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Coolpapa
10-27-2005, 07:35 AM
It's gotta be Brian Cashman. Given a blank check for the most part, he's signed the wrong players and failed to field a team that can do what we just did and have been doing all year: playing solid fundamental baseball. If he were GM in a smaller market with lesser funds he would have a job for about 90 minutes. Robinson Cano? C'mon that's not an eye for talent, that's a poor defensive 20/20 guy.

Cambridge
10-27-2005, 09:17 AM
I hate the Yankees, but Cashman is far from the worst GM in the game. Many of his moves are dictated by ownership. Reportedly, several that Cashman has wanted to make have been vetoed by the people in Tampa. The man damn near deserves a medal for what he puts up with in trying to do his job.

As for, "...and failed to field a team that can do what we just did": He has a team in the playoffs every year; one that has won it all a few times. Most teams can't claim to have done that, money or lack thereof.

Coolpapa
10-27-2005, 09:29 AM
They don't play fundamental ball, he failed

Tragg
10-27-2005, 09:48 AM
Cashman is far from the worst.

I'd say Hendry.
With 3 starting pitchers as talented as he has, he does nothing to support them: nothing to improve a bad bullpen and does nothing to improve the infield defense - in fact, he makes moves to make it worse by getting terrible defenders in Nomar and Walker, and signing a dubious defensive player, Ramirez, to a 10Mill deal.

fquaye149
10-27-2005, 10:41 AM
There are far worse GM's than Cashman - he is hamstrung by Steinbrenner. Not to mention that money doesn't buy playoff appearances (Ask Steve Phillips and Omar Minaya) - and he's made the playoffs for as long as I can remember (well, not quite, but still)

If you want bad GMship look at the Cincinatti Reds and their refusal to mortgage the present of a 5th place team. Look at how much money they gave Ortiz and Milton.

There are some other bad GMs out there but no one's really THAT bad....everyone's doing what they think is going to help their team out given the constraints of payroll, etc.

Coolpapa
10-27-2005, 01:21 PM
Given the money, any GM could assemble a team better than Cashmen. Read the whole statement. He had basically a blank check and came up with Wright and Pavano? Please. That pitching staff sucks. The bench players suck.

Stroker Ace
10-27-2005, 02:02 PM
Given the money, any GM could assemble a team better than Cashmen. Read the whole statement. He had basically a blank check and came up with Wright and Pavano? Please. That pitching staff sucks. The bench players suck.Yep. Given what Cashman has to work with, he is horrible.

Jjav829
10-27-2005, 02:07 PM
http://www.thelavinagency.com/images/bios/beanebilly.jpg
"How's it going? Did you know that my A's made the playoffs 4 years in a row? Let's see Kenny Williams match that. World Series championships are for losers. Making the playoffs and being 1-and-done is what winners do."

fquaye149
10-27-2005, 02:12 PM
Yep. Given what Cashman has to work with, he is horrible.

Yes and no.

a.) the free-agent pitcher market was not a great one this past offseason, so to point to Wright and Pavano as coming up empty (to say nothing of Randy Johnson), is kind of unfair....the fact is Wright was all right and Pavano would have probably been a pretty good pitcher if not for injury.

b.) not a lot of pitchers WANT to come to NY. Money talks, but so does paparazzi and high expectations. For instance, if you were Paul Konerko and the White Sox offered you 12 million/5 years, the Red Sox offered you 14 million/5 years, and the Yankees offered you 15 million/5 years, would you honestly go to New York? Some players strive for that atmosphere, yes, but a lot don't want to put up with the tabloid bull****. Hell, Johnson was there, what, a week before he got into some **** with a reporter? And it's not like he's exactly Kenny Rogers or something.

Cashman has made some bad decisions, it would appear, but consider what we JUST learned: that Cashman was pushing HARD to sign Guerrero two years ago and Steinbrenner told him NO - go get Sheffield. This is only ONE instance we know of. I'm sure there's 10-20 incidents like that where Steinbrenner made them trade someone valuable to the team (like Claussen, Felix Rodriguez) or influenced bad free agency decisions (not resigning Pettite)

But honestly, as far as pitching offseasons, if we could have picked up Pavano and Wright, not to mention somehow gotten Johnson, that would have been a phenomenal offseason. I don't give Cashman a lot of CREDIT for what he does because he has a nearly infinite pocketbook, but at the same time the situation dictates that he shouldn't get too much BLAME.

And anyway, his team has made the playoffs the last, JEEZ, I don't even know how many years...***?

Bucky F. Dent
10-27-2005, 03:05 PM
There are far worse GM's than Cashman - he is hamstrung by Steinbrenner.


Yeah! If Cashman were "in charge" he would be the worst, but the Old Man has a great deal to say about the personnel decisions being made.

Flight #24
10-27-2005, 03:10 PM
http://www.thelavinagency.com/images/bios/beanebilly.jpg
"How's it going? Did you know that my A's made the playoffs 4 years in a row? Let's see Kenny Williams match that. World Series championships are for losers. Making the playoffs and being 1-and-done is what winners do."

