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Fenway
10-11-2005, 02:46 PM
Mad Dog on WFAN saying he has heard Cashman to take Phillies job and torre just might quit.

This could get ugly quick

Fans want A-Fraud traded somewhere now he is getting killed on FAN

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A row of Yankees hung over the dugout railing in the ninth inning last night, chins on hands, eyes staring blankly at home plate in search of the hit that never came. This was how it would finish. Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter and Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield all in a row, hopeless and helpless as their season slipped away.
FULL STORY (http://nydailynews.com/front/story/354642p-302327c.html)


Bronx bunglers collide in OFFilip Bondy: The San Diego Zoo sign is squeezed between corporate logos on the right-field wall. From now on, that spot will be known as the overcrowded space where Bubba Crosby slammed into Gary Sheffield, where Adam Kennedy's triple popped loose in the second inning, and where yet another Yankee postseason came to die.FULL STORY (http://nydailynews.com/front/story/354632p-302315c.html)

Vaccaro: Sorry, A-Rod You Are The New Emblem Of Futility (http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/55193.htm)


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Kogs35
10-11-2005, 02:51 PM
im watching this stuff on yes right now. interesting stuff

Viva Medias B's
10-11-2005, 02:54 PM
I think it had been expected that Cashman would leave regardless of how the Yankees fared. A-Rod was the goat of the series, and the ripping he is taking couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Flight #24
10-11-2005, 03:00 PM
Prediction: Cashman leaves, Torre stays. Big Stein hires Epstein (and his mudda), and gives him job #1 - move one of ARod/Sheff/Giambi and sign AJ Burnett.

Burnett goes on to an 8-12 / 4.67ERA season in 2006.

Viva Medias B's
10-11-2005, 03:07 PM
Prediction: Cashman leaves, Torre stays. Big Stein hires Epstein (and his mudda), and gives him job #1 - move one of ARod/Sheff/Giambi and sign AJ Burnett.

Burnett goes on to an 8-12 / 4.67ERA season in 2006.

I think Torre is gone because Lou Pinella is available.

SOXintheBURGH
10-11-2005, 03:09 PM
I think Torre is gone because Lou Pinella is available.

And Torre goes to the Cubs right!?!?!

spiffie
10-11-2005, 03:12 PM
If they want to eat 50% of the salary, I'm sure we could work out something to take A-Rod off the Yanks hands.

Tekijawa
10-11-2005, 03:13 PM
This couldn't have happened to a better bunch of guys!:supernana: :supernana:

Ol' No. 2
10-11-2005, 03:17 PM
If they want to eat 50% of the salary, I'm sure we could work out something to take A-Rod off the Yanks hands.Hmmm....That's got me wondering...how many players on other teams are having at least part of their salary paid by the Yankees? It's gotta come to at least $20M a year.

Madvora
10-11-2005, 03:24 PM
I only wish the Sox could have knocked them out.

Fenway
10-11-2005, 03:28 PM
It won't be long until the trade A-Rod for Manny threads start :?:

Theo is sitting pretty now because if Cashman does go to Philly, George will come calling. But I can't see Theo working with that Tampa office he wants control like Beane.

RKMeibalane
10-11-2005, 03:31 PM
The Yankees are on the verge of spiraling downward and sucking again, just like they at the start of the 90's. Boy, was that a great time to be a baseball fan.

Fenway
10-11-2005, 03:34 PM
http://images.viacomlocalnetworks.com/images_image_330165828
The Yankees are out of the 2005 baseball playoffs. Who deserves the bulk of the blame?
Joe Torre 9.48% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Alex Rodriguez 56.54% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Brian Cashman 4.08% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
George Steinbrenner 22.55% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Mike Mussina 7.35% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif

SoxSpeed22
10-11-2005, 03:36 PM
I for one, would love to see Sheff here as a DH. We're probably not gonna keep Carl and we don't know what's gonna happen with Frank. For more pop, I would like to have Sheff on this team. One problem is who we trade. I'll expect the offer to be at least Buehrle and some more. The other problem is eating another big contract when we are trying to keep Konerko.

SOXPHILE
10-11-2005, 03:36 PM
I guess the acquisition of "The Horn", Mark Bellhorn, didn't help as much as we all thought it would. :o:

kittle42
10-11-2005, 03:37 PM
The Yankees are out of the 2005 baseball playoffs. Who deserves the bulk of the blame?
Joe Torre 9.48% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Alex Rodriguez 56.54% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Brian Cashman 4.08% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
George Steinbrenner 22.55% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Mike Mussina 7.35% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif

I would have voted for Scott Proctor.

Or Proctor from Police Academy.

RKMeibalane
10-11-2005, 03:54 PM
http://images.viacomlocalnetworks.com/images_image_330165828
The Yankees are out of the 2005 baseball playoffs. Who deserves the bulk of the blame?
Joe Torre 9.48% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Alex Rodriguez 56.54% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Brian Cashman 4.08% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
George Steinbrenner 22.55% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Mike Mussina 7.35% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif

Typical New York reaction. Blame everything on one guy and push for him to be traded. Whether you like him or not, Alex Rodriguez is easily one of the top five players in all of baseball. If the spoiled Yankees fans don't want him, I'm sure someone else- the Dodgers- will be interested.

JorgeFabregas
10-11-2005, 03:59 PM
What is the obsession with AJ Burnett?

PaulDrake
10-11-2005, 04:00 PM
This is all so sad it's breaking my heart.

Ol' No. 2
10-11-2005, 04:01 PM
http://images.viacomlocalnetworks.com/images_image_330165828
The Yankees are out of the 2005 baseball playoffs. Who deserves the bulk of the blame?
Joe Torre 9.48% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Alex Rodriguez 56.54% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Brian Cashman 4.08% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
George Steinbrenner 22.55% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Mike Mussina 7.35% http://wfan.com/redbar.gifM-V-P! M-V-P! M-V-P!

ChiSoxRowand
10-11-2005, 04:13 PM
What is the obsession with AJ Burnett?

He lights up the radar gun. Nobody cares that he has a losing record and a four and a half ERA.

Flight #24
10-11-2005, 04:14 PM
I for one, would love to see Sheff here as a DH. We're probably not gonna keep Carl and we don't know what's gonna happen with Frank. For more pop, I would like to have Sheff on this team. One problem is who we trade. I'll expect the offer to be at least Buehrle and some more. The other problem is eating another big contract when we are trying to keep Konerko.

The nice thing about Sheff - IIRC, he's only under contract for 1 more year, so you could have KW saying "we'll apply the playoff revenues to 2006 payroll, and if we're in the red, it's only for 1 year". Then his salary comes off the books just in time for you to resign some of the pitchers.

And if you take on the contract, it won't cost you a ton. And since the Spankees desperately need young talent, I'd bet you could put together something from our mid-tier prospects for him.

Edit: Or you could probably get a ton of cash along with Sheff if you send them Rowand (repalced by Anderson). Rowand+Everett or Anderson+Sheff.........

BRDSR
10-11-2005, 04:18 PM
The Yankees are out of the 2005 baseball playoffs. Who deserves the bulk of the blame?
Joe Torre 9.48% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Alex Rodriguez 56.54% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Brian Cashman 4.08% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
George Steinbrenner 22.55% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif
Mike Mussina 7.35% http://wfan.com/redbar.gif

Any vote for Steinbrenner has me puzzled. How is it his fault? Did he not spend enough? No, thats obviously not the answer. The fact is that Brian Cashman is not a good GM and that he couldn't put together a winner with the assloads of money that Steinbrenner threw at him. He gets my vote. And this is why I would be concerned about KW talking to the Yankees.

chaerulez
10-11-2005, 04:19 PM
Sheffield's shoudler/arm is going to go within the next two years. Also the guy is a huge tool, I don't want him near the White Sox. The only guys I wouldn't mind in a Sox uniform are Matsui and maybe Posada.

Ol' No. 2
10-11-2005, 04:22 PM
Sheffield's shoudler/arm is going to go within the next two years. Also the guy is a huge tool, I don't want him near the White Sox. The only guys I wouldn't mind in a Sox uniform are Matsui and maybe Posada.Matsui is a FA. For all the talk about getting Manny Ramirez, I'd MUCH rather get Matsui. Not quite as good a hitter, but also not a complete tool. And with the $$$ difference you can get a solid LH reliever. Did Billy Wagner ever re-sign with the Phils?

Soxzilla
10-11-2005, 04:23 PM
I for one, would love to see Sheff here as a DH. We're probably not gonna keep Carl and we don't know what's gonna happen with Frank. For more pop, I would like to have Sheff on this team. One problem is who we trade. I'll expect the offer to be at least Buehrle and some more. The other problem is eating another big contract when we are trying to keep Konerko.

You would trade Buehrle....AND SOMEONE ELSE, for Gary Sheffield?

:hawk

"ARE YOU NUTS!?!?"

:DJ

"Certifiably, I bet."

SoxSpeed22
10-11-2005, 04:26 PM
You would trade Buehrle....AND SOMEONE ELSE, for Gary Sheffield?

:hawk

"ARE YOU NUTS!?!?"

:DJ

"Certifiably, I bet."That was one of the problems with getting Sheff. I said expect, not accept. Look closer.

Paulwny
10-11-2005, 04:27 PM
Sheffield's shoudler/arm is going to go within the next two years. Also the guy is a huge tool, I don't want him near the White Sox. The only guys I wouldn't mind in a Sox uniform are Matsui and maybe Posada.

Sheffield's physical problems have caused him to re-evaluate his baseball career. I read earlier in the year, NY paper(?) that he had told some friends that if he didn't improve physically , he'd retire early.

HotelWhiteSox
10-11-2005, 04:50 PM
Interesting to see how Cashman would do without $200 mil, and even this year, I thought he made some dumb moves. He tried to quickfix the pitching staff with a check and went by performances of one year and got Wright. I liked Pavano, but he hasn't been good. Add RJ to the equation, and that's 4 (without mentioning Kevin Brown) pitchers coming from the NL, who don't seem to like not facing a pitcher! Let's not forget the signing of Giambi.

So they have GM/Coaching issues, 2/3 of their outfield may be gone, are bad defensively in their current state, holes in their pitching staff, and a only 2 members of their bullpen are effective.

Time for Toronto and TB to make their run (of which I think Tor has a real shot)

SoxFan76
10-11-2005, 04:59 PM
Imagine what KW could do with that 200mil. Or 100mil for that matter.

Blame the GM Yankee fans!!!

4th Gen. Sox Fan
10-11-2005, 05:22 PM
Matsui is a FA. For all the talk about getting Manny Ramirez, I'd MUCH rather get Matsui. Not quite as good a hitter, but also not a complete tool. And with the $$$ difference you can get a solid LH reliever. Did Billy Wagner ever re-sign with the Phils?


If they signed Matsui, it would be good for Iguchi, having someone to pal around with, and if Iguchi swings freely next year w/ 25-30 Hr's and Matsui's run production, wow

Soxzilla
10-11-2005, 06:39 PM
That was one of the problems with getting Sheff. I said expect, not accept. Look closer.

It doesn't matter. You said you WANTED Sheff, and then you said you'd EXPECT to give up Buehrle + more, which thus in turn, makes it certainly seem like you would be ACCEPTING of that. Which is absolutely, ludicrously, maddeningly retarded.

That would be a horrible trade, no matter which way you look at it.

SoxSpeed22
10-11-2005, 06:49 PM
I would love to see Sheff on this team, but I would even more love to keep Buehrle.

SOXSINCE'70
10-11-2005, 07:56 PM
I would have voted for Scott Proctor.

Or Proctor from Police Academy.


What about Procter and Gamble??:redneck :redneck

Viva Medias B's
10-11-2005, 11:25 PM
I do not want Gary Sheffield. Not only is he a tool, but hasn't he been at least suspected of not being chemically honest?

Soxzilla
10-11-2005, 11:56 PM
I do not want Gary Sheffield. Not only is he a tool, but hasn't he been at least suspected of not being chemically honest?

