, 11:47 PM
The thing that concerns me is how this will affect the Konerko situation, which we need resolved one way or another as soon as possible. Any agent with a brain will wait for the Red Sox to be ready to enter the bidding, so that they can have maximum leverage. If it takes a few weeks to get their house in order, we might be stuck waiting until they decide what they want to do.

Also, from what I understand, Theo didn't want to trade Manny and without moving him, I failed to see where they were getting the money to bid on Konerko. Now that Luchino guy might force the issue and whoever comes in will be smart enough to know that Ortiz will still need protection.

Even if the Red Sox don't get Konerko, they could at the very least push his price way up and make signing him a tough pill that we have to swallow.

And yes, I view everything that happens in the baseball universe by how it will affect the White Sox.

DSpivack
11-01-2005, 12:05 AM
Lucchino: Epstein= McCaskey: Mcginnis?

Banix12
11-01-2005, 12:12 AM
The thing that concerns me is how this will affect the Konerko situation, which we need resolved one way or another as soon as possible. Any agent with a brain will wait for the Red Sox to be ready to enter the bidding, so that they can have maximum leverage. If it takes a few weeks to get their house in order, we might be stuck waiting until they decide what they want to do.

Also, from what I understand, Theo didn't want to trade Manny and without moving him, I failed to see where they were getting the money to bid on Konerko. Now that Luchino guy might force the issue and whoever comes in will be smart enough to know that Ortiz will still need protection.

Even if the Red Sox don't get Konerko, they could at the very least push his price way up and make signing him a tough pill that we have to swallow.

And yes, I view everything that happens in the baseball universe by how it will affect the White Sox.


My guess is this will very little effect if any on Konerko's situtation. I think we have all seen from his demeanor and how he interacts with the media that he is a fairly private guy who would rather not have attention drawn to him. My guess is Boston doesn't interest Konerko because he doesn't want anything to do with the Boston Media. That seems to be a feeling shared by quite a few guys, Theo, Manny, etc.

I think Boston already knows this and I pretty much doubt they even offer him a contract. Anyway, if they hire another Moneyball GM, especially one who emphisizes cost efficiency, I doubt he would offer much more than what the white sox would offer. In the dealings we have seen with Manny and Pedro it seems the Red Sox have little interest in offering max contracts, they want to find bargains. A new GM might change this but I think a lot of that attitude came from the owner.

Konerko already has all the leverage in the world, Boston won't add much more. I expect him to be back in a white sox uniform because most of the other teams that can afford him are all in cities with notoriously aggressive media personalities and fan bases rabid to the point of insanity. I think the only fit for him other than here is Anaheim and I think Kenny knows this.

Fenway
11-01-2005, 09:30 AM
wot a mess :angry:

The Herald blames the Globe Shaugnessey says blame him if you must. In my years of watching Boston baseball, I have never seen a firestorm like this

Boston Globe
DAN SHAUGHNESSY: Intentional walk (http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2005/11/01/intentional_walk)
(By Dan Shaughnessy, Globe Columnist)
Not a good day. Not a good day at all. One of the brightest minds ever to grace the Red Sox front office is gone. Theo Epstein was instrumental in delivering Boston's first baseball championship in 86 years and now, at the age of 31, after only three years on the job, he is gone because he no longer feels

BOB RYAN: Power in lineup rests with Lucchino (http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2005/11/01/power_in_lineup_rests_with_lucchino)
(By Bob Ryan, Globe Columnist) We now know one area in which John Henry can economize. I mean, who needs a general manager? He has Larry Lucchino.

ON BASEBALL: Who's on deck? One name to circle is Towers (http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2005/11/01/whos_on_deck_one_name_to_circle_is_towers)
(By Gordon Edes, Globe Staff) People have changed their minds before. Billy Beane was Red Sox general manager for about 48 hours before deciding he preferred to remain on the West Coast. Ken Macha rejected a contract extension to manage the Oakland Athletics, then came back a week later and decided the job wasn't so bad after all.

Boston Herald

Theo turns in his Sox -- GM rejects last offer, leaves team (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109804)
By Michael Silverman
Once Theo Epstein finally decided that his dream job was anything but, the Red Sox were left wondering if this was all just a nightmare. Epstein walked away from his general manager’s post yesterday, dealing a stunning blow to the heart... [more (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109804)]


GM search won’t be easy (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109795)
By Michael Silverman

Given the complicated reasons behind Theo Epstein’s departure as Red Sox general manager,... [more (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109795)]


Lucchino the goat: CEO bumbles Epstein deal (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109803)
By Tony Massarotti/ Baseball
Larry Lucchino botched this from Day One, plain and simple, no ifs, ands or buts. The Red Sox can spin, distort and disguise the reality all they want, but the departure... [more (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=109803)]

Cozy Sox-Globe ties called into question (http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=109784)
By Scott Van Voorhis
Cozy ownership ties between the Red Sox and The Boston Globe, touted by backers as corporate synergy, may now look more incestuous with Sox wonderkind... [more (http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=109784)]

http://news.bostonherald.com/galleries/images/427818_front11012005.jpg(Tuesday, November 1, 2005)

Fenway
11-01-2005, 09:54 AM
Boston can't be dumb to make that mistake. We saw 1986 with Hawk.

we could always hire :boston :?:

samram
11-01-2005, 10:23 AM
already KW's name being put out there for the job. (among others )

Well, the Red Sox are moving ever so much closer to being the Yankees East, now that they and their media lackeys simply throw out any name suiting their taste. What is so god damn special about the Red Sox that he would actually leave the team that drafted him and trained him on the business side of baseball for a team to which he has no connection?

I wonder if people from Boston know that outside of Boston, Bristol, CT, and the Fox studios, no one gives a **** about the Red Sox.

Cambridge
11-01-2005, 10:59 AM
I wonder if people in Boston know that outside of Boston, Bristol, CT, and the Fox studios, no one gives a **** about the Red Sox.

Take a look at how many Red Sox fans are in ballparks around the country when Boston is in town. Like it or not, a LOT of people give a you-know-what about the Red Sox.

Mickster
11-01-2005, 11:31 AM
Take a look at how many Red Sox fans are in ballparks around the country when Boston is in town. Like it or not, a LOT of people give a you-know-what about the Red Sox.

http://library.concord.edu/Archives/band.jpg + http://www.temmeseed.com/images/Covered%20Wagon%202.jpg

34 Inch Stick
11-01-2005, 11:44 AM
Nice job Mickster.

I'm just wondering how baseball itself will survive without one of its cornerstones.

As I have said in Beane discussions, genius' are over at Fermilab attempting to figure out how a particle traveled backward in time for a fraction of a second. They are not attempting to figure out how to trade Manny Ramirez without having to eat his full salary.

TomBradley72
11-01-2005, 12:20 PM
Cozy Sox-Globe ties called into question (http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=109784)
By Scott Van Voorhis
Cozy ownership ties between the Red Sox and The Boston Globe, touted by backers as corporate synergy, may now look more incestuous with Sox wonderkind... [more (http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=109784)](Tuesday, November 1, 2005)



I bet the Boston Braves fans really resent the tie between the dominant team in Boston and the leading newspaper.

TomBradley72
11-01-2005, 12:22 PM
“This is the problem with conglomerated media. When the ownership of media companies have separate interests . . . there is a tendency to compromise the reporting,” said Timothy Karr of Washington, D.C. media watchdog group Free Press. “A lot of journalists will tell you there is a Chinese wall that separates the newsroom from the corporate side. We have found repeatedly over the past few years that that is not the case.”

Good thing we'd never see this dynamic in Chicago.

Foulke You
11-01-2005, 12:58 PM
::YAWN

WHO CARES? Isn't there a Red Sox board somewhere?
This is the TALKING BASEBALL board where we talk about other teams besides the White Sox. I certainly think the big story involving Theo Epstein qualifies as news about another team.

I will never understand the people that jump all over Fenway for posting these things.:?: I for one, like to know what is going on around the league. Might I suggest sticking to the Sox Clubhouse board if you don't want to read stories about the Red Sox or other teams?

WestSox
11-01-2005, 12:59 PM
Take a look at how many Red Sox fans are in ballparks around the country when Boston is in town. Like it or not, a LOT of people give a you-know-what about the Red Sox.

Yep, and I saw a number of them acting like Yankees fans at the Cell last year. After years of Yankees fans treating them like crap, they go do the same thing to other teams. How nice. :rolleyes:

Almost all of the Red Sox fans I know outside of the Northeast are transplants. People who weren't born into Red Sox Nation typically don't give a rat's arse about them.

Foulke You
11-01-2005, 12:59 PM
Dream on. Why the %$@ am I even responding to anything about the red cubs?:angry:
See my above post.

Fenway
11-01-2005, 02:17 PM
I bet the Boston Braves fans really resent the tie between the dominant team in Boston and the leading newspaper.


touche

its a weird dynamic

Globe writers are forbidden to appear on WEEI ( but Herald writers can )

Globe guys can appear anywhere else

Bottom line the SS Red Sox is heading for the iceberg without anybody on the bridge

nodiggity59
11-01-2005, 05:47 PM
Take a look at how many Red Sox fans are in ballparks around the country when Boston is in town. Like it or not, a LOT of people give a you-know-what about the Red Sox.

The Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs have a lot of fans. But they constitute maybe, maybe 20% of baseball fans. Everyone else hates their ****ing guts.

SOXintheBURGH
11-01-2005, 06:05 PM
The Red Sox, Yankees, and Cubs have a lot of fans. But they constitute maybe, maybe 20% of baseball fans. Everyone else hates their ****ing guts.

You mean people like me?

Baby Fisk
11-01-2005, 06:08 PM
Wouldn't be remotely surprised if everything was all kissy-huggy tomorrow. What a soap opera.

Next week, on a very special episode of All My Yawkeys...

http://espn.starwave.com/media/mlb/2005/0728/photo/g_manny_195.jpg
"I should be General Manager. I deserve to be General Manager. THIS IS MY DEMAND! MAKE ME GENERAL MANAGER OR I QUIT! FOR REAL THIS TIME! I MEAN IT!"

Mr. White Sox
11-01-2005, 06:20 PM
This is the TALKING BASEBALL board where we talk about other teams besides the White Sox. I certainly think the big story involving Theo Epstein qualifies as news about another team.

I will never understand the people that jump all over Fenway for posting these things.:?: I for one, like to know what is going on around the league. Might I suggest sticking to the Sox Clubhouse board if you don't want to read stories about the Red Sox or other teams?

