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Randar68
10-06-2005, 05:15 PM
I haven't really seen this discussed, and to us fans it's generally a secondary thought, but anyone done a little math to see what kind of dough these playoffs bring in?

ALDS ticket-prices:
Lower Deck$55http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/trans.gifLower Deck Res.$40http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/trans.gifBleachers$40http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/trans.gifUpper Deck Box$40http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/trans.gifUpper Deck Res.$30

assuming even numbers of each type (I know there are not), average ticket price comes to about 40 dollars per ticket.

So far:
1) 2 home games with about 40,500 fans at average ticket price of approximately $40 = $3.24 million
2) I'll approximate parking as 6,250 cars per game @ $20 per car, that's another $250,000
3) Add consessions, which I'll estimate at $15 dollars per person @ 81,000 total fans = $1.215 million

Just these easy-to-figure numbers seem to indicate approximately 4.7 million in direct revenues through just 2 games (remember that revenues do not equate directly to profits). As I think I've underestimated a little, we'll just call it 5 million in revenues.

This is, of course, not factoring in the HUGE increase in merchandise profits and sales which have gone through the roof.


Now, factor in a possible ALCS visit, and assuming just 2 home games totalling 81,000 fans at the increased average ticket cost of ~$78, + $15 consessions and parking, and the ALCS visit guarantees you about $7.75 million in additional revenue!

Again, I think I'm probably underestimating things here and also not including anything like all the private suites, terrace suites, stadium club, bullpen sports bar, patio area, etc etc etc.

I think hosting just 4 home games (2 ALDS and 2 ALCS) would net approximately 15 million in additional revenue.

I don't know what the team's gross margins are on these types of expenses, but between tickets, consessions, parking, merchandise, etc... I'm guessing this playoff run would probably result in a 15 million dollar boost in PROFITS that I would hope could be reinvested in this team over the next 2-3 years.

I think that would give us the flexibility to make a legit run at some expensive players through FA or trades to help improve the lineup in 2006...

:bandance:

MRKARNO
10-06-2005, 05:19 PM
It would be nice if we could get Brian Giles on the South Side.....Really, really nice.

MUsoxfan
10-06-2005, 05:25 PM
I do believe MLB gets a piece of that pie.

Randar68
10-06-2005, 05:29 PM
I do believe MLB gets a piece of that pie.

On attendance and in-game revenues? You sure about that? They get some of the merchandise fees and broadcast rights... they get more beyond that?

MUsoxfan
10-06-2005, 05:34 PM
On attendance and in-game revenues? You sure about that? They get some of the merchandise fees and broadcast rights... they get more beyond that?

Ticket prices, as set by Major League Baseball, are: Lower Deck Box $100; Lower Deck Reserved/Bleachers/Upper Deck Box $75; and Upper Deck Reserved $65.

From the whitesox.com press release. That leads me believe that MLB gets a piece of the ticket price and possibly some parking revenue because parking is $20 now

Daver
10-06-2005, 05:37 PM
MLB takes a chunk of ALL playoff revenue for the shared revenue pot.

kevingrt
10-06-2005, 05:50 PM
Yep Daver is CORRECT! Beat me to it dammit.

ewokpelts
10-06-2005, 05:53 PM
MLB divies up the ticket monet between the playoff clubs.

DS= all 8 teams, PLUS the two non-wild card 2nd place teams(a practise dating back to the "1st division" days)

CS = all 4 teams

WS = both teams

The money is usually taken from the first home game for each team. I think the rest goes to mlb inc.

Gene

BNLSox
10-06-2005, 05:54 PM
Still playoff success always does translate to a few more dollars in the pocket of a franchise through:

-Increased merchandise sales
-Increased season tickets sales

If the White Sox continue their run into the ALCS and World Series, JR's pocketbook should have more to offer for the offseason, not to mention there will be players who want to come join in the fun for a discount.

Chicken Dinner
10-06-2005, 07:10 PM
Maybe we'll have a few bucks to resign PK.

JohnBasedowYoda
10-06-2005, 07:24 PM
if the mods are as tough as they were on other people there should be some vacations from this

antitwins13
10-06-2005, 08:23 PM
Hey isn't this an attendence thread? Move it to the Roadhouse!

Madvora
10-06-2005, 08:31 PM
You mean this team could actually get better?!

"But where would they play?"

sachin
10-06-2005, 08:46 PM
I am interested to learn the amount of revenues collected by the City of Chicago. For each game, there must be increase of revenue for food and alcohol at taverns, and the sales tax from parking and merchandise.

Would anyone know the amount of money the City of Chicago collects from each of the playoffs?

BeefyD
10-06-2005, 09:00 PM
Hell, I wish they would just pave the southern-most parking lot... :)

soxfan26
10-06-2005, 09:40 PM
I don't know what the team's gross margins are on these types of expenses, but between tickets, consessions, parking, merchandise, etc... I'm guessing this playoff run would probably result in a 15 million dollar boost in PROFITS that I would hope could be reinvested in this team over the next 2-3 years.

I think that would give us the flexibility to make a legit run at some expensive players through FA or trades to help improve the lineup in 2006...


I agree that it would be great to see these extra profits, if they do materialize, spent on improving the team. I analyzed the Atlanta Braves team payroll from 1990 through 2005 to see if we can learn anything.

My figures are from this database (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=16) provided by USA Today. I'm assuming that making it to the playoffs is the only factor affecting the team's payroll the next season. Like my ECON professor tells me "it doesn't matter if my assumptions are inherently wrong it only matters if the conclusions that I draw from it are useful."

EDIT: So I attached the table in a Word document, if you're interested...

So I would say those results are not very useful. Making the playoffs and how far a team makes it in the playoffs are not very strong indicators of an increase in payroll the next season.

In both seasons following the Marlins' World Series victories, payroll went down. The Diamondbacks payroll dropped by nearly 28% just one season after winning it all.

In short I'd say there are other significant factors that affect the team's payroll other than postseason play.

Randar68
10-06-2005, 09:55 PM
In both seasons following the Marlins' World Series victories, payroll went down. The Diamondbacks payroll dropped by nearly 28% just one season after winning it all.

Well, let's be frank here. Both of those teams were spending wildly beyond their means in order to get to that point, and drawing back was the only way to keep from going bankrupt. Arizona was taking loans well into the 10's of millions in order to keep meeting payroll! Florida was not much different, especially the first time around, mostly because their stadium deals fell through and that expected revenue dried up before their eyes...

soxfan26
10-06-2005, 10:07 PM
Well, let's be frank here. Both of those teams were spending wildly beyond their means in order to get to that point, and drawing back was the only way to keep from going bankrupt. Arizona was taking loans well into the 10's of millions in order to keep meeting payroll! Florida was not much different, especially the first time around, mostly because their stadium deals fell through and that expected revenue dried up before their eyes...

You'll get no argument from me on that, but could they have been spending wildly because they believed that the post season revenue would save them in the end?

Looking at a team like the Braves that have 15 consecutive years in the postseason and not seeing a substantial increase in payroll tells me that the post season revenue doesn't always get reinvested into the team.

Of course then it just boils down to the owner's overall business strategy, does he take the profits he makes and reinvest them in the team or use them to buy an arena football team or to pave the parking lot for BeefyD?

EDIT: fixed it

Daver
10-06-2005, 10:17 PM
Well, let's be frank here. Both of those teams were spending wildly beyond their means in order to get to that point, and drawing back was the only way to keep from going bankrupt. Arizona was taking loans well into the 10's of millions in order to keep meeting payroll!

They did not recoup that from playoff revenue, MLB takes a large chunk of that, especially when it comes to the World Series. Arizona benefitted from doubling their season ticket base as a result though, and Arizona was behind the eighball to start out with, their deal did not allow them to recieve shared revenue for the first five years of the franchise, the same for Tampa Bay. MLB paid for their disgressions ordered on them by the court by selling two franchises and hamstringing them to sink or swim, Jerry Coangelo met that challenge head on.

JackParkman
10-06-2005, 10:19 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but someone on one of the sports radio stations (don't recall which one) said the other day that the Sox would stand to make up to $22 million in additional revenue if every playoff series went the maximum number of games, i.e. 11 home games.

I don't attest to the accuracy of this statement, just passing it along for discussion's sake.

Johnny Mostil
10-06-2005, 10:22 PM
MLB divies up the ticket monet between the playoff clubs.

DS= all 8 teams, PLUS the two non-wild card 2nd place teams(a practise dating back to the "1st division" days)

CS = all 4 teams

WS = both teams

The money is usually taken from the first home game for each team. I think the rest goes to mlb inc.

Gene

These revenues also fund the players' postseason pool, don't they? How much are those shares now (e.g., for each player on the winning World Series team)?

getonbckthr
10-07-2005, 01:25 AM
i'm sure MR. BEERMAN get paid as well.:gulp:

maurice
10-07-2005, 10:12 AM
I haven't really seen this discussed, and to us fans it's generally a secondary thought, but anyone done a little math to see what kind of dough these playoffs bring in?

FWIW, Phil Rogers took a crack at the calculations today.

Ol' No. 2
10-07-2005, 10:19 AM
FWIW, Phil Rogers took a crack at the calculations today.The thing to remember is that post-season revenues cannot be automatically assumed for next year. So you can't sign someone to a 3-yr assuming post-season revenues. A far bigger effect is the increase in ticket sales for next year. I'm sure season ticket sales will get a big bump.

The philosophy they seem to have taken is to build success and payroll year by year. FWIW, I think that's the right way to go.

hawkjt
10-07-2005, 10:20 AM
In rodgers column it worked out to an additional 30-40 million if the sox play all possible additional games thru the world series. Should help with PK

voodoochile
10-07-2005, 10:30 AM
I haven't really seen this discussed, and to us fans it's generally a secondary thought, but anyone done a little math to see what kind of dough these playoffs bring in?

ALDS ticket-prices:
Lower Deck$55http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/trans.gifLower Deck Res.$40http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/trans.gifBleachers$40http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/trans.gifUpper Deck Box$40http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/images/trans.gifUpper Deck Res.$30

assuming even numbers of each type (I know there are not), average ticket price comes to about 40 dollars per ticket.

So far:
1) 2 home games with about 40,500 fans at average ticket price of approximately $40 = $3.24 million
2) I'll approximate parking as 6,250 cars per game @ $20 per car, that's another $250,000
3) Add consessions, which I'll estimate at $15 dollars per person @ 81,000 total fans = $1.215 million

Just these easy-to-figure numbers seem to indicate approximately 4.7 million in direct revenues through just 2 games (remember that revenues do not equate directly to profits). As I think I've underestimated a little, we'll just call it 5 million in revenues.

This is, of course, not factoring in the HUGE increase in merchandise profits and sales which have gone through the roof.


Now, factor in a possible ALCS visit, and assuming just 2 home games totalling 81,000 fans at the increased average ticket cost of ~$78, + $15 consessions and parking, and the ALCS visit guarantees you about $7.75 million in additional revenue!

Again, I think I'm probably underestimating things here and also not including anything like all the private suites, terrace suites, stadium club, bullpen sports bar, patio area, etc etc etc.

I think hosting just 4 home games (2 ALDS and 2 ALCS) would net approximately 15 million in additional revenue.

I don't know what the team's gross margins are on these types of expenses, but between tickets, consessions, parking, merchandise, etc... I'm guessing this playoff run would probably result in a 15 million dollar boost in PROFITS that I would hope could be reinvested in this team over the next 2-3 years.

I think that would give us the flexibility to make a legit run at some expensive players through FA or trades to help improve the lineup in 2006...

:bandance:

Well, labor isn't going to be that much extra, you are only talking the marginal cost of the stadium workers, not extra player money, so that shouldn't be more than another 200K or so - they ain't paying those people much, but there are a lot of them - that number is based on 1000 people making $100/day. That number is definitely an outside estimate as most of them will make WAY less than $100 in the 5 hours they work and I don't think it takes 1000 people to run Soxpark for a ball game. In reality that number might be as low as $50K.

Then food/beer cost won't be above 20% (and probably closer to 10% given ballpark food prices), so most of that is profit.

Parking is almost ALL profit since 20 guys working various entranceways can collect all of the money in question.

In short, except for whatever they kick to MLB and the opposing team (which should balance with what they receive back in Boston - I assume road teams get a split like in other sports) most of this money will drop straight to the bottom line.

Oh, I forgot, they have to pay rent this year...:D:

I think your concessions estimate is low too. Remember, people spend more money at playoff games than they do during the regular season and they buy a lot more clothing, etc. at the game.

Either way, it's a fat windfall that will go nicely toward next year's payroll and should afford the owners a nice payout too boot...

voodoochile
10-07-2005, 10:31 AM
if the mods are as tough as they were on other people there should be some vacations from this

This isn't an attendance thread, it's a revenue thread.

Talking about attendance during the playoffs is moot. The games are ALL sell outs...

Ol' No. 2
10-07-2005, 10:34 AM
This isn't an attendance thread, it's a revenue thread.

Talking about attendance during the playoffs is moot. The games are ALL sell outs...Actually, this is the only time of year when attendance IS something to brag about.:cool:

voodoochile
10-07-2005, 10:35 AM
I am interested to learn the amount of revenues collected by the City of Chicago. For each game, there must be increase of revenue for food and alcohol at taverns, and the sales tax from parking and merchandise.

Would anyone know the amount of money the City of Chicago collects from each of the playoffs?

Well, the state gets a few extra days rent on the stadium, but in general, the money doesn't matter to the city as much as people think it does. Economists have done studies and if people don't spend their entertainment budget on Sox playoff baseball, they will simply spend it elsewhere for the most part. Yes there is an increase as a few diehards will go into debt to make sure they see these games and thus spend extra money, for the most part, big local sports events (and like it or not these games are mostly a local phenommenon - unlike the Super Bowl) the increase in taxes collected is negligible over the long haul. People will just go to less movies in November or spend a little less at Xmas.

wdelaney72
10-07-2005, 10:46 AM
I think we call can agree, payroll WILL increase. The amount I'm sure will be debated considerably. The question is, what to do with the $$.

Paul Konerko - His performance towards the end of the season did nothing but drive up his market value. It appears that Boston and Anaheim are in need of upgrades at 1B. Kenny and the White Sox are of the practice of contract extensions BEFORE the contract expires. If Kenny was going to bring Paulie back, he would have done it a long time ago. The only exception to this would be a World Series win. If we win the World Series, Kenny and JR will not want to take the PR hit of not bringing back a key component of a championship team. This isn't about whether or not I want Paulie re-signed, it's just my take on how the organization is financially looking at Paulie's value.

I'm not sure which other players are available in free agency, but our starting rotation appears to be in good shape for next year. Garland will get a raise, but he won't break the bank. Our bullpen will need some reinforcement, especially of the left handed kind. Cotts has been great, but he could use some help. Damaso Marte... your plane is boarding. I'd also be up for an upgrade in CF, but I don't see the need to trade him to get rid of him. Rowand is serviceable in CF. Decent defense (including a great arm) and a decent hitter. Another consideration, is AJ. I want him back. He's a big reason for he success of our pitching staff.

We do not a DH insurance policy for Big Frank's health. I'd like a bit more than what Carl Everett can offer.

maurice
10-07-2005, 10:53 AM
The thing to remember is that post-season revenues cannot be automatically assumed for next year. So you can't sign someone to a 3-yr assuming post-season revenues.

You can if you potentially have offsetting free agents and trades the following year if the team misses the playoffs. Unfortunately, JR has shown that he has no problem slashing payroll and rebuilding rather than reloading.

Randar68
10-07-2005, 11:04 AM
The thing to remember is that post-season revenues cannot be automatically assumed for next year. So you can't sign someone to a 3-yr assuming post-season revenues. A far bigger effect is the increase in ticket sales for next year. I'm sure season ticket sales will get a big bump.

The philosophy they seem to have taken is to build success and payroll year by year. FWIW, I think that's the right way to go.

No, no, no... obviously they will not go 1-for-1 to next year's payroll, but theoretically it could if the Sox had hefty 2006 contracts expiring and could sign long-term deals with other guys while absorbing that bubble of player salary due to the monies from the playoffs.

It likely would have more of an effect on flexibility to take on undesirable contracts or spread that money out over 3-4 years on contract extensions or new FA's...

maurice
10-07-2005, 11:12 AM
It likely would have more of an effect on flexibility to take on undesirable contracts

Which is gonna be a HUGE issue this offseason, IMO. KW's gonna be looking for the best bat available, and he obviously can't limit himself to the crappy FA pool.

Randar68
10-07-2005, 11:16 AM
Which is gonna be a HUGE issue this offseason, IMO. KW's gonna be looking for the best bat available, and he obviously can't limit himself to the crappy FA pool.

Furcal is out there... :-)

Trades are going to be the best bet, and he's going to have to be financially flexible if he doesn't want to give up Young, BMac, Anderson, etc...

Tekijawa
10-07-2005, 11:18 AM
HOW COME RODGERS DIDN'T MENTION HOW MUCH MORE THE WHITE SOX WOULD BE MAKING IF THEY OWNED THEIR OWN TICKET BROKER?

Just a minor observation?

voodoochile
10-07-2005, 11:19 AM
Furcal is out there... :-)

Trades are going to be the best bet, and he's going to have to be financially flexible if he doesn't want to give up Young, BMac, Anderson, etc...

I am more looking for an opinion from some of you guys who are better at stat analysis and scouting info.

Would a package that started with Rowand and Hernandez be attractive enough to another team to consider giving up a big talent?

Tekijawa
10-07-2005, 11:22 AM
Would a package that started with Rowand and Hernandez be attractive enough to another team to consider giving up a big talent?

No, there aren't a lot of teams looking for a Gold Glove caliber CF and starting pitching.

Randar68
10-07-2005, 11:22 AM
I am more looking for an opinion from some of you guys who are better at stat analysis and scouting info.

Would a package that started with Rowand and Hernandez be attractive enough to another team to consider giving up a big talent?

Depends on contracts... By "Big Talent" do you mean Manny?

I think El Duque could be a decent bargaining chip if the Sox were taking on a long-term contract that is hefty. It would provide the Sox with short-term salary relief yet long-term relief to the other team.

Rowand? He may have value, but is it what it was last year at this time? Rowand+El Duque for Delgado? Maybe if we take all the Delgado money?

We have to remember that in today's market, money and payroll flexibility are more important than the caliber of player acquired in return...

voodoochile
10-07-2005, 11:26 AM
No, there aren't a lot of teams looking for a Gold Glove caliber CF and starting pitching.

Well, Rowand has clearly regressed to the norm this year offensively and El Duque is aging and has shown signs of not being as effective long term.

Certainly if the Sox aquire a genuine big bat for LF, they can afford to move Pods to CF and let Rowand walk. With the emergence of BMac, El Duque becomes expendable with little downgrade in the pitching staff and maybe an actual upgrade if late season performances from BMac are any indication of future success.

If they truly are as valuable as I think they are, it would be a great way to start trade negotiations for say a Manny or other big time bat to play either LF or DH. Then you sign PK back and the offense is basically back to where it was when Frank was healthy and looks like a pennant contender again next year. If Frank comes back too, they would probably be WS favorites entering the season.

voodoochile
10-07-2005, 11:28 AM
Depends on contracts... By "Big Talent" do you mean Manny?

I think El Duque could be a decent bargaining chip if the Sox were taking on a long-term contract that is hefty. It would provide the Sox with short-term salary relief yet long-term relief to the other team.

Rowand? He may have value, but is it what it was last year at this time? Rowand+El Duque for Delgado? Maybe if we take all the Delgado money?

We have to remember that in today's market, money and payroll flexibility are more important than the caliber of player acquired in return...

Delgado is another name, but yes, I was referring to Manny specifically as he is the biggest bat out there that would be available - Blow Sox might be looking for more pitching and the Sox could point to Rowands (outlier) 2004 season and try to drive up his value.

Randar68
10-07-2005, 11:30 AM
Certainly if the Sox aquire a genuine big bat for LF, they can afford to move Pods to CF

:cower:

I'd rather DH Pods or whoever they acquire than watch Scotty butcher CF...

bigdommer
10-07-2005, 11:32 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-051006rogers,1,237092.column?coll=cs-home-headlines


Not sure if this has been posted, but...

$2 mill from ALDS
$4 mill from ALCS
$5 mill from WS

$8.5-10 mill from ALCS related revenue
$15-17 mill from WS related revenue

This is in Phil Rogers' column talking about the impending FA of Konerko and other commitments. $52 mill of $76 mill payroll committed (including Frank's buyout) to 12 guys, not counting AJ, JonG, Crede and Viz (arb eligible) and Politte and Everett (team options). I doubt we pick up Carl's option (Frank either re-signs or BA and Dye split DH duties) and I am sure we will try to package Viz in a trade. AJ, JG, Crede and Politte will cost about $10 mill, leaving about $14 mill to fill our DH and 1B slots. If we re-sign Frank (6 per? incentive based) and Paulie (11 per), we could return the same team for under $80 mill. If KW can creative and spin off El Duque and Viz, that could save us $5 mill.

Paulwny
10-07-2005, 11:35 AM
Delgado is another name, but yes, I was referring to Manny specifically as he is the biggest bat out there that would be available - Blow Sox might be looking for more pitching and the Sox could point to Rowands (outlier) 2004 season and try to drive up his value.

I doubt El Duque has much trade value. Wasn't he released and the sox one of a few who offered him a contract? His age is showing.

Flight #24
10-07-2005, 11:36 AM
Depends on contracts... By "Big Talent" do you mean Manny?

I think El Duque could be a decent bargaining chip if the Sox were taking on a long-term contract that is hefty. It would provide the Sox with short-term salary relief yet long-term relief to the other team.

Rowand? He may have value, but is it what it was last year at this time? Rowand+El Duque for Delgado? Maybe if we take all the Delgado money?

We have to remember that in today's market, money and payroll flexibility are more important than the caliber of player acquired in return...

Here's the plan, assuming a $15mil increase in payroll.

Give Paulie $12mil/yr - net increase of $3M
Give Garland a $6-7-8 3-yr deal - net '06 increase of $2.5M
Give AJ $5mil - net '06 increase of $2.5M
Net raises to others under contract totals approx $10mil
Sum of pay increases: $18mil

Trade Duque for whatever you can get for him - Save $4.5M
Decline the option on Carl - Save $4.5M
Exercise Frank's buyout (more on that late) - Save $4.5M
Replace Timo with Anderson - Save $1M
Replace Shingo with Jenks - Save $2.5M
Sum of savings: $17mil

Total money "to play with": $14mil (17 savings - 18payraises + 15 payroll bump)

That will get you Delgado. That will get you Helton. And that will enable you to trade Rowand+Marte+mid-level prospects for Manny (Rowand+Marte+savings=$17.25M, Manny=$19M).

Or better yet, just claim Manny off of waivers, then trade Rowand+Marte for prospects.

Then use JR's "Frank exception" to bring the big guy back at $1-2mil+lots of incentives.

Pods(DH)-Iguchi(2B)-Konerko(1B)-Manny(LF)-Dye(RF)-AJ(C)-Crede(3B)-Uribe(SS)-Anderson(CF), with a rotation of Contreras-Buehrle-Garland-Garcia-McCarthy and a pen of Jenks-Hermanson-Cotts-Politte-Vizcaino-Bajenaru/Adkins. If/when Frank's healthy, slot him in at DH and sit one of Pods or Anderson.

ewokpelts
10-07-2005, 11:42 AM
Again, the playoff revenues wont be used for next year's payroll. Payroll is determined by FORCASTING ticket sales. If the sox go deep(alcs or ws) season tickets will probably account for 20k a night(currently at 10-12 a night), thus averaging 1.62 million fans BEFORE tickets go on sale to the public. If they can forecast sales of over 2 million fans, your payroll will be erqual or greater than this years.
The playoff money is a bonus to any season revenue. It'll most likely go to debt service or building improvements(I'm told they really arent done yet renovating).
Gene

bigdommer
10-07-2005, 11:46 AM
I doubt El Duque has much trade value. Wasn't he released and the sox one of a few who offered him a contract? His age is showing.

This is my biggest fear. Unless we trade him, we can't get BMac in the rotation. And I don't know how many people want him. Here are my thoughts:

Scenario 1: Trade Garland. This is really risky, but JG is going to make $6-7 mill at arbitration. Maybe we can package him and others to a pitching starved team like Colorado or Texas for a Helton or Texiera. JG had a poor second half, and I don't want to sound like ESPN, but a lot of his quality starts came against the likes of KC, Minny, Det, Sea and I don't know if we pay him #2 starter money as a #4.

Scenario 2: Either El Duque has a postseason moment, and we can trade him in the offseason, or we start him on the DL next year, give him some starts in June, hope he dominates, and put him on the block.

bigdommer
10-07-2005, 11:50 AM
Again, the playoff revenues wont be used for next year's payroll. Payroll is determined by FORCASTING ticket sales. If the sox go deep(alcs or ws) season tickets will probably account for 20k a night(currently at 10-12 a night), thus averaging 1.62 million fans BEFORE tickets go on sale to the public. If they can forecast sales of over 2 million fans, your payroll will be erqual or greater than this years.
The playoff money is a bonus to any season revenue. It'll most likely go to debt service or building improvements(I'm told they really arent done yet renovating).
Gene

Does that money go towards win shares from this year?

Obviously $20 mill in playoff revenue wouldn't mean an equivalent increase in payroll, but it could be used for buyouts or incentive pay (Big Hurt money), right?

voodoochile
10-07-2005, 12:24 PM
This is my biggest fear. Unless we trade him, we can't get BMac in the rotation. And I don't know how many people want him. Here are my thoughts:

Scenario 1: Trade Garland. This is really risky, but JG is going to make $6-7 mill at arbitration. Maybe we can package him and others to a pitching starved team like Colorado or Texas for a Helton or Texiera. JG had a poor second half, and I don't want to sound like ESPN, but a lot of his quality starts came against the likes of KC, Minny, Det, Sea and I don't know if we pay him #2 starter money as a #4.

Scenario 2: Either El Duque has a postseason moment, and we can trade him in the offseason, or we start him on the DL next year, give him some starts in June, hope he dominates, and put him on the block.

You don't trade the guy who came the closest to a Cy Young caliber season this year and still has a year left of arbitration, period. At worst, you let it go to arbitration, pay the one year deal and make another run at the playoffs, if everything goes bust at the deadline, you can always trade him then and probably get MORE for him and not lose anything as you can make a run at him in FA during the off season.

So long as Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland and one of BMac/Hernandez is back, this team is a playoff caliber squad. For the first time in forever the Sox have 6 quality starting pitchers who are already their property going into the offseason. If you trade any of them, it has to be the guy with the least upside and that is El Duque.

Fenway
10-07-2005, 12:38 PM
The way it works

MLB RENTS the ballpark from the team ( or owner of stadium )

club only keeps concession and luxury box revenue, everything else goes to MLB

That is why Bud's name is on the ticket, not JR's

I can remember Haywood Sullivan complaing in 1988, "making the playoffs costs us money, it is better to finish second"

hawkjt
10-07-2005, 02:02 PM
Well,fenway either it has changed or Phil Rodgers had it all wrong in the trib today. He indicated the club gets 6-8 million additional from tickets then also parking and concessions. Totaling 15-17 million in additional revenue with max games thru ws.

I cannot imagine losing money in this scenario. Of course the real payoff will be in new season ticket holders next year and beyond. Sox need to come thru for the future of the franchise in addition to the mental and emotional well-being of all of us dedicated hardcores. But remember; enjoy the journey.

Hitmen77
10-07-2005, 08:13 PM
I doubt El Duque has much trade value. Wasn't he released and the sox one of a few who offered him a contract? His age is showing.

He looked pretty valuable tonight! :supernana: