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Gammons Peter
10-26-2005, 12:55 PM
People give the Cell a bad rap but Houston's park is an absolute joke. The ridiculous hill in center, the flagpole, band box dimensions, the yellow homerun line (that apparently doesn't mean anything) the woman from the Quaker Oates box sitting in the first row, the cute little choo-choo train driven by the filthy hillbilly, people dressed like bumble bees, a retractable roof with magical powers......

tdh11
10-26-2005, 12:58 PM
I hear there is a golf hole behind the flag pole and if you get a hole in one you get a coupon for a free round and a gallon of orange juice

Fenway
10-26-2005, 12:58 PM
People give the Cell a bad rap but Houston's park is an absolute joke. The ridiculous hill in center, the flagpole, band box dimensions, the yellow homerun line (that apparently doesn't mean anything) the woman from the Quaker Oates box sitting in the first row, the cute little choo-choo train driven by filthy hillbilly, people dressed like bumble bees, a retractable roof with magical powers......

Ummm the "joke" is about to become SACRED GROUND for South Siders :smile:


but if Fox showed that hillbilly shouting WOO one more time :?:

kjkobs
10-26-2005, 01:01 PM
People give the Cell a bad rap but Houston's park is an absolute joke. The ridiculous hill in center, the flagpole, band box dimensions, the yellow homerun line (that apparently doesn't mean anything) the woman from the Quaker Oates box sitting in the first row, the cute little choo-choo train driven by the filthy hillbilly, people dressed like bumble bees, a retractable roof with magical powers......

Haha, I think thats the best Barbara Bush description I've ever heard....

bluestar
10-26-2005, 01:02 PM
I don't know about "worst" park, but I can't understand why they would build such a stadium. Why the hill in center field? Why the flag pole? Why the short porch in left? What were they thinking?

doublem23
10-26-2005, 01:03 PM
I don't know about "worst" park, but I can't understand why they would build such a stadium. Why the hill in center field? Why the flag pole? Why the short porch in left? What were they thinking?

It's quirky to be quirky.

Goose
10-26-2005, 01:07 PM
I don't know about "worst" park, but I can't understand why they would build such a stadium. Why the hill in center field? Why the flag pole? Why the short porch in left? What were they thinking?

The real question is why MLB would even allow such a thing to happen. I am all for having a unique park, but that HR line in left is simply worthless, and I don't just say that because of last night. The umps need to be able to definitely see if a ball is a HR or not. The bounce-off-the-wall-and-take-your-best-guess approach is ridiculous. If Houston wants a short left field like that, then they need to treat it like a Green Monster-type of set up and the ball needs to be hit in the seats for a HR. The zig-zag line is a joke.

bluestar
10-26-2005, 01:10 PM
It's quirky to be quirky.

I know, and I think that makes it even more aggravating. That stupid incline in center field is supposed to be some kind of tribute to another park where a similar incline was required due to differences in elevation. It's absurd.

StockdaleForVeep
10-26-2005, 01:11 PM
Every field has is bad issues, as for the homerun porch, hell, what were they thinkin when they put the wall in at fenway. To some thats a suicide\accident risk waiting to occur

bennyw41
10-26-2005, 01:12 PM
Haha, I think thats the best Barbara Bush description I've ever heard....

I can't believe you called Barbara Bush a hick in overalls.

bluestar
10-26-2005, 01:12 PM
The real question is why MLB would even allow such a thing to happen. I am all for having a unique park, but that HR line in left is simply worthless, and I don't just say that because of last night. The umps need to be able to definitely see if a ball is a HR or not. The bounce-off-the-wall-and-take-your-best-guess approach is ridiculous. If Houston wants a short left field like that, then they need to treat it like a Green Monster-type of set up and the ball needs to be hit in the seats for a HR. The zig-zag line is a joke.

I couldn't agree more! It is tough enough to judge whether balls are fair or foul with foul poles and so forth. It is unbelieveable anyone would be allowed to intentionally create a situation like that.

tdh11
10-26-2005, 01:15 PM
I can't believe you called Barbara Bush a hick in overalls.

