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View Full Version : Hitman77's whinefest over Joey Cora


Hitmen77
10-13-2005, 08:52 AM
Yeah, he's the worst. No third base coach worth his salt has ever waved a runner home only to have him thrown out.:rolleyes:

So, by your logic, just because no 3rd base coach is perfect, we should settle for one who is terrible and who repeatedly gets our runners thrown out at home :?:

Rocky Soprano
10-13-2005, 08:54 AM
So, by your logic, just because no 3rd base coach is perfect, we should settle for one who is terrible and who repeatedly gets our runners thrown out at home :?:

You do know that when a post is in teal that means sarcasm, right?

Hitmen77
10-13-2005, 08:57 AM
You do know that when a post is in teal that means sarcasm, right?

Yes, but the other poster said "Yeah, he's the worst.." in teal. Meaning that he doesn't think Cora is a bad 3rd base coach.

Rocky Soprano
10-13-2005, 08:59 AM
Yes, but the other poster said "Yeah, he's the worst.." in teal. Meaning that he doesn't think Cora is a bad 3rd base coach.

Cora has cost us some runs, but he is aggresive, it was a great throw and they just got Rowand. Had the thrown been a bit off and Rowand was called safe everyone would of been praising Cora for being aggresive.

Its a game of inches, just ask Josh Paul.

spawn
10-13-2005, 09:02 AM
So, by your logic, just because no 3rd base coach is perfect, we should settle for one who is terrible and who repeatedly gets our runners thrown out at home :?:

I personally don't think he's terrible...I like the fact we have an aggressive third base coach that's not afraid to take chances. And the play last night...at first glance, it looked like Rowand had a chance to score. It was a close play. I'm not going to fault him for taking the chance, especially with our lack of production so far.

ChicagoHoosier
10-13-2005, 09:15 AM
I personally don't think he's terrible...I like the fact we have an aggressive third base coach that's not afraid to take chances. And the play last night...at first glance, it looked like Rowand had a chance to score. It was a close play. I'm not going to fault him for taking the chance, especially with our lack of production so far.

He was great/aggressive in the beginning of the year. I think he's made several questionable decisions in the past 6 weeks and when we're caught, it makes it even more obvious. Saying all that, Rowand was AWFULLY close at home and the 3B made a great play, so many things could have happened for Rowand to be safe.

Jerko
10-13-2005, 09:26 AM
IMO Rowand was sucking wind on his way to third. Then he dives, and gets sent home? He was chuggin, but he made the play pretty close. I don't know, you would think a team that tried 3,393 bunts in game one to get men to 2nd would have been happy with a man at 3rd and nobody out. Then again, I don't think the next 2 batters would have scored him anyway, IIRC there was a strikeout and a short pop to Vlad of all people after that. Still would have needed a 2 out hit. Unless of course the batters approached their at bats differently with a man on 3rd than they did after Rowand got called out. Who knows, who cares, the Sox won!

Hitmen77
10-13-2005, 09:39 AM
Sheesh, I make ONE POST about Cora not being a good 3rd base coach and suddenly the WSI Mods put me in a thread called Hitman77's Whinefest.


***** - sorry if I dared raise a plausible question. :angry:

Brian26
10-13-2005, 09:46 AM
Sheesh, I make ONE POST about Cora not being a good 3rd base coach and suddenly the WSI Mods put me in a thread called Hitman77's Whinefest.


***** - sorry if I dared raise a plausible question. :angry:

Enough....we won the ****ing game. Shut the hell up already and enjoy it. Three more wins until we make it to the promised land.

Hitmen77
10-13-2005, 09:55 AM
Enough....we won the ****ing game. Shut the hell up already and enjoy it. Three more wins until we make it to the promised land.

wow- shut the hell up about what? asking one question? Unforunately, it looks like this discussion could now go on in a circular manner where we argue about the replies. So, i'll stop this here - but I just have to say that some of you guys are real jackasses for taking my one question and turning it into this attack on me. You can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

Speak for yourself about enjoying the win - crap you can't even allow someone to ask raise a question about our 3rd base coaching without totally jumping all over the guy. Sounds like you're the one not enjoying the win.

Mods - next stop for this thread....ROADHOUSE.

pdimas
10-13-2005, 09:59 AM
I was praying that sending Rowand home wouldn't come back to bite us in the ass. It nearly did. All in all i'm ecstatic that we won. But all game until the 9th i couldn't help but wonder why even try a play that close with 0 outs? Now with 2 outs I say send him. Yeah it was a decent throw but he beat him by a bit.

GoSox2K3
10-13-2005, 10:01 AM
Hitmen,

Don't worry about it. I know that there is always the risk here that you post something that will be totally jumped on by people here. I've read your posts in the past and they are consistently good and that you're not a "dark cloud" - so don't take it personally. It's actually sort of funny how they pigeon-holed you into this discussion after your first post.

Just walk away from these bozos. :smile:

Hitmen77
10-13-2005, 10:13 AM
Hitmen,

Don't worry about it. I know that there is always the risk here that you post something that will be totally jumped on by people here. I've read your posts in the past and they are consistently good and that you're not a "dark cloud" - so don't take it personally. It's actually sort of funny how they pigeon-holed you into this discussion after your first post.

Just walk away from these bozos. :smile:

Thanks buddy!
I hope WSI doesn't just become a site where reasonable questions aren't allowed and people get shouted down without a thoughtful discussion. All we'd be left with is only mindless boosterism and complaints about the media.

Oh wait, didn't I say that I would stop feeding this thread? bad Hitmen, bad Hitmen.... :redface:

RKMeibalane
10-13-2005, 11:00 AM
Enough....we won the ****ing game. Shut the hell up already and enjoy it. Three more wins until we make it to the promised land.

Thank you. I think we all need to forget about this. I'm sure Ozzie will talk with Cora, Rowand, Crede, Uribe, and anyone who's been having base-running difficulties this series at some point. Game 3 is Friday.

Brian26
10-13-2005, 11:02 AM
actually, most of this is a reasonable discussion. If you read between the obnoxious post, seems like most people agree with you (watch out fellow whiners:wink: !) and most of the disagreements were thoughfully posted.
.... and one jackass who told you to "shut the hell up" with out adding anything intelligent.

The discussion was presented last night intelligently and thoughtfully in the game thread and in the post-game thread.

Coming here this morning to whine about Joey Cora when we're three wins from the World Series is really pointless and counter-productive. Go read the other threads to see what my reaction to the play was. I believe I called it "the dumbest play I've ever seen." The point is, it happened 12 hours ago, it has already been discussed, we won the game...let's move on.

IowaSox1971
10-13-2005, 05:29 PM
Cora is a very good third base coach. On numerous occasions this season, his gambles have paid off. He has helped us much more than he has hurt us.

On this particular play, the third baseman made an outstanding hustle play, and Rowand seemed to be almost jogging in from third. I'm sure fatigue was a factor. With no outs, this turned out to be a bad play. On the other hand, our philosophy is to put pressure on the other teams with constant hustle. If we all of a sudden start holding guys on plays when they are very likely to score, it could hurt us in the long haul, because teams will be able to play relaxed against us and we will pass up good scoring opportunities.

Think of it this way: How many times in the Jerry Manuel era did we hold guys at third unnecessarily and then end up not scoring in the inning anyhow? If we're going to have an aggressive approach, we're going to have to accept that we'll be thrown out now and then.

FarWestChicago
10-13-2005, 06:01 PM
Think of it this way: How many times in the Jerry Manuel era did we hold guys at third unnecessarily and then end up not scoring in the inning anyhow? If we're going to have an aggressive approach, we're going to have to accept that we'll be thrown out now and then.:waving

Don't look at me. I knew how to send 'em!

fquaye149
10-13-2005, 06:47 PM
Cora is a very good third base coach. On numerous occasions this season, his gambles have paid off. He has helped us much more than he has hurt us.

On this particular play, the third baseman made an outstanding hustle play, and Rowand seemed to be almost jogging in from third. I'm sure fatigue was a factor. With no outs, this turned out to be a bad play. On the other hand, our philosophy is to put pressure on the other teams with constant hustle. If we all of a sudden start holding guys on plays when they are very likely to score, it could hurt us in the long haul, because teams will be able to play relaxed against us and we will pass up good scoring opportunities.

Think of it this way: How many times in the Jerry Manuel era did we hold guys at third unnecessarily and then end up not scoring in the inning anyhow? If we're going to have an aggressive approach, we're going to have to accept that we'll be thrown out now and then.

Three facts:

1.) It was a horrible decision given the fact that a runner on third with no outs is almost a guaranteed run

2.) Even with the horrible decision it took a nearly perfect pick up and throw by quinlan and tag by molina to get Aaron

3.) Cora has made many questionable decisions over the past two months but that is not enough information to say he is a horrible third base coach. Furthermore the people who call for his job very seldom give any facts besides teh last bad call he made.

Just three facts. Do with them what you will.

Ol' No. 2
10-13-2005, 07:29 PM
Three facts:

1.) It was a horrible decision given the fact that a runner on third with no outs is almost a guaranteed run

2.) Even with the horrible decision it took a nearly perfect pick up and throw by quinlan and tag by molina to get Aaron

3.) Cora has made many questionable decisions over the past two months but that is not enough information to say he is a horrible third base coach. Furthermore the people who call for his job very seldom give any facts besides teh last bad call he made.

Just three facts. Do with them what you will.A guaranteed run? What team have you been watching the last month? They were getting NOTHING against Washburn. If he'd been stranded there, everyone would be screaming for Cora's head for NOT sending him.

If I had been in his place, I'd have held him. But that does not mean that sending him was a horrible decision. Things just aren't that black and white.

JohnBasedowYoda
10-13-2005, 08:46 PM
he should be axed. if you were to watch every game and every play i'm sure his agressiveness has COST us more runs than earned us.

fquaye149
10-13-2005, 08:50 PM
A guaranteed run? What team have you been watching the last month? They were getting NOTHING against Washburn. If he'd been stranded there, everyone would be screaming for Cora's head for NOT sending him.

If I had been in his place, I'd have held him. But that does not mean that sending him was a horrible decision. Things just aren't that black and white.

oh come on - I'm sorry but even against the best pitcher a runner on third with no outs is your best chance to score a run....at the very least it's much better than getting up from a head first slide on a ball that doesn't even leave the infield...

Look - even if AJ strikes out, we're still only a sac fly or ground out away from scoring. Even if Crede can't get it done, we still have one more shot.

I'm sorry - I don't care if Christy Mathewson is on the hill...a runner on third with no outs is almost guaranteed - you have to give a heroic performance (ala El Duque) not to let him score.

Norberto7
10-13-2005, 08:56 PM
Just to bring up two more plays that happened in Cora's neighborhood this series so far, to what degree is he culpable for Crede's pickoff at second in Game 2 and Uribe's near pickoff at second in Game 1?

I'd venture to say that the former is more Crede's fault, but in Game 1 Uribe was seemingly confused as to whether to go or stay. I didn't notice if they showed what Cora was signalling on TV. If anyone saw, were Cora's signals clear?

HotelWhiteSox
10-13-2005, 09:12 PM
I thought it was a stupid call, and unfair for Rowand that the broadcast implied he was at fault (I know, he's not going to cry over it, but Cora gets the free pass again). The problem is, he's tight with Ozzie, this has happened more than once, I doubt Ozzie says anything after these type of plays. He's made a lot of bad calls and they've gotten overlooked because of wins or the season in general. In the regular season, I guess it didn't matter since we finished with the best record, but all that's forgotten and these things can cost you. Also a similar gripe with Raines in Game 1, from the postgame comments, it sounds like it was him that read the wrong call and told/gave AJ the sign of a hit and run. I think it's a valid point, those who bring it up aren't taking anything away from the win or season, but no team is perfect, 3rd base coach is room for imporvement IMO (just do a search for Cora, and all those game threads are instances where he did something stupid)

Optipessimism
10-13-2005, 09:39 PM
A guaranteed run? What team have you been watching the last month? They were getting NOTHING against Washburn. If he'd been stranded there, everyone would be screaming for Cora's head for NOT sending him.

If I had been in his place, I'd have held him. But that does not mean that sending him was a horrible decision. Things just aren't that black and white.

I agree. If it was me, he is held not because I think he'd be out at the plate but because there were no outs. But then again if I'm Cora and we don't get the guy home in that inning I'm a terrible 3rd base coach.

I think that overall Cora is one of the main factors to keeping this team aggressive. As much as it hurts to see the team get burned by being too aggressive, that is the way this team has played and that is the way this team has won all the games it has. The bottom line here is that Cora needs to stay aggressive, the team has to stay aggressive, because it is far too late to go and change things now.

soxwon
10-13-2005, 10:23 PM
Enough....we won the ****ing game. Shut the hell up already and enjoy it. Three more wins until we make it to the promised land.

Da REverand says bless you my son!!!
you do read his words!!!