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View Full Version : Phase VI Renovations?


lths06
10-29-2005, 06:32 PM
I know that they will replace all of the blue seats next year, but has anyone heard word of anything else in the works? I'm hoping they will put up the "home run porch" in right for next year. This will give Uncle Jerry more seats since now the Sox will be getting better attendance than Wrigley.

skobabe8
10-29-2005, 06:34 PM
Green seats and a couple of new flags. That should be it.

antitwins13
10-29-2005, 06:35 PM
I know that they will replace all of the blue seats next year, but has anyone heard word of anything else in the works? I'm hoping they will put up the "home run porch" in right for next year. This will give Uncle Jerry more seats since now the Sox will be getting better attendance than Wrigley.


The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.

Ol' No. 2
10-29-2005, 06:35 PM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.Yeah. The hell with this family friendly stuff.

skobabe8
10-29-2005, 06:36 PM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.

Yeah! Put the billboard back up!

Chips
10-29-2005, 06:37 PM
Hopefully when they put the 2005 World Champions pennant, they'll put the 1906 flag back up.

Banix12
10-29-2005, 06:39 PM
I remember seeing plans at one time that they were thinking of putting a homerun porch over by the out of town scoreboard but I think those plans were finally scrapped. I think it's just new Green Seats and a sweet world champions pennant.

Mohoney
10-29-2005, 06:41 PM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.

Honestly, do you say stuff like this just to intentionally cheese people off? Do you really think that there is a chance in hell that they're going to remove something that's exactly one season old?

MadetoOrta
10-29-2005, 06:41 PM
I wasn't a fan of Fundamentals until my 4 and 6 year old nephews told me how much they liked racing Pods. Lock 'em in when they're young. Smart move. Now, a homerun porch over rightfield with a large sports bar attached to it - called "McCuddy's" perhaps - that's open 365 would be a great place to go for the office X-mas Party, Easter brunch, kids birthday party, before and after game meals ....etc Oh never mind. I'm getting greedy with this World Championship.

Pulaski
10-29-2005, 06:46 PM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.

It is there to grow the Sox younger fan base. In the 80's, when the Sox were on Pay TV they lost out on a lot of kids because they watched the Cubs on WGN. Not many families had the pay TV channels in the early 80's.

ilsox7
10-29-2005, 06:48 PM
Anyone who wants a home run porch needs to realize how our 2005 World Champion Chicago White Sox won it all: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. This team is built on pitching now and will be for many years. Let's not do something that will only hurt our biggest strength.

Green seats work. The Park is otherwise a terrific place. And even better if you have kids. What the Sox are currently doing is pure genius. They market to families, are getting those families out to the Park, and are catering to them.

Putting a World Champion on the field helps, too.

ChiSoxRowand
10-29-2005, 06:48 PM
Hopefully when they put the 2005 World Champions pennant, they'll put the 1906 flag back up.

Did they use to have a 1906 champs flag? I know they don't have one now, and I wish they would put one up.

D. TODD
10-29-2005, 06:50 PM
The fundamentals deck looks very nice in my opinion. I am looking forward to the green seats as well. Hell we are WORLD CHAMPS, I have absolutely no complaints regarding the Sox!

antitwins13
10-29-2005, 06:51 PM
Honestly, do you say stuff like this just to intentionally cheese people off? Do you really think that there is a chance in hell that they're going to remove something that's exactly one season old?

I don't say anything to "cheese" people off. This is my opinion. What is wrong with having the fundamentals area where it used to be? I think it's an eyesore.

MadetoOrta
10-29-2005, 06:53 PM
The fundamentals deck looks very nice in my opinion. I am looking forward to the green seats as well. Hell we are WORLD CHAMPS, I have absolutely no complaints regarding the Sox!

This encapsulates my opinion on just about everything right now!! I wouldn't care if Ribbie and Rhubarb showed up again. WE'RE WORLD CHAMPS BABY!!!:bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

HotelWhiteSox
10-29-2005, 06:53 PM
I love the park, all it was missing was a recent World Series flag. Also, I heard that Upper Deck season ticket holders are now able to go in the lower deck (not sure if this will be new or was already implemented). Even though it doesn't apply to me, it sounds fair.

cwsfannick
10-29-2005, 07:07 PM
I would like to see the out of town scoreboard improved. Not only improve it physically, but also update the scores quicker.

greenpeach
10-29-2005, 07:13 PM
I remember seeing plans at one time that they were thinking of putting a homerun porch over by the out of town scoreboard but I think those plans were finally scrapped. I think it's just new Green Seats and a sweet world champions pennant.

You're correct. The home run porch was going to be a replica of the old right-field porch at Tiger Stadium. However, I think that Southside Jerry said that they ran out of US Cellular money. So, the plan was scrapped for the time being.

ewokpelts
10-29-2005, 07:30 PM
Anyone who wants a home run porch needs to realize how our 2005 World Champion Chicago White Sox won it all: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. This team is built on pitching now and will be for many years. Let's not do something that will only hurt our biggest strength.

Green seats work. The Park is otherwise a terrific place. And even better if you have kids. What the Sox are currently doing is pure genius. They market to families, are getting those families out to the Park, and are catering to them.

Putting a World Champion on the field helps, too.
it's more of an upper deck for the outfield....it wouldnt hang over the existing lower deck outfield seats....imagine it being supported in the same way the fundamentals deck is
Gene

Theanticub
10-29-2005, 07:33 PM
I don't say anything to "cheese" people off. This is my opinion. What is wrong with having the fundamentals area where it used to be? I think it's an eyesore.

It is hardly an eyesore, considering the alternative..a big billboard..just like the ones all over the stadium as is.

Joosh
10-29-2005, 07:42 PM
I would like to see the out of town scoreboard improved. Not only improve it physically, but also update the scores quicker.

AND a wew paint job. The blue doesn't fit with the new color scheme.

I think the fundamentals looks great! I wouldn't change it at all. Its a great place to watch a ball game, attracts families to the park, and looks great in the park.

The only thing I would change is move the black and white scoreboard over, so the left side of the upper deck can see it.

Also, I'd love to see a facade of the Chicago Skyline somehow integrated with the billboards/exploding scoreboard.

Frank the Tank
10-29-2005, 08:10 PM
I hope they do put a home run porch in. Given our team's recent success, it would seem to make perfect business sense to increase the attendance of the park. Not only would it increase the capacity, but it could be sponsored. It shouldn't be hard to find a sponsor after winning a world series. It might even pay for itself.

Red Barchetta
10-29-2005, 09:07 PM
I wasn't crazy about the FunDamentals area until I saw it completed. I think it looks great on TV, especially the first base camera angle. It adds much needed depth and I guess it's actually pretty cool for the kids.

Regarding new rennovations I had a brief discussion with Brooks after the ALCS game 2 in the post game patio party. He said the green seats and the completion of the Scout Seats restaurant area are the two priorities. I had also suggested more brickwork around the press box and other open concrete areas. We then talked about how cool it would be to brick the concourse walkway and he indicated they plan to do something on a smaller scale around the center field fan deck where more statues will be installed. I think a brick paver-like concourse with statues, trees and park benches or picnic tables would be cool.

I hope they eventually build some kind of home run or fan deck in right field, something geared more towards adults.

Hitmen77
10-29-2005, 09:18 PM
For next year, I hope the team does something to improve basic scoreboard information visibility. Sitting in seats down the 3rd base line, you can't see the line score or the R-H-E totals for the game. This affects alot of seats at the park and it's inexcusable that so many fans can't see the basic game totals.

My preference would be for them to swap the b&w scoreboard with the billboard next to it so that everyone can see this scoreboard. If this is too expensive to do, then I hope the team at least sticks up a R-H-E and line score total somewhere in the park that is visible to 3rd base side fans.

Other than that, I hope they can afford someday to add a RF "not-a-HR-porch" to increase seating availability. They had 24 sellouts (counting 6 postseason) this year and I expect they'll have more next year.

zach074
10-29-2005, 09:19 PM
I happen to love the fundamentals, it give the park more character and who doesn't like racing Pods.

chisoxfanatic
10-29-2005, 09:37 PM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.

:tealpolice:

It makes the stadium look even better!

chisoxfanatic
10-29-2005, 09:37 PM
Green seats and a couple of new flags. That should be it.

Of course, the later being the most important here!!! :gulp:

The Critic
10-29-2005, 09:41 PM
Fundamentals looks great, the park looks great, I think with the green seats anf the new flaggage the park is done......unless they feel like adding more flags in the next few years, of course....:D:

TheOldRoman
10-29-2005, 09:45 PM
I happen to love the fundamentals, it give the park more character and who doesn't like racing Pods.
I agree. I was not a fan of it when I saw the rendering last year, but I gave it a chance.
That being said, I absolutely LOVE it. I think the structure is very nice - perfect shape, perfect size. It breaks up the symetrical look of the park, which is a very good thing. It is very unique and distinguishable, much much better than another billboard. It is picturesque to look down the left field line from behind homeplate. Nothing like that view in Old Comiskey, but then again, I don't know that anything could match that.

I think the biggest improvement could be made by eliminating the grey painted concrete as much as possible. Put bricks and steel around the press box, and paint the area around the luxury suites green. Then cover up the concrete in the bullpens and wheel chair seating areas in the upperdeck with bricks. The advertisements in the bullpen could be painted on the bricks to mimic the alley murals seen in the city many years ago. It wouldn't be very drastic changes, but it would greatly improve the look of the park, IMO.

WagMan
10-29-2005, 10:50 PM
I have no complaints about what they've done so far and what they're planning on doing. The only thing I'd wish for is better scoreboard visibility. If you're in left-center and trying to score the game, it's virtually impossible to catch anything you missed. I wish they'd cut down the length of the ribbon boards for advertisements and have another scoreboard around the press box area.

SouthSide_HitMen
10-30-2005, 12:13 AM
Hopefully when they put the 2005 World Champions pennant, they'll put the 1906 flag back up.

And the 1901 AL Pennant.

PS - Also agree about adding the game totals (R / H / E) at the end of the ribbon adds or create two small ones at the ends in RF & LF. Maybe have the pictch count / pitch speed count on the two side scoreboards as well.

itsnotrequired
10-30-2005, 12:49 AM
I would like to see the out of town scoreboard improved. Not only improve it physically, but also update the scores quicker.

Agreed. That thing updates insanely slow. How hard is it to punch in the numbers as the scores come in? Have someone sitting out there with a laptop and wireless internet getting GameDay updates. All will be well.

Get rid of Fundamentals? Greatest idea ever.:rolleyes:

jcw218
10-30-2005, 01:32 AM
What is wrong with having the fundamentals area where it used to be? I think it's an eyesore.

Being an eyesore is your opinion and you're entitled to it. To answer your question, it's something for the kids to do during the game. With the fundamentals area under the ramps to the statium, ie behind gate 3, the only time that you could use them was prior to the game.

WhiteSox16K
10-30-2005, 01:48 AM
I think every change they've made to the park have been excellent and I am sure that several more small changes are being planned. The green seats next year are going to look great (at least until we hear complaining about how hot they are in the summer) and the WS banner will be a nice touch. On another note - while watching the WGN coverage Friday, it looked as if there were piles of seats (looked blue) in the players parking lot at the cell, which was right next to where the trolleys were lining up. This was only visable from the helicopter shot though. Did they get this quick of a start on things or was I just imagining things?

kevin57
10-30-2005, 07:50 AM
Are any "outside the park" changes envisioned in these plans?

About a year ago, the architectural critic for the Trib, Blair Kamin, spoke about how one could make the area surrounding the park more enticing. Then again, Daley made some comments not too long ago that Wrigley Field has its charm located where it is and how its neighborhood builds around it, and the Cell should not be an imitator.

While I would not want to duplicate "Wrigleyville," I do think enhancing the area would be a +.

C-Dawg
10-30-2005, 09:24 AM
On another note - while watching the WGN coverage Friday, it looked as if there were piles of seats (looked blue) in the players parking lot at the cell, which was right next to where the trolleys were lining up.

Those have been there for awhile; probably some "spares" they saved from the upper-deck reconfiguration.

I hope they sell the blue ones to the fans as they are removed, after all, a World Series was won with those seats. :smile:

The Dude
10-30-2005, 12:29 PM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.

Yeah lets just scrap an idea that cost millions and is already paying off by attracting more kids that may eventually become die-hards like ourselves. But who needs to build a fanbase??
It also offsets the cookie cutter look to the outfield.

The Dude
10-30-2005, 12:31 PM
The fundamentals deck looks very nice in my opinion. I am looking forward to the green seats as well. Hell we are WORLD CHAMPS, I have absolutely no complaints regarding the Sox!

Hey and who said that green seats wouldnt bring a championship???:D:

jabrch
10-30-2005, 12:33 PM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.

You must have gone to the Rob Gallas School of Marketing - cuz you don't get it one bit.

antitwins13
10-30-2005, 04:32 PM
You must have gone to the Rob Gallas School of Marketing - cuz you don't get it one bit.

LOL! That's why I'm an economics major and not a marketing major.

mike42
10-30-2005, 05:24 PM
Did they use to have a 1906 champs flag? I know they don't have one now, and I wish they would put one up.

There definitely used to be a 1906 champs flag at Old Comiskey. I bought it in an online auction that the Sox ran 3 or 4 years ago. I figured they had a new one up at the new park.

NozeNuggets
10-30-2005, 05:38 PM
LOL! That's why I'm an economics major and not a marketing major.

Touche!

nitetrain8601
10-30-2005, 07:01 PM
I think the park is already great. Personally I don't even think the blue seats are bad at all. I wish they kept them, but oh well. I know everyone is so hell bent on green seats.

antitwins13
10-30-2005, 07:02 PM
I think the park is already great. Personally I don't even think the blue seats are bad at all. I wish they kept them, but oh well. I know everyone is so hell bent on green seats.


not me. I would be in favor of kelly green like old Comisky, but we're going with forest green so we can be like every other ballpark. Great Idea!

nitetrain8601
10-30-2005, 07:07 PM
not me. I would be in favor of kelly green like old Comisky, but we're going with forest green so we can be like every other ballpark. Great Idea!

Kelly Green would make me literally barf.

cwsfannick
10-30-2005, 07:18 PM
A couple of additional ideas that I have are:

1. closing 35th street down to vehicle traffic from the 35th street ramp to shields. You could do this from the time the gates open until first pitch. You could set up a block party type of situation with local vendors selling their products.
2. Build out the area behind the right field concourse area with a large food court type of area. You could almost make a mini version of the taste to chicago.

The Critic
10-30-2005, 07:30 PM
A couple of additional ideas that I have are:

1. closing 35th street down to vehicle traffic from the 35th street ramp to shields. You could do this from the time the gates open until first pitch. You could set up a block party type of situation with local vendors selling their products.
2. Build out the area behind the right field concourse area with a large food court type of area. You could almost make a mini version of the taste to chicago.

I like these ideas, but wouldn't closing off 35th Street affect the buses? There aren't really many convenient alternate routes around that area to divert traffic.
The "Taste Of The Cell" idea is intriguing, although I think some would suggest that the food selection at the park is already good enough.

cwsfannick
10-30-2005, 07:38 PM
I like these ideas, but wouldn't closing off 35th Street affect the buses? There aren't really many convenient alternate routes around that area to divert traffic.
The "Taste Of The Cell" idea is intriguing, although I think some would suggest that the food selection at the park is already good enough.

I think buses would still be able to get close enough to the park that the inconvienence would be minimal. The big issue would be emergency vehicles. It just seems that 35th street is an under utilized piece of property that could used to enhance the game day experience.

Regarding the food selection, boy wouldn't be nice to get a Ricobene's breaded steak or an El Famous Burrito or a Rainbow Cone. It would be nice to see such southside establishments represented at the park.

34rancher
10-30-2005, 08:22 PM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.
But where will we put Baseball Tonight in next year's World Series?

Brian26
10-30-2005, 08:30 PM
I don't say anything to "cheese" people off. This is my opinion. What is wrong with having the fundamentals area where it used to be? I think it's an eyesore.

The Fundamentals Deck actually turned out to be a piece of architectural genius. It seems to be a fitting way to fill the vertical transition from the steep upper deck to the outfield concourse. The brick work around the columns looks really nice. I'm not sure why you think its an eyesore compared to what used to be there (the giant expressway-sized billboard).

TheDarkGundam
10-30-2005, 09:13 PM
I think they should do something with the Mcdonalds sign. I know Brooks won't get rid of it (Mcd's pays a lot of money for it), but could they at least replace it with a Mcd's clock or something?

GregoryEtc
10-30-2005, 09:27 PM
Let's save all the money being spent on green seats and just spend it on putting together a better team... We only won 99 games this year and we actually lost a playoff game... we can do better than that.

TornLabrum
10-30-2005, 09:34 PM
But where will we put Baseball Tonight in next year's World Series?

How about the men's room under the fan deck?

chisox
10-30-2005, 09:36 PM
phase VI involves installing more green seats, building a hill in center, growing ivy on the walls, a statue commemorating Eddie Gaedel, and constructing some type of cove just beyond the right field bleachers.

FedEx227
10-30-2005, 10:07 PM
How about an open-air concourse like all the great new stadiums have...gee I wish the Sox would have one of those instead of the un-attended blue eye-sore that is U.S. Comiskullar Park!

I like where the parks at now, but like a lot of people said, a newer out of town scoreboard would be great. Faster scorers, nicer design... otherwise I'm loving the field, its amazing to see photos/remember being at New Comiskey before these renovations, and seeing it now, its almost a completely different park.

LuvSox
10-30-2005, 10:50 PM
I think they should do something with the Mcdonalds sign. I know Brooks won't get rid of it (Mcd's pays a lot of money for it), but could they at least replace it with a Mcd's clock or something?

How about a McD's white sock?

The fan deck is a beautiful addition to the park.

Max Power
10-31-2005, 01:00 AM
- I wish they would put the pitch speed in a more visable location (on the ribbon boards?).
- Breakdown the total pitches into balls and strikes.
- Better out of town scoreboard.
- 1901 and 1906 flags.
- 2005 flag will be the best improvement, no doubt.

Stroker Ace
10-31-2005, 01:24 AM
What is wrong with having the fundamentals area where it used to be? I think it's an eyesore.Yeah, and a flat billboard isn't? Give me a break.

MUsoxfan
10-31-2005, 01:27 AM
Yeah, and a flat billboard isn't? Give me a break.

I agree. I've often wanted to stare at the TD Waterhouse stock ticker hours after the markets have closed

Stroker Ace
10-31-2005, 01:28 AM
I would like to see the out of town scoreboard improved. Not only improve it physically, but also update the scores quicker.Yeah, I'll like to see the out of town scoreboard upgraded. Put in an LCD display so it's clearer.

RedHeadPaleHoser
10-31-2005, 08:36 AM
But where will we put Baseball Tonight in next year's World Series?
Two questions: Why is that in teal...and who says we let them back in??? :cool:

itsnotrequired
10-31-2005, 09:15 AM
Yeah, I'll like to see the out of town scoreboard upgraded. Put in an LCD display so it's clearer.

I don't mind the "old school" look to the board but it definitely needs to be updated quicker. I'll check scores on my cell phone and sometimes the board is behind by three innings.

BainesHOF
10-31-2005, 12:16 PM
The only thing I'd wish for is better scoreboard visibility. If you're in left-center and trying to score the game, it's virtually impossible to catch anything you missed. I wish they'd cut down the length of the ribbon boards for advertisements and have another scoreboard around the press box area.

Yes! I sit in the bleachers in left-center and it would be nice to see basic things like who's up and the scoreline. Also, in a big park with so many scoreboards, the name of the pitcher on the mound needs to be on some scoreboard.

Max Power
10-31-2005, 12:25 PM
Also, in a big park with so many scoreboards, the name of the pitcher on the mound needs to be on some scoreboard.

It's on the left-center board with the score line. But there are many places in the stadium that you can't see that board.
They need to use the ribbon boards for game info during the inning. They can do the ads on there between innings.

TomBradley72
10-31-2005, 12:44 PM
My suggestions for "fine tuning":


Cover as much "bare concrete" with a "brick look" as possible.
All unpainted metal (ie railings, etc.) painted dark green to match seats
Redesign overall scoreboard approach to maximize visibility.
Come up with names for various areas of the park that reflect the team's history (ie. Patio Area = Veeck Patio, Bullpen Sports Bar = McCuddy's, Stadium Club = Bards Room, etc.)
Add a few concession stands/permanent rest rooms for tailgating (ala Miller Park)

itsnotrequired
10-31-2005, 12:51 PM
My suggestions for "fine tuning":

Come up with names for various areas of the park that reflect the team's history (ie. Patio Area = Sony Veeck Patio, Bullpen Sports Bar = Pepsi presents McCuddy's, Stadium Club = Harris Bank Bards Room, etc.)

Fixed it for you.:tongue:

TomBradley72
10-31-2005, 01:02 PM
Fixed it for you.:tongue:

Anyone remember when Inland Steel (?) was a major sponsor in the 70's..."a leader in metals and materials handling"...always thought that was bizarre..

Realist
10-31-2005, 01:07 PM
My suggestions for "fine tuning":

Cover as much "bare concrete" with a "brick look" as possible.
All unpainted metal (ie railings, etc.) painted dark green to match seats
Redesign overall scoreboard approach to maximize visibility.
Come up with names for various areas of the park that reflect the team's history (ie. Patio Area = Veeck Patio, Bullpen Sports Bar = McCuddy's, Stadium Club = Bards Room, etc.)
Add a few concession stands/permanent rest rooms for tailgating (ala Miller Park)


Those are all great ideas! How about letting Sox fans donate $100 to have a name engraved on a faux brick? The brick could then be a dedication to a beloved Sox fan that is no longer with us, or to make living Sox fans feel even more at home at the park and a part of the White Sox. You could even buy a brick to celebrate the birth of new born infant Sox fans.

$50 of the donation could go to putting up the brick and the other $50 could go to Chicago Baseball Cancer Charities.

SoxFan78
10-31-2005, 01:25 PM
I would like to see something similar to what was in Busch Staduim. Some kind of signage by the bullpens or somewhere else which lets the fans know which pitchers are warming up. I dont think there is room in the current bullpens, but somewhere on the Scoreboard that said it. I think that would be pretty cool.

eriqjaffe
10-31-2005, 01:39 PM
Aside from the green seats (I don't really mind the blue ones, but they look out-of-place with the new color scheme), I'd love to see the scoreboard in center retro-fitted so that it actually shot the fireworks off as the original scoreboard did in Old Comiskey. But there's probably some fire code preventing that nowadays.

mattcoz
10-31-2005, 02:17 PM
I had also suggested more brickwork around the press box and other open concrete areas. We then talked about how cool it would be to brick the concourse walkway and he indicated they plan to do something on a smaller scale around the center field fan deck where more statues will be installed. I think a brick paver-like concourse with statues, trees and park benches or picnic tables would be cool.Yellow bricks leading up to a statue of Ozzie. :tongue:

Deuce
10-31-2005, 02:19 PM
Aside from the green seats (I don't really mind the blue ones, but they look out-of-place with the new color scheme), I'd love to see the scoreboard in center retro-fitted so that it actually shot the fireworks off as the original scoreboard did in Old Comiskey. But there's probably some fire code preventing that nowadays.

There are.

Joosh
10-31-2005, 02:19 PM
Aside from the green seats (I don't really mind the blue ones, but they look out-of-place with the new color scheme), I'd love to see the scoreboard in center retro-fitted so that it actually shot the fireworks off as the original scoreboard did in Old Comiskey. But there's probably some fire code preventing that nowadays.

That would a fantastic idea!

I'd love to see the exploding scoreboard taken to a new level, ie. doing different things after every homerun. Sometimes it could shoot off fireworks as it does now, and other times you could have pyrotechnics shooting off different directions in the air from the scoreboard. I'd love to see more creativity integrated in it. It's not difficult, especially when you already have a fireworks license.

mattcoz
10-31-2005, 02:22 PM
How hard is it to punch in the numbers as the scores come in? Have someone sitting out there with a laptop and wireless internet getting GameDay updates. All will be well.Why in the world would it be updated manually? Should be completely automatic, up to the second scoring updates. And give us more information, atleast the number of outs.

itsnotrequired
10-31-2005, 02:25 PM
Why in the world would it be updated manually? Should be completely automatic, up to the second scoring updates. And give us more information, atleast the number of outs.

Who knows why that thing is so slow? This is what is so baffling about the whole thing. Hell, I'll manually keep up with it for a free ticket to the game.:smile:

gobears1987
11-01-2005, 03:25 PM
Do you think they should go ahead and build the homerun porch? I know the idea was called off, but I think we will need to increase capacity. 40,000 seats will be filled quite often this year.

soxfanreggie
11-01-2005, 03:26 PM
How many seats would the home run porch add?

mweflen
11-01-2005, 03:29 PM
Do you think they should go ahead and build the homerun porch? I know the idea was called off, but I think we will need to increase capacity. 40,000 seats will be filled quite often this year.

IMHO, there is no way the park infrastucture (bathrooms, entrances/exits, concessions) could handle an additional 2-3k seats. Remember how awful it was to sit in the LD for Cubs/Sox games in 2001-2003 after they ballooned out the foul lines?

I also don't think there will be THAT much demand. remember, we haven't yet seen the 2006 gouges... whoops, I mean increases. I bet we'll do 2.5 mil - a bump of maybe 1,500 per game on average.

ewokpelts
11-01-2005, 03:30 PM
Prices for 2006 were set BEFORE THE WS WIN.....the avg increase is between 2-3 dollars

Gene

gobears1987
11-01-2005, 03:31 PM
Remember though that there is a huge jump in season ticket sales this year. I'm actually now considering buying an Ozzie plan and I've never bought a season plan before. I'm only 18 so an Ozzie plan is a huge deal for me (and a huge investment.)

Scotty347
11-01-2005, 03:32 PM
I don't think its necessary to add more seats. If the Sox can sell out the majority of their games next season, this will go a long way in improving the image of the franchise and its "attendance woes". Fenway and Wrigley Field have small capacities, and it definitely doesn't hurt them.

Its good business to create "scarcity" for our tickets. (Not by starting our own ticket brokerage of course) The franchise is on an upswing, its time to ride the wave.

Plan ahead this offseason, buy a ticket plan - and you will be good to go for next year.

gobears1987
11-01-2005, 03:37 PM
I don't think its necessary to add more seats. If the Sox can sell out the majority of their games next season, this will go a long way in improving the image of the franchise and its "attendance woes". Fenway and Wrigley Field have small capacities, and it definitely doesn't hurt them.

Its good business to create "scarcity" for our tickets. (Not by starting our own ticket brokerage of course) The franchise is on an upswing, its time to ride the wave.

Plan ahead this offseason, buy a ticket plan - and you will be good to go for next year.I have one question about the Ozzie plan. I know they require you to bu x number of tickets during some months. Can I get an exception for April and September since I'm down here in West Laf then? I'd like to see if I can not see any in April and watch those games in May when I will be able to go.

Iwritecode
11-01-2005, 03:37 PM
IMHO, there is no way the park infrastucture (bathrooms, entrances/exits, concessions) could handle an additional 2-3k seats. Remember how awful it was to sit in the LD for Cubs/Sox games in 2001-2003 after they ballooned out the foul lines?

Didn't they just remove a few thousand from the upperdeck?

gobears1987
11-01-2005, 03:38 PM
Didn't they just remove a few thousand from the upperdeck?Yes so they can handle it. I think they removed around 5,000, but don't quote me on that.

peeonwrigley
11-01-2005, 03:38 PM
IMHO, there is no way the park infrastucture (bathrooms, entrances/exits, concessions) could handle an additional 2-3k seats. Remember how awful it was to sit in the LD for Cubs/Sox games in 2001-2003 after they ballooned out the foul lines?

I also don't think there will be THAT much demand. remember, we haven't yet seen the 2006 gouges... whoops, I mean increases. I bet we'll do 2.5 mil - a bump of maybe 1,500 per game on average.

The season ticket base is gonna see quite a bump in its own right - whether or not that will translate into significantly less walkups remains to be seen.

So long as the team contends for the division again (and Frank and Paulie are still here) I think '06 attendence could justify the porch. We're not going to sell out every game anyways. But for games that will sell out regardless (Cubs, BoSox, Yanks, Opening Day, Playoffs) the extra capacity would be nice.

If the benefit outweighs the cost they might do it. Especially if they can slap a sponsor on it - just think: Tribune Company Home Run Deck.

All that said, I just don't see them doing it this year. They already lost a month on the seat renovations. There isn't enough time to plan, finance, and build this to have it done for April.

Randar68
11-01-2005, 03:40 PM
Do you think they should go ahead and build the homerun porch? I know the idea was called off, but I think we will need to increase capacity. 40,000 seats will be filled quite often this year.

There is overall gain to be made in business by creating scarcity of product availability. It focuses the demand. People who want tickets must commit in advance, making weather, opponent, gametime, etc less of a factor in drawing crowds on a consistent basis.

You don't add additional seating until you've shown the ability to fill seats ALL the time, not just for NYY, Cubs and Playoff games. Would be a poor investment and would be getting ahead of ourselves considerably.

gobears1987
11-01-2005, 03:40 PM
There is no way they do it this year as it requires some major construction, but they can at least design it this year and build it in the off-season.

Ol' No. 2
11-01-2005, 03:45 PM
Do you think they should go ahead and build the homerun porch? I know the idea was called off, but I think we will need to increase capacity. 40,000 seats will be filled quite often this year.You wouldn't have any ideas on how to pay for it, would you?

Iwritecode
11-01-2005, 03:47 PM
You wouldn't have any ideas on how to pay for it, would you?

I've got a buck-two-eighty. Anyone else want to chip in? :redneck

gobears1987
11-01-2005, 03:48 PM
You wouldn't have any ideas on how to pay for it, would you?I think people BUYING tickets for those seats would cover the costs.

JohnBasedowYoda
11-01-2005, 03:48 PM
You wouldn't have any ideas on how to pay for it, would you?

:rooney
"yeah good luck"

Ol' No. 2
11-01-2005, 03:50 PM
I think people BUYING tickets for those seats would cover the costs.How many tickets will they have to have sold before they have enough money to build it?

TheOldRoman
11-01-2005, 03:51 PM
You wouldn't have any ideas on how to pay for it, would you?
No, but Im sure Hangar and Lip do.:rolleyes:
"There is no reason our payroll can't be over $150 million".

gosox83
11-01-2005, 03:53 PM
I like the fact that there are not a ton of seats in our stadium.

I don't know about you guys, but when the place is very close to sold out or sold out there is this extra electricity in the air, and it is always more fun.

With that said, I think they should keep the capacity where it is, and if it sells out a lot that is actually a good thing, because all I hear people talk about when it is sold out and they win, is , "when are we coming back? Lets buy some tickets this was awesome"

GO SOX!!!

skobabe8
11-01-2005, 03:55 PM
There is overall gain to be made in business by creating scarcity of product availability. It focuses the demand. People who want tickets must commit in advance, making weather, opponent, gametime, etc less of a factor in drawing crowds on a consistent basis.

You don't add additional seating until you've shown the ability to fill seats ALL the time, not just for NYY, Cubs and Playoff games. Would be a poor investment and would be getting ahead of ourselves considerably.

Bingo.

Focus should be on improving the scoreboards and aesthetics. Not the seating capacity.

Stoky44
11-01-2005, 03:55 PM
First off the LD seating capacity has not changed since 2001-2003, its just now UD ticketed people can't go downstairs. A homerun porch will add probably 2-3k in seats. I am sure they have plans for it, at least ideas for it because they were originally going to put it in. I think the big issue is $ and they would need to get a sponsor for it, however, a sponsor will not take care of the entire cost. you have to figure that a homerun porch will cost easily 20million, i mean look how much has already been spent to build the fan deck and fundamentals. there is no way a sponsor pays that much money even over a 20 year period, I mean look how much money us cellular gives for the naming right of the entire stadium. I believe US cellular payed something like 40 or so million over 20 years.
Secondly, a good clue to what they plan on doing is the out of town scoreboard. If that is replaced I see no way they are adding a homerun porch. As long as they hold off on replacing that score board, which I think they are going to do eventually, there is hope of adding more seats.

Also keep in mind 40,000 seats is probably an average sized ball park and early replies had good points about keeping an increase in demand for tickets. Its the whole business supply and demand thing. Personally i hope they find the cash to put in a homerun porch, because I think it will make the park look better. however, you would then lose some more of our awesome outfield concourse.

dcb33
11-01-2005, 04:01 PM
You wouldn't have any ideas on how to pay for it, would you?

Maybe gobears could convince some big business to become a presenting partner with him here on WSI. How does "gobears1987, presented by *insert random corporation name here*" sound? I'm sure that would raise some mega bucks.


I don't like the idea of a home run porch, mainly becuase I normally sit out in the right field lower reserved area and I don't want poles obstructing my view.

Randar68
11-01-2005, 04:03 PM
Frankly, as opposed to the proposed home run porch addition, I re-vote to add the Grand Entrace at the entrance closest to 35th and the Red Line. Add a grand entrace with a Restarant/bar or 2 open year-round and hall of fame type of attractions, enclose concourse and ramps...

If we're going to add stuff, let's add things that can bring us revenue year round and quicken the rejuvenation of the area...

mweflen
11-01-2005, 04:05 PM
First off the LD seating capacity has not changed since 2001-2003, its just now UD ticketed people can't go downstairs. A homerun porch will add probably 2-3k in seats. I am sure they have plans for it, at least ideas for it because they were originally going to put it in. I think the big issue is $ and they would need to get a sponsor for it, however, a sponsor will not take care of the entire cost. you have to figure that a homerun porch will cost easily 20million, i mean look how much has already been spent to build the fan deck and fundamentals. there is no way a sponsor pays that much money even over a 20 year period, I mean look how much money us cellular gives for the naming right of the entire stadium. I believe US cellular payed something like 40 or so million over 20 years.
Secondly, a good clue to what they plan on doing is the out of town scoreboard. If that is replaced I see no way they are adding a homerun porch. As long as they hold off on replacing that score board, which I think they are going to do eventually, there is hope of adding more seats.

Also keep in mind 40,000 seats is probably an average sized ball park and early replies had good points about keeping an increase in demand for tickets. Its the whole business supply and demand thing. Personally i hope they find the cash to put in a homerun porch, because I think it will make the park look better. however, you would then lose some more of our awesome outfield concourse.

About 1500 seats were added in 01 when they re-oriented the bullpens and ballooned out the foul lines (creating the "lettered" rows of seats down the lines). I recall very distinctly how crowded restrooms and concession lines were in the years before they took out UD seats and implemented the UD restriction policy (the only rationale for it, IMHO)

I agree a home run porch might aesthetically be a nice thing in terms of "balancing" the fundamentals deck, however, I believe the loss of open concourse and the blockage of views for 1B-line fans would be a big negative (having sat down the 3B line in the LD this last season, I was often annoyed by not being able to read the lineup/scoreboard display).

mdep524
11-01-2005, 04:12 PM
If the Sox decide to build the so-called "homerun porch," it should NOT be merely to increase the stadium's capacity. That's stupid, and short-sighted. They should only build it if they feel it adds to the park's beauty and atmosphere.

Personally, I am all for it, as long as we stop calling it a "homerun porch" like some obstructive, overhanging deck that will cast shadows and block views. Something more like the Fundamentals deck, that sits back in the outfield out of homerun reach would be more appropriate. Add patio seating or a beer garden or general admission restaurant or something and you've got something worth doing.

Money wouldn't be a concern. The deck would pay for itself in a few years, and a sponsor like Miller Lite would foot a good portion of the bill anyway making the risk of any financial loss to the Sox very minimal. My opinion is that it won't ever happen though.

Ol' No. 2
11-01-2005, 04:18 PM
If the Sox decide to build the so-called "homerun porch," it should NOT be merely to increase the stadium's capacity. That's stupid, and short-sighted. They should only build it if they feel it adds to the park's beauty and atmosphere.

