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View Full Version : Sox pick up option on Cliff P., decline Crazy Carl. Frank exercises his option.


cheeses_h_rice
10-31-2005, 03:03 PM
Per WSCR.

So it could be buh-bye to Crazy Carl and Big Frank, if the Sox don't renegotiate. No big surprises there.

Good to see Politte's $1.2 million option exercised.

MUsoxfan
10-31-2005, 03:05 PM
I'm glad Cliff is coming back. I hope Everett won't have a new contract worked out, and I suspect that Frank will sign with the Sox for much less money

Iwritecode
10-31-2005, 03:05 PM
Per WSCR.

So it could be buh-bye to Crazy Carl and Big Frank, if the Sox don't renegotiate. No big surprises there.

Good to see Politte's $1.2 million option exercised.

Did Frank have a player option this year?

EDIT:
The White Sox also announced that designated hitter Frank Thomas has exercised the 2006 player option ($10 million) in his contract. Under terms of the contract, the White Sox have five days to exercise a buyout of Thomas' player option.

Press release from the official site. (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20051031&content_id=1262728&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

kruzer31
10-31-2005, 03:07 PM
Thomas exercised his option, the Sox did not pick up Carl Everetts contract for next year but they did pick up Cliff Polites option. Who will be our DH next year?

Soxzilla
10-31-2005, 03:08 PM
Frank Thomas.

Iwritecode
10-31-2005, 03:08 PM
Thomas exercised his option, the Sox did not pick up Carl Everetts contract for next year but they did pick up Cliff Polites option. Who will be our DH next year?

There's already a thread on this but to answer your question, I'm guessing:

:hurt

CHIsoxNation
10-31-2005, 03:09 PM
Thomas exercised his option, the Sox did not pick up Carl Everetts contract for next year but they did pick up Cliff Polites option. Who will be our DH next year?

Hopefully a healthy Thomas. I would love to see Thomas and Konerko hitting 3 & 4 for an entire year.

faneidde
10-31-2005, 03:10 PM
Anyone know the buyout on his contract? It didn't say on the MLB.com article.

antitwins13
10-31-2005, 03:10 PM
I too am glad to see Cliff Polite back for next year. He has been solid and is probably the most underrated set-up man in the league. As for CC I won't shed too many tears if him and that fishing cast swing of his leave. I just hope we keep Big Frank around. I want to see him end his career on a positive note with the Sox.

Iwritecode
10-31-2005, 03:11 PM
Anyone know the buyout on his contract? It didn't say on the MLB.com article.

3.5 million IIRC

OH!foracold1
10-31-2005, 03:12 PM
No doubt Cliff was a must. Glad to see CC gone. (Someone told me in the 3rd WS game intro that CC didn't slap OZ the 5, is that true?) I would love to see the Big Hurt DH next year and finish his career in Chicago.

asindc
10-31-2005, 03:13 PM
Really no surpise here. Now on to the incentive-laden deal...

antitwins13
10-31-2005, 03:13 PM
Joe Borchard:LTP

itsnotrequired
10-31-2005, 03:14 PM
Good to see Cliff back. $1.2 million is a good deal.

antitwins13
10-31-2005, 03:15 PM
No doubt Cliff was a must. Glad to see CC gone. (Someone told me in the 3rd WS game intro that CC didn't slap OZ the 5, is that true?) I would love to see the Big Hurt DH next year and finish his career in Chicago.

I'm not sure if that rumor is true, but it wouldn't suprise me. CC seemed bitter that the Oz man didn't put him in right field for one of the games in Houston.

The Dude
10-31-2005, 03:15 PM
Dinosaur boy HE GONE!!!! He will grab some much needed bench!:bandance:

itsnotrequired
10-31-2005, 03:18 PM
3.5 million IIRC

Sox have five days to buy him out.

Iguana775
10-31-2005, 03:20 PM
Sox have five days to buy him out.

I hope they dont. Even if he is limited, he should retire in a Sox uni.

itsnotrequired
10-31-2005, 03:22 PM
I hope they dont. Even if he is limited, he should retire in a Sox uni.

Tough call for the Sox here. Thomas made the right move and now the front office has only a few days to determine if Frank's Fragile Foot is worth a $6.5 million gamble.

My bet is the roll the dice and pass on the buyout.

cleanwsox
10-31-2005, 03:23 PM
I hope they dont. Even if he is limited, he should retire in a Sox uni.

Yah, well they will have to buy him out or he's on the books next season at 10 some million. There is no way the Sox will do that.

peeonwrigley
10-31-2005, 03:23 PM
IIRC, Frank's player option is for $10MM. If the Sox buy him out, it is for $3.5MM.

Common thought on this site I have seen is that he will be bought out and then probably re-signed for $3-5MM, thus saving the team money in the end.

soxfan26
10-31-2005, 03:24 PM
I hope they dont. Even if he is limited, he should retire in a Sox uni.

Even if the Sox buy him out the Big Hurt could return. The most likely scenario is the Sox buying him out and then offering him a new contract.

Madvora
10-31-2005, 03:25 PM
I love Cliffy. It's obvious that he should be back.
I think going another direction than Carl is a good idea, but I'm not really celebrating getting rid of anybody. This is a team that actually won us a World Series. I'm not looking at losing Carl like we're kicking him out the door. He played a part in our success this year. I thank him for that. Good luck Carl!

asindc
10-31-2005, 03:26 PM
They should buy him out for the 3.5 mil and re-sign him to an incentive laden deal with a 2 mil base, topping out at 5 mil if all incentives are reached, such as games played, ABs, days not on DL, HRs, RBI, weight, etc. The 3.5+5=8.5 mil max, more than he made this year.

dickallen15
10-31-2005, 03:28 PM
The Sox would have a lot of explaining to do if they didn't buy out Thomas and let Konerko walk. They obviously have to buyout Frank. Relying on him to be the full time DH next year would also be foolish. See if he will take what a bench player gets paid, plus incentives or let him go to Oakland.

Lip Man 1
10-31-2005, 03:31 PM
There is no rule saying that the Sox can't re-sign Carl for a lower price is there?

Given Frank's frankly questionable status, a guy like Carl, who drove in 86 runs, showed toughness and fire isn't a bad move. Unless you want to go out and make a deal for someone who may not be better then what you already have.

We'll see...

Lip

shoota II
10-31-2005, 03:32 PM
I love Cliffy. It's obvious that he should be back.
I think going another direction than Carl is a good idea, but I'm not really celebrating getting rid of anybody. This is a team that actually won us a World Series. I'm not looking at losing Carl like we're kicking him out the door. He played a part in our success this year. I thank him for that. Good luck Carl!

I agree. Everett was an important part of this World Champion White Sox. I appreciate all he has given to the team, and still think it's the best decision for the 2006 Sox to decline his option.

It's the best business decision, but it's hard to see him go.

Good luck to you Carl and thank you for your sacrifices.

TheOldRoman
10-31-2005, 03:38 PM
Dinosaur boy HE GONE!!!! He will grab some much needed bench!:bandance:
Another fairly intelligent comment by the Dude. Big thumbs up.

As for Carl, it was obvious that the Sox would decline their option on him. I hadn't heard anything about him refusing to high five Ozzie or anything like that. If it isn't true, I wouldn't be surprised to see him come back. Carl got a little upset about his playing time, but it is understandable. For the most part, he was a team player. We still need power off the bench, and we need someone who can step into the DH spot should Frank be out for an extended period of time. Frank will be back, but I don't think we can trust him to play 140 games at this point. He is going to need lots of rest. I don't think there will be that big of a market for Everett. The only teams I see being the least big interested in him are the Orioles, Rangers, and Angels. I wouldn't be surprised if Carl takes less money and a bench role to come back and win another world championship.

TheOldRoman
10-31-2005, 03:39 PM
There is no rule saying that the Sox can't re-sign Carl for a lower price is there?

Given Frank's frankly questionable status, a guy like Carl, who drove in 86 runs, showed toughness and fire isn't a bad move. Unless you want to go out and make a deal for someone who may not be better then what you already have.

We'll see...

Lip
You beat me to it. As I said, I wouldn't be at all shocked if Carl came back.

itsnotrequired
10-31-2005, 03:44 PM
Tough call for the Sox here. Thomas made the right move and now the front office has only a few days to determine if Frank's Fragile Foot is worth a $6.5 million gamble.

My bet is the roll the dice and pass on the buyout.

What was I thinking here? Add this to my other gaffs today and it appears as if my brain is fried. I need a nap or something...

Stroker Ace
10-31-2005, 03:48 PM
This isn't surprising. I think Carl won't return and Frank will work out a new deal to stay with the Sox. Very happy to see that Cliff is coming back.

house215
10-31-2005, 03:48 PM
I'm really torn on the whole Big Hurt situation. My heart tells me I want to see him back in a White Sox uniform next year but my head tells me he probably won't be able to play a full schedule with the White Sox next year due to his many nagging injuries. I'm glad I'm not Kenny Williams right now.

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 03:52 PM
You beat me to it. As I said, I wouldn't be at all shocked if Carl came back.

Really? I'd be very shocked. Carl Everett is a starting player, and if he's with the Sox next year, he'll only be starting part-time. Everyone knew they'd renegotiate with Frank, which meant Carl would be the odd man out. Carl's going to go somewhere he can play every day, which means almost anywhere.

Honestly, I'll miss him. He gave us some wonderful moments this year and quietly provided a steady presence in the lineup. I hope he catches on somewhere and does great against everyone but us next year.

So far no surprises this offseason. Frank had to take his option so that KW could buy him out, so that they could renegotiate an incentive-laden contract. This is all routine.

TheOldRoman
10-31-2005, 03:59 PM
Really? I'd be very shocked. Carl Everett is a starting player, and if he's with the Sox next year, he'll only be starting part-time. Everyone knew they'd renegotiate with Frank, which meant Carl would be the odd man out. Carl's going to go somewhere he can play every day, which means almost anywhere.

Honestly, I'll miss him. He gave us some wonderful moments this year and quietly provided a steady presence in the lineup. I hope he catches on somewhere and does great against everyone but us next year.

So far no surprises this offseason. Frank had to take his option so that KW could buy him out, so that they could renegotiate an incentive-laden contract. This is all routine.
Well, as I said in an earlier post, the only teams I see as possibly having the least bit of interest in Carl are:
Rangers - just because they are dumb enough to go after more hitting and stick with horrible pitching
Angels - they badly needed a DH with power last year
Orioles - they will probably finish being TB. They ARE that bad, but they still need a DH
TB - if the new GM is as stupid as Lamar, they will keep signing over the hill players that don't fit in with their future to getting playing time over kids who have a chance to be good

If none of those teams go hard after Carl, I wouldn't be surprised to see him come back. He loves it here, and he obviously loves winning. He has a lot of pride, and he feels like he should be a starter somewhere. That is great, but he has to realize not too many teams would be willing to sign him to be the full time DH. The Sox need a bench player with power who could back up Frank at DH next year. That is why I wouldn't be surprised to see him take less money and come back.

cheeses_h_rice
10-31-2005, 04:02 PM
Those of you expecting Frank to be back full-time as DH have a helluva lot more faith than I do that he will be healthy to even start the season, let alone remain healthy throughout. Which is why I'm not 100% convinced we haven't seen the last of Crazy Carl. Say what you will about him, but he stepped up big down the stretch of the season (those 2 games in a row with a triple) and batted .300 in the '05 postseason.

Chicken Dinner
10-31-2005, 04:06 PM
Everett........gone. Obtainable before the trade deadline if needed.


Thomas........will be back if healthy but at a much lower salary.


Konerko.........will be resigned.


Marte............gone.


Timo............gone


Borchard........Done with the Sox. Maybe KC material


Blum..........bye


El Duke........will try to be moved


Widger.........don't think he'll be back


Ozuna and Willie.........will battle it out again in the spring


Hermie.......very questionable


Everyone else is solid.

jdm2662
10-31-2005, 04:07 PM
No surprises here. I'd like to think Frank will be back FT, but it's highly doubtful. I hope so, but you never know. If Everett doesn't come back, I wish him the best and thanks for his contributions. I can't fault a guy who is not guarenteed a starting spot and goes somewhere to be a starter. There is a market for him, and the Angels wouldn't surprise me one bit. The most important thing right now is to sign Konerko. I did become a Brian Anderson fan, and would like to see him at least at the fourth outfielder next season. We will see what happens.

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 04:08 PM
Well, as I said in an earlier post, the only teams I see as possibly having the least bit of interest in Carl are:
Rangers - just because they are dumb enough to go after more hitting and stick with horrible pitching
Angels - they badly needed a DH with power last year
Orioles - they will probably finish being TB. They ARE that bad, but they still need a DH
TB - if the new GM is as stupid as Lamar, they will keep signing over the hill players that don't fit in with their future to getting playing time over kids who have a chance to be good

If none of those teams go hard after Carl, I wouldn't be surprised to see him come back. He loves it here, and he obviously loves winning. He has a lot of pride, and he feels like he should be a starter somewhere. That is great, but he has to realize not too many teams would be willing to sign him to be the full time DH. The Sox need a bench player with power who could back up Frank at DH next year. That is why I wouldn't be surprised to see him take less money and come back.

Point taken, but I think Carl is neither over the hill nor a full-time DH. He's 34 and still runs pretty well, and his outfield defense, while not steller, is certainly serviceable. I don't see him getting a multi-year deal, but with this year's thin free agent crop, I'm sure there will be teams with a hole in the outfield going after him as a 1-year stop-gap.

Believe me, I wouldn't mind seeing Carl back here at all. But we'll already have a full-time DH in Frank, plus plenty of fourth outfielders between Anderson and, should we need to dip down, Sweeney and Young. Carl would cost too much for the possibility of only playing once in a while. He can get twice the money and twice the playing time elsewhere.

Carl's staying isn't good for him and he knows it. If Frank is healthy, he won't get much playing time, and when he's a free agent again next year, his value will have diminished significantly. His value may never be higher than it is right now, and if he doesn't take anotehr shot at being a full time starter, he may never get that chance again. He'll go, and we'll all say a collective thank you for all he did for us.

ChiSoxlukes
10-31-2005, 04:11 PM
how much was Carl's option for???

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 04:14 PM
Marte............gone.
Widger.........don't think he'll be back
Ozuna and Willie.........will battle it out again in the spring

These are the only three I don't agree on. Nobody's going to take Marte off our hands witht he two years he has left on his contract. Marte will be back for better or worse. Pablo will definitely be back (even if Harris is back as well), and I think the odds are pretty decent on Widger.

Willie is another story. I know he said he wants to be back, but if he's back he has no chance at all of being a starter next season, and maybe not for the next few seasons either.

On the other hand, if he goes elsewhere, he has the opportunity to be starting second baseman. The job wouldn't be his right away, and he would probably have to battle for it in the spring, but he'd have a chance at least--something he won't have here.

