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View Full Version : Uh-oh! To all those people who would never want to see Manny here...


HotelWhiteSox
10-08-2005, 11:44 AM
Article from the Sun-Times that says he wants to play for Ozzie

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-soxnt08.html

There are a lot of negatives, such as the contract (not to mention rumors of him going to Boras), the attitude, the defensive ineptness, how he watches his HRs, then again, he is one of the best hitters I've ever seen, and if you hang one, he'll kill it. Could you imagine how many he would hit in the Cell? (and thanks to Sox pitching that number was 0 in October :bandance: ). He blows defensively, but our OF is deep, and if we are going to part with Frank (which I hope the organization tries everything it can to avoid!), I guess he could DH. I'm guessing it would also mean goodbye PK?

Discuss.

Unregistered
10-08-2005, 11:45 AM
BOSTON -- If seeing high-priced Manny Ramirez in a White Sox uniform next season sounds far-fetched, consider that the Boston Red Sox outfielder has said he would like it to happen.


According to a source, Ramirez told multiple White Sox players earlier this season that he wanted to play on the South Side and suit up for manager Ozzie Guillen.

I'd take his numbers ANY DAY, but the guy is a Sammy Sosa "I am this team" kinda guy - which doesn't jibe at all with what the Sox are doing. But who knows with Ozzie as his manager?

:dunno:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-soxnt08.html

palehozenychicty
10-08-2005, 11:48 AM
He will never be in a White Sox uniform. He is the antithesis of what the organization is about at the present time. We will resign Frank to an incentive-based deal and take our chances there. He wouldn't bring us down as we try to repeat our spectacular run.

santo=dorf
10-08-2005, 11:50 AM
I thought Guillen is quitting after we win the world series.

Red Barchetta
10-08-2005, 11:51 AM
If anyone reads my Ramirez + Sosa thread in Talking baseball, you will know my thoughts on this...

Personally, I'm tired of the superstar attitude players. The big reason I'm so excited about the SOX this year is that it is a pure team effort lead by guys who choose to act vs. talk. Now I understand this type of team is only assembled every time the stars align, however I think the SOX brass should proceed cautiously in signing big ego/big salary players with Ozzie in charge.

I know many of these players do indeed put up the numbers, i.e. Albert Belle, Barry Bonds, etc., however I would much rather buy two team players with good statistics that can perhaps play 2-3 defensive positions than one highly paid slugger.

Plus I AM counting on Big Frank signing a new 3-year, incentive based contract and having him retire in style on the south side.

TomBradley72
10-08-2005, 11:53 AM
Despite his awesome production...there are many better/smarter ways for the White Sox to $20,000,000 (locking up Garland, Konerko for instance). I think we should basically commit to Frank as our DH next year....and have a decent Plan B in case somehow the foot doesn't heal and he's basically done.

munchman33
10-08-2005, 11:56 AM
Who cares about his attitude. This guy is production beyond production. He makes good hitters around him great. Look at David Ortiz. If the financials could be worked out where the Red Sox pick up like half his salary or so, this is a no-brainer.

TornLabrum
10-08-2005, 12:01 PM
I'd rather see the Sox sign up Mike Piazza as DH than Ramirez.

munchman33
10-08-2005, 12:05 PM
I'd rather see the Sox sign up Mike Piazza as DH than Ramirez.

Piazza is no longer a great player. His numbers with us would be comparable to what Carl did for us this year. If we're lucky. He isn't a quarter the player Manny is.

mdep524
10-08-2005, 12:07 PM
That same article goes on to say Ramirez may be recruiting Scott Boras to be his new agent.



Next.

TornLabrum
10-08-2005, 12:10 PM
Piazza is no longer a great player. His numbers with us would be comparable to what Carl did for us this year. If we're lucky. He isn't a quarter the player Manny is.

Which is the reason I mentioned him. That's how much of a mistake it would be to bring in a me-first guy like Manny Ramirez.

mdep524
10-08-2005, 12:10 PM
I'd rather see the Sox sign up Mike Piazza as DH than Ramirez. Piazza really struck me as a class act during his announcing in the ALDS. I wouldn't mind taking a look at him if the price is right, though Big Frank should be the first option at DH.

Red Barchetta
10-08-2005, 12:11 PM
That same article goes on to say Ramirez may be recruiting Scott Boras to be his new agent.



Next.

...well if that is true, I guess we don't even have to worry about it. Maybe he will go to Detroit.

