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View Full Version : Paul Konerko MUST be resigned!


mrwag
10-24-2005, 08:40 AM
Is it possible for Sox mgmt to just write out blank checks to these guys so we can bring EVERYONE back again next year? Forget the budgets! These guys rule!

This is the greatest thing I've ever witnessed, next to being there when my children were born. Words can't describe this, folks.

chisoxfanatic
10-24-2005, 09:46 AM
I don't care how much it costs. The guy IS the face of the White Sox (aside from Ozzie). He is so valuable to this organization...even more valuable than the most flawless diamond!

So, the FOGIDPK might *try* to disagree here; but, even they must give the guy credit for coming up big for this team time and time again. He grounds into less double plays than tons of players, and has been SO clutch, hitting when it counts.

Kenny, you MUST resign Konerko immediately...First piece of business to do during this offseason.

Hokiesox
10-24-2005, 09:54 AM
I don't care how much it costs. The guy IS the face of the White Sox (aside from Ozzie). He is so valuable to this organization...even more valuable than the most flawless diamond!

So, the FOGIDPK might *try* to disagree here; but, even they must give the guy credit for coming up big for this team time and time again. He grounds into less double plays than tons of players, and has been SO clutch, hitting when it counts.

Kenny, you MUST resign Konerko immediately...First piece of business to do during this offseason.


...But please don't worry about it until after winning this series. First thing's first!

itsnotrequired
10-24-2005, 09:56 AM
I don't care how much it costs. The guy IS the face of the White Sox (aside from Ozzie). He is so valuable to this organization...even more valuable than the most flawless diamond!

So, the FOGIDPK might *try* to disagree here; but, even they must give the guy credit for coming up big for this team time and time again. He grounds into less double plays than tons of players, and has been SO clutch, hitting when it counts.

Kenny, you MUST resign Konerko immediately...First piece of business to do during this offseason.

It will be interesting to see what effect the arbitration players will have on the Konerko situation. Out of the eligible players, AJ, Garland, Jenks and Crede will have the biggest impact. Garland is coming off of a career year and Captain Clutch won't be making a piddly $400k next season, I can tell you that.

RustyKuntz
10-24-2005, 09:58 AM
I'm all for resigning Konerko, but not at the expense of team balance. The best thing about the Sox this season is that they got rid of big salaried guys like Mags and Lee and turned them into a whole team of quality guys.

As much as I love what Paulie has meant to the team over the years, I don't want to see one third of a payroll tied up into 1 guy.

whitesoxwilkes
10-24-2005, 09:58 AM
I don't care how much it costs. The guy IS the face of the White Sox (aside from Ozzie). He is so valuable to this organization...even more valuable than the most flawless diamond!

So, the FOGIDPK might *try* to disagree here; but, even they must give the guy credit for coming up big for this team time and time again. He grounds into less double plays than tons of players, and has been SO clutch, hitting when it counts.

Kenny, you MUST resign Konerko immediately...First piece of business to do during this offseason.

I somehow managed to keep my mouth shut all summer when everyone was ripping Konerko for his "diarrhea of the mouth." But it was driving me nuts.

Paul Konerko is a team player who personifies all that is Chicago. Plus, what alternatives are out there at 1B that will match his numbers? The thought of Ross Gload as the starting 1st baseman for the 2006 WORLD CHAMPION Chicago White Sox makes me sick.

Hangar18
10-24-2005, 10:01 AM
Paul Konerko is a team player who personifies all that is Chicago. Plus, what alternatives are out there at 1B that will match his numbers? The thought of Ross Gload as the starting 1st baseman for the 2006 WORLD CHAMPION Chicago White Sox makes me sick.


AMEN

Iwritecode
10-24-2005, 10:02 AM
I'm all for resigning Konerko, but not at the expense of team balance. The best thing about the Sox this season is that they got rid of big salaried guys like Mags and Lee and turned them into a whole team of quality guys.

As much as I love what Paulie has meant to the team over the years, I don't want to see one third of a payroll tied up into 1 guy.

IMHO, the payroll is going to be near 90 million next year. Maybe even closer to 100. They should be able to afford to give Paulie whatever it is that he wants.

gobears1987
10-24-2005, 10:04 AM
It will be interesting to see what effect the arbitration players will have on the Konerko situation. Out of the eligible players, AJ, Garland, Jenks and Crede will have the biggest impact. Garland is coming off of a career year and Captain Clutch won't be making a piddly $400k next season, I can tell you that.WIth increased revenues from this season's run and the increased season ticket sales for next year, that will be no problem. Remember JR expanded payrolls after the Bulls won their 1st. Expect the same here. We will have the money to keep this team together, including Paulie. I just hope Ozzie isn't serious about quitting if he wins. I bet he won't BTW.

itsnotrequired
10-24-2005, 10:08 AM
WIth increased revenues from this season's run and the increased season ticket sales for next year, that will be no problem. Remember JR expanded payrolls after the Bulls won their 1st. Expect the same here. We will have the money to keep this team together, including Paulie. I just hope Ozzie isn't serious about quitting if he wins. I bet he won't BTW.

Oh, I agree. I just hope payroll is expanded enough to keep the team together. With the way Paulie is going, lots of teams will be knocking on his door next year. Still, a $90 million payroll seems likely.

I'm really interested in the Crede situation, especially with the whole Boras issue...

SoxFan76
10-24-2005, 10:10 AM
Paulie has been the lone constant throughout the season offensively. Even in April and May when he was hitting <.200, he was still driving in runs and hitting home runs. His avg. with RISP was low the first half, but rose dramatically in the second half, if I recall correctly.

He must come back.

schmitty9800
10-24-2005, 10:13 AM
I'm really interested in the Crede situation, especially with the whole Boras issue...

If Boras denies arbitration, then he's not going to find a whole lot of market out there for a .250 hitting corner infielder. I love the guy and I don't think we'd be here without him but I don't see his salary soaring.

mjharrison72
10-24-2005, 10:21 AM
IMHO, the payroll is going to be near 90 million next year. Maybe even closer to 100. They should be able to afford to give Paulie whatever it is that he wants.
Clearly such a team wouldn't be able to include Big Frank, though?
I think you're right, that the payroll will increase with KW trying to keep the team largely intact. I think Konerko definitely deserves a raise, and I just hope beyond hope that I am right that he's one of those ballplayers who thinks loyalty is more important than "testing the free agent waters" for a couple of extra million dollars a year.

veeter
10-24-2005, 10:28 AM
In the 15 days following the series, Paul Konerko will show me what kind of man he is. I already know what kind of player he is. I don't care what his dad says or what his agent thinks. The ball is in PK's hands, ultimately. I'll just say this, Maggs tested the market and the Sox moved on. I desparately want him back but if he leaves, the White Sox and their great fans will move on, again.

Kuzman
10-24-2005, 10:30 AM
Clearly such a team wouldn't be able to include Big Frank, though?
I think you're right, that the payroll will increase with KW trying to keep the team largely intact. I think Konerko definitely deserves a raise, and I just hope beyond hope that I am right that he's one of those ballplayers who thinks loyalty is more important than "testing the free agent waters" for a couple of extra million dollars a year.

Thats exactly my thought, If they're going to improve the payrolls bring back Frank as well! Let Carl walk and if Crede wants more money I'd say let him walk as well. A .250 Corner Infielder who has come up huge in the playoffs will only be another.. i don't know how to say this... 'high priced hype' maybe? I mean Crede has the knack for huge moments but where has he been this year prior to the walkoff against Cleveland? He got hot at the right time and I love it to death but I feel he was kinda like Beltran last year, looking PHENOMINAL in the playoffs. Eh.. I don't know im sure i'll get bashed for that but thats how I feel about Joe Joe

Flight #24
10-24-2005, 10:35 AM
Clearly such a team wouldn't be able to include Big Frank, though?
I think you're right, that the payroll will increase with KW trying to keep the team largely intact. I think Konerko definitely deserves a raise, and I just hope beyond hope that I am right that he's one of those ballplayers who thinks loyalty is more important than "testing the free agent waters" for a couple of extra million dollars a year.

I doubt that Frank's going anywhere. Reports are that he's told JR & KW he'll take "significantly less" to stay, and I think with all the good feeling in town, they'll try to keep him. Add to that that there aren't many teams that will be offering big $$$ to an injured DH, and I'd bet they can keep him for an incentive-laden deal with a base of say $2M. That gives him $5.5M in 2006 (including the buyout), and keeps him around.

Plus JR's on record as saying Frank's contract won't impact the budget for the other players.

kevin57
10-24-2005, 10:40 AM
I'm for signing Konerko, and giving him that fifth year, at around $12-15 million per, but if he gets offered $18+million by that pestilence team on the Eastern Seaboard, I'll miss Paulie, :whiner: but I say, enough is too much.

daveeym
10-24-2005, 10:41 AM
Thats exactly my thought, If they're going to improve the payrolls bring back Frank as well! Let Carl walk and if Crede wants more money I'd say let him walk as well. A .250 Corner Infielder who has come up huge in the playoffs will only be another.. i don't know how to say this... 'high priced hype' maybe? I mean Crede has the knack for huge moments but where has he been this year prior to the walkoff against Cleveland? He got hot at the right time and I love it to death but I feel he was kinda like Beltran last year, looking PHENOMINAL in the playoffs. Eh.. I don't know im sure i'll get bashed for that but thats how I feel about Joe Joe At this point you keep Crede, hope that this is his turning point, but be ready to move him midseason next year if the situation dictates it.

itsnotrequired
10-24-2005, 10:42 AM
Thats exactly my thought, If they're going to improve the payrolls bring back Frank as well! Let Carl walk and if Crede wants more money I'd say let him walk as well. A .250 Corner Infielder who has come up huge in the playoffs will only be another.. i don't know how to say this... 'high priced hype' maybe? I mean Crede has the knack for huge moments but where has he been this year prior to the walkoff against Cleveland? He got hot at the right time and I love it to death but I feel he was kinda like Beltran last year, looking PHENOMINAL in the playoffs. Eh.. I don't know im sure i'll get bashed for that but thats how I feel about Joe Joe

I'm not saying Crede is worth $3 million a year or anything like that but if Timo (.218 AVE bench player) can pull down $1 million a year, Joe should be able to as well.

rdwj
10-24-2005, 10:44 AM
I'm for signing Konerko, and giving him that fifth year, at around $12-15 million per, but if he gets offered $18+million by that pestilence team on the Eastern Seaboard, I'll miss Paulie, :whiner: but I say, enough is too much.

Hopefully, Paulie is smart enough to realize that the extra 3-4 million he may get elsewhere will EASILY be eclipsed by the windfall of endorsement money he's bound to get after winning the big one in Chicago!

He'd be a god here! Move over coach! Paulie is in town!!

Deuce
10-24-2005, 10:54 AM
The guy IS the face of the White Sox (aside from Ozzie).

:hurt

*ahem*

manders_01
10-24-2005, 10:56 AM
I'm sorry - I realize these guys are professional athletes and all - but one thing I've never thought about the current Sox players are that they are greedy. Yeah, I expect they will want raises - who doesn't when you perform well at your job - but I honestly don't see eny of them saying "I want a X million dollar raise." I think that these players personify what most Sox fans are - hard working people that don't get overly hyped up over money. I hope that after this postseason, none of the players can be lumped in with the majority of the Yankees and other MLB fatcats!

HITMEN OF 77
10-24-2005, 10:58 AM
It will be a sad day if Sox don't resign Paulie. He's well worth 13-14 mil per as he had shown just in this postseason.

gobears1987
10-24-2005, 11:06 AM
It will be a sad day if Sox don't resign Paulie. He's well worth 13-14 mil per as he had shown just in this postseason.Paulie is worth about what the Sox offered Maggs. I bet they can resign him for that much too.

Frater Perdurabo
10-24-2005, 11:08 AM
I've said in other threads during the past few weeks that the Sox should reconsider their stance on Konerko and should offer him a fair contract to stay with a World Series winner. To recap my "nuanced" position:

1. KW signaled his intentions by not attempting to re-sign Konerko at an earlier date. Konerko has not been in KW's long-term plans for at least 10 months, if not longer. KW probably believes it unwise to invest a huge percentage of total team payroll in one position player.

2. Paulie has driven his market value into the stratosphere. His clutch postseason homers with men on base have been an exclamation point to the fantastic job he's done since mid-June.

3. Based on that performance, and his solid 2004 season, and in light of the guaranteed increase in revenues next year, KW should consider re-signing him to a fair contract that rewards him but doesn't force other guys out the door. What good will Konerko do the Sox if they can't afford Garland, Crede, Pierzynski and Garcia in 2007-08?

4. If Konerko receives astronomically silly offers from teams with even larger payrolls like the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Angels or Dodgers, the Sox should think hard before matching. Under no circumstances should the Sox give Konerko a 4-5 year deal for $15+ million/year. That would be dumb. Those teams have the revenues to pay their mistakes to ride the pine. The Sox do not.

5. The best-case pipedream is Paulie proves he is the ultimate team player by giving the Sox a home-town, World Series discount in the hopes of repeating. If he does that, I will never, ever criticize him or his fans again.

6. Re-signing Konerko to a competitive offer is workable if they think creatively. For example, a front-loaded, three-year contract ($22 million in 2006, $15 million in 2007 and $8 million in 2008 = $45 million for three years) is fair to all sides. That gives him the ability to get another "max value" contract at age 32, pays him equal to what he should get on the open market over the life of the deal and gives the Sox the flexibility to lock up their core of starting pitchers plus AJ, Crede and Dye long into the future. If things were to go sour, it also means his contract isn't immovable; all things being equal his trade value always would be increasing because he'd be getting cheaper by the day.

Bottom line on re-signing Konerko:

Fair contract? Yes.

Dumb (A-Rod/Vlad-type) contract? No.

Dolanski
10-24-2005, 11:11 AM
I think they should make every effort to resign Konerko as he has been a monster in the post season, and not too shabby in the regular season (one of only 5 guys to average over 40 HR and 100 RBI the past two season). Keep in mind, however, that IF they are to put together teams that can compete for years to come, some of these guys are going to go bye bye at some point in time. Keep your cornerstones, but interchange and upgrade some of the parts as you go.

Don't get me wrong, I am attached to these guys as much as the next fan, but if Joey Clutch demands an obscene amount when he is a career .250 hitter, well, thanks for handling the hot corner, Joe, good luck elsewhere. Same goes for all of them. Eventually, some of these guys just won't be as good as they were, either lost their touch or got too old, or just don't make sense for the direction of the team. Should we keep Jermaine Dye for the next 4 years because he was part of this team and not give Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney their shot? No, of course not. Its just not a wise baseball decision. You gotta do what is best for the Chicago White Sox now and in the future.

hawkjt
10-24-2005, 11:25 AM
5 year 65 million for Paulie- in a minute.

kevingrt
10-24-2005, 11:30 AM
I have no problem keeping this whole team as is. Keep everyone and I'll be happy, if we get them for fair contracts. If the Yanks or Halos or anyone decide as earlier posters have said to give PK a 3-4 year $15+ million dollar contract, there is no reason to sign him. He is not worth that much money, period. I'll love him and cheer him everytime at the Cell, but he can walk if he wants that much money.

Players that I could live with letting walk... Carl, El Duque and Damaso. I love Carl but he just doesn't fit the meld of the team. It's hard to say because we might win a WS with him, but Carl could go. As for Damaso he might get his oldd stuff from two years ago back but for now I can't stand the kid. Everyone loves El Duque but if he wants a lot of money no need to resign him to a bullpen role. He could be another capable four or five starter on a team next year. I think El Duque knows there is no starting role on this team next year too. If he decides I like Chicago, and he'll take less money and sit in the 'pen, lets resign him, but that's tough for Hernandez.

As for everyone else, keep'em!

whitesoxwilkes
10-24-2005, 11:34 AM
Players that I could live with letting walk... Carl, El Duque and Damaso. I love Carl but he just doesn't fit the meld of the team. It's hard to say because we might win a WS with him, but Carl could go. As for Damaso he might get his oldd stuff from two years ago back but for now I can't stand the kid. Everyone loves El Duque but if he wants a lot of money no need to resign him to a bullpen role. He could be another capable four or five starter on a team next year. I think El Duque knows there is no starting role on this team next year too. If he decides I like Chicago, and he'll take less money and sit in the 'pen, lets resign him, but that's tough for Hernandez.

As for everyone else, keep'em!

I'm pretty sure The Duke is under a 2 year deal...can anyone confirm?

Also, where does Contreras stand?

34 Inch Stick
10-24-2005, 11:44 AM
All of the pitchers are under contract next year at the Sox discretion. I think El Duque has a 4.5 million (Sox) option and Contrearas is has a guaranteed 8 million (2 of which will be paid by the Yankees.

For all the talk about the offensive players, it is a thing of beauty that the true strength of this team is in place for next year with good young talent on the horizon.

itsnotrequired
10-24-2005, 11:50 AM
I'm pretty sure The Duke is under a 2 year deal...can anyone confirm?

Also, where does Contreras stand?

Hernandez is under contract for $4.5 million next year and is a FA in 2007.

http://flyingsock.com/MainPages/SoxSalaries.htm

Hitmen77
10-24-2005, 11:59 AM
Hopefully the incentive of staying with the Sox and going for another pennant will give the Sox an edge over what other teams might throw at PK.

Look at Maggs, sure he made more money jumping to the highest bidder, but at this point you have to wonder if he'd trade that for a World Series ring that he could have had.

Chicken Dinner
10-24-2005, 12:06 PM
Here's another good site for salary info-


http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_23_mlbcontracts_archive.html

palehozenychicty
10-24-2005, 12:07 PM
If magglio was on this team, we wouldn've have even won the division. period. he proved his true colors in the offseason.

Domeshot17
10-24-2005, 12:09 PM
I do not expect Konerko to get Vlad/Arod Money because isnt a Vlad/Arod type. I do think Konerko just went from being offered 4 years at 9-10 per to 5 years at 12 per. I just hope all these moments weigh into Paulies Decision. I hope afer last nights game and winning 2 out of the next 3 in houston Paulie decides he doesnt want that to be his last at bat in a Sox Uniform at Us Cellular. I think the DH role can be filled insystem, with Anderson next year. I think AJ gets close to the same deal in arbitration next year, Power went up, but average went down. IMO, With no one really waiting in the wings next year, Might see Kenny avoid Arbitration with Crede and AJ, Crede gets 3 year 8-10 million deal (total) 2.5-3 per, AJ similiar deal, paid for as El Duque is traded to a team looking for a starter desperately (SD maybe, maybe back to the Yanks). Then, Carl money is put into the 8 paulie makes and you have your 12-13 mil.

The 1 thing that will hurt the Sox chances, The teams expected to bid the highest, are the Teams Paulie hurt the Most, anaheim, boston, New York(during the season) and I am sure the Astros would jump at the chance to put him at first and let Berkman Roam the outfield.

The good news is, Boston and New York both will put more money into Burnett then they will Konerko, both already have smashing offensives, so the money needs to get into pitching, not hitting. My thought has been for a while, The Yankees will keep Giambi at first, Sign Nomar to play short, and move him or Jeter to center, or second, and move Cano to center. Anaheim has a lot of question marks with who is coming back, and will probably have 2 rotation spots to fill. Houston could lose Clemens next year, which would free up Money, but also leave another team looking for pitching. Boston has agreed to trade Wells back to the west coast, so that most likely moves Papelbon back into the rotation, leaving them a starter and 2 relievers short.

No Doubt that Paulies Value is up, WAY UP, but I would be slightly more worried if he was a starting pitcher.

Also, here is the money coming off the books in potential FA: Konerko ( 8.75) Viciano (1.3), Everett (5) Ben Davis (1) Timo (1) Blum (.575) Kevin Walker (.575) Widger(.5) Crede(.4) Harris(.365) Gload (.335) Cotts (0.333) Pablo (0.333) Diaz (0.318) Garland(3.4) AJ (2.25) Thomas (6)

Figure: Locks to be back are Blum Widger Cotts Ozuna Garland AJ and probably Crede. Figure you lose a good 13 mil between Carl Davis Timo Walker Gload Diaz and the Hurt ( couting his 3 mil buyout). so if 9 of that goes towards raises to Garland(3.6 mil to him, 7 per) AJ and Crede Cotts split the last 6 mil ( ontop of their old salaries), then 4 mil more can go to make crede close to 13 a year, and you replenish lost depth in the Farm and trades.

Chicken Dinner
10-24-2005, 12:14 PM
I still say that I don't think PK will go anywhere that doesn't spring train in AZ. Paulie just built a huge house in Scottsdale that even has its own batting cage. Except for the 1st week, he goes home every day and plays all the games that are in the Phoenix area.

VenturaSoxFan23
10-24-2005, 12:15 PM
I've said in other threads during the past few weeks that the Sox should reconsider their stance on Konerko and should offer him a fair contract to stay with a World Series winner. To recap my "nuanced" position:

1. KW signaled his intentions by not attempting to re-sign Konerko at an earlier date. Konerko has not been in KW's long-term plans for at least 10 months, if not longer. KW probably believes it unwise to invest a huge percentage of total team payroll in one position player.

2. Paulie has driven his market value into the stratosphere. His clutch postseason homers with men on base have been an exclamation point to the fantastic job he's done since mid-June.

3. Based on that performance, and his solid 2004 season, and in light of the guaranteed increase in revenues next year, KW should consider re-signing him to a fair contract that rewards him but doesn't force other guys out the door. What good will Konerko do the Sox if they can't afford Garland, Crede, Pierzynski and Garcia in 2007-08?

4. If Konerko receives astronomically silly offers from teams with even larger payrolls like the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Angels or Dodgers, the Sox should think hard before matching. Under no circumstances should the Sox give Konerko a 4-5 year deal for $15+ million/year. That would be dumb. Those teams have the revenues to pay their mistakes to ride the pine. The Sox do not.

5. The best-case pipedream is Paulie proves he is the ultimate team player by giving the Sox a home-town, World Series discount in the hopes of repeating. If he does that, I will never, ever criticize him or his fans again.

6. Re-signing Konerko to a competitive offer is workable if they think creatively. For example, a front-loaded, three-year contract ($22 million in 2006, $15 million in 2007 and $8 million in 2008 = $45 million for three years) is fair to all sides. That gives him the ability to get another "max value" contract at age 32, pays him equal to what he should get on the open market over the life of the deal and gives the Sox the flexibility to lock up their core of starting pitchers plus AJ, Crede and Dye long into the future. If things were to go sour, it also means his contract isn't immovable; all things being equal his trade value always would be increasing because he'd be getting cheaper by the day.

Bottom line on re-signing Konerko:

Fair contract? Yes.

Dumb (A-Rod/Vlad-type) contract? No.

IMO, I believe PK would pull a Greg Maddux and accept a discounted deal to stay. He doesn't seem like the type of guy to haggle over a few bucks. Then again, I thought that way of Maggs too.
But, remember, Maggs was hurt and there was no guarantee he would even play this year. That's why the Sox let him test the market. Maggs chose Detroit for:
a) the money
b) they signed a bunch of guys whom the team expected to contend right away.
PK has remained relatively unscathed, so he would be worth the extra bank owed to him.

AJ should be resigned. That pitching staff wouldn't have been as good without a veteran catcher leading the crew. As a plus, this catcher can hit; something this team hasn't had since Carlton Fisk.

Crede deserves more than his 400K a year just on his defense alone. The rest of the team can pick him up offensively. Just keep making those great plays at 3rd.

Also, I'd give Jermaine Dye a raise. He more than surpassed everybody's expectations.

Unregistered
10-24-2005, 12:26 PM
Maggs chose Detroit for:
a) the money
b) the money
Fixed it for you. When he took that deal, he did it cause they were the only ones dumb enough to give him that much money. Being on a winning team probably barely cracked the top 10 in his mind.

WillyDSoxFan
10-24-2005, 12:46 PM
As much as I'd really LOVE for the Sox to be able to resign everyone, I have to think realistically it's a good bet that at least one of Konerko, Crede, or AJ is going to be unable to be signed. Even with the additional funds this season has given the club in addtional ticket sales, season ticket sales for '06, there's just going to be a money crunch somewhere. There are alot of raises already in place for '06, besides Iguchi and Contreras the other starting players are each getting at least an additional million next year. Crede is certainly going to command alot more than $400K, and there are alot of other holes that need to be filled, hopefully by the current players. Lets also face the fact that as much as Jerry wants this team to win, he certainly would like to start making some serious money off this club. Bulls certainly aren't filling his vaults lately, and I'm sure he's been dying for the opportunity to cash in on an increased White Sox fanbase. I certainly agree that the payroll will be increased for 2006, but it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't enough to resign the entire team. Im going to enjoy this championship run for what it is, and pray that after the parade, somehow someway the players, agents, and team management can figure out the best way to bring back as many key players as they can.

hawkjt
10-24-2005, 12:50 PM
Hopefully in the 15 days after the series the sox sit down with Paulie and make him a strong offer. He has to consider that a. sox will be strong for as long as the pitching is retained. B. He can clean up as the face of this team in the 3rd biggest market in the country. He is identified with the Sox now and the national endorsement deals will need him to remain a in a sox uni to have him immediately recognized. He can get 3+ million in endorsements.
C. He knows the organization from the trainers on up to the GM and Owner. He has long range potential to be a GM and kenny has already talked about it.
D. After taxes the diff in 13 million vs 16 million is only 1.5 million or so. Why move to a NY where with his notoriously slow starts he will be getting booed mercilessly in April 06? Compare that to Sox park where he has now got a lifetime pass on slow starts as we know he will get hot when the weather does.

The diamondbacks could be attrative to him -but they are an unproven team and in financial straits.

Indians and twins? NO WAY

Boston- maybe but again the scruitiny of fanatical fans that will demand a Popi type performance immediately as he would be the highest paid guy on the team plus they may dump Manny thus putting even more pressure on PK to produce.

Chicago- no fishbowl existance- solid money, great mgr, teammates. Adoring fans - a chance to win for his whole contract- tough to beat at any price.

Flight #24
10-24-2005, 12:55 PM
As much as I'd really LOVE for the Sox to be able to resign everyone, I have to think realistically it's a good bet that at least one of Konerko, Crede, or AJ is going to be unable to be signed. Even with the additional funds this season has given the club in addtional ticket sales, season ticket sales for '06, there's just going to be a money crunch somewhere. There are alot of raises already in place for '06, besides Iguchi and Contreras the other starting players are each getting at least an additional million next year. Crede is certainly going to command alot more than $400K, and there are alot of other holes that need to be filled, hopefully by the current players. Lets also face the fact that as much as Jerry wants this team to win, he certainly would like to start making some serious money off this club. Bulls certainly aren't filling his vaults lately, and I'm sure he's been dying for the opportunity to cash in on an increased White Sox fanbase. I certainly agree that the payroll will be increased for 2006, but it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't enough to resign the entire team. Im going to enjoy this championship run for what it is, and pray that after the parade, somehow someway the players, agents, and team management can figure out the best way to bring back as many key players as they can.

For the record, raises to players under contract total appox $10M.
As noted above, by letting go Carl, Timo, Shingo, Vizcaino, Marte and buying out Frank, you can save approx $14-$16M. That leaves $4-6M + payroll increases for guys needing new raises.

Crede ($3M salary): $2.5M raise
Garland ($7M): $3.5M raise
AJ ($5M): $2.5M raise
Paulie ($14M): $5M raise
Jenks ($1M): $700K raise
Cotts ($1M): $700K raise
TOTAL: $15M

Thus with a $10M payroll increase, you should be able to keep everyone together, and probably still keep Frank on an incentive-laden deal. The Question will be what happens to guys in 2007-2009 based on how the contracts & raises are structured. but with McCarthy, Anderson, Young coming cheap and able to replace Duque, Dye - the Soxwill hopefully have the flexbility to keep things together.

Lip Man 1
10-24-2005, 12:55 PM
In the past few days I read a story in one of the Chicago newspapers quoting Paul's dad. Sorry I don't remember which one but his dad said Paul loves Chicago but he is going to test the market and that "the home town discount is done."
His dad said Paul would have given a discount had they signed him in the spring.

Lip

hawkjt
10-24-2005, 01:06 PM
I was surprised to hear that quote from Hank Konerko and I am guessing Paulie was also. He probably speaks the truth but knowing PK he does not want it discussed during the series. He knows he is in great position and he does not need a verbal sparring match in the media to distract from the job at hand.

He may be faking it but PK comes off as one of the most humble guys on the team. Always deflects the praise to the pitching staff or Joe or Pods ect. Makes him even more attractive to suitors. Darn.

kittle42
10-24-2005, 01:10 PM
If the Sox win the Series, and then let PK go, JR will lose all goodwill with much of the fanbase. That's just the way a lot of Sox fans are, as we see here time and time again.

Unregistered
10-24-2005, 01:18 PM
If the Sox win the Series, and then let PK go, JR will lose all goodwill with much of the fanbase. That's just the way a lot of Sox fans are, as we see here time and time again.Agreed. Konerko is their well-spoken, quotable, team leader. He's absoultely adored in Chicago, even more so now, and the Sox know it would be a big PR mistake to let him walk. I'd be floored if they didn't come to terms and re-sign him - not because I like him (which I do) but because it would be a bad business decision not to.

DSpivack
10-24-2005, 03:29 PM
Agreed. Konerko is their well-spoken, quotable, team leader. He's absoultely adored in Chicago, even more so now, and the Sox know it would be a big PR mistake to let him walk. I'd be floored if they didn't come to terms and re-sign him - not because I like him (which I do) but because it would be a bad business decision not to.

This is mostly true, but it depends on what the offers would be. Most fans are smart enough to know he isn't worth more than $15m/year.

EastCoastSoxFan
10-24-2005, 03:35 PM
Hernandez is under contract for $4.5 million next year and is a FA in 2007.

http://flyingsock.com/MainPages/SoxSalaries.htm

I just checked that chart.
How could Jenks possibly be eligible for salary arbitration?
I would certainly agree that he's in line for some kind of raise, but I thought a minimum of 3 years of major league experience was necessary (with some players giving up their first year in exchange for a 4-year rookie contract)...

The Dude
10-24-2005, 03:37 PM
I somehow managed to keep my mouth shut all summer when everyone was ripping Konerko for his "diarrhea of the mouth." But it was driving me nuts.

Paul Konerko is a team player who personifies all that is Chicago. Plus, what alternatives are out there at 1B that will match his numbers? The thought of Ross Gload as the starting 1st baseman for the 2006 WORLD CHAMPION Chicago White Sox makes me sick.

You said it man!! First things first: win 2 more games, have a kick ass parade downtown, and resign Paulie before he hits the market.

Fenway
10-24-2005, 03:38 PM
A big IF in this mess concerns what Boston might do if they unload Manny. They will drive the bidding up and I think the guy in Anaheim will stay in the hunt as well.

What will JR do? who knows

MikeLove
10-24-2005, 03:44 PM
i just cant see paul not coming back if we win the series

itsnotrequired
10-24-2005, 04:06 PM
I just checked that chart.
How could Jenks possibly be eligible for salary arbitration?
I would certainly agree that he's in line for some kind of raise, but I thought a minimum of 3 years of major league experience was necessary (with some players giving up their first year in exchange for a 4-year rookie contract)...

You know, I think you're right. How is he eligible?

Flight #24
10-24-2005, 04:07 PM
I just checked that chart.
How could Jenks possibly be eligible for salary arbitration?
I would certainly agree that he's in line for some kind of raise, but I thought a minimum of 3 years of major league experience was necessary (with some players giving up their first year in exchange for a 4-year rookie contract)...

Jenks is in his first year of Major league service. I can't find any reference to any other time spent in the majors. I'm not sure what other reasons there might be for him to have any service time or arbitration eligibility, maybe someon more educated than I on that stuff can chime in.

If true, that's nice because that's another bit of money saved. KW can give him a nice little bump, but still keep him below $1M. Or if he's set on him, maybe a 2-4 year deal averaging $1M/yr.

Flight #24
10-24-2005, 04:08 PM
A big IF in this mess concerns what Boston might do if they unload Manny. They will drive the bidding up and I think the guy in Anaheim will stay in the hunt as well.

What will JR do? who knows

Do you think Boston will unload Manny's $20 just to pay Paulie $15-17? Because I think the Sox will probably pay $12-14 to keep him. Not based on anything factual except estimated revenue bumps and what I think that means for payroll.

Half Cocked Jack
10-24-2005, 04:09 PM
If we win the World Series, I'm thinking Reinsdorf will resign everybody. People love this team, and its a great move even from a cynical business standpoint. Plus, look at the free agents out there to replace PK... who would you really replace him with?

shes
10-24-2005, 04:43 PM
First of all, what a greedy, jag move on the part of Konerko's father to come out and say that during the world series. Just leaves a battery acid taste in my mouth. Ugh.

Konerko is not worth $13-15 M/yr, but he'll get it b/c of what he's done in the postseason. He's had a notorious knack for striking/popping out in clutch situations this year. Most of his home runs either come in early innings or in blowouts, or with no one on base. I can't tell you how many times the guy has come up with runners on in a close game this year and done jack squat. When Dye got hit last night, I was disappointed because I just knew Konerko would leave 3 guys stranded as he popped up to end the inning. :redface:

That granny almost makes up for all the frustrating double plays/popups/strikeouts Konerko has accumulated. It was damn clutch. However, Konerko is nowhere near as clutch as some of our other players, namely Joe Crede. Of course, when I said this 3 months ago, I was universally flamed by all but the most staunch PK haters. I doubt anyone's going to flame me for this statement now. :D:

Point is, if Konerko comes back and receives something ridiculous like $13-15M per year, he will soon wear out his welcome in Chicago. We all know how quick fans, especially Sox fans, turn in this city. When Paulie hits .182 in April or finishes the season at .264/30/91 the fans are going to call for his head. It's unfair for all involved b/c Konerko simply isn't worth superstar money, so his lack of superstar numbers will, of course, cause problems. Granted, all this can be avoided if a.) Konerko gives the Sox a hometown discount around $10-11M/year, or b.) Konerko puts up ~ .285/40+/110+ every year of his contract. I don't think either one of these things has a high likelihood of happening. The solution, then, is to overpay or let Konerko walk. If JR is willing to loosen his purse strings and ovepaying for Paulie doesn't seriously hinder the re/signing of players in the future, I'm all for it. An 85-77 season or two, however, would probably hammer a few nails into good 'ol JR's wallet and set the Sox quite a few steps backwards from '07/08 on.

Don't get me wrong, I like Paul Konerko. I just think if the White Sox are going to mortgage their future on someone, it shouldn't be on Konerko, a power-hitting first baseman with little athleticism, no proven superstardom (except for a certain WS home-run), and not much room for growth (does anyone really think Konerko is going to get significantly better? .300/45+/120+? I don't think so) I'd love to see him starting for the'06 Sox, but not at the price it's likely going to cost.

MRKARNO
10-24-2005, 05:44 PM
At what point does Daver come around and try to explain to us that we've got it all wrong and Konerko is way overpaid at 8 million? :rolleyes:

RedHeadPaleHoser
10-24-2005, 06:04 PM
If we win the World Series, I'm thinking Reinsdorf will resign everybody. People love this team, and its a great move even from a cynical business standpoint. Plus, look at the free agents out there to replace PK... who would you really replace him with?

That would be great...try to DEFEND a WS title. I love the idea if that!!

supertwangreverb
10-24-2005, 08:18 PM
I hate to say this, but I could careless if Paulie comes back next year...as long as they win it all this year. LOL, I wouldn't care what happened if they won this year!!

But... I would like to see Paulie comeback, I just bought a WS Konerko shirt, he better comeback!!

I agree with some of the above posts tho... it would be more important to keep the pitchers, possibly ad to that?

chisoxfanatic
10-24-2005, 08:20 PM
I hate to say this, but I could careless if Paulie comes back next year...as long as they win it all this year. LOL, I wouldn't care what happened if they won this year!!

Ok, Jerry Krause!

It's about keeping the team together and forming a DYNASTY here. Why win just one championship when you can tie a bunch together?

SOXSINCE'70
10-24-2005, 08:24 PM
...But please don't worry about it until after winning this series. First thing's first!

Exactly!! First,win the Series.THEN,Konerko will get his just due,
from the Sox,of course.

SABRSox
10-24-2005, 08:29 PM
Ok, Jerry Krause!

It's about keeping the team together and forming a DYNASTY here. Why win just one championship when you can tie a bunch together?

First, I want to re-sign Paul Konerko.

Second, I realize you cannot create a dynasty by over-paying for Paul Konerko. If he commands upwards of $15 mil per for 4-5 years, we cannot afford that. Unfortunately this is a bad year to get a power hitting position player, since Konerko is far and away the best option out there.

A three year deal, somewhere in the $12-$15 mil per range sounds about right, or the front loaded $45 mil over three years deal that Frater Perdurabo suggested would work. Anything more is a significant risk, and not in the best interest of "dynasty building."

Edit: Oh yeah, one more thing. This is MLB, not the NFL. Dynasty building is near impossible. So re-signing Konerko doesn't guarantee a thing. While I'd be upset if we lost Paulie, I think I'd get over it.

But it would break my heart if this guy left:

:hurt

TheGipper
10-24-2005, 09:35 PM
I could see the Whitesox keeping Konerki, and AJ. They will probably let Crede go and try to sign a Joe Randa or someone like to take his place. Crede is outstanding with the glove and his bat has come to life and is showing a look of the player people expected him to be. This team seems to have gelled very strongly with eachother and Ozzie that I could see them WANT stay to continue what they have worked so hard to. I think Ozzie is the key to the offseason if he stays than most of the players will to.

With him in charge of this team if someone goes I have faith Ozzie would feel the hole with another solid player. Can't fault him for any of the pickups he made during the season. KW signed them Ozzie told him who to go after.

Flight #24
10-24-2005, 09:39 PM
I could see the Whitesox keeping Konerki, and AJ. They will probably let Crede go and try to sign a Joe Randa or someone like to take his place. Crede is outstanding with the glove and his bat has come to life and is showing a look of the player people expected him to be. This team seems to have gelled very strongly with eachother and Ozzie that I could see them WANT stay to continue what they have worked so hard to. I think Ozzie is the key to the offseason if he stays than most of the players will to.

With him in charge of this team if someone goes I have faith Ozzie would feel the hole with another solid player. Can't fault him for any of the pickups he made during the season. KW signed them Ozzie told him who to go after.

What exactly do people think Joe Crede will make in arbitration? He's had a great finish and postseason, but his overall #s aren't exactly going to garner him a $6M/yr deal. More like $3M, IMO. Unless you go bargain basement, it'll still be hard to find a 3B on the open market that'll cost more (including Joe Randa).

Tragg
10-24-2005, 09:43 PM
They will probably let Crede go and try to sign a Joe Randa or someone like to take his place. Crede is outstanding with the glove and his bat has come to life and is showing a look of the player people expected him to be.
Why in the world would the Sox let an improving young 3B who is deadly with the glove (a key ingredient to Sox baseball) go, and sign a gimpy, overrated veteran in his stead?

Nothing could be more nauseating than seeing Frank sign with the As.

cwsfannick
10-24-2005, 09:52 PM
Why in the world would the Sox let an improving young 3B who is deadly with the glove (a key ingredient to Sox baseball) go, and sign a gimpy, overrated veteran in his stead?

Nothing could be more nauseating than seeing Frank sign with the As.

I dont't know about Randa, but for sure Crede is gone after 2006. I believe Crede is a Boras client. Enough said. This is probably the main reason we drafted Josh Fields in the first roud of the 04 draft. Hopefully by 2007 Fields can reduce his strikeouts substantially.

Soxboyrob
10-24-2005, 09:55 PM
I think the DH role can be filled insystem, with Anderson next year.

I'd say Anderson is our best outfielder right now...better than Pods, Rowand or Dye. If Anderson's playing, it shouldn't be as a DH.

kevin57
10-24-2005, 10:27 PM
Bore-ass is definitely Crede's agent, which is bad, sad news. Joe could and should take a nice, but not astronomical, raise which is what Bore-ass will demand. :puking:

PK deserves a nice but not stupid contract. Hopefully, he'll recognize that $12 million per year for five years, let's say, is more than fair.

SouthSoxFan
10-24-2005, 11:39 PM
PK deserves a nice but not stupid contract. Hopefully, he'll recognize that $12 million per year for five years, let's say, is more than fair.
Its going to be hard to call that fair if he gets an offer of 15-16 mil from one or two of the big spenders out there.

If only the Sox could sell WS tickets at market value. With so many willing to spend $1,000 and up for a seat, they could've banked enough to match any offer Paulie gets.

Realisitically though, the numbers we saw this year are probably as good as it gets for Konerko. He could very well be a repeat of the Carlos Beltran scenario.

Jurr
10-24-2005, 11:46 PM
I love these threads, especially after the schism that was caused with the FOGIDPK threads that permeated through this site during the early months of this season.

Flight #24
10-25-2005, 12:02 AM
I dont't know about Randa, but for sure Crede is gone after 2006. I believe Crede is a Boras client. Enough said. This is probably the main reason we drafted Josh Fields in the first roud of the 04 draft. Hopefully by 2007 Fields can reduce his strikeouts substantially.

The Boras issue doesn't really raise its head for at least another year (if then). At the end of this season, Crede will have 3.1 years of service time. That makes him eligible for arbitration, but not FA anytime soon as that requires 6 years.

So the full "Boras effect" wouldn't kick in until the 2008 offseason. Until then, the Sox only have to worry about arbitration. This year, it'll be a balance between an awesome postseason and great D all year and mediocre offensive stats. If he improves significantly next year, it'll mean a bigger raise.

But I'd bet KW gets Joe signed to a decent deal that avoids arbitration but still makes him an FA after '08. There's no alternate bidder, so it'll be a pure debate for Joe & Borass of possibly a higher 1-year payout v. the guaranteed contract for a couple of years.

supertwangreverb
10-25-2005, 12:41 AM
Ok, Jerry Krause!

It's about keeping the team together and forming a DYNASTY here. Why win just one championship when you can tie a bunch together?

At this point, I think we should worry about winning 1! Dont get me a wrong, more years like this would be amazing. But, I'll be happy MORE than happy with one championship.

Ron Karkovice
10-25-2005, 12:49 AM
Konerko's dad is calling numerous newspapers and radio stations as we discuss this. "I raised him, so I speak for him"

Flight #24
10-25-2005, 12:35 PM
FWIW, Buster Olney on Dan Patrick hypothesized that Konerko would get an "Adrian Beltre" type of deal, i.e. 5 years, $65M and followed that he might get as high as $70.

5/70 = $14M/yr, a number that's right on the border of what I think the Sox will match.

hawkjt
10-25-2005, 12:43 PM
I agree that 5 yr 65 is fair. 5 yrs 70 is the limit.

I honestly think that PK will get better- He works his arse off and he really had no protection without Frank in there. With Frank on base at a .440 rate PK will drive in more runs like he did in 04. I think he has shown the ability to spray the ball to right lately hence a higher BA.

Sign him.

VenturaSoxFan23
10-25-2005, 12:43 PM
I'd say Anderson is our best outfielder right now...better than Pods, Rowand or Dye. If Anderson's playing, it shouldn't be as a DH.

Amen. Don't pigeonhole the kid as a DH so soon. I think if anybody in the outfield goes DH after Everett's gone, it's Dye. (I prefer Frank fill that role, but I'm thinking ahead.) Let the kid play first before making him into Harold Baines the Sequel.

Hangar18
10-25-2005, 12:59 PM
First, I want to re-sign Paul Konerko.

Second, I realize you cannot create a dynasty by over-paying for Paul Konerko. If he commands upwards of $15 mil per for 4-5 years, we cannot afford that. Unfortunately this is a bad year to get a power hitting position player, since Konerko is far and away the best option out there.

A three year deal, somewhere in the $12-$15 mil per range sounds about right, or the front loaded $45 mil over three years deal that Frater Perdurabo suggested would work. Anything more is a significant risk, and not in the best interest of "dynasty building."




We couldve had him CHEAPER had we just resigned him during the offseason.
We all know why that didnt happen. Unfortuneately, in trying to not pay Konerko is going to cause us to Pay even more now

gf2020
10-25-2005, 01:16 PM
We couldve had him CHEAPER had we just resigned him during the offseason.
We all know why that didnt happen. Unfortuneately, in trying to not pay Konerko is going to cause us to Pay even more now

Isn't it possible that Paulie wouldn't be performing at this level had he been signed to an extension this past offseason? It might cost us later, but if he hadn't been playing at this level, we might not have even made the playoffs. Free agency is a big motivator and I am sure has caused him to raise his game.

BRDSR
10-25-2005, 01:20 PM
Amen. Don't pigeonhole the kid as a DH so soon. I think if anybody in the outfield goes DH after Everett's gone, it's Dye.

Eh...I admittedly don't know too much about Anderson's outfield abilities, but Dye is a stud out there. Despite some early season miscues, his arm is incredible. He's saved a dozen runs just by the threat of his arm in rightfield. I would say that if the DH needs to come from the outfield, then the Sox should get unconventional and put Scotty Pods at DH. He can cover ground but he doesn't get great jumps and his arm is below average at best. If that single had been hit to Dye on Sunday night the runner would have been out at the plate or held up at third. No question.

Frater Perdurabo
10-25-2005, 01:20 PM
We couldve had him CHEAPER had we just resigned him during the offseason.
We all know why that didnt happen. Unfortuneately, in trying to not pay Konerko is going to cause us to Pay even more now

Rather than toss out the "beating a dead horse" accusation, the over-use of which itself is like beating a dead horse, I'll just counter that I do not believe it is "cheapness" that caused KW not to offer Paulie a new contract earlier. Instead, as I've said before (and as PHG originally theorized), PK doesn't fit into the long-range plan of what KW and Ozzie are trying to do, explained elsewhere ad infinitum.

PK has not been in KW's long-term plans for the past 10 months, if not longer. However, thankfully, the increased revenues from six home postseason dates and the advance orders on 2006 season tickets should give the Sox enough payroll flexibility to sign Konerko to a fair extension.

Also, they ought to be able to compete with some open market offers if they front-load their contract offer to make it equal to other offers of the life of the deal. We all agree that an A-Rod-type deal would be foolish and stupid.

Also, why not enjoy the rest of this World Series run? Why wring our hands over something that is solely in the control of Paul Konerko himself? The more he loves this team and the more he's willing to offer a "hometown" discount to help retain the rest of the Sox' core, the more likely it is that he will remain with the Sox!

TaylorStSox
10-25-2005, 01:25 PM
I disagree that the whole team should be brought back. We need to try to upgrade at any reasonable spot. I'd like to upgrade CF. I also believe that landing one of Delgado, Giles or Helton > signing PK. Remember, PK hit something like .240 W/RISP. 100 Rbi's for a clean up hitter that hit behind Pods and Iguchi is a little disappointing.

Re: Crede... He's arbitration eligible so Boras doesn't have a whole lot of say. Plus, Boras believes in the system. He believes in arbitration. He won't get in the way of the process. Crede isn't the only Boras client on this team.

I'd also like to find an athletic catcher to back up AJ. AJ's poor defensively and I'd like to see somebody else catch Jenks in closing situations. His inability to stop balls hurts Jenks confidence to throw his offspeed stuff.

hawkjt
10-25-2005, 01:43 PM
Arow aint going anywhere. I am not his biggest fan and his power went away this year but he is fairly cheap and young and solid defensively. CF's are hard to find. Check with the yanks.

Helton is even pricier than PK. Plus have to give up prospects for him or Delgado. That is why PK makes sense . He can be retained without losing the farm system. I say Carl out,Frank in. Backup catcher- sure if you can find one. Bullpen can always use help. Otherwise -keep it going.

Canadian_SoxFan
10-25-2005, 01:44 PM
I disagree that the whole team should be brought back. We need to try to upgrade at any reasonable spot. I'd like to upgrade CF. I also believe that landing one of Delgado, Giles or Helton > signing PK. Remember, PK hit something like .240 W/RISP. 100 Rbi's for a clean up hitter that hit behind Pods and Iguchi is a little disappointing.

Re: Crede... He's arbitration eligible so Boras doesn't have a whole lot of say. Plus, Boras believes in the system. He believes in arbitration. He won't get in the way of the process. Crede isn't the only Boras client on this team.

I'd also like to find an athletic catcher to back up AJ. AJ's poor defensively and I'd like to see somebody else catch Jenks in closing situations. His inability to stop balls hurts Jenks confidence to throw his offspeed stuff. This team is also mainly based on defense. Who could replace Aaron's defensive abilities in center? He is a gold glove caliber outfielder and if you remember he hit something like .313 in 2004. There is no way we need another center fielder. And hpw can you criticize A.J's defensive abilities when he had a 0.999 fielding percentage?

Deuce
10-25-2005, 01:46 PM
I disagree that the whole team should be brought back. We need to try to upgrade at any reasonable spot. I'd like to upgrade CF. I also believe that landing one of Delgado, Giles or Helton > signing PK. Remember, PK hit something like .240 W/RISP. 100 Rbi's for a clean up hitter that hit behind Pods and Iguchi is a little disappointing.

Re: Crede... He's arbitration eligible so Boras doesn't have a whole lot of say. Plus, Boras believes in the system. He believes in arbitration. He won't get in the way of the process. Crede isn't the only Boras client on this team.

I'd also like to find an athletic catcher to back up AJ. AJ's poor defensively and I'd like to see somebody else catch Jenks in closing situations. His inability to stop balls hurts Jenks confidence to throw his offspeed stuff.

1. I have no clue why the Sox would "upgrade" CF. Rowand is doing a very good job, and is incredibly cheap. In addition, we have more outfielders down the pipe than we know what to do with. If anything, they would bring up a promising prospect... which is not going to happen since Rowand isn't going anywhere.

2. You are dead on about Konerko. He has come through big in the post-season, but given the frugality of Reinsdorf, he may not be a good buy. And since Paulie sets his own price, it really is up to him if he wants to stay with the Sox next year.

3. Crede is up for arbitration, but if you want to keep him, Boras is going to demand a new contract. If he doesn't get one, don't expect to retain Crede once he is eligible for free agency. Thats the way Boras works.

4. Given the success of rotating A.J. and Widger, I doubt we will see a change. Nothing that could alter the pitching/catching chemistry will happen.

Deuce

Frater Perdurabo
10-25-2005, 02:05 PM
1. I have no clue why the Sox would "upgrade" CF. Rowand is doing a very good job, and is incredibly cheap. In addition, we have more outfielders down the pipe than we know what to do with. If anything, they would bring up a promising prospect... which is not going to happen since Rowand isn't going anywhere.

The scouts I most trust on WSI have said that Anderson is a better defensive CF than Rowand. Tangential to this point, however, is that Rowand and Anderson seem to be good friends and dugout buddies even though next year they likely will be fighting for one job, or one might get traded to make way for the other. This speaks volumes about the importance of "team" to the whole squad.

Frater Perdurabo
10-25-2005, 02:10 PM
And how can you criticize A.J's defensive abilities when he had a 0.999 fielding percentage?

Daver's the expert on catchers' defense, but what I've seen is that A.J. has a tendency not to field the ball as well as he should. Contreras and Garcia led the AL in wild pitches this year, but many of those probably could have been stopped by a better defensive catcher. I'm not criticizing A.J., but having watched every ALCS and WS game, it's fairly obvious to me that A.J. isn't a great defensive catcher. Of course, he has more than made up for those deficiencies by working so well with the Sox pitchers, by getting some timely hits, by being a great teammate, and by getting into the heads of opponents.

maurice
10-25-2005, 02:31 PM
I agree that this thread is way premature and that we should be enjoying the WS run instead. However, I'll take the time to make a few quick points:

1. "Pay him whatever he wants" is a very bad attitude for a GM to have.
2. KW definitely will upgrade the DH spot this offseason.
3. The Sox cannot count on a healthy Frank for 2006, but hopefully he'll agree to a relatively small deal.
4. Maybe a chance at a WS ring will make the Sox more attractive to Giles in free agency.
5. The teams that currently have Delgado, Helton, and other high-priced boppers would have to eat part of their salary in any deal, possibly reducing their contract to Konerko levels or lower.
6. AJ is not a good defensive catcher in terms of blocking and throwing the ball, but he calls a great game and works well with pitchers. He also has a good bat for his position and bats left-handed. He's a key part of this team.
7. Anderson is an outstanding defensive CF. His reactions shots in the dugout with Rowand were priceless.

TaylorStSox
10-25-2005, 02:42 PM
This team is also mainly based on defense. Who could replace Aaron's defensive abilities in center? He is a gold glove caliber outfielder and if you remember he hit something like .313 in 2004. There is no way we need another center fielder. And hpw can you criticize A.J's defensive abilities when he had a 0.999 fielding percentage?

CF defense at the Cell is overated. The park has virtually no gaps. Anderson could step in right now and put up equal or better numbers at the plate while playing CF as well or better.

TaylorStSox
10-25-2005, 02:48 PM
Helton, Giles and Delgado > Konerko. They're just better hitters. Period. Also, they fit into our needs more. They all get on base at a better clip and drive in runs at a better clip. Helton is an exceptional defensive 1st baseman. If we're going to spend an enourmous amount of money on PK, it would be better spent with any of those 3.

Ideally, I'd like to have Konerko AND any combination of those 3.

AJ brings a ton of intangibles, but he's pretty bad defensively. I'm talking about upgrading our backup C spot with an athletic, defensive catcher. AJ's still number one on the depth chart, but a defensive replacement would be nice.

Re: Boras. If you don't think Boras wouldn't advise Crede to complete his arbitration, then you don't know much about Boras. He's one of the biggest proponents for arbitration as he believes in the system that's currently in place. Crede's not going anywhere until 2008. Unless he's traded.

Hangar18
10-25-2005, 03:17 PM
Rather than toss out the "beating a dead horse" accusation, the over-use of which itself is like beating a dead horse, I'll just counter that I do not believe it is "cheapness" that caused KW not to offer Paulie a new contract earlier. Instead, as I've said before (and as PHG originally theorized), PK doesn't fit into the long-range plan of what KW and Ozzie are trying to do, explained elsewhere ad infinitum.

PK has not been in KW's long-term plans for the past 10 months, if not longer. However, thankfully, the increased revenues from six home postseason dates and the advance orders on 2006 season tickets should give the Sox enough payroll flexibility to sign Konerko to a fair extension.

Also, they ought to be able to compete with some open market offers if they front-load their contract offer to make it equal to other offers of the life of the deal. We all agree that an A-Rod-type deal would be foolish and stupid.

Also, why not enjoy the rest of this World Series run? Why wring our hands over something that is solely in the control of Paul Konerko himself? The more he loves this team and the more he's willing to offer a "hometown" discount to help retain the rest of the Sox' core, the more likely it is that he will remain with the Sox!

I wouldve liked it if we paid BELOW market value for Paulie

Flight #24
10-25-2005, 03:33 PM
I wouldve liked it if we paid BELOW market value for Paulie

Not if he'd put up a year like 2 years ago you wouldn't. That was the issue - KW didn't want to gamble on a long-term deal on a guy with a somewhat inconsistent history. Obviously, after the season he put up, that history now has 2 very strong years in a row and looks different.

You win some of those gambles and you lose some. It's impossible to optimize a situation against all potential endpoints.

Jerome
10-25-2005, 03:40 PM
A.J. and Garland will be getting huge raises. Konerko will be getting a huge raise. Hopefully JR will bring everyone of importance back.

IMO to save money we can get rid of EL Duque (3.5 million), Marte (1.25), and Everett (4 millioin).

BMac can take EL Duque's place, Anderson should take over DH / OF, and a replacement for Marte can be found off the scrap heap.

Deuce
10-25-2005, 03:43 PM
I wouldve liked it if we paid BELOW market value for Paulie

I doubt we were ever going to resign Paulie below market value. It's a seller's market for home-run hitting first basemen these days.

Deuce

Frater Perdurabo
10-25-2005, 04:19 PM
I wouldve liked it if we paid BELOW market value for Paulie

Hindsight is 20/20, Hangar. :wink: