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doctorlecter
10-30-2005, 05:21 PM
I hope that Fox took a total bath on the Series this year. I'm sure that the sweep helped. I just really, really want to punch Joe Buck in the face. I hope that this year keeps Fox from bidding on it again, although I'm sure those douchebags at Bristol would get it and send their finest, washed up, ignorant, useless play-by-play man to cover it. I'll take that over the combined ineptitude of Buck and McCarver.

antitwins13
10-30-2005, 05:24 PM
You make a good point. I'm also glad the ratings sucked. I won't cry any tears over their lost revenue. As for them losing the world series to another station, I'm not sure any other announcing team is going to be much better. Not ESPN with Berman or NBC with Costas would be much of a consolation prize.

SouthSideHitman
10-30-2005, 05:35 PM
Are you kidding me? I mean, Bermen was terrible, obviously no one wants to see him behind the mic for another Sox game (or any baseball game at all, for that matter) but why the hate on Costas? I loved hearing him call the Series back in the late 90s, I think that he's one of the best minds in sports today and would LOVE to have him doing baseball again.

antitwins13
10-30-2005, 05:39 PM
Are you kidding me? I mean, Bermen was terrible, obviously no one wants to see him behind the mic for another Sox game (or any baseball game at all, for that matter) but why the hate on Costas? I loved hearing him call the Series back in the late 90s, I think that he's one of the best minds in sports today and would LOVE to have him doing baseball again.

Costas would be an upgrade from Berman, but I see him as being on the same plain as Buck. I would rather see Jon Miller and Joe Morgan do the broadcast if I had to choose a pair of national broadcasters.

jabrch
10-30-2005, 05:41 PM
I hope that Fox took a total bath on the Series this year. I'm sure that the sweep helped. I just really, really want to punch Joe Buck in the face. I hope that this year keeps Fox from bidding on it again, although I'm sure those douchebags at Bristol would get it and send their finest, washed up, ignorant, useless play-by-play man to cover it. I'll take that over the combined ineptitude of Buck and McCarver.

Yeah, that's great for the health of the game...

The health of the game largely depends on the funds from the TV contracts that somewhat balance out the inequities of the revenue models. Less national money just tilts the balance more towards the Yanks and the Red Sox. You go cheer for that.

antitwins13
10-30-2005, 05:45 PM
Yeah, that's great for the health of the game...

The health of the game largely depends on the funds from the TV contracts that somewhat balance out the inequities of the revenue models. Less national money just tilts the balance more towards the Yanks and the Red Sox. You go cheer for that.

explain how the "revenue models" work exactly. Do the White Sox get any money from those broadcasts?

SoxFan76
10-30-2005, 06:06 PM
Maybe Fox will realize how much they suck and start actually PROMOTING the teams that play in the World Series/playoffs that aren't the Yankees or Red Sox!

It's not the Sox fault or the Astros fault, it's Fox for not promoting their product. They were too busy crying because the Yankees and Red Sox were at home.

chaerulez
10-30-2005, 07:06 PM
I hope that Fox took a total bath on the Series this year. I'm sure that the sweep helped. I just really, really want to punch Joe Buck in the face. I hope that this year keeps Fox from bidding on it again, although I'm sure those douchebags at Bristol would get it and send their finest, washed up, ignorant, useless play-by-play man to cover it. I'll take that over the combined ineptitude of Buck and McCarver.

MLB would not let the World Series be covered by a cable company that would be business sucide. Even the NBA, a mostly cable league now, still has the conference and NBA finals on ABC.

lths06
10-30-2005, 07:13 PM
Only guy worse than Joe Buck, Chris Berman!

http://re2.mm-a1.yimg.com/image/304135944 (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062857/K=chris+berman+all+star+game/v=2/SID=e/TID=I060_75/l=II/R=1/SS=i/OID=7dc96dd9c39c4226/SIG=1km1g3knt/EXP=1130803901/*-http%3A//images.search.yahoo.com/search/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fs earch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dchris%2Bberman%2Ball%2Bstar%2 Bgame%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3DFP-tab-img-t%26fl%3D0%26x%3Dwrt&h=85&w=113&imgcurl=espn-att.starwave.com%2Fmedia%2***b%2F2001%2F0710%2Fpho to%2F010710berman1a.jpg&imgurl=espn-att.starwave.com%2Fmedia%2***b%2F2001%2F0710%2Fpho to%2F010710berman1a.jpg&size=3.8kB&name=010710berman1a.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fespn.go.com%2***b%2Fallstar01%2 Fs%2F2001%2F0710%2F1224718.html&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fespn.go.com%2***b%2Fallstar01%2F s%2F2001%2F0710%2F1224718.html&p=chris+berman+all+star+game&type=jpeg&no=1&tt=2&ei=UTF-8)

"You can put it on the BOARDDDDDDDDDDDDD...GONE!


Please no ESPN:dunno:

batmanZoSo
10-30-2005, 07:17 PM
Are you kidding me? I mean, Bermen was terrible, obviously no one wants to see him behind the mic for another Sox game (or any baseball game at all, for that matter) but why the hate on Costas? I loved hearing him call the Series back in the late 90s, I think that he's one of the best minds in sports today and would LOVE to have him doing baseball again.

I miss NBC covering the World Series, I thought they did a much better job than Fox does. And I love Bob Costas, I don't care what anyone says. To me he's a great play-by-play guy and he's got a knack for words, he really takes it to another level with the dramatics. Buck just doesn't get into it enough for my tastes. Way too bland.

VA_GoGoSox
10-30-2005, 07:38 PM
I miss NBC covering the World Series, I thought they did a much better job than Fox does. And I love Bob Costas, I don't care what anyone says. To me he's a great play-by-play guy and he's got a knack for words, he really takes it to another level with the dramatics. Buck just doesn't get into it enough for my tastes. Way too bland.

I couldn't have said it better. Costas is outstanding for championships and dramatics. I couldn't imagine someone being better than him for the olympics.

As for Fox--Buck and McCarver were bad, but the director really blew it with all the facial close-up shots. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to see where the catcher was setting up/what the runners were doing/where the fielders were playing, and all I could see was a close-up of Ozzie or Garner or Contreras picking his nose etc...

Not to mention all the times we came back from a commercial in the middle of the first pitch or even after the first pitch.

I know they are trying to play up the dramatics, but it's already dramatic enough. I don't need to see the pores on Bobby Jenks' face--I need to see where AJ is setting up for the heater.

batmanZoSo
10-30-2005, 07:50 PM
I couldn't have said it better. Costas is outstanding for championships and dramatics. I couldn't imagine someone being better than him for the olympics.

As for Fox--Buck and McCarver were bad, but the director really blew it with all the facial close-up shots. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to see where the catcher was setting up/what the runners were doing/where the fielders were playing, and all I could see was a close-up of Ozzie or Garner or Contreras picking his nose etc...

Not to mention all the times we came back from a commercial in the middle of the first pitch or even after the first pitch.

I know they are trying to play up the dramatics, but it's already dramatic enough. I don't need to see the pores on Bobby Jenks' face--I need to see where AJ is setting up for the heater.

Yeah, they went overboard with the closeups--and with the wrong players. Much to my chagrin, I have Ezekiel Astacio's pock marks memorized for life. *shudders*

Overall, the camera work was poor. I was ticked off at the crappy job they did when we got the final out. Immediately after Konerko caught the ball, they switched feeds and went in really close on some other players, then started jumping around with the feed a lot. You really couldn't get a good feel for what was going on. They should've followed Konerko to the mound and gotten the entire mob for at least a few seconds before maybe switching to feeds of Ozzie and the rest of the dugout and/or the outfielders sprinting to the celebration. I really wish Fox would just get out of sports all together stick to what they do best--low-brow sitcom programming.

MrRoboto83
10-30-2005, 08:08 PM
If ESPN did the series it would be Jon Miller and Joe Morgan, which is better than Joe Buck and Tim McCarver. Espn would have better camera work than Fox, that was proven during the ALDS.

StockdaleForVeep
10-30-2005, 08:16 PM
This was also low ratings because it was a 4 game sweep, this game was lower than the anahiem\san fran series but that went 7. But game 4 had the highest fox ratings since the american idol final

batmanZoSo
10-30-2005, 08:33 PM
If ESPN did the series it would be Jon Miller and Joe Morgan, which is better than Joe Buck and Tim McCarver. Espn would have better camera work than Fox, that was proven during the ALDS.

ESPN does do a good job with camera work and their picture is superior in general. Similar to how WGN's is superior to WCIU's if you get my drift. I'm not even talking about HD either. Fox's picture to me is just kind of lifeless and doesn't seem geared for sporting events. Not that I profess knowledge of the TV business, but I knows what I sees. Of course with ESPN, you get by far the worst announcing of the three in question because of their undying agenda to purvey and ballyhoo anything and everything Red Sox or east-coast oriented.

GregoryEtc
10-30-2005, 08:37 PM
I'm not at all upset about the ratings either. What did they expect at Fox? They spent all of the ALCS and WS downplaying how good the Sox really were. Why shoot yourselves in the foot like that? They basically told America, "Don't watch, this team is just lucky and not worth watching." Serves them right.

NardiWasHere
10-30-2005, 08:51 PM
I feel like Fox is way too gimmicky. They don't promote baseball. Everything has to do with subplots and false drama. There should be no reason a World Series with the one of the largest markets playing in it be low-rated. NBC got their drama from Costas romanticizing the occurences on the field. Fox tries to get drama from making it a reality show.

TornLabrum
10-30-2005, 09:15 PM
I couldn't have said it better. Costas is outstanding for championships and dramatics. I couldn't imagine someone being better than him for the olympics.

As for Fox--Buck and McCarver were bad, but the director really blew it with all the facial close-up shots. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to see where the catcher was setting up/what the runners were doing/where the fielders were playing, and all I could see was a close-up of Ozzie or Garner or Contreras picking his nose etc...

Not to mention all the times we came back from a commercial in the middle of the first pitch or even after the first pitch.

I know they are trying to play up the dramatics, but it's already dramatic enough. I don't need to see the pores on Bobby Jenks' face--I need to see where AJ is setting up for the heater.

I can only think of one other place I've seen more extreme close-ups than this year's World Series telecasts: the gunfight scene in the graveyard in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly."

doctorlecter
10-30-2005, 09:17 PM
I feel like Fox is way too gimmicky. They don't promote baseball. Everything has to do with subplots and false drama. There should be no reason a World Series with the one of the largest markets playing in it be low-rated. NBC got their drama from Costas romanticizing the occurences on the field. Fox tries to get drama from making it a reality show.
I guess good, tight, back-and-forth ballgames are not enough for Fox. Their need to create ridiculous story lines (A.J./made up curse) overshadowed what should have been their main focus -- the ballgames that they paid A LOT of money to broadcast.

I want Mags back
10-30-2005, 09:19 PM
Id love to see ABC get the rights to it once Fox contract ends. Since they have now lost the NHL, the NFL will be gone next year, and most college football incluging the BCS will be leaving in 2009, it would be cool to have then do it, with Al Michaels would be amazing

Daver
10-30-2005, 09:21 PM
with Al Michaels would be amazing

Al Michaels should be beat to death with his own left leg.

doctorlecter
10-30-2005, 09:29 PM
Al Michaels should be beat to death with his own left leg.
Thank you Daver! The only announcer that loves the sound of his own voice more than Al "I don't know the difference between offsides and encroachment even though I've been ABC's number one NFL play-by-play man for years" Michaels is none other than CHIP CARAY!

TornLabrum
10-30-2005, 09:32 PM
Al Michaels should be beat to death with his own left leg.

Thanks, Daver. Michaels is horrible, one of the reasons I quit watching Monday Night Football. One thing to remember, too, is that if ABC gets the not, we might just see some of the "usual gang of idiots" from their sister network ESPN.

batmanZoSo
10-30-2005, 09:43 PM
Al Michaels should be beat to death with his own left leg.

LMAO. So long as we've looked at it logically and from all angles. :roflmao:

bahn1225
10-30-2005, 10:07 PM
Okay, how about this idea:

Use the home team announcers.
An example: This year Hawk and D.J. would have done the first two games
and the Houston team would have done the second two.

It would give the local guys time in the limelight
and eliminate the network "I'm the star of this event" type broadcaster.

Also I think all the people that live at the Robert Taylor homes and work in the stockyards would like it as well. :rolling:

Chips
10-30-2005, 10:13 PM
Okay, how about this idea:

Use the home team announcers.
An example: This year Hawk and D.J. would have done the first two games
and the Houston team would have done the second two.

It would give the local guys time in the limelight
and eliminate the network "I'm the star of this event" type broadcaster.

Also I think all the people that live at the Robert Taylor homes and work in the stockyards would like it as well. :rolling:

I like it.

SABRSox
10-30-2005, 10:42 PM
I can only think of one other place I've seen more extreme close-ups than this year's World Series telecasts: the gunfight scene in the graveyard in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly."

Good point. It makes me think that the director of the World Series had seen one too many Leone movies recently.

As for the low ratings, I blame the media for that. They are responsible for the insane promotion and build up of the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees, and their ratings predictably suffer when one of those two teams are not involved. Had they promoted the game rather than those two teams, it wouldn't matter so much as to who was playing in the World Series. But, as far as Fox and ESPN are concerned, it's live by the Red Sox/Yankees, die by the Red Sox/Yankees.

And for all those people who didn't tune in, they missed one hell of a series. By far the most exciting in recent years.

PKalltheway
10-30-2005, 10:45 PM
You're absolutely right. This was the most exciting four game sweep I've ever seen. Most four game sweeps are blowouts. As for the Fox announcers, why not have Thom Brennaman call the World Series? He's a great announcer and he's the best Fox has to offer.

TornLabrum
10-30-2005, 10:48 PM
Okay, how about this idea:

Use the home team announcers.
An example: This year Hawk and D.J. would have done the first two games
and the Houston team would have done the second two.

It would give the local guys time in the limelight
and eliminate the network "I'm the star of this event" type broadcaster.

Also I think all the people that live at the Robert Taylor homes and work in the stockyards would like it as well. :rolling:

It's not a new idea. At least until sometime in the '60s NBC and Gillette used to use the lead TV announcer from the two championship teams on the telecasts, each taking half the game. In '59 the PBP was done by Jack Brickhouse and Vin Scully. Mel Allen and Bob Prince (iirc) did the '60 Series. I don't remember who besides Allen did the '57 and '58 Series because I can't remember who the Braves' PBP guy was. In the first two Series I remember, it was Allen and Red Barber for the Yankees and Dodgers.

I think this ended when the Game of the Week went truly national and the networks decided to use their own announcers.

BTW, another contrast between then and now: the NBC feed from the '59 Series was simulcast on Channel 9.

paciorek1983
10-30-2005, 10:53 PM
Good point. It makes me think that the director of the World Series had seen one too many Leone movies recently.

As for the low ratings, I blame the media for that. They are responsible for the insane promotion and build up of the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees, and their ratings predictably suffer when one of those two teams are not involved. Had they promoted the game rather than those two teams, it wouldn't matter so much as to who was playing in the World Series. But, as far as Fox and ESPN are concerned, it's live by the Red Sox/Yankees, die by the Red Sox/Yankees.

And for all those people who didn't tune in, they missed one hell of a series. By far the most exciting in recent years.

Somewhere on these very boards during the summer, I mentioned the fact that this was going to happen with the ratings. When networks don't give good teams credit, except teams on the east coast, the ratings for the post-season will suffer, when teams other than east coast teams make it. for the way the Sox were treated in the media this year, the networks deserve the low ratings.

I would like to see baseball back on NBC. National baseball broadcasting took a big dump once NBC lost it's "Game of the Week". CBS was terrible and FOX is only slightly better. I'd love to see Costas broadcating baseball again==he loves the game and he would be great at bringing it's drama into a proper perspective. Hey maybe, if John Roney doesn't come back with the Sox, he might be a national broadcaster for baseball. When does the FOX contract run out?

PKalltheway
10-30-2005, 10:56 PM
It runs out after the 2006 Season.

samram
10-30-2005, 11:28 PM
Somewhere on these very boards during the summer, I mentioned the fact that this was going to happen with the ratings. When networks don't give good teams credit, except teams on the east coast, the ratings for the post-season will suffer, when teams other than east coast teams make it. for the way the Sox were treated in the media this year, the networks deserve the low ratings.

I was thinking exactly this the other day. Fox has no one to blame but itself. They basically made it seem as if there are only two teams worth watching, and when neither made it, well, no one watched. Hopefully it's a lesson to them that the marketing of their baseball programming should focus on the "anything can happen" aspect of baseball instead of the traditional rivalry angle since the only people that really care about rivalries are fans of the teams involved.

bahn1225
10-30-2005, 11:58 PM
It's not a new idea.

There are no new ideas.
Only forgotten good ideas to recycle.
:rolleyes:

SouthSide_HitMen
10-31-2005, 12:24 AM
A White sox fan called his show and when they discussed the low ratings Matt Drudge asked if anyone has blamed the ratings on the pathetic coverage on Fox. Matt went on to say "Doesn't Ruppert Murdoch have enough God damned money that he would not have to show an ad after every pitch? If I had to see one more Fox promo for their tv shows..."

I don't recall anyone knocking the Fox coverage in their "ratings" wire release. I don't know if any media critics reflected this opinion in their White sox / World Series ratings bashing articles. Most people I talked to (on both sides of the political spectrum) think Fox' sports coverage blows. From glow on the screen hockey pucks to ads upon ads upon ads during the game (missing game action like home runs and other things people may think important) Fox has been the worst in sports broadcasting. ABC / ESPN ranks right up there.

I liked NBC but they have dropped most sports programming (except Notre Dame football coverage which is totally obnoxious (not that the team is covered but rather NBC's coverage and hype of it and the obscened dollars involved and Notre Dame's BCS bye granted by ABC). CBS doesn't bother me so it ranks second.

schmitty9800
10-31-2005, 01:11 AM
IIRC Nielsen also changed the way sports games are rated to better reflect viewing patterns. Baseball ratings as a whole are down because of this.

Stroker Ace
10-31-2005, 01:21 AM
Costas would be great doing games if the World Series moved networks. If ESPN/ABC picked it up, we would have to sit through all of the BS from Berman.

peeonwrigley
10-31-2005, 01:28 AM
I loathe games on Fox. You're gonna have a million gimmicky things going on the screen. Little windows are going to pop up with useless information. You're gonna have inherent storylines that even a minimally involved fan already knows shoved down your throat. You'll miss pitches because they're showing highlights from a past game for the 3055315th time. Everything will have a sponsor.

They give you no opportunity to place your own interpretation on the game. Its whatever the announcers and producers want.

In regards to announcers - how hard/expensive would it be to have 3 feeds of the game? For example, the Sox have their usual production team do one feed, Houston has theirs do another, and then Fox can have a national feed. It would then be up to each Fox station as to which feed they will choose.

I think the home market teams could still get across the ads, promotions, etc that Fox has nationally - and it would be a nice touch for fans in the home market. Won't ever happen, but that's what I want.

getonbckthr
10-31-2005, 01:28 AM
i want Keith Jackson. best announcer in sports. hearing him call a football game is unbelievable. his voice yells big time. part of what is so great about the rose bowl is his ability to paint a picture.

WSoxFanForever
10-31-2005, 06:49 AM
The second lowest rated world series was the Yanks vs. Mets. It's not just that the Sainted Yanks or Red Sox weren't in the WS. Unless you're a diehard fan of a certain team, you may get bored watching the long playoff march to the WS. At any rate, I hope Fox doesn't do the WS next year. I had to mute the TV sound--they were pathetic. ESPN could be as bad, but not worse.