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mike squires
10-10-2005, 11:27 PM
We all now how powerful the Yankees were in the late 70's and their "dynasty" in the 90's and 00's. What the hell happened to them in the 80's. Did Goerge just not want to spend money around this time or what? Just curious...

antitwins13
10-10-2005, 11:34 PM
Billy Martin died and they had a slew of bad managers till they got Joe Torre

chaerulez
10-11-2005, 02:29 AM
Billy Martin died and they had a slew of bad managers till they got Joe Torre

No, Steinbrenner was too hands on with the team and ruined it with his bad baseball decision making. This is why a lot of people say when Steinbrenner was suspended from baseball for a couple years, it was the best thing to happen to the Yankees as he couldn't make decisions like trading Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps. Gene Michael and Brian Cashman were left to actually develop players and that's how Jeter, Posada, Williams, Pettite, and Rivera were able to come through the system without being traded. Now with Steinbrenner making more decisions that aren't considered very smart (Sheffield over Vlad, signing what turned out to be a not as good Randy Johnson, the signings of Giambi and Mussina will end up hurting them in the last few years of each players deal, Raul Mondsei). There are more other questionable decisions by the Yankees (you'd never know because according to ESPN the Yankees are so great), but I'm sure you get the idea now.

jortafan
10-11-2005, 08:20 AM
When talking about the Yankees of the 1980s, keep in mind that they weren't that bad until the very end of the decade.

They had the best record in Major League Baseball for the decade, actually won one American League pennant and a division title, and were in contention virtually every year.

Other ballclubs would love to have a decade like that. Only by the arrogant standard of thinking that your ballclub is entitled to a World Series title every season were the 1980s a bad decade for the Yankees.

It also didn't help the Yankees that their pitching was weak during the decade. Most years, it was Ron Guidry and whichever four mopes they could find to flesh out a starting rotation.

DenverSock
10-11-2005, 09:15 AM
No, Steinbrenner was too hands on with the team and ruined it with his bad baseball decision making. This is why a lot of people say when Steinbrenner was suspended from baseball for a couple years, it was the best thing to happen to the Yankees as he couldn't make decisions like trading Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps. Gene Michael and Brian Cashman were left to actually develop players and that's how Jeter, Posada, Williams, Pettite, and Rivera were able to come through the system without being traded. Now with Steinbrenner making more decisions that aren't considered very smart (Sheffield over Vlad, signing what turned out to be a not as good Randy Johnson, the signings of Giambi and Mussina will end up hurting them in the last few years of each players deal, Raul Mondsei). There are more other questionable decisions by the Yankees (you'd never know because according to ESPN the Yankees are so great), but I'm sure you get the idea now.

I think you have an exact handle on the situation. I was thinking of writing the exact same thing as I scrolled down the thread, but saw your post. I'd add, however, that one of the things which went right while Steinbrener was suspended, was simply, nobody interferred with the farm system. Players were allowed to develop and mature. that's how Jeter got there for example. Also, Steinbrenner always neglected pitching for hitting. When he got back into micromanaging the team a slow decline set in. You can buy all the talent you want, but that can't be the core of the team.

This is especially true when you are fixated on winning immediately. You end up buying big names, some of whom are washed up, i.e. Randy Johnson. And then there are questions of chemistry. Not everybody plays well together, even if they're great. It's easier to make adjustments while still learning, down on the farm.

I know my post reflects a lot in your post. So, chaerulez, chalk it up to great minds think alike.

downstairs
10-11-2005, 05:10 PM
When talking about the Yankees of the 1980s, keep in mind that they weren't that bad until the very end of the decade.

They had the best record in Major League Baseball for the decade, actually won one American League pennant and a division title, and were in contention virtually every year.

True, indeed. Its much like the White Sox from '89 - '99. I think they had the best record in the MLB over that time (at least close). And only 1 playoff appearance, which they lost.

The Yanks suffered from that same "always in second place" problem...

Had there been a wild card through the '80s and '90s... who knows... we could have seen a Yankees dynasty followed by a White Sox dynasty...

RKMeibalane
10-11-2005, 05:12 PM
True, indeed. Its much like the White Sox from '89 - '99. I think they had the best record in the MLB over that time (at least close). And only 1 playoff appearance, which they lost.

The Yanks suffered from that same "always in second place" problem...

Had there been a wild card through the '80s and '90s... who knows... we could have seen a Yankees dynasty followed by a White Sox dynasty...

It's possible. Several of the teams that Mattingly, Winfield, Rickey Henderson played on finished in second place behind either Toronto, Boston, or Detroit, as these were some of the better American League teams at the time.

Johnny Mostil
10-11-2005, 05:33 PM
True, indeed. Its much like the White Sox from '89 - '99. I think they had the best record in the MLB over that time (at least close). And only 1 playoff appearance, which they lost.


