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Lip Man 1
10-23-2005, 02:03 PM
The author of 'Eight Men Out'. Pretty interesting conversation.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-051021outloudeliotasinof,1,5589324.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

Lip

TornLabrum
10-23-2005, 02:42 PM
I have problems with the Cicotte bonus myth rearing it's ugly head one more time. Rich Lindberg pretty much demolished it in Stealing First. Lindberg had access to all the documents in the Sox possession, and he did a good job of checking the box scores (he has the box score of every Sox game ever played) to show that Comiskey didn't renege on any promised bonus.

Asinof also understated Jackson's salary by over a grand, too. Eight Men out is a good historical novel. But anybody who confuses Billy Maharg with Peaches Graham and then attributes one of the principals in the story as recognizing Maharg as Graham is writing fiction.

greenpeach
10-23-2005, 03:22 PM
I have problems with the Cicotte bonus myth rearing it's ugly head one more time. Rich Lindberg pretty much demolished it in Stealing First. Lindberg had access to all the documents in the Sox possession, and he did a good job of checking the box scores (he has the box score of every Sox game ever played) to show that Comiskey didn't renege on any promised bonus.

Asinof also understated Jackson's salary by over a grand, too. Eight Men out is a good historical novel. But anybody who confuses Billy Maharg with Peaches Graham and then attributes one of the principals in the story as recognizing Maharg as Graham is writing fiction.

Let's put it this way. It made for very compelling reading. I always took his book as more historical fiction like "In Cold Blood" than the gospel truth.

jackbrohamer
10-23-2005, 03:42 PM
Eight Men out is a good historical novel. But anybody who confuses Billy Maharg with Peaches Graham and then attributes one of the principals in the story as recognizing Maharg as Graham is writing fiction.

Good point, it is a "novel." Asinov admitted that none of the players were willing to talk about the situation, even in the early 1960s when he wrote the book, and he based a lot of it on media accounts which were --- to put it mildly --- sensationalized.

TommyJohn
10-23-2005, 06:19 PM
I have problems with the Cicotte bonus myth rearing it's ugly head one more time. Rich Lindberg pretty much demolished it in Stealing First. Lindberg had access to all the documents in the Sox possession, and he did a good job of checking the box scores (he has the box score of every Sox game ever played) to show that Comiskey didn't renege on any promised bonus.

Asinof also understated Jackson's salary by over a grand, too. Eight Men out is a good historical novel. But anybody who confuses Billy Maharg with Peaches Graham and then attributes one of the principals in the story as recognizing Maharg as Graham is writing fiction.

He said in the interview that Cicotte was held back the last two weeks of the
season for fear he'd win 30. "That's scandalous!" he says, breathlessly I
assume.

Well, has Asinof actually done any research? A quick check (all of 20 seconds)
of www.retrosheet.org (http://www.retrosheet.org) shows that Cicotte started on 9/24/19 (the last week
of the season) and won his 29th game. According to Rich Lindberg, Cicotte
was already in on the fix. Then, Cicotte started the last game of the season
on 9/28 against Detroit!! The Sox lost that one. So how in the hell can Asinof
continue to sell his slander when it is provably false? Who's being "scandalous"
here?

Correction, I don't believe he won on the 24th, although the Sox did. I think
I read that he had two chances at 30, the 24th and 28th. I need to grab
Stealing First and look. But back to what I was saying. How can Asinof
continue to promote what can be proven as a lie? Of course, John Sayles
changed it to him being "held back" at midseason, as if anyone could tell at
midseason what will happen at the end. I mean, Jon Garland was on a pace
to win 25 at one point, wasn't he? 20 at the most. Unfortunately people
have accepted Asinof and Sayles as speakers of gospel truth.

JBJas42
10-23-2005, 06:45 PM
I don't know how historically accurate Asinof and Sayles were in their book and movie versions of Eight Men Out, but what I can tell you is that I wrote a 35-page (or so) legal analysis of the story (as told in the movie version) in my last semester of law school. How's that for comical? I really think FOX ought to interview me pre-game.

I would offer to show it to anyone who cared to see it, but I'd be afraid of getting pelted with rotten fruit since, as I recall, I referred to the Black Sox curse in the paper and said that the paper was my attempt to break it. I for one always thought that if anyone had a curse, it was us. It was no excuse for failure to be sure, but the Cubs' and Red Sox's lore was always so lame.

Oh... and by the way... I wrote this paper in April 2005, so you can all thank me for writing it this year when they hoist the trophy later this week! :cool: