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View Full Version : Garland or Garcia? Did Ozzie make the right choice?


vafan
10-14-2005, 09:28 AM
Did Ozzie make the right choice starting Jon tonight instead of Freddie on his normal 4 day rest cycle? We shall find out.

On the one hand, the pitcher who starts tonight will be available for Game 7 on normal rest, if we get to a game 7. And while Lackey is clearly the Angels best starter, and someone who beat us on the year, Jon has not been our best starter down the stretch and has been beaten twice this year by the Angels.

On the other hand, if you want to maximize the number of games for which we have a clear edge in the starting pitching matchups, then it makes sense not to use Freddie against Lackey, but to use him against Santana. Lackey v. Garcia is probably a slight edge to Lackey because he's at home and had a better year than Freddie. Santana v. Garland is probably a push or an edge to Santana because Santana has had one great playoff outing and shut us out in Anaheim in his only appearance against us. Santana v. Garcia I think gives us an edge.

To know whether this was the right move will depend on watching 2 games, not just tonight's game. If the Sox come out of these next 2 games with no worst than a split, then I think Ozzie made the right choice.

But what I'd really love is for Garland to outduel Lackey. If we can beat the Angels' best pitcher, it will give us a huge edge in the series.

ajtokarz
10-14-2005, 09:42 AM
Garland is due. To take a phrase from Pedro...the Angels have been Garlands daddy this year. It's time for him to bring them up and knock them down. I'm looking forward to an excellent pitching matchup.

Terry21fg
10-14-2005, 09:59 AM
One way to look at it:

based on statistics, it's better to have Freddy pitch during day games on the road. Saturday's game is 6:30 CT but 4:30 on the West Coast...I'm not sure that qualifies for a day game....but it's closer then the 7:10 (5:10 west coast) start on Friday night.

I seriously think that if the Sox can take 1 out of the next 2 games they'll be in great shape. If Garland wins tonight, the Sox have Garcia, Jose, and Marky B taking the mound in the next 3 games....I think they have a good shot to win 3 of the next 4 games.

tlebar318
10-14-2005, 10:17 AM
I just hope Garland is not rusty..he hasn't pitched in a while...

TomBradley72
10-14-2005, 10:20 AM
Garland won 18 games....he's the right choice....and well rested.

Garcia seems somewhat worn down...I think he needs the extra day.

TDog
10-14-2005, 10:21 AM
I was thinking this morning, before Garland started winning games, people used to talk about what great stuff he had. When you look at the inability for the Sox to score in a lot of games in August and September, you have to figure he should have won at least 20. He may be rusty, although he pitched a simulated game Sunday. Against the Angels this week, the Sox have only scored 2 runs a game, which may not be enough whether Garland or Garcia is pitching.

I'm not worried about the pitching.

bigdommer
10-14-2005, 10:23 AM
Garland is due. To take a phrase from Pedro...the Angels have been Garlands daddy this year. It's time for him to bring them up and knock them down. I'm looking forward to an excellent pitching matchup.

I wouldn't say they are his daddy. He has one quality start against them (in the OC) and one bad start against them (during the Sept swoon).

I too think that Garland will have a good game, especially because the bullpen and El Duque are rested and I don't thing Ozzie will leave him out there too long if he gets in trouble. I can see Garland giving us 5-6 hard, tough innings while giving up two runs, and then El Duque comes in and gives way to Jenks in the 9th for a save against his old club.

FedEx227
10-14-2005, 10:23 AM
they couldn't possibly skip over Garland again...yeah freedy is in his 4-day rest rhythm but its been almost 2 weeks since Garland last pitched...and Garcia wasn't all that impressive in the last day game either.

bluestar
10-14-2005, 10:37 AM
I seem to recall a comment last season when Freddy said he actually preferred to have five days rest between starts. I believe this was during his "dead arm period" last year. Combine that with his seeming preference to pitch in day games on the road, and the Saturday game seems to be tailor made for him.

I think there is a good chance Garland will be sharp tonight. I thought he showed signs of fatigue at times during the second half (there were a few games where he relied on one or two pitches almost exclusively), and I am hoping the extra rest will benefit him.

MsSoxVixen22
10-14-2005, 11:00 AM
I think Garland will pitch great tonite! :D:

VenturaSoxFan23
10-14-2005, 11:05 AM
Jon's ready for a good run tonight. I have full confidence this was not just the best, but the only choice to make.

tdh11
10-14-2005, 11:09 AM
Jon Garland will out duel John "Gomer Pile" Lackey

TDog
10-14-2005, 11:14 AM
Jon Garland will out duel John "Gomer Pile" Lackey

I've never heard that one. I did hear someone call him John "Running Dog" Lackey at the ballpark once.

nasox
10-14-2005, 11:25 AM
It's simple, really. In a seven game series, I'd rather have Garland go with thirteen days rest then fourteen days. He's going to pitch either way, better make it sooner. Done.

elrod
10-14-2005, 11:29 AM
If Garland beats the Angles tonight, the series is over. This is the best pitching advantage the Angels will have the whole series. If they can't beat Garland, who they own, and we can beat Lackey, who has been great since the All-Star break, then the Angels are in big trouble.

IronFisk
10-14-2005, 11:31 AM
If Garland wins tonight, the Sox have Garcia, Jose, and Marky B taking the mound in the next 3 games....I think they have a good shot to win 3 of the next 4 games.

That's a pretty big IF!

What's scares me most is the game 7 scenairo if Garland stinks up the joint tonight. Yikes!

Jjav829
10-14-2005, 11:40 AM
That's a pretty big IF!

What's scares me most is the game 7 scenairo if Garland stinks up the joint tonight. Yikes!


I wouldn't worry too much about that. Just about everyone will be available if we go to game 7. That means Contreras and Freddy will be available out of the bullpen as well as the usual of Jenks, Politte, Cotts, Hermanson and El Duque (plus Marte and Vizcaino if we are that desperate).

If we do get to a game 7 and Garland sucks, we'll have basically 7 relievers that can be trusted to all throw an inning or more in most cases.

voodoochile
10-14-2005, 11:41 AM
That's a pretty big IF!

What's scares me most is the game 7 scenairo if Garland stinks up the joint tonight. Yikes!


:darkcloud:

:rolleyes:

A_ROW33
10-14-2005, 11:44 AM
If we do get to a game 7 and Garland sucks, we'll have basically 7 relievers that can be trusted to all throw an inning or more in most cases.

Not to mention that one of those relievers is named Orlando Hernandez. I've heard he isn't bad in big games.

vafan
10-14-2005, 12:07 PM
I like the point Ozzie made. Jon was well-rested in April when he came out of the chute with a 4-0 record and an 1.80 ERA.

Tonight is the moment to unleash our "secret" weapon, Jon Garland!

GO WHITE SOX!!

fquaye149
10-14-2005, 12:28 PM
I love how EVERYONE says "Garland hasn't been good down the stretch" as if it's some sort of gospel truth.

GMAB. He had a below average AUGUST with a 4.78 ERA, but in September he was solid - ERA below 4. Yes he went 2-6 in August and September but he got VERY little run support

Fuller_Schettman
10-14-2005, 12:30 PM
Conventional wisdom has been turned on its' head in this series. The tired Angels were supposed to give us game 1. We were supposed to light up Paul Byrd. Garland was supposed to be too rusty with his sinker. The White Sox were not supposed to sweep in Anaheim....

Vernam
10-14-2005, 12:51 PM
I love how EVERYONE says "Garland hasn't been good down the stretch" as if it's some sort of gospel truth.

GMAB. He had a below average AUGUST with a 4.78 ERA, but in September he was solid - ERA below 4. Yes he went 2-6 in August and September but he got VERY little run supportTHANK you! His last seven starts' ERA is 3.38. Some slump. That's exactly the same as his first-half ERA. Small sample, someone might say? His second-half ERA was 3.65. And note that it improved as he got into the tougher September stretch.

I do wish Garland's recent comments didn't lend credence to the long-layoff concerns. He's a good sport for not really complaining about being passed over, but to even address the layoff issue almost sounds like a pre-emptive excuse. Let's hope he won't need any excuses tomorrow morning because we're up two games to one.

Vernam

billcissell
10-14-2005, 01:12 PM
Granted, Garland slumped slightly during August and September. But it would have been very hard for him to continue on the pace he set to start the year. I think he was a little fatigued down the stretch, and yes, he didn't get very good run support.

Garland deserves a shot tonight. I have a good feeling he'll do just fine in front of the "home town" folks (since he is a California boy). Don't even think about match-ups for a game seven. This series has already taken some unexpected and odd twists and turns.

I figure the bats wake up a little tonight and we squeeze out a 4-3 win.

Go Sox!

goodsy72
10-14-2005, 02:05 PM
Garland's ready to go. Man his adrenaline will be sky high. Who's wouldn't pivotal game 3 LCS. Got to keep the momentum on our side. The offense needs to bring the thunder. I stopped posting in pick to click, because after you lose like fifty times in a row you start to think your the kiss of death. So I not saying anything but come on Jermaine we need you buddy. I'm not saying anything but come on. :fans

SOXFAN_in_WI
10-14-2005, 02:12 PM
think of what it would do to the psyche of Garland, to bump him to #4. He didn't get to see one pitch in the Boston series, and the other 3 got 3 wins. Now the guy that led the team in victories and made the all-star game would be bumped agian to #4, not good for a young pitcher that just learned what confidence is this year!

voodoochile
10-15-2005, 03:14 AM
think of what it would do to the psyche of Garland, to bump him to #4. He didn't get to see one pitch in the Boston series, and the other 3 got 3 wins. Now the guy that led the team in victories and made the all-star game would be bumped agian to #4, not good for a young pitcher that just learned what confidence is this year!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Post of the weak...:wink:

:jon
"Yeah, it really ****ed with my psyche. In fact it ****ed with my psyche so much that I got mad at Ozzie for bumping me down so far and then I decided to take it out on the LAAAAAAA. That'll teach them to authorize a trade for me and then back out. Hey, Eisner, that one was for you. How you like me now?"

shoota II
10-15-2005, 03:55 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Post of the weak...:wink:

:jon
"Yeah, it really ****ed with my psyche. In fact it ****ed with my psyche so much that I got mad at Ozzie for bumping me down so far and then I decided to take it out on the LAAAAAAA. That'll teach them to authorize a trade for me and then back out. Hey, Eisner, that one was for you. How you like me now?"

http://corporate.disney.go.com/media/corporate/management_team/thumb_michael_eisner.jpg

Jon Garland? You're no fan favorite. Sure my Erstad got thrown out at third but SoCal loves him. Jon Garland? That guy hasn't won a Gold Glove at any position, let alone two like Erstie.

Hey Eisner, still wondering like Milton why you're not drawing a paycheck any more?

34rancher
10-15-2005, 07:46 AM
Well now I understand why Garland Friday and Garcia Saturday. According to the Tribune, Garcia missed Game 2 whie his wife was having a baby. So giving him the Sat start gives him a chance to refocus and rest after that ordeal. Sometimes Ozzie does keep things quiet. Congrats Freddy..

ode to veeck
10-15-2005, 08:30 AM
If Garland beats the Angles tonight, the series is over. This is the best pitching advantage the Angels will have the whole series. If they can't beat Garland, who they own, and we can beat Lackey, who has been great since the All-Star break, then the Angels are in big trouble. I'd love to have it be true ... "the series is over", but you can't count out this talented Angels squad. Keep the pressure up tonight Freddie!!