34 Inch Stick
10-31-2005, 04:41 PM
Nobody's going to take Marte off our hands witht he two years he has left on his contract. Marte will be back for better or worse.
.

TAKE Marte off our hands? A left handed reliever with an ERA in the low 3's. Have you seen the crud floating around the major leagues disguised as left handed relievers?

Not only would many teams take him off the Sox hands, but they would get something nice in return.

soxfanreggie
10-31-2005, 04:53 PM
This doesn't have anything to do with the options declined or exercised, but it does have to do with a future contracts:I sure hope we re-sign Cotts. He has to love pitching close to his hometown. He will have a very nice piece of jewelry. We'll definitely have to increase his pay from the around $300,000 he made this season, but he is definitely worth it. He proved he is a very dominant lefty, and I love having an ISU Redbird on the Sox roster. :D:

As for Marte, I'll let the staff handle that one. However, I don't like how we're paying Timo $1 million to sit the bench like he does. Also, El Duque is not worth $4 million to us. With how well Brandon is doing and the other talent we could sign for a lot less, he isn't worth it. As for Widger, he might be back. He was a good back-up. I don't know how Ben Davis or Cassanova will be. But Duque's $4 mil could help pay for the raise we're giving Paulie when he resigns with us :smile: . Then, we take Timo's million and use it to sign a replacement and promote a reliever from our farm system. Also, I don't know if Viz will be back. Is he a FA this year?

Ol' No. 2
10-31-2005, 04:54 PM
I sure hope we re-sign Cotts. He has to love pitching close to his hometown. He will have a very nice piece of jewelry. We'll definitely have to increase his pay from the around $300,000 he made this season, but he is definitely worth it. He proved he is a very dominant lefty, and I love having an ISU Redbird on the Sox roster. :D:Cotts has only 2 yrs service time. He's not even arbitration-eligible yet.

Jjav829
10-31-2005, 04:55 PM
I sure hope we re-sign Cotts. He has to love pitching close to his hometown. He will have a very nice piece of jewelry. We'll definitely have to increase his pay from the around $300,000 he made this season, but he is definitely worth it. He proved he is a very dominant lefty, and I love having an ISU Redbird on the Sox roster. :D:

Don't worry, Cotts isn't going anywhere. He's not even arbitration eligible yet, much less a free agent. Cotts will be around here for a while unless someone offers KW a trade involving Cotts that is too good to pass up.

ilsox7
10-31-2005, 04:55 PM
I sure hope we re-sign Cotts. He has to love pitching close to his hometown. He will have a very nice piece of jewelry. We'll definitely have to increase his pay from the around $300,000 he made this season, but he is definitely worth it. He proved he is a very dominant lefty, and I love having an ISU Redbird on the Sox roster. :D:

Cotts is White Sox property for a very long time in that he will not be a free agent for several years. He ain't going anywhere and will probably be in the starting rotation or a closer a couple of years down the line.

mjmcend
10-31-2005, 04:56 PM
how much was Carl's option for???

$5 million and we had to pay a $500,000 dollar buyout.

soxfanreggie
10-31-2005, 04:57 PM
I know Cotts isn't up for arbitration, I was just hoping that he stays around a long time. He is a very nice guy; I can't wait to see what the Redbirds have planned to honor him. I have heard it will be nice.

bafiarocks03
10-31-2005, 05:03 PM
yay Cliff! :D: :(: Carl! i want Carl back!

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 05:18 PM
TAKE Marte off our hands? A left handed reliever with an ERA in the low 3's. Have you seen the crud floating around the major leagues disguised as left handed relievers?

Not only would many teams take him off the Sox hands, but they would get something nice in return.

Fair enough (although his ERA was actually 3.77--but I'm nitpicky).

I'm not certain we would get something nice in return, but I think you're right that him being a lefty makes him attractive enough that a team would take on his contract.

So if Hermy, Cotts, Jenks and Politte are locked down and McCarthy will be starting (as he should be), that leaves two slots. Vizcaino could be moved, but he did so well in the second half and he's so cheap I don't see the wisdom in moving him. That leaves El Duque and Marte. One of them will go (unless we carry 12 pitchers), so you try and move one with as much of their salary as you can shrug off.

Ol' No. 2
10-31-2005, 05:26 PM
Fair enough (although his ERA was actually 3.77--but I'm nitpicky).

I'm not certain we would get something nice in return, but I think you're right that him being a lefty makes him attractive enough that a team would take on his contract.

So if Hermy, Cotts, Jenks and Politte are locked down and McCarthy will be starting (as he should be), that leaves two slots. Vizcaino could be moved, but he did so well in the second half and he's so cheap I don't see the wisdom in moving him. That leaves El Duque and Marte. One of them will go (unless we carry 12 pitchers), so you try and move one with as much of their salary as you can shrug off.I don't think Kenny and Ozzie have confidence in Marte any longer. I look for them to trade him, but I also expect them to try and get another LH reliever.

longshot7
10-31-2005, 05:30 PM
yay Cliff! :D: :(: Carl! i want Carl back!

Bafia, what will you do if Willie leaves?

I think he's ready to be a starter but I'm not sure it will happen here....

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 05:48 PM
I don't think Kenny and Ozzie have confidence in Marte any longer. I look for them to trade him, but I also expect them to try and get another LH reliever.

Ol' No. 2,

First off, I really enjoy your posts.

Secondly, if they deal Marte for another lefty reliever, that still gives us an extra guy in the pen (El Duque, Jenks, Cotts, Politte, Hermy, Vizcaino, mysterious lefty reliever).

So, assuming we only want 11 pitchers (which I think everyone does), what do you do? Obviously KW wants to deal The Duke and his whole salary if he can (not likely), but there's nobody on that list I'd particularly like to send down to Charlotte. Do you try to deal one of them in addition to Marte? Or do you try and deal Marte for a minor leaguer and hope the other team takes on his full salary?

Unregistered
10-31-2005, 05:52 PM
As for CC I won't shed too many tears if him and that fishing cast swing of his leave...

Glad to see CC gone.

Dinosaur boy HE GONE!!!! He will grab some much needed bench!:bandance:

Carl's hot hitting in the beginning of the year carried the Sox offense and won several games for us in the process. Remember the 23 hits, 20 rbi in 23 games in April? The man is an rbi machine and was a big part of the Sox getting the start that they needed to win. He didn't set the world on fire in the playoffs, but he was part of the team that won 99 games in the regular season and won the first World Series in 88 years for our White Sox. For that, he deserves our respect.

Before you start celebrating the departure of "Crazy Carl," think about who else we're going to have to replace the 23 home runs and 87 RBI, especially if Frank isn't ready to play a full season. Now think about Joe Borchard or Timo Perez as our DH if Carl wasn't around in '05.

GAsoxfan
10-31-2005, 05:53 PM
I don't think Kenny and Ozzie have confidence in Marte any longer. I look for them to trade him, but I also expect them to try and get another LH reliever.

Maybe try to package El Duque and Marte. Then sign Eyre from SF(I think he's a free agent) to give the Sox another lefty in the pen.

As for Everett, I'm glad to see him go. A .250 average with 20+ homeruns in 490 at bats shouldn't be hard to replace. I think Anderson could more than duplicate those numbers.

GAsoxfan
10-31-2005, 05:59 PM
I'm not certain we would get something nice in return, but I think you're right that him being a lefty makes him attractive enough that a team would take on his contract.


I think the Sox could get something good in return for Marte. A decent/good lefty reliever can always get something good.

Ol' No. 2
10-31-2005, 06:10 PM
Maybe try to package El Duque and Marte. Then sign Eyre from SF(I think he's a free agent) to give the Sox another lefty in the pen.

As for Everett, I'm glad to see him go. A .250 average with 20+ homeruns in 490 at bats shouldn't be hard to replace. I think Anderson could more than duplicate those numbers.Not a lot of good LH relievers out there. Eyre looked good, but he had a career year at the age of 33. Not a good sign he's going to able to repeat it.

DickAllen72
10-31-2005, 06:38 PM
Thomas exercised his option, the Sox did not pick up Carl Everetts contract for next year but they did pick up Cliff Polites option. Who will be our DH next year?
Hideki Matsui. :gulp:

DickAllen72
10-31-2005, 06:44 PM
Carl's hot hitting in the beginning of the year carried the Sox offense and won several games for us in the process. Remember the 23 hits, 20 rbi in 23 games in April? The man is an rbi machine and was a big part of the Sox getting the start that they needed to win. He didn't set the world on fire in the playoffs, but he was part of the team that won 99 games in the regular season and won the first World Series in 88 years for our White Sox. For that, he deserves our respect.

Before you start celebrating the departure of "Crazy Carl," think about who else we're going to have to replace the 23 home runs and 87 RBI, especially if Frank isn't ready to play a full season. Now think about Joe Borchard or Timo Perez as our DH if Carl wasn't around in '05.

Carl hit pretty well in the playoffs too.

Carl was also a big part of the team's chemistry and will be missed......unless they resign him for a couple million bucks.

Frank may never play again, and if he does, he's another injury waiting to happen. The best thing the Sox can do is sign Matsui to DH and play some OF to replace Carl. After winning the World Series, this is the time to spend some bucks and add to the team, not subtract.

JohnBasedowYoda
10-31-2005, 06:51 PM
love the 'dream politte' glad he'll be around. Hopefully he's the '05 model and not the '04 model. stay healthy cliffy. don't worry i'm sure sometime in june kw will do something to get carl on the team.....

Daver
10-31-2005, 06:52 PM
This may be based on the old CBA, I don't have time to check the new one, but in the past, A declined option was the equivilent of a non tender, and therefore teams lost negioating rights till May.

TheOldRoman
10-31-2005, 07:05 PM
Carl's hot hitting in the beginning of the year carried the Sox offense and won several games for us in the process. Remember the 23 hits, 20 rbi in 23 games in April? The man is an rbi machine and was a big part of the Sox getting the start that they needed to win. He didn't set the world on fire in the playoffs, but he was part of the team that won 99 games in the regular season and won the first World Series in 88 years for our White Sox. For that, he deserves our respect.

Before you start celebrating the departure of "Crazy Carl," think about who else we're going to have to replace the 23 home runs and 87 RBI, especially if Frank isn't ready to play a full season. Now think about Joe Borchard or Timo Perez as our DH if Carl wasn't around in '05.
Well, there is no place for logic like that in this thread.

ShoelessJoeS
10-31-2005, 08:09 PM
Carl's hot hitting in the beginning of the year carried the Sox offense and won several games for us in the process. Remember the 23 hits, 20 rbi in 23 games in April? The man is an rbi machine and was a big part of the Sox getting the start that they needed to win. He didn't set the world on fire in the playoffs, but he was part of the team that won 99 games in the regular season and won the first World Series in 88 years for our White Sox. For that, he deserves our respect.

Before you start celebrating the departure of "Crazy Carl," think about who else we're going to have to replace the 23 home runs and 87 RBI, especially if Frank isn't ready to play a full season. Now think about Joe Borchard or Timo Perez as our DH if Carl wasn't around in '05.
Can't agree more here. He and any other member of the 2005 World Champion Chicago White Sox will forever have my respect. His passion will be missed in the clubhouse no doubt about it. As a replacement, however, if Frank's not ready, how about Brian Anderson instead of JB or TP?

rmusacch
10-31-2005, 08:23 PM
Tough call for the Sox here. Thomas made the right move and now the front office has only a few days to determine if Frank's Fragile Foot is worth a $6.5 million gamble.

My bet is the roll the dice and pass on the buyout.

They will buy him out and then try to sign him to a lower contract.

DickAllen72
10-31-2005, 08:57 PM
Can't agree more here. He and any other member of the 2005 World Champion Chicago White Sox will forever have my respect. His passion will be missed in the clubhouse no doubt about it. As a replacement, however, if Frank's not ready, how about Brian Anderson instead of JB or TP?

Or, they can sign Furcal, move Uribe to 2B and let Iguchi DH and bat third.

Ozzie said he wants to move Iguchi down to the middle of the order this year, so he would need another top of the order type hitter for the #2 slot. A lineup of Pods, Furcal, Iguchi, Konerko, Dye, Pierzynski, Rowand, Crede, Uribe would be dynamite with speed and power, and the infield defense would be even better than it was this year.

bigfoot
10-31-2005, 09:01 PM
Fair enough (although his ERA was actually 3.77--but I'm nitpicky).

I'm not certain we would get something nice in return, but I think you're right that him being a lefty makes him attractive enough that a team would take on his contract.

So if Hermy, Cotts, Jenks and Politte are locked down and McCarthy will be starting (as he should be), that leaves two slots. Vizcaino could be moved, but he did so well in the second half and he's so cheap I don't see the wisdom in moving him. That leaves El Duque and Marte. One of them will go (unless we carry 12 pitchers), so you try and move one with as much of their salary as you can shrug off.

Before we jettison Marte, perhaps we should wait to see if Hermy is damaged goods(back) that may require surgery. IMO many starting staffs that pitch well into October have a hard time the following year at the same level. Though Duque will be owed $4mil+, can the other starters on the staff + Mac all be counted on to repeat their great preformances? Without all the pieces, where will Kenny find a suitable replacement? Jose Mesa or others, if Hermy can't go? At what $?

Flight #24
10-31-2005, 09:01 PM
You beat me to it. As I said, I wouldn't be at all shocked if Carl came back.

I would for a couple of reasons:
- They need to cut money to resign Paulie or add other players
- They have Brian Anderson who they think is a budding star and ready
- They have Joe Borchard, who rebounded from a horrible start and is out of options
- They have Frank Thomas, who while unreliable from an injury perspective, should be back at least part-time in '06
- They would probably prefer to get a better bat at DH if they're going to spend $5-7MM

I would be fairly surprised unless Carl comes pretty cheap. I can easily see an Anderson/Borchard (or Dye/Pods with Anderson in the OF) duo at DH until Frank comes back. Or Griffey.

Gavin
10-31-2005, 09:09 PM
As I understand, they will give Frank $3 million, set him loose, and then hope to resign him for < $6.5 million, correct?

Nyls Nyman
10-31-2005, 09:26 PM
I would for a couple of reasons:
- They need to cut money to resign Paulie or add other players
- They have Brian Anderson who they think is a budding star and ready
- They have Joe Borchard, who rebounded from a horrible start and is out of options
- They have Frank Thomas, who while unreliable from an injury perspective, should be back at least part-time in '06
- They would probably prefer to get a better bat at DH if they're going to spend $5-7MM

I would be fairly surprised unless Carl comes pretty cheap. I can easily see an Anderson/Borchard (or Dye/Pods with Anderson in the OF) duo at DH until Frank comes back. Or Griffey.