:rolling:

Beanie-baby's got 'em all fooled. It's the pitching, stupid. He's done a good job of that, but his offense is pretty good at beating up on D-Ray caliber pitchers.....which unfortunately doesn't mean much in the playoffs.

antitwins13
10-27-2005, 03:11 PM
I'll say who's pulling the strings for the Mets. They have the third largest payroll in the bigs and didn't even come close to the playoffs.

doublem23
10-27-2005, 03:19 PM
I would agree that it's the Mets' GM and not Cashman. Since the Yankees lost the 2001 World Series, Steinbrenner has gone completely psychotic and has to be directly involved in a number of the wheelings and dealings going around. The Mets, on the other hand, have wasted so much money on guys like Mo Vaughn, Kaz Matsui, Carlos Beltran, etc... The list goes on.

Plus, how long has Cashman been around? How many of those World Series titles was he responsible for?

FedEx227
10-27-2005, 03:22 PM
The Mets just had bad pickups, which in a way is Omar Minaya's fault, but hes trying to pick up the pieces of the awful Steve Phillips signings...

I'd have to go with D-Rays Chuck LaMar for the worst GM, I can't think of one decent move this man made during his time at the healm.

antitwins13
10-27-2005, 03:26 PM
The Mets just had bad pickups, which in a way is Omar Minaya's fault, but hes trying to pick up the pieces of the awful Steve Phillips signings...

I'd have to go with D-Rays Chuck LaMar for the worst GM, I can't think of one decent move this man made during his time at the healm.

The difference between Minaya and LaMar is the amount of money to be worked with though. It's hard to expect much from a D-Rays GM with there payroll is the worst or second to worst in baseball.

samram
10-27-2005, 03:31 PM
The Mets just had bad pickups, which in a way is Omar Minaya's fault, but hes trying to pick up the pieces of the awful Steve Phillips signings...

I'd have to go with D-Rays Chuck LaMar for the worst GM, I can't think of one decent move this man made during his time at the healm.

Well, ol' Chuck got fired, so he can't be the worst. Is Bill Bavasi running the show in Seattle? He hasn't exactly done a great job out there the last few years. Dave Littlefield is bad, but he may be gone (I'm not sure), and John Hart was awful until Texas canned him.

SouthSide_HitMen
10-27-2005, 03:59 PM
I would agree that it's the Mets' GM and not Cashman. Since the Yankees lost the 2001 World Series, Steinbrenner has gone completely psychotic and has to be directly involved in a number of the wheelings and dealings going around. The Mets, on the other hand, have wasted so much money on guys like Mo Vaughn, Kaz Matsui, Carlos Beltran, etc... The list goes on.

Plus, how long has Cashman been around? How many of those World Series titles was he responsible for?

Omar Minaya is the new Mets GM (hired after the 2004 season) and needs time to build the team (it took Kenny Williams 4 years to build our World Champions).

I agree Jim Duquette was one of the worst in baseball (the Mets prior GM).

Now that Chuck LaMarr has finally been axed, the current worst GMs are:


High Payroll Division:

Brian Cashman New York Yankees - $200 million for 5 bullpen holes, three rotation holes, a 40 year old centerfielder and no bench. $100 million should buy more than this. Pavano & Wright were debacles. They have no bullpen outside of Rivera and Gordon (who may be leaving). Johnson & Giambi are due over $100 million. Jeter is owed $106 million. This is a big mess.

Jim Hendry - His team is a joke. Little offense outside of Lee and Ramirez. He needs to dump Dusty and find a manager who plays players under 35 years of age and pray several prospects come through. Nomore, Patterson, Hollandsworth and Burnitz are pretty weak starters. Hendry hired Dusty as well and deserves what he did to this team.


Others with less money - Seattle Mariners - have a high payroll yet have underperformed the past several years. The Reds and Royals have done a lousy job for a very long time.

chaz171
10-27-2005, 04:10 PM
We win the world series here in Chicago and we still have to have a discussion about a New York team?

pathetic!

bobowhite
10-27-2005, 04:14 PM
I have to give my vote to the GM of the Mariners. The other GMs mentioned do deserve much of the bashing they are taking here, so I'm not disagreeing with anybody.

The Mariners have or have had several good components, including Ichiro, but performed dismally this past two years. The Mariners had seven different starting catchers this past year, that's a serious failure to evaluate talent. They traded people left and right but really could only field a patchwork of talent.

buehrle4cy05
10-28-2005, 12:36 AM
Cashman probably had his hands tied with the Boss telling him who to sign. I think this year, when he started to make some baseball decisions, looked ok. Trading for Chacon was big.

The worst GM's in baseball, IMO, is Paul DePodesta. The Lo Duca/Mota trade didn't keep the Dodgers out of the playoffs last year, but it did this year. Losing Mota and then Quantrill (inneffective) forced Gagne to pitch more than he's used to, and his arm gave out on him early this year because of it. Lo Duca was a clubhouse leader who also is a hell of a good catcher. The Dodgers are currently without a proven catcher and their pitching staff has taken a hit because of it. He also signed Derek Lowe and JD Drew.

Banix12
10-28-2005, 01:16 AM
Cashman probably had his hands tied with the Boss telling him who to sign. I think this year, when he started to make some baseball decisions, looked ok. Trading for Chacon was big.

The worst GM's in baseball, IMO, is Paul DePodesta. The Lo Duca/Mota trade didn't keep the Dodgers out of the playoffs last year, but it did this year. Losing Mota and then Quantrill (inneffective) forced Gagne to pitch more than he's used to, and his arm gave out on him early this year because of it. Lo Duca was a clubhouse leader who also is a hell of a good catcher. The Dodgers are currently without a proven catcher and their pitching staff has taken a hit because of it. He also signed Derek Lowe and JD Drew.

He's only had the job for a little bit but certainly his early results looked like garbage. If he had just brought back the team from the previous year, as overrated as it was, it probably could have dominated that weak division, even with Lima-time dragging them down. He still has time to prove there is a method to his madness but so far it just looks like madness.

I'd say Baltimore but I think whoever runs that team gets hampered by the owner. It's hard to blame a GM for a team that seems to be run by a Steinbrenner-like owner without the willingness to spend money on anything good.

chaerulez
10-28-2005, 01:20 AM
I don't think the people that think Cashman is the "worst GM in baseball" people don't understand he doesn't have total control. It was Steinbrenner's idea to sign a lot of guys. If you want to take shots at Cashman, take them for not having the guts to go to a team where he can control everything. I just think he likes the safety of being in the Yankees, that way George is always there to take the heat because it is more his fault.

Banix12
10-28-2005, 01:33 AM
I don't think the people that think Cashman is the "worst GM in baseball" people don't understand he doesn't have total control. It was Steinbrenner's idea to sign a lot of guys. If you want to take shots at Cashman, take them for not having the guts to go to a team where he can control everything. I just think he likes the safety of being in the Yankees, that way George is always there to take the heat because it is more his fault.

Yeah, really the Yankees only started getting bad again when Steinbrenner started getting all hands on again. When he had that ban on him to keep his hands off the team, the team got better. He probably stays with the yankees since he's worked there most of his life, he lives there, so why move when they money is good.

ATXBMX
10-28-2005, 03:28 AM
The mets for sure, that guy single handedly inflated the starting pitching market last year. 3 years/21 million for Kris Benson? Way too much for a guy with a losing record. GMAB

Norberto7
11-04-2005, 12:37 PM
To put some numbers on how efficiently teams spend their money, here is a relation of the two things that matter to the general manager: dollars and wins. The teams are ranked in order from most efficient to least efficient in terms of cost per win.

Team $/Win

1. New York (AL) $2,192,703
2. Boston $1,300,054
3. Seattle $1,261,347
4. New York (NL) $1,220,552
5. San Francisco $1,202,660
6. Los Angeles (NL) $1,169,563
7. Chicago (NL) $1,101,682
8. Philadelphia $1,085,477
9. Los Angeles (AL) $1,028,687
10. Baltimore $998,842
11. Detroit $973,126
12. Atlanta $960,636
13. St. Louis $921,068
14. Houston $862,685
15. Cinncinnati $847,843
16. Arizona $808,300
17. San Diego $771,839
18. Chicago (AL) $759,373
19. Florida $727,817
20. Colorado $718,731
21. Texas $706,949
22. Minnesota $682,108
23. Kansas City $658,589
24. Oakland $629,838
25. Washington $594,506
26. Toronto $571,493
27. Pittsburgh $569,149
28. Milwaukee $493,022
29. Cleveland $446,263
30. Tampa Bay $438,254

This year, it would seem Seattle easily got the worst benefits from its cost. On the other hand, Cleveland did a pretty amazing job compared to the company they keep. Oakland was also pretty impressive, as were the Sox, World Series Champions, while spending less money per regular season win than the likes of the Mariners, Giants, Cubs, Orioles, Tigers, Diamondbacks, Reds, and Padres. The Sox were about as efficient, spending-wise, as the Rockies, which makes the job Kenny Williams did all the more impressive.

skobabe8
11-04-2005, 02:26 PM
We win the world series here in Chicago and we still have to have a discussion about a New York team?

pathetic!

Its a Talking Baseball forum discussion. You're supposed to talk about other teams.

soxfanreggie
11-04-2005, 05:23 PM
Tampa's GM got the shaft. Losing Baldelli for the year really hurt them, but their payroll could barely afford A-Rod. I mean if they increase payroll to over $30 million, that's like a 20% raise for them.

As for Cashman, I don't know how much say he had in Kevin Brown, Mussina (who has been decent this year), Randy Johnson (expensive, even if most people believed he would pan out), Pavano (had some good talent, but injury killed his season), and Wright...but a lot of those moves shouldn't have been made. Heck, we got like 30+ wins out of Buehrle and Garland for about $10 million combined...the yanks have like 3 pitchers that make 150% or more of that.

Morale of the story, Yanks made stupid moves with their pitching, Tampa needs to spend more money so their GM won't take the blame, and KW for GM of the Year! :D:

JUribe1989
11-04-2005, 05:32 PM
Without a doubt the worst GM was Depodesta. He was so unbelievably bad.

Depodesta's Bad Moves
-Traded Lo Duca and Mota for an injured Brad Penny and Juan Encarnacion who they ended up giving away right away.
-Signed JD Drew for a huge contract when in reality he had one solid year in MLB.
-Let Gagne slip and did not address his injury problem the year before. At this point he had basically no bullpen.

ma-gaga
11-04-2005, 05:53 PM
I've had a really bad dislike of San Fran's GM for the way they treated AJ.

They dicked with his arbitration hearing.
They slammed him in the paper after his slow start.
They called him a cancer.
They waived him, and replaced him with Mike Matheny??
AND
They gave up a TON of pitching to get him to begin with...

He has Barry Bonds, and Jason Schmidt, but beyond that his idea of a good signing is a 35 year old outfielder who is the son of the manager. He trades away all of his first round draft picks. Bah. Put him in first place in my "bad GM" book.

And you can't call DePodesta the worst GM in MLB. He's been fired. And the Dodgers are morons for doing that.

OEO Magglio
11-04-2005, 06:15 PM
Tampa's GM got the shaft. Losing Baldelli for the year really hurt them, but their payroll could barely afford A-Rod. I mean if they increase payroll to over $30 million, that's like a 20% raise for them.

\
Lamar shafted himself for years cause he's a moron.

Jjav829
11-04-2005, 06:43 PM
Tampa's GM got the shaft. Losing Baldelli for the year really hurt them, but their payroll could barely afford A-Rod. I mean if they increase payroll to over $30 million, that's like a 20% raise for them.


:?:

Uhh, you're joking...right? Please tell me you aren't serious. Chuck LaMar is one of the worst GMs in the history of baseball. He didn't get shafted on anything. LaMar got 100% what he deserved. Hell, LaMar should be thankful that the Rays allowed him to stay around long enough to drive that franchise into the ground. LaMar is clueless. You actually think Baldelli alone was going to make a difference? :o:

The Rays organization became 10 times better the day Chuck LaMar went away. Maybe they can actually start to look like a major league organization now.

Hendu
11-04-2005, 07:54 PM
:?:

Uhh, you're joking...right? Please tell me you aren't serious. Chuck LaMar is one of the worst GMs in the history of baseball. He didn't get shafted on anything. LaMar got 100% what he deserved. Hell, LaMar should be thankful that the Rays allowed him to stay around long enough to drive that franchise into the ground. LaMar is clueless. You actually think Baldelli alone was going to make a difference? :o:

The Rays organization became 10 times better the day Chuck LaMar went away. Maybe they can actually start to look like a major league organization now.

I'll second that. For 2 years in a row, Danys Baez has been one of the hottest names at the trading deadline. But here he is, still on the D-Rays' roster. Same goes with Aubrey Huff.

During LaMar's tenure as GM, he developed a reputation as someone who asked for WAYYY too much in trades and didn't soften his demands when it was obvious no teams were biting. That's a luxury that a GM of a perrenial 100-loss team cannot afford....because maintaining the status quo is not a good option.

SoxFan64
11-04-2005, 08:33 PM
Given the money, any GM could assemble a team better than Cashmen. Read the whole statement. He had basically a blank check and came up with Wright and Pavano? Please. That pitching staff sucks. The bench players suck.

So when the Shankess won 4 out of 5 with sound fundamental baseball Cashman was a genius by your reasoning.
:dtroll:

Yes, Cashman has more money to play with. He also has the worst owner to work for. How long has any other GM lasted under Steinbrenner??

The people he got this year -- Wright and Pavano -- was more of a Steinbrenner move. Or maybe you failed to read the news. The fine print had George's hands all over it. If you read just the PR statement than yes it was a Cashman move. But the undertow was George all the way.

These two pitchers were not Cashman's first choice. However, with the age of his team -- Cahsman knew he had probably one final shot with his aging team. The gamble failed; Cashman agreed but it is sort of like your boss coming to you and telling of his great idea and you know it is a bad one.

But worst GM. You obviously are looking at one part of one year and ignoring the 4 out of 5 years his team was on top.

That is no better than the mediots who thought we were crumbling in late Aguust -- where we lost seven. The reason we lost those seven. Pods was out and our offense stuffered. So that makes KW a bad GM by your reasoning. Or I am sorry that makes Ozzie a bad manager by the same fauled "logic".

Worst GM: Hendry.

Worst thread starter -- any idiot that thinks Cashman is the worst GM. (BTW, I dislike the Yankees. But those teams of the late 90's were some of the most fundamentally sound teams I have ever seen -- even better than the Big Red Machine.)

Chips
11-04-2005, 08:38 PM
So when the Shankess won 4 out of 5 with sound fundamental baseball Cashman was a genius by your reasoning.
:dtroll:

Yes, Cashman has more money to play with. He also has the worst owner to work for. How long has any other GM lasted under Steinbrenner??

The people he got this year -- Wright and Pavano -- we more a Steinbrenner move. Or maybe you failed to read the news. The fine print had George's hands all over it. If you read just the PR statement than yes it was a Cashman move. But the undertow was George all the way.

These two pitchers were not Cashman's first choice. However, with the age of his team -- Cahsman knew he had probably one final shot with his aging team. The gamble failed; Cashman agreed but it is sort of like your boss coming to you and telling of his great idea and you know it is a bad one.

But worst GM. You obviously are looking at one part of one year and ignoring the 4 out of 5 years his team was on top.

That is no better than the mediots who thought we were crumbling in late Aguust -- where we lost seven. The reason we lost those seven. Pods was out and our offense stuffered. So that makes KW a bad GM by your reasoning. Or I am sorry that makes Ozzie a bad manager by the same fauled "logic".

Worst GM: Hendry.

Worst thread starter -- any idiot that thinks Cashman is the worst GM. (BTW, I dislike the Yankees. But those teams of the late 90's were some of the most fundamentally sound teams I have ever seen -- even better than the Big Red Machine.)

Well said, and as many others have mentioned, Cashman is nowhere near the worst GM in baseball. His team won their division again, they went to the playoffs again. He had plenty of injuries to deal with. There are ****tier GM's than Cashman.

SoxFan64
11-04-2005, 08:43 PM
The Mets just had bad pickups, which in a way is Omar Minaya's fault, but hes trying to pick up the pieces of the awful Steve Phillips signings...

I am sure having trouble understanding this one. Omar is responsible for the bad pickups of the previous GM? :redneck

Omar been there one year. He did a decent job in Montreal with no money and no leadership from above.

If the Mets had bad contracts prior to Minaya's coming on board, there is little he can do but eat the money or package a bad contract around a good prospect.

Now if the Mets still stink two years from now and Omar is still there, then I will agree with you.

But it took KW five years and another manager to get things right here.

Or am I missing something.... like you have to win ASAP or you are a bad GM or bad manager.

I better stop reading this thread before someone considers me a New York sports fan. :redneck

Lip Man 1
11-04-2005, 10:41 PM
Ummm why does Dave Littlefield still have a job? Now there's a bad G.M.

Lip

TornLabrum
11-04-2005, 10:42 PM
:dumbash

"At least you guys don't have me to kick around anymore!"

:KW

"Yup...I did enough of that on my own."

:tool

"If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times..."

:woo-woo

"Caveat...woo! Emptor...woo!"

1951Campbell
11-04-2005, 10:50 PM
:dumbash

"At least you guys don't have me to kick around anymore!"

:KW

"Yup...I did enough of that on my own."

:tool

"If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times..."

:woo-woo

"Caviat...woo! Emptor...woo!"



(1) Caveat emptor.



(2) Is there an unwritten rule that GMs have to wear cheesy shades?

TornLabrum
11-04-2005, 10:55 PM
(1) Caveat emptor.



(2) Is there an unwritten rule that GMs have to wear cheesy shades?

1) Hey! I took German and Russian, not Latin! (But I'm editing it nevertheless, despite the fact that I don't think Ronnie could spell it either if pressed.)

2) Yes.

soxfanreggie
11-05-2005, 12:02 AM
Yes, Lamar is stupid; he had many chances to get some great prospects for Huff, Baez, etc., but I don't know how many people could have gotten more wins with that payroll. You can't sign anyone really good for the money they were spending.

And, I do definitely agree that he asked for too much. He had a chance to shed a lot of payroll (a lot for the small payroll they had) and pick up some good prospects to build around. I can see Crawford, Baldelli, Kazmir, and their other top prospects getting out of town as soon as they can unless they're willing to spend more. Heck, increasing their payroll to 40 million would allow them to pick up a very good starter and a good hitter. 50-60 million would really allow them to add some key pieces to the talent they have.

At least they're "rebuilding the dream" (as per their new slogan). Their ticket prices are even lower this year, trying to draw more home fans than visitors fans I guess. Which, heck, I won't argue with because it makes seeing the Sox cheaper.

With BJ Upton and Delmon Young getting prepared to join some of their youthful talent on the field, they really need to bring in some good vets. Aubrey Huff can be a good clubhouse guy and a fan favorite, but they need some experienced vets. They made a mistake going for Steroid, Inc. years ago, this time, they just need to be smarter.

soxfanreggie
11-05-2005, 12:17 AM
Too add to this, I do like what the D-Rays management has done to attract fans for next year.

"Those fans purchasing a season ticket in any seating category except the beach, outfield upper reserve and upper reserve infield, will receive a $100 credit per seat for food, beverages and merchandise at Tropicana Field next season. "

That would be nice. You could get season tickets and jerseys for the family. I also really like their beach. I've never sat there as my uncle has season tickets, but can't beat seeing an MLB game for just a few $. Also, the D-Rays dropped their average ticket prices by about $.50 per game.

In addition, FREE PARKING and allowed to bring FREE FOOD AND DRINKS. You can't beat those perks...well besides the Sox giving us a WS title. I think I'm going to have to take my uncles tickets for each of the 3 Sox games :D:

Mohoney
11-05-2005, 12:34 AM
Ummm why does Dave Littlefield still have a job? Now there's a bad G.M.

Lip

EXACTLY what I was going to say. If you're one of those "perpetually rebuilding" GMs, you need to get as much young talent back in trades as possible. That Ramirez trade got him absolutely nothing.

ChiSox14305635
11-05-2005, 12:49 AM
I've had a really bad dislike of San Fran's GM for the way they treated AJ.

They dicked with his arbitration hearing.
They slammed him in the paper after his slow start.
They called him a cancer.
They waived him, and replaced him with Mike Matheny??
AND
They gave up a TON of pitching to get him to begin with...

He has Barry Bonds, and Jason Schmidt, but beyond that his idea of a good signing is a 35 year old outfielder who is the son of the manager. He trades away all of his first round draft picks. Bah. Put him in first place in my "bad GM" book.

And you can't call DePodesta the worst GM in MLB. He's been fired. And the Dodgers are morons for doing that.

Brian Sabean.

fquaye149
11-05-2005, 01:14 AM
At this point he [THE LA DODGERS] had basically no bullpen.

Ok - this is not that relevant and not that big of deal, but to say the LA Dodgers have no bullpen besides Gagne is pretty fallacious...

Ok.

Carry on.

KRS1
11-05-2005, 01:20 AM
Brian Sabean.

I'm sorta impartial towards Sabean in this discussion. Whos trades two young and talented, Aardsma and Williams(no matter if they were lazy or not) for one of the worst designated game blowers in the majors?

nccwsfan
11-05-2005, 12:16 PM
:?:

Uhh, you're joking...right? Please tell me you aren't serious. Chuck LaMar is one of the worst GMs in the history of baseball. He didn't get shafted on anything. LaMar got 100% what he deserved. Hell, LaMar should be thankful that the Rays allowed him to stay around long enough to drive that franchise into the ground. LaMar is clueless. You actually think Baldelli alone was going to make a difference? :o:

The Rays organization became 10 times better the day Chuck LaMar went away. Maybe they can actually start to look like a major league organization now.

Other than the fact that Lamar changed team philosophy a number of times during his tenure, other than the fact that he was absolutely impossible to trade with (rival GM's ridiculed him relentlessly for his strongarm tactics), other than the fact that his first major trade was a five tool player for Kevin Stocker, and other than the fact that he was a yes man for the worst MLB owner in our generation- I'd say Lamar did get the shaft.

Lamar was the worst GM, but now he's out, so my vote would be for any GM that has the resources to win but is inept at doing so......if you're in the top 10 in payroll and haven't been to the playoffs in a few years you've got a problem.

veeter
11-05-2005, 01:45 PM
Cashman is far from the worst.

I'd say Hendry.
With 3 starting pitchers as talented as he has, he does nothing to support them: nothing to improve a bad bullpen and does nothing to improve the infield defense - in fact, he makes moves to make it worse by getting terrible defenders in Nomar and Walker, and signing a dubious defensive player, Ramirez, to a 10Mill deal. Look, I don't like Hendry and hate anything cubbie. But how can he help it if Balsa and the Messiah are hurt all the time. The fact that they are hurt all the time, IMO lowers their talent quotient. You have no talent when you're on the DL.

soxfanreggie
11-05-2005, 02:51 PM
Hendry has made some nice acquisitions, but the Cubs will have problems as long as they have to pay $12 million to a middle reliever and a nice chunk to Prior. Wood will continue to hurt himself unless he changes his mechanics, and Prior will sit out anytime he stubs his toe.

However, the Flubs have made a few decent acquisitions. Derek Lee...I would love to have him here, I don't think anyone could say they didn't think we could use him. Jeremy Burnitz, I think it was a good pick-up for the Flubs. He helped me in my fantasy season. I don't think Hendry is the best GM, but he is certainly not the worst.

Chips
11-05-2005, 03:25 PM
Hendry has made some nice acquisitions, but the Cubs will have problems as long as they have to pay $12 million to a middle reliever and a nice chunk to Prior. Wood will continue to hurt himself unless he changes his mechanics, and Prior will sit out anytime he stubs his toe.

However, the Flubs have made a few decent acquisitions. Derek Lee...I would love to have him here, I don't think anyone could say they didn't think we could use him. Jeremy Burnitz, I think it was a good pick-up for the Flubs. He helped me in my fantasy season. I don't think Hendry is the best GM, but he is certainly not the worst.

Derrek Lee was a one season wonder. Prior to this season, he never hit over .300, actually he never hit over .282. He never cracked 40 homers until this season, his highest was 32. He usually K's more than he did this year. I think next year he will return to medoicrity.

No I would not like to see him in a Sox uniform.

WestSox
11-05-2005, 03:52 PM
I hate the Yankees, but Cashman is far from the worst GM in the game. Many of his moves are dictated by ownership. Reportedly, several that Cashman has wanted to make have been vetoed by the people in Tampa. The man damn near deserves a medal for what he puts up with in trying to do his job.

No kidding. Cashman's a freaking puppet.

WestSox
11-05-2005, 04:25 PM
He's definitely not the worst GM out there, but I need to give John Hart special recognition here for assembling some of the greatest offensive teams in MLB history... and failing in the end because he absolutely REFUSED to spend money on pitching. Randy Johnson, Schilling, and Pedro were all either free agents or on the trading block in the mid/late '90s... but Hart spent the money on Matt Williams, Travis Fryman, and Robbie Alomar instead. By the time he came to his senses, Chuck Finley and Dave Burba were too little and too late.

Jjav829
11-05-2005, 04:39 PM
Yes, Lamar is stupid; he had many chances to get some great prospects for Huff, Baez, etc., but I don't know how many people could have gotten more wins with that payroll. You can't sign anyone really good for the money they were spending.

And, I do definitely agree that he asked for too much. He had a chance to shed a lot of payroll (a lot for the small payroll they had) and pick up some good prospects to build around. I can see Crawford, Baldelli, Kazmir, and their other top prospects getting out of town as soon as they can unless they're willing to spend more. Heck, increasing their payroll to 40 million would allow them to pick up a very good starter and a good hitter. 50-60 million would really allow them to add some key pieces to the talent they have.

At least they're "rebuilding the dream" (as per their new slogan). Their ticket prices are even lower this year, trying to draw more home fans than visitors fans I guess. Which, heck, I won't argue with because it makes seeing the Sox cheaper.

With BJ Upton and Delmon Young getting prepared to join some of their youthful talent on the field, they really need to bring in some good vets. Aubrey Huff can be a good clubhouse guy and a fan favorite, but they need some experienced vets. They made a mistake going for Steroid, Inc. years ago, this time, they just need to be smarter.

But it's not just a matter of looking at last years payroll. Like I said, look at his entire body of work as the GM. It's awful. Let's look at some of the brilliant moves of the Chuck LaMar era.

-He loved to sign washed up veterans to big deals. Maybe that's why he wasn't allowed to spend more money last year. This guy gave Greg Vaughn a 4-year, $34 million deal. Vaughn had one decent year and started to fall off. In the third year of that contract Vaughn hit .163 in 251 at-bats.

-LaMar traded for Vinny Castilla. Castilla had one awful year with the Devil Rays and moved on to Houston the next year.

- LaMar signed Juan Guzman to a 2-year, $12.5 million deal. Guzman pitched a whole 2.2 innings for the Devil Rays before getting injured and ending his Devil Rays career.

- LaMar signed Danny Bautista and Robert Alomar last year, then had them both retire before the season started. If Alomar hadn't retired, Jorge Cantu never would have had the chance to have the break out season he had.

- As was mentioned, LaMar traded Bobby Abreu for Kevin Stocker.

- LaMar traded Brandon Backe for Geoff Blum.

- LaMar traded Dmitri Young for Mike Kelly.

- LaMar traded Jorge Sosa for Nick Green.

Notice a trend? Good, young talent for crappy, light-hitting utility infielders.

This doesn't even include some of the bad first round picks the Devil Rays have had over the years, most notably taking Josh Hamilton over Josh Beckett.

Still think LaMar got shafted?

beckett21
11-05-2005, 04:46 PM
But it's not just a matter of looking at last years payroll. Like I said, look at his entire body of work as the GM. It's awful. Let's look at some of the brilliant moves of the Chuck LaMar era.

-He loved to sign washed up veterans to big deals. Maybe that's why he wasn't allowed to spend more money last year. This guy gave Greg Vaughn a 4-year, $34 million deal. Vaughn had one decent year and started to fall off. In the third year of that contract Vaughn hit .163 in 251 at-bats.

-LaMar traded for Vinny Castilla. Castilla had one awful year with the Devil Rays and moved on to Houston the next year.

- LaMar signed Juan Guzman to a 2-year, $12.5 million deal. Guzman pitched a whole 2.2 innings for the Devil Rays before getting injured and ending his Devil Rays career.

- LaMar signed Danny Bautista and Robert Alomar last year, then had them both retire before the season started. If Alomar hadn't retired, Jorge Cantu never would have had the chance to have the break out season he had.

- As was mentioned, LaMar traded Bobby Abreu for Kevin Stocker.

- LaMar traded Brandon Backe for Geoff Blum.

- LaMar traded Dmitri Young for Mike Kelly.

- LaMar traded Jorge Sosa for Nick Green.

Notice a trend? Good, young talent for crappy, light-hitting utility infielders.

This doesn't even include some of the bad first round picks the Devil Rays have had over the years, most notably taking Josh Hamilton over Josh Beckett.

Still think LaMar got shafted?

That is one UGLY record. :puking:

nccwsfan
11-05-2005, 05:14 PM
This doesn't even include some of the bad first round picks the Devil Rays have had over the years, most notably taking Josh Hamilton over Josh Beckett.

Still think LaMar got shafted?

Don't forget signing Matt White and Bobby Seay to the largest signing bonuses in history (for high school players). White was I believe a $10 million signing bonus!! At least Seay made it to the minors...

Then he hires a manager whose specialty was supposed to be handling rookies/new talent. Then they sign up Guzman, Castilla, Vaughn, Castillo, etc for the "Hit Show" (remember that one?)...:o:

Once they scrap their "Hit Show" movement and decide to develop their farm talent they fire Rothschild and bring in Hal McRae. A manager who prefers dealing with veteran talent...:o: :o:


Lamar is the GM version of Secretariat. He wins this one going away...

fquaye149
11-05-2005, 09:26 PM
But it's not just a matter of looking at last years payroll. Like I said, look at his entire body of work as the GM. It's awful. Let's look at some of the brilliant moves of the Chuck LaMar era.

-He loved to sign washed up veterans to big deals. Maybe that's why he wasn't allowed to spend more money last year. This guy gave Greg Vaughn a 4-year, $34 million deal. Vaughn had one decent year and started to fall off. In the third year of that contract Vaughn hit .163 in 251 at-bats.

-LaMar traded for Vinny Castilla. Castilla had one awful year with the Devil Rays and moved on to Houston the next year.

- LaMar signed Juan Guzman to a 2-year, $12.5 million deal. Guzman pitched a whole 2.2 innings for the Devil Rays before getting injured and ending his Devil Rays career.

- LaMar signed Danny Bautista and Robert Alomar last year, then had them both retire before the season started. If Alomar hadn't retired, Jorge Cantu never would have had the chance to have the break out season he had.

- As was mentioned, LaMar traded Bobby Abreu for Kevin Stocker.

- LaMar traded Brandon Backe for Geoff Blum.

- LaMar traded Dmitri Young for Mike Kelly.

- LaMar traded Jorge Sosa for Nick Green.

Notice a trend? Good, young talent for crappy, light-hitting utility infielders.

This doesn't even include some of the bad first round picks the Devil Rays have had over the years, most notably taking Josh Hamilton over Josh Beckett.

Still think LaMar got shafted?

But in the battle of the bad GM's, Minaya and Lamar went head to head and when the dust cleared it was Lamar holding Scott Kazmir and Minaya holding VICTOR ****ING ZAMBRANO.

Minaya is filth.

santo=dorf
11-05-2005, 10:08 PM
But in the battle of the bad GM's, Minaya and Lamar went head to head and when the dust cleared it was Lamar holding Scott Kazmir and Minaya holding VICTOR ****ING ZAMBRANO.

Minaya is filth.

Minaya took over before the 2005 season. :?:

Lamarr was atrocious.

fquaye149
11-06-2005, 12:56 AM
Minaya took over before the 2005 season. :?:

Lamarr was atrocious.


So that was Phillips' doing?:redface:

Well nevertheless, if we can still talk about Lamar as worst GM, we should be able to still mention Phillips

jabrch
11-06-2005, 10:41 AM
Without a doubt the worst GM was Depodesta. He was so unbelievably bad.

Depodesta's Bad Moves
-Traded Lo Duca and Mota for an injured Brad Penny and Juan Encarnacion who they ended up giving away right away.
-Signed JD Drew for a huge contract when in reality he had one solid year in MLB.
-Let Gagne slip and did not address his injury problem the year before. At this point he had basically no bullpen.

I agree - in a very short period of time Depodesta turned Evans' playoff team into a mess. It will take whomever replaces him 3+ years just to undo the terrible moves he made. He had about a 100mm payroll, a great farm system, and a team that was in the playoffs and ruined it.

Foulke You
11-07-2005, 03:06 PM
Is Bill Bavasi running the show in Seattle? He hasn't exactly done a great job out there the last few years.
My vote for runner up on Chuck LaMarr is Bill Bavasi in Seattle. He has a very decent payroll to work with and the moves he made last offseason had me scratching my head. The Mariners play in one of the biggest pitching friendly parks in the majors so logic would dictate that you build your team around pitching. (You should do that regardless of ballpark but at Safeco, it makes even MORE sense) Instead, the popular belief that Bavasi spewed was that their lack of a power game was the reason they lost in 2004 so he goes out and spends truckloads of money on free agent sluggers Richie Sexson and the 1 year wonderboy Adrian Beltre and passing on impact free agent pitchers like Kevin Millwood, Matt Clement, and even Eric Milton who was a flyball pitcher who could have had success in Safeco.

Adrian Beltre didn't come close to the numbers he put up in LA as his HR total dropped from 48 to 19 and his RBIs dropped from 121 to 87. Sexson was as productive as he could be at Safeco putting up a respectable 39HRs and 121RBIs. However, Bavasi's master plan to slug his way to an AL West title did not pan out. He did little to address the pitching that was getting older and older with the ancient Jamie Moyer in the rotation and the over the hill Jeff Nelson helping to anchor the bullpen. Ryan Franklin was caught with roids and Gil Meche had his usual so so performance as his E.R.A. was over 5 and he posted a 10W-8L record.

Bavasi's trades or lack thereof also hurt his track record in recent years:

-Freddy Garcia trade to the Sox yielded only an average center fielder in Jeremy Reed, a backup utility guy in Mike Morse, and Miguel Olivo who ended up hitting around .150 and being released. He jumped the gun on that deal and probably could have held out for more talent if he had waited for more teams to get involved. Great deal for KW, bad move for Bavasi.

-He didn't trade the expensive Eddie Guardado this offseason when there were many contending teams looking for left handed relief help and closers. It's not like the M's were contending at the trade deadline. Guardado is the type of player you have in your bullpen if you are in a "win now" mentality. He should have been trading for young starting pitching help and he wasted a great "sellers market" this season.

-Raul Ibanez is another veteran left handed hitting outfielder that probably should have been moved for pitching but yet Bavasi held on to him for some unknown reason. This could have given Seattle a chance to see if younger guys Jamal Strong or Chris Snelling could play on an everyday basis. It just strikes me as odd that a former 16 year farm director of the Angels seems to have an aversion to giving up on high priced vets for young players when the season is lost.

Overall, I just think that Bavasi has made some very poor choices the past couple years since taking over for the relatively successful Pat Gillick. With the amount of money that is available to him (Safeco sells out on a regular basis), he should adopt a more Kenny Williams/Terry Ryan style of team rather than trying to compete with the Yankees and Red Sox for sluggers.

Hangar18
11-07-2005, 03:43 PM
Cam Bonifay. Period. How this guy was able to lose Kenny Lofton, Randall Simon and Aramis Ramirez essentially for Bobby Hill ..........is just incredibly bad.

All of those players were in demand, and he couldve at the least stocked up their minor league system. He didnt, and the Pirates continue to stink.

TaylorStSox
11-07-2005, 03:47 PM
Derrek Lee was a one season wonder. Prior to this season, he never hit over .300, actually he never hit over .282. He never cracked 40 homers until this season, his highest was 32. He usually K's more than he did this year. I think next year he will return to medoicrity.

No I would not like to see him in a Sox uniform.


Lee has been anything but "mediocre" before this year.