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kjhanson
10-24-2005, 02:46 PM
Obviously it's World Series time, so talk of the Cubs should be kept at a minimum. Nonetheless, I found the following article to be very interesting. It confirms what many of us already know: The stereotypes that the local and national media have created of Sox and Cub fans are grossly exaggerated and completely imaginary.

Dave Newbart (Sun Times) Article (http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-nws-soxfan20.html)

As recently as this past weekend I had a friend here at school comment on all the "poor Sox fans" attending the game at the Cell on Saturday. And considering I'm attending school in the grossly ignorant Ames, Iowa, this is a somewhat common theme. It'll be nice to have these statistics in the future to quell such arguments, allowing me instead to focus the conversation on our impending championship!

kittle42
10-24-2005, 02:52 PM
It confirms what many of us already know: The stereotypes that the local and national media have created of Sox and Cub fans are grossly exaggerated and completely imaginary.

I would also attribute the perpetuation of these stereotypes to certain less than stellar posters around these parts.

How can I be a Sox fan if my father wasn't a bricklayer or pipefitter?

Baby Fisk
10-24-2005, 03:05 PM
I would also attribute the perpetuation of these stereotypes to certain less than stellar posters around these parts.

How can I be a Sox fan if my father wasn't a bricklayer or pipefitter?
My father is a steelworker. :thumbsup:

However, I went to university and have a nice office job. Does this disqualify me from being a Sox fan? :unsure:

Uncle_Patrick
10-24-2005, 03:16 PM
Wouldn't a better title for that article have been "Tough News Cubs Fans: Your Just Like White Sox Fans"? After all, Cubs fans hate us, the Sox fans, with a passion, more than they hate the team, and think we are some or all of the following:

Trailer Trash
Gangbangers
Meth Heads
Wife-Beaters
Criminals
Drunks (oh, the irony with that one...)
Classless
Unemployed
Welfare cases
Drop outs

Meanwhile, Sox fans consider Cubs fans yuppies, frat boys, drunks, and ignorant about baseball.

Which list sounds worse to you?

itsnotrequired
10-24-2005, 03:17 PM
Wouldn't a better title for that article have been "Tough News Cubs Fans: Your Just Like White Sox Fans"? After all, Cubs fans hate us, the Sox fans, with a passion, more than they hate the team, and think we are some or all of the following:

Trailer Trash
Gangbangers
Meth Heads
Wife-Beaters
Criminals
Drunks (oh, the irony with that one...)
Classless
Unemployed
Welfare cases
Drop outs

Meanwhile, Sox fans consider Cubs fans yuppies, frat boys, drunks, and ignorant about baseball.

Which list sounds worse to you?

The Cubs are the measuring stick by which all other things in life are judged.:rolleyes:

Uncle_Patrick
10-24-2005, 03:21 PM
The Cubs are the measuring stick by which all other things in life are judged.:rolleyes:

They'll tell you that often enough.

kjhanson
10-24-2005, 03:21 PM
Wouldn't a better title for that article have been "Tough News Cubs Fans: Your Just Like White Sox Fans"? After all, Cubs fans hate us, the Sox fans, with a passion, more than they hate the team



Haha. I agree 100%. If one Cub fan reads the article and takes it to heart, his/her inferiority complex surely will be tested.

PatK
10-24-2005, 04:25 PM
I don't buy that study one bit.

davenicholson
10-24-2005, 04:29 PM
My father is a steelworker. :thumbsup:

However, I went to university and have a nice office job. Does this disqualify me from being a Sox fan? :unsure:
Fisk,
My situation exactly, except that instead of "going to university", I "attended college"! :redneck

JorgeFabregas
10-24-2005, 04:32 PM
The numbers may be slanted towards the people going to see a lot of games.

kittle42
10-24-2005, 05:12 PM
The numbers may be slanted towards the people going to see a lot of games.

The article clearly says that people who attend games or just watch them on tv were polled (though I'm not saying that any poll is not without its margin of error).

Sorry to ruin the misperceptions of some of those here who need to cling to a fabricated stereotype to give themselves a sense of "identity." I am in many ways the complete opposite of what a "Sox fan" is supposed to be, yet I am nothing if not a Sox fan. The team itself gives me any "identity" I need. I can be a northsider, enjoy a latte, refuse to drink PBR, have a law degree, and be a true silver and black Sox fan.

Apparently, many others can, too.

PatK
10-24-2005, 05:14 PM
The article clearly says that people who attend games or just watch them on tv were polled (though I'm not saying that any poll is not without its margin of error).

Sorry to ruin the misperceptions of some of those here who need to cling to a fabricated stereotype to give themselves a sense of "identity." I am in many ways the complete opposite of what a "Sox fan" is supposed to be, yet I am nothing if not a Sox fan. The team itself gives me any "identity" I need. I can be a northsider, enjoy a latte, refuse to drink PBR, have a law degree, and be a true silver and black Sox fan.

Apparently, many others can, too.

I have hard time believing that the average Sox fan makes $78,000 a year. Because I sure as hell dont.

kittle42
10-24-2005, 05:32 PM
I have hard time believing that the average Sox fan makes $78,000 a year. Because I sure as hell dont.

I'm pretty sure the average [insert Cubs or any other team name] fan probably doesn't make that amount, either, as my guess would be it is over the national average. They probably should have taken median income instead of average. In fact, they really should have. However, I am willing to bet that number would come out pretty close, as well.

maurice
10-24-2005, 05:50 PM
Leave it to the Cub-Times to tell Sox fans that they're relatively wealthy and educated and make it sound like it's a bad thing.

I also like the way that they glossed over the diversity issue. Statistical "findings" aside, a minority baseball fan in Chicago is like 20 times more likely to be a Sox fan than a Cub fan. The claim that 13% of Cub fans are black is laughable.

Finally, the study ignores the most commonly asserted difference -- Sox fans are knowledgeable, hard-core baseball fans, while most cub fans go to the Urinal to drink and ignore the game. This has nothing to do with financial or educational backgrounds.

kittle42
10-24-2005, 05:56 PM
I also like the way that they glossed over the diversity issue. Statistical "findings" aside, a minority baseball fan in Chicago is like 20 times more likely to be a Sox fan than a Cub fan. The claim that 13% of Cub fans are black is laughable.

Finally, the study ignores the most commonly asserted difference -- Sox fans are knowledgeable, hard-core baseball fans, while most cub fans go to the Urinal to drink and ignore the game. This has nothing to do with financial or educational backgrounds.

Re: minority fans, I agree. The simple demographics of the two sides of the city should show a higher percentage of minority fans to be Sox fans, I would think.

Re: knowledge of fans - well, some stereotypes are true :D:

maurice
10-24-2005, 06:08 PM
The simple demographics of the two sides of the city should show a higher percentage of minority fans to be Sox fans, I would think.

Also, a large portion of cub fans are little old ladies from Iowa, college kids who came to the "big city" from Nebraska and are too scared to go to the South Side, and other "Middle Americans" who root for the cubs because they can watch the games on WGN. These people are overwhelmingly white (and not particularly wealthy).

antitwins13
10-24-2005, 06:13 PM
I grew up in southwest Iowa and was a Sox fan. I guess I don't fit the stereotype Iowa boy Cub fan.

JorgeFabregas
10-24-2005, 06:21 PM
The article clearly says that people who attend games or just watch them on tv were polled (though I'm not saying that any poll is not without its margin of error).
Yes, I saw what the article says. The fact of the matter is that statistics on the people attending the games are surely easier to come by. You have people in one space and you can poll them. If they paid by credit card or have season tickets you have their address and can send them surveys. If the polling is done in-stadium then it is going to slant towards the people who can afford to (and do) go to the most games. You can use statistics to adjust for these types of things, but without more information I'm not sure that that's what's being done, here.

LongLiveFisk
10-24-2005, 06:46 PM
Hey, even Peter Gammons said we have a larger fan base than many people probably realize.

(And we all know his word is law.) :)

JohnBasedowYoda
10-24-2005, 07:25 PM
i just wish my salary was closer to the average they showed there

Johnny Mostil
10-25-2005, 09:59 AM
I wonder how much overlap there is here. While I'd guess the results are more right than not, the definition of fan, as already noted, is odd:



. . . thousands of in-depth surveys conducted by Scarborough of Sox and Cubs fans who attended games or watched them on TV or listened to them on the radio in the last year.



Are persons attending, watching, or listening to Sox/Cubs games fans of both teams, or was there a question asking a preference? Does hearing a Cub game on another car's radio qualify one as a Cub fan?

Depending on how the income question is phrased, the reported result may not be too far from reality. The American Community Survey (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/medincsizeandstate.html) reports median family income in Illinois was $60,387 last year. I'd guess it was even higher in the Chicago area and higher still among Chicago area families with time to follow baseball. But who knows what "average income" means in this story?