He allegedly admitted to taking the clear in his testimony to the grand jury.

peeonwrigley
10-12-2005, 01:20 AM
He allegedly admitted to taking the clear in his testimony to the grand jury.

He definitely admitted to it, albeit taking it unknowingly. He openly admitted it to SI and dogged out Barry Bonds as his indirect source.

Linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1895380)

wdelaney72
10-12-2005, 09:07 AM
Matsui is a FA. For all the talk about getting Manny Ramirez, I'd MUCH rather get Matsui. Not quite as good a hitter, but also not a complete tool. And with the $$$ difference you can get a solid LH reliever. Did Billy Wagner ever re-sign with the Phils?

I'd love to have Matsui (moreso than Sheffield, but...
:hawk "Where's he gonna play?"

I don't think he's ready for DH duty just yet is he?

Goose
10-12-2005, 09:28 AM
He definitely admitted to it, albeit taking it unknowingly. He openly admitted it to SI and dogged out Barry Bonds as his indirect source.

Linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1895380)

There...fixed that for you.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I, for one, do not buy the lame-ass excuse being thrown out there that these PROFESSIONAL athletes, who rely on their bodies to "feed their families" would ever ingest ANYTHING without first knowing exactly what it was that they were taking. "I took it, but I didn't know what it was" is just plain bull****!

With that said...Shef on this team? NO THANKS.

Flight #24
10-12-2005, 09:40 AM
With that said...Shef on this team? NO THANKS.

Not calling you out specifically, but when you think about the threads that have been discussed lately, it's kind of silly:

- Do we want Manny Ramirez, only a .300/40/140 guy? Naaahhh.......
- Do we want Gary Sheffield, only a .300/35/120 guy? Who needs him!

I'm glad our offense is so darn powerful that we don't need to resort to AAA guys like that!

Fenway
10-12-2005, 10:09 AM
The New York tabloids are radioactive today. I've never seen them come down on the Yankees like this

and Steinbrenner's statement takes an indirect hit at Torre :o:

"I congratulate the Angels and their manager on the great job they've done Our team played hard, but we let our fans down. Our fans are the greatest in the world and I want to thank them for their amazing support throughout the season. We will do better."


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http://www.nypost.com/img/animatedc.gif (javascript:frontbackopen())


Boss manages to skip TorreGeorge Steinbrenner only hinted at his displeasure with the Yanks' division series ouster at the hands of the Angels in a statement released yesterday. The Boss did, however, take a subtle shot at Joe Torre by praising Angels skipper Mike Scioscia.FULL STORY (http://nydailynews.com/front/story/354957p-302485c.html)

Mike Lupica: Over the past five seasons, George Steinbrenner has spent just short of $1 billion on the Yankees in payroll and luxury taxes. It has bought him the softest Yankee postseason team in history. Including this team, one round and out against the Angels.
FULL STORY (http://nydailynews.com/front/story/354884p-302487c.html)

Bay watch: Boss has next moveBill Madden: Because it is the Yankees, because their $200 million payroll was twice the amount of the team that beat them and because we are talking about George Steinbrenner here, there will be blame aplenty for what played out Monday night.FULL STORY (http://nydailynews.com/front/story/354964p-302483c.html)

Goose
10-12-2005, 10:15 AM
Not calling you out specifically, but when you think about the threads that have been discussed lately, it's kind of silly:

- Do we want Manny Ramirez, only a .300/40/140 guy? Naaahhh.......
- Do we want Gary Sheffield, only a .300/35/120 guy? Who needs him!

I'm glad our offense is so darn powerful that we don't need to resort to AAA guys like that!

I agree that we need to find a solution for our unimpressive batting numbers. We could definitely use a guy that puts up numbers like you posted above. All I am saying (and I think others that don't want Ramirez or Shef are saying) is that we need to find someone that not only puts up numbers, but also fits the Sox style. When you build a team that has the chemistry that we see on the South Side this year, you have to be careful not to disrupt that chemistry. How many times have you heard on post game interviews with Sox players that what has gotten this team to where it is at is that they play like a team...there are no "superstars" (meaning that there are no egos) and everyone pulls for each other? I, personally, do not think that Ramierez of Shffield fit that mold (Ramierez more than Sheffield, but still). Ramierez asking to be traded, then recanting, is not what I would consider putting the team first. Shef calling out his teammates is not something that I want to see on the SOX. Further, I would never give up a top pitcher like MB (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) for an aging hitter who would end up being a DH if he came to the South Side. That to me is insanity. We need to find a guy similar to PK (with a better BA, of course) who puts the team first but is also feared in the batter's box. Is that an easy thing to do? Of course not. Can Ozzie change the attitudes of "me-first" players? Maybe, but maybe not. That is an experiment that I would rather not pursue.

Flight #24
10-12-2005, 10:40 AM
I agree that we need to find a solution for our unimpressive batting numbers. We could definitely use a guy that puts up numbers like you posted above. All I am saying (and I think others that don't want Ramirez or Shef are saying) is that we need to find someone that not only puts up numbers, but also fits the Sox style. When you build a team that has the chemistry that we see on the South Side this year, you have to be careful not to disrupt that chemistry. How many times have you heard on post game interviews with Sox players that what has gotten this team to where it is at is that they play like a team...there are no "superstars" (meaning that there are no egos) and everyone pulls for each other? I, personally, do not think that Ramierez of Shffield fit that mold (Ramierez more than Sheffield, but still). Ramierez asking to be traded, then recanting, is not what I would consider putting the team first. Shef calling out his teammates is not something that I want to see on the SOX. Further, I would never give up a top pitcher like MB (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) for an aging hitter who would end up being a DH if he came to the South Side. That to me is insanity. We need to find a guy similar to PK (with a better BA, of course) who puts the team first but is also feared in the batter's box. Is that an easy thing to do? Of course not. Can Ozzie change the attitudes of "me-first" players? Maybe, but maybe not. That is an experiment that I would rather not pursue.

I wouldn't argue that it's better to find a superstar hitter who's also a team-first guy. It would also be better for me to find $1M lying on the street - but it ain't likely to happen.

The fact is that the impact hitters who are or are likely to be available are few: Matsui, Sheffield, Ramirez, Delgado, maybe Griffey. And Manny's head & shoulders above the rest, whereas Sheff is possibly the most available (assuming big Stein wants to keep Matsui and will overpay to do so). Thus the decision will likely be between adding a superstar hitter and fitting him into the clubhouse or adding another decent, but not great player. IMO chemistry is a byproduct of winning as much as winning is a byproduct of chemistry. When the BoSox won last year, you didn't hear anything bad about Manny. When they lose, he's a problem. Add him to this team and you won't hear anything bad about him because they'll almost certainly be a top team.

There's no way you trade any of the pitchers outside of Marte and maybe, just maybe - El Duque. Adding a stud hitter at the expense of downgrades at multiple other spots in the lineup is a return to last year and would not be a great idea. Manny>>Konerko, so if you add him and have to replace Paulie with a 1B that's >>Everett (so Manny+??>>Konerko=Everett), that's an upgrade overall. But I'm hopeful that the success of this team enables them to add without subtracting elsewhere.

Goose
10-12-2005, 10:56 AM
The fact is that the impact hitters who are or are likely to be available are few: Matsui, Sheffield, Ramirez, Delgado, maybe Griffey.

Matsui, sure...Delgado? From what I know of him (as an individual), absolutely. The rest? You know where I stand. I would not necessarily mind Griffey, but we all know what the asking price would be for him, and in my opinion, not worth it at all. The Reds could have gotten a king's ransom for him before the Trade Deadline and did not bite. But maybe his stock went down after his latest injury...who knows...may be interesting to see how that would unfold. But with Griff, you put yourself in a position that the Sox are in right now with Frank. Great hitter when healthy, but doesn't do much to help when you're on the DL.

There's no way you trade any of the pitchers outside of Marte

At least we can agree on that! :D:

Flight #24
10-12-2005, 11:00 AM
Matsui, sure...Delgado? From what I know of him (as an individual), absolutely. The rest? You know where I stand. I would not necessarily mind Griffey, but we all know what the asking price would be for him, and in my opinion, not worth it at all. The Reds could have gotten a king's ransom for him before the Trade Deadline and did not bite. But maybe his stock went down after his latest injury...who knows...may be interesting to see how that would unfold. But with Griff, you put yourself in a position that the Sox are in right now with Frank. Great hitter when healthy, but doesn't do much to help when you're on the DL.


So the options become: Matsui, who's FA but a lesser hitter (but still better than most on the Sox), Delgado, who'll probably require significant talent in trade, or Manny/Sheff, who will probably require less in trade because of their salaries and "other issues".

I'd rather keep more "other talent" and get the same or actually a better hitter in Manny/Sheff than have to trade McCarthy or similar talent to get Delgado.

Ol' No. 2
10-12-2005, 12:39 PM
So the options become: Matsui, who's FA but a lesser hitter (but still better than most on the Sox), Delgado, who'll probably require significant talent in trade, or Manny/Sheff, who will probably require less in trade because of their salaries and "other issues".

I'd rather keep more "other talent" and get the same or actually a better hitter in Manny/Sheff than have to trade McCarthy or similar talent to get Delgado.I'd rather keep ALL the "other talent" and sign Matsui. Especially since the smaller $$$ will be enough for a significant bullpen upgrade.

Flight #24
10-12-2005, 01:32 PM
I'd rather keep ALL the "other talent" and sign Matsui. Especially since the smaller $$$ will be enough for a significant bullpen upgrade.

What do you think the going rate for Matsui is? If George wants him, he'll keep him no matter what. IMO he'll get $10-14mil, Garrett Anderson money. Sheff makes $13 including some deferred, the $3mil ain't getting you much. & Manny's a far far superior player.

Plus, I'm not convinced that there's any dire need in the bullpen anyway. Cotts-Politte-Hermanson-Jenks are just fine, and a Wagner/Hoffman's going to cost more than you'll save via Matsui.

Ol' No. 2
10-12-2005, 01:45 PM
What do you think the going rate for Matsui is? If George wants him, he'll keep him no matter what. IMO he'll get $10-14mil, Garrett Anderson money. Sheff makes $13 including some deferred, the $3mil ain't getting you much. & Manny's a far far superior player.

Plus, I'm not convinced that there's any dire need in the bullpen anyway. Cotts-Politte-Hermanson-Jenks are just fine, and a Wagner/Hoffman's going to cost more than you'll save via Matsui.Manny's getting $20M, IIRC. Even at $13M for Matsui, I think they could get a pretty good reliever for the difference. And don't kid yourself. They need a solid LH arm in the bullpen besides Cotts (who isn't particularly good against lefties).

Fenway
10-12-2005, 01:50 PM
from the home office at 161st and River
http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/top_ten/


Top Ten New York Yankees Excuses

10. "The Angels have developed a secret pitch that curves"

9. "Players left logy by clubhouse paella"

8. "Aren't used to rat-free outfield"

7. "Average player age is 52"

6. "Didn't know if they were playing California Angels, Anaheim Angels, or Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim"

5. "Acid reflux"

4. "How are you supposed to field a competitive team on $200 million?"

3. "Due to typo in latest memo, Steinbrenner demanded players give 10%"

2. "Giambi lost his lucky syringe"

1. "Who can concentrate on Baseball when Hockey is back?"

©MMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc.

Flight #24
10-12-2005, 01:56 PM
Manny's getting $20M, IIRC. Even at $13M for Matsui, I think they could get a pretty good reliever for the difference. And don't kid yourself. They need a solid LH arm in the bullpen besides Cotts (who isn't particularly good against lefties).

:?:
In 3 years, he's faced 210 ABs, and given up a whopping .324 OBP and this year that was down to .284. Plus Jenks & Politte are pretty good agaisnt lefties as well.

IMO Manny makes everyone around him better, and he's better than Matsui. The combo is worth more since they play everyday than a lefty reliever, esp when we have a good one already. We can agree to disagree.