SoxSideIrish
10-08-2005, 12:11 PM
Piazza is also a quarter the ego-maniac that Manny is. I dont care what kind of numbers he puts up. There is no reason to bring in the kind of disruption/distraction to the clubhouse. Especially when there are big names already on the team that deserve that money more...Konerko, Garland is arbitration eligible I believe, etc.

munchman33
10-08-2005, 12:16 PM
Which is the reason I mentioned him. That's how much of a mistake it would be to bring in a me-first guy like Manny Ramirez.

A year with Ozzie could change that.

gobears1987
10-08-2005, 12:17 PM
I'd take his numbers ANY DAY, but the guy is a Sammy Sosa "I am this team" kinda guy - which doesn't jibe at all with what the Sox are doing. But who knows with Ozzie as his manager?

:dunno:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-soxnt08.htmlI wouldn't mind him because I wouldn't worry about his attitide. Ozzie wouldn't let him have that attitude. He would straighten Manny out and then we'd have his numbers and have NO issues with "clubhouse cancers." Many people saw Carl as a clubhouse cancer, but has he been one under Ozzie. Ozzie is a players manager, but he lets everyone know who's in charge.

skobabe8
10-08-2005, 12:19 PM
Article from the Sun-Times that says he wants to play for Ozzie

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-soxnt08.html

There are a lot of negatives, such as the contract (not to mention rumors of him going to Boras), the attitude, the defensive ineptness, how he watches his HRs, then again, he is one of the best hitters I've ever seen, and if you hang one, he'll kill it. Could you imagine how many he would hit in the Cell? (and thanks to Sox pitching that number was 0 in October :bandance: ). He blows defensively, but our OF is deep, and if we are going to part with Frank (which I hope the organization tries everything it can to avoid!), I guess he could DH. I'm guessing it would also mean goodbye PK?

Discuss.

Sorry to hi-jack, but this little nugget was at the bottom of the article....



JAM SESSION: According to the White Sox, when American League Championship Series tickets went on sale Thursday, there was unprecedented traffic on both phone lines and the Internet. The White Sox said they calculated that at the highest point, 130,000 people were attempting to buy tickets at one time. The 10,000 tickets available for each of the four potential ALCS games at U.S. Cellular Field sold in 48 minutes.

only 10,000 available. Easy to see why so many of us were shut out.

JB98
10-08-2005, 12:20 PM
I think Ramirez would clash with Ozzie because he doesn't hustle. Guillen was always pissed at CLee for not running the bases hard. Ramirez makes CLee look like Pete Rose.

Frankly, I can't stand Ramirez. He's a great hitter, but I think I would tire of his act pretty quickly.

Huisj
10-08-2005, 12:22 PM
Sorry to hi-jack, but this little nugget was at the bottom of the article....



JAM SESSION: According to the White Sox, when American League Championship Series tickets went on sale Thursday, there was unprecedented traffic on both phone lines and the Internet. The White Sox said they calculated that at the highest point, 130,000 people were attempting to buy tickets at one time. The 10,000 tickets available for each of the four potential ALCS games at U.S. Cellular Field sold in 48 minutes.

only 10,000 available. Easy to see why so many of us were shut out.

That's crazy. There aren't that many season ticket holders.

TomBradley72
10-08-2005, 12:24 PM
Who cares about his attitude.

Attitude and team chemistry is EVERYTHING when it comes to the White Sox. Maybe not other teams....but with this team: absolutely. We're going to increase our payroll 33% for one guy? No way.

Daver
10-08-2005, 12:25 PM
That's crazy. There aren't that many season ticket holders.

MLB gets blocks of tickets to those games for players families and VIP's.

Chicken Dinner
10-08-2005, 12:25 PM
It won't happen.....................enough said!:gulp:

MRKARNO
10-08-2005, 12:26 PM
That's crazy. There aren't that many season ticket holders.

The MLB gets some, but the biggie is that season ticket holders get the privilige of buying extra tickets to the game (I think it's up to four for every game). After the regular season tickets are alotted, the extra tickets allotted, the MLB-owned tickets allotted, tickets for the families of the players, the ones the scalpers get their hands on etc, there just aren't a whole lot of tickets left. It's really a surprise to me that there are even that many left after all of those factors are taken into consideration.

Ol' No. 2
10-08-2005, 12:30 PM
MLB gets blocks of tickets to those games for players families and VIP's.Full season ticket holders also get the option to purchase an equal number of additional tickets to the ALDS and ALCS. Frankly, I'm surprised there were 10,000.

Domeshot17
10-08-2005, 12:31 PM
Usually, the Sox are no Boras esque, but Boras or any new agent was being brought in to make a trade happen from what I have heard. That being said

We have all seen Manny disrespect the game with his home run "pimps", but what does manny have that sammy doesnt? a Ring

His club house seems to rally around him in Boston

We took AJ, a club house cancer, and he transformed this team.

Manny, if he really wanted to play here, would basically have to agree to be broken in like all of the former loud mouths were by Ozzie.

That being said, for anyone who was scared of the offensive lack of production, There is no greater answer than Manny. He would replace Carl as DH, probably could be had for Anderson-Rogowski-Young-Honel type package, so it is something to highly think about.

but, that being said, lets worry about the off season in 4 weeks

VenturaSoxFan23
10-08-2005, 12:46 PM
AJ was only a "cancer" in San Francisco. The Twins loved him. If it wasn't for his year in the Bay Area, the Sox would have had to pay a lot more for his services.

I agree with worrying about next season in November. I'd rather plan a ticker-tape parade than refurbishing the team.

beckett21
10-08-2005, 12:53 PM
I think there's always room for a .300/40/140 guy in the lineup. I'd welcome him with open arms. :cool:

getonbckthr
10-08-2005, 01:20 PM
lets face it thomas and el duque will not be here next year thats 20 million dollars. everett is another like 4 million. right there is 24 million. if we give paulie the 12 million he will want that is only 3 million more than he makes now leaving us with 21 for manny.

1)pods
2)gooch
3)paulie
4)man-ram
5)dye
6)aj
7)rowand
8)crede
9)uribe

WOW!!!!!

VenturaSoxFan23
10-08-2005, 01:24 PM
I'd give Jermaine Dye & Aaron Rowand a raise. :D:

mrs. hendu
10-08-2005, 01:32 PM
Manny would have to stop watching his homeruns before starting to run for me to not get annoyed by him.:rolleyes:

Plus:
...members of White Sox management said Ramirez's baggage was capable of damaging team chemistry. Ramirez is the kind of high-profile, large-ego player whom general manager Ken Williams avoided when putting together this season's roster.

Tragg
10-08-2005, 01:52 PM
Even with a good attitude, he isn't worth 20 mill.
Piazza? downside of a career, more interested in broadcasting.

beckett21
10-08-2005, 01:58 PM
Even with a good attitude, he isn't worth 20 mill.
Piazza? downside of a career, more interested in broadcasting.

Glad to see you're OK and things haven't changed a bit, Tragg! :redneck


:)

beckett21
10-08-2005, 02:01 PM
Manny would have to stop watching his homeruns before starting to run for me to not get annoyed by him.:rolleyes:

Plus:
...members of White Sox management said Ramirez's baggage was capable of damaging team chemistry. Ramirez is the kind of high-profile, large-ego player whom general manager Ken Williams avoided when putting together this season's roster.

I would certainly be a LOT less annoyed if he was admiring his work in a WHITE Sox uniform.

We're talking about one of the most feared hitters in the game today, folks. I agree that we have bigger fish to fry right now and this talk will be more appropriate in November, but Manny makes any lineup he is in better. You may not like the man, but you can't argue with his production.

Baggage or no, I'll take him every day of the week and twice on Sunday. :cool:

goodsy72
10-08-2005, 02:37 PM
Yes Manny is an inhuman offensive machine. But that being said I don't think Kenny would want him. I think Kenny believes he's stumbled on to his own winning formula for building a solid team. Starting pitching first, bullpen second, take whats left over and fill as many holes as possible, and get some brilliantly crazy goofball nut to lead them and be the glue that holds them together. I think right now Kenny and the Sox staff have the best track record for finding the best talent available at the best price, ie, Iguchi, Uribe, Scotty Pods, Jose C,El Duque, AJ , Dye, Loiaza, Crazy Carl, the list goes on (yes he's made some stinkers too). I think if he sticks with what he tried to do this year in building future Sox teams, we may be the dominating team in the central for many years to come. I think when Kenny writes his own book he should make Billy Beane his Chump. Why blow all that money on ONE GUY even if its Manny, it's not worth it. Thats exactly what we avoided when we didn't resign Mags , and traded C Lee, and look what happened. Why on earth would he want to go back to that and get Manny. Come on not gonna happen.

JorgeFabregas
10-08-2005, 03:03 PM
Would I object to him being on the White Sox? No. For $20 mil? Money poorly spent.

HotelWhiteSox
10-08-2005, 03:03 PM
I don't know the money info, but the pitching is basically set for next year (Contreras, Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, McCarthy), and if what getonbckthr said is feasible, I do it in a heartbeat. Cleveland is only getting better, and I see the Sox and Cleveland as very similar, butting adding Ramirez would easily give us the edge and would be nice with their pitching. Then again, I think I/we are forgetting that we'd need to give up something and hope that they would pick up part of his money.

Pulaski
10-08-2005, 04:36 PM
I'd take his numbers ANY DAY, but the guy is a Sammy Sosa "I am this team" kinda guy - which doesn't jibe at all with what the Sox are doing. But who knows with Ozzie as his manager?

:dunno:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-soxnt08.html

AND THAT SUMS IT UP! See you later Manny!

munchman33
10-08-2005, 04:55 PM
Would I object to him being on the White Sox? No. For $20 mil? Money poorly spent.

No way we'd trade for him if we had to pick up more than half the salary. Manny at 10 million? Nobody would argue with that.

Ol' No. 2
10-08-2005, 05:00 PM
No way we'd trade for him if we had to pick up more than half the salary. Manny at 10 million? Nobody would argue with that.But to do that you'd have to give up waaaayyy to much in trade. I just can't see any realistic scenario in which this could ever be a good deal.

sas1974
10-08-2005, 05:16 PM
But to do that you'd have to give up waaaayyy to much in trade. I just can't see any realistic scenario in which this could ever be a good deal.

This is the biggest factor really, in addition to the afore mentioned attitude problems. Manny ISN'T a free agent, so who are you willing to part with in order to get him here?

slavko
10-08-2005, 05:32 PM
I think we're all getting Albert Belle fever here. Or is it 1960 fever (trade a bunch of good youngsters for a slugger). This money would be better spent taking care of your resignable winners and Big Frank, for whom it would be a slap in the face.

The_Floridian
10-08-2005, 05:36 PM
This is the biggest factor really, in addition to the afore mentioned attitude problems. Manny ISN'T a free agent, so who are you willing to part with in order to get him here?

This is the big point.

If we picked up Manny, SOMEONE has to pay that huge contract, the money of which could be better spent (on our end) on more players including the ones we have.

The only way Boston would be willing to take on a large portion of Manny's contract is if they got something really, REALLY good in return (McCarthy, for example...and not just him.) You have to look at this logically. HE IS NOT JUST GOING TO FALL INTO OUR LAP. We must pay either in money or personnel, and he is going to cost a fortune either way.

You are either going to pay a lot of money to get Manny, or you are going to give up some great players and still pay a good deal of money.

All talk about his inhuman numbers as a plus or his attitude as a minus is out the window. This is simple economics.

No matter how you work the deal (logically) Manny is not worth the price tag.

JohnBasedowYoda
10-08-2005, 05:41 PM
no!

SOXSINCE'70
10-08-2005, 05:49 PM
That same article goes on to say Ramirez may be recruiting Scott Boras to be his new agent.



Next.


:borass:
"My client,Manny Ramirez,wants a 20 year,800 zillion dollar contract.
Hey,I just want what's good for my client.I am an *******".:angry: :angry:

Optipessimism
10-08-2005, 05:50 PM
Manny ISN'T a free agent, so who are you willing to part with in order to get him here?

Rowand + Duque + Tracey + Marte + Gload + Sweeney + Adkins + Bajenaru + Munoz??

I'm guessing the only guys that KW would want to be untouchable in our system would be Anderson (because he could start next year in CF), Young (because if he continues to fastly improve he could be called up next season), McCarthy (he starts next year), and Gio (because if he continues his rise I see KW calling him up from AA next year over Diaz/Munoz in AAA).

I think the biggest problem would be salary and I think this is also a huge pipe dream, but he would make our lineup very very very dangerous. Also, he would allow us tons of flexibility in that we could DH him and let PK go to make a push at a cheaper 1B like Overbay or Tracy, or KW could move Dye to first and get another OF.

Just a thought.... A trade for Manny including Rowand would open up 1B for Dye. Let PK go, then sign Jacque Jones for RF (who IMO gets about 6mil/year or so after the down year he's had, especially against LHP). Then we get this lineup:

L Pods LF
R Iguchi 2B
R Dye 1B
R Ramirez DH
L Jones RF
R Anderson CF
L Pierzynski C
R Crede 3B
R Uribe SS

asindc
10-08-2005, 05:52 PM
I say no, and I like Manny as a player. Aside from the economics issues the previous poster laid out (correctly, IMO), I am a firm believer that you don't mess with chemistry. One of the reasons I was so confident about beating the Red Sox was because you had Shilling being Shilling as well as Manny being Manny, plus Renteria regretting signing with them and several players who were potential FAs at the end of a very trying year.

No, chemistry is very difficult to develop and very easy to lose. Our money is better spent elsewhere. Besides, no way Bosox even starts the conversation unless BMac is involved, to which I say, Hell No!!

RedPinStripes
10-08-2005, 05:57 PM
How about let Piazza and Manny be someone elses problem? I have no problem with Piazza personally, but he's no frank thomas.

mike squires
10-08-2005, 05:58 PM
The way the market is today I say hell no. I see so many teams tied up in big money deals and long term contracts that they regret later on...Sammy and Arod are first that come to mind. We traded Lee and let Ordonez go for a reason...that's not the direction we are going in.

balke
10-08-2005, 06:21 PM
Manny can be my DH any day of the week. I love Thomas, and if he can play again the job is his. But for now he can't, and the Sox would be monstrous with a DH like Manny Ramirez.

RedPinStripes
10-08-2005, 06:38 PM
He makes around 15 mill doesn't he? No chance. I wouldn't pay that for a guy Boston has been trying to get rid of.

JB98
10-08-2005, 07:06 PM
He makes around 15 mill doesn't he? No chance. I wouldn't pay that for a guy Boston has been trying to get rid of.

And you raise an interesting point with that last sentence. If Ramirez is so great, then why has Boston tried to get rid of him on multiple occasions? Yeah, he's got a big contract, but that team is a cash cow. They can afford him. There are obviously other reasons they would be willing, or even eager, to part with him.

fquaye149
10-08-2005, 07:17 PM
And you raise an interesting point with that last sentence. If Ramirez is so great, then why has Boston tried to get rid of him on multiple occasions? Yeah, he's got a big contract, but that team is a cash cow. They can afford him. There are obviously other reasons they would be willing, or even eager, to part with him.

a.) his contract is an albatross. However, to get rid of the 20 million, they might pick up 5-7 million of it just to be rid of the other 13-15. Especially if we threw in a starting pitcher (of which we have six).

b.) Manny doesn't want to play in Boston. The Boston media hates him. He hates Boston. Period. It reminds me of another player who had a "bad attitude" and a showoffy home run trot. A player who is playing DH for us now. A player who says that Boston is a surprisingly racist city (something that most people I've talked to tend to agree with).

c.) Manny is hispanic and he would find a lot more support in Chicago, with Ozzie and his coterie of spanish-speaking players. Now that Pedro is gone, there is Ortiz and that's about it in Boston. Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, but look at all the hispanic players we've picked up since 2004 and look at how well most of them have performed...most of them above past levels.

d.) The Red Sox are going to lose Johnny Damon to free agency. He will probably go to New York. They have just lost three games in a row to a team with a fantastic defensive centerfielder. A lot of people have said that the Red Sox and their fans are very dissatisfied with the brand of defense Damon has been playing, and rightly so because Damon is BRUTAL. I love our centerfielder, and especially in the midst of this fantastic season wouldn't want anyone else. However, the White Sox have a fantastic defensive Centerfielder in the minors who is one of baseball's top prospects. I can smell some potential dealings in the works after this season is over.

Look - the fact is, we won't likely see Manny on the south side. We'll probably have much ado, but in the end it will all be about nothing. However, Manny is one of the greatest hitters in the game, one of the greatest hitters of this decade and he makes everyone around him in the order better. Period.

And to all the people who are wary of the superstar with the me first attitude remember: Jack Parkman took the Chicago White Sox all the way to the ALCS...and last I checked there weren't any hot prospects in the AL fresh from the California Penal Leagues.

Flight #24
10-08-2005, 10:17 PM
This is bordering on ridiculous. Remember - the reason why KW restructured the team as he did was not because he thought it was bad to have highly paid stars, it was because he thought it was better to have solid players all around instead of highly paid stars mixed with chumps. At this point, you have solid players all around. You also have a fairly poor free agent market, unless Joe Randa-esque players excite you. What this team lacks is an impact hitter, and there ain't many of them out there. Carlos Delgado's nice, but he's no Manny Ramirez. And chemistry-wise, as much of a flake as Manny is, he's not a cancer in the clubhouse from anything I've heard.

The Sox have their payroll well-structured. They can resign everyone and keep the team together with about a 10mil payroll increase. If you're willing to raise it another 10-15 based on playoff revenues and the additional anticipated attendance bump from that, you can add the one thing this team could possibly be lacking - an MVP caliber hitter. Let Everett's $4.5m go and add Manny's $19M.

In terms of cost - they were willing to give him away for free to anyone willing to assume the contract. So I doubt significantly that it'll cost you a ton unless you're getting a lot of cash in return. If you're not willing to go the whole $19M, then trade away some minor league talent and get some cash back. Replacing Rowand(traded)+Everett(declined)+Sweeney+Honel with Anderson+Manny at an affordable price is a no-brainer. And that's no disrespect to Aaron.

Is it likely? No. But to say that it wouldn't be a significant upgrade is ludicrous, IMO.

