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View Full Version : Who came first: The WHITE SOX or the Red Sox?***


BackInBlack
10-04-2005, 08:13 PM
And while you're at it, which came first -- the chicken or the egg? TIA.

FielderJones
10-04-2005, 08:24 PM
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/yearly/yr1901a.shtml
As you can see, in the first year of the American League it was the Chicago White Stockings and the Boston Americans.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/yearly/yr1904a.shtml
In 1904, Chicago changed the team name to White Sox. Boston retained the nickname Americans.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/yearly/yr1908a.shtml
It was not until 1908 that the Boston organization changed the team nickname to Red Sox.

BackInBlack
10-04-2005, 08:35 PM
Thank GOD!

THANK YOU kindly for your timely response, FJ.

Ventura Fan 23
10-04-2005, 08:47 PM
Yeah, it's pretty much a known fact that they ripped off our name.

BackInBlack
10-04-2005, 08:53 PM
Yeah, it's pretty much a known fact that they ripped off our name.

Interesting. Is there a story that follows?


Additionally, WERE THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL'S FIRST "SOX/STOCKINGS" TEAM? TIA.

whtsx1959
10-04-2005, 09:15 PM
I know for a fact that Stockings was changed to Sox so it could fit better in a newspaper headline.

itsnotrequired
10-04-2005, 09:20 PM
Interesting. Is there a story that follows?


Additionally, WERE THE CHICAGO WHITE SOX MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL'S FIRST "SOX/STOCKINGS" TEAM? TIA.

First all "professional" team was the Cincinnati Red Stockings way back in 1869. Harry Wright moved the team to Boston in 1871 and became...the Boston Red Stockings. This was way back in the National Association days and is affiliated with the "modern" Red Sox in name only.

ode to veeck
10-04-2005, 09:22 PM
It could be noted that the current Cincinnati franchise was known as the Red Stockings, from 1882-1889 before becoming simply the Reds in 1890 (though they were temporarily the Redlegs from 1954-1959)

The franchise that later became the Chicago Cubs was known as the Chicago White Stockings from 1871-1875 in the National Association, and from 1876-1889 in the National League, before becoming temporarily the Colts, then the Orphans, before settling on the Cubs in 1903

There was also a St. Louis Brown Stockings from 1876-1877 in the National Association, then the NL (from 1876). Then they became the Browns, then the Perfectos, then finally the Cardinals in 1901.

There was a Boston Red Stockings from 1871-1875 in the National Association, including one single year, 1875, where there was also a team from St. Louis by the same name. Upon formation of the NL in 1876, the Boston Red Stockings became the Boston Red Caps, then the Beaneaters, the Doves, the Rustlers, and the Bees, before settling on the Braves name in 1912. They later moved on to Milwaukee and then again later to Atlanta. (This was also baseball's first noted salary team, as noted above from 1869, from its origins in Cincinatti)

There was a Toledo Blue Stockings in the American Association in 1884.

I'm not sure when the official names of teams like the White Stockings got shortened to White Sox or Red Sox.

Buddy_Bradford
10-04-2005, 09:50 PM
Charles Comiskey moved the St. Paul Saints of the Western League to Chicago prior to the 1900 season- after an agreement with James Hart, owner of the Chicago NL team, Comiskey agreed not to use "Chicago" as the team name. However, they were not restricted to use the "White Stockings" name, which the 1800's version of the Cubs were most commonly called. So the Sox were called the "White Stockings" and, later in 1901 when the Western League declared itself a major league (and changed the name to the American League), the "Chicago White Stockings". The shortened version of "Sox" was attributed to Chicago Tribune writers Cy Sanborn and Earl Green, which became the generally adopted team name by about 1902-1903.

ode to veeck
10-04-2005, 09:50 PM
Although the Black baseball leagues (also known as the Negro leagues) did not start until 1920, there were traveling professional black teams as early as the 1880s, including the New York Cubans and the St Louis Black Stockings.

In the league years, 1920 until 1960, where various permutations of a number of black profssional baseball leagues existed, there were a number of Sox teams, including the Baltimore Black Sox, the Cleveland, Memphis, and Havana Red Sox, and the Montgomery Grey Sox.

An interesting fact of history is the use of old Comiskey Park for many league games, and championship series, including the black all-star game known as the East-West game that played from 1933 to crowds annually in the range of 20-50,000.

SouthSide_HitMen
10-04-2005, 10:39 PM
Charles Comiskey moved the St. Paul Saints of the Western League to Chicago prior to the 1900 season- after an agreement with James Hart, owner of the Chicago NL team, Comiskey agreed not to use "Chicago" as the team name.

Question - I love reading and learning about the history of the game. If you or anyone else have any information as to why Charles Comiskey had to seek an agreement or give concessions to the cubs before moving here it would be appreciated. They were in a different league so I don't understand what say the cubs (or the Orphans as they were known then) had in the matter unless the White Sox were moving into a park the cubs owned or controlled.

And Buddy Bradford :welcome: to the board. Great info and hope to here from you down the road.

ode to veeck
10-04-2005, 11:19 PM
They (the Western League) were part of a larger agreement dominated by the National League (I think it was called the National Agreement at the time). When the agreement expired, the declined to sign a new one, declared themsleves a 'major league', aka the American League, and began raiding prospects and players.

The St Paul Saints were previously (& originally) the Sioux City Cornhuskers. Charles Comiskey's retirement to ownership (from the Reds at the time) was to become a cornerstone of the Western League and later the Amreican League