Personally, I am all for it, as long as we stop calling it a "homerun porch" like some obstructive, overhanging deck that will cast shadows and block views. Something more like the Fundamentals deck, that sits back in the outfield out of homerun reach would be more appropriate. Add patio seating or a beer garden or general admission restaurant or something and you've got something worth doing.

Money wouldn't be a concern. The deck would pay for itself in a few years, and a sponsor like Miller Lite would foot a good portion of the bill anyway making the risk of any financial loss to the Sox very minimal. My opinion is that it won't ever happen though.Money IS a problem. The people building it are going to want to get paid now, not out of future ticket sales. And the ISFA can't float bonds to pay for it without legislative approval. That's not going to happen. Unless they can get a sponsor to pay for all of it (not likely) it's not going to get built.

ewokpelts
11-01-2005, 04:20 PM
Maybe gobears could convince some big business to become a presenting partner with him here on WSI. How does "gobears1987, presented by *insert random corporation name here*" sound? I'm sure that would raise some mega bucks.


I don't like the idea of a home run porch, mainly becuase I normally sit out in the right field lower reserved area and I don't want poles obstructing my view.again, it would be built OVER THE CONCOURSE...not over existing seats...
Gene

CLR01
11-01-2005, 04:24 PM
again, it would be built OVER THE CONCOURSE...not over existing seats...
Gene


It is not getting built at all why are people arguing about it?

Ol' No. 2
11-01-2005, 04:26 PM
It is not getting built at all why are people arguing about it?But we need to clear up exactly WHERE it's not getting built and how much it's not going to cost.:tongue:

JohnBasedowYoda
11-01-2005, 04:28 PM
anyone remember hangar's drawings of what the ld should look like? priceless

CLR01
11-01-2005, 04:29 PM
But we need to clear up exactly WHERE it's not getting built and how much it's not going to cost.:tongue:


Well in that case it shouldn't be built under the press box.

Stoky44
11-01-2005, 04:31 PM
About 1500 seats were added in 01 when they re-oriented the bullpens and ballooned out the foul lines (creating the "lettered" rows of seats down the lines). I recall very distinctly how crowded restrooms and concession lines were in the years before they took out UD seats and implemented the UD restriction policy (the only rationale for it, IMHO)

I knew they added seats in 01, which is why I said LD seating capacity has not changed in the lower deck from the 01-03 seasons which you said was when it was so crowded. The removal of UD seats had no bearing on how crowded the LD is, because they can't get down there now. You could add 5,000 seats to the UD, and the LD would not become more crowded. As long as you don't add seats to the LD, it will not become anymore crowded and a homerun porch won't add LD seats.

na_na_na_na
11-01-2005, 04:38 PM
The inside of the park is almost perfect now and only needs a few low cost improvements(brickwork, signage changes, ect). I think attention needs to be paid to the idea of a Grand Entrance and improving the astetics and atmosphere along 35th street.

maurice
11-01-2005, 04:45 PM
The Grand Entrance has been my preferred improvement plan for years. The renderings looked great.

mweflen
11-01-2005, 04:46 PM
I knew they added seats in 01, which is why I said LD seating capacity has not changed in the lower deck from the 01-03 seasons which you said was when it was so crowded. The removal of UD seats had no bearing on how crowded the LD is, because they can't get down there now. You could add 5,000 seats to the UD, and the LD would not become more crowded. As long as you don't add seats to the LD, it will not become anymore crowded and a homerun porch won't add LD seats.

ah, so you are advocating extending the UD, not making your "porch" connected to the LD (as fundamentals is)?

The crowding was alleviated somewhat with the UD restriction policy. It is still, however, extremely crowded on sellout days. Lines for bathroom and concessions can get into the 30 min. range, and the exits are a mess.

The LD simply cannot accomodate any more fans. That is my point.

Stoky44
11-01-2005, 05:04 PM
ah, so you are advocating extending the UD, not making your "porch" connected to the LD (as fundamentals is)?

The crowding was alleviated somewhat with the UD restriction policy. It is still, however, extremely crowded on sellout days. Lines for bathroom and concessions can get into the 30 min. range, and the exits are a mess.

The LD simply cannot accomodate any more fans. That is my point.

The crowd alleviation after the 03 season you speak of is only because of the UD restriction policy. I know the lines are long everywhere in the park during sell outs. Also last I checked the fundamentals is connected to both the lower and upper deck. If you have a ticket for the UD you can go to the fundamentals and still not go to the LD. So yes my plans are to consider the homerun porch an upper deck seat, so the precious class system of the park will not be altered.

TheOldRoman
11-01-2005, 05:11 PM
ah, so you are advocating extending the UD, not making your "porch" connected to the LD (as fundamentals is)?

The crowding was alleviated somewhat with the UD restriction policy. It is still, however, extremely crowded on sellout days. Lines for bathroom and concessions can get into the 30 min. range, and the exits are a mess.

The LD simply cannot accomodate any more fans. That is my point.
I have been to several sell outs in the last few years, and sat in both the upper deck and lower deck. I can honestly say that I NEVER had to wait more than 5 min to use the bathrooms, and there are almost never all that big of lines. Then again, I am a male, and there are always much longer lines for the ladies' room.
However, that goes all to hell during Cubs games. For some reason (whatever could it be:rolleyes:), the beer lines are 5x longer than during a normal sell-out at the Cubs-Sox games I have gone to. Also, there are countless stooges crowding up the concourse. Honestly, there are huge groups of people standing at the back of the concourse (all around the park, not just in the outfield), taking up lots of space. The groups are usually right by the beer stands, so they dont have to go a grueling 3 minutes without a beer in their hands.
As for the other games, I think the facilities are fine. It is hard to assess how the HR porch would effect it because we dont know where it would be built, how many people it would hold, etc. I am envisioning something at around the same height as the FUNdamentals area. They would build bathrooms behind the seating, with a mini concourse. I believe a set of bathrooms on each end would do just fine for 3k people, but I am not a planner, so it is just a guess. The concourse would have stairs down to the outfield concourse on the left, and to the three levels on the right. As part of the HR porch, they would likely redo and extend the entrance in the RF corner, allowing for a quicker entrance and exit. It is not implausible.

kninchicago
11-01-2005, 05:22 PM
I'm a female Sox fan and have been to games of all crowd levels and have never had to wait for a bathroom regardless of section, for what it's worth. And I often sit in the LD, and did so for the ALDS and a Cubs game.

However the beer lines were ridiculous as well as just waiting for the poor servers walking up and down the aisles.

steff
11-01-2005, 05:27 PM
A couple of additional ideas that I have are:

1. closing 35th street down to vehicle traffic from the 35th street ramp to shields. You could do this from the time the gates open until first pitch. You could set up a block party type of situation with local vendors selling their products.
2. Build out the area behind the right field concourse area with a large food court type of area. You could almost make a mini version of the taste to chicago.


Eh.. sounds Fenway like. Pass.

steff
11-01-2005, 05:30 PM
The crowd alleviation after the 03 season you speak of is only because of the UD restriction policy. I know the lines are long everywhere in the park during sell outs. Also last I checked the fundamentals is connected to both the lower and upper deck. If you have a ticket for the UD you can go to the fundamentals and still not go to the LD. So yes my plans are to consider the homerun porch an upper deck seat, so the precious class system of the park will not be altered.



Thank God.. :rolleyes:

GoSox2K3
11-01-2005, 11:44 PM
....However the beer lines were ridiculous as well as just waiting for the poor servers walking up and down the aisles.

I think the problem isn't so much that there are too many people in the LD, but that the service at the concessions is VERY SLOW! I'm often in line where it seems to take forever just to serve the 2 or 3 people ahead of me in line.

mdep524
11-02-2005, 02:16 AM
Money IS a problem. The people building it are going to want to get paid now, not out of future ticket sales. And the ISFA can't float bonds to pay for it without legislative approval. That's not going to happen. Unless they can get a sponsor to pay for all of it (not likely) it's not going to get built. It is not illegal for the Sox organization to spend money. Investments can improve your company's value. If the new deck brings in revenue, it may well be a very profitable investment for the Sox. Would it? I don't know, that's for the team to assess.

If done correctly it might improve the atmosphere of the park and make it more aesthetically pleasing and possibly more of a "destination." That might translate to higher attendance and more profits, again that's for the Sox to assess.

This is all a hypothetical (and most likely moot) anyway, as this deck doesn't seem to be in the Sox' plans, and its debatable whether they would find it worthwhile. But that's not to say that it couldn't work.

How and why do you think the Cubs are funding their bleacher expansion?

Blueprint1
11-02-2005, 03:29 AM
I have been to several sell outs in the last few years, and sat in both the upper deck and lower deck. I can honestly say that I NEVER had to wait more than 5 min to use the bathrooms, and there are almost never all that big of lines. Then again, I am a male, and there are always much longer lines for the ladies' room.
However, that goes all to hell during Cubs games. For some reason (whatever could it be:rolleyes:), the beer lines are 5x longer than during a normal sell-out at the Cubs-Sox games I have gone to. Also, there are countless stooges crowding up the concourse. Honestly, there are huge groups of people standing at the back of the concourse (all around the park, not just in the outfield), taking up lots of space. The groups are usually right by the beer stands, so they dont have to go a grueling 3 minutes without a beer in their hands.
As for the other games, I think the facilities are fine. It is hard to assess how the HR porch would effect it because we dont know where it would be built, how many people it would hold, etc. I am envisioning something at around the same height as the FUNdamentals area. They would build bathrooms behind the seating, with a mini concourse. I believe a set of bathrooms on each end would do just fine for 3k people, but I am not a planner, so it is just a guess. The concourse would have stairs down to the outfield concourse on the left, and to the three levels on the right. As part of the HR porch, they would likely redo and extend the entrance in the RF corner, allowing for a quicker entrance and exit. It is not implausible.

I don't know what park your going to but the lines for the mens room are about 10X as long at the Cell than the ladies rooms. that is because there are more men at the games. There are the same amount of bathrooms. During the playoffs bathroom lines were crazy for the mens rooms and didn't exist for the womens rooms.

SOXfnNlansing
11-02-2005, 05:41 AM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle. WSJ is that you?:rolleyes:

SOXfnNlansing
11-02-2005, 05:52 AM
Touche!:welcome:

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 10:55 AM
It is not illegal for the Sox organization to spend money. Investments can improve your company's value. If the new deck brings in revenue, it may well be a very profitable investment for the Sox. Would it? I don't know, that's for the team to assess.

If done correctly it might improve the atmosphere of the park and make it more aesthetically pleasing and possibly more of a "destination." That might translate to higher attendance and more profits, again that's for the Sox to assess.

This is all a hypothetical (and most likely moot) anyway, as this deck doesn't seem to be in the Sox' plans, and its debatable whether they would find it worthwhile. But that's not to say that it couldn't work.

How and why do you think the Cubs are funding their bleacher expansion?Would you rather see them spend their profits on building another deck or on payroll? That's really the choice you're suggesting. An new deck would probably cost $40M. Where is this money going to come from? Ultimately it has to come from the same revenue stream that pays for everything else - including player salaries.

Unlike the Cubs, the White Sox do not own the park. When the Cubs put money into renovations, it's a capital investment, as they get the increased value. It's like adding a room onto your house. You get the benefit of the increased value. Plus, they have the Tribune Co. bankrolling them. If the Sox were to do the same, they don't get the same favorable tax treatment as it can't be a capital investment to something they don't own, and they get none of the increased value. When the Tribune Co. eventually sells the Cubs, that money spent comes back to them in increased value. If/when the Sox owners sell, they get none of that money back because they don't own the stadium.

DenverSock
11-02-2005, 11:29 AM
Would you rather see them spend their profits on building another deck or on payroll? That's really the choice you're suggesting. An new deck would probably cost $40M. Where is this money going to come from? Ultimately it has to come from the same revenue stream that pays for everything else - including player salaries.

Unlike the Cubs, the White Sox do not own the park. When the Cubs put money into renovations, it's a capital investment, as they get the increased value. It's like adding a room onto your house. You get the benefit of the increased value. Plus, they have the Tribune Co. bankrolling them. If the Sox were to do the same, they don't get the same favorable tax treatment as it can't be a capital investment to something they don't own, and they get none of the increased value. When the Tribune Co. eventually sells the Cubs, that money spent comes back to them in increased value. If/when the Sox owners sell, they get none of that money back because they don't own the stadium.

