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NotSince1917
10-09-2005, 03:39 PM
As of Sunday's workout, it's Contreras, Buehrle, Garland and Garcia.

I don't think I like Garland throwing the first road game since he won't have pitched in nearly two weeks. He's a combined 0-3 against the Angels and Yankees this year.

Chips
10-09-2005, 03:42 PM
I would rather see Garcia in game 3

Madvora
10-09-2005, 03:51 PM
That is definitely a surprise. I guess I've learned to trust Ozzie by now though.

Banix12
10-09-2005, 04:36 PM
Forget Garland, the important part of this setup is it basically sets it up so Contreras, who has been the best starter on the sox, gets to start at least twice. Buehrle also gets to start his games at home.

Garland has been a pretty good road pitcher this season so I don't have a problem with him going game 3. I would rather him get his first post season start at home but I think you have to start the series with your two best guys and get them as many starts in a 7 game series as possible.

batmanZoSo
10-09-2005, 04:38 PM
Game 3 starter goes in game 7. Do you want Garland throwing in game 7? I don't.

Ol' No. 2
10-09-2005, 04:40 PM
Game 3 starter goes in game 7. Do you want Garland throwing in game 7? I don't.Did you see Garcia pitching on Friday? Garland can do at least as well. The only thing that might make me reconsider this is if the Sox were playing the Yankees. I might be tempted to start Buehrle on the road to at least partially neutralize the short porch in RF.

cubhater
10-09-2005, 04:41 PM
As of Sunday's workout, it's Contreras, Buehrle, Garland and Garcia.

I don't think I like Garland throwing the first road game since he won't have pitched in nearly two weeks. He's a combined 0-3 against the Angels and Yankees this year.

I thought Ozzie earlier hinted that he wanted Garland to start game one because he didn't want to give him too much rest. No complaints about this rotation though. Give Contreras the ball as much as possible!

Banix12
10-09-2005, 04:43 PM
Game 3 starter goes in game 7. Do you want Garland throwing in game 7? I don't.

You don't set up your rotation worrying about game 7, you set up your rotation so you hope you never have to get to game 7. Put your best two guys in the series early, try to get ahead in the series, and hope you have it done by game 5 or 6.

Also I really don't mind Garland going in game 7 if it comes to that.

ilsox7
10-09-2005, 04:43 PM
This is the best way to align the rotation. It gives us our best chance to win Game 1 and take the initial momentum. It also gives us our best chance to win Game 5, which is usually the pivotal game in a 7 game series. If we go into Game 5 tied at two games, you want JC out there. If we go into Game 5 down 3-1, well you have to win every game so it really doesn't matter how you line them up.

batmanZoSo
10-09-2005, 04:44 PM
Did you see Garcia pitching on Friday? Garland can do at least as well. The only thing that might make me reconsider this is if the Sox were playing the Yankees. I might be tempted to start Buehrle on the road to at least partially neutralize the short porch in RF.

He can do worse, too. Yeah, I'd go Contreras, Garland, Buehrle, Garcia.

batmanZoSo
10-09-2005, 04:45 PM
You don't set up your rotation worrying about game 7, you set up your rotation so you hope you never have to get to game 7. Put your best two guys in the series early, try to get ahead in the series, and hope you have it done by game 5 or 6.

Also I really don't mind Garland going in game 7 if it comes to that.

Okay, so how does pitching Garland before Garcia give us the best chance to avoid a Game 7?

ilsox7
10-09-2005, 04:49 PM
It should also be noted that Garland will not necessarily go in Game 7. If Garcia throws significantly better in his game than Garland does, I am guessing you'll see FG go on short rest for a Game 7. Either way, I feel good about JG out there.

Banix12
10-09-2005, 04:53 PM
Okay, so how does pitching Garland before Garcia give us the best chance to avoid a Game 7?

Garland at the Cell vs. Garcia at the Cell. Garland pitches better at home so he's better in a game 7.

As for avoiding a Game 7, it doesn't matter which order Garcia and Garland go in the first go around. Game 3, Game 4, either way they are both getting a start. Pitching Contreras twice in the first 5 games is what gives the sox the best shot at avoiding a game 7 because he has pitched so well he might get 2 wins himself.

CallMeNuts
10-09-2005, 05:02 PM
How about El Duque in game 5 at Yankee Stadium, with BMac added to the pen in lieu of Marte? This would set up Contreras & Buehrle for games 6 & 7 at home if need be, but preferably for game 1 & 2 of the World Series.