- Anderson will take Timo's spot on the roster.
- Borchard will be traded. Period.
- Frank will be back for one more season at about $6M (including the $3.5m buyout), and will announce early in the year that this is his last season.
- Carl may come back if he can't find a starting spot, but if he likes Chicago then he's just as likely to go across town and take over RF there for more money.

gobears1987
10-31-2005, 09:27 PM
- Anderson will take Timo's spot on the roster.
- Borchard will be traded. Period.
- Frank will be back for one more season at about $6M (including the $3.5m buyout), and will announce early in the year that this is his last season.
- Carl may come back if he can't find a starting spot, but if he likes Chicago then he's just as likely to go across town and take over RF there for more money. No way, Frank will play 2 more years to ensure he gets 500

petekat
10-31-2005, 09:32 PM
yeah thanks Carl for your contributions....smart hitter, declining skills... but played a big part in our season....


I love Cliffy. It's obvious that he should be back.
I think going another direction than Carl is a good idea, but I'm not really celebrating getting rid of anybody. This is a team that actually won us a World Series. I'm not looking at losing Carl like we're kicking him out the door. He played a part in our success this year. I thank him for that. Good luck Carl!

ferdinandshen
10-31-2005, 09:33 PM
Why isn't AJ a free agent? I tried to search for the answer but turned unsuccessfully. I remember AJ was only signed thru 2005. Shoot me if this is a dumb question...

chez742002
10-31-2005, 09:40 PM
There is no way we will resign Everett, even though I like his intensity and the way he stressed "TEAM". I know he makes some weird comments and can be a little irritating, but I have always liked him because he isn't afraid of anyone, he stands close to the plate, he can hit when he has 2 strikes on him and he personifies "CLUTCH"!!

I do think we sill resign Frank because of the way he handled himself and the fact that he is going for 500 HR's. Frank does not want to leave. I bet the Sox could offer him 1 million a year for 2 or 3 years plus huge incentives. I bet he would take that to stay here. This would also help the Sox cut a lot of salary, so we could resign Paulie.

If the Sox do not resign Paulie, I think they might take a run at trading for Jim Thome, but they would want some cash thrown in. Philadelphia has Ryan Howard and he is more than ready and had a great year in 2005, so Thome will not be wanted in Philly. Delgado would also be a possibility, but I wonder if he has a "no trade clause" because he just signed last year. I would also look at Lyle Overbay because he is a great hitter. I just don't know if he has enough power. But, it is possible that Overbay has more power than he has shown because David Ortiz was not a power hitter when he was with Minnesota, early in his career. Ortiz's teammates in Minnesota gave him the nickname of "Juan Pierre" because of his lack of HRs. They were amazed that his power numbers were so low, for a guy that was so big and strong. I know Overbay is not as big and strong as Ortiz (I will never call him Big P*pi because it is so annoying), but he still seems to hit the ball hard and he always has a lot of doubles. I don't know for sure, but I think Miller Park is a tough park to hit HRs in, so he could have much better power numbers if he played at the Cell, than what he has shown in Milwaukee, but Who Knows?

I do want all the Sox back and I do not care if we keep Marte because I am still in heaven with the title. Marte choked a lot and I wanted him cut all year, but he did do a little good in Game 3 of the series. If not, they can definitely get something for him because a lefty that throws in the mid 90s is worth gold in the Majors. When I think about it, we probably should trade him for payroll reasons. He does make a lot of money for his output. But the Sox need to get another lefty in free agency if he is traded.

One thing that angers me is when these supposed "baseball minds" like Tim "I hate anything American League" McCarver, Jeff "The worst analyst of all time" Brantley, Kevin "Porn Star" Kennedy, Harold " John Kruk whoops my A$$" Reynolds or Steve "I destroyed the Mets Organization" Phillips (used to despise Phillips , but he came along later in the year because he was pr oven wrong about the champs) continue to say that the White Sox will have to trade one of their starting pitchers so they can resign Konerko!! Do these guys have any clue about baseball??? Well NO!! I knew that and so did all of you, but come on! Why do they HAVE TO TRADE a STARTER? They don't because Paulie already was making 9 million a year, it is only a 3 or 4 million a year raise, Frank's contract is going to be a lot less, Everett's contract will be a lot less and Marte might be gone. Also, Hermanson might have to retire and they might be able to trade El Duque. If all or any of these things happen, there will be no need to trade a starter and they still will be able to resign Garland and maybe Buehrle to another 4 yr extension. These ESPN and FOX baseball analysts, need to know what they are talking about before they speak. They make it seem like the White Sox team payroll is 35 million, Paul Konerko makes 3 million a year, attendance for the year was 1 million and the White Sox are a small market club and stupid. Signing Konerko should not affect the White Sox that much, but if Kenny Williams feels they could get 2 players that are very good and fit well, instead of just Paulie, then I trust Kenny.:gulp: White Sox fans have no reason not to trust the White Sox administration anymore because they have brought us the HOLY GRAIL and the organization's outlook is brighter than ever!!:redface: :smile:

PS There is only 1 that reason the Sox will not resign Carl Everett. NO! It is not because the White Sox and their fans don't think he is worth it. NO! It is not because we are not appreciative of him and it is not because he makes too much money and he is too old and not worth it anymore. The only reason is: YES!! Kenny Williams needs to be able to trade for someone at the Trading Deadline on July 31, 2006. And every Sox fan knows that he has been worth, each and every one of those prospects!!! And there is no teal in any part of that sentence!!!

2005 Chicago White Sox- Power... HURTS:o: but
Speed... KILLS:angry:
World Series Champions!!! World Champs!!! The Dream becomes Reality!!!

Daver
10-31-2005, 09:40 PM
Why isn't AJ a free agent? I tried to search for the answer but turned unsuccessfully. I remember AJ was only signed thru 2005. Shoot me if this is a dumb question...

He is arbritration eligible.

gobears1987
10-31-2005, 09:48 PM
Carl fans shouldn't be worried. We all know KW will trade for him.

Brian26
10-31-2005, 09:49 PM
Carl's hot hitting in the beginning of the year carried the Sox offense and won several games for us in the process. Remember the 23 hits, 20 rbi in 23 games in April? The man is an rbi machine and was a big part of the Sox getting the start that they needed to win. He didn't set the world on fire in the playoffs, but he was part of the team that won 99 games in the regular season and won the first World Series in 88 years for our White Sox. For that, he deserves our respect.

Before you start celebrating the departure of "Crazy Carl," think about who else we're going to have to replace the 23 home runs and 87 RBI, especially if Frank isn't ready to play a full season. Now think about Joe Borchard or Timo Perez as our DH if Carl wasn't around in '05.

Count me as another guy who appreciates what Everett did in 2005. He had a bunch of huge hits both early in the season and late in the season. Who could forget those two triples in back-to-back games in Detroit? The guy did everything that was asked of him and provided veteran leadership. Now might be the best time to let him go, but he deserves credit for playing a big role on this team in '05.

RKMeibalane
10-31-2005, 09:54 PM
Count me as another guy who appreciates what Everett did in 2005. He had a bunch of huge hits both early in the season and late in the season. Who could forget those two triples in back-to-back games in Detroit? The guy did everything that was asked of him and provided veteran leadership. Now might be the best time to let him go, but he deserves credit for playing a big role on this team in '05.

Agreed. I will always have a great deal of respect for Everett because of what he brought to this team, not only this season, but in '03 and '04, as well. He has been a big part of what the Sox were trying to accomplish for several season, and his efforts to help the Sox win the World Series should not be overlooked by anyone.

Ol' No. 2
10-31-2005, 10:02 PM
Count me as another guy who appreciates what Everett did in 2005. He had a bunch of huge hits both early in the season and late in the season. Who could forget those two triples in back-to-back games in Detroit? The guy did everything that was asked of him and provided veteran leadership. Now might be the best time to let him go, but he deserves credit for playing a big role on this team in '05.For much of the year, Carl was a ridiculously easy out. He finished the regular season hitting .251, with a .745 OPS. 87 RBI sounds great, but for a guy who hit 3rd most of the season, it's pretty mediocre. No one's trying to dis Carl. He carried the team early and had a decent post-season. (Only 3 RBI in post-season though.:(: Tied with Rowand for fewest among regulars.) But a DH has one job - hitting, and you'd better be getting more out of your DH than what Carl has produced. IMO, that's the place most in need of improvement.

SoxSpeed22
10-31-2005, 10:08 PM
Or, they can sign Furcal, move Uribe to 2B and let Iguchi DH and bat third.They both have rocket arms, but I'd prefer to have Uribe at short and Furcal at 2nd. I would like to see Furcal on this team for another base swiping threat that's not Pods. I liked Iguchi's glove, but if he can bat with more selfishness, he can be more of a chaperone rather than "taking one for the team."

bafiarocks03
10-31-2005, 10:55 PM
Bafia, what will you do if Willie leaves?

I think he's ready to be a starter but I'm not sure it will happen here....

What would I do!! I have no idea what i would do!! I know KW would be getting letters....That reminds me i have to write him a letter..oh yea..anyway..yea We dont' think about stuff like that! Cuz willie's gonna stay here...OH maybe we can ship Tadahito a slow boat..somewhwere and willie can start!!!!

Jjav829
10-31-2005, 11:14 PM
Count me as another guy who appreciates what Everett did in 2005. He had a bunch of huge hits both early in the season and late in the season. Who could forget those two triples in back-to-back games in Detroit? The guy did everything that was asked of him and provided veteran leadership. Now might be the best time to let him go, but he deserves credit for playing a big role on this team in '05.

IMO Everett is kind of like Jose Valentin. I appreciate the intensity he brought and his willingness to give everything he had for the team. But his skills are clearly declining and it's time to part. We can do a lot better at the DH position.

Lip Man 1
10-31-2005, 11:32 PM
No. 2:

I'm not disagreeing with you but who else is out there for the Sox to get? Unfortunately you have to have some insurance now for Frank and to pick up a big bat (assuming Konerko is re-signed) then you have to trade. That means giving up something and to get a Helton you are going to have to give up a lot aren't you?

87 RBI's for 3.3 million dollars sounds like a bargin to me.

Lip

Realist
10-31-2005, 11:35 PM
There is no way we will resign Everett, even though I like his intensity and the way he stressed "TEAM". I know he makes some weird comments and can be a little irritating, but I have always liked him because he isn't afraid of anyone, he stands close to the plate, he can hit when he has 2 strikes on him and he personifies "CLUTCH"!!

I do think we sill resign Frank because of the way he handled himself and the fact that he is going for 500 HR's. Frank does not want to leave. I bet the Sox could offer him 1 million a year for 2 or 3 years plus huge incentives. I bet he would take that to stay here. This would also help the Sox cut a lot of salary, so we could resign Paulie.

If the Sox do not resign Paulie, I think they might take a run at trading for Jim Thome, but they would want some cash thrown in. Philadelphia has Ryan Howard and he is more than ready and had a great year in 2005, so Thome will not be wanted in Philly. Delgado would also be a possibility, but I wonder if he has a "no trade clause" because he just signed last year. I would also look at Lyle Overbay because he is a great hitter. I just don't know if he has enough power. But, it is possible that Overbay has more power than he has shown because David Ortiz was not a power hitter when he was with Minnesota, early in his career. Ortiz's teammates in Minnesota gave him the nickname of "Juan Pierre" because of his lack of HRs. They were amazed that his power numbers were so low, for a guy that was so big and strong. I know Overbay is not as big and strong as Ortiz (I will never call him Big P*pi because it is so annoying), but he still seems to hit the ball hard and he always has a lot of doubles. I don't know for sure, but I think Miller Park is a tough park to hit HRs in, so he could have much better power numbers if he played at the Cell, than what he has shown in Milwaukee, but Who Knows?

I do want all the Sox back and I do not care if we keep Marte because I am still in heaven with the title. Marte choked a lot and I wanted him cut all year, but he did do a little good in Game 3 of the series. If not, they can definitely get something for him because a lefty that throws in the mid 90s is worth gold in the Majors. When I think about it, we probably should trade him for payroll reasons. He does make a lot of money for his output. But the Sox need to get another lefty in free agency if he is traded.

One thing that angers me is when these supposed "baseball minds" like Tim "I hate anything American League" McCarver, Jeff "The worst analyst of all time" Brantley, Kevin "Porn Star" Kennedy, Harold " John Kruk whoops my A$$" Reynolds or Steve "I destroyed the Mets Organization" Phillips (used to despise Phillips , but he came along later in the year because he was pr oven wrong about the champs) continue to say that the White Sox will have to trade one of their starting pitchers so they can resign Konerko!! Do these guys have any clue about baseball??? Well NO!! I knew that and so did all of you, but come on! Why do they HAVE TO TRADE a STARTER? They don't because Paulie already was making 9 million a year, it is only a 3 or 4 million a year raise, Frank's contract is going to be a lot less, Everett's contract will be a lot less and Marte might be gone. Also, Hermanson might have to retire and they might be able to trade El Duque. If all or any of these things happen, there will be no need to trade a starter and they still will be able to resign Garland and maybe Buehrle to another 4 yr extension. These ESPN and FOX baseball analysts, need to know what they are talking about before they speak. They make it seem like the White Sox team payroll is 35 million, Paul Konerko makes 3 million a year, attendance for the year was 1 million and the White Sox are a small market club and stupid. Signing Konerko should not affect the White Sox that much, but if Kenny Williams feels they could get 2 players that are very good and fit well, instead of just Paulie, then I trust Kenny.:gulp: White Sox fans have no reason not to trust the White Sox administration anymore because they have brought us the HOLY GRAIL and the organization's outlook is brighter than ever!!:redface: :smile:

PS There is only 1 that reason the Sox will not resign Carl Everett. NO! It is not because the White Sox and their fans don't think he is worth it. NO! It is not because we are not appreciative of him and it is not because he makes too much money and he is too old and not worth it anymore. The only reason is: YES!! Kenny Williams needs to be able to trade for someone at the Trading Deadline on July 31, 2006. And every Sox fan knows that he has been worth, each and every one of those prospects!!! And there is no teal in any part of that sentence!!!

2005 Chicago White Sox- Power... HURTS:o: but
Speed... KILLS:angry:
World Series Champions!!! World Champs!!! The Dream becomes Reality!!!



This post makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. :smile: Good stuff.

A. Cavatica
10-31-2005, 11:39 PM
The Sox aren't signing Furcal, that's just ridiculous. Uribe cemented his job with his playoff performance, and Iguchi is not moving from second.

Of course the Sox will buy out Frank and try to negotiate a new deal. PK and Frank will both get fair offers to come back, but KW will not overspend. The Sox need a top lefthanded bat, and the departure of either PK or Frank will allow KW to pursue one.

Everett's not ready to be a bench player, but that's all he deserves to be now. If he gets no other offers, I'm sure the Sox would welcome him back as a $1.5 M reserve.

The two players likeliest to be involved in a major trade are Rowand and Marte. Rowand didn't have his best year with the bat, but he's still a relatively cheap two-way CF, and the Sox need to open a spot for Anderson. Marte is a relatively cheap hard-throwing lefthanded reliever, but I expect the Sox to let someone win this job in spring training.

kitekrazy
11-01-2005, 01:08 AM
I would for a couple of reasons:
- They need to cut money to resign Paulie or add other players
- They have Brian Anderson who they think is a budding star and ready
- They have Joe Borchard, who rebounded from a horrible start and is out of options
- They have Frank Thomas, who while unreliable from an injury perspective, should be back at least part-time in '06
- They would probably prefer to get a better bat at DH if they're going to spend $5-7MM

I would be fairly surprised unless Carl comes pretty cheap. I can easily see an Anderson/Borchard (or Dye/Pods with Anderson in the OF) duo at DH until Frank comes back. Or Griffey.

We know what Carl can do. There are no guarantees on that list.

graham5
11-01-2005, 07:47 AM
The Sox do need to trade starting pitching, but not to pay for Konerko - they need to trade an SP to make room for super Brandon!

The_Floridian
11-01-2005, 09:08 AM
The Sox do need to trade starting pitching, but not to pay for Konerko - they need to trade an SP to make room for super Brandon!

You don't need to trade a starter to make room for McCarthy. You just move El Duque to the pen, which is what everyone expects to happen anyway. Trading any of our other starters would be ridiculous.

soxfanatlanta
11-01-2005, 09:20 AM
You don't need to trade a starter to make room for McCarthy. You just move El Duque to the pen, which is what everyone expects to happen anyway. Trading any of our other starters would be ridiculous.

+1

Keep the pitching/bullpen as intact as possible untill the All Star Break. Then make the move (if needed). I really want Paulie to come back next year, but you cannot mortgage your pitching on one bat.

The Wall
11-01-2005, 09:25 AM
I would not trade any of the 6 super starters that we have. If, seems like in all likelihood, Hermanson is done, then Jenks moves to closing and El Duque takes over setup/emergency closer when Jenks struggles. McCarthy moves into 5th starter spot at the beginning of the season. If he faces any problems or hits a wall, then put him long relief and let Coop work on him and move El Duque back to starting for a short time.

As for offense, if Paulie goes elsewhere, we can move Iguchi from that #2 spot to a 4-5-6 spot where he can hit and not have Ozzie take his bat away. I'm sure Iguchi can hit .280/30/100 there. Package Rowand and minor leaguers for some bullpen help.

Also, look for another basestealing threat like Carl Crawford or Juan Pierre or Luis Castillo. Crawford might be the easiest to get because of all the non-attention to the Rays and the ownership flux happening down there...and never underestimate the power of the secret weapon Willsy.

Anderson has looked ready for a month or so now. All he needs is ABs to get used to the game at this level. I'm sure everyday role in spring training will accomplish that.

LF - Crawford
CF - Podsednik
RF - Dye
C - AJ
1B - Paulie
2B - Iguchi
3B - Crede
DH - Thomas/Anderson
SS - Uribe

SP - Buerhle, Contreras, Garcia, Garland, McCarthy
Pen - Cotts, Polite, Jenks, El Duque, <Replacements for Viscaino and Marte>

Bench - Timo, Anderson, Harris, Blum, <Player from Rowand deal>

Sounds enough to me.

kevin57
11-01-2005, 09:38 AM
Glad Politte will be back.

Glad Everett will be gone.

Sox are smart in putting Frank on hold for a while...at least until they can check out that foot. If there's hope he can contribute in the future, then, of course, sign him and be generous while you're at it. However, if sadly, he won't be able to be effective at the plate, then it's time for FT to recognize it and move on.

Tragg
11-01-2005, 09:48 AM
I would not trade any of the 6 super starters that we have. If, seems like in all likelihood, Hermanson is done, then Jenks moves to closing and El Duque takes over setup/emergency closer when Jenks struggles. McCarthy moves into 5th starter spot at the beginning of the season. If he faces any problems or hits a wall, then put him long relief and let Coop work on him and move El Duque back to starting for a short time.

As for offense, if Paulie goes elsewhere, we can move Iguchi from that #2 spot to a 4-5-6 spot where he can hit and not have Ozzie take his bat away. I'm sure Iguchi can hit .280/30/100 there. Package Rowand and minor leaguers for some bullpen help.

Also, look for another basestealing threat like Carl Crawford or Juan Pierre or Luis Castillo. Crawford might be the easiest to get because of all the non-attention to the Rays and the ownership flux happening down there...and never underestimate the power of the secret weapon Willsy.

Anderson has looked ready for a month or so now. All he needs is ABs to get used to the game at this level. I'm sure everyday role in spring training will accomplish that.

LF - Crawford
CF - Podsednik
RF - Dye
C - AJ
1B - Paulie
2B - Iguchi
3B - Crede
DH - Thomas/Anderson
SS - Uribe

SP - Buerhle, Contreras, Garcia, Garland, McCarthy
Pen - Cotts, Polite, Jenks, El Duque, <Replacements for Viscaino and Marte>

Bench - Timo, Anderson, Harris, Blum, <Player from Rowand deal>

Sounds enough to me.
We take a big hit defensively with Podsednik in Center.
Hopefully we can upgrade the bench.
Rowand and minor leaguers for middle relievers is overpaying. Marte isn't that bad, if he can just stop walking people. I have no problem with Viz at the end of the pen; probably the best (or close to it) end of the pen pitcher in the majors.
We do need to make some changes, just to keep the team fresh. Rowand seems the obvious choice, I guess.

Jjav829
11-01-2005, 09:50 AM
Also, look for another basestealing threat like Carl Crawford or Juan Pierre or Luis Castillo. Crawford might be the easiest to get because of all the non-attention to the Rays and the ownership flux happening down there...and never underestimate the power of the secret weapon Willsy.

Anderson has looked ready for a month or so now. All he needs is ABs to get used to the game at this level. I'm sure everyday role in spring training will accomplish that.


Carl Crawford isn't going anywhere. Aubrey Huff if possible, but Crawford will be staying put.

MsSoxVixen22
11-01-2005, 10:17 AM
I'm not surprised Crazy Carl may be on the way out. I'm not thrilled to see him go (he did come up with some crucial hits to help this team win the WS) but it's his time to move on-and he's not getting any younger. I'd like to see Frank healthy for 2006 but who know if he's gonna be resigned. I really hope they resign Paulie thought. They'd be stupid to let him go

Ol' No. 2
11-01-2005, 10:37 AM
No. 2:

I'm not disagreeing with you but who else is out there for the Sox to get? Unfortunately you have to have some insurance now for Frank and to pick up a big bat (assuming Konerko is re-signed) then you have to trade. That means giving up something and to get a Helton you are going to have to give up a lot aren't you?

87 RBI's for 3.3 million dollars sounds like a bargin to me.

LipI haven't really looked around at what might be available at DH. It's still pretty early. Not much on the FA market, so a trade may be necessary. I agree that they need insurance for Frank. It doesn't need to be a superstar, but I don't think it will be that hard to improve on Everett's production. They're likely to bump payroll by some amount as yet unknown. That should be a priority area.

A few possibilities:

Moises Alou
Cliff Floyd
Hideki Matsui (big $$$)
Jay Gibbons
Shawn Green

Mohoney
11-01-2005, 11:47 AM
I don't think Kenny and Ozzie have confidence in Marte any longer. I look for them to trade him, but I also expect them to try and get another LH reliever.

I think that Game 3 alone earns him a chance to at least compete for a job here. He got 5 of the biggest outs in the history of the franchise, and I've got to hope that he can use this as a springboard to get his confidence back.

