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View Full Version : Sox goal to win Central, or win W.S.


Randar68
12-13-2001, 04:17 PM
With a solid core in place of Maggs, Frank, Buehrle, Konerko, etc., is the goal of this organization to win a few AL Central crowns and call it a decade? Our core players are not getting younger or further from FA. The time to strike is now. Even with all the posturing and loading up in NY.

My Plan:
- Deal a package of Lee, and a combination of players from the pool of Rowand/Ginter/Guerrier/Ulacia/Almonte/Valenzuela/etc to get Giles. He fits Reinsy's needs perfectly and could team with Maggs/Frank/Konerko/Valentin to form one of the best lineups in the game.
- Sign Chan Ho Park. Is he asking for 14 million per season??? Yes. Will he get it???? No. With both NY teams pretty much spent out, and everyone else but Texas seeming to be conservative, how much better would a rotation of Buehrle/Park/Richie/Garland/whoever look than without Park. Look at his last 5 seasons. 1 bad year, and at or above 200 innings each year. Can he be a #1? Do we really care? He and Buehrle can be #1a and #1B, and we'll call it even.

This team can probably get to the playoffs without making either of these deals. Hoever, they will have no shot to beat either the A's or Yanks without them...


Just like to hear your ideas on my total pipe-dream!

Daver
12-13-2001, 04:21 PM
We just got rid of a gofer ball pitcher last season and you want to bring in another one in Park?

No thanks.

Randar68
12-13-2001, 04:32 PM
We just got rid of a gofer ball pitcher last season and you want to bring in another one in Park?

Take a look at the numbers, and I don't know how you defend that statement. He's the best on the market. Any other options?

We're not going to outspend the Yanks, but we have a chance to add significant talent at the expense of a few bucks that have been saved elsewhere...

Let's just sit pat, because we are never going to win a damn thing in the AL...

MLB sucks, plain and simple. The past 2 weeks has drained me of my love for the game...I just can't handle it.

We should contract 28 teams and just have a seven-game NY vs NY world series and save the rest of the country a whole lot of heart-ache, grief, and money...

I am going to stop watching Major League baseball if this is the way they think they are going to succeed...

Daver
12-13-2001, 04:40 PM
There is not a lot of good pitching available period,be it trade or free agency.I have even seen suggestions saying the Sox should trade for El Duque,how desperate is that?

Mathew
12-13-2001, 04:49 PM
I'm still young and I'm a free agent, as a bonus I'll play for the league minimum!

duke of dorwood
12-13-2001, 04:52 PM
This is NOT a World Series team right now. It's basically the same (if some of the sore arms come back) as 2000, and we were swept out of the playoffs.

Mathew
12-13-2001, 04:55 PM
But seriously if they did sign Chan Ho Ass I'd not complain but I'd be lying if I said I'd throw 12+mill at him. We don't have a management to buy anything. We've tried. The Yankees I do hate but I'll give them credit reluctantly for their ability to keep players in line and promote chemistry with a new bought lineup every month. Other teams have tried to throw a lot of money at players and their teams suck, the Yankees don't suck often if ever.

Pete Ward
12-13-2001, 06:22 PM
Give 28 year old Jason Schmidt for 5 years @ 7.5 mil per year.

Buehrle, Ritchie, Schmidt, Parque, Garland

Daver
12-13-2001, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Pete Ward
Give 28 year old Jason Schmidt for 5 years @ 7.5 mil per year.

Buehrle, Ritchie, Schmidt, Parque, Garland

Substitute Biddle for Parque and you may be on to something.

Paulwny
12-13-2001, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
My Plan:
- Deal a package of Lee, and a combination of players from the pool of Rowand/Ginter/Guerrier/Ulacia/Almonte/Valenzuela/etc to get Giles. He fits Reinsy's needs perfectly and could team with Maggs/Frank/Konerko/Valentin to form one of the best lineups in the game.



From the AP:

The Pirates are listening to offers for Giles, a proven run producer who is affordable by current-day standards with a $45 million contract that runs through 2005. But a limited trade clause allows him to be dealt to only six teams, and the White Sox aren't among them.

Giles, who lives in San Diego during the offseason, would accept a deal to the Padres, Dodgers, Giants, Rockies, Diamondbacks and Braves. His brother, Marcus, is a Braves infielder.

Giles reportedly would expand that list to include the Mariners and the Yankees, but not for another small- to mid-market team. The Pirates had a $52 million payroll last season they are cutting to $48 million, while the White Sox, who won the AL West in 2000, had a $67 million payroll in 2001.

Bmr31
12-13-2001, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by daver


Substitute Biddle for Parque and you may be on to something.

Biddle, LOL

Daver
12-13-2001, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


Biddle, LOL

What is your problem with Biddle Bmr?Outside of Buerhle he has more nads than any other Sox pitcher,he doesn't lose it when he is in a jam and always goes after the hitter,no matter what the count is.He would have won 15 games last year if Nardi didn't kill his arm and if he would have gotten some run support early in the season.If I remember correctly he lead the team in ERA for about 2 months.

Bmr31
12-13-2001, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by daver


What is your problem with Biddle Bmr?Outside of Buerhle he has more nads than any other Sox pitcher,he doesn't lose it when he is in a jam and always goes after the hitter,no matter what the count is.He would have won 15 games last year if Nardi didn't kill his arm and if he would have gotten some run support early in the season.If I remember correctly he lead the team in ERA for about 2 months.

lack of talent?

voodoochile
12-13-2001, 08:15 PM
Can Biddle overcome his injury problems. He has already had 2 major surgeries. Not good. I like the guys attitude and he has a decent fastball, but he tends to throw fat pitches at the worst possible moments and he cannot stay healthy.

Hope I'm wrong, I agree, the guy has nads...

Daver
12-13-2001, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


lack of talent?
So what you are saying is that a pitcher with little talent led the team in ERA in the hitter freindly AL?

I think I see a hole in your case.

Bmr31
12-13-2001, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by daver

So what you are saying is that a pitcher with little talent led the team in ERA in the hitter freindly AL?

I think I see a hole in your case.

lol excuse me? you may want to re-think what you just posted...

Bmr31
12-13-2001, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by daver


What is your problem with Biddle Bmr?Outside of Buerhle he has more nads than any other Sox pitcher,he doesn't lose it when he is in a jam and always goes after the hitter,no matter what the count is.He would have won 15 games last year if Nardi didn't kill his arm and if he would have gotten some run support early in the season.If I remember correctly he lead the team in ERA for about 2 months.

if i remember correctly, kips era was at or under 3 well into june.....does that make him great? cmom daver, come up with something concrete. The facts dont support you in either thread.....

Daver
12-13-2001, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


lol excuse me? you may want to re-think what you just posted...

Why?

Bmr31
12-13-2001, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by daver


Why?

Buehrle lead our team in era, biddle wasnt even close...

Daver
12-13-2001, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


Buehrle lead our team in era, biddle wasnt even close...

Check your stats,Biddle led the team in ERA for most of April and May.Biddles ERA got out of proportion when the Sox decided to make him pitch even though they knew he was hurt.Another reason to fire Nardi.

Bmr31
12-13-2001, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by daver


Check your stats,Biddle led the team in ERA for most of April and May.Biddles ERA got out of proportion when the Sox decided to make him pitch even though they knew he was hurt.Another reason to fire Nardi.

check your facts, kip wells lead our team in era up until june...

Daver
12-13-2001, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


check your facts, kip wells lead our team in era up until june...

As a starter or out of the bullpen?

Bmr31
12-13-2001, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by daver


As a starter or out of the bullpen?

both.

guillen4life13
12-13-2001, 09:00 PM
These are the moves I would make if I was KW, and these trades were accepted by the other team:

Trade Clayton and Lee for Giles
Trade Singleton, Guerrier, and a player to be named to the Angels for Darin Erstad
Trade Brian Simmons, Malone, and money or a player to be named for Jason Schmidt.
Sign Boomer to an incentive laiden deal, evaluate him, and most likely use him in the pen, unless he's good enough to start, in which case Glover goes to the pen.
If he becomes a starter, trade Gary Glover for a LH relief pitcher or two. This team can't only survive on Kelly Wunsch.

I think they should have pursued Hitchcock.
Then, the pitching staff is as follows

Buehrle
Schmidt
Ritchie
Garland
Glover (Boomer?)

Wunsch
Osuna
Foulke
Howry
Biddle
Wright
Parque
Rauch
Boomer (Glover?)

The lineup would be as follows, with projected BA's next to the name, as well as HR's, RBI:

CF Erstad .300 (realistically) 20, 70
SS Valentin .270 30, 80
RF Magglio Ordonez .310 35, 120
LF Brian Giles .305 38, 110
DH Frank Thomas .330 45, 140
1B Paul Konerko .290 32, 100
2B Durham .280 20, 80
3B Crede .250 15, 50
C Paul/Alomar/Johnson .240-.260, 25, 60

average BA of that lineup: about .287. And if you get a good year out of Durham (.290-.300), and Erstad (.350).

Giles and Ordonez are capable of .315 play as well, so if these circumstances were to occur, the average BA would be about .296
That would lead the league by far.
Bench:

Rowand
Graffanino
Liefer
The Catchers (rite now, they are all equal, so any of them will be on the bench)
That's an awesome team!!!

voodoochile
12-13-2001, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
These are the moves I would make if I was KW, and these trades were accepted by the other team:

Trade Clayton and Lee for Giles
Trade Singleton, Guerrier, and a player to be named to the Angels for Darin Erstad
Trade Brian Simmons, Malone, and money or a player to be named for Jason Schmidt.
Sign Boomer to an incentive laiden deal, evaluate him, and most likely use him in the pen, unless he's good enough to start, in which case Glover goes to the pen.
If he becomes a starter, trade Gary Glover for a LH relief pitcher or two. This team can't only survive on Kelly Wunsch.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Man pass the bong this way...

KempersRS
12-13-2001, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
These are the moves I would make if I was KW, and these trades were accepted by the other team:

Trade Clayton and Lee for Giles
Trade Singleton, Guerrier, and a player to be named to the Angels for Darin Erstad
Trade Brian Simmons, Malone, and money or a player to be named for Jason Schmidt.
Sign Boomer to an incentive laiden deal, evaluate him, and most likely use him in the pen, unless he's good enough to start, in which case Glover goes to the pen.
If he becomes a starter, trade Gary Glover for a LH relief pitcher or two. This team can't only survive on Kelly Wunsch.

I think they should have pursued Hitchcock.
Then, the pitching staff is as follows

Buehrle
Schmidt
Ritchie
Garland
Glover (Boomer?)

Wunsch
Osuna
Foulke
Howry
Biddle
Wright
Parque
Rauch
Boomer (Glover?)

The lineup would be as follows, with projected BA's next to the name, as well as HR's, RBI:

CF Erstad .300 (realistically) 20, 70
SS Valentin .270 30, 80
RF Magglio Ordonez .310 35, 120
LF Brian Giles .305 38, 110
DH Frank Thomas .330 45, 140
1B Paul Konerko .290 32, 100
2B Durham .280 20, 80
3B Crede .250 15, 50
C Paul/Alomar/Johnson .240-.260, 25, 60

average BA of that lineup: about .287. And if you get a good year out of Durham (.290-.300), and Erstad (.350).

Giles and Ordonez are capable of .315 play as well, so if these circumstances were to occur, the average BA would be about .296
That would lead the league by far.
Bench:

Rowand
Graffanino
Liefer
The Catchers (rite now, they are all equal, so any of them will be on the bench)
That's an awesome team!!!

Neither your Erstad nor Giles deal would ever happen in this century.

GASHWOUND
12-13-2001, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
With a solid core in place of Maggs, Frank, Buehrle, Konerko, etc., is the goal of this organization to win a few AL Central crowns and call it a decade? Our core players are not getting younger or further from FA. The time to strike is now. Even with all the posturing and loading up in NY.

My Plan:
- Deal a package of Lee, and a combination of players from the pool of Rowand/Ginter/Guerrier/Ulacia/Almonte/Valenzuela/etc to get Giles. He fits Reinsy's needs perfectly and could team with Maggs/Frank/Konerko/Valentin to form one of the best lineups in the game.
- Sign Chan Ho Park. Is he asking for 14 million per season??? Yes. Will he get it???? No. With both NY teams pretty much spent out, and everyone else but Texas seeming to be conservative, how much better would a rotation of Buehrle/Park/Richie/Garland/whoever look than without Park. Look at his last 5 seasons. 1 bad year, and at or above 200 innings each year. Can he be a #1? Do we really care? He and Buehrle can be #1a and #1B, and we'll call it even.

This team can probably get to the playoffs without making either of these deals. Hoever, they will have no shot to beat either the A's or Yanks without them...


Just like to hear your ideas on my total pipe-dream!

Yep, its a pipe-dream. I like the wy you hink. If only you were the GM. Park may give up some HRs, but he is an ACE. BUT...KW will not be signing any free-agents this year cause "he can't afford it" He said he was dumb founded when the Spanks signed "Jeremy" Giambi this afternoon. But we would have to give up Lee, Garland, Raush and another player to get Giles.

GASHWOUND
12-13-2001, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by Pete Ward
Give 28 year old Jason Schmidt for 5 years @ 7.5 mil per year.

Buehrle, Ritchie, Schmidt, Parque, Garland

Now THAT is a rotation I can agree to. I've been wanting KW to sign Schmidt. He can make this rotation Much better. BUT, KW is not signing free-agents this year. cause "we can't afford it"
Sigh...

But i like the rotation.

Pete Ward
12-14-2001, 08:13 AM
Now THAT is a rotation I can agree to. I've been wanting KW to sign Schmidt. He can make this rotation Much better. BUT, KW is not signing free-agents this year. cause "we can't afford it"
Sigh...

Yeah, but all I heard from KW was how we needed a pitcher and the 1st thing I heard at the winter meetings..... We tried to get Erstad (OF), then it was Giles (OF)? KW says one thing and does another. :?:

He should have concentrated on getting rid of Clayton. Ritchie is a good pick up. Singleton and Rowand can share time until Borchard is ready.

Kilroy
12-14-2001, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND
...KW will not be signing any free-agents this year cause "he can't afford it" ...

Why does KW take the heat for that when it is most obviously not his call? He's just the guy who has to try and do his job with that directive, not the one who decided it.

guillen4life13
12-14-2001, 11:34 PM
i'd mail the bong but i don't think i'd be able to escape without
getting into a ****load of trouble.


I dunno. Some of those trades may have been a little bit idealistic, but I feel that they would have been possible.

Just a hunch, but it's Pittsburgh who needs the young talent, not us really. We need more veterans.

I just would feel bad about giving away Carlos, because I just feel that he's a sleeper right there. I have a weird feeling (don't base ANYTHING on this) that he is the next Sammy Sosa.

We can never know until that time comes.

In any case, I think that this team needs a bit more depth, and this outfield may be very promising, but this team needs production NOW! Let Borchard have another year, most likely in AAA, and let him come up if he proves he is good enough. He's hardly got any experience, so let him learn!



smokin weed and listening to jethro tull. j/k.

MOVE TO THE SOUTHSIDE!! IF I COULD I WOULD!!! HYDE PARK!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Man pass the bong this way...