Banix12
10-09-2005, 05:06 PM
How about El Duque in game 5 at Yankee Stadium, with BMac added to the pen in lieu of Marte? This would set up Contreras & Buehrle for games 6 & 7 at home if need be, but preferably for game 1 & 2 of the World Series.

You're nuts, CallMeNuts (couldn't resist)

El Duque hasn't shown the ability to go deep into a ballgame much this season and while he is the freshest arm it likely puts you in a situation where you have a game where you burn up your bullpen. Keep him in the pen and you don't need a fifth starter in the ALCS.

ilsox7
10-09-2005, 05:08 PM
How about El Duque in game 5 at Yankee Stadium, with BMac added to the pen in lieu of Marte? This would set up Contreras & Buehrle for games 6 & 7 at home if need be, but preferably for game 1 & 2 of the World Series.

No way. You want your best pitcher to go in Games 1 and 5, as those are usually the most important games in a series.

MRKARNO
10-09-2005, 05:09 PM
No way. You want your best pitcher to go in Games 1 and 5, as those are usually the most important games in a series.

Or to rephrase, you want your best pitchers early and often. By that definition, you do what Ozzie did.

chaerulez
10-09-2005, 05:11 PM
Any news if Marte or Vizcano are out, and BMac is in?

Banix12
10-09-2005, 05:16 PM
Any news if Marte or Vizcano are out, and BMac is in?

According to this trib article McCarthy is off the roster again.

"Garland didn't start against Boston, so he will be pitching on nearly two weeks rest. That's why he and the talented rookie McCarthy -- who was again left off the roster -- were throwing to batters Sunday in simulated games along with relievers Damaso Marte and Luis Vizcaino."

link (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-051009sox,1,5361588.story?coll=cs-home-headlines)

Huisj
10-09-2005, 05:16 PM
Marte is still in. McCarthy is still out.

Jjav829
10-09-2005, 05:20 PM
Good decision. It's not fair to Garland to have to sit this long as well as he has pitched in the regular season, but this isn't the time to do what is fair. Ozzie has to do what is best for the team and at this point that means pitching Contreras in game 1 and Buehrle in game 2. IMO, game 2 is always the biggest game in a series. It's the swing game of a series, especially for the home team. If you're the home team and you go down 0-1, you have to win game 2. If you go up 1-0 then game 2 allows you to either take control of the series or let the other team steal home field. I'd rather have Buehrle going in game 2 than Garland.

Good decision, Ozzie.

longshot7
10-09-2005, 07:34 PM
Contreras
Buehrle
Garland
Garcia

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-051009sox,1,5361588.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

Canadian_SoxFan
10-09-2005, 08:02 PM
I undertand you want to go with your hot pitcher in Game 1, but i do not like the decision to start Contreras in Game 1, and push back to Garland to game 3. Jon had the most wins on the team (18) and the second best ERA among starters (I believe 3.50). He is of the main reasons we had the best record in the AL, and pretty much carried the staff, along with Buehrle, for the first half of the season. He was chosen as an all-star for his efforts. And, even though he hasn't been his best the past month, I know he would be ready aand would pitch effectively in game 1. However, by the looks of things he won't get a chance to pitch until game 3, which is a shame because he has been so good this year.

whitesoxfan
10-09-2005, 08:03 PM
i also like the rotation. About the only thing that i would consider doing differently is flipping Garland and Buehrle's turns in the rotation. I'm not going to complain about that though.

lets just hope Ozzie doesn't use Marte at all during this series.

SouthSide_HitMen
10-10-2005, 12:22 AM
Good decision. It's not fair to Garland to have to sit this long as well as he has pitched in the regular season, but this isn't the time to do what is fair. Ozzie has to do what is best for the team and at this point that means pitching Contreras in game 1 and Buehrle in game 2. IMO, game 2 is always the biggest game in a series. It's the swing game of a series, especially for the home team. If you're the home team and you go down 0-1, you have to win game 2. If you go up 1-0 then game 2 allows you to either take control of the series or let the other team steal home field. I'd rather have Buehrle going in game 2 than Garland.

Good decision, Ozzie.

Garland pitched a simulated game today - 70 pitches against Timo Perez, Pablo Ozuna, Chris Widger and Willie Harris among others.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051009&content_id=1243863&vkey=ps2005news&fext=.jsp

PaleHoseGeorge
10-10-2005, 12:27 AM
Garland pitched a simulated game today - 70 pitches against Timo Perez, Pablo Ozuna, Chris Widger and Willie Harris among others.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051009&content_id=1243863&vkey=ps2005news&fext=.jsp

In other words, barring an 18-inning marathon game, Garland faced all the Sox hitters who don't figure to get any playing time between now and the end of the season.

