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gobears1987
10-30-2005, 10:05 AM
I thought this is an interesting question.

Going into next year, how do you rank our main 4? (assuming McCarthy is the 5th starter)

My rankings
Buehrle (most consistent)
Contreras (it seems Buehrle's work fast method rubbed off on Contreras as it did on Garland.)
Garland (should've been a 20 game winner last year)
Garcia

How many teams would kill to have Garcia as an ace let along 4th starter?

munchman33
10-30-2005, 10:09 AM
Contreras
Garland
Buehrle
McCarthy
Garcia

Of course that isn't going to be the order, but that's how I'd rank 'em.

gobears1987
10-30-2005, 10:16 AM
Contreras
Garland
Buehrle
McCarthy
Garcia

Of course that isn't going to be the order, but that's how I'd rank 'em.Garcia as a 5th starter!!! NO WAY WE DON'T REPEAT!!!! (no pink necessary)

batmanZoSo
10-30-2005, 10:29 AM
It doesn't really matter that much in the regular season in what order you set your rotation. To me, all four are pretty much equal. I can't tell you who's better than whom. None are Sandy Koufax, that is to say a sure thing every time out. All can be hit from time to time, but all are borderline ace material. If anything, I'd go with the same order as we did in the playoffs, only Buehrle and Contreras will swap positions. I give Buehrle the number 1 slot because of seniority with the team.

Buehrle -- He's been our ace for years now and he's earned it.
Contreras -- Had more postseason starts than anyone and pitched his ass off.
Garland -- Had a better year than Garcia, period. He deserves the rank.
Garcia -- Gotta be the best fourth starter in the game.
McCarthy -- Big X-factor. If he pitches all year like he did toward the end of last, holy ****.

Realist
10-30-2005, 11:00 AM
I'd write the names of those five guys/horses down on little scraps of paper and throw them into a hat. Then I wouldn't let anybody near that hat unless their names are Ozzie Guillen or Don Cooper.

DickAllen72
10-30-2005, 11:04 AM
Contreras
Buehrle
Garland
Garcia
McCarthy

Wow.

Jjav829
10-30-2005, 11:09 AM
Good question. I've actually already thought about how the starting rotation would be lined up going into next season.

1.) Buehrle - No question. I don't care if he doesn't have the best stuff. He's the leader of this staff in every way.
2.) Garland - Had one hell of a breakout year. The interesting thing is that after everybody started talking about Garland's lack of strikeouts he actually started striking out more hitters late in the season. In Garland's last 8 starts, playoffs included, his K totals were: 7, 1, 6, 3, 7, 5, 7, 4.
3.) Contreras - Great second half. Like Garland, this is his contract year.
4.) Garcia - 14 wins. 3.87 ERA. Our #2 going into 2005. Is there a better #4 starter in baseball?
5.) McCarthy - How good was he after being recalled a second time? A full season of McCarthy should be very interesting.

WestSox
10-30-2005, 11:09 AM
Buehrle
Garland
Contreras
Garcia
McCarthy

Contreras obviously picked it up after August and was HUGE in the playoffs, but I don't see this guy being consistent enough next year to be the #1 or #2. He's past his prime and we've probably missed his best (which was in Cuba). I'm still happy that we have him, though! :gulp:

ElDuque26
10-30-2005, 11:10 AM
Beuhrle- always there and goes deep into the game
Contreras- control is the key... >2 walks is crucial
Garland- keep the sinker down and the heater up
Garcia- pitch fast...the more he paces the more he struggles
B-Mac- repeat end of this year and it'll be impressive

Cooper is the one who makes it all work and whatever he goes with will for sure be the right combination

The_Floridian
10-30-2005, 11:28 AM
I'm just grinning from ear to ear imagining all the teams that would like to be having this debate right now.

I do not believe I am mistaken when I say:


:threadrules:

TDog
10-30-2005, 12:06 PM
.... None are Sandy Koufax, that is to say a sure thing every time out. ...

Sandy Koufax lost a World Series game to the White Sox, but that was before he started pitching an annual no-hitter.

True, none of the Sox starters strike the sort of fear in hitters that a couple of active pitchers do. But in the same rotation, they were very good this year. I would like to believe Garland and Contreras have turned the corner and BMac's second stint with the Sox this year are a sign of things to come. Buehrle and Garcia didn't exceed expectations at all.

I so hope the Sox have a strong group of talented starters and I hope Bobby Jenks only gets better as a closer. I try not to think about the 1984 staff I expected so much from, adding Tom Seaver to an already strong rotation. LaMarr Hoyt fizzled out and ended up in San Diego. Floyd Bannister's struggles took him to Japan. Richard Dotson never came close to going 20-6 again for the Sox and ended up being traded to the Yankees, where he never came close to going 20-6.

I cut my Sox-fan teeth on a rotation that featured Jerry Crider. The thought of the Sox having a quality starter every day excites me. But this year I have this year to excite me. I don't want to think about next year until next year.

Fredsox
10-30-2005, 12:32 PM
I'm just grinning from ear to ear imagining all the teams that would like to be having this debate right now.



I think you hit the nail on the head here. Largely it doesn't matter what the rotation looks like over the course of the season. The interesting thing is that with these starters, El Duque in the bullpen doing long relief and spot/emergency starting, and the rest of the bullpen lead by Jenks, Cotts, Politte, and Hermy, I thinks its clear that going in we have the best pitching staff in all of baseball.

As far as the rest of the league goes, it sure sucks to be them.

RallyBowl
10-30-2005, 01:03 PM
Good question. I've actually already thought about how the starting rotation would be lined up going into next season.

1.) Buehrle - No question. I don't care if he doesn't have the best stuff. He's the leader of this staff in every way.
2.) Garland - Had one hell of a breakout year. The interesting thing is that after everybody started talking about Garland's lack of strikeouts he actually started striking out more hitters late in the season. In Garland's last 8 starts, playoffs included, his K totals were: 7, 1, 6, 3, 7, 5, 7, 4.
3.) Contreras - Great second half. Like Garland, this is his contract year.
4.) Garcia - 14 wins. 3.87 ERA. Our #2 going into 2005. Is there a better #4 starter in baseball?
5.) McCarthy - How good was he after being recalled a second time? A full season of McCarthy should be very interesting.

That's "THE Rotation". Awesome. Can't wait 'till Opening Day!:Rocker:

kevingrt
10-30-2005, 01:32 PM
As of now I'm going to have to go with:

1. Mark Buehrle- Most consistent, gets the J-O-B done everytime
2. Jose Contreras- Best stuff on staff, due for something magical next season (no-hitter)
3. Jon Garland- Great stuff and grinds throughout the whole game. Ozzie and Coop made him a great pitcher.
4. Freddy Garcia- A shutout in seven innings in a World Series game, 'nough said.
5. Brandon McCarthy- Youngest pitcher. Has awesome stuff. Is tall. Is good. Will be awesome

I think by the time the All-Star break next year comes around B-Mac might be #4 and Garcia #5, but who wouldn't want Garcia or McCarthy as a #5 starter?

FloridaSox
10-30-2005, 01:37 PM
Good question. I've actually already thought about how the starting rotation would be lined up going into next season.

1.) Buehrle - No question. I don't care if he doesn't have the best stuff. He's the leader of this staff in every way.
2.) Garland - Had one hell of a breakout year. The interesting thing is that after everybody started talking about Garland's lack of strikeouts he actually started striking out more hitters late in the season. In Garland's last 8 starts, playoffs included, his K totals were: 7, 1, 6, 3, 7, 5, 7, 4.
3.) Contreras - Great second half. Like Garland, this is his contract year.
4.) Garcia - 14 wins. 3.87 ERA. Our #2 going into 2005. Is there a better #4 starter in baseball?
5.) McCarthy - How good was he after being recalled a second time? A full season of McCarthy should be very interesting.

McCarthy will best one of bunch in 2007. Jose, Mark and Jon may all be gone by then...as the big bucks roll in.

WestSox
10-30-2005, 01:40 PM
Jose, Mark and Jon may all be gone by then...as the big bucks roll in.

Jose will definitely be gone, but the Sox would be idiots to let Buehrle and Garland walk (unless Garland's '05 season proves to be a fluke, which is doubtful).

antitwins13
10-30-2005, 04:21 PM
Buehrle
Garland
Contreras
Garcia
McCarthy

Contreras obviously picked it up after August and was HUGE in the playoffs, but I don't see this guy being consistent enough next year to be the #1 or #2. He's past his prime and we've probably missed his best (which was in Cuba). I'm still happy that we have him, though! :gulp:


I agree with the rotation, but I think Contreras may be a late bloomer. We'll have to wait and see.

