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Fenway
10-17-2005, 09:33 AM
VOICE OF THE PEOPLE (LETTER)

Difference between North and South Sides

Thomas Condon
Published October 14, 2005


Chicago -- Can everyone please stop all this nonsense about the White Sox being cursed? Lately pundits and sports writers have been trying to conjure up some kind of curse to explain the White Sox not winning the World Series for 88 years.

Get this straight once and for all: There is no White Sox curse.

I think all this curse nonsense started because so many sports writers are so accustomed to writing about the Cubs and their problems with curses, and misbehaving fans, and anything else they can blame their bumbling performance on.

On the North Side, it has always been "boo-hoo, that mean billy goat won't let us win the World Series . . . it's not our fault, we're cursed . . . wahhhhhh!"

What a bunch of babies.

On the South Side, we don't need to hide behind a curse. We take our lumps, make no excuses, claim no curses and show up and root for our team, win or lose.

This is an essential part of the difference between the North Side and the South Side. The North Side is home to the more "tender" Chicagoans, those latte-swilling, status-car-driving dandies who think that Lincoln Park is a tough neighborhood. Many are just enjoying their "urban experience" for a few years before moving back to Schaumburg and buying the inevitable minivan.

The South Side is where the real meat of Chicago resides. These are the people and neighborhoods who built America with steel mills, won World War II with manufacturing and continue to supply the real muscle for Chicago's economic engine.

And we aren't moving to Schaumburg. Ever.

The South Side has always been tougher, and always comes out on top. Want an example? Remember what happened on St. Valentine's Day in 1929? That was a little dispute between Al Capone's South Siders and Bugs Moran's North Side gang. Guess who won? That's right, the South Side.

So take that curse baloney and stuff it. We've been here through all the tough times, and stood by the White Sox without whining about a curse. So what if we haven't won the World Series in a long time--you got a problem with that?

samram
10-17-2005, 09:39 AM
Other than the stuff about the curses, which is correct, that's a stupid letter.

Fenway
10-17-2005, 09:46 AM
It must have killed them to run this editorial Monday



A World Series City!

Published October 17, 2005


Was that an air raid siren you heard last night? More likely it was a collective scream from the Chicago baseball universe as decades of frustration gave way to incredible glee. The Chicago White Sox are the champions of the American League.

The World Series is coming to Chicago.

Yes, think about that. This is a world-class city, but the World Series is something we've gotten used to watching from afar. Year after year they play it in the Big Apple, or Atlanta or San Francisco or Miami or Cleveland or, gasp, St. Louis or ... well, there isn't enough room to list all the cities that have had the World Series since Chicago last had the World Series.

The last time? That would be 46 years ago, when the Sox lost to the L.A. Dodgers.

Which makes the reality of a World Series--in Chicago--all the more amazing to those who have dreamed about it for so long. Now Sox fans have a little time to enjoy fretting about who comes next: Would Houston and Clemens be tougher than St. Louis and LaRussa? The Astros and the Cardinals will have to sort that out, and let them spend a lot of energy doing it. We'll relax and enjoy letting it roll off the tongue: the American League Champion Chicago White Sox.

The success of the Sox this year speaks volumes about why baseball is such an enjoyable game, even when it packs 46 years of frustration.

Go figure. Sox pitcher Orlando Hernandez was so ineffective in the final weeks of the regular season that it was iffy whether he would even make the playoff roster. He did, and pitched brilliantly in relief in the first playoff round.

Starter Jose Contreras flat out stunk in the first half of the season, then pulled himself together and is now considered the staff ace.

Catcher A.J. Pierzynski had a rep as a troublemaker when he played for the San Francisco Giants last year. But his aggressiveness and savvy have been a perfect fit for the Sox. His heads-up decision to run out a controversial third strike was the turning point in a come-from-behind series win over the Angels.

There isn't a native Chicagoan on the Sox. Yet this is a team of spirit, determination and diversity that reflects its city. A century ago the Cubs had a poetic-sounding double play combination of Tinker to Evers to Chance. Today's Sox have Uribe to Iguchi to Konerko. It doesn't roll off the tongue, but it sure sounds like the Chicago of today. Congratulations to the White Sox, who have made Chicago a World Series city.





Copyright 2005, Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-0510170164oct17,0,412768.story?coll=chi-newsopinion-hed

Ol' No. 2
10-17-2005, 09:57 AM
Did they publish a Tribune today? Mine still hasn't been delivered. I figured Mary Ann Lipinski and her flying monkeys were still trying to figure out how to spin it.

Harry Chappas
10-17-2005, 09:59 AM
Other than the stuff about the curses, which is correct, that's a stupid letter.

I have to agree with Samram on this one. You've managed to cover just about every Sox fan stereotype in a page. My Dad never worked in a steel mill, grew up in Munster, Indiana, emigrated to the north side of Chicago in the 60s after college, worked for the Cubune in ad sales before getting a job at Leo Burnett, and then migrated north to Arlington Heights, where I was raised. For my part, I live in Logan Square, enjoy nice cars, and don't work a blue collar job.

My Dad and I are as devoted to the Sox as anyone on this board. It has nothing to do with geography or economics.

Pasqua's Posers
10-17-2005, 10:22 AM
Other than the stuff about the curses, which is correct, that's a stupid letter.

Why?

Settembrini
10-17-2005, 10:31 AM
Why?

Well, let's see. It claims the south side "won World War II" and "built America," it labels everyone on the north side of Chicago as "dandies," and it says that Sox fans show up for their team win or lose, when it actually is the Cub fans who have the blind allegiance. And, last but not least, the letter-writer's ultimate south side argument is based on a gang shooting.

SweetnesSox
10-17-2005, 10:35 AM
Other than the stuff about the curses, which is correct, that's a stupid letter.
I thought it was cute. we all need to just let people say their opinion in these threads, and if their opinion is stupid, then move onto a new thread. nice letter fen.

samram
10-17-2005, 10:35 AM
Why?

See Harry Chappas's post. I love the Sox as much as anyone, but I don't live in a south side bungalow or work in a mill. I live in one of the nicest areas in Charlotte, I like going to nice restaurants and drinking wine and I drive a foreign car. The only way I see myself as being different from Cubs' fans is in our views regarding historically poor performance. All this other steretyping is just crap. As Harry Chappas said, it has nothing to do with geography or economics.

shoota II
10-17-2005, 10:36 AM
I have to agree with Samram on this one. You've managed to cover just about every Sox fan stereotype in a page. My Dad never worked in a steel mill, grew up in Munster, Indiana, emigrated to the north side of Chicago in the 60s after college, worked for the Cubune in ad sales before getting a job at Leo Burnett, and then migrated north to Arlington Heights, where I was raised. For my part, I live in Logan Square, enjoy nice cars, and don't work a blue collar job.

My Dad and I are as devoted to the Sox as anyone on this board. It has nothing to do with geography or economics.

How's your minivan running?

shoota II
10-17-2005, 10:38 AM
See Harry Chappas's post. I love the Sox as much as anyone, but I don't live in a south side bungalow or work in a mill. I live in one of the nicest areas in Charlotte, I like going to nice restaurants and drinking wine and I drive a foreign car. The only way I see myself as being different from Cubs' fans is in our views regarding historically poor performance. All this other steretyping is just crap. As Harry Chappas said, it has nothing to do with geography or economics.

How is Charlotte this time of year? Do you miss Schaumburg?

harwar
10-17-2005, 10:38 AM
Not even this stuff can annoyme today:)

Pasqua's Posers
10-17-2005, 10:41 AM
Well, let's see. It claims the south side "won World War II" and "built America," it labels everyone on the north side of Chicago as "dandies," and it says that Sox fans show up for their team win or lose, when it actually is the Cub fans who have the blind allegiance. And, last but not least, the letter-writer's ultimate south side argument is based on a gang shooting.

gotcha...

Kittle'sNeighbor
10-17-2005, 10:55 AM
You are more likely to find a factory worker on the Southside and a CEO on the Northside. Bottom line.

Harry Chappas
10-17-2005, 11:06 AM
How's your minivan running?

Great. How's your rusted-out Impala running?:rolleyes:

jenn2080
10-17-2005, 11:15 AM
So by no means to I like the Trib. I hate that paper. However while looking for pics I clicked on a link via Google which led me to the Trib. I read this article which made me sick. I am from the South Side and this article made me feel for about 2 seconds(my excitement is too strong to be mad for longer then 2 sec) like the South Side is a third world country. I really didnt want to post this just because we are celebrating an amazing thing, but this goes to show you how ignorant people to some things.

So here is the article and then the email I sent to this moron.

If you live on the South Side, you watch the 10 p.m. news and cringe every time the bad news emanates from your side of the city.

If you live on the North Side, you don't fret too much about crime defining your area of town.

If you live on the South Side, you listen to traffic reports and expect to hear the travel times on the southern expressways last.

If you live on the North Side, you expect traffic jams (and parking to be nearly impossible) throughout the area so there's less of a need for up-to-the-minute travel updates.

If you live on the South Side, you would do a dance if a Starbucks, Pottery Barn, Whole Foods or Borders moved into your neighborhood.

If you live on the North Side, such dances are unnecessary because trendy stores are a dime a dozen, and if one moves out, you expect several others to compete for its space.

If you live on the South Side, you're aware that some neighborhoods are lucky to have an ordinary grocery that sells fresh fruit and veggies, let alone some specialty groceries offering foie gras and sushi bars.

If you live on the North Side, you expect foie gras-type foods and sushi bars to abound.

If you live on the South Side, you're accustomed to transacting business at mom-and-pop shops behind bulletproof glass and visiting banks with extra-tight security.

If you live on the North Side, you know there are many establishments with bulletproof glass and iron bars, but the perception is that such security may be a tad more optional.

If you live on the South Side, you've probably grown tired of informing your North Side friends of the many lovely, treelined neighborhoods that are not populated by gangbangers and drug dealers.

If you live on the North Side, you probably think that Hyde Park and its University of Chicago campus is the South Side's lone neighborhood that's treelined, upscale and not overpopulated by gangbangers and drug dealers.

If you live on the South Side, you're less inclined to feel like a foreigner in a faraway land when you're dining, picnicking, or going to a theater or museum up North.

If you live on the North Side, you may travel south for the 57th Street bookstores, the 43rd Street blues haunts and the area museums, but for the most part, you can find said fare up North, so what's the point?

If you live on the South Side, you probably have neighbors who are White Sox fans and old enough to recall when the pungent smell of the stockyards would waft through the stands during games.

If you live on the North Side, you may have neighbors who remember the stockyards, but when was the last time they stood within a few miles of Back of the Yards?

If you live on the South Side, you can find an old-timer who recalls the bulbous blue taxicabs, called jitneys, that took passengers up and down King Drive for 25 cents a ride and sometimes would veer off down 35th Street toward Comiskey Park.

If you live on the North Side, there were few jitneys and no street called King Drive. And trying to imagine a Comiskey up North just doesn't fit right in the imagination.

If you live on the South Side, you notice that the fans who attend White Sox games seem to be much more diverse and reflective of Chicago, than are the fans at Wrigley Field.

If you live on the South Side, you don't blame your baseball team's miscues and mistakes on bad luck and curses that include goats.

If you live on the South Side, you've grown accustomed to you and your team being perceived, at best, as second class.

And despite all that's fractured on the South Side, right now everybody is feeling kind of pieced together and on top. No matter how rough the edges.

If you live on the South Side, you don't depend on baseball for your good mental health and eternal happiness.

You understand that not even the kiss of a cylindrical block of wood against a spherical, tightly wound wad of yarn can provide that.

Still, you're just thrilled knowing this may be the year that your White Sox head to the World Series and bring the gold back to, where?

The South Side.


*********************************************

Here is my reply.

This was a class article...I definately see an award for this. If you think this is what the South Side is about you are one sadly mistaken person. However I did dance around the streets when the South Side got their first Starbucks. I mean that was one of the best days of my life.

"If you live on the South Side, you're aware that some neighborhoods are lucky to have an ordinary grocery that sells fresh fruit and veggies, let alone some specialty groceries offering foie gras and sushi bars."

And thankfully I live on the Northside now so I dont have to travel there to buy my celery and apples.

Again brilliant article. Definately talks about the White Sox win and what this doing for Chicago. You do realize that the South Side is part of the city of Chicago, don't you?

PaulDrake
10-17-2005, 11:32 AM
See Harry Chappas's post. I love the Sox as much as anyone, but I don't live in a south side bungalow or work in a mill. I live in one of the nicest areas in Charlotte, I like going to nice restaurants and drinking wine and I drive a foreign car. The only way I see myself as being different from Cubs' fans is in our views regarding historically poor performance. All this other steretyping is just crap. As Harry Chappas said, it has nothing to do with geography or economics. I was born in Appalachia (north of the Mason-Dixon line but still Appalachia), raised in Chicago in several N and NW side neighborhoods in the go go era. I lived for a time in Uptown, which was as tough a neighborhood as they come back in the day. Many of my classmates and pals were Sox fans in the 50s and 60s. It was decidedly a Sox town in that long ago era. I've taken many lumps in life, on this board and as a Sox fan. I feel more than gratified today. I had three mini emergencies this morning and I just didn't let it bother me that much. My White Sox won the damn pennant!

kittle42
10-17-2005, 12:11 PM
You are more likely to find a factory worker on the Southside and a CEO on the Northside. Bottom line.

And this thread continues its downward slide...

Risk
10-17-2005, 12:26 PM
Other than the stuff about the curses, which is correct, that's a stupid letter.

Yeah. I agree. The writer had me rolling my eyes when he talked about the St. Valentine's Day Massacre and the Prohibition era gang wars as something to have pride in. Totally stupid.

Risk

steff
10-17-2005, 12:29 PM
You are more likely to find a factory worker on the Southside and a CEO on the Northside. Bottom line.


And apparently.. more idiots on WSI this morning.

williefan22
10-17-2005, 12:41 PM
I live in downtown Chicago but I guess you could say thats the North Side. Im still a die hard sox fan who has watched every single game this year even now when I'm at school in upstate NY. We sox fans have to realize that everyone on this site is most likely an above average sox fan. There is no need for us to be arguing about if we drive mini vans b/c we're from the burbs or the types of stores that may or may not come to the south side. We should be celebrating the fact that our sox have just won the pennant. Last night I celebrated the Sox pennant by myself, as there is not one other sox fan at my school. Even if someone was from Oregon and they were a true Sox fan there should be nothing wrong with that. I would have loved to have been able to come home and celebrate with South Siders, North Siders and yes even the suburbanites. There is no need for us sox fans to be bashing each other if we're from the north side or the suburbs. Lets just root for our sox... very deep, i know

kittle42
10-17-2005, 01:20 PM
I live in downtown Chicago but I guess you could say thats the North Side. Im still a die hard sox fan who has watched every single game this year even now when I'm at school in upstate NY. We sox fans have to realize that everyone on this site is most likely an above average sox fan. There is no need for us to be arguing about if we drive mini vans b/c we're from the burbs or the types of stores that may or may not come to the south side. We should be celebrating the fact that our sox have just won the pennant. Last night I celebrated the Sox pennant by myself, as there is not one other sox fan at my school. Even if someone was from Oregon and they were a true Sox fan there should be nothing wrong with that. I would have loved to have been able to come home and celebrate with South Siders, North Siders and yes even the suburbanites. There is no need for us sox fans to be bashing each other if we're from the north side or the suburbs. Lets just root for our sox... very deep, i know

I agree. I live on the north side and my only argument is whether you like your latte whip or no-whip. Also, keep me away from those nasty steelworkers and take me back to CEO heaven!

Sad
10-17-2005, 01:31 PM
I miss my '78 Camaro...:whiner:

silhouette
10-17-2005, 03:39 PM
So by no means to I like the Trib. I hate that paper. However while looking for pics I clicked on a link via Google which led me to the Trib. I read this article which made me sick. I am from the South Side and this article made me feel for about 2 seconds(my excitement is too strong to be mad for longer then 2 sec) like the South Side is a third world country. I really didnt want to post this just because we are celebrating an amazing thing, but this goes to show you how ignorant people to some things.

So here is the article and then the email I sent to this moron.

If you live on the South Side, you watch the 10 p.m. news and cringe every time the bad news emanates from your side of the city.

If you live on the North Side, you don't fret too much about crime defining your area of town.

If you live on the South Side, you listen to traffic reports and expect to hear the travel times on the southern expressways last.

If you live on the North Side, you expect traffic jams (and parking to be nearly impossible) throughout the area so there's less of a need for up-to-the-minute travel updates.

If you live on the South Side, you would do a dance if a Starbucks, Pottery Barn, Whole Foods or Borders moved into your neighborhood.

If you live on the North Side, such dances are unnecessary because trendy stores are a dime a dozen, and if one moves out, you expect several others to compete for its space.

If you live on the South Side, you're aware that some neighborhoods are lucky to have an ordinary grocery that sells fresh fruit and veggies, let alone some specialty groceries offering foie gras and sushi bars.

If you live on the North Side, you expect foie gras-type foods and sushi bars to abound.

If you live on the South Side, you're accustomed to transacting business at mom-and-pop shops behind bulletproof glass and visiting banks with extra-tight security.

If you live on the North Side, you know there are many establishments with bulletproof glass and iron bars, but the perception is that such security may be a tad more optional.

If you live on the South Side, you've probably grown tired of informing your North Side friends of the many lovely, treelined neighborhoods that are not populated by gangbangers and drug dealers.

If you live on the North Side, you probably think that Hyde Park and its University of Chicago campus is the South Side's lone neighborhood that's treelined, upscale and not overpopulated by gangbangers and drug dealers.

If you live on the South Side, you're less inclined to feel like a foreigner in a faraway land when you're dining, picnicking, or going to a theater or museum up North.

If you live on the North Side, you may travel south for the 57th Street bookstores, the 43rd Street blues haunts and the area museums, but for the most part, you can find said fare up North, so what's the point?

If you live on the South Side, you probably have neighbors who are White Sox fans and old enough to recall when the pungent smell of the stockyards would waft through the stands during games.

If you live on the North Side, you may have neighbors who remember the stockyards, but when was the last time they stood within a few miles of Back of the Yards?

If you live on the South Side, you can find an old-timer who recalls the bulbous blue taxicabs, called jitneys, that took passengers up and down King Drive for 25 cents a ride and sometimes would veer off down 35th Street toward Comiskey Park.

If you live on the North Side, there were few jitneys and no street called King Drive. And trying to imagine a Comiskey up North just doesn't fit right in the imagination.

If you live on the South Side, you notice that the fans who attend White Sox games seem to be much more diverse and reflective of Chicago, than are the fans at Wrigley Field.

If you live on the South Side, you don't blame your baseball team's miscues and mistakes on bad luck and curses that include goats.

If you live on the South Side, you've grown accustomed to you and your team being perceived, at best, as second class.

And despite all that's fractured on the South Side, right now everybody is feeling kind of pieced together and on top. No matter how rough the edges.

If you live on the South Side, you don't depend on baseball for your good mental health and eternal happiness.

You understand that not even the kiss of a cylindrical block of wood against a spherical, tightly wound wad of yarn can provide that.

Still, you're just thrilled knowing this may be the year that your White Sox head to the World Series and bring the gold back to, where?

The South Side.


*********************************************

Here is my reply.

This was a class article...I definately see an award for this. If you think this is what the South Side is about you are one sadly mistaken person. However I did dance around the streets when the South Side got their first Starbucks. I mean that was one of the best days of my life.

"If you live on the South Side, you're aware that some neighborhoods are lucky to have an ordinary grocery that sells fresh fruit and veggies, let alone some specialty groceries offering foie gras and sushi bars."

And thankfully I live on the Northside now so I dont have to travel there to buy my celery and apples.

Again brilliant article. Definately talks about the White Sox win and what this doing for Chicago. You do realize that the South Side is part of the city of Chicago, don't you?

That was a very good article. I especially like this part:

If you live on the North Side, you probably think that Hyde Park and its University of Chicago campus is the South Side's lone neighborhood that's treelined, upscale and not overpopulated by gangbangers and drug dealers.

(being from Hyde Park myself and growing up there at the time when it wasn't a safe place to be). I do live in the suburbs and I do own a minivan (because I have two kids plus me and my wife do take them to soccer and basketball practices) and I used to shop at Whole Foods (before I found out that they weren't union-friendly) but I am still a White Sox fan and I still remember where I came from and I still give back to the low-income community.