:jon
"Is this what I've been reduced to, striking out Willie Harris? What's the challenge in that?"

:kmarte
"Damn, why wasn't I invited to take some cuts? Ozzie told me my shorts were nailed to the bench for the rest of the year."

SouthSide_HitMen
10-10-2005, 12:31 AM
In other words, barring an 18-inning marathon game, Garland faced all the Sox hitters who don't figure to get any playing time between now and the end of the season.

:jon
"Is this what I've been reduced to, striking out Willie Harris? What's the challenge in that?"

:kmarte
"Damn, why wasn't I invited to take some cuts? Ozzie told me my shorts were nailed to the bench for the rest of the year."

With Ozzie in charge, you never know who will be in the starting lineup :?: . I think the point is Cooper is trying to keep him on some sort of normal throwing routine.

Despite all the nervous chatter on this board (as if the numerous panic attacks over the past few months proved rational) having a couple days off will not hurt the Sox. If anything, Ozzie has prepared the team for this as well with his liberal substitutions throughout the regular season.

Chips
10-10-2005, 12:32 AM
I undertand you want to go with your hot pitcher in Game 1, but i do not like the decision to start Contreras in Game 1, and push back to Garland to game 3. Jon had the most wins on the team (18) and the second best ERA among starters (I believe 3.50). He is of the main reasons we had the best record in the AL, and pretty much carried the staff, along with Buehrle, for the first half of the season. He was chosen as an all-star for his efforts. And, even though he hasn't been his best the past month, I know he would be ready aand would pitch effectively in game 1. However, by the looks of things he won't get a chance to pitch until game 3, which is a shame because he has been so good this year.

But Contreras has been the hot hand, he won 8 straight. He's been lights out for about a month and half.

DaleJRFan
10-10-2005, 11:00 AM
Garland pitched a simulated game today - 70 pitches against Timo Perez, Pablo Ozuna, Chris Widger and Willie Harris among others.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051009&content_id=1243863&vkey=ps2005news&fext=.jsp


Grrrreat. So WSI now has a 'Simulated Game' Watch... :redneck

balke
10-10-2005, 11:21 AM
I'm pretty surprised so many people are so down on Garland pitching 2 games. He had a lack-luster 2nd half, but it wasn't terrible. At the end of the season he led the sox in wins, and had the 2nd lowest starting pitcher ERA on the Sox, and 3rd most innings pitched.

He was the front runner for Cy Young the majority of the season, and he is someone that is at full strength on 4 days rest, sometimes 3 days rest. I think he has something to prove, but there shouldn't be any griping by sox fans because Garland gets the nod over Garcia this time around. We should be very happy about it if he can pitch like he did all through the first half of the season.

I do believe Contreras and Buehrle start before Jon for now though. Mark came into the season as the #1, and is hotter, and Contreras is on fire. He also had a hell of a game in Yankee stadium earlier this year.

kevingrt
10-10-2005, 12:02 PM
I'm in the boat of the Contreras, Garland, Buehrle, and Garcia rotation. First of all you get Garland at home and Buehrle who is a more experienced capable pitcher on the road.

Even though I agree with you guys you set up your rotation to win as quick as possible, Buehrle in game 7 comforts me much more then Garland in game 7. Oh well hopefully it won't go that far. I wouldn't mind seeing, the four of them just once this series.

ChicagoHoosier
10-10-2005, 12:48 PM
I like Buehrle's home record to start game 2 rather than game 3. Who cares about how Yankee stadium is set up. Go with what works. I like this rotation and also think Game 7 goes to Freddy OR Garland, whoever pitched better in the first game.

But there won't be a game 7. Sox win in 5.

SouthSide_HitMen
10-10-2005, 01:05 PM
Grrrreat. So WSI now has a 'Simulated Game' Watch... :redneck

Actually a few people are complaining about Daver's "Pick to click" winner in the simulated games as well.

SoxFan76
10-10-2005, 04:07 PM
Why do the sox have to have so much pitching. This stinks.

:cool:

kwa
10-10-2005, 07:22 PM
I live in NY, so I just saw this on my local news:

Joe Torre just annonced that Jarrett Wright will be activated for the ALCS and will pitch game one (if they get there). The Yankees are flying him to Chicago tonight to "hopefully pitch tomorrow"