ROFL

peeonwrigley
10-26-2005, 01:20 PM
This park is a joke. I agree that uniqueness is fine and should be encouraged. Lots of new parks are very unique - but not at the expense of the game.

A 315 ft short porch this day and age is absurd. Its got to be clear whether or not there is a homerun. A flag pole in the field of play? A hill in center? Just for the hell of it? The weird sharp edge in play in left-center discourages aggressive defense by the center fielder, and for someone who plays like Rowand its a broken bone waiting to happen - I don't care how much padding there is.

All that said, I don't have to play the game. The retractable roof is great for fans down there - hell, its a feature that I would have loved at the Sunday Boston game in July that hit like 120 degrees. I'm sure their fans like the place.

Baby Fisk
10-26-2005, 01:38 PM
I know, and I think that makes it even more aggravating. That stupid incline in center field is supposed to be some kind of tribute to another park where a similar incline was required due to differences in elevation. It's absurd.
Agreed. It's like a couple of 10-year-olds got together and threw in every "cool" idea they could think of.

"Let's stick a train on the roof! Everytime there's a home run, it can go racing around!"
"Cooolllll! Let's stick a flagpole in center field so players can crash into it!"
"Cooolllll! Even better -- let's put it on a hill so they can run up the hill and crash into it!"
"Cooolllll! This park is gonna be so awesome!"

TheOldRoman
10-26-2005, 01:45 PM
This park is a joke. I agree that uniqueness is fine and should be encouraged. Lots of new parks are very unique - but not at the expense of the game.

A 315 ft short porch this day and age is absurd. Its got to be clear whether or not there is a homerun. A flag pole in the field of play? A hill in center? Just for the hell of it? The weird sharp edge in play in left-center discourages aggressive defense by the center fielder, and for someone who plays like Rowand its a broken bone waiting to happen - I don't care how much padding there is.

All that said, I don't have to play the game. The retractable roof is great for fans down there - hell, its a feature that I would have loved at the Sunday Boston game in July that hit like 120 degrees. I'm sure their fans like the place.
The hill rarely comes into play, and the flagpole NEVER comes into play. The pole is 436 feet from homeplate. There would never ever be a case where the CF was running fullspeed backwards watching a fly ball and ran into it. It is so far back that any ball hit there would be way way over the CF's head. The CF might see the pole in front of him and have to navigate around it while chasing a ball, but he would never be able to run into it while chasing down a flyball.

Rustyzipper
10-26-2005, 01:47 PM
I was thinking the same last night... and who designed this park, or better yet, WHO ok`d the plans from MLB?

what a Joke the HR line is, they need a ump just sitting on the back fence just to see if a ball close to the live.

ohhh well, in just hours Our team will be world Champs... and the Quaker lady with have to hold her son`s weeping head.

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2005, 01:47 PM
The hill rarely comes into play, and the flagpole NEVER comes into play. The pole is 436 feet from homeplate. There would never ever be a case where the CF was running fullspeed backwards watching a fly ball and ran into it. It is so far back that any ball hit there would be way way over the CF's head. The CF might see the pole in front of him and have to navigate around it while chasing a ball, but he would never be able to run into it while chasing down a flyball.And the point to having it there would be....???

CaptainBallz
10-26-2005, 01:55 PM
I hear there is a golf hole behind the flag pole and if you get a hole in one you get a coupon for a free round and a gallon of orange juice

I hear next year they're adding a windmill between first and second. Not only do runners have to make sure their timing is PERFECT to get through the spinning blades of doom, but on the other side they have to find the orange flag in a tub of 'GAK'. Once they do, they can proceed to second where the fans get treated to....you guessed it, FIREWORKS!!!!

YAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Thanks St. Louis for "The Juicebox"---Appropriately childish.

peeonwrigley
10-26-2005, 01:57 PM
The hill rarely comes into play, and the flagpole NEVER comes into play. The pole is 436 feet from homeplate. There would never ever be a case where the CF was running fullspeed backwards watching a fly ball and ran into it. It is so far back that any ball hit there would be way way over the CF's head. The CF might see the pole in front of him and have to navigate around it while chasing a ball, but he would never be able to run into it while chasing down a flyball.

I've never seen the pole come into play. I have seen Lance Berkman race backward, run up the hill, and make an over-the-shoulder catch pretty close to it. It was one of the better plays I have ever seen. Had the ball been a few feet in the other direction, the pole would have come into play.

If a player has to slow down and let a ball drop because there's a flagpole in the way... I just don't see how that adds to the game.

Hendu
10-26-2005, 01:59 PM
Every field has is bad issues, as for the homerun porch, hell, what were they thinkin when they put the wall in at fenway. To some thats a suicide\accident risk waiting to occur

Fenway isn't a good comparison here. Fenway's dimensions were dictated by the lot and surrounding buildings. It's a neighborhood park fitted tightly into a dense urban area.

The Juice Box, on the other hand, was designed with all of its quirks just for the sake of being quirky. They had plenty of real estate to build whatever type of park they wanted, but chose to build a pinball machine instead of a baseball stadium.

gobears1987
10-26-2005, 02:12 PM
Every field has is bad issues, as for the homerun porch, hell, what were they thinkin when they put the wall in at fenway. To some thats a suicide\accident risk waiting to occurNo kidding, I heard Bill Buckner was on the ledge after he made his famous error.

TheOldRoman
10-26-2005, 02:20 PM
And the point to having it there would be....???
Well, that, I couldn't tell you.:D:

TheOldRoman
10-26-2005, 02:22 PM
I've never seen the pole come into play. I have seen Lance Berkman race backward, run up the hill, and make an over-the-shoulder catch pretty close to it. It was one of the better plays I have ever seen. Had the ball been a few feet in the other direction, the pole would have come into play.

If a player has to slow down and let a ball drop because there's a flagpole in the way... I just don't see how that adds to the game.
I believe I know the play you speak of, and the ball was caught at the base of the hill as he fell backwards. He wasn't at the top of the hill, but it was still remarkable that he got to the ball at that point. He had to be playing extremely deep in order to get to that point on a regular fly ball. It is a stupid idea, but I don't think it will ever hurt a player.

SaltyPretzel
10-26-2005, 02:24 PM
The hill rarely comes into play, and the flagpole NEVER comes into play. The pole is 436 feet from homeplate.

Actually, I believe Richie Sexton hit a monster blast the hit about 20 feet up the flagpole, making it just a long double.

slobes
10-26-2005, 02:24 PM
I'm pretty sure that Tal's Hill is paying tribute to some old minor league ballpark. But still, why they would put that in is beyond me.

tdh11
10-26-2005, 02:25 PM
I've never seen the pole come into play. I have seen Lance Berkman race backward, run up the hill, and make an over-the-shoulder catch pretty close to it. It was one of the better plays I have ever seen. Had the ball been a few feet in the other direction, the pole would have come into play.

If a player has to slow down and let a ball drop because there's a flagpole in the way... I just don't see how that adds to the game.

Do you remeber the other times he tripped on the hill... also i remeber biggio backing into the hill and almost losing his knees. Maybe thats why beltran wouldnt say

Reni
10-26-2005, 02:27 PM
well, what do you expect from a state that is almost nothing but strippers, cattle ranchers, sheltered rich white women and the cold hearted businessmen they are married to? :redneck

:tongue:

peeonwrigley
10-26-2005, 02:29 PM
I believe I know the play you speak of, and the ball was caught at the base of the hill as he fell backwards. He wasn't at the top of the hill, but it was still remarkable that he got to the ball at that point. He had to be playing extremely deep in order to get to that point on a regular fly ball. It is a stupid idea, but I don't think it will ever hurt a player.

My point of contention with the pole is that is a gimmick for the sake of a gimmick and really adds nothing. I don't think anyone will get hurt out there... I do think it could interfere with a defensive play, though.

In my original post the point I was making about an injury is the corner of the homerun porch in left-center field. It prevents aggressive defensive plays that could have potentially been made.

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2005, 02:31 PM
I believe I know the play you speak of, and the ball was caught at the base of the hill as he fell backwards. He wasn't at the top of the hill, but it was still remarkable that he got to the ball at that point. He had to be playing extremely deep in order to get to that point on a regular fly ball. It is a stupid idea, but I don't think it will ever hurt a player.Don't be too sure. Sooner or later someone is going to tear an Achilles' tendon on that hill.

Sarah
10-26-2005, 03:12 PM
Wow, old thoughts die hard...I totally thought this thread was about the Urinal.

And then, no.

-Sarah-

NWSox
10-26-2005, 03:12 PM
I hear next year they're adding a windmill between first and second. Not only do runners have to make sure their timing is PERFECT to get through the spinning blades of doom, but on the other side they have to find the orange flag in a tub of 'GAK'. Once they do, they can proceed to second where the fans get treated to....you guessed it, FIREWORKS!!!!

YAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

I know this is in teal, but I think this is the philosophy behind the park. For all of the talk about Houston fans, baseball in Houston needs gimmicks. These folks need some attraction other than baseball to keep coming out. All the explanations about the quirks being tributes to other parks are B.S. Houston wanted the park to be an attraction by itself.

bluestar
10-26-2005, 03:17 PM
I'm pretty sure that Tal's Hill is paying tribute to some old minor league ballpark. But still, why they would put that in is beyond me.

It is supposed to be a tribute of sorts to a number of historic ballparks, most notably Crosley Field, where the Cincinnati Reds played from 1912 - 1970. The difference is, those fields all required the slopes in the outfield because of their physical location. Minute Maid Park did not require the slope. As others have pointed out, it is there just to be quirky.

The seemingly arbitrary "yellow line" is probably the most ridiculous element of the whole park design, though.

Fenway
10-26-2005, 03:24 PM
doesn't look so hot from outer space either

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=astros&ll=29.756489,-95.354977&sll=29.763056,-95.363056&spn=0.002345,0.004729&sspn=0.157958,0.528717&t=k&hl=en

itsnotrequired
10-26-2005, 03:27 PM
doesn't look so hot from outer space either

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=astros&ll=29.756489,-95.354977&sll=29.763056,-95.363056&spn=0.002345,0.004729&sspn=0.157958,0.528717&t=k&hl=en

Well, it is clear now why they had to build the wacky angles in the outfield!:rolleyes:

AZChiSoxFan
10-26-2005, 03:35 PM
Don't be too sure. Sooner or later someone is going to tear an Achilles' tendon on that hill.

I thought I heard last offseason when the Astros were negotiating with Carlos Beltran, that Boras/Beltran were going to "require" the 'stros to remove the hill if he signed with them. Did anyone else hear that?

mterraza
10-26-2005, 03:46 PM
doesn't look so hot from outer space either

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=astros&ll=29.756489,-95.354977&sll=29.763056,-95.363056&spn=0.002345,0.004729&sspn=0.157958,0.528717&t=k&hl=en

It looks like a shoebox!? :?:

Nellie_Fox
10-26-2005, 04:21 PM
The hill rarely comes into play, and the flagpole NEVER comes into play. The pole is 436 feet from homeplate. There would never ever be a case where the CF was running fullspeed backwards watching a fly ball and ran into it. It is so far back that any ball hit there would be way way over the CF's head. The CF might see the pole in front of him and have to navigate around it while chasing a ball, but he would never be able to run into it while chasing down a flyball.Tell that to Willy Mays. His running, over-the-shoulder catch off of Vic Wertz in the '54 Series was further than that. I've seen it estimated at 450-460 feet from home plate when Willy ran it down.

Lip Man 1
10-26-2005, 04:23 PM
The worst park is baseball is Tropicana Field.
Dingy, dismal with few fans.

Lip

TheOldRoman
10-26-2005, 04:30 PM
Tell that to Willy Mays. His running, over-the-shoulder catch off of Vic Wertz in the '54 Series was further than that. I've seen it estimated at 450-460 feet from home plate when Willy ran it down.
I realize that, but he is probably the only human ever who would have made that play. Again, I am not saying the flagpole was a good idea, I am just saying it would be virtually impossible for a player to run into it while chasing a fly ball.

eriqjaffe
10-26-2005, 04:31 PM
The worst park is baseball is Tropicana Field.
Dingy, dismal with few fans.

LipAnd to think of how close that came to being home of the White Sox.

Danieljack80
10-26-2005, 07:16 PM
After visiting the park several times, I can tell you this:

It's not that bad of a park. Sure it has the gimmicks, but its no worse than Commerica Park in Detroit which actually has carnival rides inside the stadium, and a 420 foot centerfield with a fountain festooned with different colors that spray whenever (once every blue moon) a "Tigger" hits a homerun. In the era of retro ballparks, Minute Maid park packed a lot of stuff inside a "shoebox" and made it a very fan friendly environment.

Additionally, this park has been credited by many Houston economists as revitalizing the downtown area of Houston bringing back new business, bars and restaurants which was once run down, and crime-infested. That is more than we can say about the "Cell." I'm glad that Jimbo's is still around, but the economic effects of our homefield just don't measure up.

Biggest "con" for Minute Maid: 16 oz. Budweiser beers = $7!!!:gulp:

Biggest "Pro" for Minute Maid: Chopped BBQ beef Sandwich= delicious

Go White Sox!

C-Dawg
10-26-2005, 07:34 PM
I agree with the opinions that they just made it weird on purpose. I wonder if the novelty will wear off eventually? A few 70-win seasons in that park and the fans will be looking upon the quirks as a cruel joke.

Despite the criticisms the Cell received back in the mid-90s, its clean lines, good sightlines, tasteful architecture, and lack of gimmicks will maybe someday earn it some respect throughout the rest of the baseball world. Heck its already happening - both Berman & Co and Buck & McCarver were very complimentary regarding the renovations.

Fenway
10-26-2005, 07:43 PM
The worst park is baseball is Tropicana Field.
Dingy, dismal with few fans.

Lip

it wasn't so great for hockey either

Brian26
10-26-2005, 08:41 PM
I don't know about "worst" park, but I can't understand why they would build such a stadium.

I don't think Minute Maid is worse than that dump in St. Petersburg that the Sox almost ended up calling their home field. But, yes, Minute Maid is a joke.

Daver
10-26-2005, 08:45 PM
Fenway Park is the biggest dump I have ever been in, bar none.

ode to veeck
10-26-2005, 08:50 PM
The hill rarely comes into play, and the flagpole NEVER comes into play. The pole is 436 feet from homeplate. There would never ever be a case where the CF was running fullspeed backwards watching a fly ball and ran into it. It is so far back that any ball hit there would be way way over the CF's head. The CF might see the pole in front of him and have to navigate around it while chasing a ball, but he would never be able to run into it while chasing down a flyball.


Bull****, I remember when it was 440 to dead center in the old Comiskey Park and a certain CF named Chet Lemon who regularly climbed its corners chasing well hit fly balls. I would think Rowand would do the same pretty regularly, if he played in Minute Maid year round.

That hill is ****ing ridiculous. I can't believe they were allowed to have it, given it's not even that old of a park. Hell I remember when the Astrodome was new.

WinOrDyeTrying
10-26-2005, 08:58 PM
On a related note, the "Killer Bees" intro has to be the worst/most annoying intro in baseball.

jabrch
10-26-2005, 09:03 PM
The hill rarely comes into play, and the flagpole NEVER comes into play.

Then I have an idea...PUT BOTH OF THEM OUTSIDE THE BALLPARK IF THEY AREN'T GOING TO COME INTO PLAY!

ode to veeck
10-26-2005, 09:04 PM
On a related note, the "Killer Bees" intro has to be the worst/most annoying intro in baseball.

Soon to be the "Dead Bees" and it will go from BZZZZZZ ZZZZZ BZZZZ ZZZZ to

Zzzzzzz .... phhhhffftt ....

Knoxville Sox
10-26-2005, 09:55 PM
The problem with that hill in center is the incline. The natural inclines at older parks like Crosley had a more gradual angle than that monstrosity in Houston.

I've seen some highlights of center fielders making plays on that hill. Rarely have I seen one of them pop up without some pain in the knees. No doubt in my mind it will destroy someone's career at some point.

It reminds me of that short fence at the old Atlanta Fulton-County Stadium. There was one prospect with the Braves named Brian Asselstine. He jumped over that old chicken wire fence to make a catch, busted his knees, and never was the same player after that.

The Braves, being the class organization that they were in the 1970s and 1980s, refused to acknowledge the problem and kept that fence in place for at least a decade after Asselstine's injury.

dropkick371
10-26-2005, 11:08 PM
That, and natural inclines in older parks weren't put in as a joke, like the hill in Houston was. Jabrch is right. You can avoid having them be a factor by just not including them.

That said, I've never been to Minute Maid, so I can't really assess whether or not it's the worst in the majors. It is, perhaps, the most clearly gimmicky in the majors, and it's interesting that they were able to construct a roof with <i>phenomenal cosmic powers</i>, but meh. Whatever.

Mr.Creosote
10-26-2005, 11:42 PM
A but its no worse than Commerica Park in Detroit which actually has carnival rides inside the stadium, and a 420 foot centerfield with a fountain festooned with different colors that spray whenever (once every blue moon) a "Tigger" hits a homerun.
Biggest "con" for Minute Maid: 16 oz. Budweiser beers = $7!!!:gulp:

Biggest "Pro" for Minute Maid: Chopped BBQ beef Sandwich= delicious

Go White Sox!

The big difference is that Comerica doesn't have the distractions ON the playing field. It's a great place to catch a ballgame because there are no real Tiger fans. I was at the Central Division clincher and it was a perfect day for baseball. In the 60's with no wind and it was the last home game for the Tigers. There couldn't have been more than 12.5K people there. I've walked up to the ticket box 20 minutes B/4 first pitch and gotten 6th row seats numerous times when they were playing the Sox. No fan support means great parking also. Of course, Detroit is a BITCH to get out of after a day game since nobody actually lives in the city. Week-ends and night games are the key there. This is the best place to see the Hawks also, although the "Joe" is pretty much a ****hole!

Go Sox!!!

goofymsfan
10-27-2005, 01:11 AM
Of the parks I've been to, for worst fan experience would be Angel's Stadium. It's a beautiful stadium, but the fans make it a place I will never visit again.

The Oakland Colliseum or what ever it is called currently, is pretty much a dump, but I actually had a really fun time there.

Dodger Stadium is also a dump, it has a lot of history, but it's still a dump. I may have had a better feeling about that park if I were able to visit other levels of the park other than the level for which I had tickets.

bringfrankback
10-27-2005, 01:59 AM
Don't be too sure. Sooner or later someone is going to tear an Achilles' tendon on that hill.

You could see ...i think it was Taveras....his legs almost give out when he had to race up the hill to make a catch in the NLDS (i think? anyone remember this?) But yeah definitely gonna screw either themselves or an opponent over when someone gets hurt because of that stupid hill.

Hitmen77
10-27-2005, 04:33 PM
People give the Cell a bad rap but Houston's park is an absolute joke. The ridiculous hill in center, the flagpole, band box dimensions, the yellow homerun line (that apparently doesn't mean anything) the woman from the Quaker Oates box sitting in the first row, the cute little choo-choo train driven by the filthy hillbilly, people dressed like bumble bees, a retractable roof with magical powers......

I agree that Minute Maid Park at Enron Field is a joke. Peter Gammons (i think) made some crack about the "silly" home run line quirk in the park. They should never have approved that hill and flagpole.

Nellie_Fox
10-27-2005, 04:38 PM
They should never have approved that hill and flagpole.Actually, I'm surprised the Players' Association hasn't grieved it, given the (easily avoidable) injury potential.

gogochisox1917
10-27-2005, 04:43 PM
Everyone in Houston seems to just love this park...except my husband and I. We hate it. When the roof is closed (I hate "domes" anyways) it's like a sweat box. The concourses are dark. I just lacks character. We always make a couple of trips to Ameriquest field in Arlington every year to see the Sox and we always come home talking about how much better it is than MM.

thechico
10-27-2005, 05:20 PM
I'll repeat my comment from the game 3 chat:

Minute Maid park is like a Fisher Price busytime funset.

Man, I gotta move back to IL so I can get to more games...

tstrike2000
10-27-2005, 05:38 PM
Actually, I believe Richie Sexton hit a monster blast the hit about 20 feet up the flagpole, making it just a long double.

You would be correct. When Sexson played for the Brewers, it hit like 1/2 to 3/4 up the pole. Since the pole was in play, they measured it to be about a 510 foot double.