Flight #24
10-08-2005, 10:19 PM
And you raise an interesting point with that last sentence. If Ramirez is so great, then why has Boston tried to get rid of him on multiple occasions? Yeah, he's got a big contract, but that team is a cash cow. They can afford him. There are obviously other reasons they would be willing, or even eager, to part with him.

They had FA pitchers and now have some key FA hitters. They don't have impact guys ready to contribute and don't want to take a step back to truly rebuild. Thus they can only replace their outgoing guys with new FAs. That's expensive, meaning they need to cut somewhere else and Manny's the best way to do that since he's so expensive.

The Sox, on the other hand, are relatively well set financially, and may be positioned to make a major payroll bump after this season and a deep playoff run. That makes adding an impact guy, even one with a ridiculous contract, feasible.

beckett21
10-08-2005, 10:26 PM
This is bordering on ridiculous. Remember - the reason why KW restructured the team as he did was not because he thought it was bad to have highly paid stars, it was because he thought it was better to have solid players all around instead of highly paid stars mixed with chumps. At this point, you have solid players all around. You also have a fairly poor free agent market, unless Joe Randa-esque players excite you. What this team lacks is an impact hitter, and there ain't many of them out there. Carlos Delgado's nice, but he's no Manny Ramirez. And chemistry-wise, as much of a flake as Manny is, he's not a cancer in the clubhouse from anything I've heard.

The Sox have their payroll well-structured. They can resign everyone and keep the team together with about a 10mil payroll increase. If you're willing to raise it another 10-15 based on playoff revenues and the additional anticipated attendance bump from that, you can add the one thing this team could possibly be lacking - an MVP caliber hitter. Let Everett's $4.5m go and add Manny's $19M.

In terms of cost - they were willing to give him away for free to anyone willing to assume the contract. So I doubt significantly that it'll cost you a ton unless you're getting a lot of cash in return. If you're not willing to go the whole $19M, then trade away some minor league talent and get some cash back. Replacing Rowand(traded)+Everett(declined)+Sweeney+Honel with Anderson+Manny at an affordable price is a no-brainer. And that's no disrespect to Aaron.

Is it likely? No. But to say that it wouldn't be a significant upgrade is ludicrous, IMO.

Yeah, great. But Manny only has ONE World Series MVP award, and that was way back in 2004. Not to mention he can't run while wearing batting gloves. I say pass.

:redneck

mrs. hendu
10-08-2005, 10:34 PM
I would certainly be a LOT less annoyed if he was admiring his work in a WHITE Sox uniform.



Well, sure, but it's just so hard to imagine him in this ballclub. His comment came as surprise to me and I haven't digested it yet. :?:

beckett21
10-08-2005, 10:41 PM
Well sure, but it's just hard for me to imagine him in this ballclub. His whole comment came as a surprise to me and I haven't digested it yet. :?:

Obviously we're putting the cart before the horse here. Hard to argue with the team as-is, of course. It's fun to speculate though.

If you have a chance to add one of the premier sluggers in the game, in his prime, it has to be given serious consideration. His presence in the lineup would be fearsome. I do think that he would fit in much better on our Sox due to the strong Latin presence here, FWIW. Who knows?

He is an aloof character, but he does not strike me as a disruptive force. Except to opposing pitchers. :redneck

Depending upon the other ramifications, I'd take my chances--next season. Make no mistake--I LOVE this team just the way it is right now. No complaints, just wishful thinking. :smile:

mrs. hendu
10-08-2005, 10:42 PM
His presence in the lineup would be fearsome. I do think that he would fit in much better on our Sox due to the strong Latin presence here, FWIW.

You might have a point there. I'd be worried though that he wouldn't fit with our style of playing, Ozzie ball etc.

tifosiv122
10-08-2005, 10:43 PM
This is a good move for Manny, he is tired of playing second fiddle to Ortis.

On the other hand, I can't think of a worse player, well maybe Palmero or Bonds, to bring to this team to kill our 2006 chances...he will bring down our way of playing.

Erik

beckett21
10-08-2005, 10:50 PM
You've got a point there.

Manny is an enigma. He is a tough character to figure out. But he does not seem malicious in a Barry-Bonds kind of way. I do think he is miserable in Boston.

He's a native of the Bronx, and I'm sure he'd love to play for the Yankees. He's said it before, actually. I just don't see any way on Earth that Boston would trade him there. They would probably pay his salary and let him rot on the bench for the duration of his contract before they did that.

The Mets are probably his most likely destination. But if he says he wants to play for Ozzie...that needs to be investigated a little further. :cool:

TornLabrum
10-08-2005, 10:58 PM
Manny is an enigma. He is a tough character to figure out. But he does not seem malicious in a Barry-Bonds kind of way. I do think he is miserable in Boston.

He's a native of the Bronx, and I'm sure he'd love to play for the Yankees. He's said it before, actually. I just don't see any way on Earth that Boston would trade him there. They would probably pay his salary and let him rot on the bench for the duration of his contract before they did that.

The Mets are probably his most likely destination. But if he says he wants to play for Ozzie...that needs to be investigated a little further. :cool:

Boston is going to want a lot for him. Maybe enough to gut the team we already have. Especially if we want them to pick up a sizable portion of his salary.

I think maybe we should remain neutral about his supposed problems in the clubhouse. Remember that Carl Everett was regarded as the devil incarnate by the Boston media.

beckett21
10-08-2005, 11:06 PM
Boston is going to want a lot for him. Maybe enough to gut the team we already have. Especially if we want them to pick up a sizable portion of his salary.

I think maybe we should remain neutral about his supposed problems in the clubhouse. Remember that Carl Everett was regarded as the devil incarnate by the Boston media.

I think that the biggest question will be, what exactly are the Red Sox looking for. I certainly wouldn't want to see the team gutted.

Realistically, I have to agree it probably will never happen. The Red Sox are probably looking to dump as much of his salary as possible, i.e. all of it. I can't see the White Sox picking up all of that contract under any circumstance. It is fun to dream about having his bat in the lineup though. :D:

antitwins13
10-09-2005, 12:09 AM
Hey I wouldn't mind seeing an actual .300 hitter on the White Sox!

flo-B-flo
10-09-2005, 12:55 AM
MR would be a great addition because OZ would make it that way. You can kill Reggie Jackson for the watching home run thing.

getonbckthr
10-09-2005, 01:45 AM
why does everyone talk about the cash issue? there is no issue there. lets do some math shall we:

konerkos estimated raise 3-4 million
manny salary 20 million 20+4=24 million.

everett's contract 4.5
el duque (he wont be back) 9
thomas (buyout) 12 million
marte (he wont be here) 1.5 so.....12+9+4.5+1.5=27 million

27 mil-24 mil=3 million dollars less than last years payroll. now figure they plan on adding around 10 million dollars on arbitration eligible contracts. garland will probably demand about 6 million. so:

3mil(remaining from manny)+10 mil(est. salary increase)=13-6(garland)=7 mil
we would have 7 million to build our bench and get a lefty reliever. plus boston doesn't have to give us dime.

fquaye149
10-09-2005, 03:17 AM
Boston is going to want a lot for him. Maybe enough to gut the team we already have. Especially if we want them to pick up a sizable portion of his salary.

I think maybe we should remain neutral about his supposed problems in the clubhouse. Remember that Carl Everett was regarded as the devil incarnate by the Boston media.

The same Boston that put him on waivers two years ago is going to want a lot for him?

Maybe. However, I think the only way we have to pay through the nose is if we're seeing a money for money deal. That is, a Rowand+Honel+Sweeney for Manny+10 million/year deal

Domeshot17
10-09-2005, 03:39 AM
Well, a few things are driving me nuts with peoples responses

JERMAINE DYE WILL NOT BE AN EVERYDAY FIRST BASEMAN, JUST BECAUSE HE PLAYED ONE GAME THERE, NOT HAVING TO MAKE A HARD PLAY ON TOP, DOESNT MAKE HIM THE ANSWER

Now think of Bostons needs

(CF) Damon is leaving: We send Anderson ( who I love, but We are STACKED with OF talent in the minors, and If we are adding O, I will take AROWS Glove), Also, Dye could go, and Nixon move to CF, both are above average with the Glove,.

(3b) Crede would not be dealt, no real help there

(2b) Willie Harris, not a key to this deal, BUT, he could lead off for them

(1b) Gload/Rogowski

(SP) El Duque, think Theo and Francona wouldnt jump on him after game 3, and all his post season success against them

(rp) Damaso and Hermanson

I would hate to see Hermanson go, but with Jenks, We dont need a closer. Bullpen still is cored on Jenks Cotts Politte and the improving Vizciano, Bajaneru may be the answer as a long reliever, and Jose Mesa will be on the free agent market, along with others.

So my package is Damaso Hermanson el Duque harris Anderson
Rogowski/Gload ( Combo of 3-6)

OR Dye Damaso Hermanson El Duque Harris (3-5)
BIG LOSSES: Anderson/dye, Hermanson
Margianl: Rest

Paulie has to come back, that simple. lets say, worst case, hes back for 5 x 12

Lets figure Garland is the only arb player getting a huge raise, but KW loves to avoid that, so I see him getting 3 years 5-6 mil per
AJ gets 3 years 3 per
Crede may get a 3 year 2 mil per deal

So Figure, with the 3 mil buy out of Thomas, players like Ben Davis off the books, Elqduqe, Carl,Damaso ( maybe Dye) Timo hopefully, We are looking at 13-14 mil to play with if we resign PK.

( I know he is the most attractive, but Rowand is out poster boy, I dont see him being dealt, HUGE PR HIT in Chicago, I cant think of the rappers name, but Rowand IMHO is a "chicago-an until chicago ends")

Adding Manny pushes the payroll 10 mil more. This will happen more than likely if we fall short of a world series, than if we win it. If we win it, Reinsdorf closes the check book and keeps this team in tact almost to a T, if we fall short, I think he pushes it trying to get back.

With so many problems, I wouldnt be incredibly suprised to See Theo grab guys like Rogowski, Anderson etc. who will be more than ready in 2 years.

I know people will be insane about losing some of these guys, but if we want Boston to take on some of mannys money, it will cost us.

Looking though, who mentioned is not replaceable? Damaso is gone to Cotts as the goto lefty, El Duque, as much as I love him, is gone to Bmac, Dye/Anderson interchangable, Hermanson hasnt been used almost at all because of BIg Bobby, Resigning Paulie if it happens means makes no room for gload or rogowski, PLUS

Boston fills a ton of holes, and is able to run at AJ Burnett and the other big name free agents.

2 things strike me on manny. The guy is a winner. KW, above all, Wants Winners. He may be a handful, BUT, he isnt Sammy Sosa. He is not a guy that actually BRINGS A TEAM DOWN. He was a winner with Cleveland, and a winner with Boston.

He is miserable in Boston, and on the east coast in general. Minyana has a total love fest with him on the mets, But him getting a new Agent might actually be to help PICK his destination. Signing Boras is not to sign a FA deal, wont happen, its 2 things-help get him a trade he wants and POSSIBLY to renegotiate his contract to get the same money but spread out so he can be dealt. Manny has this thing about playing hard when he loves a city, and I think he could be happy in Chicago for 3 years.

I guess, as much as I sit here and bash him for disrespecting the game by pimping home runs, I am more getting incredibly excited about the thought of Paulie Manny combo. Paulie and Manny would be almost as dangerous as Ortiz Manny, Paulies numbers go WAY UP hitting behind manny or infront, just as Ortiz did in Boston.

Truthfully, right now our only hole as a team is offensive consistency, adding Manny, that would make this team unreal. He has never been connected to steroids, he would be a HUGE draw, and not even cleveland could compete with us then. This team just does not go into an offensive funk with Manny here, The guy is a horse.

I know i said i would not like to think about this until November, but with the off day, and the extreme negatives im hearing on him, I just want to say, KW, if this can happen, and not cost Bmac and Paulie, Make it happen.

Flight #24
10-09-2005, 09:33 AM
why does everyone talk about the cash issue? there is no issue there. lets do some math shall we:

konerkos estimated raise 3-4 million
manny salary 20 million 20+4=24 million.

everett's contract 4.5
el duque (he wont be back) 9
thomas (buyout) 12 million
marte (he wont be here) 1.5 so.....12+9+4.5+1.5=27 million

27 mil-24 mil=3 million dollars less than last years payroll. now figure they plan on adding around 10 million dollars on arbitration eligible contracts. garland will probably demand about 6 million. so:

3mil(remaining from manny)+10 mil(est. salary increase)=13-6(garland)=7 mil
we would have 7 million to build our bench and get a lefty reliever. plus boston doesn't have to give us dime.

Your #s are way off. Duque makes $4.5m/yr and has a guaranteed contract, so to save that you'd have to trade him (and after his gutsy performance, that could be a questionable decision), Frank was at 8 this year and has the $3.5M buyout (net $4.5). There's also about $10M in raises to players under contract.

The "real" savings from Frank, Carl, Shingo, Timo, Marte are $14M. That covers raises to players under contract plus a 2-3mil raise for Paulie and a bit more. Garland+AJ should go for combined 5-6M in raises on long-term deals or arbitration. That means fitting Manny in will require a total pay bump of around $20-25M.

If they're applying "excess profit" from this year to next year's budget, that's 100% doable. If they're relying on only the projected attendance increase for 2006, it's possible, but unlikely.

oldcomiskey
10-09-2005, 09:55 AM
Who cares about his attitude. This guy is production beyond production. He makes good hitters around him great. Look at David Ortiz. If the financials could be worked out where the Red Sox pick up like half his salary or so, this is a no-brainer.


If youve got a chance to get Manny without tearing up your core then you get Manny.