PDA

View Full Version : El Duque for the Bullpen in 2006 campaign


chisoxfanatic
10-30-2005, 09:12 PM
With McCarthy looking like he'll hit the starting rotation, and with El Duque's ballsy performance at Fenway a few weeks ago, I want El Duque to stay here and pitch for our bullpen. He could actually take Vizcaino's spot, as El Duque is the essence of being a gamer.

NonetheLoaiza
10-30-2005, 09:14 PM
I was wondering this myself, actually. However, I don't think that El Duque would be too happy with coming out of the bullpen. Not to mention, it takes him a good inning to get warmed up. I just don't really see him coming back for the bullpen.

ATXBMX
10-30-2005, 09:15 PM
I agree that McCarthy should be in the rotation, but El Duque would be a pricy middle reliever.

kykygruber
10-30-2005, 09:15 PM
He would be a great addition to the bullpen

chisoxfanatic
10-30-2005, 09:17 PM
I agree that McCarthy should be in the rotation, but El Duque would be a pricy middle reliever.

He could go 2-3 innings, giving the starter an extra inning "off" every once in a while (every few starts, I'd say) while building a great bridge to Cotts and Politte.

SOXintheBURGH
10-30-2005, 09:20 PM
He could go 2-3 innings, giving the starter an extra inning "off" every once in a while (every few starts, I'd say) while building a great bridge to Cotts and Politte.

:burly
"I go deep."

Lorenzo Barcelo
10-30-2005, 09:22 PM
Bmac has to be the starter! He won us some huge games for us down the stretch, but I have a feeling Orlando would be a little reluctant to go to the pen. Hopefully he realized is 39 year old body is catching up to him, and that the pen would e a good fit for him. Also, a 4.5 mil dollar middle reliever is something you dont see everday.

Ol' No. 2
10-30-2005, 09:27 PM
I was wondering this myself, actually. However, I don't think that El Duque would be too happy with coming out of the bullpen. Not to mention, it takes him a good inning to get warmed up. I just don't really see him coming back for the bullpen.I think Hernandez may have to face the reality that he can't start 25-30 games anymore. He's just got too many miles on that arm. And I don't see another team trading for him to be a starter.

gf2020
10-30-2005, 09:30 PM
I've thought about this possibility as well. Having six starters would be a great thing given how we haven't had more than four until recently. It guards against injury, which is really the only thing that could slow our staff.

However, Hernandez is due 4.5 mil next year, which is a lot for a long reliever and how tight things will be if the Konerko market explodes. If we could trade the Duke to an NL team who would take more than half of his deal, we might have to do it financially.

Besides the money involved, we would also have to clear a spot in the bullpen. Does anyone know if Vizcaino has any minor league options left?

If it's a choice between the Viz and the Duke, I would like to keep Orlando.

slobes
10-30-2005, 09:32 PM
McCarthy is definitely good enough to be a starter on this team. In my opinion, he proved himself at the end of the year. El Duque would be a pretty expensive reliever though.

Soxzilla
10-30-2005, 09:41 PM
I don't understand the hate on Viz. The guy was absolute nails for pretty much all of the second half. I know it hurts to only have one left hander in the pen, but if anyone should go, it's Marte.

However, I want to keep El Duque around, because apparently his presence is very comforting to Contreras...

I say stick him in the pen.

Lorenzo Barcelo
10-30-2005, 09:44 PM
If you take away the third game of the season, Vizzy's stats are pretty solid. He posted a 2.60 era after the break. Not to shabby IMO

knocko94
10-30-2005, 09:54 PM
I would try to trade Duque to a team desperate for some SPs. Most teams need a starter. I'm not sure I trust his arm holding up in the bullpen, where we may need him multiple times a week. If Ozzie can use him somewhat gingerly, and maybe if there are 12 pitchers on the staff, then he could perhaps hold it together for a season.

Chips
10-30-2005, 10:10 PM
I don't understand the hate on Viz. The guy was absolute nails for pretty much all of the second half. I know it hurts to only have one left hander in the pen, but if anyone should go, it's Marte.

However, I want to keep El Duque around, because apparently his presence is very comforting to Contreras...

I say stick him in the pen.

I don't understand the hate on Viz either, he was ****ing awesome after the first weeks of the season, minus the extra inning KC game where he came and got the loss. I think Viz is solid reliever and would like to see him stay here. If McCarthy does get that 5th spot, which I think he will, Hernandez will either go to bullpen or be traded. If he goes to the bullpen, I would rather see Hermanson go. I know that Hermanson came in and became the next Mr. Zero for us, but he is going to need surgery. El Duque will need surgery too, I think one of them is the odd man out. I think Marte can get back to his 2003 stuff next year, if he doesn't, then we can can him.

However, I think El Duque will be traded.

1951Campbell
10-30-2005, 10:14 PM
I was wondering this myself, actually. However, I don't think that El Duque would be too happy with coming out of the bullpen. Not to mention, it takes him a good inning to get warmed up. I just don't really see him coming back for the bullpen.

Someone needs to sit him down and tell him "you've got great stuff, you're clutch, it's just that we suspect you're really 47 years old. That's okay, because you can help this team get back to the World Series if you pitch 1-3 innings a couple times a week. We'll pay you fairly, and if that's not what you want, well, enjoy the Devil Rays. But we'd love to have you back."

I think deep, deep down El Duque knows that the above is true.

antitwins13
10-30-2005, 10:15 PM
Someone needs to sit him down and tell him "you've got great stuff, you're clutch, it's just that we suspect you're really 47 years old. That's okay, because you can help this team get back to the World Series if you pitch 1-3 innings a couple times a week. We'll pay you fairly, and if that's not what you want, well, enjoy the Devil Rays. But we'd love to have you back."

I think deep, deep down El Duque knows that the above is true.


Yeah, pretty much.

cwsfannick
10-30-2005, 10:18 PM
I see KW putting El Duque out there at the winter meeting as trade bait for prospects. Considering the pitching problems that the Yanks and Red Sox have had this season look for them to be players.

I have to believe that BMac will be successful in the 5th spot. To a greater extent the Sox need to take advantage of a young arm as well as a player that will come on the cheap to offset the money the organization will have to pony up for Konerko, Garland and A.J.

DumpJerry
10-30-2005, 10:34 PM
With McCarthy looking like he'll hit the starting rotation, and with El Duque's ballsy performance at Fenway a few weeks ago, I want El Duque to stay here and pitch for our bullpen. He could actually take Vizcaino's spot, as El Duque is the essence of being a gamer.
I've been saying the same thing. He also mentored Contreras during the season turning him into Mr. Big Game.

However, some of my friends think Contreras will get traded, especially if Paulie leaves. The logic behind this is that while Jose was lights out in the second half, the first half was more his nature and we should trade him while his stock is high. I think the starters we had this year will be back next year. Duque will move to the Bullpen for long relief and spot starting during long stretches without off days and McCarthy will move into the rotation and win ROY with a 18-7 record, 3.23 ERA.

Jjav829
10-30-2005, 11:24 PM
I'd shop El Duque if I was KW - and boy don't I wish I was - just to see if anyone will give up anything to get him. I don't expect there to be much of a market for El Duque. He probably wouldn't bring us anything of significance. We might see a situation where Kenny has to trade El Duque to save that $4.5 million if Konerko is re-signed.

It wouldn't be a bad thing to keep El Duque around. He'd be a nice 6th starter for insurance if any starter is injured. However, his role would be fairly minimal. With Jenks, Hermanson and Politte in place, El Duque would be the 4th righty out of the pen. I don't think we need to keep El Duque. If clearing his $4.5 from the payroll helps us sign Konerko or some other impact bat, then KW should trade him.

MadetoOrta
10-30-2005, 11:27 PM
BMac is a stud. He'll be in the rotation. Maybe we can package El Duque's $4.5 + Marte's $1.5 [I believe] and Rowands $3.5 {I think that's the number] to Florida for Carlos Delgado. Delgado's $13.5 million - $9.5 = $4 million for Carlos Delgado's bat. Just a thought.

Banix12
10-30-2005, 11:38 PM
Depth is always a good thing and often you need at least one extra starter going through the season. I'd love to keep him even at his salary.

I think Kenny will leave it up to El Duque. If he wants to start, Kenny will probably try to accomodate him. If he is traded I don't expect it to happen until very, very late in spring training. You never know if some pitcher will have a fluke injury or a pitching problem.

As for anybody pushing packaging El Duque, Marte, and Rowand together in a trade. I still think everybody is overestimating the trade value of these three guys, even when you combine them. The Marlins can get better guys for Delgado and would be more apt to want Major League ready Sox prospects like Brian Anderson before getting these three guys.

The_Floridian
10-31-2005, 07:23 AM
I'd shop El Duque if I was KW - and boy don't I wish I was - just to see if anyone will give up anything to get him. I don't expect there to be much of a market for El Duque. He probably wouldn't bring us anything of significance. We might see a situation where Kenny has to trade El Duque to save that $4.5 million if Konerko is re-signed.

It wouldn't be a bad thing to keep El Duque around. He'd be a nice 6th starter for insurance if any starter is injured. However, his role would be fairly minimal. With Jenks, Hermanson and Politte in place, El Duque would be the 4th righty out of the pen. I don't think we need to keep El Duque. If clearing his $4.5 from the payroll helps us sign Konerko or some other impact bat, then KW should trade him.

We need 6 pitchers for our bullpen.

Jenks, Politte and Cotts are all certain to come back. Vizcaino was awesome in the second half, so expect him back too. That's 4.

Marte is locked into a contract for 2 more years, and after the season he just had no one is going to take him in a trade. He's not going anywhere and we need to just accept that and hope he's better next year, which i think he will be. That makes 5.

Obviously McCarthy will be a starter. This is not even an issue.

That leaves Hermanson and El Duque. Here's what I think happens...

Hermanson walks regardless. He's getting on in years and his back is a question. If they are serious about letting Jenks close, he's not really a necessity. Plus, even if Jenks has problems, Cotts and Politte are both capable of closing. Hermy is the odd man out. I like him, but I'll be stunned if he suits up for us next year.

As for El Duque, here's my guess. KW will shop him around and try and pick up a long relief man. If it works, that's our sixth bullpen pitcher. If he is only able to pick up some low minor leaguers for him, the long-relief spot becomes open for competition in Spring Training between several people (Adkins, Munoz, a non-roster invitee, etc.). And if he is completely unable to move him, El Duque is your long relief man. I think that last one is the most likely scenario because I don't think anyone will trade for El Duque.

So the bullpen next year would be:

El Duque--Long Relief/spot starter if needed
Marte--Middle Relief
Vizcaino--Middle Relif
Cotts--LH Set-up
Politte--RH Set-up
Jenks--Closer

That's my guess anyway.

WestSox
10-31-2005, 08:16 AM
Someone needs to sit him down and tell him "you've got great stuff, you're clutch, it's just that we suspect you're really 47 years old. That's okay, because you can help this team get back to the World Series if you pitch 1-3 innings a couple times a week. We'll pay you fairly, and if that's not what you want, well, enjoy the Devil Rays. But we'd love to have you back."

I think deep, deep down El Duque knows that the above is true.

Well said. That pretty much sums up my feelings.

Flight #24
10-31-2005, 08:29 AM
Big ? on Duque is his ability to pitch 1-3 innings 2-3 times/week. I'm not a doctor, but I would think that would put significant strain on his shoulder even though the total IP would be less than as a starter (less rest between outings). Correct me if anyone knows better about the biology of pitching.

Plus, it'll depend on whether he's willing to do that or really wants to start. IMO KW will call him in, ask him if he wants to move to the 'pen or if he'd prefer to be dealt somewhere where he can start, then he'll work towards doing what Duque wants. KW's too classy a guy and too respectful of what Duque's accomplished to do it any other way.

veeter
10-31-2005, 08:42 AM
So what if El Duke is an expensive reliever. McCarthy is a totally cheap starter. With Hernandez around, he would get an opportunity to start. Someone could get injured. Having him in the pen would be great.

34 Inch Stick
10-31-2005, 09:15 AM
Am I the only one who thinks is would be a mistake to just give McCarthy the 5th starter spot. I want El Duque on the Sox in spring training if only to push McCarthy. If El Duque has a nice spring, I have no doubt a pitching poor possible contender would be thrilled to trade for him as a 5th starter. El Duque still has that playoff magic and he did nothing to diminish it this year. Just as the Sox did last year, some team will want him for a playoff run.

WestSox
10-31-2005, 09:25 AM
Am I the only one who thinks is would be a mistake to just give McCarthy the 5th starter spot. I want El Duque on the Sox in spring training if only to push McCarthy. If El Duque has a nice spring, I have no doubt a pitching poor possible contender would be thrilled to trade for him as a 5th starter. El Duque still has that playoff magic and he did nothing to diminish it this year. Just as the Sox did last year, some team will want him for a playoff run.

I think BMac would have to earn it, but I wouldn't necessarily be in favor of putting a $4.5 million guy with a bad shoulder in the rotation. IMO, his arm doesn't have the strength to pitch 200 innings next year (maybe not 150 innings). If McCarthy doesn't pitch well enough to be in the rotation, I'd rather see a #5-by-committee approach.

Tragg
10-31-2005, 09:33 AM
Viz pitched perfectly well for the last man in the pen, just like Garland's pre 2005 performance was acceptable for a 5th starter. He's fine for this team.

El D, whom I really like, makes too much money for middle relief, although I suppose we could do it for a year.

I'd look to move one of the career year guys, like Politte.

the gooch
10-31-2005, 09:38 AM
if people are concerned about el duque's long warmups, why not take advantage of his big-game mentality and put him in the closer spot. he knows he is coming in in the 9th (usually), and there is little doubt he is capable after seeing how he did in the playoffs.
i love bubba, but i dont want people to turn on him if guys start turning on that fastball- which is a little too straight for my liking- if the curve isnt going for strikes.

knocko94
10-31-2005, 09:53 AM
Hermanson will not be going anywhere. He signed a 2 year deal with an option, and his back will keep teams away from trading for him.