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View Full Version : The Crede/Oswalt/Garner/Everett Altercation


lowesox
10-26-2005, 10:15 AM
Was I the only one that totally loved this moment? When I saw Garner barking at Crede I was so pissed. And then when I saw Crazy Carl mouthing off Garner I started killing myself laughing. I hate Garner and to see Carl stick up for Crede like that and put Garner in his place was priceless to me.

This team is so unified and fiery. Greatest sox team ever.

mcfish
10-26-2005, 10:17 AM
What was that anyway? I thought Garner was barking at the ump until I saw that Carl was yelling back. What were they all yelling about?

Iguana775
10-26-2005, 10:17 AM
Crazy Carl is the man!!

MsSoxVixen22
10-26-2005, 10:20 AM
I think that was the 2cd time I've seen Crede get that pissed and rightly so! I personally thought Garner was yelling at the ump and or Oswalt :redface: I laughed my ass off too when I saw Carl mouthing off! Good to know Ozzie and Crazy Carl had his back!

Unregistered
10-26-2005, 10:21 AM
What was that anyway? I thought Garner was barking at the ump until I saw that Carl was yelling back. What were they all yelling about?Oswalt hit Crede in the ribs when he homered in the previous AB. Ozzie and everyone else in the Sox dugout knows it was typical Phil Garner bull**** tactics and started telling him so.

Naturally, Garner pretended like it was an accident, but he has too much history as a bush-league, mustachioed douchebag to fool anybody.

Baby Fisk
10-26-2005, 10:25 AM
Carl's slash-across-the-throat gestures were awesome. This team takes no **** from anyone. Houston is done. Great job Garner.

mcfish
10-26-2005, 10:29 AM
Oswalt hit Crede in the ribs when he homered in the previous AB. Ozzie and everyone else in the Sox dugout knows it was typical Phil Garner bull**** tactics and started telling him so.

Naturally, Garner pretended like it was an accident, but he has too much history as a bush-league, mustachioed douchebag to fool anybody.Anyone who would hit a batter on purpose - manager calling it or pitcher throwing it - just for retaliation in a 1 run World Series game doesn't deserve to win the game.

Thanks for the clarification.

soxstarter
10-26-2005, 10:29 AM
And the stool throwing after the game...that clip will be played and played. Geez Garner, better keep that roof open...you might need something to keep you cool tonight too!

mcfish
10-26-2005, 10:30 AM
And the stool throwing after the game...that clip will be played and played. Geez Garner, better keep that roof open...you might need something to keep you cool tonight too!That was classic - and it was during the game. He was throwing stools as Blum was rounding the bases.

lowesox
10-26-2005, 10:32 AM
I thought Garner was barking at the ump until I saw that Carl was yelling back.

Pretty sure Garner was yelling at Crede for throwing the bat down and yelling.

JorgeFabregas
10-26-2005, 10:34 AM
Carl seems to like to defend Joe. When he was looking for his wife at the end of the Angels series reporters kept jamming the microphone is his mouth to ask him about, among other things, Paul Konerko and the starting pitchers. He kept saying stuff like "That's already out there, but we need to talk about our number 8 hitter, Joe Crede!"

winitall
10-26-2005, 10:37 AM
I don't think that Garner told Oswalt to throw at Crede. As much as I dislike Garner, no one is stupid enough to do that when down by 1 run with runners at 1st and 2nd - IN THE WORLD SERIES. That's what I thought made the exchange funny - the benches yelling at each other on a play that was probably unintentional. Intense.

Ortegels
10-26-2005, 10:40 AM
Watched it a few times on Tivo this morning. Garner did at one point yell... "Shut up you fat ****" So, I assumed he was yelling at Carl. I can definately see Carl being the protective big brother of these guys. Gotta love the intensity.

1917
10-26-2005, 10:41 AM
Oswalt was crying all night to the umps, taking his hat off, I don't Garner told him to do it, I just think he lost his cool and did it on his own...Crede asked Oswalt "how his father was" going down to first base, Garner heard that I'm sure.

batmanZoSo
10-26-2005, 10:44 AM
Oswalt hit Crede in the ribs when he homered in the previous AB. Ozzie and everyone else in the Sox dugout knows it was typical Phil Garner bull**** tactics and started telling him so.

Naturally, Garner pretended like it was an accident, but he has too much history as a bush-league, mustachioed douchebag to fool anybody.

I like the way you throw in the moustache. Great, great work. :D:

Randar68
10-26-2005, 10:45 AM
I don't think that Garner told Oswalt to throw at Crede. As much as I dislike Garner, no one is stupid enough to do that when down by 1 run with runners at 1st and 2nd - IN THE WORLD SERIES. That's what I thought made the exchange funny - the benches yelling at each other on a play that was probably unintentional. Intense.

He got behind Crede with an open base and Crede had hurt him previously...

Why not hit him and get to someone you have more confidence you can get out? Pitchers in the past used to do it more than today, but guys talk about getting down 3-0 to certain pitchers and knowing that the next one was going to be square in their back if there was an open base...

tebman
10-26-2005, 10:48 AM
Oswalt was crying all night to the umps, taking his hat off, I don't Garner told him to do it, I just think he lost his cool and did it on his own...Crede asked Oswalt "how his father was" going down to first base, Garner heard that I'm sure.

Is there a story there, or was Crede just firing a random shot? I agree that Oswalt is a great pitcher, but he's also a [insert personal hygiene product here] with his grimaces, his cap action, and his puerile body language after every non-strike call. I'd love to know what Crede said to get his goat.

tdh11
10-26-2005, 10:50 AM
If this were a non-playoff game I would have wanted JG to hit Berkman or Ensberg the next inning. But I did not want that and knew Ozzie wouldnt be that stupid.

What I want to know is what garner gestured after berk stole second in the 9th. I think he was pointing at his head look toward the White Sox dugout. I'll have to check that on the version I recorded. Did anybody else see that?

tdh11
10-26-2005, 10:51 AM
make that "stole third"

mcfish
10-26-2005, 10:53 AM
Is there a story there, or was Crede just firing a random shot? I agree that Oswalt is a great pitcher, but he's also a TOOTHPASTE with his grimaces, his cap action, and his puerile body language after every non-strike call. I'd love to know what Crede said to get his goat.I love madlibs.

mjharrison72
10-26-2005, 10:57 AM
Oswalt hit Crede in the ribs when he homered in the previous AB. Ozzie and everyone else in the Sox dugout knows it was typical Phil Garner bull**** tactics and started telling him so.

Naturally, Garner pretended like it was an accident, but he has too much history as a bush-league, mustachioed douchebag to fool anybody.
Outstanding post. :thumbsup:

house215
10-26-2005, 10:57 AM
I loved that too. They should make statues of the entire 2005 roster!

daveeym
10-26-2005, 10:58 AM
Carl's slash-across-the-throat gestures were awesome. This team takes no **** from anyone. Houston is done. Great job Garner. Carl threw a couple f bombs in there and a mf'r as well. I was laughing my ass off. I really thought he was going over the fence as well, he looked like a wrestler in a tag team event.

1951Campbell
10-26-2005, 11:25 AM
It is just so easy--and so much fun--to push Garner's buttons.

krohnjw
10-26-2005, 11:32 AM
LOL, carl did the Throat slash? If this was the NFL that would have been a personal :D:

I am going to splice out the footage of Garner throwing the stool tonight for posterity (and because I thought it was hilarious)

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2005, 11:44 AM
Carl threw a couple f bombs in there and a mf'r as well. I was laughing my ass off. I really thought he was going over the fence as well, he looked like a wrestler in a tag team event.Actually, I thought it was more CC just getting in Garner's head than anything. And it worked to perfection. Not that it's that difficult.:tongue:

Garner has made a complete ass of himself this whole series. Yesterday he and his players are out there whining about the roof instead of thinking about the game. Then in the post-game presser he just ripped his team. Great motivational tactics, dope.

1917
10-26-2005, 11:45 AM
Is there a story there, or was Crede just firing a random shot? I agree that Oswalt is a great pitcher, but he's also a [insert personal hygiene product here] with his grimaces, his cap action, and his puerile body language after every non-strike call. I'd love to know what Crede said to get his goat.

Well I would tell you what he really said, but I got a seven day vacation for using the language filter before the Boston game 3 and I vowed I would never walk that line again....I know many do it, I just got caught! Longest 7 days of my life it seemed! :whiner:

bluestar
10-26-2005, 11:45 AM
Garner was upset because Crede was letting Oswalt know how unhappy he was with the situation -- and in no uncertain terms. I doubt Oswalt meant to hit Crede, and I am sure Garner did not call for it in that situation, but I do think Oswalt meant to throw a tight, inside pitch to "send a message" to Crede. The pitch was more inside than Oswalt intended. When Garner started yelling at Crede, the Sox bench got involved.

winitall
10-26-2005, 11:53 AM
He got behind Crede with an open base and Crede had hurt him previously...

Why not hit him and get to someone you have more confidence you can get out? Pitchers in the past used to do it more than today, but guys talk about getting down 3-0 to certain pitchers and knowing that the next one was going to be square in their back if there was an open base...

I agree with you, but if you're Oswalt, why do that to load the bases when you're ahead in the count (I believe it was a 1-2 count)? Unless he is a complete idiot (which may be true based on his quote about the roof at MM / playing conditions in Chicago), you make at least 2 more pitches that Crede can't do anything with - and then if you want to hit him, do it on the full count instead of walking him. At least then you have the chance to strike Crede out and end the inning.

dmac
10-26-2005, 11:55 AM
That was classic - and it was during the game. He was throwing stools as Blum was rounding the bases.

bush league move
bush league manager
bush league team

SOXPHILE
10-26-2005, 11:57 AM
Put me down too as one of those who started laughing my...umm..posterior off when Garner slammed that stool down after Blum's HR. That guy is such a knob. The whole thing with Crede, Carl, and ol' Phil was hilarious too. Garner is so easy to goad into losing his temper and having a meltdown, and when he does, you just have to laugh.

Palehose13
10-26-2005, 12:16 PM
Well I would tell you what he really said, but I got a seven day vacation for using the language filter before the Boston game 3 and I vowed I would never walk that line again....I know many do it, I just got caught! Longest 7 days of my life it seemed! :whiner:

You can type the words. The language filter will add the *'s. Just don't try to substitute stuff and you'll be fine.

For example:

Phil Garner always pulls this bull**** and is a **** faced mother ****er.

Chitowndj72
10-26-2005, 12:27 PM
If you guys replay it, when they first started showing the Sox bench Ozzie was putting up his arms and saying "What?! What?!" like if to say come get some, Garner!! :duel:

tebman
10-26-2005, 12:28 PM
I agree with you, but if you're Oswalt, why do that to load the bases when you're ahead in the count (I believe it was a 1-2 count)? Unless he is a complete idiot (which may be true based on his quote about the roof at MM / playing conditions in Chicago), you make at least 2 more pitches that Crede can't do anything with - and then if you want to hit him, do it on the full count instead of walking him. At least then you have the chance to strike Crede out and end the inning.
That's what I didn't understand, and why I wondered if there was more history with Oswalt and Crede. A plunk in the ribs sure looks like a purpose pitch to me, especially from a pitcher renowned for his control. Why on Earth would he want to put Crede on base in that situation? If the Astros were being blown away and Oswalt had nothing to lose, then I wouldn't like it, but I'd understand the motivation. But in a one-run WS game, with your team down 2-0 in the series?

Maybe "complete idiot" is the correct answer. :tongue:

wassagstdu
10-26-2005, 12:32 PM
That's what I didn't understand, and why I wondered if there was more history with Oswalt and Crede. A plunk in the ribs sure looks like a purpose pitch to me, especially from a pitcher renowned for his control. Why on Earth would he want to put Crede on base in that situation? If the Astros were being blown away and Oswalt had nothing to lose, then I wouldn't like it, but I'd understand the motivation. But in a one-run WS game, with your team down 2-0 in the series?

Maybe "complete idiot" is the correct answer. :tongue:

I think it's called an "amygdala hijack" -- like road rage. No way that was not intentional, however stupid and counterproductive it was.

.

Jjav829
10-26-2005, 12:33 PM
There's no way that HBP was intentional. I don't know why everyone thinks it was. Oswalt had just given up 5 runs in the inning. There were runners on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs. He went 0-1, then 0-2 on Crede. He threw a ball on 0-2 and was one strike from getting out of what was a horrible inning for him. So then on 1-2 he intentional hits Crede to load the bases on purpose? I don't think so. That HBP put another runner on, another runner in scoring position and meant that Oswalt had to start fresh on a new hitter even though he had 2 strikes on Crede. It was not intentional.

antitwins13
10-26-2005, 12:35 PM
I was glad to see Carl stand up for his teamate like that. We're not gonna take any bull from anybody at this point.

Vernam
10-26-2005, 12:35 PM
You can type the words. The language filter will add the *'s. Just don't try to substitute stuff and you'll be fine.

For example:

Phil Garner always pulls this bull**** and is a **** faced mother ****er.I'm quite the TV lip reader, so here's what I think Garner was saying to Carl:

**** you, you piece of ****! You ****ing ********er!

Always glad to be of service,

Vernam

BarbG
10-26-2005, 12:45 PM
I'm quite the TV lip reader, so here's what I think Garner was saying to Carl:

**** you, you piece of ****! You ****ing ********er!

That's what we got out of it too.


VERY classy guy.

ja1022
10-26-2005, 12:58 PM
I'm quite the TV lip reader, so here's what I think Garner was saying to Carl:

**** you, you piece of ****! You ****ing ********er!

Always glad to be of service,

Vernam

I think he added something about Carl's weight as well, something like you fat ****.

CHEESESOXER
10-26-2005, 01:10 PM
I also laughed my "garner" off at Carl.

bluestar
10-26-2005, 01:15 PM
There's no way that HBP was intentional. I don't know why everyone thinks it was. Oswalt had just given up 5 runs in the inning. There were runners on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs. He went 0-1, then 0-2 on Crede. He threw a ball on 0-2 and was one strike from getting out of what was a horrible inning for him. So then on 1-2 he intentional hits Crede to load the bases on purpose? I don't think so. That HBP put another runner on, another runner in scoring position and meant that Oswalt had to start fresh on a new hitter even though he had 2 strikes on Crede. It was not intentional.

Ah, a voice of reason.

guyinleftfield
10-26-2005, 01:21 PM
I am not worried about a piece of **** like Phil Garner, or his pitiful cry baby Astro clubhouse.:whiner: This is the same guy that was managing the Detroit Tigers, during the infamous "Basebrawl" in 2000. He just showed last night what a no class ****face he really is. All on national television. Oswalt was suppose to save them, and he sucked. We beat all there great starters, and toasted there so called awesome bullpen. Let's finish this tonight. Go Sox! SWEEP! :D:

HebrewHammer
10-26-2005, 01:37 PM
There's no doubt in my mind that it was intentional. If I remember correctly he had just thrown a borderline pitch and not gotten the call, the next pitch was in Crede's ribs. Doesn't Oswalt have a bit of a history of stuff like this? It also wouldn't be the first time a pitcher on a Phil Garner team used goon tactics.

Then there is this incident:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3413615

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Ensberg got similar treatment from Garcia tonight. Not this six guns, but a pitch in the ribs.

Sxy Mofo
10-26-2005, 01:42 PM
There's no way that HBP was intentional. I don't know why everyone thinks it was. Oswalt had just given up 5 runs in the inning. There were runners on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs. He went 0-1, then 0-2 on Crede. He threw a ball on 0-2 and was one strike from getting out of what was a horrible inning for him. So then on 1-2 he intentional hits Crede to load the bases on purpose? I don't think so. That HBP put another runner on, another runner in scoring position and meant that Oswalt had to start fresh on a new hitter even though he had 2 strikes on Crede. It was not intentional.


Totally agree.


BUT I don't blame crede for being mad, and for the team for sticking up for one another... especially carl and Oz.

I tried to read carls lips, and I'm pretty sure I made out a "You piece of **** mother****er" That was great.

hawkjt
10-26-2005, 01:47 PM
Who would you rather face right now , SuperJoe, or Juan? . Actually a tough choice since they are both going well but Joe had just hit a homer earlier in the inning and you can't get in a better groove than that!!

I think Oswalt knows what Garner would want him to do cuz he wanted to do - hit Joe right in the ribs with that 95 heater of his.

Joe handled it super.

Go Freddy!!!

samram
10-26-2005, 02:55 PM
Actually, I thought it was more CC just getting in Garner's head than anything. And it worked to perfection. Not that it's that difficult.:tongue:

Garner has made a complete ass of himself this whole series. Yesterday he and his players are out there whining about the roof instead of thinking about the game. Then in the post-game presser he just ripped his team. Great motivational tactics, dope.

I guess I'm not the only one surprised at how mentally weak the Astros are. The whining about the roof was basically an admission that noise at the Cell bothered them. I also don't know what good Garner's abandoning the team in the press conference did for them. It seems like they've been looking for excuses since the Series began. The only one they need is the Sox are better than they are- that explains it all.

Soxfan_25
10-26-2005, 03:17 PM
The only scenario I could have thought of that might have been better would have been instead of Phil throwing the chair it might have been much better if he had fallen off the chair, or maybe thrown it against the wall and it bounces back to hit him in the mouth. Phil Garner, as the boys from the Score would say, you're a jagbag!

HotelWhiteSox
10-26-2005, 03:30 PM
I think it was intentional, Crede has owned them for the series, and I think he'd rather face Uribe then Crede, who had already touched him up, but whatever

I loved how Crede took offense to it, yelling "****ing bitch !" back at Oswalt, then I absolutely lost it when Carl was yelling at Garner. I was laughing at that for a couple of innings, and still laugh out loud when thinking about it. Seeing Ozzie and Carl almost band together in an attempt to curse out the opposing dugout, I love this team :D:

jmcts
10-26-2005, 03:42 PM
THESE GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!

Crazy Carl yelling was classic TV. Of course, it was on Fox, just their style. I'm surprised they didn't use that exchange as one of their "Sounds of the Game" snippets.

HBP -- unintentional. Lee Harvey almost hit Dye in the same inning. He was losing his stuff and losing his cool.

Crede was justified. I bet that hurt like a "******g bitch!"

TRK
10-26-2005, 04:02 PM
Can you imagine what Carl would do to Garner if he got a hold him? It might end up something like this...

http://www.geocities.com/tim61478/hot_carl.gif


(I don't have Photoshop on this machine so I did the best I could.)

eriqjaffe
10-26-2005, 04:04 PM
For the record, here is what a hearing-impaired friend says he lip-read:

Garner: **** you, you ****ing cock******!

Everett: **** you, shut your g** d*** mouth!

Garner: **** you, you ****ing f***ot!

Craig Grebeck
10-26-2005, 04:23 PM
For the record, I believe it was Fat ****...which is way better

god, i love carl everett

Lip Man 1
10-26-2005, 04:25 PM
The real Phil Garner is coming out now, the one who hates Chicago and all things White Sox.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2005, 04:28 PM
It may be already too late but...

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=902378#post902378

Maybe the mods will be in a good mood.

[Admin Edit]

Please don't quote violations. You are then as guilty as the initial offender.

ChiSoxRowand
10-26-2005, 04:32 PM
It wasn't intentional, but I loved seeing Carl standing up for Joe. Only Carl would get ejected from a game he's not playing in. As a matter of fact, he got kicked out of a game in Montreal last year when he was on the DL.

Ol' No. 2
10-26-2005, 04:32 PM
I guess I'm not the only one surprised at how mentally weak the Astros are. The whining about the roof was basically an admission that noise at the Cell bothered them. I also don't know what good Garner's abandoning the team in the press conference did for them. It seems like they've been looking for excuses since the Series began. The only one they need is the Sox are better than they are- that explains it all.Can you in your wildest imagination conceive of Ozzie yakking about the roof or letting his team get distracted by this stuff? Contrast with Ozzie's response to the whole thing (paraphrased):

"They can close the roof and build another one over the top of it. We don't care."

The Astros are falling apart and Garner is making it worse.

Vernam
10-26-2005, 04:34 PM
The real Phil Garner is coming out now, the one who hates Chicago and all things White Sox.For me, the best part was that Garner and Carl were screaming all those f-bombs with the President's mom sitting square in the middle of them, clearly within earshot. :redneck

Vernam

samram
10-26-2005, 04:41 PM
Can you in your wildest imagination conceive of Ozzie yakking about the roof or letting his team get distracted by this stuff? Contrast with Ozzie's response to the whole thing (paraphrased):

"They can close the roof and build another one over the top of it. We don't care."

The Astros are falling apart and Garner is making it worse.

Exactly. The roof is caving in on the Astros (yeah, bad, I know, but I'm still going with it :D:). The difference between Guillen and Garner is Ozzie has figured out what should and shouldn't matter to his team and when to hold them accountable and when to hold himself accountable for poor performance. Conversely, Garner lives in a house without mirrors and the Astros look like Garner's Detroit and Milwaukee teams.

Baby Fisk
10-26-2005, 05:53 PM
THESE GUYS ARE AWESOME!!!

Crazy Carl yelling was classic TV. Of course, it was on Fox, just their style. I'm surprised they didn't use that exchange as one of their "Sounds of the Game" snippets.


:rolling:
Society hasn't quite regressed to this point...but it will someday.

Sell Jerry Sell!
10-26-2005, 06:17 PM
Someone in the media asked him about the incident with Garner and Carl's reply was (not an exact quote but close)

"my family was being threatened and if they are being threatened I got their back"

I think that sums up this team in a nutshell, everyone has everyone else's back

Mr. White Sox
10-26-2005, 06:37 PM
And the stool throwing after the game...that clip will be played and played. Geez Garner, better keep that roof open...you might need something to keep you cool tonight too!

And, this was only four pages overdue:

:tealpolice:

:tealtutor:
:wink:

miker
10-26-2005, 06:41 PM
For the record, here is what a hearing-impaired friend says he lip-read:

Garner: **** you, you ****ing cock******!

Everett: **** you, shut your g** d*** mouth!

Garner: **** you, you ****ing f***ot!
Definitely more entertaining than anything Buck and McCarver said last night...

PaleHoseGeorge
10-26-2005, 07:07 PM
Now I'm confused. Can somebody direct me to a web page with definitive ball/strike information about the pitch that hit Crede? And was first base open when he got hit?
:?:

At the time it happened I was sure Oswalt simply pitched too high and tight and made a mistake. However I can't remember the exact game situation and given what a reptilean mind I know Phil Garner possesses, I wouldn't be surprised to know he and Oswalt paid back Crede's dinger with a free hit.

Certainly Joe was chirping going down to first base... no doubt about that.

samram
10-26-2005, 07:22 PM
Now I'm confused. Can somebody direct me to a web page with definitive ball/strike information about the pitch that hit Crede? And was first base open when he got hit?
:?:

At the time it happened I was sure Oswalt simply pitched too high and tight and made a mistake. However I can't remember the exact game situation and given what a reptilean mind I know Phil Garner possesses, I wouldn't be surprised to know he and Oswalt paid back Crede's dinger with a free hit.

Certainly Joe was chirping going down to first base... no doubt about that.

Ok, I just watched it on the DVR. The count was 1-2 and first base was not open. I think it just got away from him.

Phil Garner, however, is still an *******.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-26-2005, 07:23 PM
Now I'm confused. Can somebody direct me to a web page with definitive ball/strike information about the pitch that hit Crede? And was first base open when he got hit?

I checked ESPN. Their recap says there were runners on first (Rowand who walked) and second base (Pierzynski who doubled) before Crede was hit. So first base definitely was not open when Oswalt threw the high and tight pitch.

However ESPN doesn't say what the count was, so I'm still not sure if Oswalt fell behind in the count. Clearly he would rather pitch to Uribe than Crede with two out and runners in scoring position.

PaleHoseGeorge
10-26-2005, 07:25 PM
Ok, I just watched it on the DVR. The count was 1-2 and first base was not open. I think it just got away from him.

Phil Garner, however, is still an *******.

Thanks. I agree. No way he hits Crede with a 1-2 pitch and first base occupied in a 1-run World Series game.

So I'm guessing Garner was chirping at Crede for Crede chirping at Oswalt. And Everett started chirping to Garner to back up Crede from Garner's chirping. And Barbara Bush heard all of it.
:wink:

slavko
10-26-2005, 08:02 PM
Sportsline.com has the play-by-play with pitches or Game Chart with pitch location to give you what you want. I prefer it to ESPN.

chez742002
10-28-2005, 03:54 AM
Carl was ready to whoop some porn star butt, he called Crede, his "little brother" and the Sox, "his family"!! That was so great and inspiring to know. Carl has gotten a bad rap from the media, he is a great teammate. In the paper, he said" If Garner wants a piece of Crede, he is gonna have to go through me 1st and that WILL NOT HAPPEN. Crede, I love him like a little brother!"

DrCrawdad
10-28-2005, 05:30 AM
For me, the best part was that Garner and Carl were screaming all those f-bombs with the President's mom sitting square in the middle of them, clearly within earshot. :redneck

Vernam

I don't believe that the former First Lady would be shocked by hearing salty language.