As the Sox don't own the park, they should not pay for improvements. They should negotiate with the Stadium authorities, who should build them in anticipation of increased revenue from the rental of the stadium. I believe the city of Chicago owns the stadium, and if not, the state of Illinois. Nevertheless any increase in asset value should accrue to the owner of the park itself. In reality, a municipal asset is only worth whatever revenue streams it generates, plus whatever premiums the community puts on it and pays for in the form of tax subsidies, etc.. Often times it is considered worthwhile to subsidise something rather than lose it to St. Petersburg, Florida for example, because it's something which strengthens community identity. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 11:51 AM
As the Sox don't own the park, they should not pay for improvements. They should negotiate with the Stadium authorities, who should build them in anticipation of increased revenue from the rental of the stadium. I believe the city of Chicago owns the stadium, and if not, the state of Illinois. Nevertheless any increase in asset value should accrue to the owner of the park itself. In reality, a municipal asset is only worth whatever revenue streams it generates, plus whatever premiums the community puts on it and pays for in the form of tax subsidies, etc.. Often times it is considered worthwhile to subsidise something rather than lose it to St. Petersburg, Florida for example, because it's something which strengthens community identity. :rolleyes::rolleyes:The park is formally owned by ISFA. They're answerable to the legislature. I don't think they could float bonds to pay for improvements without legislative approval. Fat chance.

DenverSock
11-02-2005, 12:13 PM
The park is formally owned by ISFA. They're answerable to the legislature. I don't think they could float bonds to pay for improvements without legislative approval. Fat chance.

I take it that ISFA stands for Illinois Sports Financing Authority, which corresponds to my memories of the city of Chicago and/or the state of Illinois owning the stadium. While you would need legislative authority to float bonds, perhaps the White Sox, if convinced of the need, could offer to pay for any needed improvemnts. In return they could ask for some sort of concessions like reduced rent, favorable tax treatments. (This assumes that ISFA is authorised by its charter oor whatever to negotiate without legislative approval. I can't be sure about this.) These could be the results of negotiations with ISFA and the White Sox management. Course, I'm not convinced that a "home run porch" is really worth it.

VenturaSoxFan23
11-02-2005, 12:38 PM
Where did the 1901 flag go? I know I saw it on opening day; it was over the scoreboard in LCF. (I'm pretty sure the 1906 one got taken down with the 2000 division title flag going up.)

They need to move the pitch count/speed counter higher or get rid of it altogether. If you're in the UD on the 1B side you can barely see it, and it seems like it doesn't work right half the time.
I agree on updating the out of town scoreboard better. If I didn't have a radio with me (it's a Walkman; I'm considerate with those around me), I'd be thinking the Phillies put up a 9-spot on the board in the 3rd - when, in fact, they'd score 2 in the 1st, 4 in the 2nd and 3 in the 3rd. When the game's slowing down, that's the best source of entertainment for me.
Otherwise, leave the park alone.

mdep524
11-02-2005, 12:59 PM
Would you rather see them spend their profits on building another deck or on payroll? That's really the choice you're suggesting. An new deck would probably cost $40M. Where is this money going to come from? Ultimately it has to come from the same revenue stream that pays for everything else - including player salaries.

Unlike the Cubs, the White Sox do not own the park. When the Cubs put money into renovations, it's a capital investment, as they get the increased value. It's like adding a room onto your house. You get the benefit of the increased value. Plus, they have the Tribune Co. bankrolling them. If the Sox were to do the same, they don't get the same favorable tax treatment as it can't be a capital investment to something they don't own, and they get none of the increased value. When the Tribune Co. eventually sells the Cubs, that money spent comes back to them in increased value. If/when the Sox owners sell, they get none of that money back because they don't own the stadium.If it can be shown that the new deck would increase revenue and profits, I don't see why legislation wouldn't give it the go ahead. Also, the Sox may not directly benefit of increased value the same way the Trib does with Wrigley, but filling up US Cellular, and improving the park's image certainly affects the Sox organization and increases it's value.

It all comes down to whether the addition would be profitable or not. The Sox wouldn't just pay for it out of their own pockets to look nice. Like any construction, if they believe they can invest X dollars and end up with revenue streams higher than X as a result, it will be a tenable idea.

steff
11-02-2005, 01:12 PM
It is not illegal for the Sox organization to spend money. Investments can improve your company's value. If the new deck brings in revenue, it may well be a very profitable investment for the Sox. Would it? I don't know, that's for the team to assess.

If done correctly it might improve the atmosphere of the park and make it more aesthetically pleasing and possibly more of a "destination." That might translate to higher attendance and more profits, again that's for the Sox to assess.

This is all a hypothetical (and most likely moot) anyway, as this deck doesn't seem to be in the Sox' plans, and its debatable whether they would find it worthwhile. But that's not to say that it couldn't work.

How and why do you think the Cubs are funding their bleacher expansion?


Wrigley is paying for it. Wrigley owns the Cubs and Wrigley Field. The ISA owns Comiskey Park... so yes, your post is moot since the Sox don't pay for structural changes.

Hitmen77
11-02-2005, 01:27 PM
Wrigley is paying for it. Wrigley owns the Cubs and Wrigley Field.

:?: I assume you meant the Tribune.

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 01:28 PM
If it can be shown that the new deck would increase revenue and profits, I don't see why legislation wouldn't give it the go ahead. Also, the Sox may not directly benefit of increased value the same way the Trib does with Wrigley, but filling up US Cellular, and improving the park's image certainly affects the Sox organization and increases it's value.

It all comes down to whether the addition would be profitable or not. The Sox wouldn't just pay for it out of their own pockets to look nice. Like any construction, if they believe they can invest X dollars and end up with revenue streams higher than X as a result, it will be a tenable idea.Just a quick back of the envelope calculation:

For a $40M initial investment, to pay it off in 5 yrs and assuming a 10% return on investment, they'd need to generate $10.5M a year in net revenues from that investment. If there were 5,000 seats in it, they would need to generate $2100 a year from each seat or $26 for each home game. To do that they'd have to sell the section out just about every game. They had 19 sellouts in 2005. Even if they doubled the number of sellouts, the extra seats would be empty more than half the year. (People moving there from other seats don't count as increased revenues.) Barring an enormous increase in demand, there's no way it would pay for itself in a reasonable time period.

DenverSock
11-02-2005, 01:34 PM
Just a quick back of the envelope calculation:

For a $40M initial investment, to pay it off in 5 yrs and assuming a 10% return on investment, they'd need to generate $10.5M a year in net revenues from that investment. If there were 5,000 seats in it, they would need to generate $2100 a year from each seat or $26 for each home game. To do that they'd have to sell the section out just about every game. They had 19 sellouts in 2005. Even if they doubled the number of sellouts, the extra seats would be empty more than half the year. (People moving there from other seats don't count as increased revenues.) Barring an enormous increase in demand, there's no way it would pay for itself in a reasonable time period.

A 5,000 seat section? :?: Sounds large to me. Not that I disagree with you but that I think your back of the envelope calculation is a bit optimistic.:rolleyes:

steff
11-02-2005, 01:37 PM
:?: I assume you meant the Tribune.



...sigh....

Yes.. I meant the Tribune.

mdep524
11-02-2005, 01:44 PM
Just a quick back of the envelope calculation:

For a $40M initial investment, to pay it off in 5 yrs and assuming a 10% return on investment, they'd need to generate $10.5M a year in net revenues from that investment. If there were 5,000 seats in it, they would need to generate $2100 a year from each seat or $26 for each home game. To do that they'd have to sell the section out just about every game. They had 19 sellouts in 2005. Even if they doubled the number of sellouts, the extra seats would be empty more than half the year. (People moving there from other seats don't count as increased revenues.) Barring an enormous increase in demand, there's no way it would pay for itself in a reasonable time period. If the whole project costs $40 mil, how much do you think a sponsor like Miller Lite would pay? Also, why would you consider 5 years a reasonable time period? The ballpark was a long life left, a longer time period could be feasible.

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 01:45 PM
A 5,000 seat section? :?: Sounds large to me. Not that I disagree with you but that I think your back of the envelope calculation is a bit optimistic.:rolleyes:It was intended that way. If the most optimistic estimates don't show it paying for itself, anything more realistic is going to look worse. Part of what makes this unfavorable is that the Sox don't own the stadium, so they get none of the tax breaks that would normally result from such a capital investment. (Someone more expert in tax matters can correct me if I'm wrong.) Also, if you own the stadium, it doesn't have to pay for itself, since you carry the value as an asset.

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 01:50 PM
If the whole project costs $40 mil, how much do you think a sponsor like Miller Lite would pay? Also, why would you consider 5 years a reasonable time period? The ballpark was a long life left, a longer time period could be feasible.I think a sponsorship is the only way this could possibly fly. How much they'd be willing to pay is anybody's guess. It's never going to work as a private investment for all the reasons I've stated. And there is no chance the legislature is going to approve bonds for expansion.

A 5 year payback is pretty standard. Extending it longer doesn't really make that much difference because future revenues are discounted for longer time periods, making them less valuable. For example, even if you assumed a 10 year payback, then net revenues required would only decrease to $6.5M a year.

DenverSock
11-02-2005, 01:58 PM
It was intended that way. If the most optimistic estimates don't show it paying for itself, anything more realistic is going to look worse. Part of what makes this unfavorable is that the Sox don't own the stadium, so they get none of the tax breaks that would normally result from such a capital investment. (Someone more expert in tax matters can correct me if I'm wrong.) Also, if you own the stadium, it doesn't have to pay for itself, since you carry the value as an asset.
You're right about the taxes. Since this is a government entity the only tax implications should be what the White Sox would pay to gain this expansion. They could probably write it off as a business expense, depending on the exact method of financing used.

BTW, I understood what you were doing, it was my subtle way of emphasizing our argument. We are left with the products of our history, viz. the advantages and disadvantages of not owning your own ballpark.

Not a :duel:

Norberto7
11-02-2005, 02:34 PM
All economical arguments aside, I just don't see how the thing would look good. If it was a true "home run porch", it would have to jut out off of the upper deck and destroy the symmetry of USCF, which, like it or not, is what now makes it unique. Fundamentals is set back far enough not to offend the symmetrical leanings of the stadium as a whole. So if you set it back, then, well...those seats would kinda suck, wouldn't they? :?: I guess it would be a home run porch, provided the proposed rule changes regarding metal bats and golf balls get passed.

mdep524
11-02-2005, 03:07 PM
All economical arguments aside, I just don't see how the thing would look good. If it was a true "home run porch", it would have to jut out off of the upper deck and destroy the symmetry of USCF, which, like it or not, is what now makes it unique. Fundamentals is set back far enough not to offend the symmetrical leanings of the stadium as a whole. So if you set it back, then, well...those seats would kinda suck, wouldn't they? :?: I guess it would be a home run porch, provided the proposed rule changes regarding metal bats and golf balls get passed. Why would the seats suck if they were set back? Just because homeruns don't land in them? :?: The name "homerun porch" is very misleading and entirely inaccurate to what we are discussing. Why everyone calls it a "homerun porch" is beyond me, as most people agree it would be nicer if the seats were set back like the Fundamentals deck. Also, building a deck out there would add to the symmetry of the park, balancing out the Fundamentals deck in leftfield.

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 03:13 PM
Why would the seats suck if they were set back? Just because homeruns don't land in them? :?: The name "homerun porch" is very misleading and entirely inaccurate to what we are discussing. Why everyone calls it a "homerun porch" is beyond me, as most people agree it would be nicer if the seats were set back like the Fundamentals deck. Also, building a deck out there would add to the symmetry of the park, balancing out the Fundamentals deck in leftfield.Face facts, people. They're not going to build it. You're arguing over where they're not going to build it and how it's not going to look after they don't build it.

DenverSock
11-02-2005, 03:17 PM
:rolling: Face facts, people. They're not going to build it. You're arguing over where they're not going to build it and how it's not going to look after they don't build it.:rolling: :roflmao: :rolling:

Sad
11-02-2005, 03:19 PM
Face facts, people. They're not going to build it. You're arguing over where they're not going to build it and how it's not going to look after they don't build it.

:kneeslap: guess you told them!

mdep524
11-02-2005, 03:26 PM
Face facts, people. They're not going to build it. You're arguing over where they're not going to build it and how it's not going to look after they don't build it. I said myself I don't ever see it happening. Doesn't mean we can't discuss it in a thread about Renovations though. :smile:

Norberto7
11-02-2005, 03:47 PM
Face facts, people. They're not going to build it. You're arguing over where they're not going to build it and how it's not going to look after they don't build it.

So sorry! I think most of us realize this isn't going to happen. So what? It's still an interesting discussion with interesting ideas. Plus, it gives you a chance to think of more witty posts bringing us back to reality.

ChiWavDave
11-02-2005, 04:45 PM
It was intended that way. If the most optimistic estimates don't show it paying for itself, anything more realistic is going to look worse. Part of what makes this unfavorable is that the Sox don't own the stadium, so they get none of the tax breaks that would normally result from such a capital investment. (Someone more expert in tax matters can correct me if I'm wrong.) Also, if you own the stadium, it doesn't have to pay for itself, since you carry the value as an asset.

Thats not 100% accurate. There are several and significant tax break for what would be considered a "leasehold" improvement, regardless of whether the WhiteSox owned the park or not. By improving the real estate of their "landlord" they are entitled to the tax benefits of amortizing the "improvement" expense over 30 years I believe (don't quote me on that I am not an accountant or tax attorney) which would/could save the company mucho dinero against taxes on current and future profits...

dickallen15
11-02-2005, 05:20 PM
I think the original deck that was proposed would have held between 2000 and 2500. I think $40 million estimation in this thread is about double what they estimated it to cost. If there is no more money left from US Cellular which it would appear there is not, at least not that kind of money, the only way it would be built is if the ISFA wanted to spend the money, (IIRC they do get some money every year for upkeep and I think it went up significantly when they built Soldier Field. I don't know if that was just for a few years or for a long time) or if the White Sox found a sponsor to kick in the dough. I think it eventually could be built, but probably would take more than a year or 2 of a scarcity of available tickets for it to happen.

dickallen15
11-02-2005, 05:27 PM
For next year, I hope the team does something to improve basic scoreboard information visibility. Sitting in seats down the 3rd base line, you can't see the line score or the R-H-E totals for the game. This affects alot of seats at the park and it's inexcusable that so many fans can't see the basic game totals.

My preference would be for them to swap the b&w scoreboard with the billboard next to it so that everyone can see this scoreboard. If this is too expensive to do, then I hope the team at least sticks up a R-H-E and line score total somewhere in the park that is visible to 3rd base side fans.

Other than that, I hope they can afford someday to add a RF "not-a-HR-porch" to increase seating availability. They had 24 sellouts (counting 6 postseason) this year and I expect they'll have more next year.

This scoreboard improvement is vital. A huge percentage of the park has difficult access to the only board that constantly shows runs hits and errors on it. Occassionally they flash it in RF. If they don't want to use the ribbon boards to put stats and everything else on it, they could at least hang a couple of auxilary boards on the facade of the club level. I think the out of town board is going to be replaced pretty soon. I recall reading they didn't replace it when they replaced the others a couple of years ago because they were going to have to move it if the RF porch was built.

OfficerKarkovice
11-02-2005, 09:32 PM
I know that they will replace all of the blue seats next year, but has anyone heard word of anything else in the works?

That's actually not entirely true. Only a portion of the blue seats will be changed to green during the offseason. The rest will be converted at a later date.

Ol' No. 2
11-02-2005, 09:34 PM
That's actually not entirely true. Only a portion of the blue seats will be changed to green during the offseason. The rest will be converted at a later date.Do you have a source for that? It was also my understanding that all the seats would be converted by opening day 2006.

DenverSock
11-03-2005, 12:19 AM
So sorry! I think most of us realize this isn't going to happen. So what? It's still an interesting discussion with interesting ideas. Plus, it gives you a chance to think of more witty posts bringing us back to reality.

Sort of like science fiction.:D: :D:

SoxFan64
11-03-2005, 12:28 PM
That's actually not entirely true. Only a portion of the blue seats will be changed to green during the offseason. The rest will be converted at a later date.

What's the source of your information. I just looked at the Sox web site and this is what it says:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/ballpark/index.jsp


If you have better information please share.

steff
11-03-2005, 01:06 PM
That's actually not entirely true. Only a portion of the blue seats will be changed to green during the offseason. The rest will be converted at a later date.


Buzzzzzzzzz..

DenverSock
11-03-2005, 05:35 PM
Please explain what the big deal is about the new green seats. Is it just the color? Are they more comfortable? I've only been to the new Comiskey/USCF only once. I sat behind home plate and I seem to remember the seats being blue. I definitely would not swear to this. This was last year, the first home game against the Twinkies after the All-Star break.

russ99
11-03-2005, 05:41 PM
The fundamentals deck looks very nice in my opinion. I am looking forward to the green seats as well. Hell we are WORLD CHAMPS, I have absolutely no complaints regarding the Sox!

Fundamentals Deck is a great addition. My friends' kid really had a lot of fun there, and the view from the deck is spectacular.

Now only if they'd do something similar in right field for adults... :)

russ99
11-03-2005, 05:43 PM
Please explain what the big deal is about the new green seats. Is it just the color? Are they more comfortable? I've only been to the new Comiskey/USCF only once. I sat behind home plate and I seem to remember the seats being blue. I definitely would not swear to this. This was last year, the first home game against the Twinkies after the All-Star break.




They're going back to green seats because that's the color they were at Old Comiskey. The blue seats are too easily visible when seats are empty - although there won't be too many of those next season! :)

RibbieRubarb
11-03-2005, 05:44 PM
This encapsulates my opinion on just about everything right now!! I wouldn't care if Ribbie and Rhubarb showed up again. WE'RE WORLD CHAMPS BABY!!!:bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

(ala Laverne & Shirley) HELLO!

DenverSock
11-03-2005, 05:47 PM
They're going back to green seats because that's the color they were at Old Comiskey. The blue seats are too easily visible when seats are empty - although there won't be too many of those next season! :)

One, I thank you. Two, yes I remeber the old green, wooden seats of Comiskey very well, and I suppose any thing which brings back the ambience of the World's Greatest Baseball Palace is a good thing.:)

Were the blue seats wearing out?

cheeses_h_rice
11-03-2005, 05:48 PM
Please explain what the big deal is about the new green seats. Is it just the color? Are they more comfortable? I've only been to the new Comiskey/USCF only once. I sat behind home plate and I seem to remember the seats being blue. I definitely would not swear to this. This was last year, the first home game against the Twinkies after the All-Star break.




Aside from the free Ipod, HDTV feed of the game, complimentary booze and snacks, the green seats are exactly the same as the blue ones except for the color.

steff
11-03-2005, 05:59 PM
Were the blue seats wearing out?


Pretty much. The replacement was put on the "to do" list in '02. They are 14 years old.

DenverSock
11-03-2005, 06:00 PM
Aside from the free Ipod, HDTV feed of the game, complimentary booze and snacks, the green seats are exactly the same as the blue ones except for the color.

What no XM radio?

PaleHoseGeorge
11-03-2005, 06:45 PM
I wouldn't care if Ribbie and Rhubarb showed up again.

Now that we're world champs, I sort of miss the furry little scamps. No need to worry anymore about looking bush league.

I think the Sox should have team mascot day inviting everyone's mascot to a Sunday afternoon game for the kids. Pro mascots, college mascots, and everyone else's mascot, too. That would be wild. They could haul a giant birthday cake out behind second base and have Ribbie & Roobarb pop out as surprise guests of honor. Then everyone could high-five one another... Purdue Pete and Notre Dame's leprechaun... Billy Marlin... Brutus the Buckeye... Benny the Bull... the San Francisco crab... etc. etc.

Hell, I'd pay money for that.
:cool:

OfficerKarkovice
11-03-2005, 07:28 PM
Buzzzzzzzzz..

Well I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean but I guess we can just wait and see what color the seats all are on opening day.

JohnBasedowYoda
11-03-2005, 08:05 PM
I said myself I don't ever see it happening. Doesn't mean we can't discuss it in a thread about Renovations though. :smile:

just edit all the posts so they're in deep pink then Ol' No. 2 will be cool with it

Lip Man 1
11-03-2005, 08:25 PM
Actually for a long period of time the seats at the original Comiskey Park were painted sky blue. In the early 60's the seats were painted different colors reflecting the price structure. Yellow, blue and red.

During Bill Veeck's second ownership sections of the lower left and right field bleachers were painted red for the first ten rows since they were priced higher and sections of the left and right field upper deck were a multicolored hodge podge. Why? I have absolutely no idea.

Lip

jabrch
11-03-2005, 08:38 PM
Now that we're world champs, I sort of miss the furry little scamps. No need to worry anymore about looking bush league.

I think the Sox should have team mascot day inviting everyone's mascot to a Sunday afternoon game for the kids. Pro mascots, college mascots, and everyone else's mascot, too. That would be wild. They could haul a giant birthday cake out behind second base and have Ribbie & Roobarb pop out as surprise guests of honor. Then everyone could high-five one another... Purdue Pete and Notre Dame's leprechaun... Billy Marlin... Brutus the Buckeye... Benny the Bull... the San Francisco crab... etc. etc.

Hell, I'd pay money for that.
:cool:

PHG, the Bears have a MascotBowl once a year. The best of the best, from all of Chicago's teams and the other NFL teams play in a scrimmage during halftime. It is - PRICELESS. Last year, Waldo the White Sox Wolf (stupid idea) destroyed Ragnar the Viking. It was - awesome. Whomever was in the Waldo costume was taking it a bit too serious.

robertks61
11-03-2005, 09:13 PM
a multicolored hodge podge.

I believe Veeck wanted to see if it looked like fans where there when the camera followed a home run going by the seats fast. I remember hearing that in my younger days.

SoxFan64
11-04-2005, 12:35 AM
I think the Sox should have team mascot day inviting everyone's mascot to a Sunday afternoon game for the kids. Pro mascots, college mascots, and everyone else's mascot, too. That would be wild. They could haul a giant birthday cake out behind second base and have Ribbie & Roobarb pop out as surprise guests of honor. Then everyone could high-five one another... Purdue Pete and Notre Dame's leprechaun... Billy Marlin... Brutus the Buckeye... Benny the Bull... the San Francisco crab... etc. etc.

Hell, I'd pay money for that.
:cool:

Even better PHG, how about a SoxMascot Day. All the official and unofficial Mascots play a game vs. the Sox players kids on Father's Day.

We could have Ribbie and Roobarb, the lil' drummer boy from the '77 season, the hooter, some dressed up as Andy, and all the unofficial masocots from this year's poll -- the Get Up Guy, M&M, 35th Street Drummer.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=58391&highlight=unofficial+mascot

Now that I would pay to see.

:supernana::supernana::supernana:

hellenicsoxfan
11-04-2005, 06:17 AM
PHG, the Bears have a MascotBowl once a year. The best of the best, from all of Chicago's teams and the other NFL teams play in a scrimmage during halftime. It is - PRICELESS. Last year, Waldo the White Sox Wolf (stupid idea) destroyed Ragnar the Viking. It was - awesome. Whomever was in the Waldo costume was taking it a bit too serious.

Was Ronnie Woo Woo there representing the cubs? I can just picture Southpaw clotheslining the little freak.

Fenway
11-04-2005, 10:34 AM
I have been told that the White Sox will move the matrix scoreboard in left to where the present out of town scoreboard is and they will install out of town boards similar to the new ones in Cleveland and Toronto.

Randar68
11-04-2005, 10:42 AM
I have been told that the White Sox will move the matrix scoreboard in left to where the present out of town scoreboard is and they will install out of town boards similar to the new ones in Cleveland and Toronto.

That would be a very good change for the matrix scoreboard. I'm not sure where they'd be putting the Out-of-town scoreboard. In Cleveland isn't it ON the wall in LF? Where is it in Toronto again? Any idea where they would put that scoreboard so it is visible to everyone?

anewman35
11-04-2005, 10:55 AM
That would be a very good change for the matrix scoreboard. I'm not sure where they'd be putting the Out-of-town scoreboard. In Cleveland isn't it ON the wall in LF? Where is it in Toronto again?

It's on the wall in Toronto, too, in right-center IIRC (although it might be in left-center too).

skobabe8
11-04-2005, 10:57 AM
I have been told that the White Sox will move the matrix scoreboard in left to where the present out of town scoreboard is and they will install out of town boards similar to the new ones in Cleveland and Toronto.

Where did you hear this from? I'd like to see the center field board overhauled. The billboards on either side of the center field scoreboard can be removed, and those ads could be placed on the center field scoreboard. Then there would be enough room to add more game info, and reclaim something from the past--having one of the biggest scoreboards in baseball.

TomBradley72
11-04-2005, 11:30 AM
Where did you hear this from? I'd like to see the center field board overhauled. The billboards on either side of the center field scoreboard can be removed, and those ads could be placed on the center field scoreboard. Then there would be enough room to add more game info, and reclaim something from the past--having one of the biggest scoreboards in baseball.

Jacobs Field scoreboard is a good example of this approach...

Fenway
11-04-2005, 11:35 AM
Jacobs Field scoreboard is a good example of this approach...

http://image03.webshots.com/3/4/92/11/20349211jSZblHAtDk_ph.jpg (http://community.webshots.com/photo/20349051/20349211jSZblHAtDk#)

skobabe8
11-04-2005, 11:38 AM
Jacobs Field scoreboard is a good example of this approach...

Right. The Jake, and even something like Citizens Bank Park in Philly comes to mind where the ads light up at night.

http://www.printroom.com/pro/IndiansFanPhoto/images/fanfoto_page.jpg



http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/phi/images/ballpark/im_scoreboard_250x373.jpg

Incorporate the billboards onto a new, larger scoreboard. You keep the billboard revenue, and improve aesthetics to the park itself.

Fenway
11-04-2005, 11:45 AM
I would like to see boards like this one at Fenway at all parks. Up to date batter/pitcher info

http://web.mit.edu/smalpert/www/fenway_park/22.jpg

antitwins13
11-04-2005, 12:03 PM
This thread is starting to suck. Nobody wants a "home-run porch"

Hitmen77
11-04-2005, 12:13 PM
This thread is starting to suck. Nobody wants a "home-run porch"

:?: We've been discussing scoreboard improvements today, not the HR porch.

Randar68
11-04-2005, 12:21 PM
This thread is starting to suck. Nobody wants a "home-run porch"

Earth to Iowa...

skobabe8
11-04-2005, 03:45 PM
Not sure if anyone has seen this....


I remember some renderings being discovered on the HKS website of the "home run porch" in right field a while back. Those renderings were taken off of the site a short while after. Well, I looked on the website today, and there is still a video that shows what it would have looked like. It flies around the stadium virtually and shows the proposed Fundamentals deck in left and the seating in right. I've never seen it before until today. Check it out.

http://www.hksinc.com/

After clicking on the link, click "PORTFOLIO"

Then click "VISUALIZATION"

Then click "US CELLULAR FIELD RENOVATIONS"

Then click beside the video camera underneath the picture "VIDEO A"


Its the exact same size and shape as the fundamentals deck, except its a section of seating.

D. TODD
11-04-2005, 03:52 PM
Not sure if anyone has seen this....


I remember some renderings being discovered on the HKS website of the "home run porch" in right field a while back. Those renderings were taken off of the site a short while after. Well, I looked on the website today, and there is still a video that shows what it would have looked like. It flies around the stadium virtually and shows the proposed Fundamentals deck in left and the seating in right. I've never seen it before until today. Check it out.

http://www.hksinc.com/

After clicking on the link, click "PORTFOLIO"

Then click "VISUALIZATION"

Then click "US CELLULAR FIELD RENOVATIONS"

Then click beside the video camera underneath the picture "VIDEO A"


Its the exact same size and shape as the fundamentals deck, except its a section of seating. Thanks, that is the first time I've seen it. It doesn't sound like the hr. porch is still in the plans, but I do like how it looked on that model. Who knows maybe they will get it done after all.

Gosox1917
11-04-2005, 04:26 PM
I submitted this little photoshop rendering last year during the big renovations thread so here it is again. Not really a HR porch in right but the upper deck extends to the right field similar to Jacobs Field. I'm sure it's too much money to have a project of this size done at this point but hell I thought it was neat lookin anyway.

TheOldRoman
11-04-2005, 04:44 PM
Not sure if anyone has seen this....


I remember some renderings being discovered on the HKS website of the "home run porch" in right field a while back. Those renderings were taken off of the site a short while after. Well, I looked on the website today, and there is still a video that shows what it would have looked like. It flies around the stadium virtually and shows the proposed Fundamentals deck in left and the seating in right. I've never seen it before until today. Check it out.

http://www.hksinc.com/

After clicking on the link, click "PORTFOLIO"

Then click "VISUALIZATION"

Then click "US CELLULAR FIELD RENOVATIONS"

Then click beside the video camera underneath the picture "VIDEO A"


Its the exact same size and shape as the fundamentals deck, except its a section of seating.
Great find!! This is by far the best view we have had of the proposed "home run landing". It doesn't look too complex. It looks like it wouldn't hold any more than 1000 people. If it were to be done (and it doesn't look like it would be as hard or expensive as we thought), it would be done more for aesthetic reasons than to increase capacity and ticket sales.
I think they will eventually do something in the right field corner, even if it doesn't involve adding more seats. I did't really like the design of that porch because it was exactly like the FUNdamentals area. We want to decrease the symmetry in the park, not increase it.

tick53
11-04-2005, 07:34 PM
I think the park is already great. Personally I don't even think the blue seats are bad at all. I wish they kept them, but oh well. I know everyone is so hell bent on green seats.

As a fan who lives about 90 miles from the beloved South Side, I can only attend 5 or 6 games a year. This leaves me to have to viddy the remaining 156
games on Comcast, WGN and my trusty antenna tower for WCIU.

It seems now with the green outfield wall, you can catch the flight of the ball
better and it isn't as bright as the awful blue backdrop was (especially day games)

Green is the color all ballparks should be. It will look great along with the new
flags. As for the Fundamentals, I like it. It has an old retro look to it. Besides,
they don't have anything like it on the north side.

With me in attendance for 2005 :bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :bandance: :angry: (yankees)

Red Barchetta
11-04-2005, 07:57 PM
Great find!! This is by far the best view we have had of the proposed "home run landing". It doesn't look too complex. It looks like it wouldn't hold any more than 1000 people. If it were to be done (and it doesn't look like it would be as hard or expensive as we thought), it would be done more for aesthetic reasons than to increase capacity and ticket sales.
I think they will eventually do something in the right field corner, even if it doesn't involve adding more seats. I did't really like the design of that porch because it was exactly like the FUNdamentals area. We want to decrease the symmetry in the park, not increase it.

I agree. After viewing the video, the seating looks very bland. I would prefer either (a) a full right field upper deck that hangs over the fence, similar to the Rangers ballpark in Arlington or (b) a completely different concept such as Hooters-type restaurant sponsorship where it is more of a outdoor beer garden geared towards adults, similar to Atlanta's ballpark. I think the latter concept would work better because it could tie into the existing bullpen sports bar and stadium club theme for right field. It might not even cost the ISA if a full sponsorship could be secured.

...oh, and keep bricking over any exposed concrete!

skobabe8
11-05-2005, 12:35 AM
Great find!! This is by far the best view we have had of the proposed "home run landing". It doesn't look too complex. It looks like it wouldn't hold any more than 1000 people. If it were to be done (and it doesn't look like it would be as hard or expensive as we thought), it would be done more for aesthetic reasons than to increase capacity and ticket sales.
I think they will eventually do something in the right field corner, even if it doesn't involve adding more seats. I did't really like the design of that porch because it was exactly like the FUNdamentals area. We want to decrease the symmetry in the park, not increase it.

I thought the same thing about the design. Like I said, it looks EXACTLY like the Fundamentals deck in left, which makes it too symmetrical. I thought those plans were completely scrapped and couldnt believe it was still up on their website!

C-Dawg
11-05-2005, 02:45 PM
I was at the Cell's Gift Shop today and noticed a whole section of blue seats removed from behind the Sox' dugout, stretching all the way up to the concourse. Guess they're finally getting a little progress going!

skipcover
11-05-2005, 03:29 PM
Great find!! This is by far the best view we have had of the proposed "home run landing". It doesn't look too complex. It looks like it wouldn't hold any more than 1000 people. If it were to be done (and it doesn't look like it would be as hard or expensive as we thought), it would be done more for aesthetic reasons than to increase capacity and ticket sales.
I think they will eventually do something in the right field corner, even if it doesn't involve adding more seats. I did't really like the design of that porch because it was exactly like the FUNdamentals area. We want to decrease the symmetry in the park, not increase it.

I agree that symmetry should be avoided going forward. Looking at that video though, I can't understand why someone would call that a home run porch. It extends over the outfield concourse, which if my memory serves me correct, you can count on one hand the # of homeruns hit to that concourse during the life of this ballpark. The "Right Field Deck" is still a good idea, but it should be marketed similar to the Miller Lite Party Deck at Soldier Field...a cool place to have a couple beers, but the tickets better be free or cheap!

mdep524
11-06-2005, 12:08 PM
Looking at that video though, I can't understand why someone would call that a home run porch. It extends over the outfield concourse, which if my memory serves me correct, you can count on one hand the # of homeruns hit to that concourse during the life of this ballpark. The "Right Field Deck" is still a good idea, but it should be marketed similar to the Miller Lite Party Deck at Soldier Field...a cool place to have a couple beers, but the tickets better be free or cheap! Don't be fooled by the lazy and inaccurate label. The only reason anyone would ever call that a "homerun porch" is if they are ignorant of the facts.

OfficerKarkovice
11-07-2005, 07:26 PM
I was at the Cell's Gift Shop today and noticed a whole section of blue seats removed from behind the Sox' dugout, stretching all the way up to the concourse. Guess they're finally getting a little progress going!

..........and that is the extent on both baselines to which they will be changed by Opening Day 2006.

Joosh
11-07-2005, 09:25 PM
..........and that is the extent on both baselines to which they will be changed by Opening Day 2006.

And where are you getting your sources for your information.

Hitmen77
12-04-2005, 06:12 PM
I wasn't sure where to post this, so I thought it might fit under this thread:

For years I have noticed that a number of skybox sections down the line at The Cell were never completed (i'm assuming due to lack of interested customers). Now that the Sox have won the World Series, does anyone know if this will drive up demand for skybox sales - meaning the Sox will finally complete and sell the unused skybox sections (from which they can further increase their revenues)?

batmanZoSo
12-04-2005, 07:02 PM
Did they use to have a 1906 champs flag? I know they don't have one now, and I wish they would put one up.

I don't know if it was mentioned anywhere and this thread is too big to look through, but I hope they do a nice job boasting the 2005 WS on the outfield wall. They put up an extremely bland sign for the 2000 ALC title. They did in left center then, but obviously that space is taken. And right field is all chain link. I wonder where they could do something like that.

batmanZoSo
12-04-2005, 07:05 PM
Where did you hear this from? I'd like to see the center field board overhauled. The billboards on either side of the center field scoreboard can be removed, and those ads could be placed on the center field scoreboard. Then there would be enough room to add more game info, and reclaim something from the past--having one of the biggest scoreboards in baseball.

I'm sure they could be clever and come up with nicer looking ways to make the same amount of money off advertising. I cannot stand the billboards surrounding the outfield like that. They need to open the park up.

ilsox7
12-04-2005, 07:05 PM
I don't know if it was mentioned anywhere and this thread is too big to look through, but I hope they do a nice job boasting the 2005 WS on the outfield wall. They put up an extremely bland sign for the 2000 ALC title. They did in left center then, but obviously that space is taken. And right field is all chain link. I wonder where they could do something like that.

I hear they are gonna put a podium in center field (in play of course) and encase the Trophy in there for the year.

lths06
12-04-2005, 07:12 PM
I hear they are gonna put a podium in center field (in play of course) and encase the Trophy in there for the year.:tealpolice:

teal = sarcastic:tongue:

ilsox7
12-04-2005, 07:16 PM
:tealpolice:

teal = sarcastic:tongue:

Obvious sarcasm should be immune. :cool:

chisoxmike
12-04-2005, 07:18 PM
I don't know if it was mentioned anywhere and this thread is too big to look through, but I hope they do a nice job boasting the 2005 WS on the outfield wall. They put up an extremely bland sign for the 2000 ALC title. They did in left center then, but obviously that space is taken. And right field is all chain link. I wonder where they could do something like that.
Yeah, I remember that 2000 Central Divison Title "thing" they put up. It was pathetic.

They could take out those damn "Pinoneer" ads out of center and do something toward right center field. The only problem is the patio party and the bullpen sports bar are all out in right.

Lprof
12-04-2005, 09:05 PM
I think the park is a really comfortable, fun place to be, and the green seats will bring back fond memories of old Comiskey(except for Tito Landrum's homer). I am mystified why the park keeps getting such a bad rap, at least now that the muti-year renovations have been done. It may not look as "retro" as the bunch of recently built parks, but by now so many have done that that it is becoming old hat. I suppose I concede that I probably would prefer a little more of that, but on balance, the park contributes to a first rate experience.

Elvisfan1977
12-04-2005, 11:50 PM
[QUOTE=antitwins13]The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.[/QUO

I think the Fundementals Deck adds a nice aesthetic to the park.

PKalltheway
12-05-2005, 12:45 AM
Yeah, I remember that 2000 Central Divison Title "thing" they put up. It was pathetic.

They could take out those damn "Pinoneer" ads out of center and do something toward right center field. The only problem is the patio party and the bullpen sports bar are all out in right.

You could put it somewhere in center field, either on the wall or on the batter's eye

RealMenWearBlack
12-05-2005, 02:44 AM
You could put it somewhere in center field, either on the wall or on the batter's eye

Wouldn't having something on the batter's eye be somewhat distracting to batters? :?:

getonbckthr
12-05-2005, 02:54 AM
Here's a crazy idea. I wish there was some way for right before Thunderstruck hits, and right before the fireworks after a win or HR that we could get the illusion of a lightning bolt going from the foul poles to the scoreboard. Kind of like the lightning bolt lit the fireworks.

CorkNKerrys
12-05-2005, 03:08 AM
[QUOTE=I think the Fundementals Deck adds a nice aesthetic to the park.[/QUOTE]


The Place needs rust. It needs to look lived in a little more instead of like the Salt Lake City Airport.

Hangar18
12-05-2005, 10:38 AM
I dont understand where everyone thinks that Green Seats and Brick are exclusive to that other team 8 miles north. If we want to look like Wrigley, put up more Chain Link Fence around the concourses and outside

But seriously, if they want to be like us, they should put a restaurant/bar with a view of the field. The Cubs have COPIED BLATANTLY a ton of things from the WHITE SOX, and somehow are still being credited with being the innovators (remember when some stupid ESPN writer credited the Cubs with the names on the uniforms?)

The restaurant thing the Cubs are doing is just another example of them copying us with our Bullpen Bar thing

anewman35
12-05-2005, 10:46 AM
The restaurant thing the Cubs are doing is just another example of them copying us with our Bullpen Bar thing



Many many parks have restaurant things, many many parks had them before we did, and the restaurant thing the Cubs are putting in is in no way like the Bullpen Bar (if anything, it's more like the Fan Deck, but it's not really like that either). Why must everything be about the Cubs with you?

Hangar18
12-05-2005, 10:53 AM
Many many parks have restaurant things, many many parks had them before we did, and the restaurant thing the Cubs are putting in is in no way like the Bullpen Bar (if anything, it's more like the Fan Deck, but it's not really like that either). Why must everything be about the Cubs with you?

Recent media report made it sound like the new Cubs restaurant in CF will the most unique thing in Chicago Sports .......

Hangar18
12-05-2005, 10:55 AM
Many many parks have restaurant things, many many parks had them before we did.................

Are you sure about that? Even BEFORE our BullPen BBQ/Bar thing in the LF and RF areas of the OLD COMISKEY ??

anewman35
12-05-2005, 11:04 AM
Recent media report made it sound like the new Cubs restaurant in CF will the most unique thing in Chicago Sports .......

It's new, so it's a big deal. The fan deck was a big deal when it was new, too, but now it's not so people take it for granted. Also, no offense, but unless you can show me that somebody actually said "it will be the most unique thing in Chicago Sports", I'm going to have to assume that it's something you just heard because you assume everything is pro-Cubs anti-Sox. We're White Sox fans, so if the Cubs want to build some sort of restaurant in center field, who cares? It's not like they stole the idea from the Cell, restaurants with a view of the field are a pretty standard part of new or renovated ballparks these days.

anewman35
12-05-2005, 11:09 AM
Are you sure about that? Even BEFORE our BullPen BBQ/Bar thing in the LF and RF areas of the OLD COMISKEY ??

If you're going to go all the way back to that, then, no, I'm not sure. But are you REALLY saying the Cubs are copying an idea from like 25 years ago (not sure when exactly they put those areas in the old park)? If you're going to say that, then you have to say the Sox stole the idea of having ivy inside a ballpark from the Cubs.

One final thought: you say the Cubs copy all sorts of stuff from the White Sox. Do you give them any credit for being one of the few teams not to copy the whole exploding scoreboard/fireworks thing that the White Sox are generally credited with inventing?

Qdiddy
12-05-2005, 12:26 PM
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't old Comiskey have Ivy waaay back and Bill Veeck was the one who planted it at Wrigley, so The infamous "Ivy" came from the Sox first. We didn't copy them, they copied us agan... Maybe I'm wrong though.

anewman35
12-05-2005, 12:36 PM
The team that would become the Cubs started in Chicago in the late 1800s, and the White Sox didn't come to Chicago until 1901. Therefore, the White Sox TOTALLY COPIED the concept of playing baseball in Chicago from the Cubs! OMG! Better not let any Cubs fans find out or we'll never hear the end of it!

I don't get this obsession with who's copying whom or whatever. They're both baseball teams with baseball stadiums, and they have some features in common, like any two baseball stadiums do. And if the Cubs did copy something, so what? Look at it as a homage - they thought it was a great idea and wanted to do it themselves.

mdep524
12-05-2005, 12:43 PM
Here's a crazy idea. I wish there was some way for right before Thunderstruck hits, and right before the fireworks after a win or HR that we could get the illusion of a lightning bolt going from the foul poles to the scoreboard. Kind of like the lightning bolt lit the fireworks. I remember someone posted an idea like this way back in the summer. They said after the ballpark should have some giagantic, complicated eletrical field set up in the OF so after every Sox homerun lightning bolts could run from the scoreboard to the foul poles lke you said.

It was pretty much the most impractical idea ever, and a few posts later in the thread someome responded with the bong pic. The whole thing reminded me of this scene from Family Guy:

Brian: You're really going to take back donated presents on Christmas Eve?

Peter: Yep, now here's the plan: You'll enter through the air contitioning duct here. Now there'll be an invisible laser grid three inches from the floor, so you'll have to compress your body to the size of an ordinary household sponge and slide underneath like some kind of weird amphibious dolphin.

Brian: Can I buy some pot from you?

The next Sox game I went to I looked out at the OF and imagined someone revving up some huge electrical field for HRs and I just burst out laughing.

Ol' No. 2
12-05-2005, 01:53 PM
I remember someone posted an idea like this way back in the summer. They said after the ballpark should have some giagantic, complicated eletrical field set up in the OF so after every Sox homerun lightning bolts could run from the scoreboard to the foul poles lke you said.

It was pretty much the most impractical idea ever, and a few posts later in the thread someome responded with the bong pic. The whole thing reminded me of this scene from Family Guy:



The next Sox game I went to I looked out at the OF and imagined someone revving up some huge electrical field for HRs and I just burst out laughing.It could be done. You need a lot of voltage, not a lot of current. The problem is in getting the spark to go where you want it and not frying the people in the OF seats. You could string a very thin wire between the tops of the foul poles and the scoreboard. You charge up a capacitor and then when you discharge it, the current vaporizes the thin wire and provides a conduit for the spark to travel. The difficulty is that you'd have to replace the wire before every game.

mdep524
12-05-2005, 02:23 PM
It could be done. You need a lot of voltage, not a lot of current. The problem is in getting the spark to go where you want it and not frying the people in the OF seats. You could string a very thin wire between the tops of the foul poles and the scoreboard. You charge up a capacitor and then when you discharge it, the current vaporizes the thin wire and provides a conduit for the spark to travel. The difficulty is that you'd have to replace the wire before every game. I'd have to imagine the risk of zapping fans in the bleachers would be too great for them to consider doing this, wouldn't it?

itsnotrequired
12-05-2005, 02:43 PM
I'd have to imagine the risk of zapping fans in the bleachers would be too great for them to consider doing this, wouldn't it?

Not at all! I'm sure the NEC allows for such installations!

The physics are more or less right but no way it would ever happen. The equipment costs alone would make it prohibitive not to mention the insurance/liability issue.

This would be a cool idea for a TV ad though. Edit in some lightning between the poles after a HR. Catch phrase could be something like "White Sox baseball: It's electrifying.":D:

getonbckthr
12-05-2005, 04:15 PM
I'd have to imagine the risk of zapping fans in the bleachers would be too great for them to consider doing this, wouldn't it?
If any of you guys watch the WWE wrestling show, you would notice they did a similar thing with The Dudley Boyz. From 1 end of the building they gave the illusion of a rocket flying to the other side of the building where entrance stage was. When the rocket landed it appeared to ignite the pyro. Thats where I got the idea from.

Ol' No. 2
12-05-2005, 04:47 PM
I'd have to imagine the risk of zapping fans in the bleachers would be too great for them to consider doing this, wouldn't it?Who cares? They're in the cheap seats anyway.:redneck

Sox Surveyor
12-08-2005, 09:50 AM
The only renovation I hope they do is take that god awful ugly looking fundamentals deck out of the stadium. If your kid wants to improve his/her skill it's called little league or the Bulls/Sox training academy in Lisle.

I agree...I can't see the bottom half of the lineup on the scoreboard from there...I should get a discount for partially blocked view!

GoSox2K3
12-08-2005, 10:45 AM
I agree...I can't see the bottom half of the lineup on the scoreboard from there...I should get a discount for partially blocked view!

The solution is to move the scoreboard (which I hope they do), not to tear down the popular Fundamentals deck.

bighurt2719
12-08-2005, 01:43 PM
Yeah! Put the billboard back up!

yeah i miss that huge marlboro billboard

bighurt2719
12-08-2005, 01:44 PM
If any of you guys watch the WWE wrestling show, you would notice they did a similar thing with The Dudley Boyz. From 1 end of the building they gave the illusion of a rocket flying to the other side of the building where entrance stage was. When the rocket landed it appeared to ignite the pyro. Thats where I got the idea from.

wow you should work for MLB designing new parks. thats exactly what we should do- model our parks and our game after the WWF. after all, it worked great for the XFL too, didnt it??

tebman
12-08-2005, 03:47 PM
It could be done. You need a lot of voltage, not a lot of current. The problem is in getting the spark to go where you want it and not frying the people in the OF seats. You could string a very thin wire between the tops of the foul poles and the scoreboard. You charge up a capacitor and then when you discharge it, the current vaporizes the thin wire and provides a conduit for the spark to travel. The difficulty is that you'd have to replace the wire before every game.
I saw this and it reminded me of a great video (http://oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/Lugo_SWR.mpg) of a high-voltage power line being switched. A king-size arc dances across the terminals.

I think we should stick with the fireworks. :tongue:

Chip Z'nuff
12-08-2005, 03:55 PM
They should put posts up every 100 feet and hang a bunch of old zenith tv's off of em:shower

itsnotrequired
12-08-2005, 04:09 PM
I saw this and it reminded me of a great video (http://oldcrows.net/~oldcrow/Lugo_SWR.mpg) of a high-voltage power line being switched. A king-size arc dances across the terminals.

I think we should stick with the fireworks. :tongue:

Ah, the fun associated with circuit switches! That's the major drawback of them versus circuit breakers. A circuit breaker won't produce that arc.

skobabe8
12-08-2005, 05:24 PM
The teal police should have their hands full with this thread.