DenverSock
11-01-2005, 12:10 PM
I haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating what other people have already said. We need Politte, in fact we need as many of the starting and bullpen pitchers back as possible. One, we need the stability of keeping the pitching staff as intact as poossible. Perhaps Marte and Vizcaina can go. Marte needs his head shrunk. Maybe we can get something for them, I don't know. Two, Carl Evert going is not a shock. He should be replaceable. Third, I do think that Frank is gone for good. I don't think that he's going to come back from this injury. Let me make this clear. I think that's a bad thing. I wish he could come back. The major question is going to be how much can we afford in the FA market given that we need to re-sign Paul Konerko?

Lip Man 1
11-01-2005, 12:35 PM
For what it's worth both Luke Stuckmeyer on Comcast Sports Tonight last night and the Sun-Times today say the Sox can renegotiate with Everett and bring him back at a lower price.

Lip

Iwritecode
11-01-2005, 12:47 PM
What would I do!! I have no idea what i would do!! I know KW would be getting letters....That reminds me i have to write him a letter..oh yea..anyway..yea We dont' think about stuff like that! Cuz willie's gonna stay here...OH maybe we can ship Tadahito a slow boat..somewhwere and willie can start!!!!

It's like watching a stream of consciousness float by on the screen...

:)

kitekrazy
11-01-2005, 05:13 PM
I can understand the talk of trades among this group? Some of it is quite ridiculous. I guess many of you feel the Sox over achieved. Didn't the playoffs put that to rest.

Um...let me see what it was the got them there.....oh yeah...pitching and defense. When are you die hard station to station White Sox fans going to get a clue.

What's wrong with keeping the team as it is and see if they win it again?

mrwag
11-01-2005, 05:18 PM
I can understand the talk of trades among this group? Some of it is quite ridiculous. I guess many of you feel the Sox over achieved. Didn't the playoffs put that to rest.

Um...let me see what it was the got them there.....oh yeah...pitching and defense. When are you die hard station to station White Sox fans going to get a clue.

What's wrong with keeping the team as it is and see if they win it again?
Very well put. Why mess with success?

Flight #24
11-01-2005, 05:35 PM
We know what Carl can do. There are no guarantees on that list.

The guarantee is that you need to reuse Carl's $4.5 to pay Konerko, Garland, AJ, Crede unless you get that much more in payroll bump.

Frater Perdurabo
11-01-2005, 05:39 PM
:tomatoaward:

Jjav829
11-01-2005, 05:55 PM
I can understand the talk of trades among this group? Some of it is quite ridiculous. I guess many of you feel the Sox over achieved. Didn't the playoffs put that to rest.

Um...let me see what it was the got them there.....oh yeah...pitching and defense. When are you die hard station to station White Sox fans going to get a clue.

What's wrong with keeping the team as it is and see if they win it again?

Because if you can get better, you get better. You don't sit there and say, "We won it. No need to do anything else." Keep in mind other teams aren't sitting still. They're going to be out there doing whatever possible to try to improve their teams to beat the Sox.

Besides, you really think it's going to hurt our chances next year if we let Everett walk and bring in a better DH? Or if we trade Marte and bring in a better lefty?

DenverSock
11-01-2005, 06:05 PM
Because if you can get better, you get better. You don't sit there and say, "We won it. No need to do anything else." Keep in mind other teams aren't sitting still. They're going to be out there doing whatever possible to try to improve their teams to beat the Sox.

Besides, you really think it's going to hurt our chances next year if we let Everett walk and bring in a better DH? Or if we trade Marte and bring in a better lefty?

You get the Homer Simpson "Doh!" award, not for what you said, but for it needing to be said.:cool:

kitekrazy
11-01-2005, 06:36 PM
The guarantee is that you need to reuse Carl's $4.5 to pay Konerko, Garland, AJ, Crede unless you get that much more in payroll bump.

When a team wins a World Series, there should be a payroll bump just as long as it isn't insane. Who said anything about keeping Carl at 4.5M?

gobears1987
11-01-2005, 06:38 PM
Carl is being replaced by Frank, it is as simple as that.

BTW, have the Sox exercised the buyout yet? I doubt JR would pay the 10 mm. My guess is they re-sign him to an inventive deal.

kitekrazy
11-01-2005, 06:46 PM
Because if you can get better, you get better. You don't sit there and say, "We won it. No need to do anything else." Keep in mind other teams aren't sitting still. They're going to be out there doing whatever possible to try to improve their teams to beat the Sox.


Like the 2004 Cubs? 2005 Red Sox?

Why do the Sox need to do anything? They may already have another decent starter (McCarthy) and a good long reliever (El Duce).

Read most of the posts and try to convince me that some of these are a little over board. (trade a starter, Pods in center)

I think what to do next relies on whether Konerko will be on the team.

kitekrazy
11-01-2005, 06:57 PM
Besides, you really think it's going to hurt our chances next year if we let Everett walk and bring in a better DH? Or if we trade Marte and bring in a better lefty?

It depends on what you will get for Marte? Don't believe for one minute any GM doesn't see what we do. Those Loaiza for Contreras trades don't happen a lot.

If the Sox need to improve themselves most likely they need bench help.

Yes, it could hurht the Sox chances next year if they let Everette walk. What if Thomas can't play? Who's available and what will you pay? How far is the payroll already stretched? I guess Timo could DH.

kitekrazy
11-01-2005, 07:01 PM
Carl is being replaced by Frank, it is as simple as that.

BTW, have the Sox exercised the buyout yet? I doubt JR would pay the 10 mm. My guess is they re-sign him to an inventive deal.

Yes, but who replaces Frank if he goes on the DL again? What makes you think Frank will agree to a deal with the Sox?

Of course the Sox are going to buy out Frank.

Planning on Frank being the DH is like the Bears always banking on Grossman.

Jjav829
11-01-2005, 08:04 PM
Like the 2004 Cubs? 2005 Red Sox?

Why do the Sox need to do anything? They may already have another decent starter (McCarthy) and a good long reliever (El Duce).

Read most of the posts and try to convince me that some of these are a little over board. (trade a starter, Pods in center)

I think what to do next relies on whether Konerko will be on the team.

You're missing the point. It's not that the Sox need to do anything. If we brought the same team back next year we would still have a good chance at making the playoffs and possibly winning the World Series again. It's what can we do to make the team even better. In sports, you always have to be looking to improve, not simply be content with what you have. 29 other teams in baseball are looking for ways to beat the White Sox. 29 other teams want to improve their team for next year. Yet you want the Sox to sit still and just hope everything falls into place again?

Let's face it, we got some luck this year. That's not a bad thing. That's not an insult to the Sox or meant to diminish what we did this year. Every single championship team gets lucky. Championship teams have to have players stay healthy, perform at high levels, etc. We got those breaks this year. Other teams didn't. Other teams suffered injuries that cost them a chance at the World Series. Other teams had players they were relying on have down years, also hurting their chances. We didn't have that. Our only significant injury was Frank and we were never really relying on him. We didn't have anyone perform significantly lower than expected.

Not every year will go like 2005. A starter might blow out his arm or break his foot. We might have someone go into a Konerko-2003 type slump. We might have position players blow our their knees or tear hamstrings. The point is that every season is unpredictable. You don't simply bring back the same team and assume they will perform the same as the previous year. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. We certainly hope for the former but the latter is also possible. So you have to improve your team in any way possible to put the team in the best possible position to sustain those injuries or down years.