Good point. The topic of the thread says something Boston related, so if you don't want to read about it, don't open it. However, I think a few people here are testy because fenway mentioned KW's name "being thrown out there." Otherwise, this would be a friendly discussion, I'd think (hope?).

Fenway
11-01-2005, 06:23 PM
some audio on Theo's resignation
November 1, 2005 - Terry Francona - Red Sox Manager (http://eod.liquidviewer.com/weei-od/110105Francona.wma)
November 1, 2005 - Michael Silverman - Boston Herald Red Sox Beat Reporter (http://eod.liquidviewer.com/weei-od/110105MikeSilverman.wma)
November 1, 2005 - J.P. Ricciardi - Blue Jays GM (http://eod.liquidviewer.com/weei-od/110105JPRicciardi.wma)

NWSox
11-01-2005, 11:59 PM
Oh what a difference a year makes. People are now talking about the White Sox as a model organization and KW as the ideal GM. The Red Sox are a soap opera that can't do anything right. Obviously hyperbole takes over this time of year, but one contrast between the two organizations is apparent - Reinsdorf, despite all his faults, is as loyal as them come and runs his organization like a family. The Red Sox are corporate america where backstabbing and office politics rule. KW has been treated like family by Reinsdorf since he was drafted and for that reason will never leave for a "better offer." Everyone involved in this Red Sox saga is a baby - Lucchino and Epstein included. These guys don't know how good they have it. One year removed from a world championship and they're fighting like little kids.

I also find it amusing that Boston and national writers are shocked by the intertwined relationship between the Globe and the Red Sox. Hello??? Take a look to the west and see what happens when a media conglomerate owns 100% of a franchise. This has been going on for years.

Fenway
11-02-2005, 09:14 AM
You hit it right on the nose.

Papers still radioactive a day later ( and these are FRONT pages )


But the most interesting take was by Gammons and for those that love Peter you will be amused by Glenn Ordway telling Gammons on the air he is wrong

Peter Gammons - November 1st (http://eod.liquidviewer.com/weei-od/gammons_BS_1101.wma)

The NY Times/Globe/NESN connection is hurting the Red Sox badly and in some ways it is worse than the Tribune and the Cubs.


http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox.bg

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/



http://news.bostonherald.com/galleries/images/748263_front11022005.jpg(Wednesday, November 2, 2005)





http://www.newseum.org/media/dfp/lg/MA_BG.jpg






Oh what a difference a year makes. People are now talking about the White Sox as a model organization and KW as the ideal GM. The Red Sox are a soap opera that can't do anything right. Obviously hyperbole takes over this time of year, but one contrast between the two organizations is apparent - Reinsdorf, despite all his faults, is as loyal as them come and runs his organization like a family. The Red Sox are corporate america where backstabbing and office politics rule. KW has been treated like family by Reinsdorf since he was drafted and for that reason will never leave for a "better offer." Everyone involved in this Red Sox saga is a baby - Lucchino and Epstein included. These guys don't know how good they have it. One year removed from a world championship and they're fighting like little kids.

I also find it amusing that Boston and national writers are shocked by the intertwined relationship between the Globe and the Red Sox. Hello??? Take a look to the west and see what happens when a media conglomerate owns 100% of a franchise. This has been going on for years.

The_Floridian
11-02-2005, 10:07 AM
That's an interesting radio piece. I never would have considered how much ticket prices and things like that could be a factor in the offseason. Obviously Boston needs to re-tool with younger players, and the best way to that would be to go, "Well, we're going to have to suck in '06 in order to be strong from '07 on." But it sounds like no one in Boston is going to accept that.

I can't imagine a front office in more of a bind than the one the Red Sox are in right now. They need to cut payroll and get younger if they're going to compete long term, but their fan base is so outraged over Theo they are probably going to decide they need to get some more veteran names to try and win immediately, a la the Yanks. The bad part about that is they'll have to deplete what is a pretty strong farm system just to appease the fans.

Yikes. What a nightmare.

Fenway
11-02-2005, 10:26 AM
Ticket prices are an issue in Boston. A seat that went for $16 in 1996 will cost $95 in 2006. That is insane.

Another problem Gammons pointed out is in 3 years the Yankees will have another 90 Million to play with because of the new Yankee Stadium. MLB has to get some sort of salary cap in place.


That's an interesting radio piece. I never would have considered how much ticket prices and things like that could be a factor in the offseason. Obviously Boston needs to re-tool with younger players, and the best way to that would be to go, "Well, we're going to have to suck in '06 in order to be strong from '07 on." But it sounds like no one in Boston is going to accept that.

I can't imagine a front office in more of a bind than the one the Red Sox are in right now. They need to cut payroll and get younger if they're going to compete long term, but their fan base is so outraged over Theo they are probably going to decide they need to get some more veteran names to try and win immediately, a la the Yanks. The bad part about that is they'll have to deplete what is a pretty strong farm system just to appease the fans.

Yikes. What a nightmare.

JoeyCora28
11-02-2005, 10:58 AM
Ticket prices are an issue in Boston. A seat that went for $16 in 1996 will cost $95 in 2006. That is insane.

Another problem Gammons pointed out is in 3 years the Yankees will have another 90 Million to play with because of the new Yankee Stadium. MLB has to get some sort of salary cap in place.

So, it's up to the owners to help protect the Red Sox from the "big, bad Yankees"? Look, as far as I'm concerned, you're the only other team out there spending boatloads of money. That's YOUR team's choice, live with it and the $95 ticket prices that come with it...

Fenway
11-02-2005, 12:00 PM
So, it's up to the owners to help protect the Red Sox from the "big, bad Yankees"? Look, as far as I'm concerned, you're the only other team out there spending boatloads of money. That's YOUR team's choice, live with it and the $95 ticket prices that come with it...

choice? we stuck in the same division as NYY so what choice do the owners have?

What chance does Tampa Bay have in that division??????

samram
11-02-2005, 12:30 PM
choice? we stuck in the same division as NYY so what choice do the owners have?

What chance does Tampa Bay have in that division??????

Maybe that's true, that Boston has to spend a ton to compete (although the three best teams in the AL spent considerably less than either NY or Boston). However, I find it amusing that a fan of one the highest revenue and payroll teams in MLB suddenly jumps on the salary cap bandwagon based on an expected increase in revenue for its chief competitor.

Fenway
11-02-2005, 12:32 PM
Maybe that's true, that Boston has to spend a ton to compete (although the three best teams in the AL spent considerably less than either NY or Boston). However, I find it amusing that a fan of one the highest revenue and payroll teams in MLB suddenly jumps on the salary cap bandwagon based on an expected increase in revenue for its chief competitor.

Boston spent yes BUT

the difference between Boston and NYY was almost 80 million and will almost certainly widen The Yankees need to be slowed down somehow for the good of all of baseball

Fenway
11-02-2005, 12:37 PM
Hell froze over

The Boston Globe allowed Dan Shaughnessy to speak to WEEI

11/2/05 Dan Shaughnessy--Boston Globe (http://www.weei.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=382931&PT=AudioVault)
11/2/05 Dan Shaughnessy Segment 2 (http://www.weei.com/listingsEntry.asp?ID=382932&PT=AudioVault)

and on another front

The car dealership that gave Foulke a truck for 2005 wants it back and can't find him

JoeyCora28
11-02-2005, 01:11 PM
choice? we stuck in the same division as NYY so what choice do the owners have?



What chance does Tampa Bay have in that division??????


And how many World Series titles has George bought with that $750+ million over the last 5 years?

Zero.

Yes, he's got to the Playoffs, but after that, nada... nothing...

If you are so worried about what the new Yankee Stadium will mean to their ability to spend, I suggest Boston should think about demolishing their dump and build a new stadium that will generate more revenue. Please spare me the "for the good of baseball" stuff.

Fenway
11-02-2005, 01:24 PM
Please spare me the "for the good of baseball" stuff.

I would be first in line to blow up Fenway but we stuck with the dump


But sooner or later the Yankees spending affects everybody

BNLSox
11-02-2005, 01:58 PM
Fenway is 100% right. Yankee spending hurts baseball. What chance do we have to continue to compete if the teams that are willing to step up their payrolls in the wake of the Yankees start taking our free agents.

Yankee spending over the past 10 years and the rest of the MLB's response to it could end Konerko's career with the White Sox. Yes many teams are refusing to up the ante, but not all of them and thus the vicious cycle continues and will only allow middle market teams like ours to compete by taking risks on supposedly washed up (Dye, El Duque, Contreras), cancerous (Everett, A.J.), foreign (Tadahito), etc. We got really lucky with all of these guys coming together to play at their best. Yes KW deserves all the credit in the world for fostering an environment where these guys could be at their best.

A salary cap would do wonders for this league. It would reward quality franchises and give everyone a chance to win. It would end the media bias and take away the star power and make this league more about tradition a team marketing (ie The NFL).

Enough with Yankee spending. Lets get back to quality and equity. Otherwise its going to be Angels, Red Sox, Yankees, Diamondbacks, Mets, and Cubs buying veterans and the rest of the league rolling the dice and hoping that quality managing, good luck, and timing equate in success.

FarWestChicago
11-02-2005, 02:15 PM
It would end the media bias and take away the star power and make this league more about tradition a team marketing (ie The NFL).The problem being the NFL blows. Every team sucks. :redneck

fquaye149
11-02-2005, 02:49 PM
Fenway is 100% right. Yankee spending hurts baseball. What chance do we have to continue to compete if the teams that are willing to step up their payrolls in the wake of the Yankees start taking our free agents.

Yankee spending over the past 10 years and the rest of the MLB's response to it could end Konerko's career with the White Sox. Yes many teams are refusing to up the ante, but not all of them and thus the vicious cycle continues and will only allow middle market teams like ours to compete by taking risks on supposedly washed up (Dye, El Duque, Contreras), cancerous (Everett, A.J.), foreign (Tadahito), etc. We got really lucky with all of these guys coming together to play at their best. Yes KW deserves all the credit in the world for fostering an environment where these guys could be at their best.

A salary cap would do wonders for this league. It would reward quality franchises and give everyone a chance to win. It would end the media bias and take away the star power and make this league more about tradition a team marketing (ie The NFL).

Enough with Yankee spending. Lets get back to quality and equity. Otherwise its going to be Angels, Red Sox, Yankees, Diamondbacks, Mets, and Cubs buying veterans and the rest of the league rolling the dice and hoping that quality managing, good luck, and timing equate in success.

So if the Yankees hadn't spent all that money we would have only needed 11 postseason games, not 12?

I'm sick of hearing bitching about the Yankees spending. They have dug themselves a hole they can't spend their way out of. So what they overpaid for Pavano, Wright, Sheffield? I don't give a care. I'm damn glad we didn't get any of them. We got El Duque and we got him cheap. We got Pierzynski and we got him cheap. We got Iguchi and we got him cheap.

This is just like the real world. You've got to spend money to make money but spending money don't always make money.

I guess we could make this into the NFL but then I might stop watching. At least in the NFL there's people hurting each other to distract you from the mindnumbing anonymity of every ****ing single ****ing team being 9-7

JoeyCora28
11-02-2005, 03:35 PM
I would be first in line to blow up Fenway but we stuck with the dump


But sooner or later the Yankees spending affects everybody


George's spending has NEVER affected the way Uncle Jerry here spends...

(Well, maybe once, the Albert Belle deal. But we all saw how that turned out!)

34 Inch Stick
11-02-2005, 05:40 PM
Joey, I think the Steinbrenner spending has adjusted the market for every player. Those numbers are used in everything from arbitration to the starting price of free agents.

Flight #24
11-02-2005, 06:11 PM
So if the Yankees hadn't spent all that money we would have only needed 11 postseason games, not 12?

I'm sick of hearing bitching about the Yankees spending. They have dug themselves a hole they can't spend their way out of. So what they overpaid for Pavano, Wright, Sheffield? I don't give a care. I'm damn glad we didn't get any of them. We got El Duque and we got him cheap. We got Pierzynski and we got him cheap. We got Iguchi and we got him cheap.

This is just like the real world. You've got to spend money to make money but spending money don't always make money.

I guess we could make this into the NFL but then I might stop watching. At least in the NFL there's people hurting each other to distract you from the mindnumbing anonymity of every ****ing single ****ing team being 9-7

we'll see if the Yanks can't spend their way out of the hole they're in. For example, if they had that projected $90M to spend in '06, they'd merely book the losses on their '05 signings and go get Konerko, Burnett, Wagner (as a setup guy paid $15M/yr), Giles, etc.

There is no hole that you can't spend your way out of if you have enough $$$.

Fenway
11-02-2005, 06:25 PM
Theo had a long press conference at Fenway


trancript link
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

fquaye149
11-02-2005, 07:01 PM
we'll see if the Yanks can't spend their way out of the hole they're in. For example, if they had that projected $90M to spend in '06, they'd merely book the losses on their '05 signings and go get Konerko, Burnett, Wagner (as a setup guy paid $15M/yr), Giles, etc.

There is no hole that you can't spend your way out of if you have enough $$$.

I highlighted the key passage for you. Their payroll is currently 200 million. They lose Bernie. Ok. To get the pitching and position players they'll need, I'm looking at a 30 million payroll increase. With the Bernie loss that's 220 million. That's a lot of money, a quarter billion, nearly.

Does George have that money? I dunno. It's a McCaskey problem now - for next year the Yankees will sell out every game regardless if they spend 30 million more or not. They're not going to MAKE any money spending 30 million more. Can they AFFORD to spend 30 million more?

You tell me.

gf2020
11-02-2005, 07:38 PM
I highlighted the key passage for you. Their payroll is currently 200 million. They lose Bernie. Ok. To get the pitching and position players they'll need, I'm looking at a 30 million payroll increase. With the Bernie loss that's 220 million. That's a lot of money, a quarter billion, nearly.

Does George have that money? I dunno. It's a McCaskey problem now - for next year the Yankees will sell out every game regardless if they spend 30 million more or not. They're not going to MAKE any money spending 30 million more. Can they AFFORD to spend 30 million more?

You tell me.

They won't:

From http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/360438p-307118c.html
As far as the Yankee payroll goes, Cashman is looking at an initial credit of about $55 million, with Bernie Williams, Kevin Brown, Steve Karsay, Felix Rodriguez, Ruben Sierra, Tom Gordon and Mike Stanton all coming off the books.

Between a new contract for Hideki Matsui that will likely raise his salary about $4 million, plus about $10 million for all the other salary increases on backloaded long-term contracts, that number is reduced to about $40 million. The idea is to chop at least $10-15 million off the payroll, meaning Cashman should still have $25-30 million to apply toward center field and at least three relievers.

maurice
11-02-2005, 07:51 PM
Losing Gordon would just create another hole in their already crappy pitching staff. They were winning with smoke and mirrors down the stretch. You have to expect a dropoff from guys like Chacon (7-3, 2.85 ERA) and Small (10-0, 3.20 ERA) in 2006, and the rest of the starters aren't getting any younger.

Flight #24
11-03-2005, 10:14 AM
I highlighted the key passage for you. Their payroll is currently 200 million. They lose Bernie. Ok. To get the pitching and position players they'll need, I'm looking at a 30 million payroll increase. With the Bernie loss that's 220 million. That's a lot of money, a quarter billion, nearly.

Does George have that money? I dunno. It's a McCaskey problem now - for next year the Yankees will sell out every game regardless if they spend 30 million more or not. They're not going to MAKE any money spending 30 million more. Can they AFFORD to spend 30 million more?

You tell me.

I'm just going off the Gammons quote that in a few years they'll have $90M more to spend because of the new stadium. $90M buys you a lot, and lets you cover a lot of mistakes. Sure, it may not mean anything this year, but if he's right, it's not far off from happening. Which means the question becomes: Will George bite the bullet for 1-2 years, allocate that money now, and try to win ASAP? Wouldn't surprise me if he did.

Fenway
11-03-2005, 11:44 AM
Theogate Day 4

Things haven't let up yet and the owner is in complete shock


http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox.bg

A trail of missteps (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/11/03/a_trail_of_missteps_in_epstein_talks)

A pained and regretful John W. Henry sat before a gathering of local and national media at Fenway Park yesterday and accepted complete responsibility for general manager Theo Epstein's stunning exit from the Red Sox, going so far as to question his own ability to operate as principal owner of the franchise. (Today's Globe)


BOB RYAN (http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/ryan/)
Getting in the last words (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/11/03/getting_in_the_last_words)

It wasn't the money. It wasn't burnout. It wasn't a feeling of fulfillment over winning the World Series. It wasn't Larry Lucchino. So why was Theo Epstein officially saying goodbye yesterday? (Today's Globe)






http://news.bostonherald.com/galleries/images/980157_front11032005.jpg(Thursday, November 3, 2005)

http://graphics.boston.com/globe/acrobat/today.jpeg

Fenway
11-03-2005, 11:49 AM
I'm just going off the Gammons quote that in a few years they'll have $90M more to spend because of the new stadium. $90M buys you a lot, and lets you cover a lot of mistakes. Sure, it may not mean anything this year, but if he's right, it's not far off from happening. Which means the question becomes: Will George bite the bullet for 1-2 years, allocate that money now, and try to win ASAP? Wouldn't surprise me if he did.

another thing to consider is their NON baseball revenue aka ownership of the YES Network. The money being taken in by YES is staggering. The Yankees get $ 1.00 per month for every cable home in New York STATE, 2/3's of New Jersey and all of Connecticut. That is a lot of money. It dwarfs what the Red Sox can do in New England.


If you have cable in BUFFALO, part of your bill goes to Mr Steinbrenner

The YES Network launched on March 19, 2002 as a 24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week premier sports and entertainment television network featuring the 26-time World Champion New York Yankees Major League Baseball team. The YES Network is available to viewers in New York, Connecticut, and parts of New Jersey and Pennsylvania. In addition to 130 Yankees games, YES broadcasts other professional and collegiate sports teams as well as classic sports footage. The YES schedule also includes original biography, interview, and magazine programs.
http://yesnetwork.com/images/global/header/yesnetwork.gif (http://yesnetwork.com/)

Paulwny
11-03-2005, 12:11 PM
another thing to consider is their NON baseball revenue aka ownership of the YES Network. The money being taken in by YES is staggering. The Yankees get $ 1.00 per month for every cable home in New York STATE, 2/3's of New Jersey and all of Connecticut. That is a lot of money. It dwarfs what the Red Sox can do in New England.


If you have cable in BUFFALO, part of your bill goes to Mr Steinbrenner

The YES Network launched on March 19, 2002 as a 24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week premier sports and entertainment television network featuring the 26-time World Champion New York Yankees Major League Baseball team. The YES Network is available to viewers in New York, Connecticut, and parts of New Jersey and Pennsylvania. In addition to 130 Yankees games, YES broadcasts other professional and collegiate sports teams as well as classic sports footage. The YES schedule also includes original biography, interview, and magazine programs.
http://yesnetwork.com/images/global/header/yesnetwork.gif (http://yesnetwork.com/)


Thanks, you had to remind me !!!!!!!!! :angry:
All suburban areas of Buffalo, including me, are forced to pay George because of the large number of yankmee fans in the area. Originally Adelphia wasn't going to carry YES then the outcry from yankmee fans and the threat of cable cancellation caused Adelphia to cave in.

The yankmees also drew > 4mill cutomers this year, George has plenty of $$$$.

Fenway
11-03-2005, 12:21 PM
Thanks, you had to remind me !!!!!!!!! :angry:
All suburban areas of Buffalo, including me, are forced to pay George because of the large number of yankmee fans in the area. Originally Adelphia wasn't going to carry YES then the outcry from yankmee fans and the threat of cable cancellation caused Adelphia to cave in.

The yankmees also drew > 4mill cutomers this year, George has plenty of $$$$.

This is insane. Buffalo is closer to


Toronto
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Detroit
and yet it is considered part of the Yankees and Mets HOME area. Next year the Mets will have a similar network in the same region.

Paulwny
11-03-2005, 12:39 PM
This is insane. Buffalo is closer to


Toronto
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Detroit
and yet it is considered part of the Yankees and Mets HOME area. Next year the Mets will have a similar network in the same region.


Yanks, #1 baseball team in the area, very little to no interest in the other teams you listed. There were a few Jay fans at one time but the number has decreased since the Jays' games are no longer televised. I doubt anyone will care if Adelphia doesn't pick-up the Mets.
Atlanta games are televised here, I haven't met a person who watches, that includes me. It's a yank/AL area.

Baby Fisk
11-03-2005, 12:41 PM
Theogate Day 4

Things haven't let up yet and the owner is in complete shock


http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox.bg

A trail of missteps (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/11/03/a_trail_of_missteps_in_epstein_talks)

A pained and regretful John W. Henry sat before a gathering of local and national media at Fenway Park yesterday and accepted complete responsibility for general manager Theo Epstein's stunning exit from the Red Sox, going so far as to question his own ability to operate as principal owner of the franchise. (Today's Globe)


BOB RYAN (http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/ryan/)
Getting in the last words (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/11/03/getting_in_the_last_words)

It wasn't the money. It wasn't burnout. It wasn't a feeling of fulfillment over winning the World Series. It wasn't Larry Lucchino. So why was Theo Epstein officially saying goodbye yesterday? (Today's Globe)






http://news.bostonherald.com/galleries/images/980157_front11032005.jpg(Thursday, November 3, 2005)


This is the most ridiculous hysteria. Boston and its fans and media must miss the simpler days of being perpetual losers. They seem to have come completely unhinged ever since.

Fenway
11-03-2005, 12:52 PM
This is the most ridiculous hysteria. Boston and its fans and media must miss the simpler days of being perpetual losers. They seem to have come completely unhinged ever since.

I agree that the hysteria borders on insanity

Palehose13
11-03-2005, 12:55 PM
This is the most ridiculous hysteria. Boston and its fans and media must miss the simpler days of being perpetual losers. They seem to have come completely unhinged ever since.

And it couldn't have come at a better time. IMO, there is NO WAY Konerko would want to play in Boston with the way the media is.

FoulkeFan
11-03-2005, 02:06 PM
A little rebuttal to all the "Epstein's a genius" talk coming from Boston.

http://thebrushback.com/clement_full.htm

WestSox
11-03-2005, 02:12 PM
IMO, there is NO WAY Konerko would want to play in Boston with the way the media is.

Isn't that one of the reasons that Manny wants out? IIRC, he was reportedly complaining about not being able to go anywhere without being mobbed.

Looks like Boston is turning into New York, where Maddux and Griffey refused to go because of the media.

Fenway
11-03-2005, 02:51 PM
A little rebuttal to all the "Epstein's a genius" talk coming from Boston.

http://thebrushback.com/clement_full.htm

The Cubs fleeced Theo on the Nomar deal by getting Matt Murton :whiner:

Fenway
11-03-2005, 04:11 PM
Bostondirtdogs.com keeps the flames going



http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/BDD_meet_the_red_sox.jpg

(BDD Illustration

Deuce
11-03-2005, 05:38 PM
The Cubs fleeced Theo on the Nomar deal by getting Matt Murton :whiner:

Boston traded sucky Nomar for sucky Murton... how is that a fleecing?

Deuce

whitesoxwilkes
11-03-2005, 06:21 PM
Yanks, #1 baseball team in the area, very little to no interest in the other teams you listed. There were a few Jay fans at one time but the number has decreased since the Jays' games are no longer televised. I doubt anyone will care if Adelphia doesn't pick-up the Mets.
Atlanta games are televised here, I haven't met a person who watches, that includes me. It's a yank/AL area.

The Jays had a HUGE following in Raa-chest-er when I was growing up there in the 1980s. So bad it drove me to become a Yankees fan.

Paulwny
11-03-2005, 07:28 PM
The Jays had a HUGE following in Raa-chest-er when I was growing up there in the 1980s. So bad it drove me to become a Yankees fan.

Yep, late 80's here many of the younger crowd wearing Jays' caps. It all died when CBC (?), an Adelphia channel stopped broadcasting games.

Fenway
11-04-2005, 09:09 AM
Finally things have quieted down. Some of you may be interested in this bizarre interview with the Red Sox principal owner John Henry on WEEI.

Red Sox Principle Owner John Henry - November 3rd (http://eod.liquidviewer.com/weei-od/Henry_BS_1103.wma)


the fans are not buying it

Whiner Line - November 3rd (http://eod.liquidviewer.com/weei-od/whinerline_1103.wma) (some funny stuff here )

I can't really explain why hysteria set in over the Theo situation. All I can figure is fans are heartbroken since they consider Theo the grandmaster that brought Boston the championship after so many decades. I suspect if KW left the White Sox in the same manner you would feel the same.

It is true that the majority of the 2004 club was put together by Dan Duquette but Theo put the final pieces together.


Meanwhile NESN and YES have brokered a deal which will allow NESN to be piped into upstate New York and YES into Western Massachusetts and Vermont. The rich get richer.

Fenway
11-04-2005, 09:45 AM
Boston traded sucky Nomar for sucky Murton... how is that a fleecing?

Deuce

Murton batted .321 , hit 7 HR's and 14 RBI's in a limited role for the Cubs. That is not sucky

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/7597/gamelog

Flight #24
11-04-2005, 10:22 AM
I can't really explain why hysteria set in over the Theo situation. All I can figure is fans are heartbroken since they consider Theo the grandmaster that brought Boston the championship after so many decades. I suspect if KW left the White Sox in the same manner you would feel the same.

It is true that the majority of the 2004 club was put together by Dan Duquette but Theo put the final pieces together.



Sports Guy had some interesting points that Theo had the A-Rod for Manny deal, Nomar for Maggs deal, Pavano signing, Contreras signing, & Beltre signing fall apart because of things out of his control. He also was responsible for signing Clement & Fatboy and not having much of a bullpen. Yes, he made some great deals, but he was also the only team able to make the Schilling one since the only other team able to pay Curt was the Spankees, and IIRC he didn't want to go there.

He deserves credit for getting it done, but the "genius" tag is a bit much, IMO - especially after only 3 years. What he does do by walking away now is make sure that his rep in beantown is intact regardless of how the team and farm does from here on out.

Compare that to KW, who also had his deals that fell apart (Garland-Erstad, Maggs-Nomar, Valentin-Garcia), but who hasn't really made any bad FA signings in a while and has a farm system in similar or better shape than the BoSox, and has the same # of titles albiet in a longer time and on a lower payroll.

Fenway
11-04-2005, 10:24 AM
oy

WEEI just broke a story that if true will really get the fans up in arms.

According to John Dennis who cites a Fenway source, Red Sox PR guru Charles Steinberg was upset that the Red Sox were off the sports page last week because of the return of Patriots player Tedy Bruschi and decided to try and milk the Theo story which in turn drove Theo away.

Nice going Dr. C

Tragg
11-04-2005, 10:48 AM
The Cubs fleeced Theo on the Nomar deal by getting Matt Murton :whiner:

That was Theo's best move. He knew that Nomar was a self-centered plague who hurt team defense, and did not belong on putative world championship team.

StillMissOzzie
11-04-2005, 09:58 PM
As for Theo, good for him. Now he can go somewhere and challenge himself by not having $125MM+ to spend. We'll see if he is the kid genius he has been made out to be.

Of course he's a genius. He just threw $850K to my nephew!

SMO
:gulp:

1951Campbell
11-04-2005, 10:44 PM
This is the most ridiculous hysteria. Boston and its fans and media must miss the simpler days of being perpetual losers. They seem to have come completely unhinged ever since.

You don't what it's like unless you've lived there. Negativity and the desire to tear people down is in New England's DNA and no amount of titles can scrub it out. This is, after all, the town that had more Lou Merloni fans during his playing days than Ted Williams fans during his playing days.

SouthSide_HitMen
11-06-2005, 06:23 PM
another thing to consider is their NON baseball revenue aka ownership of the YES Network. The money being taken in by YES is staggering. The Yankees get $ 1.00 per month for every cable home in New York STATE, 2/3's of New Jersey and all of Connecticut. That is a lot of money. It dwarfs what the Red Sox can do in New England.


If you have cable in BUFFALO, part of your bill goes to Mr Steinbrenner

The YES Network launched on March 19, 2002 as a 24-hour-a-day, 7-day-a-week premier sports and entertainment television network featuring the 26-time World Champion New York Yankees Major League Baseball team. The YES Network is available to viewers in New York, Connecticut, and parts of New Jersey and Pennsylvania. In addition to 130 Yankees games, YES broadcasts other professional and collegiate sports teams as well as classic sports footage. The YES schedule also includes original biography, interview, and magazine programs.
http://yesnetwork.com/images/global/header/yesnetwork.gif (http://yesnetwork.com/)

Do they get revenue for the Dish and Direct TV as well? I don't know if adding a third New York team (and or a second Boston Red Sox team) would help matters as it would divert some of the Yankee / Red Sox revenue. I know a new team would take a while to take hold but a lower price alternative (the TV you cannot solve unless there is revenue sharing for local TV which there should be as it takes to to play a ballgame) would siphon off some revenue and bring these two teams closer to the rest of the pack. Both cities supported this number of teams in the past and population as well as access to transportation for fans within 50 - 100 miles is greatly improved since the Braves, Giants and Dodgers moved. If you add a team in Brooklyn I think they would draw well but hurt the Mets the most - maybe New Jersey. I don't know how it would work in Boston.

I know Boston has a higher cost of living vs. Chicago (mostly housing though your ticket prices have become insane the past year or so - but brokers would get the difference so it makes more sense for the team to recover as much as possible - two teams in Boston would help keep the ticket price increases reasonable in the future). I know it is a pipedream because the Yankees, Mets and Red Sox would fight this to the death but it makes sense on an industrywide level.

You can bet on Theo's whereabouts for 2006 ($200 max):

http://www.bodog.com/sports-betting/mlb-baseball-player-props.jsp

Where will Theo be in 2006?

Out of baseball 5/6
Los Angeles Dodgers 1/1
Other team 9/2
Tampa Bay 7/1
Philadelphia 10/1

Fenway
11-07-2005, 11:20 AM
Do they get revenue for the Dish and Direct TV as well? I don't know if adding a third New York team (and or a second Boston Red Sox team) would help matters as it would divert some of the Yankee / Red Sox revenue.

Yup they get a piece of the home pizza dishes as well - More if the user is in the tri-state area of NYC.

New York is so big you could add a third team and split the market 3 ways and each team would still have a larger share than any other city. BTW don't forget that Boston territory also includes the Providence market which is the same size as Buffalo.

In any event SOMETHING has to be done or these teams will continue to keep driving the price up and up

maurice
11-07-2005, 04:28 PM
Murton batted .321 , hit 7 HR's and 14 RBI's in a limited role for the Cubs. That is not sucky.

Sure it is. First, 14 RBI in 140 ABs is not good. Second, the Cubs were desperate for OF all year and went through them like water, yet Murton only received 140 ABs. The guys who played OF for the Cubs while Murton sat reads like a "Who's Who" of the suckiest players in MLB. Third, Murton is 24 years old, yet he has little experience above AA. His minor-league track record (mostly playing against younger players in A-ball) demonstrates little power and little functional speed (only 24 HR and 34 SB in 266 minor-league games).

Murton's not even the best OF prospect in the crappy Cubs' organization.