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FanofBill
10-19-2005, 06:20 PM
when read.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jackson/051019

I can't help shedding a few tears reading this. Did you?

SOXintheBURGH
10-19-2005, 06:27 PM
I never liked Scoop all too much, but that was awesome.

elrod
10-19-2005, 07:12 PM
I thought it was a great article. There isn't really a single "point" to it, just as there never is with Scoop. His articles are a real stream of consciousness rant and sometimes I just can't get where he's going. But this was a beauty. The South Side of Chicago has experienced some real ugliness over the years: racial divisions, poverty, crime, riots, de facto segregation of the worst sort, the infamous rocks headed at MLK in '66, ethnic rivalry, exploited workers in the meatpacking plants (and not just in a Marxian sense of "exploited"), and then de-industrialization. But one thing all South Siders - whether Lithuanians in Marquette Park, blacks along State and 47th and in Englewood, academics in Hyde Park, Irish in Bridgeport, Mexicans in Pilsen and Little Village, Polish on Archer Avenue, Croatians in Back of the Yards, and the strivers - both white and black - in Beverly all can agree on is the White Sox. The South Side of Chicago is the Chicago of immigrants from Europe and Mexico, and migrants from Mississippi. It's the industrial core of 20th century America, and the commercial core of 19th century America. It is the Chicago of the humble common man. The Middle America without the prairie provincialism. The industrial sprawl with the neighborhood authenticity. It's the rare FDR coalition that survived Wallace and Nixon and Reagan. It's the character and brashness of the Daleys and Harold Washington and Bobby Rush. And it all has something to cheer about. Together. Go Sox!

kevingrt
10-19-2005, 07:19 PM
Something that only southside, White Sox fans can understand. Everyone else might think it's crap, but something that hits the heart and lets you shed a tear. God was that awesome!!!

Hondo
10-19-2005, 07:38 PM
That was awesome. Made me think about growing up in McKinley Park (35th and Damen).
So Scoop still lives in Chicago? Where abouts? Anyone know?

RedHeadPaleHoser
10-19-2005, 07:41 PM
Wow...goosebumps. Scoop, nice work. Stop being a tool everyday, and write like this all the time.

DrummerGeorgefan
10-19-2005, 07:45 PM
He spelled Cermak wrong [its not Cermack]...

Brewski
10-19-2005, 07:49 PM
Elrod,


That was eloquent. You wouldn't know anything about US History, would you? One reminder: don't forget the Bohemians.

Dan1972
10-19-2005, 08:10 PM
He spelled Cermak wrong [its not Cermack]...

I also didn't get his reference to the Dan Ryan once being Lake Michigan. I think he means Lake Shore Drive.

MarySwiss
10-19-2005, 08:15 PM
I also didn't get his reference to the Dan Ryan once being Lake Michigan. I think he means Lake Shore Drive.

As far as that goes, he referred to King Drive as having been formerly called "South Park Drive." IIRC, it was actually called "South Shore Drive."

Daver
10-19-2005, 08:19 PM
As far as that goes, he referred to King Drive as having been formerly called "South Park Drive." IIRC, it was actually called "South Shore Drive."

It was always called South Park drive in the Garfield Park neighborhood, over by the Rosenfeld Museum.

Daver
10-19-2005, 08:21 PM
I also didn't get his reference to the Dan Ryan once being Lake Michigan. I think he means Lake Shore Drive.

No, he is referring to trucks on the Ryan replacing Barges pushed up and down the lake to bring ore and finished product from the city to the south suburbs.

elrod
10-19-2005, 08:24 PM
Elrod,


That was eloquent. You wouldn't know anything about US History, would you? One reminder: don't forget the Bohemians.

I like to make stuff up. It's fun in class...

Yeah, I forgot a few ethnic groups. The Jews in Pill Hill, the Serbs in the far Southeast side, white Appalachian migrants in Hegewish. Some other South Side notables: the auto plants, the Pullman factory and "model" village, the steel mills, the canal, the freight yards, the concrete works, the Metra Electric and South Shore Line, Midway Airport, the International Amphiteatre, the Gilded Age elite on Prairie Avenue, the black WWI statue in Bronzeville, the Confederate prison and cemetery at Camp Douglas, Alligator Gardens on 138th street, the world's largest bridge for the smallest river (known as the Skyway), the Chicago Defender, Madame CJ Walker, Bobak's sausages, Dixie Highway, the site of the 1893 Columbian Exposition, the Darrow and Ida B. Wells homes, and the 111th street Irish. Add more to the list. What makes the South Side the South Side?

elrod
10-19-2005, 08:25 PM
As far as that goes, he referred to King Drive as having been formerly called "South Park Drive." IIRC, it was actually called "South Shore Drive."

I thought it was South Parkway, or South Park Boulevard.

MarySwiss
10-19-2005, 08:53 PM
I thought it was South Parkway, or South Park Boulevard.

Obviously, I need to get a life!

I actually researched this--and it kinda depends on what source you believe. One source said it was originally called South Park Avenue, another said it was called South Parkway, yet another said South Park Way, and one said that both South Park Avenue and South Park Way were renamed MLK Drive.

But since none of these supports my original contention that it was South Shore Drive--which apparently still exists--I formally retire from this thread, and will let the rest of you duke it out.

Daver
10-19-2005, 08:58 PM
Obviously, I need to get a life!

I actually researched this--and it kinda depends on what source you believe. One source said it was originally called South Park Avenue, another said it was called South Parkway, yet another said South Park Way, and one said that both South Park Avenue and South Park Way were renamed MLK Drive.

But since none of these supports my original contention that it was South Shore Drive--which apparently still exists--I formally retire from this thread, and will let the rest of you duke it out.

South Shore Drive starts around 8300 south IIRC, and runs down to 10300 South and then picks back up in Hegewisch. I am going strictly from memory, so this may be off a bit.

RealMenWearBlack
10-19-2005, 09:49 PM
I found this thread after reading the article, and I initially thought I was being too sensitive for shedding a few tears. It was a really touching article. I usually don't like Scoop Jackson's articles, but this was an amazing article.

hsnterprize
10-19-2005, 09:57 PM
Scoop's article was very touching. It made me think about part of the reason why I became a Sox fan in the first place.

I grew up in Broadview, which is a suburb about 12 miles west of the Loop. I wasn't raised on the "choose one team or the other" mentality, but when I was old enough to understand the concept, I leaned towards the Sox. Partially because my dad told me one night back in the early 80's he leaned more for the Sox than the Cubs, and also because everytime we visited relatives near 69th and St. Laurence, we would always pass by Old Comiskey Park. It was a thrill to see that place over and over again even though I'd only see one game inside the place.

I'm not a "native south sider", but I appreciate more of the south side work ethic rather than the hype and show the Cubs and their fans seem to embrace more often than not. I told a newspaper reporter at "Rally Monday" that Sox fans' love for the team was based on their work on the field, and not about the off-the-field hype that other team on the north side seems to rely on.

tebman
10-19-2005, 11:16 PM
Add more to the list. What makes the South Side the South Side?
The South Side isn't just in the city limits. Dolton, Burnham, Cal City, Hammond, East Chicago, Whiting -- all the people in those places who work for a living and put their hearts in the White Sox. Because at their best, the Sox work for a living too, and the South Side folks appreciate that. That's what Fox and ESPN and the Tribune bosses can't understand.

Jackson wrapped it up pretty well. That's why this is for all those hard-working folks who came before us that we honored in another thread. We feel this, and we feel it down deep.

A great sentiment in his article. I hope more people will understand it like we do.

Brewski
10-19-2005, 11:23 PM
South Park Way is correct. Before that MLK Drive was Grand Boulevard. Plus, the Lake Michigan reference is because South Lake Shore Drive is built on landfill which didn't originally exist, IMHO. It has nothing to do with the Ryan.

Unregistered
10-19-2005, 11:29 PM
See, my Pops was born in Chicago. On the South Side. Been there when Martin Luther King Drive was called South Park, when the Dan Ryan Expressway was Lake Michigan.
His call was about history.
Well then stop being such an ******* to your father's home team. Great writing, but hell, after 50 years it practically writes itself. Meanwhile, ever since "Scoop" was given a column he's done nothing but bash the Sox for EVERYTHING, ALWAYS taking whatever side was opposite the Sox - and never hesitating to get a dig in when he could. Now look who's in the World Series and who wants a piece of the action?

What's next, the Jay Mariotti "Jerry Reinsdorf is my real father" column?

DSpivack
10-19-2005, 11:41 PM
Great article from a guy who usually writes drivel.

I am not from the South Side--Evanston is far from it. Evanston, though, is divided racially, socioeconomically, culturally, etc. Our big high school rivals are New Trier, the rival north of us who are perceived as the bigger, richer, more well endowed foe. Funny thing is, the kids who seem most into the rival are from north Evanston, which is most similar to Wilmette, Winnetka, et al. I am from south Evanston, from a middle class neighborhood; my mom is a single parent CPS teacher. Across the street my neighbor owns a construction business, yet on either side of me are a NU prof and two lawyers.

My dad loved baseball, and leaned toward the Cubs, but was old enough to be sick of seeing both baseball teams lose. Once he moved to Springfield, IL, he became more of a Cards fan as he was sick of the Cubs organization.

So I became a Sox fan; I was never in tune to lovable losers, or to the Wrigleyville hype and the frat boy mentality. Not to mention Frank Thomas.

I don't really know where I am going with this. Just that's why I am a Sox fan.

CaptainBallz
10-19-2005, 11:43 PM
Great article and great comments--Thanks everybody.

SpringfldFan
10-20-2005, 10:34 AM
I have lived my whole life in central Illinois but as a lifelong Sox fan. I can only afford the time and money to make it to a game or two at the Cell each year now, but my wife scoured Ebay spending way more time and money then she probably should have and got me a ticket. After reading about the passion of the neighborhood, I feel somewhat sorry that its me who has a ticket - I really do.


SFF

DaleJRFan
10-20-2005, 10:47 AM
Reading this thread makes me feel like a wannabe Sox fan. I know nothing about the southside except for that both of my parents grew up there.

SoxFan76
10-20-2005, 10:48 AM
...I grew up in Broadview...

I basically spent my childhood in Westchester going to Grandma's every Sunday. Right by Roosevelt and Mannheim. That's pretty close.

FanofBill
10-20-2005, 10:50 AM
I have lived my whole life in central Illinois but as a lifelong Sox fan. I can only afford the time and money to make it to a game or two at the Cell each year now, but my wife scoured Ebay spending way more time and money then she probably should have and got me a ticket. After reading about the passion of the neighborhood, I feel somewhat sorry that its me who has a ticket - I really do.


SFF

Donít worry about it, I have a wife and four kids and I am the only one working and I canít afford to go to any White Sox game. Of course, I wish I could be there but hey thatís the hand I was dealt and so was yours.

Enjoy your world series, who knows what the future may hold.

DenverSock
10-20-2005, 10:57 AM
Donít worry about it, I have a wife and four kids and I am the only one working and I canít afford to go to any White Sox game. Of course, I wish I could be there but hey thatís the hand I was dealt and so was yours.

Enjoy your world series, who knows what the future may hold.


I agree, enjoy your World Series. I couldn't get tickets and will be watching at home. Lift a beer in the stands for me and remember that there exist Sox Fans who don't live in Chicago or Illinois. Some have left. A lot, like me, became Sox Fans when attending the U of C. We all love our Sox and have waited through thick and thin for this day. Not all of us are there. But remember us as you cheer. If there is one thing you could do for me, it's Chant: "Na-na-na-na-hey-hey.........." for me when the Sox are going good. :supernana:

PennStater98r
10-20-2005, 11:16 AM
The South Side might finally get one before Chicago does.


What does this mean anyway?

24thStFan
10-20-2005, 11:17 AM
That was awesome. Made me think about growing up in McKinley Park (35th and Damen).
So Scoop still lives in Chicago? Where abouts? Anyone know?

Hondo
I grew up on 24th and Western. Rode my bike to play baseball in McKinley park all the time. It was the only "green space" for miles around and had real diamonds with backstops. I love McKinley Park!

The article was great and brings back lots of South Side memories.

Sox&Springsteen
10-20-2005, 11:20 AM
I have lived my whole life in central Illinois but as a lifelong Sox fan. I can only afford the time and money to make it to a game or two at the Cell each year now, but my wife scoured Ebay spending way more time and money then she probably should have and got me a ticket. After reading about the passion of the neighborhood, I feel somewhat sorry that its me who has a ticket - I really do.


SFF

Sox fans who grew up outside Chicago are to be treasured, unlike Chicagoans such as John "Clueless" Cusack who have suddenly got religion over this team.

This native Chicagoan and life-long Sox fan is delighted that you will be going. This postseason is for all Sox fans everywhere to share.

Uncle_Patrick
10-20-2005, 11:25 AM
Reading this thread makes me feel like a wannabe Sox fan. I know nothing about the southside except for that both of my parents grew up there.

Don't worry. I grew up in the Northwest Suburbs but was always a diehard Sox fan (my mom's family is from the South Side). There is more to being a Sox fan than geography.

Bucky F. Dent
10-20-2005, 11:27 AM
Just finished it, great piece!

24thStFan
10-20-2005, 11:28 AM
I like to make stuff up. It's fun in class...

Yeah, I forgot a few ethnic groups...Add more to the list. What makes the South Side the South Side?

Don't forget the Italian neighborhood between 26th Street (Blue Island Ave.) and 23rd Street and between Western and Leavitt. Good people and great Northern Italian restaurants!

billcissell
10-20-2005, 11:55 AM
Good article by Jackson. South Siders in particular can really savor what is going on right now.

Of course, Sox fans are everywhere. I'm delighted because when you really look at the history of this team, here is one shining moment after many years of suffering, disappointment, second-rate status, etc.

Here's a franchise that, for one reason or another, someone was always trying to move somewhere else, be it Milwaukee, Seattle, St. Petersburg, Denver. A franchise that just has never received much recognition and respect. We've played second fiddle to the team up north since the mid-60s.

No one ever menions the history of this team without bringing up the Black Sox scandal, Disco Demolition and second-rate status to the lovable losers across town. So many years of mediocre and poor teams. Questionable decisions by management. Veeck trying to patch together the old Baseball Palace of the World with duct tape in the late 70s. Remember the poor drainage system in the outfield? Huge puddles after a big rain. Veeck holding concerts in the mid-70s to scratch up some money to keep it going. I remember a fire in the upper deck on a hot summer day and all the concert goers pouring onto the field.

I was born on the South Side of town. Like my father, I lived and died for the White Sox back in the day when they always seemed to be the second best team in the American League (the hated Yankees were usually just a little better). Our family pulled out of the neighborhood in '63 and headed to the northern suburbs. You can take the kid out of the South Side, but you can't take the South Side out of the kid...

I discovered that there were Sox fans up there. Loyal and devoted fans, although we were a distinct minority. We watched the Sox get treated like the red-headed stepchild on WGN and end up on a UHF station. Home games in Milwaukee when Selig (then a car dealer) tried in vain to steal the Sox. The low point of 1970, when the team was terrible and the franchise was in shambles.

Yes, this all has special meaning for South Siders. But it also means a great deal to Sox fans in general, retirees in Florida or Arizona, former Chicagoans who headed out west or down south or wherever.

Sox fans are everywhere. It's a state of mind, I guess. And now they are going for the ultimate prize. I wasn't sure I would ever see this in my lifetime, so it still hasn't quite sunk in yet.

The White Sox in 6.

Sox&Springsteen
10-20-2005, 12:13 PM
Don't worry. I grew up in the Northwest Suburbs but was always a diehard Sox fan (my mom's family is from the South Side). There is more to being a Sox fan than geography.

I, too, grew up an alien in suburban Cubs and Bears country. My dad was from the South Side. Historian Lawrence J. McCaffrey, who has written about patterns of Irish emigration to Chicago, once described the movement of upwardly mobile first-generation Irish Americans from the emigrant enclaves of neighborhoods like those once found on the South Side to the suburbs as "A journey from somewhere to nowhere." The same principle can be applied I think to all ethnic groups, not just the Irish.

For children of South Siders, being raised as a White Sox fan is part of an attempt to preserve a distinct way of life--some of which has vanished, but bits of which have been preserved. The White Sox are central to that cultural identity.

I remember wheny my dad learned that one of his childhood friends, who had moved to the Northern Chicago suburbs, was raising his only son as a Cub fan. My dad was disgusted about this and told this man so. A bit sad to think this kid (who is now an adult) because he was raised as a Cub fan, cannot share in the happiness and pride we are all feeling and which should have been his inheritance.

akingamongstmen
10-20-2005, 02:21 PM
Wonderful thread, everybody. I love what the South Side represents. I'm proud that my roots are there in the Polish neighborhoods on Archer. My grandparents were factory workers. My Polish immigrant grandpa worked in the stockyards. I grew up eating my grandparents' Polish cooking. I'm lucky to have grown up in the greatest part of the greatest city in the world. The South Side is all about good people leading honest lives. It doesn't get any better than that.

Fortunately, I'm heading home tomorrow night so that I can watch our boys play in the Series with my family. I might even swing by Bobak's while I'm in town...

MeteorsSox4367
10-20-2005, 02:42 PM
Like akingamongstmen wrote in his post, there's something to be said for growing up Polish on the South Side on Archer. When my West Side Irish Dad (and Sox fan) jokes about having to live on the South Side, I always remind him that he was the one who married the South Side Polish girl from Brighton Park.

Growing up in Brighton Park just one 15-minute ride down Archer and then 39th Street from Comiskey was something I'll always cherish.

Go Sox!!