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ChiSoxKB83
10-08-2005, 10:47 PM
Did anyone else watch the Astros/Braves game? A few times the announcers said they thought the Astros had the best top 3 starting pitchers in the playoffs. At first I wondered if they were just talking about in the NL, but then they mentioned that their opinion included they were better than the White Sox. I just thought they were interesting remarks. Would make an interesting WS ...

Contreras 15-7 3.61 era
Buehrle 16-8 3.12
Garcia 14-8 3.87
Garland 18-10 3.5

Clemens 13-8 1.87 era
Pettitte 17-9 2.39
Oswalt 20-12 2.94

SoxFan76
10-08-2005, 10:57 PM
You have to take into account the Astros pitch in the NL, but I don't want to take anything away from that staff. The Astros have some killer pitching.

TimoPerez
10-08-2005, 10:58 PM
This is a nifty little article which has a small portion on the pitching staffs of the White Sox and Astros. Too bad the author is a FOBB.:tongue: I happen to know that the author predicts the White Sox to win the World Series so don't take any negativity in the article as treason.

http://amazinz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11967&

It is usually pretty accurate to take off approximately one run from an ERA when going from the AL to the NL. I don't think all of the Sox starters would have ERA's under 3 and I don't think Kevin Millwood would have an ERA under 2 so I guess that isn't too accurate. I will say that the ERA's would be very similar between the Sox and Astros starters. The difference is the White Sox have more good starters, especially when considering El Duque in the playoffs.

TheOldRoman
10-09-2005, 03:55 AM
You have to take into account the Astros pitch in the NL, but I don't want to take anything away from that staff. The Astros have some killer pitching.
Yep.
It would be a very interesting series if we played the Astros. Clemens has been off lately, so who knows if he will be able to get it back together before the end of the playoffs. As great as he has been throughout his career, he has never been really "clutch" in the playoffs. He has never won a game 7, and I think he has started 4. I am not all that worried about Clemens.

One thing we have to remember when facing the Astros: it is an absurdly short trip from homeplate to the left field foul pole. Iguchi, Konerko, Crede, Rowand, Dye, and Uribe will be DROOLING when they step to the plate and see that "315" marker. Think: Green Monster, only half as high (19 ft). Our right handed dominant lineup could really mash in that park.

johnny bench
10-09-2005, 07:52 AM
The difference is the White Sox have more good starters, especially when considering El Duque in the playoffs.

I agree with you that the WS do have more good starters than Houston. That's a big reason why the WS made the playoffs. Don't matter in a 7 game series, though.

WSoxFanForever
10-09-2005, 09:13 AM
In all honesty, I think it's a compliment to be compared to the Astros staff, but I think it's too close to call. Clemens hasn't been himself, but Garland has been struggling too. It would be a dream WS for me.

SOXSINCE'70
10-09-2005, 12:52 PM
Clemens,Oswalt and Pettitte don't have to pitch to a DH.
If they were in the A.L.,those ERA's would be at least a run higher,
IMHO.If you're a pitcher,would you rather face an(almost) automatic
out batting 9th or a proven hitter like Vlad Guererro (SP?),Paul Konerko,
Travis Hafner or Richie Sexson batting anywhere from the 3 hole
to the 6 hole??
You decide.

Ol' No. 2
10-09-2005, 01:04 PM
This is a nifty little article which has a small portion on the pitching staffs of the White Sox and Astros. Too bad the author is a FOBB.:tongue: I happen to know that the author predicts the White Sox to win the World Series so don't take any negativity in the article as treason.

http://amazinz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11967&

It is usually pretty accurate to take off approximately one run from an ERA when going from the AL to the NL. I don't think all of the Sox starters would have ERA's under 3 and I don't think Kevin Millwood would have an ERA under 2 so I guess that isn't too accurate. I will say that the ERA's would be very similar between the Sox and Astros starters. The difference is the White Sox have more good starters, especially when considering El Duque in the playoffs.The AL-NL difference is actually about 0.5 runs per game. But you'd be crazy to make a big deal out of a few tenths. Pitchers just aren't that consistent, and no one has yet won a playoff game by 0.2 runs (except at BP:redneck). I'd call it even among the top 3. It may come down to the 4th starter, and when you count 4 instead of 3, the Sox have an edge.

bigfoot
10-09-2005, 02:01 PM
One also take into account that the statement was made by Steve "Psycho" Lyons, known for showing his ass in more public ways than his mistaken impressions of the "best pitching in MLB"! Wasn't it at first base in Detroit?

robertks61
10-09-2005, 02:35 PM
Which team has a better simulated game ERA?

Clembasbal
10-09-2005, 02:48 PM
No doubt in my mind that I love my White Sox pitching staff and I love them all, but the Astros have a terrific 1-2-3. Clemons I think hit a wall so I do not fear him in the playoffs, but during the season they were the best 1-2-3 in baseball. Right now though I would give the edge to us.

Jerome
10-09-2005, 06:09 PM
This is a nifty little article which has a small portion on the pitching staffs of the White Sox and Astros. Too bad the author is a FOBB.:tongue: I happen to know that the author predicts the White Sox to win the World Series so don't take any negativity in the article as treason.

http://amazinz.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11967&

It is usually pretty accurate to take off approximately one run from an ERA when going from the AL to the NL. I don't think all of the Sox starters would have ERA's under 3 and I don't think Kevin Millwood would have an ERA under 2 so I guess that isn't too accurate. I will say that the ERA's would be very similar between the Sox and Astros starters. The difference is the White Sox have more good starters, especially when considering El Duque in the playoffs.

Not quite sure how the win shares are calculated, all I know is that I will be cheering for any team but Houston in the NL playoffs.

MUsoxfan
10-09-2005, 10:02 PM
As a Sox fan, I have no reason whatsoever to fear any other pitching staffs in baseball.

jfinsocal
10-09-2005, 10:20 PM
You also need to take into consideration that this year, the AL has far better hitters than the NL. These things ebb and flow because the talent pool is the same but for some reason the balance of power has switched dramatically to the AL this year.

No way the Astros pitchers have that ERA if they play in the AL DH or no DH.

goodgame
10-09-2005, 10:26 PM
Yes, the Sox and Stros would be an interesting match up that I'd love to see. The teams as similar both in terms of style of play and history. Both teams, historically, are generally competitive but have fallen short to the power houses in their respective division. Both teams have a history of strong pitching and good defense which they have both returned to this year. Both teams have long suffering fans.

After the game today, the Stros will be the media darlings. Would be very interesting.

Sox will have to really adjust to playing in Minute Maid. I have never been to a ball park that looks so cool on TV yet is so uncomfortable and annoying in person. Many a good right handed hitter has been seduced by that short left field fence. Poor Aaron will probably set the all time series record for hitting into double plays as he reaches for those outside curve balls and tried to take them to left. Of course, that might happen no matter where they play.

TimoPerez
10-09-2005, 11:10 PM
Not quite sure how the win shares are calculated, all I know is that I will be cheering for any team but Houston in the NL playoffs.

Some sabermetric guys consider win shares to be the be all and end all stat, but to say that the Astros have a better pitching staff than the Sox they would have to totally disregard the win shares of the fourth and fifth starters of the respective teams.

Jerome
10-10-2005, 12:18 AM
Some sabermetric guys consider win shares to be the be all and end all stat, but to say that the Astros have a better pitching staff than the Sox they would have to totally disregard the win shares of the fourth and fifth starters of the respective teams.

Yeah and you can't do that in a 7 game series, you need depth, which of course the Sox have. Still, that 1-2-3 makes me very nervous. Go Cards!

JimEdmonds15
10-10-2005, 12:37 AM
I'm not even sure the Astros have a better overall rotation than the Cards.. Sure their top 3 are awesome when they are on but they dont have anyone after that. Afterall the Cards won the ERA title over them but the Astros barely had a better ERA starter wise than the Cards. The Astros pitching is overhyped but then again with Clemens, Pettitte, and Oswalt you cant go wrong with them.

JorgeFabregas
10-10-2005, 12:47 AM
St.Louis has beat down Houston this year (11-5). That type of dominance of a quality division rival was not seen this year outside of the White Sox v. Cleveland unless you count Atlanta v. the Mets (13-5). Sure, anything can happen in the playoffs, but I think St. Louis beating the Astros is a good bet.

IMO, the Cardinals are the most dangerous team the White Sox might face during this run.

Frater Perdurabo
10-10-2005, 09:44 AM
One thing we have to remember when facing the Astros: it is an absurdly short trip from homeplate to the left field foul pole. Iguchi, Konerko, Crede, Rowand, Dye, and Uribe will be DROOLING when they step to the plate and see that "315" marker. Think: Green Monster, only half as high (19 ft). Our right handed dominant lineup could really mash in that park.

That kind of drooling is what the Sox hitters absolutely must NOT do. They need to focus on the ALCS and worry about the NL after they have finished off the Yankees or Angels.

If the Astros and Sox win their respective LCSs, the Sox hitters still should not change their approach just because Houston has a short left field fence. That's how hitters get themselves into bad slumps.

Rooney4Prez56
10-10-2005, 08:12 PM
Clemens, Pettite, and Oswalt are pretty good. It's too bad their team can't score runs. If we meet the Stros in the Series, I'm not worried about them.

Tragg
10-10-2005, 08:59 PM
The Sox and Astros have been similar teams for many years. Start with Bagwell and Thomas being the exact same age to the day, and having remarkably similar offensive career stats (thomas more obp; bagwell more homers).
Houston was killed by ST Louis early in the year, when Houston was 15 below .500. On the other hand, they beat ST L late in the year after St L had clinched.

I'd say the top 3 in the Astros rotation are more "dominating" than our top 3. But we're deeper in the rotation and in the pen.

After we win the WS, will BP explain how they can maintain credibility when their statistical analysis said that the WS champs would win 72 games? Hell, will Sheehan explain how a 99 win team that sweeps round 1 could have been predicted to win 72?

russ99
10-11-2005, 01:00 PM
Yep.
It would be a very interesting series if we played the Astros.

No, it would be my personal hell. The Astros are my second favorite team (not remotely as much as the Sox) and I'd love for them to finally make a World Series, but a week of Sox/Astros games for the championship would do me in. Go Sox!