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View Full Version : sack Kenny Williams


Vsahajpal
12-12-2001, 06:06 PM
what's up with this guy? He has no luck whatsoever :gulp:

CerberusWG
12-12-2001, 06:08 PM
Let's let Kenny throw Royce in front of a bus and see what happens. If Royce lives KW is cursed, if he dies then we all rejoice.

bringbackrobin
12-12-2001, 06:18 PM
How about Carlos Lee, Kenny Williams, and Jon Garland for Brian Giles and a General Manager to be named later.

OfficerKarkovice
12-12-2001, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by bringbackrobin
How about Carlos Lee, Kenny Williams, and Jon Garland for Brian Giles and a General Manager to be named later.

Haha...where do we sign?

AsInWreck
12-12-2001, 06:28 PM
KW is a symptom not the disease/as long as reinsdorf is at the helm you can count on an idiot,yes man or some sort of evil clone in the GM
position

czalgosz
12-12-2001, 07:48 PM
Aside from Ken Harrelson, I'd say that we have had some pretty good GM's under Reinsdorf. Roland Hemond was good, and so was Ron Schueler. I'd say the jury's still out on Ken Williams. What did he do to get everyone so worked up today? It's not his fault the deal fell through.

Daver
12-12-2001, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Aside from Ken Harrelson, I'd say that we have had some pretty good GM's under Reinsdorf. Roland Hemond was good, and so was Ron Schueler. I'd say the jury's still out on Ken Williams. What did he do to get everyone so worked up today? It's not his fault the deal fell through.

I was wondering the same thing myself,he has had just over a year on the job and everyone wants his head.Ken Harrelson barely lasted a year and the Sox spent three years recovering from it.

But then again what the hell do I know?

longshot7
12-12-2001, 08:00 PM
Ron Schueler was good?!!!

This is the guy who signed Jaime Navarro in 96 because he thought Roger Clemens was washed up.

I'm glad he's gone.

Daver
12-12-2001, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by longshot7
Ron Schueler was good?!!!

Schueler was good his first five years at the job,he got burnt out and didn't care towards the end,kinda just going through the motions,but he did put together some good teams,the 94 team leaps to mind...........

PaleHoseGeorge
12-12-2001, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Aside from Ken Harrelson, I'd say that we have had some pretty good GM's under Reinsdorf. Roland Hemond was good, and so was Ron Schueler. I'd say the jury's still out on Ken Williams. What did he do to get everyone so worked up today? It's not his fault the deal fell through.

Since the news leak on the trade came from Chicago, you have to assume it was the Sox who were the source of the leak. Of course the deal wasn't completed, and that's why Kenny looks like a clown explaining to both Garland and Singleton why he's happy they're still members of the team.

:slowswing :jon
"We're not feeling the love, Kenny." :angry:

:KW
"Doh!"

Daver
12-12-2001, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Since the news leak on the trade came from Chicago, you have to assume it was the Sox who were the source of the leak

Never assume PHG,you should know the consequences of that.The leak was actually ESPN radio,which suggests a larger idiocy than just Chicago.

But then again what the hell do I know?

PaleHoseGeorge
12-12-2001, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by daver
Never assume PHG,you should know the consequences of that.The leak was actually ESPN radio,which suggests a larger idiocy than just Chicago.


Wasn't it Bruce Levine who "broke" the story? If so, that's Chicago-based, even though he works for ESPN radio.

If not, I stand corrected.

Daver
12-12-2001, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge



Wasn't it Bruce Levine who "broke" the story? If so, that's Chicago-based, even though he works for ESPN radio.

If not, I stand corrected.

Ah yes the 4 letter word ESPN.They only run with what they get from the mothership unless it is game coverage from here in Chicago.All of the updates come from Bristol Conn.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-12-2001, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by daver
Ah yes the 4 letter word ESPN.They only run with what they get from the mothership unless it is game coverage from here in Chicago.All of the updates come from Bristol Conn.

I didn't get the news about the trade until I logged on late this afternoon, so somebody else is going to have to help me out here.

Was Bruce Levine the source of the imminent Erstad trade announcement, or did he attribute it to someone else?

I know ESPN-Chicago usually sends Levine to bird dog Sox news, unlike the Score which usually does nothing more than work the phones from Belmont Avenue.

Is Levine at the Winter Meetings or still back in Chicago?

Tragg
12-12-2001, 09:54 PM
I believe the details of the trade were published by reputable new sources, cbs and espn.

On the other topic, Scheuler made some horrendous trades. Like him or hate him, and i hate him, the Sosa deal was terrible. Remember the Cory Snyder deal? Eeeeekkkkk. He let Eric King and another solid pitcher go in the expansion draft (I think he gave one away to the cubs). Even the white flag didn't achieve all it could have. He hired two terrible managers - LaMont and Bevington, and let the best one we had go - Torborg.

His best moves were like KW's - the trade of a minor leaguer for a minor leaguer. Also that Jim Abbot trade was pretty good.

The GM who set the Sox up for the 1990s was Himes.

Maybe I'm wrong - perhaps some of those deals were Himes deals - the years run together.

czalgosz
12-12-2001, 10:42 PM
Greg Hibbard was the pitcher let go in the expansion draft - I believe he was drafted by the Marlins, who immediately traded him to the Cubs.

To be fair, that draft was after the 1992 season, when the Sox were loaded with talent. I remember carefully going over the Sox roster and realizing that they were going to lose someone good no matter what.

Himes was in love with Sammy Sosa. He picked up Sosa and Wilson Alvarez for Harold Baines and Fred Manrique (remember him?) - that was a great trade for the Sox. When they traded Sosa and Ken Patterson for George Bell, you have to remember what was going on that year. George Bell had had a very good year for 1991 standards -

.285 25 HRs 86 RBIs OPS .796

And Sammy Sosa had not -

.203 10 HRs 33 RBIs OPS .576 (!?!)

He had been with the Sox for two and a half seasons and it seemed he was getting worse instead of better. Larry Himes had just moved to the North Side and insisted on getting him back.

The Sox were coming off a 1991 season where they had won 87 ballgames, finishing 8 games behind the World Champion Twins.

They proceeded to make the type of moves that would be lauded on this board - they got rid of Scott Fletcher and Sosa and added Steve Sax (who had hit .300 the year before for the Yankees)

They had this lineup for the 1992 White Sox -

LF - Tim Raines
2B - Steve Sax
1B - Frank Thomas
DH - George Bell
3B - Robin Ventura
CF - Lance Johnson
RF - Dan Pasqua / Shawn Abner
C - Ron Karkovice
SS - Ozzie Guillen

On paper, this looked like a great lineup, and with a rotation of Jack McDowell (17-10, 3.41 in '91), Greg Hibbard (11-11, 4.31), Kirk McCaskill (10-19, 4.26 for California), Alex Fernandez (9-13, 4.51) and Charlie Hough (9-10, 4.02), things looked pretty good. They also had a solid bullpen, with Wilson Alvarez, Terry Leach, Roberto Hernandez, Scott Radinsky, and Bobby Thigpen.

Of course, Thigpen completely fell apart that season, Sax was a complete bust, and Guillen tore his ACL in like the first week of the season and was out for the rest of the year, and it was wait 'till next year time. They finished one game worse than they had the previous year (86-76) and finished third behind Texas and Minnesota.

So, I guess my point is in this rant is that the Sox had made definite steps towards winning now, filling holes in the cleanup spot, at second base, and in the starting rotation. They mortgaged some of their future by letting Sosa go.

If this board had been active at the time, we all would have been jumping for joy that Schueler had made moves to make the Sox better. Instead, we all bash Schueler because hindsight is 20-20.

Tragg
12-12-2001, 10:46 PM
Thanks for the recap. Hibbard was the guy. We gave King away to someone around that time as well.

OfficerKarkovice
12-12-2001, 11:02 PM
Hey come on...we still had the one and only:

C - Ron Karkovice