I'm obsessive about these things, so I had to look this up. Between 1989 and 1999 inclusive (11 seasons, including the shortened seasons of 1994 and 1995), the White Sox had the fourth most regular season victories (885) in the American League, trailing the Yankees (925), the Red Sox (897), and the Indians (896), just ahead of the Orioles (881).

Between 1980 and 1989 inclusive (10 seasons, including the shortened season of 1981), the Yankees had more regular season victories (854) than any other AL team (and only two losing seasons, 1982 and 1989). Trailing the Yankees were the Tigers (839), the Royals (826), the Red Sox (821), the Brewers (sic, 804), the Athletics (803), the Orioles (800), the Angels (783), and the White Sox (758).

Huisj
10-11-2005, 06:39 PM
I'm obsessive about these things, so I had to look this up. Between 1989 and 1999 inclusive (11 seasons, including the shortened seasons of 1994 and 1995), the White Sox had the fourth most regular season victories (885) in the American League, trailing the Yankees (925), the Red Sox (897), and the Indians (896), just ahead of the Orioles (881).

Between 1980 and 1989 inclusive (10 seasons, including the shortened season of 1981), the Yankees had more regular season victories (854) than any other AL team (and only two losing seasons, 1982 and 1989). Trailing the Yankees were the Tigers (839), the Royals (826), the Red Sox (821), the Brewers (sic, 804), the Athletics (803), the Orioles (800), the Angels (783), and the White Sox (758).

Why is '89 being included in this analysis? The sox were bad in '89. That was the year they put the last pieces into the rebuilding by trading the franchise player, Harold Baines, at the deadline. 1990 was their surprise breakout year, so why not just do the analysis for the 90s (1990-1999)?

downstairs
10-11-2005, 06:42 PM
Why is '89 being included in this analysis? The sox were bad in '89. That was the year they put the last pieces into the rebuilding by trading the franchise player, Harold Baines, at the deadline. 1990 was their surprise breakout year, so why not just do the analysis for the 90s (1990-1999)?

I think it was because I mistakenly said 89-99.... I guess I meant 90-99.

I always confuse the 89 and 90 seasons...

Huisj
10-11-2005, 06:45 PM
I think it was because I mistakenly said 89-99.... I guess I meant 90-99.

I always confuse the 89 and 90 seasons...

I see. No problem. I always remember '89 because it was the first time I ever remember having a negative emotional outburst over the sox. When my dad told me they'd traded Baines (who had become my childhood hero at the home opener that year), I threw my sox hat on the ground and stomped on it and said I hated them. I didn't quite understand the whole trade deadline thing or rebuilding or free agency or any of that at that age yet.

Johnny Mostil
10-11-2005, 07:14 PM
As noted, I included '89 because the period '89 to '99 was mentioned. For the period '90 to '99, the Sox had the third most regular season wins (816) in the AL, trailing the Yankees (851) and the Indians (823), just ahead of the Red Sox (814).

More useless trivia (pardon the redundancy): since 2000, the Sox have the fourth most victories (527) in the AL, trailing the Yankees (582), the Athletics (571), and the Red Sox (548). The Orioles had the most wins in the 1970s and the 1960s. The Yankees had the most in the 1950s, 1940s, 1930s, and 1920s. The Red Sox had the most in the 1910s, and the White Sox had the most from 1901 (AL recognized as a major) through 1909.

chaerulez
10-12-2005, 08:26 AM
The White Sox do have the longest active streak for not having a top 10 draft pick (which means they haven't finished in the bottom 5 of their league), which I think extends back to that bad season of 1989.

Railsplitter
10-12-2005, 01:04 PM
We all now how powerful the Yankees were in the late 70's and their "dynasty" in the 90's and 00's. What the hell happened to them in the 80's. Did Goerge just not want to spend money around this time or what? Just curious...

Yeah, but he spent a lot on guys who weren't exactly in the prime of thier careers, such as Don Baylor and Griffey Senior.

ode to veeck
10-13-2005, 10:21 AM
Personally, I preferred the Yankees of the 80s, kinda like I liked the Yankees of the early 70s. They're much better when they suck!

Baby Fisk
10-17-2005, 11:51 AM
Personally, I preferred the Yankees of the 80s, kinda like I liked the Yankees of the early 70s. They're much better when they suck!
Yankee Haters fondly remember the 80s as the Golden Era. :cool:

LongLiveFisk
10-17-2005, 07:55 PM
I always confuse the 89 and 90 seasons...

Hell, not me. In White Sox history, 1989-BAD, 1990-GOOD! :D:

tifosiv122
10-17-2005, 11:51 PM
I was born in 1980 in NJ, and for most of my life, the Yankees sucked...life was better back then...although, I think we are going to see it again for a long time...I doubt they even make the post-season next year.

Erik