DSpivack
10-30-2005, 04:31 PM
Could we be even better next year? It's certainly possible!

SoxFan64
10-30-2005, 04:32 PM
McCarthy will best one of bunch in 2007. Jose, Mark and Jon may all be gone by then...as the big bucks roll in.

Didn't Buerhle sign a three year contract at the end of last year. So unless my math is off then Buerhle has a signed contract of $7 m for '05; $8 m for '06 and $9 m for '07.

I may be off on the figures of his contract but I do remember it was a step up each year.

So that leads to the question -- why would Buerhle not be with us in '07??? He is a steal at $9 m.

SoxFan64
10-30-2005, 04:39 PM
The interesting thing is that with these starters, El Duque in the bullpen doing long relief and spot/emergency starting...

I will defer to others here but I was under the impression that El Duque wants to remain a starter. I remember seeing an article on ESPN about it. That is not to say that ESPN could be wrong. :redneck

But being a reliever was El Duque's only option for the 05 playoffs. Short of a trade or injury of one of the other starters or bMac, there is no place in the rotation for him.

So he could be moved.

That is not to say that I would not like him in my bullpen. But I think with the need to sign others long-term (read Paulie and Garland) Hernandez may be moved along with his $4 m contract.

gobears1987
10-30-2005, 06:46 PM
BMac won't be moved. Ozzie loves him and compares him to Blackjack. He is the future of this rotation. I think we can keep this staff together for 2 more years. Buehrle has said he wants to play for the Cards, but I don't expect him to go there until the end of his career. Sort of like how Roger Clemens went to play for the team he loved growing up when he was at the end of his career. I expect Jon to stay around because he seems to have bonded with Buehrle and Cooper. Besides, Ozzie has shown confidence in him. Garcia is here another 2 years, and I don't see him leaving. Especially with his relationship with Ozzie. He is here as long as Ozzie is. Contreras may go for more money, but then again he may stay here. He seems to have found his groove here.

FloridaSox
10-30-2005, 07:19 PM
Jose will definitely be gone, but the Sox would be idiots to let Buehrle and Garland walk (unless Garland's '05 season proves to be a fluke, which is doubtful).


Buehrle still has Cardinal lust in his heart.

credefan24
10-30-2005, 08:20 PM
MB has said several times that his boyhood dream was to play for the Cards. But he also said that he would honor his contract and time here in Chicago. Maybe it's naive, but hopefully Mark will create some strong ties, if he hasn't done so already, and decide to resign with the Sox when his contract is up.
Bottom line, this staff will be stellar for the next couple years.

gobears1987
10-30-2005, 08:24 PM
Mark has said he will be a Southsider until he gets teh feeling he isn't wanted here anymore. My guess is he waits until he is past his prime until he goes to the Cards. Just like Clemens did.

chisoxfanatic
10-30-2005, 09:10 PM
Contreras (until someone else can dominate like he did down that stretch)
Buehrle (always up for the BIG games)
Garland (this year was NOT a fluke)
Garcia (knows how to get himself out of jams)
McCarthy (will be a stud in a year or two)

peeonwrigley
10-30-2005, 09:21 PM
Barring an unforseen circumstances during the offseason and Spring Training I would head into next year with this rotation:

1. Buehrle - No doubt, he's the leader of the staff. Defense loves playing behind him and he deserves the ball for opening day. He also seemed to be enjoying the run through the playoffs and the parade as much as any fan. He's the face of the team right now.

2. Garland - This year was not a fluke, and he's going to win 15-20 again next year. Really turned a corner this year.

3. Jose - I consider him our best pitcher right now. Figured something out and got his stuff together. Have him at 3 b/c if its not a playoff situation, I don't like having the two best back to back.

4. Garcia - We saw what Freddy was made of during the playoffs. Consistently has performed in big games. A proven winner in the bigs, and the best "#4" in baseball.

5. McCarthy - If he performs in the Spring, he deserves this shot. He pitched awesome under pressure in some big games thisyear and its his time to get a full shot in the bigs.

Duque should be kept around for spot starts and long relief.