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View Full Version : Home Field Advantage in a 7 game series


HotelWhiteSox
10-12-2005, 03:33 PM
Anyone else hate the 2 (home) -3 (away) -2 (home) Format?

I'd like to see 3 (home) -3 (away) -1 (home)

just wondering?

tstrike2000
10-12-2005, 03:36 PM
Anyone else hate the 2 (home) -3 (away) -2 (home) Format?

I'd like to see 3 (home) -3 (away) -1 (home)

just wondering?

No, I don't like the 3 away.

Flight #24
10-12-2005, 03:45 PM
IMO the fairest & most equitable setup is 2-2-1-1-1. Each team is guaranteed 2 home games, and neither team is killed by a split in any individual city. IMO, I'd rather start on the road knowing if I can win 1 of 2, I put immense pressure on the "favorite" because I can close it out at home. Similarly, if each team holds serve, the advantage is to the "underdog" because they're up 3-2 heading back on the road.

ChiSoxRowand
10-12-2005, 04:00 PM
I like the 2-3-2 format. If you did the 2-2-1-1-1 format there would be too much travel. And you don't want anymore off days.

Flight #24
10-12-2005, 04:17 PM
I like the 2-3-2 format. If you did the 2-2-1-1-1 format there would be too much travel. And you don't want anymore off days.

I just don't believe that adding 2 travel days will make that much impact on the series. That's a maximum of 4 days tacked onto the baseball season. No big deal.

pearso66
10-12-2005, 04:25 PM
I hate the 2-3-2 series format. If the home team doesnt win the first 2, the team without homefield advantage basically gets homefield advantage. I liked the 2-2-1-1-1 much better.

Rocky Soprano
10-12-2005, 04:34 PM
I hate the 2-3-2 series format. If the home team doesnt win the first 2, the team without homefield advantage basically gets homefield advantage. I liked the 2-2-1-1-1 much better.

I agree.

Ol' No. 2
10-12-2005, 04:49 PM
I hate the 2-3-2 series format. If the home team doesnt win the first 2, the team without homefield advantage basically gets homefield advantage. I liked the 2-2-1-1-1 much better.That will still be the case regardless of the format.

Daver
10-12-2005, 04:50 PM
I just don't believe that adding 2 travel days will make that much impact on the series. That's a maximum of 4 days tacked onto the baseball season. No big deal.

Two more off days for travel, along with offsetting the start and end of the AL and NL series could extend the World Series into November.

pearso66
10-12-2005, 04:53 PM
That will still be the case regardless of the format.

I guess that could have been taken either way, but I meant if they didn't win both games. If they won 1, they lose homefield because if the other team sweeps at home, they are done after 5 games. If they lose both, yes both ways it doesnt matter. At least with the 2-2-1-1-1 if the home field advantage team loses 1 of the first 2, they can at least stop a slide at home before losing the series.

Bum
10-12-2005, 04:59 PM
Home field in baseball is overrated anyway. Minimizing travel is the most important thing.

Ol' No. 2
10-12-2005, 05:00 PM
I guess that could have been taken either way, but I meant if they didn't win both games. If they won 1, they lose homefield because if the other team sweeps at home, they are done after 5 games. If they lose both, yes both ways it doesnt matter. At least with the 2-2-1-1-1 if the home field advantage team loses 1 of the first 2, they can at least stop a slide at home before losing the series.If the home team splits the first two, they're still facing a best-of-five with three games on the road. That's true regardless of the format.

Johnny Mostil
10-12-2005, 05:05 PM
I guess that could have been taken either way, but I meant if they didn't win both games. If they won 1, they lose homefield because if the other team sweeps at home, they are done after 5 games. If they lose both, yes both ways it doesnt matter. At least with the 2-2-1-1-1 if the home field advantage team loses 1 of the first 2, they can at least stop a slide at home before losing the series.

So, in other words, it's the possible sweep in Games 3 through 5 after a split (or sweep) in the first two games that concerns you?

Am I correct in recalling that the NBA gives the team with home advantage in the Finals a choice of 2-3-2 or 2-2-1-1-1? I don't recall a team choosing 2-2-1-1-1. That may mean I'm not recalling this correctly. Or it may mean that even in a sport where home advantage is much more important than baseball (or at least appears to have more effect than in baseball) the team with "home" advantage chooses to have only one road trip instead.

In fact, I'm almost certain I recall somebody on the Sox--Guillen?--saying the best thing about home-field advantage throughout was having only one road trip for each series (sorry, I can't recall the exact source). By contrast, I suppose a wild card team playing through to the World Series could have up to six road trips (though I also suppose some of those would be combined, e.g., end of LDS and beginning of LCS).

gobears1987
10-12-2005, 05:08 PM
Two more off days for travel, along with offsetting the start and end of the AL and NL series could extend the World Series into November.Not just that, it screws up the pitching. A team with only 2 good pitchers could win the whole thing easily since their ace can go in 3 games then with the extra rest days.

Johnny Mostil
10-12-2005, 05:18 PM
Home field in baseball is overrated anyway. Minimizing travel is the most important thing.

Much more succinct and earlier than what I was trying to say. Thank you.

It appears the 2-3-2 format has been around since about the time the best-of-nine was dropped. In 1922, the Giants and Yankees alternated "home" games while playing all games at the Polo Grounds. The same thing happened in 1923, but the Yanks played their games then in Yankee Stadium. In 1924, the Senators and the Giants played 2-3-2, with no travel days.

Going back further (and with no relevance to modern times, I admit), the White Sox and Giants in 1917 opened on the South Side and played 2-2-1-1. There were travel days. I don't know where the seventh game would have been played. If 1909 is any indication, it would have been New York. The seven-game series between the Pirates and the Tigers had a 2-2-1-2 format, with the Pirates hosting the first game and the Pirates the last.

Of course, before divisional play, it was quite rare for a World Series to go beyond mid-October.

Chicken Dinner
10-12-2005, 05:33 PM
I just don't believe that adding 2 travel days will make that much impact on the series. That's a maximum of 4 days tacked onto the baseball season. No big deal.

At $50,000 per charter leg, I would say that's a big deal!

Flight #24
10-13-2005, 09:16 AM
If the home team splits the first two, they're still facing a best-of-five with three games on the road. That's true regardless of the format.

It's just much different, IMO to go into 3 in a row on the road v. alternating.

ma-gaga
10-13-2005, 09:53 AM
Two more off days for travel, along with offsetting the start and end of the AL and NL series could extend the World Series into November.

Doesn't it already extend that far? Didn't the media try to proclaim Derek Jeter as "Mr. November" last year???

Maybe they moved it back this year. :cool:

ode to veeck
10-13-2005, 10:19 AM
Two more off days for travel, along with offsetting the start and end of the AL and NL series could extend the World Series into November.


Just don't give them the off days on the backend of the series, like the end of the other ALDS

TDog
10-13-2005, 10:24 AM
Early in the World Series, the site alternated with every game -- 1-1-1- etc. That was true when the Sox beat the Cubs in 1906 when it was convenient, but also when train travel was required for the last two winning Cubs' World Series, between Detroit and Chicago in 1907 and 1908. Teams were closer in those days, but still, there were no days off between games. By the time the White Sox next won the Series in 1917, it was 2-2-1-1 -- six games being all the Sox needed. In 1920, when the Series returned to a best-of-seven format, baseball tried to minimize travel. The Dodgers had the homefield for the first three games and the Indians -- who won the Series in seven games -- played at home for the last four. When the Yankees and Dodgers were going at it in the 1950s, the 2-3-2 format in place wasn't changed because travel was not a factor. The format works to minimize homefield advantage.

Don't compare baseball to other sports. Pitching depth should count contribute to a champion season. The World Series is a battle between leagues that existed before there were playoffs to get there. It may be true that a team in the Championship Series has earned the homefield advantage and should get a clearer one. But don't forget that the Sox had a better record on the road, against the league and against the Angels.

I don't have any trouble with 2-3-2. It keeps travel to a minimum.

Just win. Whenever and wherever possible.

PaulDrake
10-13-2005, 10:27 AM
I just don't believe that adding 2 travel days will make that much impact on the series. That's a maximum of 4 days tacked onto the baseball season. No big deal. No bid deal? How far into November do you want to play ball?

Johnny Mostil
10-13-2005, 10:47 AM
Early in the World Series, the site alternated with every game -- 1-1-1- etc. That was true when the Sox beat the Cubs in 1906 when it was convenient, but also when train travel was required for the last two winning Cubs' World Series, between Detroit and Chicago in 1907 and 1908. Teams were closer in those days, but still, there were no days off between games. By the time the White Sox next won the Series in 1917, it was 2-2-1-1 -- six games being all the Sox needed. In 1920, when the Series returned to a best-of-seven format, baseball tried to minimize travel. The Dodgers had the homefield for the first three games and the Indians -- who won the Series in seven games -- played at home for the last four. When the Yankees and Dodgers were going at it in the 1950s, the 2-3-2 format in place wasn't changed because travel was not a factor. The format works to minimize homefield advantage.

Don't compare baseball to other sports. Pitching depth should count contribute to a champion season. The World Series is a battle between leagues that existed before there were playoffs to get there. It may be true that a team in the Championship Series has earned the homefield advantage and should get a clearer one. But don't forget that the Sox had a better record on the road, against the league and against the Angels.

I don't have any trouble with 2-3-2. It keeps travel to a minimum.

Just win. Whenever and wherever possible.

Picayune points, but baseball-reference.com shows Series for 1903 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1903_WS.shtml), 1905 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1903_WS.shtml), 1907 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1907_WS.shtml), 1908 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1908_WS.shtml), and 1909 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1909_WS.shtml) did not strictly alternate with every other game. The only ones I could find that did were 1906 (intra-city), 1911 (Phi-NYG), 1913 (Phi-NYG), and 1921 (intra-city), though there may be more.

The more important point, as you note, is to minimize travel, even jet travel.

Flight #24
10-13-2005, 10:58 AM
No bid deal? How far into November do you want to play ball?

Like I said - it's extending the season by 4 days. Is it that big of a deal if it ends on 11/3 instead of 10/30? IMO there's no magical threshold in between there.

RKMeibalane
10-13-2005, 11:03 AM
That will still be the case regardless of the format.

And besides, if the home team doesn't win the first two, that's their own damn fault.

TDog
10-13-2005, 11:04 AM
Picayune points, but baseball-reference.com shows Series for 1903 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1903_WS.shtml), 1905 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1903_WS.shtml), 1907 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1907_WS.shtml), 1908 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1908_WS.shtml), and 1909 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1909_WS.shtml) did not strictly alternate with every other game. The only ones I could find that did were 1906 (intra-city), 1911 (Phi-NYG), 1913 (Phi-NYG), and 1921 (intra-city), though there may be more.

The more important point, as you note, is to minimize travel, even jet travel.

You're right, I was looking at a list that didn't clearly define the home team while figuring this out before going into work. It looks like pre-1910, there wasn't a set pattern. In 1908 it went Det-Chi-Chi-Det-Det, which seems strange. In 1907, it went Chi-Chi-Chi-Det-Det, so the Cubs started out playing three at home, probably because the first game was a tie. In 1909, it was 2-2-1-2.

batmanZoSo
10-13-2005, 11:05 AM
I like the format the way it is. They do the 2-2-1-1-1 in the NBA during Conference time probably because of the teams' general close proximity to each other. But in baseball, the two leagues aren't arranged according to geography, so you can't have NY and LA making four flights across the country for one series.

Johnny Mostil
10-13-2005, 11:13 AM
Like I said - it's extending the season by 4 days. Is it that big of a deal if it ends on 11/3 instead of 10/30? IMO there's no magical threshold in between there.

Four days wouldn't be such a big deal if the season weren't already so extended. The World Series this year will begin on October 22 and could extend to October 30. Prior to divisional play, it was a very rare Series that went beyond October 15.

ChiSoxRowand
10-13-2005, 03:52 PM
Doesn't it already extend that far? Didn't the media try to proclaim Derek Jeter as "Mr. November" last year???

Maybe they moved it back this year. :cool:

They called him mr. November because he hit a walk off homer in november of 2001. The playoffs were pushed back a week because of 9/11.

Jerome
10-13-2005, 05:11 PM
1-1-1-1-1-1-1

downstairs
10-13-2005, 05:43 PM
How about 1-1-2-2-1?

RKMeibalane
10-13-2005, 05:57 PM
How about 1-1-2-2-1?

Don't give Selig anymore ideas.

PaulDrake
10-13-2005, 08:04 PM
Like I said - it's extending the season by 4 days. Is it that big of a deal if it ends on 11/3 instead of 10/30? IMO there's no magical threshold in between there. We'll just have to disagree on this one. On October 1 the average temperature in Chicago is a high of 71 degrees and a low of 52. By October 30 those numbers decline to 58 and 41. On November 3 it is 56 and 40, with an all time high of 76 and a low of 14. No thanks. Some year maybe this one, maybe another, the weather is going to make a true farce of the "Fall Classic."

Optipessimism
10-13-2005, 10:09 PM
Like I said - it's extending the season by 4 days. Is it that big of a deal if it ends on 11/3 instead of 10/30? IMO there's no magical threshold in between there.

Thie would be a terrible idea IMO.

Having more off days IMO is unfair, especially to a team like the Sox, because it takes away the advantage of depth. The extra time would allow a poorer team to only use a No. 3 starter once and then go back to their top 2 pitchers for the rest of the series. It also allows them to use the same two guys at the back of the bullpen every game in the series.

The deep playoffs are decided in a best of 7 series because it is supposed to provide enough room to decide who is the better team, and part of being a better team means a deep rotation and a deep bullpen.

PaulDrake
10-23-2005, 07:15 PM
We'll just have to disagree on this one. On October 1 the average temperature in Chicago is a high of 71 degrees and a low of 52. By October 30 those numbers decline to 58 and 41. On November 3 it is 56 and 40, with an all time high of 76 and a low of 14. No thanks. Some year maybe this one, maybe another, the weather is going to make a true farce of the "Fall Classic." Weather conditions tonight look pretty bad. I'm 800 miles away, so those of you in Chicago know best, but it looks bad. The baseball season lasts too long. May they get the game in, no one get hurt and the Sox go up 2-0. Someone in authority has to bring some sanity. Shorten the season, play doubleheaders, and end the World Series by around October 15. Still right now it is what it is. Go Sox!

Frater Perdurabo
10-24-2005, 09:07 AM
Weather conditions tonight look pretty bad. I'm 800 miles away, so those of you in Chicago know best, but it looks bad. The baseball season lasts too long. May they get the game in, no one get hurt and the Sox go up 2-0. Someone in authority has to bring some sanity. Shorten the season, play doubleheaders, and end the World Series by around October 15. Still right now it is what it is. Go Sox!

I'm in favor of more scheduled double-headers, particularly in stadiums that have retractable roofs and therefore cannot be rained out. But more double-headers should be coupled with more off days for travel, particularly when teams are travelling East from the West Coast. I'm also in favor of longer but fewer road trips and longer homestands to reduce travel costs, and scheduling that makes sense given weather and climate (more games in warm weather/climate-controlled cities in April, fewer games in hot cities in August).

PHG's idea about the split-season with a traditional World Series featuring AL and NL champs and an interleague "Commisioners Cup" tournament still is the best plan I've seen.

Railsplitter
10-24-2005, 09:52 AM
I like the 2-3-2 format. If you did the 2-2-1-1-1 format there would be too much travel. And you don't want anymore off days.

I'm with you. Incidently, except for rain, those all New York Series of the 30's 40's and 50's had no days off between games.

Malgar 12
10-24-2005, 11:08 AM
I just don't believe that adding 2 travel days will make that much impact on the series. That's a maximum of 4 days tacked onto the baseball season. No big deal.

There aren't 4 days of October left to add.

fquaye149
10-24-2005, 01:34 PM
2-2-1-1-1 would be absolutely ridiculous. If we're going to take it to that extreme, why not just go 1-1-1-1-1-1-1. For goodness sakes, this isn't the NBA. I want to actually WATCH BASEBALL, not have a day off every two days to overanalyze everything.

The fact is, a team can win a world series without winning a road game no matter how you slice it. Too bad. There is no way around this. Period.

Unless you are one of those Joe Morgan "momentum" worshippers, I see absolutely no reason to change the way the series is formatted.

doublem23
10-24-2005, 02:00 PM
Personally, I think the 2-3-2 format is OK for the World Series, because there's no real good way to determine which team should have home-field advantage, anyway. One team gets a block of 3 games in a row, the other plays 4 home games. However, for the ALCS and NLCS, they should use the 2-2-1-1-1 format, for the simple reason that it's not fair for a team that has earned the right to have homefield should ever have be in a situation in which they play more road games than home. Especially with the travel advances today, it's not like players need the day to take the train from city to city, they're on a plane for, at most 4 hours in pretty comfortable settings. Travel days used to be important because, you know, the players would actually be traveling, but today travel days consist of press conferences and practice. The Sox and Astros probably arrived in Houston last night with enough time to get 8 hours of sleep and still wake up hours before a game could be played today. With the added revenue of the play-off games, is it fair that the Angels, the AL's 2nd best team, reaped the rewards of hosting 3 LCS games while the Sox, the AL's best, only got 2?

I want Mags back
10-24-2005, 03:25 PM
2-2-1-1-1 like hockey.

having 3 straight away gives u no advantage at all

fquaye149
10-24-2005, 03:44 PM
2-2-1-1-1 like hockey.

having 3 straight away gives u no advantage at all

Tell that to the 1991 Twins who didn't win a single game on the road and still won the world series.

StockdaleForVeep
10-24-2005, 04:27 PM
I hate because with dominating teams like the sox, its impossible for them to clinch at home

chisoxfanatic
10-24-2005, 07:40 PM
The Dude and I were discussing this at Puffers last night, and he brought up a very good solution to this. A 3-3-1 format would allow for more of a HOME field advantage, giving the first three games to the "home" team. It allows for the same amount of travel as currently exists. I like this idea.

Brian26
10-24-2005, 07:42 PM
Tell that to the 1991 Twins who didn't win a single game on the road and still won the world series.

Or the '87 Twins for that matter.

Tragg
10-24-2005, 09:26 PM
IMO the fairest & most equitable setup is 2-2-1-1-1. Each team is guaranteed 2 home games, and neither team is killed by a split in any individual city. IMO, I'd rather start on the road knowing if I can win 1 of 2, I put immense pressure on the "favorite" because I can close it out at home. Similarly, if each team holds serve, the advantage is to the "underdog" because they're up 3-2 heading back on the road.

That's the way the NBA does it - until the finals when, for some reason, they revert to 2-3-2.

CubsfansareDRUNK
10-24-2005, 11:03 PM
i agree with an earlier poster, it sucks because its harder for us to clinch at home
I propose something like a 2-2-3 combo. :?:

doublem23
10-24-2005, 11:07 PM
i agree with an earlier poster, it sucks because its harder for us to clinch at home
I propose something like a 2-2-3 combo. :?:

So one team has 5 home games and the other just 2?

OEO Magglio
10-25-2005, 12:46 AM
Not just that, it screws up the pitching. A team with only 2 good pitchers could win the whole thing easily since their ace can go in 3 games then with the extra rest days.
Bingo. 2-3-2 is the way to go imo.