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View Full Version : How do yall feel bout our Bull Pen?


STROSFAN
10-20-2005, 11:12 PM
Sorry, not too familiar with the White Sox bull pen, how do they match up against us? Im pretty confident in our pen, it will be interesting to see if your BP's 2 wks off will have any efffect (I know they pitched a simulated game recently).:bandance:

Holy Toledo!

VivaOzzie
10-20-2005, 11:53 PM
Cotts - He's been money, probably the guy I'm most confident in.

Jenks - Solid, though lack of work and this incredibly huge stage makes me somewhat uneasy. I'm still very confident in him closing though, as no Astros have seen him.

Hermanson - This extended period of rest has to be good for his back. I hope Ozzie utilizes Hermy this series. He's a vet who was stellar with a healthy back.

Politte - I think he could possibly suffer from an extended break, as he usually gets a lot of work. He is still a great option in 7th and 8th inning situations in a close game. Our best option when we need 2 late innings, non-save situation.

Hernandez - I don't consider him bullpen, but this rest will be great for him. I look for him to come in and dominate whenever the time comes.

Vizcaino - Strictly mop-up. Please, Ozzie, STRICTLY MOP-UP.

Marte - With Ozzie's supreme faith in him, could prove to be the Astros' MVP if given the chance.

MRKARNO
10-21-2005, 12:06 AM
Jenks: Totally getting downplayed in this series. He's going to be a major positive factor for the White Sox IMO. Fastball ranges from 97 to 100 MPH and he has good control over it. Devastating curveball which he can throw for strikes. He throws a changeup on occasion for good measure. He sometimes has issues when he throws too many fastballs and neglects his curve on occassion. This is when he runs into issues. But if he's throwing his curve, he's tough to beat.

Cotts: Totally awesome. Deceptive fastball with excellent control. Some type of breaking ball that I'm forgetting, but it's usally pretty effective. He can come in and pitch out of big jams. If you need a double play, he's the man that Ozzie calls upon.

Politte: 95 MPH fastball and slider. He works primarily off the fastball though. He was totally awesome this year, able to induce popups at will and throw in a lot of K's for good measure. Him and Cotts combine to form the core of our setup.

Hermanson: Total unknown quantity at this point. Good control led to a ton of success this year but he's had some back problems that has really limited him. I get the sense that Ozzie was saving him for the most critical situations once Septeber rolled around because of his back problems, so he may play a big role. He has yet to pitch this postseason. He has pitched a grand total of 3 innings since sept 20th. A big performance from him, seemingly out of nowhere, would not surprise me.

El Duque: Frustrating at times as a starter, but looked the best I've seen him all year as a reliever. His fastball was clocking in at 92 MPH where earlier as a starter he was only getting up to 87 on some nights. His breaking pitches are all very deceptive. He wiggled out of the biggest situation imaginable, bases loaded 0 outs up by 1, so he will be called upon in any situation if need be.

Vizcaino: After a poor start, he got better down the stretch. He throws a fastball and a slider. If you see him, that's good news. He doesnt like to pitch after long rest and he's had long rest. He will only be called upon if the previous 5 are unavailable.

Marte: Throws fastball from 93 to 97 and a big breaking slider at 79. He's been terrible lately, but Ozzie still may go to him. White Sox fans do not want to see him in the game at all against any lefty. He's a lefty that cant get out lefties.

Banix12
10-21-2005, 12:06 AM
Politte - I think he could possibly suffer from an extended break, as he usually gets a lot of work. He is still a great option in 7th and 8th inning situations in a close game. Our best option when we need 2 late innings, non-save situation.

I acutally think Politte might benefit from the extended layoff, mostly because his game usually is to challenge hitters with his plus fastball. The last month or so of the season his fastball seemed to lose a little bit of zip on it, hopefully he comes back stronger from the layoff.

maybe though his fastball just looked slow compared to Jenks.

And you forget, he can swing the bat, just ask the rockies.

SOXintheBURGH
10-21-2005, 12:09 AM
Everytime I see one of these threads.. it hits me.

The White Sox are going to be in the World Series.

VivaOzzie
10-21-2005, 12:11 AM
I acutally think Politte might benefit from the extended layoff, mostly because his game usually is to challenge hitters with his plus fastball. The last month or so of the season his fastball seemed to lose a little bit of zip on it, hopefully he comes back stronger from the layoff.

maybe though his fastball just looked slow compared to Jenks.

And you forget, he can swing the bat, just ask the rockies.

I agree, his fastball will have more pop on it. I just hope his accuracy is still pinpoint after a break. Hitting spots is what makes him so good.

elrod
10-21-2005, 12:14 AM
Vizcaino is the only guy I worry about on too much rest. He will be strictly mop-up, however. Honestly, I don't think the 2 week layoff will hurt them at all, as long as they get their side sessions in.

Killer-Beees
10-21-2005, 12:15 AM
Everytime I see one of these threads.. it hits me.

The White Sox are going to be in the World Series.


http://got-z.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_postwhore.gif

MRKARNO
10-21-2005, 12:15 AM
Politte needed some rest. The velocity on his fastball had clearly been down the last few outings that I saw. That extra 3 MPH should come to his aid.

DenverSock
10-21-2005, 12:26 AM
Jenks: Totally getting downplayed in this series. He's going to be a major positive factor for the White Sox IMO. Fastball ranges from 97 to 100 MPH and he has good control over it. Devastating curveball which he can throw for strikes. He throws a changeup on occasion for good measure. He sometimes has issues when he throws too many fastballs and neglects his curve on occassion. This is when he runs into issues. But if he's throwing his curve, he's tough to beat.

I sometimes worry about Jenks, he had a few wild spells when he first came up this year. :(: Been marvelous ever since though.

Banix12
10-21-2005, 12:26 AM
Hey, Killler-Beees and STROSFAN. How about sharing your impressions of the stros pen with us. I think most of us are familiar with Lidge and Wheeler but haven't seen much of the rest of it. I know they have Qualls and Gallo but I don't know a ton about them.

DenverSock
10-21-2005, 12:29 AM
Marte - With Ozzie's supreme faith in him, could prove to be the Astros' MVP if given the chance.

Why oh why, do we we not have Bmac instead of Marte?

Nellie_Fox
10-21-2005, 12:34 AM
Why oh why, do we we not have Bmac instead of Marte?Don't you mean "Dmar?":rolleyes:

Killer-Beees
10-21-2005, 12:48 AM
Hey, Killler-Beees and STROSFAN. How about sharing your impressions of the stros pen with us. I think most of us are familiar with Lidge and Wheeler but haven't seen much of the rest of it. I know they have Qualls and Gallo but I don't know a ton about them.

You have probably seen enough of our starters while ya'll were resting.

Gallo - Pure specialty pitcher against lefties. Many times in for just one batter. Left in against righties if he did well against last batter and there are now 2 outs.

Qualls - Solid IMO and he brings experience to our youngsters. Seems to be the Papa figure of the bull pen. I would say a closer if Brad is ailing.

Springer - I shuttered when he pitched last year, but much better season this year. Possible long relief if needed in regular season of course, now it would be Wandy.

Wandy - Starting pitcher (Reg season) with promising stuff, especially with the elders guiding him along. Wandy would most likely perform long relief if needed.

Astacio - Made the playoff roster which surprised me. Prone to get banged up badly. Garner believes in him for some reason. When he places his slider in correct spot, it's hard to hit.

Duckworth - Don't know why he didn't make the post season roster with his microscopic 11.02 ERA :whiner:


Staff to Staff comparison to the league - I love these guys as a group!

STROSFAN
10-21-2005, 12:59 AM
I wish we had Monroe back!!!!:whatever:

santo=dorf
10-21-2005, 02:07 AM
Don't you mean "Dmar?":rolleyes:

Well according to a few, Brandon has been known as "BMac" for some time.

Take it up with his family.

hose
10-21-2005, 07:04 AM
http://got-z.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_postwhore.gif


:rolling:

DenverSock
10-21-2005, 10:12 AM
Well according to a few, Brandon has been known as "BMac" for some time.

Take it up with his family.

Aha!

Killer-Beees
10-21-2005, 07:54 PM
Hahahaha....Bump

MarySwiss
10-21-2005, 07:57 PM
Hey, Y'all!

What makes you think you're going to see any of our bullpen?

:cool:

maurice
10-21-2005, 08:10 PM
What makes you think you're going to see any of our bullpen?

To be fair, they'll probably see Jenks and maybe Cotts . . . though the 'Stros hitters probably won't be able to see the ball after it leaves their hand. Let me give you a preview of Jenks:
- 99 MPH fastball = strike 1 looking / drooling
- 99 MPH fastball = strike 2 swinging
- 80 MPH nose-to-toes curve = strike 3 swinging
Cotts doesn't throw nearly as hard, but the results are the same.

Here's a statistical summary:
- Jenks: 2.75 ERA, 11.44 K/9
- Cotts: 1.94 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, .179 BAA, 8.65 K/9
- Hermanson: 2.04 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 34 saves
- Pollitte: 2.00 ERA, 0.94 WHIP, .181 BAA
- Marte: 3.77 ERA, 10.72 K/9
- Vizcaino: 3.73 ERA (2.60 since All-Star break)
- Hernandez: #5 starter; 0.00 ERA in only 3 regular-season IP as a reliver
In his only playoff appearance, Hernandez came in with the bases loaded and nobody out, faced the middle of the Red Sox lineup, ended the inning without allowing a run to score, and pitched 3 IP, 0 R, 1 H, 0 BB, 4 K.
:gulp:

We have 3 guys with an ERA under 2.05 in the AL. Houston has zero, despite playing in the NL.
We have 6+ guys with an ERA under 4. Houston has 4 (though one of those guys only pitched about 20 innings).

---

:crede
"Play some ****ing Journey!"

MarySwiss
10-21-2005, 08:13 PM
To be fair, they'll probably see Jenks and maybe Cotts . . . though the 'Stros hitters probably won't be able to see the ball after it leaves their hand. Let me give you a preview of Jenks:
- 99 MPH fastball = strike 1 looking / drooling
- 99 MPH fastball = strike 2 swinging
- 80 MPH nose-to-toes curve = strike 3 swinging
Cotts doesn't thorw nearly as hard, but the results are the same.

Here's a statistical summary:
- Jenks: 2.75 ERA, 11.44 K/9
- Cotts: 1.94 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, .179 BAA, 8.65 K/9
- Hermanson: 2.04 ERA, 1.10 WHIP, 34 saves
- Pollitte: 2.00 ERA, 0.94 WHIP, .181 BAA
- Marte: 3.77 ERA, 10.72 K/9
- Vizcaino: 3.73 ERA (2.60 since All-Star break)
- Hernandez: #5 starter; 0.00 ERA in only 3 regular-season IP as a reliver
In his only playoff appearance, Hernandez came in with the bases loaded and nobody out, faced the middle of the Red Sox lineup, ended the inning without allowing a run to score, and pitched 3 IP, 0 R, 1 H, 0 BB, 4 K.
:gulp:



---

:crede
"Play some ****ing Journey!"

Maurice,
I love it when you talk stats!

Killer-Beees
10-22-2005, 07:52 AM
Hey, Y'all!

What makes you think you're going to see any of our bullpen?

:cool:

Because now you have to play in a NL park, and your DH will not be in effect (thank God, because that's just not real baseball :angry: ).

No DH, then bull pen will come into play.

Nellie_Fox
10-23-2005, 03:34 AM
Because now you have to play in a NL park, and your DH will not be in effect (thank God, because that's just not real baseball :angry: ).

No DH, then bull pen will come into play.Yeah, there were no complete games before the DH. How I loved watching Mickey Lolich waddle up to the plate, take three weak swings, and sit down.

By the way, how'd you like our bullpen tonight?

Banix12
10-23-2005, 03:56 AM
Because now you have to play in a NL park, and your DH will not be in effect (thank God, because that's just not real baseball :angry: ).

No DH, then bull pen will come into play.

Someone is a bit bitter.

You'll find some of us here find that on most days Everett doesn't hit much better than a pitcher, so not really a crippling loss. Certainly it's a bat we'd like in but the lineup is still darn good without him.

Garland and Garcia can actually handle a bat ok and the sox bench is largely worthless outside Ozuna and Everett in the NL park. Unless the game is insanely close I doubt the starters get lifted before their time.

If the Astros want to get into the sox bullpen they have to start taking some pitches, Contreras was taken out because his effectivness was waning but he was only around 87 pitches at the time.

And why so eager to see the pen anyway, Cotts, Politte, and hermanson were three of the best releivers in baseball this year and you just saw what Jenks can bring to the table. Toss in El Duque and it's pretty damn solid.

DenverSock
10-23-2005, 10:44 AM
Yeah, there were no complete games before the DH. How I loved watching Mickey Lolich waddle up to the plate, take three weak swings, and sit down.

By the way, how'd you like our bullpen tonight?

Now I've not done the research myself but it seems some of our pitchers didn't handle the bat all that badly down in the minors. Perhaps we shouldn't worry too much. It seems that Garcia, for example, who's scheduled to pitch in Houston, will not be the worst liability in the line-up.:noevil:

Ol' No. 2
10-23-2005, 10:47 AM
Someone is a bit bitter.

You'll find some of us here find that on most days Everett doesn't hit much better than a pitcher, so not really a crippling loss. Certainly it's a bat we'd like in but the lineup is still darn good without him.

Garland and Garcia can actually handle a bat ok and the sox bench is largely worthless outside Ozuna and Everett in the NL park. Unless the game is insanely close I doubt the starters get lifted before their time.

If the Astros want to get into the sox bullpen they have to start taking some pitches, Contreras was taken out because his effectivness was waning but he was only around 87 pitches at the time.

And why so eager to see the pen anyway, Cotts, Politte, and hermanson were three of the best releivers in baseball this year and you just saw what Jenks can bring to the table. Toss in El Duque and it's pretty damn solid.It looked to me like Contreras was tightening up because of the cold. No problem in the dome. The boys will be taking advantage of those Crawford boxes, too.

No need to pull a pitcher for a PH when you've got a 5 run lead.:cool:

SoxFan76
10-23-2005, 01:36 PM
Because now you have to play in a NL park, and your DH will not be in effect (thank God, because that's just not real baseball :angry: ).

No DH, then bull pen will come into play.

Real baseball is seeing the 8th place hitter get intentionally walked to see a pitcher go down on 3 straight pitches and end the inning? Hmm, whatever floats your boat, as they say.

Pitcher: .150 0 2
DH: .265 30 90-100

I'll take "fake" baseball any day I guess. :rolleyes:

TDog
10-23-2005, 03:23 PM
Real baseball is seeing the 8th place hitter get intentionally walked to see a pitcher go down on 3 straight pitches and end the inning? Hmm, whatever floats your boat, as they say.

Pitcher: .150 0 2
DH: .265 30 90-100

I'll take "fake" baseball any day I guess. :rolleyes:

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but:

I thought before the 1973 season that the DH (which some NL teams also voted for to try out after the 1972 season) would be unpleasant. It isn't such a bad thing. It does take away the natural replacement of pitchers from pinch hitting and requiring managers to look differently at how they handle their pitchers. In a lot of NL games, pitching changes are decided for managers. It took awhile for AL managers to figure this out three decades ago, and starters got a lot more decisions. In 1973, the AL had 12 20-game winners and a couple of other pitchers who came close -- one with 19 wins and two with 18 wins. This year there was only one 20-game winner in the AL, despite the fact that five teams won between 93 and 99 games. While I dislike the closer mentality, bullpens obviously are just as important in the AL as they are in the NL.

I don't see the lack of a DH having a huge effect on the bullpen. The situation will dictate everything. Saturday night, the Astros had a DH and still went three deep in the bullpen, getting six innings for situational reasons.

Guillen was a successful bench coach in the NL and the Sox play what many consider to be an NL game. The Sox have a strong bullpen, and I don't think games in NL parks will be a problem.

nebraskasox
10-23-2005, 03:33 PM
By the way, how'd you like our bullpen tonight?
[/QUOTE]

I like Ozzie's comment after the game, "They don't see the bullpen. Now they see it."

MarySwiss
10-23-2005, 03:41 PM
To be fair, they'll probably see Jenks and maybe Cotts . . . though the 'Stros hitters probably won't be able to see the ball after it leaves their hand. Let me give you a preview of Jenks:
- 99 MPH fastball = strike 1 looking / drooling
- 99 MPH fastball = strike 2 swinging
- 80 MPH nose-to-toes curve = strike 3 swinging
Cotts doesn't throw nearly as hard, but the results are the same.


Wow! That quote was from a couple of days ago.
Pretty good stuff there, Maurice! :smile:

Soxfan_25
10-23-2005, 05:50 PM
Vizcaino sux and ya never know which Damaso you're gonna get when he toes the rubber, but, the rest of the staff.......monieeeeeeeeeeee
Presenting your 2005 World Champion Chicago White Sox :D:

buehrle4cy05
10-23-2005, 06:00 PM
Vizcaino sux

I beg to differ. Viz had a few bad outings this year, and some of those were because he was into his third inning of work. He's a serviceable reliever.

And also, it's "sucks", not "sux".

ATXBMX
10-23-2005, 06:02 PM
Don't sell Jenks short, he's been known to reach back and toss them up there around 102 mph sometimes. :cool:

TaylorStSox
10-23-2005, 06:14 PM
Jenks: Totally getting downplayed in this series. He's going to be a major positive factor for the White Sox IMO. Fastball ranges from 97 to 100 MPH and he has good control over it. Devastating curveball which he can throw for strikes. He throws a changeup on occasion for good measure. He sometimes has issues when he throws too many fastballs and neglects his curve on occassion. This is when he runs into issues. But if he's throwing his curve, he's tough to beat.

Cotts: Totally awesome. Deceptive fastball with excellent control. Some type of breaking ball that I'm forgetting, but it's usally pretty effective. He can come in and pitch out of big jams. If you need a double play, he's the man that Ozzie calls upon.

Politte: 95 MPH fastball and slider. He works primarily off the fastball though. He was totally awesome this year, able to induce popups at will and throw in a lot of K's for good measure. Him and Cotts combine to form the core of our setup.

Hermanson: Total unknown quantity at this point. Good control led to a ton of success this year but he's had some back problems that has really limited him. I get the sense that Ozzie was saving him for the most critical situations once Septeber rolled around because of his back problems, so he may play a big role. He has yet to pitch this postseason. He has pitched a grand total of 3 innings since sept 20th. A big performance from him, seemingly out of nowhere, would not surprise me.

El Duque: Frustrating at times as a starter, but looked the best I've seen him all year as a reliever. His fastball was clocking in at 92 MPH where earlier as a starter he was only getting up to 87 on some nights. His breaking pitches are all very deceptive. He wiggled out of the biggest situation imaginable, bases loaded 0 outs up by 1, so he will be called upon in any situation if need be.

Vizcaino: After a poor start, he got better down the stretch. He throws a fastball and a slider. If you see him, that's good news. He doesnt like to pitch after long rest and he's had long rest. He will only be called upon if the previous 5 are unavailable.

Marte: Throws fastball from 93 to 97 and a big breaking slider at 79. He's been terrible lately, but Ozzie still may go to him. White Sox fans do not want to see him in the game at all against any lefty. He's a lefty that cant get out lefties.


It's a little late, but I'm bored and want to give it a shot...

Hermanson: Obviously sufferring from injury issues. Lost about 4-5 MPH off his fastball in July. Has managed to get batters out exclusively featuring a 2 seamer and back up slider.

Politte: Lost a great deal of velocity in July as well. Was throwing 93-96 consisntatly. He's at about 90-91 MHP now but featuring a 2 seamer. Relies on his slider too much but has managed to get hitters out. Seems to really rise to the occasion in pressure situations.

Cotts: You're right on. Deceptive fastball that maxes out at 95. Throws more of a slider now. Used to throw a 12/6 curve more often. Has unreal movement on that fastball. Has more trouble with LH hitters as he doesn't like throwing his breaking stuff to them.

Vizcaino: Mop up. Almost exclusively a slider pitcher. He throws a hard one and takes something off. Can dominate with that slider when he throws his fastball.

Jenks: Usually gets ahead with a mid 90's fastball. Has 2 different curves. One is hard and tight. Takes something off and gets exceptional 12-6 drop. Occasionaly throws a slider as an out pitch in long AB's. Most talented arm the Sox have had in years.

Marte: Can't throw strikes. Still has velocity on his fastball. His "slurve" has no life. It's flat and he can't throw it for strikes. Relies on it as his outpitch even though it doesn't fool anyone anymore.

MRKARNO
10-23-2005, 06:17 PM
It looked to me like Contreras was tightening up because of the cold. No problem in the dome.

It also looked like he had a lot of command issues with his pitches. He was dropping down more often than not, and doing so with every type of pitch, where he normally would only drop down on the slider. He just did not have much from the looks of it and from AJ's post-game comments, but he managed 7 IP 3 ER anyways, mainly due to Captain Clutch.

DenverSock
10-24-2005, 04:21 AM
Sorry, not too familiar with the White Sox bull pen, how do they match up against us? Im pretty confident in our pen, it will be interesting to see if your BP's 2 wks off will have any efffect (I know they pitched a simulated game recently).:bandance:

Holy Toledo!
:dtroll::dtroll::dtroll::dtroll::dtroll:
After tonight I don't care about your bullpen.

LongLiveFisk
10-24-2005, 07:30 AM
I like them more and more with each passing day. :redneck

STROSFAN
10-24-2005, 08:45 AM
Dang our BP sux! hahahahah, j/k. I still think the weather played some part in our BP's lack luster performance. Something is wrong with Lidge's mechanics. Oh well, it will be hard for the Stros to win 4 out of the next 5, but we have been in each of these games. If we wouldnt have committed some of those errors early in the game, it may have been a different ending.

PeteWard
10-24-2005, 09:26 AM
Please don't call us "Y'all". We are from the North. The winning side. :wink: