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KempersRS
12-12-2001, 03:53 PM
Ok, a lot of trade talk in the air, let's go over some of it.

Brian Giles
Are you kidding me? There is just no reason to acquire Giles, and I've been hearing a couple pitching prospects to get him. I know Kenny likes avoid filling holes and just stack us where we don't need someone, but this is a joke. Our pitching is already suspect, so lets deal some of it away to strengthen an outfield that is already fairly strong? I'm not even sure I would do Lee for Giles straight up, Lee has plenty of years ahead of himself. Go ahead Kenny, pull the trigger on this one and you can add another to your wall of shame.

Darrin Erstad
Are you kidding me? See above.

Kevin Millwood
Are you kidding me? (There is a motif here if you hadn't noticed) All we have to go by this year is pitchers with arm trouble, why add another? I don't care who you give up, its not worth it to grab that salary and an injury waiting to happen. It sounds like David Wells all over again.

Paulwny
12-12-2001, 03:56 PM
You're the voice of sanity.

NUCatsFan
12-12-2001, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
<snip snip snip>
It sounds like David Wells all over again.

I, for one, STILL like that David Wells trade. Without him, I think you can forget about Buehrle being even half the pitcher he was this year. 5 wins at best, with a 5.5+ ERA.

dougs78
12-12-2001, 04:01 PM
I'm not even sure I would do Lee for Giles straight up, Lee has plenty of years ahead of himself. Go ahead Kenny, pull the trigger on this one and you can add another to your wall of shame.


What? I think you are the one who is kidding me. Brian Giles is a damn good player and better in all facets of his game than Carlos is. And its not like hes an old man. If it takes a few pitching prospects I'll pull the trigger in a heartbeat depending on who it is.

Kilroy
12-12-2001, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by NUCatsFan


I, for one, STILL like that David Wells trade. Without him, I think you can forget about Buehrle being even half the pitcher he was this year. 5 wins at best, with a 5.5+ ERA.

I liked the Wells trade also. That it turned into a flaming disaster was something no one could have forseen.

But I think that David Wells influence on Buehrle has been overblown. Mark already had the talent. Too much credit for his success is given to Wells.

Paulwny
12-12-2001, 04:06 PM
Trading Lee will end up the same as when we traded Bonilla to the pirates and then watched him put up big numbers.

Jerry_Manuel
12-12-2001, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by KempersRS
Ok, a lot of trade talk in the air, let's go over some of it.

Brian Giles
Are you kidding me? There is just no reason to acquire Giles, and I've been hearing a couple pitching prospects to get him. I know Kenny likes avoid filling holes and just stack us where we don't need someone, but this is a joke. Our pitching is already suspect, so lets deal some of it away to strengthen an outfield that is already fairly strong? I'm not even sure I would do Lee for Giles straight up, Lee has plenty of years ahead of himself. Go ahead Kenny, pull the trigger on this one and you can add another to your wall of shame.

Darrin Erstad
Are you kidding me? See above.


I'll agree with you on Millwood. The rumor is they want Buehrle/Lee for Giles/Ritchie, I would jump at the chance to get a big left handed bat like Giles here but not for Buehrle. The outfield is weak in center. I'd take Giles/Erstad anytime over Rowand/Singleton. If they could get Erstad for a reasonable price I'd make the deal. We need a real lead off hitter. Kempers I think you would have to agree that getting Erstad would fill 2 holes at once, upgrade in center and lead off hitter.

rdivaldi
12-12-2001, 04:09 PM
Kempers you must be out of your mind...

There is just no reason to acquire Giles, and I've been hearing a couple pitching prospects to get him. I'm not even sure I would do Lee for Giles straight up, Lee has plenty of years ahead of himself.

Yeah, there's no reason to get a guy who hits over .300, has an OBP consistently over .400, hits for power, plays decent defense, and is signed through 2005 at a bargain basement price.

Giles for Lee straight up? And you wouldn't do it? This is why fans don't become GMs.

I know Kenny likes avoid filling holes and just stack us where we don't need someone, but this is a joke.

Yeah, I'd hate to replace a slightly above average player with an all star. What is Kenny thinking?

Our pitching is already suspect, so lets deal some of it away to strengthen an outfield that is already fairly strong?

Trading away a couple of our many A+ prospects will not kill us. It's risky, but to acquire a guy of Giles' caliber you have to do it.

Go ahead Kenny, pull the trigger on this one and you can add another to your wall of shame.

More like adding a crown jewel to a good team.

Jerry_Manuel
12-12-2001, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Trading Lee will end up the same as when we traded Bonilla to the pirates and then watched him put up big numbers.

That very well may be the case but Giles would put some big numbers up here to. It's a tough decision to make, if the rumors are even true.

Bmr31
12-12-2001, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
Kempers you must be out of your mind...

There is just no reason to acquire Giles, and I've been hearing a couple pitching prospects to get him. I'm not even sure I would do Lee for Giles straight up, Lee has plenty of years ahead of himself.

Yeah, there's no reason to get a guy who hits over .300, has an OBP consistently over .400, hits for power, plays decent defense, and is signed through 2005 at a bargain basement price.

Giles for Lee straight up? And you wouldn't do it? This is why fans don't become GMs.

I know Kenny likes avoid filling holes and just stack us where we don't need someone, but this is a joke.

Yeah, I'd hate to replace a slightly above average player with an all star. What is Kenny thinking?

Our pitching is already suspect, so lets deal some of it away to strengthen an outfield that is already fairly strong?

Trading away a couple of our many A+ prospects will not kill us. It's risky, but to acquire a guy of Giles' caliber you have to do it.

Go ahead Kenny, pull the trigger on this one and you can add another to your wall of shame.

More like adding a crown jewel to a good team.

Your opinions are welcomed. However, the majority of us do not agree with those opinions, including me. Giles is SLIGHTLY better than lee at this point. You have no idea how good lee will or will not become.

Jerry_Manuel
12-12-2001, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31
Your opinions are welcomed. However, the majority of us do not agree with those opinions, including me. Giles is SLIGHTLY better than lee at this point. You have no idea how good lee will or will not become.

Couldn't the same be said for Giles? In the sense that he could get better as well?

rdivaldi
12-12-2001, 04:27 PM
Slightly better? I can't agree with you bmr. Giles is way beyond Carlos at this time. Look at the numbers, the production is tipped to Giles' favor big time, and that was playing with a crummy Pirates team. You could only imagine how well he would perform with Maggs, Frank, PK, etc. protecting him in the lineup.

2001
Giles
.309 avg, .404 obp, .590 slg, .994 ops, 37 hr, 95 rbi

Lee
.269 avg, .321 obp, .468 slg, .789 ops, 24 hr, 84 rbi

It's not even close. Even if you take Lee's best numbers, Giles still wipes him off the board.

Soxboyrob
12-12-2001, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


Your opinions are welcomed. However, the majority of us do not agree with those opinions, including me. Giles is SLIGHTLY better than lee at this point. You have no idea how good lee will or will not become.

We also don't know how good Giles will or will not become. For now, Giles is CLEARLY better than Lee. For one, Lee is nearly the worst damn defensive LF'er I've seen in my lifetime. He's on a par w/ Kittle and Luzinski. Offensively, Lee's never seen a pitch he didn't want to swing at. In the end, it's all a gamble. I'll settle for Giles in a heartbeat over Lee. Giles is better than Lee in pretty much all aspects of the game. I think that makes him more than "slightly" better.

Soxboyrob
12-12-2001, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
Slightly better?
It's not even close. Even if you take Lee's best numbers, Giles still wipes him off the board.

That's not to even mention the defense. Lee has a hole in his glove the size of Texas and the throwing arm of a girl.

KempersRS
12-12-2001, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by dougs78



What? I think you are the one who is kidding me. Brian Giles is a damn good player and better in all facets of his game than Carlos is. And its not like hes an old man. If it takes a few pitching prospects I'll pull the trigger in a heartbeat depending on who it is.

Depending on who it is...thats kind of important. We are talking about Rauch or Buehrle would have to be one of them. I wouldn't even think about it. This team can't decide if they want to rebuild or be a contender. Oh yeah, Joe Borchard still exists. We have to give some of these younger guys a chance! Look what happened to Crede, never even got a chance and now he is starting to rot away. I would never pull a deal like this until Borchard proves to me he is a bust.

KempersRS
12-12-2001, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by rdivaldi
Kempers you must be out of your mind...

There is just no reason to acquire Giles, and I've been hearing a couple pitching prospects to get him. I'm not even sure I would do Lee for Giles straight up, Lee has plenty of years ahead of himself.

Yeah, there's no reason to get a guy who hits over .300, has an OBP consistently over .400, hits for power, plays decent defense, and is signed through 2005 at a bargain basement price.

Giles for Lee straight up? And you wouldn't do it? This is why fans don't become GMs.

I know Kenny likes avoid filling holes and just stack us where we don't need someone, but this is a joke.

Yeah, I'd hate to replace a slightly above average player with an all star. What is Kenny thinking?

Our pitching is already suspect, so lets deal some of it away to strengthen an outfield that is already fairly strong?

Trading away a couple of our many A+ prospects will not kill us. It's risky, but to acquire a guy of Giles' caliber you have to do it.

Go ahead Kenny, pull the trigger on this one and you can add another to your wall of shame.

More like adding a crown jewel to a good team.

Ugh, your last point... No way Giles is a crown jewel to this team. You trade away pitching to get him, and you have no team at all. Didn't the Texas Rangers prove anything last season? It's about spending our money on weaknesses. I'm tired of upgrading our only strengths, this team will go no where without a 3rd baseman, shortstop, catcher, and an entire pitching staff. Giles can't save this team, thus he is a waste of our time and money.